Impolite Conversation: Religion and Politics

On this our final episode, we talk to a few of the people that made this venture possible, and then we chat with each other  about what the experience has meant to us. And in One Last Thing (a segment whose name has never been so apt), we reach for bits of culture that help us come to terms with what we’re losing. Some of the things we discussed in this episode: In our conversation with our repeat guests, we referenced Newdow v. US [https://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/cases/newdow-v-united-states] and Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health [https://www.npr.org/2021/05/17/997478374/supreme-court-to-review-mississippi-abortion-ban]. In our conversation with our editors, we alluded to the great freeware Audacity [https://www.audacityteam.org/] and the Lincoln, Nebraska institution that is Stauffer’s Café and Pie Shoppe [https://www.staufferscafe.com/]. Dan’s One Last Thing was Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aEqGHISwqk]. Tim’s One Last Thing was the Ancillary Justice [https://annleckie.com/novel/ancillary-justice/] trilogy. 0:00-4:53: Introduction 4:57-31:35: Conversations with friends 31:40-43:25: Reflections 43:30-46:59: Dan’s OLT 47:00-49:26: Tim’s OLT 49:27-50:53: Credits 50:37-51:44: Extended Outtake (from episode 13) *** Thank you for listening these past six years! This show has been a labor of love, and it has been a pleasure and privilege for us to produce it each month. We hope you have gotten half as much out of listening to it as we have out of producing it. –Tim and Dan

This month, we start the show with a special announcement. Then we talk with James Beverley, author of God’s Man in the White House [https://www.amazon.com/Gods-Man-White-House-Christian-ebook/dp/B086FWTQ44], about the world of religio-political prophecy. And in One Last Thing, Dan is taking advantage of his free trial of HBO Max and Tim is taking advantage of the public library. Some of the things we talked about on this show: Dr. Beverley mentioned the Vineyard Movement [https://vineyardusa.org/] and the Kansas City Prophets [https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1991/january-14/seers-in-heartland-hot-on-trail-of-kansas-city-prophets.html], as well as the prophecy ministries of a number of individuals, including Jeremiah Johnson [https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/jeremiah-johnson-donald-trump/2021/03/12/6ba1dd5a-81ce-11eb-9ca6-54e187ee4939_story.html], Lance Wallnau [https://lancewallnau.com/], and Kat Kerr [https://www.katkerr.com/]. Many of these ministries align with the New Apostolic Reformation [https://www.npr.org/2011/10/03/140946482/apostolic-leader-weighs-religions-role-in-politics]. Dr. Beverley also mentioned the Institute for Studies of Religion [https://www.baylorisr.org/] at Baylor University [https://www.baylor.edu/]. Here is the Catholic News Service article [https://www.catholicnews.com/son-of-man-son-of-krypton-dc-trilogy-takes-cues-from-christs-passion/] that quotes Dan alongside an advisor to the Pope. Dan’s One Last Thing was the HBO Max series Harley Quinn [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT7A5-oxR3o]. Tim’s One Last Thing was the Hank Green novel An Absolutely Remarkable Thing [https://www.amazon.com/Absolutely-Remarkable-Thing-Novel/dp/1524743445]. 0:00-2:43: Introduction and announcement 2:47-27:53: Berkeley interview 27:58-31:53: Dan’s OLT 31:53-34:27: Tim’s OLT 34:28-35:26: Credits

This month, we talk to Laura Dudley Jenkins, author of Religious Freedom and Mass Conversion in India [https://www.upenn.edu/pennpress/book/15957.html], about the Indian conspiracy theory known as the “love jihad.” And in One Last Thing, Dan splits theological hairs in discussing an animated Star Wars series, while Tim is feeling (ahem) somewhat more expansive. Some of the things we discussed in this episode: Dan mentioned the Deepa Mehta film Fire [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv3jSar70E4] and the resulting riots [http://cscs.res.in/courses_folder/other-courses/papers.2008-03-17.1729485494/glimpses-of-the-fire-documenting-the-debates-around-the-film-fire]. Dr. Jenkins mentioned this story of a boy whose clock was mistaken for a bomb [https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/ahmed-mohamed-irving-and-the-culture-of-hyseria/] and the research that suggests it’s easier to inoculate people against conspiracy theories [https://academic.oup.com/hcr/article-abstract/39/2/184/4093671?redirectedFrom=PDF] than debunk them after the fact. She also talked about how farfetched theories provide good signals of group unity [https://www.politifact.com/article/2010/aug/26/why-do-so-many-people-think-obama-muslim/]. And this story from last summer is a good example of QAnon craziness interfering with genuine efforts to stop sex trafficking [https://coloradotimesrecorder.com/2020/09/qanon-child-abduction-conspiracies-impede-colorado-efforts-to-stop-actual-human-trafficking/29063/]. Tim mentioned the Satanic Panic [https://www.vox.com/culture/22358153/satanic-panic-ritual-abuse-history-conspiracy-theories-explained], which in some ways is still going on [https://newrepublic.com/article/159529/qanon-blood-libel-satanic-panic]. Dan’s One Last Thing was Star Wars: The Clone Wars [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLW2jkd6E7g]. Tim’s One Last Thing was The Expanse [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X5gXIQmY-E]. 0:00-1:12: Introduction 1:16-39:07: Jenkins interview 39:12-44:24: Dan’s OLT 44:25-47:42: Tim’s OLT 47:43-48:51: Credits

This month we talk to Ross Benes [https://www.rossbenes.com/], a native son of Brainerd, Nebraska who has written a book [https://kansaspress.ku.edu/978-0-7006-3045-5.html] about his hometown and his journey away from it and its conservative values. And then Dan tells us all about his new book, The Oxford Handbook of the Bible and American Popular Culture [https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780190461416.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780190461416]. And in One Last Thing, Dan has been visiting Northern Ireland and Tim has been visiting eastern Tennessee. Some of the things we talked about on this show: Mr. Benes mentioned What’s the Matter with Kansas? [https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-Kansas-Conservatives-America/dp/080507774X] and Dinesh D’Souza’s What’s So Great About Christianity [https://www.amazon.com/Whats-So-Great-About-Christianity-ebook/dp/B000WW0LDW/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=What%27s+So+Great+About+Christianity%3F&qid=1614446220&s=books&sr=1-1]. That film trilogy Dan mentioned is The Qatsi Trilogy [https://www.criterion.com/boxsets/934-the-qatsi-trilogy] by Godfrey Reggio. Dan’s One Last Thing was Derry Girls [https://www.netflix.com/title/80238565]. Tim’s One Last Thing was The Barkley Marathons: The Race That Eats Its Young [https://barkleymovie.com/]. (But also: go watch In and Of Itself [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_62BeXxd_jo].) 0:00-2:04: Introduction 2:08-20:44: Benes interview 20:49-33:22: Clanton interview 33:26-35:52: Dan’s OLT 35:52-38:55: Tim’s OLT 38:55-39:55: Credits 39:58-40:12: Outtake

This month, we talk to a researcher at the Pew Research Center about her work on the harassment women face around the globe when their clothing is deemed either too secular or too religious [https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/12/16/women-in-many-countries-face-harassment-for-clothing-deemed-too-religious-or-too-secular/]. And then we have a chat about the Trump years just ended and our expectations for the newly-installed Biden Administration. And in One Last Thing, Dan is engaging his “lizard brain,” while Tim is worrying about those who spread rumors of lizard people. Some of the things we talked about in this episode: We can’t talk about Christian nationalism without mentioning the work of Katherine Stewart [https://katherinestewart.me/], Bradley Onishi [https://straightwhiteamericanjesus.com/series/orange-wave/], and Andrew Whitehead and Samuel Perry [https://www.amazon.com/Taking-America-Back-God-Nationalism/dp/0190057882]. In the early days of the Trump Administration, there was much talk of Trump playing the role of King [https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/3/5/16796892/trump-cyrus-christian-right-bible-cbn-evangelical-propaganda] Cyrus [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/31/opinion/trump-evangelicals-cyrus-king.html]. Dan mentioned this book [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003AU4DIW/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i1] by Lynn Davidman, and Tim referenced this article [https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/01/21/biden-executive-order-transgender-lgbtq/] about the backlash to one particular Biden executive order. Donald Trump has a lot of respect for the sacrament of communion [https://youtu.be/_Zvtl5emEEI?t=140]. Dan’s One Last Thing was the NBC sitcom Superstore [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgZXnTZbF3g]. Tim’s One Last Thing was the book A Lot of People Are Saying [https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691188836/a-lot-of-people-are-saying]. 0:00-1:10: Introduction 1:15-7:18: Majumdar interview 7:23-38:57: Inauguration conversation 39:02-41:46: Dan’s OLT 41:47-44:56: Tim’s OLT 44:57-46:02: Credits 46:06-46:18: Outtake