The Product Experience

In this episode of The Product Experience, Randy Silver and Lily Smith sit down with Katja Forbes, Executive Director at Standard Chartered Bank, design leader, and lecturer, to explore the fast-approaching world of machine customers. Katja shares why businesses must prepare for a future where AI agents, autonomous vehicles, and procurement bots act as customers, and what this means for product managers, designers, and organisations. Key takeaways 1. Machine customers are here already. From booking services for Tesla cars to procurement bots closing contracts, AI-driven commerce is no longer hypothetical. 2. APIs are necessary but insufficient. Businesses need to think beyond plumbing and address trust, compliance, and customer experience for non-human agents. 3. Signal clarity matters. Organisations must make their value propositions machine-readable to remain competitive. 4. Trust will be quantified. Compliance signals, ESG proof, uptime guarantees, and reliability ratings will replace human gut instinct. 5. New roles will emerge. Trust analysts and human–machine hybrid coordinators will be critical in shaping future interactions. 6. Ethics cannot be ignored. Without careful design, agentic commerce could amplify consumerism and poor societal outcomes. 7. Practical first step. Even small businesses can prepare by structuring their product and service data into machine-readable formats. 8. Product managers must adapt. The skill to manage ambiguity, think systemically, and anticipate unintended consequences will be central to success. Featured Links: Follow Katja on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/katjaforbes/] | Katja's website [https://www.katjaforbes.com/] | Sign-up for pre sale access [https://www.thecxevolutionist.ai/] to Katja's forthcoming book 'The CX Evolutionist' Our Hosts Lily Smith enjoys working as a consultant product manager with early-stage and growing startups and as a mentor to other product managers. She’s currently Chief Product Officer at BBC Maestro, and has spent 13 years in the tech industry working with startups in the SaaS and mobile space. She’s worked on a diverse range of products – leading the product teams through discovery, prototyping, testing and delivery. Lily also founded ProductTank Bristol and runs ProductCamp in Bristol and Bath. Randy Silver is a Leadership & Product Coach and Consultant [http://outofowls.com]. He gets teams unstuck, helping you to supercharge your results. Randy's held interim CPO and Leadership roles at scale-ups and SMEs, advised start-ups, and been Head of Product at HSBC and Sainsbury’s. He participated in Silicon Valley Product Group’s Coaching the Coaches forum, and speaks frequently at conferences and events. You can join one of communities he runs for CPOs (CPO Circles [https://www.cpo.social/]), Product Managers (Product In the {A}ether [http://www.pita.social/]) and Product Coaches. He’s the author of What Do We Do Now? A Product Manager’s Guide to Strategy in the Time of COVID-19 [https://outofowls.com/book]. A recovering music journalist and editor, Randy also launched Amazon’s music stores in the US & UK.

In this episode of The Product Experience, Lily Smith and Randy Silver are joined by Kirsten Mann, former CPO at Prospection and now startup founder and board member, to discuss how product leaders can play a vital role on company boards. Drawing from her own board experience and a research series interviewing founders and directors, Kirsten explains why product, culture, and customer insight must be central to boardroom conversations. Key Takeaways — Product’s Place on Boards: Product is a strategic lever, boards should treat it with the same seriousness as financials. — Culture as a Strategic Asset: Culture emerged as the most frequently cited factor in board-level success—more than AI or tech. — From Operator to Overseer: Transitioning to a board role requires stepping back from execution and focusing on governance and strategic guidance. — Communicating with Boards: Product leaders must avoid jargon, speak in terms of customer problems, outcomes, and investment returns. — The Risk of Exclusion: If your product team isn’t presenting to the board, that’s a red flag. — Practical Preparation: Aspiring board members should build financial literacy, start with non-profit boards, and cultivate visibility through writing or public speaking. Chapters 00:00 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRGCaLhZ1hQ] – Culture over strategy: Why getting culture right matters more than clever planning 00:45 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRGCaLhZ1hQ&t=45s] – Meet Kirsten Mann: Introduction and credentials 01:45 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRGCaLhZ1hQ&t=105s] – Career transition: From CPO at Prospection to board member, investor, and startup founder 04:50 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRGCaLhZ1hQ&t=290s] – Early board experience: Saving a youth club through governance and tech 06:45 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRGCaLhZ1hQ&t=405s] – Product’s value on boards: Bringing customer and tech insight into strategic discussions 08:00 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRGCaLhZ1hQ&t=480s] – Oversight, not execution: Adjusting from exec roles to governance roles 09:50 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRGCaLhZ1hQ&t=590s] – Frustration sparks research: Why Kirsten began writing about product leaders on boards 11:00 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRGCaLhZ1hQ&t=660s] – Product strategy ≠ support: The board’s risk-first mindset Our Hosts Lily Smith enjoys working as a consultant product manager with early-stage and growing startups and as a mentor to other product managers. She’s currently Chief Product Officer at BBC Maestro, and has spent 13 years in the tech industry working with startups in the SaaS and mobile space. She’s worked on a diverse range of products – leading the product teams through discovery, prototyping, testing and delivery. Lily also founded ProductTank Bristol and runs ProductCamp in Bristol and Bath. Randy Silver is a Leadership & Product Coach and Consultant [http://outofowls.com]. He gets teams unstuck, helping you to supercharge your results. Randy's held interim CPO and Leadership roles at scale-ups and SMEs, advised start-ups, and been Head of Product at HSBC and Sainsbury’s. He participated in Silicon Valley Product Group’s Coaching the Coaches forum, and speaks frequently at conferences and events. You can join one of communities he runs for CPOs (CPO Circles [https://www.cpo.social/]), Product Managers (Product In the {A}ether [http://www.pita.social/]) and Product Coaches. He’s the author of What Do We Do Now? A Product Manager’s Guide to Strategy in the Time of COVID-19 [https://outofowls.com/book]. A recovering music journalist and editor, Randy also launched Amazon’s music stores in the US & UK.

In this episode of The Product Experience, Randy Silver speaks with Dariusz Dziuk, Product Lead for Music Expression at Spotify, about the origins and evolution of Canvas, the looping visuals that accompany music tracks. From early assumptions and first principles thinking to scaling and measuring marketplace success, he shares how a bold experiment turned into one of Spotify’s most engaging features. Key Takeaways — Balancing Art and Science: Product management often lives between structured analysis and intuitive creativity—success lies in mastering both. — First Principles and Assumptions: Questioning defaults—like static, square cover art—can open doors to bold innovation. — Real Stakes Drive Real Creativity: Artist engagement with Canvas only truly emerged once the stakes felt genuine and public. — Marketplace Thinking: Canvas succeeded because it delivered value for all marketplace participants—creators, consumers, and the platform itself. — Innovation Through Structure: Weekly design sprints and rapid prototyping allowed Spotify’s innovation lab to explore and discard ideas quickly, eventually landing on Canvas. — Scaling Insights: Measurable impact came later—higher engagement, saves, shares, and a new visual identity for music on Spotify. — Artist-Centric Focus: Prioritising the needs of the supply side (artists) can unlock cold start challenges and marketplace growth. Chapters 0:00 – Marketplace Thinking at Spotify 1:20 – Darius Jurek’s Journey into Product 2:45 – From Engineering to 0-to-1 Product Innovation 4:00 – Is Product Management an Art or a Science? 6:30 – The Brief: Connecting Creators and Fans 8:20 – Building an Innovation Lab 10:00 – Exploring Dozens of Ideas 11:45 – Why Canvas Won Out 13:10 – The Challenge of Validating a New Format 16:00 – Questioning the Assumptions Around Cover Art 19:00 – Real Stakeholder Feedback and Creative Buy-In 21:00 – Marketplace Metrics of Success 23:30 – Canvas and the Evolution of Music Discovery 26:00 – Visual Design, Collaboration, and Artist Empowerment 28:00 – Darius on Supplier-Led Product Strategy Featured Links: Follow Dariusz on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dariusz-dziuk/] | Dariusz's website [https://dariuszdziuk.com/] | Spotify [https://newsroom.spotify.com/company-info/] | '#mtpcon @ Pendomonium 2024 Encore' recap https://www.mindtheproduct.com/mtpcon-pendomonium-encore-2024/ Our Hosts Lily Smith enjoys working as a consultant product manager with early-stage and growing startups and as a mentor to other product managers. She’s currently Chief Product Officer at BBC Maestro, and has spent 13 years in the tech industry working with startups in the SaaS and mobile space. She’s worked on a diverse range of products – leading the product teams through discovery, prototyping, testing and delivery. Lily also founded ProductTank Bristol and runs ProductCamp in Bristol and Bath. Randy Silver is a Leadership & Product Coach and Consultant [http://outofowls.com]. He gets teams unstuck, helping you to supercharge your results. Randy's held interim CPO and Leadership roles at scale-ups and SMEs, advised start-ups, and been Head of Product at HSBC and Sainsbury’s. He participated in Silicon Valley Product Group’s Coaching the Coaches forum, and speaks frequently at conferences and events. You can join one of communities he runs for CPOs (CPO Circles [https://www.cpo.social/]), Product Managers (Product In the {A}ether [http://www.pita.social/]) and Product Coaches. He’s the author of What Do We Do Now? A Product Manager’s Guide to Strategy in the Time of COVID-19 [https://outofowls.com/book]. A recovering music journalist and editor, Randy also launched Amazon’s music stores in the US & UK.

In this episode of The Product Experience, Lily and Randy dive into the nuanced world of team collaboration with Jenny Wanger, product ops consultant. Jenny challenges the overuse of RACI matrices in product teams, arguing they often obscure deeper organisational issues rather than solve them. They discuss better alternatives, the root causes behind requests for RACI, and the value of prioritising human relationships over rigid frameworks. Chapters 0:00 – The accountable vs. responsible dilemma 0:37 – Meet Jenny Wanger: Product ops and Reforge 1:20 – RACI: A quick explainer 3:16 – Why RACI falls short in product teams 7:00 – Infantilisation and territorialism 9:18 – The flaws in the terminology 10:14 – The consulted conundrum 11:05 – RACI as a conversation starter 12:01 – Better alternatives: Rapid and others 14:20 – When RACI might be useful 18:01 – Team dysfunction and RACI misuse 23:00 – A case study in resolving collaboration issues 26:00 – RACI as scaffolding, not infrastructure 28:02 – AI, documents, and relationships 30:05 – Diagnosing the real problem behind a RACI request 32:38 – Job descriptions vs. RACI 35:25 – Everyone’s a bit of everything 37:04 – Focusing on mission and collaboration 39:57 – Final thoughts and where to find Jenny’s work Key Takeaways — RACI isn't a cure-all: It often signals deeper dysfunction like poor team structure, unclear mission, or lack of trust. — Healthy teams don't need RACI: When collaboration and communication are strong, formal frameworks become redundant. — Use RACI as scaffolding: Let it initiate conversations, but don’t enshrine it as a permanent solution. — Language matters: Terms like “accountable” and “responsible” are often confused, making the framework less clear than intended. — Consider better alternatives: Frameworks like RAPID offer more clarity around decision-making without creating silos. — Prioritise relationships over roles: Documents don't build culture—conversations and mutual understanding do. Featured Links: Follow Jenny on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennywanger] | Jenny's RACI feature at her website [https://jennywanger.com/articles/raci-charts-are-stifling-collaboration/] | Dave Johnson's page [https://thepragmaticagilist.com/category/book-reviews/] at The Pragmatic Agilist  Our Hosts Lily Smith enjoys working as a consultant product manager with early-stage and growing startups and as a mentor to other product managers. She’s currently Chief Product Officer at BBC Maestro, and has spent 13 years in the tech industry working with startups in the SaaS and mobile space. She’s worked on a diverse range of products – leading the product teams through discovery, prototyping, testing and delivery. Lily also founded ProductTank Bristol and runs ProductCamp in Bristol and Bath. Randy Silver is a Leadership & Product Coach and Consultant [http://outofowls.com]. He gets teams unstuck, helping you to supercharge your results. Randy's held interim CPO and Leadership roles at scale-ups and SMEs, advised start-ups, and been Head of Product at HSBC and Sainsbury’s. He participated in Silicon Valley Product Group’s Coaching the Coaches forum, and speaks frequently at conferences and events. You can join one of communities he runs for CPOs (CPO Circles [https://www.cpo.social/]), Product Managers (Product In the {A}ether [http://www.pita.social/]) and Product Coaches. He’s the author of What Do We Do Now? A Product Manager’s Guide to Strategy in the Time of COVID-19 [https://outofowls.com/book]. A recovering music journalist and editor, Randy also launched Amazon’s music stores in the US & UK.

We revisit our conversation with Frances Ibe, Chief Experience Officer at Tide. Frances shares invaluable insights on her journey from developer to product leadership and how to avoid common pitfalls during the discovery process. Chapters 01:07 – Meet Frances Ibe 02:05 – Common Discovery Pitfalls 03:34 – Embedding Continuous Discovery 04:51 – The Myth of Talking to 20 Customers 06:38 – What is a Data Prototype? 08:03 – Building Confidence in Product Bets 10:42 – Sharing Insights Across the Business 13:52 – Keeping Sprint Reviews Engaging 15:49 – Discovery Through Observation 17:21 – Responding to Data-Driven Disruption 18:30 – The Power of Storytelling 20:49 – Training Teams in Storytelling 22:36 – Maintaining Message Consistency 23:48 – Collaborating Across Disciplines 25:01 – Francis' Game-Changing Advice Featured Links: Follow Frances on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/fiibe/] | Tide [https://www.tide.co/] | 'Six things we learned at the Pendomonium and #mtpcon roadshow - London 2024' feature [https://www.mindtheproduct.com/six-things-we-learned-at-the-pendomoniummtpcon-roadshow-london-2024/] by Louron Pratt Our Hosts Lily Smith enjoys working as a consultant product manager with early-stage and growing startups and as a mentor to other product managers. She’s currently Chief Product Officer at BBC Maestro, and has spent 13 years in the tech industry working with startups in the SaaS and mobile space. She’s worked on a diverse range of products – leading the product teams through discovery, prototyping, testing and delivery. Lily also founded ProductTank Bristol and runs ProductCamp in Bristol and Bath. Randy Silver is a Leadership & Product Coach and Consultant [http://outofowls.com]. He gets teams unstuck, helping you to supercharge your results. Randy's held interim CPO and Leadership roles at scale-ups and SMEs, advised start-ups, and been Head of Product at HSBC and Sainsbury’s. He participated in Silicon Valley Product Group’s Coaching the Coaches forum, and speaks frequently at conferences and events. You can join one of communities he runs for CPOs (CPO Circles [https://www.cpo.social/]), Product Managers (Product In the {A}ether [http://www.pita.social/]) and Product Coaches. He’s the author of What Do We Do Now? A Product Manager’s Guide to Strategy in the Time of COVID-19 [https://outofowls.com/book]. A recovering music journalist and editor, Randy also launched Amazon’s music stores in the US & UK.