The Russell Moore Show

What do Andy Warhol, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, Flannery O’Connor, and Bono all have in common? According to writer and cultural historian Paul Elie, they’re “cryptoreligious.” Their art isn’t about affirming doctrine—it’s about invoking mystery, longing, and spiritual disquiet. In a culture where religious belief is often either rigidly defined or entirely dismissed, these artists dwell in the in between. They don’t preach—but they provoke. Their work invites us into important questions, questions to which the artists themselves often don’t have answers.   This week, Russell Moore talks with Paul Elie, author of The Life You Save May Be Your Own: An American Pilgrimage—Russell’s favorite biography—and the new book The Last Supper: Art, Faith, Sex, and Controversy in the 1980s. Together they explore how religion haunts the work of artists like Dylan (especially his “Christian era”), Cohen (“Hallelujah”), singer Sinéad O’Connor (her unforgettable Saturday Night Live moment), and even Andy Warhol’s more-than-15 minutes of fame.   If you’ve ever felt as if a song lyric or a painting was almost a prayer—or wondered why some of our greatest artists can’t seem to stop brushing up against the divine—this conversation is for you. Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include: * The Last Supper: Art, Faith, Sex, and Controversy in the 1980s [https://www.amazon.com/Last-Supper-Faith-Controversy-1980s/dp/0374272921/tag=christtoday-20] by Paul Elie * The Life You Save May Be Your Own: An American Pilgrimage [https://www.amazon.com/Life-You-Save-May-Your/dp/0374529213/tag=christtoday-20] by Paul Elie Special offer for listeners of The Russell Moore Show: Click here [https://www.christianitytoday.com/membership/offer/?utm_content=russell-moore&utm_source=megaphone&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=russell-moore-show] for 25% off a subscription to CT magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Former governor John Kasich has been a lot of things: US presidential candidate, governor, political commentator, congressman. And throughout his career, he witnessed faith communities of all religions come together and support not only each other but also their communities at-large. His new book, Heaven Help Us, reflects his observation of this dynamic and the ways faith communities are uniquely positioned to effect change in a broken society. The former governor also shares his takes on health care reform, how losing his parents in a car accident brought him to faith, how he fared after losing the presidential candidacy, and how to quench the fear of impending political chaos.  If you find yourself looking around your community or your country or the world and you think, What can one person, church, or community do to change something so overwhelming?, this conversation is for you. Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include: * Heaven Help Us: How Faith Communities Inspire Hope, Strengthen Neighborhoods, and Build the Future [https://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Help-Communities-Strengthen-Neighborhoods/dp/0310368820/tag=christtoday-20] by John Kasich Special offer for listeners of The Russell Moore Show: Click here [https://www.christianitytoday.com/membership/offer/?utm_content=russell-moore&utm_source=megaphone&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=russell-moore-show] for 25% off a subscription to CT magazine. “The Russell Moore Show” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Clarissa Moll Host: Russell Moore Producer: Leslie Thompson Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill Senior Producer: Matt Stevens Audio engineering by Kevin Morris Video producer: Sam Cedar Theme Song: “Citizens” by Jon Guerra Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

American evangelical Christians ought to care about the dismantling of PEPFAR. Russell reads a piece from his newsletter every Monday on the podcast but there’s more to be found in the weekly email! Sign up ⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.russellmoore.com/subscribe/]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

What does a Shire full of hobbits in Middle-Earth, a county full of farmers in Kentucky, and a wardrobe full of a lion have in common? For Russell Moore and singer/songwriter/author Andrew Peterson, they were all a way to find home.    In this episode—recorded inside Peterson’s book-lined Chapter House in Nashville, right down the road from Moore—the two talk about the authors who, by God’s grace, helped hold their faith together when it could have come apart. From the wisdom of Wendell Berry to the imagination of C.S. Lewis to the honesty of Frederick Buechner, these authors gave a clarity that helped these two keep the faith.    This isn’t just a literary conversation. It’s about how God uses stories, sentences, and sometimes even sword-wielding mice to reach people in moments of doubt, disillusionment, or despair. Along the way, they talk about what it means to read widely, to hold onto wonder, and to be the kind of Christian who can still be surprised by joy.   They also somehow end up talking about Moby Dick, Dungeons & Dragons, and how ChatGPT was wrong and right about what books each of them would take to a desert island.    Books and authors mentioned in this episode include: * Jayber Crow [https://www.amazon.com/Jayber-Crow-Wendell-Berry/dp/1582431604/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2IS1X0NQPSG64&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.i6GNy0VmWFkOSefJsfT44NzuyEfTpy05RtWg-0cZf2-6ColWqjY8OGPr4rZOt540C4590mwv1iKmIJOIbFbpTf7vwL5_kfEL6W_f0CL5dM6Rat0CaBF8g0mUqYg4eie7uCJtuJzJ93du__JX9UvyL2FurdVlobsDge4yM1vHve_hTaR10c7doWv8JfqT5RZV_2-ZscMW1MQFkEZC-01HaghgWM9VK8ru2zw8VwxzZRA.5cFYJEm06YR4tdNjh4idNMGYWVeHOI0yc7kYAXzuEb4&dib_tag=se&keywords=jayber+crow&qid=1748965763&sprefix=jayber+cro%2Caps%2C155&sr=8-1/tag=christtoday-20] by Wendell Berry * A Room Called Remember [https://www.amazon.com/Room-Called-Remember-Uncollected-Pieces/dp/0060611855/ref=sr_1_1?crid=7PKYW18UIOFA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.vBJXbgFAyDaoRMEGN_OqZyJDwSPKF6qt4srabWOzGHPGjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.mDWAR1vVlUde-TbRN7q4aRsSnk31UZhBfxiayKEo-P8&dib_tag=se&keywords=a+room+called+remember+frederick+buechner&qid=1748965842&sprefix=a+room+called+re%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-1/tag=christtoday-20] and Telling Secrets [https://www.amazon.com/Telling-Secrets-Frederick-Buechner/dp/0060609362/ref=sr_1_1?crid=8A577DDCFTX9&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.aw8VZ8zyzZHin6T2tYZU3LtehIKOOfPBlaBYWBuWPv8IQF38DwiVCPY2cqvMbCDo9hBgJxIJMH7Uwq7B9_3F9TRx1cdI4m0OqocVBhTgW2vTBitBLSrAYZv4iKKPoU_WoRdoRNm8aFRs2Sr5z6xI07dOXx0ViG1_s0P3JDOsLTfOk1bz5F3D_R06a3Vq5jdgdyhBiqfalDIIigegUZfkvqRaXkavke1-n40-qC42Jko.ysKh4Vp6ehp0SS0zs_3qPCI7rgcz6t6dXXuWEa4BaCg&dib_tag=se&keywords=telling+secrets+by+frederick+buechner&qid=1748965823&sprefix=telling+secret%2Caps%2C147&sr=8-1/tag=christtoday-20] by Frederick Buechner * The Chronicles of Narnia, [https://www.amazon.com/Chronicles-Narnia-Box-Set-Full-Color/dp/0064409392/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=S4RVC1RP62RX&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.DSnmM1h4TTRvAzkdvM_NI512Porcxj-bHLAZzzsa_17jIsoXL_ChIJjDIR7vJdVsI8L5LLfuvQKXow8SHNtCXNFeseBBV0olL0MBfRH342vX_qVm_LqHXCCo0aJUezKiHYo0-BhOzJXG8EmDhIscj7o5s3j78BaJ9ZE-qczMZySfrIY1nkY8GqFdafUwBCc55HiE6ZwiqPXfMLVhdWlowA--WYcpyWP5HdMyzelENMOMSVIZMDCj-ZTtvrmhjg62N4cT6Y8N0H0_WTDafmdt-vRUX2ndTcFw8qL0yT_wrEY.pp5oWIgQrJblsPmqmTJw1-wT985u1roopw4wfnwkUtQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=chronicles+of+narnia&qid=1748965860&sprefix=chronicles%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1/tag=christtoday-20] Till We Have Faces, [https://www.amazon.com/Till-We-Have-Faces-Retold/dp/0062565419/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3QACUAT5MPJGR&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.iIas0pN22KxuovkvTfEqiabKI_a6ju03ltTDg2vvQUjGO6yTIPWVA2g9VsY6dcevEl8j6-OIQ1pxfDPcTecnMV1TiVOF_HL6x315V4vZzjay0TCaGWPj1Gf2cOiXY9Ia6La2vHOe8NInyRKqGL-vtV1KjF-3opFRvb-MEPuStXybpwuweUoZTN2ExuCLCMW4bvE4jrQrqDFs69SHGMY3EJlCwWbnz0fJt23Kggm3RFo.h58fXta6zYGju39VgnRzLVgGknDvHmBXsQBiOMxcia4&dib_tag=se&keywords=till+we+have+faces+cs+lewis&qid=1748965878&sprefix=till+we+hav%2Caps%2C171&sr=8-1/tag=christtoday-20] Mere Christianity [https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926/ref=sr_1_1?crid=8IS4OK9ZS18S&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.tD6cVhQHMLCQgbaaX5DrFrQMNvgI64txDAT6hgi1uXVsX1DaDSmhb8iil0BORg6c58_tZQxZ4o4RRsQLUannWrndHtJESnkncJuWp7vqBb5TKYbKvtrH2HelgxloKwU6S5fCymMriPmAHCLVYfF5YFZw0QZOofUKs7zveyQx3XYptkbUf6WrCHyFsGbAxLNIPUB9QZmLsWfN6HmKXAx2l_jdml9PGqgWJeUqG9m146A.g2ensfOkZrU7_dsAGo3T1GzLo1hdQ9eecywiMAIlPLo&dib_tag=se&keywords=mere+christianity&qid=1748965916&sprefix=mere+christ%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-1/tag=christtoday-20], and more by C.S. Lewis * Godric [https://www.amazon.com/Godric-Novel-Frederick-Buechner/dp/0060611626/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3LNYFPMWFPGV7&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.21VcfKq6vL1yZZTBXNbj8t9i9__H2i5gDjMp4ust99gHQ28flqm1_vnK-znfJg9UbJ5WkTEeVZYVpWERqyyc9ZrEElZ9nwEPCgc4Gg1jk2fRwxjwQfKfsJDyrwIkb6gsirRG_6f8hq3UM9haXMMmDgpgGa2NH6PliA4PJiHmjAa-vcMWCQennlWqdInTP8gBu2T05GUD0i7_TV8biW6wk191LqZDRKw5yj0W7Wpi4ZM.zAci9hwe2NXd0tytKal_bt7M6d1zq4TRcRn5SsVWhI8&dib_tag=se&keywords=godric+by+frederick+buechner&qid=1748965934&sprefix=godric%2Caps%2C147&sr=8-1/tag=christtoday-20] by Frederick Buechner * David Copperfield [https://www.amazon.com/David-Copperfield-Charles-Dickens/dp/8175994282/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2F5JENMLLSXMY&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.oif0OO1zrlmpuPuQWjX-aH-tMSggEu_NqzcL7N0T376KuZfT1nOwa32FTldpzlBWtbRCCc6IdW1NbgUdASX9_fJZkKhqbENn0k9Y3YON1XC4H4qTpL7wDI4GnvsE2RP4CsBTXyAmILKhSU88y-o2gUQNKY_J0Mmr5jIgDQGSQpjKk-ExDvsuz5ghCSHDMY_7SvybYJdSZz5ZF5Zv5tBBNCzz6BnXsXrIX2I_u5Bfz0lSq3t38cduhZ2AjNA-TZZ5Vl1ZSv5e6zwm1xBOKMiO1aARr-GYqX7Rr8TUTJg-epA.ZCS6EfGPzg8rSdsJ1eh7gVADg6uiz4kjLAE5h7USVvE&dib_tag=se&keywords=david+copperfield+charles+dickens&qid=1748965955&sprefix=david+coopper%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1/tag=christtoday-20] by Charles Dickens * Four Quartets [https://www.amazon.com/Four-Quartets-T-S-Eliot/dp/0156332256/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2VQSH1AAOZJKE&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.MPA7BcnH90HHwEq_yYOhWDk-IaOLSkv53THNL6YSB-GPlKTs-s03W9iinu3vNXN8G2Sx1EUAJqSknPR_VytXJgy19ro9Whagdu7F9GT0awxu0w8jXeLC5_l7Yu5PB-ERmUNLMINxoad6NUjF-ZJWzOipKIq6SpQRwl2Mo8ZBJDDgicWH1C4fmC4cbnB4RdcsdR7Qhyljm8Bvp-2o8dDFvBrlnMj__XWV-kI3EUWtrSI.MRLiYrUKD6DyK4tFy-xEyiXofs6Xep1gu4MTJfmk4a0&dib_tag=se&keywords=four+quartets&qid=1748965980&sprefix=four+quartet%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-1/tag=christtoday-20]by T.S. Eliot * Orthodoxy [https://www.amazon.com/Orthodoxy-G-K-Chesterton/dp/1087200334/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=38P6WAKEY8D9B&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.3sEJVhwFI3u7emZy8e8oGdEw_pQqeZCecRPRApQTmo0xNXVQvNtfsqNg-_YXiiM72cN5TbfrrLzrYoiEf2V7X0T7cl8DfF8pytWvtKGsk9_o8RhCt57CQMW2Z04m2t8VcwsIC38sqbktOGZ3dDvZAS58qcx5YA3KhMh2bmtaegcaSDXy2OGZpuSPB40UOajsfpCx1gigLWY_rk1GxNGWxadP1M83rJyc3_fb5NFsvTQ1LUYVwuNymV2dt3_8wWRuI9nnurP90bjW7OUiVa6tsRM6Yi2tp6rvPKrfAoxWPV4.TcFV78-51sMUGhUD-eJ9f2ff6lw8c7TIO0QeS9EevFo&dib_tag=se&keywords=orthodoxy&qid=1748965999&sprefix=orthodox%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1/tag=christtoday-20] by G.K. Chesterton * The Yearling [https://www.amazon.com/Yearling-Aladdin-Classics-Marjorie-Rawlings/dp/0689846231/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3FSNUA7DVLTU9&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.v1onqRxTIWos-0N9R7KPshKhJHDvXthhryfO56OAtcDNKLhbUGg8uQRPoFsSpvw0eUxXgs65w7upZnDZZ_0j-Vu3ERBpx9bBuKfUNd47A9gDaSg3u9zeqiZ7miOAO38KwNGL965-hrm2Q0HbKIiwTRhk4oImYIXmA4c6My-lPfjI9k1p3EffMPxvVGAs24ltTDRySDa25X_qJFpLZcVv9cIgt89zh-1UFPZtM7L1D-Y.h3PsRM95t0c7A9_7ut5PtpkOTWkU55gyxjyQYt1zQ-Q&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+yearling&qid=1748966014&sprefix=the+yearli%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-2/tag=christtoday-20] by Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings * A Long Obedience in the Same Direction [https://www.amazon.com/Long-Obedience-Same-Direction-Discipleship/dp/1514011204/ref=sr_1_1?crid=N0IXLOQUUNCI&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.FNW4lNbCf_vViN1zCFl9wYQDzJ9Lc0gNQhKgBc1gGXwPW-4HaawSkQBs8rc9BR4qeguIPvlGTvwQeZUsoObFK6gm_rm7LljHBptRkXPkVwTIAWjIOAQhEfUEOHvYbVU9qgp6XBtdlzDWxLmFDY-53P7xYMN9fnPLC1FBNuGiPRQz5CLt5dyKT3ZNGBsCs86lDBW6kdDLk9pwTmGZGo8bbAVDjYMXMUNGfQbYypR17Ic.6OT5BIE4JwaGkTM4qwB6W7nyfVECyTxD68PODoRHX8I&dib_tag=se&keywords=A+Long+Obedience+in+the+Same+Direction&qid=1748966037&sprefix=a+long+obedience+in+the+same+direction%2Caps%2C224&sr=8-1/tag=christtoday-20] by Eugene Peterson * Moby Dick [https://www.amazon.com/Moby-Dick-Herman-Melville/dp/935440734X/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3OTOH0PJVS5LO&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.PbdPBNTqf6wKWlcSCXKMrbfSoYt-HM8BwyOvizZsYD0Ro42XX1-HnzQF4qlnAnl4o74XbHh1uU90zJPAPM1XAZ8xgbqMsYyGDluAAeJ16EsI4CDUBpiMi9fLhvswZD_1GkFICzhc9ivcI7c3KemT5V1S0AZi-buPRK0AwPN2dVl9kOLipi7_s7ulbNXQnGIrUo8uapmfU1CsEjrcEBsxyW1a0nJcBoJXSBFC28JOt1Q8wg3s4SZCnRaWkYwkJdacIQ4C5pX5_VILL0zOeNazT0qivinYkitY1CUIrwA1LU0.d2W1IX10wOmoSrlcyhvfWG7TIUcIyY68WINm4yoICBE&dib_tag=se&keywords=Moby+Dick&qid=1748966065&sprefix=a+long+obedience+in+the+same+direction%2Caps%2C229&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1/tag=christtoday-20] by Herman Melville * Reading Genesis [https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Genesis-Marilynne-Robinson/dp/0374299404/ref=sr_1_1?crid=IC6U8XS1F9BV&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.gImTXBbefmQCa0gszTkf9qXu_Xe_6aPpOMltk4Oi_V_UeYmygUxe5tSWRreUFHmYpRkXJxLQ9391k6jIPVuu9UTHG4pJmf8_tKp4hAZYiYKp_iuA0vygF1Zx4S7HbQbnuTkyJV7lMcKCoPt-ubjEyPvRJEtKybYLON7TA1qycpUEw4IsDu1QJRqQIDYpaTRew9-pUAbHLyllYHL0aVz49tZJsiIlzFaab-ztdXiJiPE.IwYsZAv15Q5pJcqwq1OE-218LttfkRkPnkNb_aM9lW8&dib_tag=se&keywords=Reading+Genesis&qid=1748966085&sprefix=reading+genesis%2Caps%2C129&sr=8-1/tag=christtoday-20] by Marilynne Robinson * The Pleasures of Reading in an Age of Distraction [https://www.amazon.com/Pleasures-Reading-Age-Distraction/dp/0199747490/ref=sr_1_1?crid=12OAR9H64Y2YH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.45UrzfEhA5MqWkT8-cey7YlPancAPI4EC6GPKSfdJVxWvVwWje94LByOJyxHPuK2bBzsOL5rESvZh09gkK66lk9k6I5wWoN7EoMCqt361RB7jknx_T3qLvIeq1sZmVHcc5o2Ik6ftKZdFHmMm_XCmirlFhe-hf_g_F4uOnq2PNM.odDeBwXKv9GHWFUKISd42fPfn4oVFfqSVETROiFbgdw&dib_tag=se&keywords=The+Pleasures+of+Reading+in+an+Age+of+Distraction&qid=1748966106&sprefix=the+pleasures+of+reading+in+an+age+of+distraction%2Caps%2C155&sr=8-1/tag=christtoday-20] by Alan Jacobs * And selections from Andrew’s own works: Adorning the Dark [https://www.amazon.com/Adorning-Dark-Thoughts-Community-Calling/dp/1535949023/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2FEENSX484BQF&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.E9TgU1u14xchsbPgfsv26HYRRahs0Z4sEvRQZHuf0mODEhjdvT119ym-qfqQX4nkkakfEv0DGcNNKnE4ODJLCszJJVU7b5iyduG8rhOdExJBrgmyqrg4D638lau0g6rD9VIE9dr9G31avj70zyyBoUykJl5D1NPLYWZNID2nWJs.v8pFEIZb_s-7n-7KnqgOFqJfoBoRyyg5xByJjBUKq9A&dib_tag=se&keywords=adorning+the+dark&qid=1748966124&sprefix=adorning+the+da%2Caps%2C136&sr=8-1/tag=christtoday-20], The God of the Garden [https://www.amazon.com/God-Garden-Thoughts-Creation-Culture/dp/1087736951/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2FEENSX484BQF&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.E9TgU1u14xchsbPgfsv26HYRRahs0Z4sEvRQZHuf0mPiMkgMSzxw4q2MDTWB-pZ90ixXxOlHYsjWae9FchZZoA_cSwyTPELskP0hvbqrB8FBrgmyqrg4D638lau0g6rD9VIE9dr9G31avj70zyyBoUykJl5D1NPLYWZNID2nWJs.G0hof4okleBe_JJT9zJwTelFc_GdPBTgOJIWIiGe1wA&dib_tag=se&keywords=adorning+the+dark&qid=1748966138&sprefix=adorning+the+da%2Caps%2C136&sr=8-2/tag=christtoday-20], and The Wingfeather Saga [https://www.amazon.com/Wingfeather-Saga-Boxed-Set-Darkness/dp/0593601882/ref=sr_1_1?crid=RD899KAL9WYG&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.0eT4L5gmLFfR9T1abrsSVqgkec2s9Z8cYc8E8N9GszHi3VVn7diFabOEVmEwm-9W3JjIfyS5-18k62w2-DnRZ_uMpibi1jQzU1dqEJTcd1GkP17ZSwiBfffxRe-p2S5halbJlsrH_dMtEM7ZHWxETLC33g8uWD3PpdW7NL7mdI6rzrLgWL9uydaYCF0tBVAX5D9xQXCGGw4-9bR3d5kPHaiEhAEHv0ZJMidjU9cnICfC9WDdBpUolmLpdl7Rpi-zG7IaJvK4z5gdqkOU_7GqL4IHjSHF8ahjdqHHgEQCBcs.C83jLqfxJQJFSFPEsk6YWBWJNoFLBlc6nM57OqYdX0E&dib_tag=se&keywords=wingfeather+saga&qid=1748966160&sprefix=wingfeather+sag%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-1/tag=christtoday-20] Whether you’re deep in faith, on the brink of losing it, or just looking for something beautiful to read, this conversation will remind you why the right book at the right moment can do more than explain—it can point to new life. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

What do Albert Einstein, the Jesus People,  and Donald Trump all have in common? According to historian and journalist Molly Worthen, they’re all part of a surprising American story about the strange, magnetic force we call charisma. In this episode, Russell Moore sits down with Worthen to explore the themes of her new book, Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History, and why understanding charisma may be the key to understanding American religion, politics, and even ourselves.   From revival tents to campaign rallies to cable news sets, Worthen tracks five distinct types of charisma that have shaped our country’s imagination—from JFK to your local megachurch pastor. Why do some people command a room without saying a word, while others say everything and still lose the crowd?   Moore and Worthen dig into the seduction and danger of charisma, its role in religious experience, and how it can drive both conversion and cults of personality. They also reflect on Worthen’s own journey from atheism to faith, and why figures such as Tim Keller and J.D. Greear played unexpected roles in that story. Plus: the only time Russell Moore has ever found himself in a room full of unconscious people, all but him on the floor—and what that has to do with spiritual longing.   If you’ve ever wondered why we’re drawn to certain voices, movements, or personalities—and how those forces shape the American soul—this conversation will leave you thinking, and maybe even unsettled. Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include: * Spellbound [https://www.amazon.com/Spellbound-Charisma-American-History-Puritans/dp/0593729005/tag=christtoday-20] by Molly Worthen Special offer for listeners of The Russell Moore Show: Click here [https://www.christianitytoday.com/membership/offer/?utm_content=russell-moore&utm_source=megaphone&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=russell-moore-show] for 25% off a subscription to CT magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]