Episode 37: How Loss Refuses Itself: Voice at the Limit with Ben Meyerson

Episode 37: How Loss Refuses Itself: Voice at the Limit with Ben Meyerson

In episode #37 I talk with scholar and poet Ben Meyerson about his research and writing surrounding “voice” in diasporic song. Ben researches three musical forms: Troubadour lyric, Sephardic Romanzas, and Flamenco song, all of which originate from the Iberian Peninsula, dating from the 11th century to the present. Ben addresses some of the problems in theories of “voice” from thinkers such as Deleuze and Adriana Cavarero, who, he argues, in seeking to universalize “voice” risk losing track of individual, historical, cultural and physical voices. Ben’s interest lies in the complex ways that the singing voice can both protest particular historical losses and draw listeners into its community. We discuss and read from an essay we both deeply revere, Nathaniel Mackey’s “Sound and Sentiment, Sound and Symbol” and we talk about Édouard Glissant’s Poetics of Relation as articulating how voice/voices can both be “in relation” while also maintaining “rootedness.” Finally, Ben reads one of his own poems and speaks about how his research is connected to his Jewish identity. In this poetics-enthusiast’s episode, we also touch on Kristeva, Doug Kearney, Lorca, and Moten. A special treat: we listen to a live recording of New York-based Flamenco singers Juan Pedro Jimenez, Barbara Martinez, and Jackson Scott, courtesy of Tara Laraway’s Salon of the Bittersweet. Listen to the end for that! Texts / authors mentioned and Discussed Adriana Cavarero, For More Than One Voice: Toward a Philosophy of Vocal Expression [https://www.sup.org/books/theory-and-philosophy/more-one-voice] Gilles Deleuze, Expressionism in Philosophy: Spinoza [https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780942299519/expressionism-in-philosophy?srsltid=AfmBOorCEXZUUGdyFnKEd2XWzje2ciFoYPAPi0-nJ7VR1sJz7TIrlXk7] Gilles Deleuze,Difference and Repetition [https://cup.columbia.edu/book/difference-and-repetition/9780231081580/] Federico García Lorca,Theory and Play of the Duende [https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Spanish/LorcaDuende.php] Édouard Glissant, Poetics of Relation [https://press.umich.edu/Books/P/Poetics-of-Relation] Douglas Kearney, Optic Subwoof [https://www.wavepoetry.com/products/optic-subwoof?_pos=1&_sid=00b8bc10d&_ss=r] Julia Kristeva, Revolution in Poetic Language [https://cup.columbia.edu/book/revolution-in-poetic-language/9780231056434/] Nathaniel Mackey, “Sound and Sentiment, Sound and Symbol” [https://www.jstor.org/stable/2930634] Nathaniel Mackey, Splay Anthem [https://www.ndbooks.com/book/splay-anthem/] Benjamin Meyerson, Seguiriyas [https://www.blackocean.org/catalog1/seguiriyas] Benjamin Meyerson, “Over-Abundance and Ineffability: Flamenco, Mysticism and the Joyful Language-Game” [http://liminalities.net/17-1/flamenco.html] Jean-Luc Nancy, Listening [https://fordhampress.com/listening-hb-9780823227723.html] Michel Serres, The Birth of Physics [https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/birth-of-physics-9781786606242/] Steven J. Zipperstein, Pogrom: Kishinev and the Tilt of History. [https://www.abebooks.com/9781631492693/Pogrom-Kishinev-Tilt-History-Zipperstein-1631492691/plp] Ben Meyerson [https://benmeyersonmedia.com/] is the author of the poetry collection Seguiriyas (Black Ocean, 2023) and five prior chapbooks: Near Enough (Seven Kitchens Press, 2023), After Boabdil (The Alfred Gustav Press, 2023), An Ecology of the Void (Above/Ground Press, 2019), Holcocene (Kelsay Books, 2018) and In A Past Life (The Alfred Gustav Press, 2016). He holds an MFA in creative writing from the University of Minnesota and an MA in philosophy from the Universidad de Sevilla. He is currently a PhD candidate in comparative literature at the University of Toronto, where he studies oral poetries of the Iberian Peninsula and philosophies of material complexity.  INTRO Music by Ben Roberts : Benjamin.Roberts447@gmail.com [https://moudisbeity.substack.com/p/my-country-is-this-page] Comments and ideas to Juliealicecarr@gmail.com

Episode 36: My Country is the Page: Moudi Sbeity on the generative power of language

In episode #36 I talk with Lebanese-American poet, author, and contemplative educator, Moudi Sbeity. His forthcoming memoir, Habibi Means Beloved [https://www.moudisbeity.com/habibimeansbeloved], [https://www.moudisbeity.com/habibimeansbeloved] has many stories including foundational experiences of loneliness which become, for Moudi, sources of wisdom and belonging. Moudi talks about growing up in Lebanon, just after the civil war, as a gay kid who stuttered. He discusses what stuttering teaches him about the value and power of words, their ability to not just describe but to create our reality. We talk about his process of coming out in Lebanon and why he felt he had to “break up with God” in order to do so. At age 18, because of the 2006 Israel-Lebanese war, Moudi (an American citizen) was evacuated to live with family in Utah. We talk about Moudi’s complicated feelings about being a plaintiff in Kitchen v. Herbert, the case which brought marriage equality to Utah and the 10th circuit states. In 2020, Moudi found his way back to Islam through Sufism, and on his own terms. I ask him what God is to him (and he answers!). We end by asking whether “God-stuff” is “only” language, and if so, what does that actually mean? And then, we read each other some poems by Gerard Manley Hopkins and by Moudi! Poems read or cited Wendel Berry, Our Real Work [https://grateful.org/resource/our-real-work-poem-wendell-berry/] Gerard Manley Hopkins, Pied Beauty [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44399/pied-beauty] John O'Donohue, Flue [https://www.ayearofbeinghere.com/2015/08/john-odonohue-fluent.html]nt [https://www.ayearofbeinghere.com/2015/08/john-odonohue-fluent.html] Moudi Sbeity, Bread and Salt [https://braidedway.org/bread-and-salt/] Moudi Sbeity, "My Country Is This Page" [https://moudisbeity.substack.com/p/my-country-is-this-page] Music by Ben Roberts : Benjamin.Roberts447@gmail.com [https://moudisbeity.substack.com/p/my-country-is-this-page] Comments and ideas to Juliealicecarr@gmail.com

Episode 35: “What exactly are we doing here”?: Nishant Upadhyay on settler colonialism and its complexities

In episode #35 I talk with ethnic studies scholar Nishant Upadhyay about their book, Indians on Indian Lands: Intersections of Race, Caste, and Indigeneity [https://www.press.uillinois.edu/books/?id=p088216]. Together, we dig into the complexities around “settler colonial frameworks,” thinking about what the category of settler means in cases of forced migration, or migration based on ecocide, genocide, or extreme need. We talk about writing history with a focus on one’s own positionality, how that has been important to both of us. Nishant speaks specifically about Brahminism and Hinduism in India and how these violently hierarchical structures have in some ways migrated with Indian immigrants in Canada and the US, and even within post-colonial and transnational feminist studies. We ask what real solidarity with indigenous struggles (across Turtle Island, South Asia, Palestine, and beyond) might look like in the contexts of our hyper-capitalist societies and the rise of fascism across the globe, and we locate pockets of optimism in our everyday intimacies, acknowledging that we must fight for our right to be together. People and groups mentioned or discussed Key figures in South Asian and Postcolonial Studies: Gayatri Spivak [https://english.columbia.edu/content/gayatri-chakravorty-spivak] Partha Chatterjee [https://anthropology.columbia.edu/content/partha-chatterjee] Dipesh Chakrabarty [https://history.uchicago.edu/directory/dipesh-chakrabarty] Dalit Scholars: Chinnaiah Jangam [https://carleton.ca/history/people/chinnaiah-jangam/] M.S.S. Pandian [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._S._S._Pandian] Braj Raj Mani [https://www.roundtableindia.co.in/braj-ranjan-mani/] Hawai'i scholar and activist: Haunani-Kay Trask [https://awpc.cattcenter.iastate.edu/directory/haunani-kay-trask] Indigenous nations of the Toronto area include: the Mississaugas of the New Credit, Anishinaabe, Chippewa, Haudenosaunee, Wendat, Métis peoples, and many other diverse Indigenous communities. Music by Ben Roberts : Benjamin.Roberts447@gmail.com Comments and ideas to Juliealicecarr@gmail.com

Episode 34: Beat Down the Barriers: Jennifer Scappettone on “Poetry After Barbarism”

In episode #34 I talk with poet, artist, translator and scholar Jennifer Scappettone about her new book, Poetry After Barbarism: The Invention of Motherless Tongues and Resistance to Fascism [https://cup.columbia.edu/book/poetry-after-barbarism/9780231212090/], in which she explores the power of a planetary, xenoglossic poetry of resistance—which is to say, a polyglot poetry that rejects mastery in favor of strangeness, a poetry that exposes how we are all outside of language, speaking and writing in waywardness and errancy. We begin with Jen’s multicultural and translingual upbringing on Long Island, her childhood obsession with the Statue of Liberty, and her time living in Japan as a young adult. We recall our years together as graduate students, and I take the opportunity to confess how I envied and was intimidated by Jen during that time, emotions that eventually transformed into admiration and love. We talk about the complexities of “contamination”: the powerful and necessary contaminations of all languages and cultures as they interact, counterposed against a literal contamination that forms one of Jen’s other obsessions, registered in her work on environmental injustice: the dangerous and often deadly contamination of the land. Jen reads us a poem by the Italian-Jewish poet and musician/musicologist Amelia Rosselli and speaks about Rosselli’s remarkable biography growing up in an antifascist Irish-English/Italian family. Along the way we (of course) speak of our mothers, ask how we might wrest a complicated and difficult beauty from the diseases of our time, and somehow arrive at Genesis I:2 (in multiple translations) and the question of the plurality (infinite) of God(s). Texts and people discussed: Etel Adnan [https://www.whitecube.com/artists/etel-adnan] Theodor Adorno, “On Lyric Poetry and Society” [https://cup.columbia.edu/book/notes-to-literature/9780231063326/] Don Mee Choi [https://www.donmeechoi.com/] Lyn Hejinian, The Language of Inquiry [https://www.ucpress.edu/books/the-language-of-inquiry/paper] Lyn Hejinian, The Beginner [https://www.abebooks.com/signed-first-edition/Beginner-Hejinian-Lyn-U.S.A-Tuumba-Press/17784988801/bd] Amelia Rosselli: Locomotrix: Selected Poetry and Prose of Amelia Rosselli, a Bilingual Edition [https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/L/bo12620076.html] Sawako Nakayasu [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/sawako-nakayasu] Jennifer Scappettone, The Republic of Exit 43: Outtakes & Scores from an Archaeology and Pop-Up Opera of the Corporate Dump [https://www.oikost.com/books/poetry/the-republic-of-exit-43] Jennifer Scappettone [https://www.oikost.com/] works at the confluence of the literary, translational, visual, and scholarly arts, and is Professor [https://english.uchicago.edu/people/jennifer-scappettone] of English and romance languages, gender studies, and the Committee on Environment, Geography, and Urbanization at the University of Chicago, where she directs the Environmental Arts+Humanities Lab [https://cegu.uchicago.edu/research/environmental-humanities-arts/]. [https://cegu.uchicago.edu/research/environmental-humanities-arts/]She is the author of five full-length books, including the scholarly monographs Poetry After Barbarism: The Invention of Motherless Tongues and Resistance to Fascism [https://cup.columbia.edu/book/poetry-after-barbarism/9780231212090/]and Killing the Moonlight: Modernism in Venice [https://cup.columbia.edu/book/killing-the-moonlight/9780231164337/]. Her chapbooks include SMOKEPENNY LYRICHORD HEAVENBRED: 2 Acts [https://www.oikost.com/books/poetry/4904-2](The Elephants) featuring librettos for mixed-reality performance with Judd Morrissey and Ava Aviva Avnisan, and as curating poet, with Etel Adnan and Lyn Hejinian, Belladonna Elders Series #5: Poetry, Landscape, Apocalypse [https://www.belladonnaseries.org/chaplets/p/122-the-elders-series-etel-adnan-lyn-hejinian-jennifer-scappettone] (Belladonna, 2009) [https://www.belladonnaseries.org/chaplets/p/122-the-elders-series-etel-adnan-lyn-hejinian-jennifer-scappettone]. Both are available for download, free of charge. Her current project devoted to the “copper lyre” subtending telecommunications networks, Pennies from Nether, was a finalist for the 2024 Creative Capital Award in Literature.  Music by Benjamin Roberts: benjamin.roberts447@gmail.com [benjamin.roberts447@gmail.com] comments and questions: juliealicecarr@gmail.com

Episode 33: Neighbor: Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg on Collapse, Entanglement, Spiral Time & Minneapolis 2026

In episode #33 I talk with Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg about two terms that have been central to her lately: “collapse” and “entanglement.” We read from and discuss Anna Tsing’s The Mushroom at the End of the World, a book that helps think through these themes. Rabbi Jessica talks about what it’s been like on the ground in Minneapolis this winter, how confronting state violence and authoritarianism in real-time by caring for her neighbors has been both terrifying and profound in how it’s changed her sense of what “entanglement” really means. We discuss how accepting that we are in a time of collapse (of institutions, structures, and climate) might paradoxically help us get out of bed in the morning, rather than paralyzing us with fear. I bring up my obsession with “Longtermism” (not a fan), and Rabbi Jessica shares her thinking around “spiral time” in the context of the Jewish calendar, insisting that we can think long term while “holding the collective liberation of all people on the planet right now in our minds and hearts.” We end by talking about what both personal and collective grief can teach us, awakening us to the now. Texts and people discussed: Ross Gay, Inciting Joy: Essays [https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/ross-gay/inciting-joy/9781643753959/] poupeh missaghi, “When Bombs Fall: Saying Yes to Life” [https://www.parapraxismagazine.com/articles/when-bombs-fall] Aurora Levins Morales [https://www.auroralevinsmorales.com/] Susan Raffo with Kelly Hayes, “‘Minneapolis Community Defense Is “Riding on the Learning Edge of a Whirlwind’” (Interview) [https://organizingmythoughts.org/minneapolis-community-defense-is-riding-on-the-learning-edge-of-a-whirlwind/] Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg, For Times Such as These: A Radical’s Guide to the Jewish Year [https://www.fortimessuchasthesebook.com/] Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg, “Spiral Time in Collapse: Dvar for Erev Rosh Hashana 5786” [https://www.wtctc.org/blog/spiraltime] Émile P Torres, “Against Longermism” [https://aeon.co/essays/why-longtermism-is-the-worlds-most-dangerous-secular-credo] (Note: I mistakenly credited this essay to Sam Dresser. Dresser edited it, but It was authored by Torres in 2021.) Anna Tsing, The Mushroom at the End of the World: On the Possibility of Life in Capitalist Ruins [https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691220550/the-mushroom-at-the-end-of-the-world?srsltid=AfmBOoq9X6zQw6JxSUGLbBW8UrSprecTlaCuXfTKev4ADR6ota_hBjFN] Music by Ben Roberts : Benjamin.Roberts447@gmail.com Comments and ideas to Juliealicecarr@gmail.com