Automation vs. AI for Lawyers, ft. Director of Automation Elisa Silverglade | The Future of Law Is Today, Ep. 14

How Do We Train and Teach With AI? ft. Flits Founder Mathieu Bouillon | The Future of Law Is Today, Ep. 20

Summary Mathieu Bouillon starts the conversation by discussing the adoption of legal AI in Europe compared to the US, highlighting the emergence of legal tech startups and diminishing language barriers. Mathieu also addresses the impact of AI on legal education, stressing the importance of critical thinking and a hybrid approach to learning that incorporates both AI tools and traditional methods. Mathieu and Ceschino discuss the evolving landscape of professional skills in the age of AI, exploring the necessity of continuous learning and unlearning, the impact of AI on professional expertise, and the challenges of maintaining skill levels without becoming overly reliant on technology. The discussion also touches on the future of junior hiring and the importance of mentorship and human connection in a technology-driven world. Takeaways * European law firms are adopting AI at a similar pace to US firms. * Language barriers in legal tech are diminishing due to AI. * AI can enhance productivity but may lead to skill decay and dependency, so skilled professionals must avoid using AI as a crutch. * Critical thinking is essential in the age of AI. * The future of legal work will involve both AI and human expertise, so legal education must adapt to include AI training. * Quality output requires human creativity and critical thinking alongside AI. * A hybrid approach to education is necessary for future lawyers. * Change is the new normal, and professionals must adapt continuously. * The illiterate of the 21st century will be those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn. * The future of junior hiring may involve fewer positions due to AI efficiency. * Mentorship and hands-on experience are crucial for junior professionals in the age of AI. * Companies risk long-term viability by not hiring juniors. * AI should be viewed as an assistant, not a replacement for human skills. Chapters 00:00 Matthew Bouillon's Journey in Law and AI 03:51 AI Adoption in Europe vs. the US 07:32 Building in Legal AI 10:37 AI's Impact on Legal Education and Training 18:44 The Importance of Adapting by Learning and Unlearning 20:04 AI's Impact on Experienced Professionals’ Skills 24:20 Avoiding AI Dependency While Using AI 27:50 The Future of Junior Hiring and Training in the AI Era 32:29 Keeping It Human: A Missed Opportunity Keywords AI, legal tech, law firms, education, organizational transformation, AI adoption, critical thinking, future of law, learning, professional development, junior hiring, productivity, creativity, mentorship, technology, legal practice, sustainable business practices, talent strategy, talent management

An In-House Lawyer’s Perspective on Buying AI, ft. In-House Counsel Travis Zollner | The Future of Law Is Today, Ep. 19

Summary Travis Zollner joins Ceschino to discuss the frustration of navigating the legal AI world as a practicing lawyer looking for reliable solutions and clear information about what any given solution does and doesn’t do. Travis discusses the challenges and opportunities of integrating AI into legal workflows, emphasizing the importance of accuracy and the need for human oversight. The conversation explores the push for AI in legal settings and where it’s coming from, the risks associated with overrelying on AI without human oversight, and the necessity for transparency in AI solutions, marketing, and sales. Ultimately, the discussion highlights the balance between leveraging technology for efficiency while ensuring legal integrity. Takeaways * Pressure to use and buy AI often comes without direction from leadership. * AI can create efficiencies but also introduces risks — hallucinations remain a problem. * Accuracy in AI outputs is a major concern for legal professionals. * Human oversight is essential when using AI in legal work. * The push for AI integration comes from a desire for efficiency, but the need to review every output compromises those gains. * AI vendors often lack transparency about their solutions’ limitations. * Legal teams need to understand in practical terms where AI can be beneficial and what its limits are. * The importance of context in legal agreements cannot be overstated. * Honesty in AI pitches is crucial for driving effective adoption. Chapters 00:00 Travis’s Career Journey 04:08 Navigating Legal Tech and AI as a Buyer 07:22 Where Is the Push for AI Coming From? 09:10 Understanding AI’s Limitations and Risks in Legal Work (Especially When You’re an AI) 14:12 A Call for Transparency in AI Product Pitches 19:09 Evaluating Risk at Scale 22:49 What Lawyers Want: The Perfect(ly Transparent) AI Pitch 27:02 Keeping It Human: Fantasy and Gaming Nerds Keywords legal tech, AI in law, buying AI, tech procurement, assessing vendors, in-house counsel, career journey, legal workflows, AI integration, accuracy in AI, human oversight, legal technology, future of law

AI Negotiation Agents and the New Law Career, ft. Ozeki Founder Kenneth Carter | The Future of Law Is Today, Ep. 18

Summary Kenneth Carter shares his journey from being a lawyer to founding Ozeki, a legal tech company focused on automating and enhancing negotiation processes. He discusses the limitations of generative AI in legal contexts and introduces the concept of “artificial discretion” as a more effective approach. The conversation explores the nuances of negotiation strategies, the role of trust in negotiation, and the evolving landscape of legal careers in the face of automation, emphasizing the need for a multidisciplinary skill set in the future of law. The Future of Law Is Today is the official podcast of The Legal Tech Guide (thelegaltechguide.com [http://thelegaltechguide.com]). Takeaways * Generative AI has limitations in legal applications due to its tendency to hallucinate. * Effective negotiation requires understanding both parties' values and needs. * AI can augment human negotiators rather than replace them. * Negotiation is about creating value through trade-offs, not just redlining documents. * Building trust in negotiations involves sharing selective information. * A diverse skill set enhances problem-solving capabilities in law. * Young and future lawyers should embrace multidisciplinary approaches to their careers. * The legal profession is evolving with the tech. * Creativity and adaptability are essential for success in the changing legal landscape. Chapters 00:00 From Lawyer to Founder: A Journey of Optimization 02:57 AI Beyond LLMs and Language Generation 04:41 Agentic AI: the New Frontier 11:18 Agentic Legal Tech to Automate Negotiation, Not Document Generation 14:03 Creating Value by Fixing the Broken Negotiation Process 19:52 Building Trust in Negotiations: The Indifference Curve 22:18 Coming Up With the Ozeki Name 24:24 Advice for New and Aspiring Lawyers: Embrace Multidisciplinarity 28:55 Keeping It Human: Modeling for a Children’s Book Keywords legal tech, AI, negotiation, law, future of law, legal careers, technology in law, discretion, negotiation strategies

The Legal OS and Reshaping the Practice of Law, ft. 9to5 Founder Marla Calvert Miller and Legal Futurist Anastasia Boyko | The Future of Law Is Today, Ep. 17

Summary This episode explores an emerging concept in legal tech and AI: the legal operating system. 9to5 Legal Docs founder Marla Calvert Miller and legal futurist Anastasia Boyko share insights earned over a varied pair of careers in legal practice, legal tech, and legal education and training. They join Ceschino to discuss how AI and the concept of the legal OS are giving lawyers a chance to reshape legal services and rethink what they want their careers as lawyers to be. The discussion also addresses the importance of a systems-based approach to tech and legal operations, and strategies for managing change in legal practices. The Future of Law Is Today is the official podcast of The Legal Tech Guide (thelegaltechguide.com [http://thelegaltechguide.com]). Takeaways * AI gives us a chance to rethink legal service delivery as a profession * 9to5 is building a legal operating system for transactional law * The legal OS needs to do more than just handle documents, matters, and intake * Different types of practice need their own tailored operating systems * Empathy and human connection are core competencies in legal tech and legal practice, now more than ever * Lawyers should reflect on their career goals and personal values when making decisions, from adopting new tech to choosing career paths * Lawyers must prioritize security and privacy in legal AI implementations * Practice managers need to engage with clients to understand their needs and preferences * Leaders should develop a North Star to guide change management in legal practices Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Marla’s and Anastasia’s Legal Journeys 04:10 Shaping Legal Careers 09:00 Reimagining Legal Services With AI 14:20 The Legal Operating System Concept 17:10 Putting Lawyers’ Clients Front and Center in Legal Tech 20:11 Reacting to Claude for Legal 24:38 Substance in Legal AI Marketing: What Do The Tools Really Do? 27:19 Navigating Security When Trying Legal AI 30:12 Business of Law: Shifting to Alternative Billing Arrangements 35:23 Nobody Wants to Talk to Your AI Bot 37:44 Fixing the Empathy Blind Spot in Legal Services 39:57 Defining Your Team's North Star to Guide Tech Adoption 42:59 Keeping It Human: Keep It Weird Keywords Legal Tech, AI, Legal Innovation, Legal Practice, Legal Operating System, Legal Careers, Legal Tech Adoption, Legal AI Tools

Staying Composed Even With Ambitious Goals, ft. Paragon Tech Founder Jay McAllister | The Future of Law Is Today, Ep. 16

Summary Jay McAllister joins Ceschino to share his experience working in high-pressure environments of his own creation, and how he maintains focus and composure while targeting ambitious goals. Jay discusses the inspiration behind and results of his 100x social experiment. The conversation also explores the psychology of personal motivation, pressure, and the desire for achievement, and how to balance goal-oriented ambition with a productive level of appreciation for the progress that’s already been made. The Future of Law Is Today is the official podcast of The Legal Tech Guide (thelegaltechguide.com [http://thelegaltechguide.com]). Takeaways * Before starting a new business initiative, it’s crucial to define parameters for success * Business initiatives should focus on eliminating the largest constraints, not pet projects * The best way to elevate performance is with consistent processes and systems * Jay challenged himself to 100x his output on social media to source new clients * He established accountability and set up systems and support to make scaling possible * Self-assessment is often overly negative — it’s important to acknowledge the gains made as well as remaining goals * Mindset matters: believing you can do something new is a prerequisite to doing it * Taking on greater responsibility can force people to become more productive in general Chapters 00:00 Jay’s Focus as an Entrepreneur and Advisor to Attorneys 05:45 Defining Success in Business Initiatives 10:56 Elevating Performance With Consistent Processes and Systems 11:54 The 100x Social Experiment: Inspiration 16:02 Purpose and Structure of the 100x Experiment 19:42 The Gap Versus the Gain: Learning to Reframe Self-Assessment 24:40 Desire as a Personal Contract to Be Unhappy 26:33 Never Say “Can’t” 29:43 Setting Up the 100x Experiment 35:16 Productivity Hack: Take on More Work 38:07 Results of the 100x Experiment 43:06 Keeping It Human: Fun Economics and Science Facts Keywords Law, legal tech, AI, productivity, motivation, inspiration, scaling, discipline, business operations, legal operations, systems thinking, process improvement