Episode 77: Love Triangles, Secondary Characters, and POV in Fourth Wing

Episode 77: Love Triangles, Secondary Characters, and POV in Fourth Wing

Welcome to Story Deep Dive! In this episode, Dana and Rachel dig into the characters of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros: the secondary cast that mirrors the protagonist, a love triangle with two real answers, and the POV choice that makes the dragon banter land. Whether you’re a romance writer, fantasy author, or story strategist, you’ll gain valuable insights on anchoring your cast to your protagonist’s needs, setting up internal reveals like a mystery, and choosing POV on purpose instead of by default. You can also watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube! Estimate Timestamps 1:27 – Rachel’s Check-In: Story Cypher The NOV 101 working weekend: three days of focused sessions where students work, troubleshoot, and push projects over the finish line at the end of the semester. 3:30 – Dana’s Check-In: Danja Tales The DTW summer retreat arrives, covering series creation, recurring casts, and interconnected series decisions, stacked deliberately between boot camp and July’s first Triple Threat book club. Dana frames the retreat as a mirror moment: reflection plus intentional coaching. 24:12 – Secondary Characters as Streams Into a River Dana’s cast framework: every secondary character in Fourth Wing is laser-pointed at what Violet needs, depositing or agitating something that forces her to decide who she’s becoming. Rachel turns it into a practical tool for weeding out filler cast members: give them a role or cut them. 30:31 – One Transformation Per Book, Set Up Like a Mystery Rachel’s rule for internal arcs and where Fourth Wing wobbles: the late-story shift feels like a changed subject. Her fix: treat reveals like mysteries, with clues that let the reader look back and say “it was right there.” Dana’s version: breadcrumbs, Hansel and Gretel style. 35:06 – The Missed Reveal A late character reveal that could have transformed the book had it started on page one. Dana converts it into the relatability principle: we can’t relate to riding dragons, but we can relate to not wanting to disappoint a parent. “That’s just another hook.” 37:48 – A Love Triangle With Two Real Answers Why this triangle works when most don’t. Rachel names the failure modes the vanilla nobody, the obvious scumbag; Dana frames it as want versus need, the coddler versus the one who says you’re stronger than this, with Sweet Home Alabama as the gold standard. 47:33 – First Person Present, On Purpose Rachel’s case for the POV choice: present tense makes the telepathic dragon commentary land as genuine interruption and gives the mind-palace magic real immediacy. Dana’s framing: knowing why the common choice is right for your story beats defaulting to it. 59:30 – Dana’s Three Questions The episode’s takeaway toolkit: What journey is your protagonist on? What do they need most? What will it take to get it? Pick answers connected to the journey, not the most convenient ones, because “we don’t have Rebecca Yarros’ marketing budget.” Book Selection: Title: Fourth Wing Author: Rebecca Yarros Enter the brutal and elite world of a war college for dragon riders from #1 New York Times bestselling author Rebecca Yarros Twenty-year-old Violet Sorrengail was supposed to enter the Scribe Quadrant, living a quiet life among books and history. Now, the commanding general—also known as her tough-as-talons mother—has ordered Violet to join the hundreds of candidates striving to become the elite of Navarre: dragon riders. But when you’re smaller than everyone else and your body is brittle, death is only a heartbeat away...because dragons don’t bond to “fragile” humans. They incinerate them. With fewer dragons willing to bond than cadets, most would kill Violet to better their own chances of success. The rest would kill her just for being her mother’s daughter—like Xaden Riorson, the most powerful and ruthless wingleader in the Riders Quadrant. She’ll need every edge her wits can give her just to see the next sunrise. Yet, with every day that passes, the war outside grows more deadly, the kingdom’s protective wards are failing, and the death toll continues to rise. Even worse, Violet begins to suspect leadership is hiding a terrible secret. Friends, enemies, lovers. Everyone at Basgiath War College has an agenda—because once you enter, there are only two ways out: graduate or die. Where to Find the Book Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros is available in several formats. It’s also widely available in libraries and online retailers. Details on her website [https://rebeccayarros.com/fourthwing]. Next Episode: In the next episode, Dana and Rachel close out Fourth Wing with their editor's takeaways: show versus tell in a 90-percent-dialogue novel, fragility that's told but never shown, and the reader trust that limitations build. Plus, the next book pick is announced. Join the Conversation: Like what you heard? Subscribe, leave a review, and share your thoughts. Follow Story Deep Dive at storydeepdive.com [http://www.storydeepdive.com] and connect with Dana and Rachel to keep the discussion going! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit storydeepdive.substack.com [https://storydeepdive.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Write a Novel with Rachel

Rachel from Story Cipher here! If you’ve been around awhile, you’ve heard me talk week to week about the Academy where I coach members through writing their novels. This week, I’m opening the doors for new members! If you are struggling to get the story in your head actually on the page, I can show you how! When you join the Academy, we get you started with what is called Novel 101, where we spend 6 months guiding you through the ins and outs of writing a novel. * We develop your story Idea into a plot with an outline * We bring the outline to life by writing two whole drafts * We learn to smooth it all out through the process of revision I take everything there is to know about writing your story and break it down piece by piece. If you are looking to write a novel, Novel 101 will show you how. We’ve had members writing for the first time, developing a WIP, struggling to give their vivid characters a plot, you name it! If you love stories and are eager to craft your own story, then Novel 101 is for you! By the end of this year, you could have a strong draft and all of the skills that go into shaping your other novels. If you are interested I have the complete syllabus you can download here → www.storycipher.me/academy [http://www.storycipher.me/academy] Kickoff starts June 22! I can’t wait to see you! ~ Rachel This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit storydeepdive.substack.com [https://storydeepdive.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Episode 76: Openings, Soft Magic, and Escalating Stakes in Fourth Wing

Welcome to Story Deep Dive! In this episode, Dana and Rachel break down the plot of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros, from the in-medias-res opening to the magic system that had both editors reaching for their red pens. Whether you’re a romance writer, fantasy author, or story strategist, you’ll gain valuable insights on opening at full speed without flattening your escalation, choosing how an academic setting drives your plot, and why an unconstrained magic system quietly undermines your stakes. You can also watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube! Estimate Timestamps 0:24 – Dana’s Check-In: Danja Tales Dana is on book three of three, drafting an entire romance series before releasing book one. She unpacks the why: closing open loops, drafting lean, and learning how she gets in her own way during first drafts. Rachel puts a pin in it for a future follow-up episode. 9:52 – Rachel’s Check-In: Story Cypher Academy enrollment opens June 13 for one week. Rachel walks through what’s new in NOV 101: a comprehensive syllabus mapping every module’s skills, and a workbook for building a consistent writing practice before the first draft begins. 💡 For more information about The Academy visit: www.storycipher.me/academy [http://www.storycipher.me/academy]. 29:36 – The Opening: In Medias Res Done Right The story opens mid-argument, and that argument carries the entire setup. Rachel shares her metric: how much information does the inciting incident need to be meaningful? Dana adds hers: make entry a no-brainer, because momentum buys reader grace. “We give you 50 feet.” 35:41 – If You Open at 100, That’s the Baseline Rachel’s roller coaster analogy meets Dana’s pacing warning: a rocket-launch opening means everything after has to escalate from there, and you pay for the speed on the back end. 36:19 – Academic Settings: Two Ways to Play It Rachel’s framework: either the school is the antagonist with built-in escalating trials (Fourth Wing), or the school is the setting and the conflict centers elsewhere (Ninth House). Know which you’re writing, and populate the space between challenges with rivals, training, and other forces of antagonism. 46:12 – Hard Magic, Soft Magic, and the Squishy Problem Dana flags the magic as too squishy, and Rachel runs the hard-versus-soft spectrum. Unconstrained magic functions like deus ex machina and undermines the stakes of the whole story. Dana’s line: “If you are saying this is a fantasy, we don’t get a pass because it’s a romantasy.” 56:34 – The Romance Is Owed Equal Weight Dana’s standard for genre blends: equal, not token, or leave it a subplot. The slow burn earns patience early, the last third rushes, and “sex is not going to paper over everything.” Get the undercurrent right and everything else is gravy. 1:01:22 – The Freshness Pass Three reading lists (fantasy, romance, romantasy) and a market warning from both hosts: Fourth Wing got a pass for being first and fresh. Now that it’s been done, your book won’t get the same one. Book Selection: Title: Fourth Wing Author: Rebecca Yarros Enter the brutal and elite world of a war college for dragon riders from #1 New York Times bestselling author Rebecca Yarros Twenty-year-old Violet Sorrengail was supposed to enter the Scribe Quadrant, living a quiet life among books and history. Now, the commanding general—also known as her tough-as-talons mother—has ordered Violet to join the hundreds of candidates striving to become the elite of Navarre: dragon riders. But when you’re smaller than everyone else and your body is brittle, death is only a heartbeat away...because dragons don’t bond to “fragile” humans. They incinerate them. With fewer dragons willing to bond than cadets, most would kill Violet to better their own chances of success. The rest would kill her just for being her mother’s daughter—like Xaden Riorson, the most powerful and ruthless wingleader in the Riders Quadrant. She’ll need every edge her wits can give her just to see the next sunrise. Yet, with every day that passes, the war outside grows more deadly, the kingdom’s protective wards are failing, and the death toll continues to rise. Even worse, Violet begins to suspect leadership is hiding a terrible secret. Friends, enemies, lovers. Everyone at Basgiath War College has an agenda—because once you enter, there are only two ways out: graduate or die. Where to Find the Book Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros is available in several formats. It’s also widely available in libraries and online retailers. Details on her website [https://rebeccayarros.com/fourthwing]. Next Episode: In the next episode, Dana and Rachel turn to the characters of Fourth Wing: secondary casts that mirror the protagonist, a love triangle with real stakes, and the POV choice that makes the dragons sing. Join the Conversation: Like what you heard? Subscribe, leave a review, and share your thoughts. Follow Story Deep Dive at storydeepdive.com [http://www.storydeepdive.com] and connect with Dana and Rachel to keep the discussion going! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit storydeepdive.substack.com [https://storydeepdive.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Come Plot With Coach Dana

Hey Story Deep Dive fam! You know I talk about story on here all the time. The craft of it. What makes a reader stay up past midnight. What makes a book impossible to put down. I run a Bootcamp for romance writers a few times a year. Five days, one hour a day, where I walk writers through plotting their romance novel using the framework I’ve used to plot hundreds of books over twenty years. By the end of the week, you have a complete plot outline you can actually draft from. We have one coming up June 15–19, and I want to personally invite you. If you’ve got a romance novel living rent-free in your head, one you can feel but can’t seem to finish, this is the week we fix that. I made a short video talking about it. Watch it above, and if it sounds like something you need, the link is right here. 👉🏾 danjatales.com/bootcamp/ [http://danjatales.com/bootcamp/] I’d love to see you in the room. Until then, I’ll “see” you tomorrow when talk about characters in Fourth Wing. All right, ya girl’s out! As always, happy writing. Dana Pittman, JDChief StoryTeller | Developmental Editor | USA Today Bestselling AuthorI help aspiring authors write addictive romance and fantasy novels.www.danjatales.com [http://www.danjatales.com/] | www.danjataleswriters.com [http://www.danjataleswriters.com/] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit storydeepdive.substack.com [https://storydeepdive.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Episode 75: Romantasy, Genre Blending, and High Stakes in Fourth Wing

Welcome to Story Deep Dive! In this episode, Dana and Rachel open their four-part deep dive into Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros with the conversation every romantasy writer needs first: what this genre actually is and what it demands of you. Whether you’re a romance writer, fantasy author, or story strategist, you’ll gain valuable insights on blending two genres without shortchanging either, intertwining external and romantic stakes, and writing for the audience your book is actually promising. You can also watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube! Estimate Timestamps 0:52 – Rachel’s Check-In: Story Cypher NOV 101 enters its final module: revision. Rachel walks through the act-by-act revision workbook her students use after completing two full drafts, and why it’s built to serve writers whether they need three drafts or fifteen. 4:22 – Dana’s Check-In: Danja Tales June at Danja Tales brings the Romance Writers Bootcamp, five days, one act per day on the romance four-act structure, plus the first DTW summer retreat. Dana explains the difference between learning the four-act structure and using ARB to plot a romance, and why this boot camp gets clean teaching time on every act. 💡 For more information about Romance Writers Bootcamp visit: www.danjatales.com/bootcamp [http://www.danjatales.com/bootcamp]. 18:14 – The Blurb and What Romantasy Actually Is After the Fourth Wing blurb, Dana defines the commonalities she looks for in a romantasy: the happily ever after, fantastical elements, magic, otherworldliness, increased stakes, and life-or-death consequences that reach beyond the protagonist. Her caution: “every romantasy is not the same.” 26:18 – Why Genre Designations Matter Rachel connects definitions to outcomes: knowing your genre’s expectations lets you deliver them intentionally and market to the right audience. A mismatch between marketing and audience means readers arrive with expectations you never planned to meet. Dana adds the traditional publishing angle: sometimes your audience is an audience of one. 29:16 – The Macro Structure Works Rachel establishes the baseline before any critique: Fourth Wing’s overarching structure functions. Escalating challenges, a clear midpoint, an all-is-lost slide, a climax that gathers the threads, and a cliffhanger into book two. Everything else this month is developmental-editor work on stacking the odds. 31:44 – New Adult, 90% Dialogue, and Two Genres at Once The episode’s three running threads: Fourth Wing is new adult and reads close to YA, it’s written in roughly 90 percent dialogue with very little prose, and combining genres makes you responsible for both. Rachel contrasts Violet with Alex Stern in Ninth House and Vin in Mistborn, young protagonists who read older because their stories demand it. 43:43 – Intertwined Stakes Dana’s core teaching for the month: in a romantasy, the external stakes and the road to the happily ever after must be intertwined, so success in one depends on the other. The world building “draws the lines and colors them in,” and every stroke affects the fate of the romance. 58:03 – Caveats from Two Editors Rachel acknowledges the book’s logical gaps and soft world building, and why those bother some readers and not others. Dana lands the month’s thesis: caring about a protagonist covers a multitude of sins, but an editor’s job is to eliminate as many of them as possible. Book Selection: Title: Fourth Wing Author: Rebecca Yarros Enter the brutal and elite world of a war college for dragon riders from #1 New York Times bestselling author Rebecca Yarros Twenty-year-old Violet Sorrengail was supposed to enter the Scribe Quadrant, living a quiet life among books and history. Now, the commanding general—also known as her tough-as-talons mother—has ordered Violet to join the hundreds of candidates striving to become the elite of Navarre: dragon riders. But when you’re smaller than everyone else and your body is brittle, death is only a heartbeat away...because dragons don’t bond to “fragile” humans. They incinerate them. With fewer dragons willing to bond than cadets, most would kill Violet to better their own chances of success. The rest would kill her just for being her mother’s daughter—like Xaden Riorson, the most powerful and ruthless wingleader in the Riders Quadrant. She’ll need every edge her wits can give her just to see the next sunrise. Yet, with every day that passes, the war outside grows more deadly, the kingdom’s protective wards are failing, and the death toll continues to rise. Even worse, Violet begins to suspect leadership is hiding a terrible secret. Friends, enemies, lovers. Everyone at Basgiath War College has an agenda—because once you enter, there are only two ways out: graduate or die. Where to Find the Book Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros is available in several formats. It’s also widely available in libraries and online retailers. Details on her website [https://rebeccayarros.com/fourthwing]. Next Episode: In the next episode, Dana and Rachel dig into the plot of Fourth Wing: the in-medias-res opening, the academic setting, open loops, and the magic system question every romantasy writer needs to answer. Join the Conversation: Like what you heard? Subscribe, leave a review, and share your thoughts. Follow Story Deep Dive at storydeepdive.com [http://www.storydeepdive.com] and connect with Dana and Rachel to keep the discussion going! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit storydeepdive.substack.com [https://storydeepdive.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]