Mom Founder Imagination Hub

What does sofrito—a base of herbs and spices used in Puerto Rican cooking—have to do with reimagining business, food security, and conveying a history lesson about a rich and sometimes complex culture? For today’s guest, it’s everything. If you’ve ever wondered how to weave your culture, creativity, and calling into one powerful movement... then this episode is the recipe you’ve been looking for. In this episode, you will hear:   * Food has a cultural foundation passed through generations. * Cultural identity can be preserved and taught through everyday meals. * How to make the best sofrito if you don’t have time to cook. * Food is more than just food – it’s heritage, intention, and a story. * The story of the Puerto Rican pasteles is shared. * Food choices are power moves, shaping local or global economies. * Imagination makes it possible to wear multiple hats and still stay rooted in purpose. * You don’t need permission to do things differently, just the will and a plan. This episode is brought to you by Fertile Imagination: A Guide for Stretching Every Mom’s Superpower for Maximum Impact by Melissa Llarena Audible   Audio Edition: https://www.amazon.com/Fertile-Imagination-Stretching-Superpower-Maximum/dp/B0CY9BZH9W/ref=tmm_aud_swatch_0 [https://www.amazon.com/Fertile-Imagination-Stretching-Superpower-Maximum/dp/B0CY9BZH9W/ref=tmm_aud_swatch_0]   Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/Fertile-Imagination-Stretching-Superpower-Maximum/dp/B0CK2ZSMLB [https://www.amazon.com/Fertile-Imagination-Stretching-Superpower-Maximum/dp/B0CK2ZSMLB]   Hardcover: https://www.amazon.com/Fertile-Imagination-Stretching-Superpower-Maximum/dp/B0D5B64347/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0 [https://www.amazon.com/Fertile-Imagination-Stretching-Superpower-Maximum/dp/B0D5B64347/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0]   Or, download a free chapter at fertileideas.com [http://fertileideas.com]       About Crystal Diaz   Crystal Díaz has spent nearly two decades at the intersection of food, marketing, and cultural advocacy. She co-founded PRoduce, Puerto Rico’s digital marketplace for locally grown food. Crystal is also the force behind El Pretexto, the island’s first culinary farm lodge, where food and imagination meet 2,600 feet above sea level. A committed advocate for food security, she collaborates with Espacios Abiertos to advance agricultural policy. Crystal holds two master’s degrees, including one in Food Studies from NYU. She’s been recognized by Fast Company and El Nuevo Día for her creative leadership and impact in the local food movement. Quotes that can change your perspective:  “If you really want to learn about something and you’re obsessed about it, there’s always ways to learn, to make it happen.” – Crystal Díaz   “With every single meal that we do, with every single snack, everything that we eat, you are impacting economies. And if you want to support your local communities and you want to see them, everybody having a better life, you might want to spend that dollar closer home and making sure that all of the ingredients that are on that food are closer to home so that money stays closer to home.” – Crystal Díaz   “Sofrito is very personal. You know? It’s part of how your family has done it… but also learn that there is a lot of history into it. It’s not something that we do because we do it. There is a lot of history to it.” – Crystal Díaz   “We are on a little island. We don't have that much territorial extension, so we can't think about our agriculture as other countries that have large extensions of terrains and flats and stuff like that. We need to think about it differently.” – Crystal Díaz   “Puerto Rican food is full of history, is complex enough, is flavorful enough, and varied… so I can pull something like this [a culinary farm lodge] up in Puerto Rico.” – Crystal Díaz SHARE this episode with fellow food lovers, cultural storytellers, and moms on a mission to raise rooted kids. Crystal’s insights on local food, identity, and imagination will inspire anyone looking to nourish their family and community from the inside out. Let’s keep our culture alive—one pastel, one sofrito, and one big idea at a time. Supporting Resources:   Website: https://www.elpretextopr.com [https://www.elpretextopr.com]  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elpretextopr [https://www.instagram.com/elpretextopr]  Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/@elpretextopr/ [https://m.facebook.com/@elpretextopr/] Subscribe and Review   Have you subscribed to my podcast for new moms who are entrepreneurs, founders, and creators?  I’d love for you to subscribe if you haven’t yet.    I’d love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unimaginable-wellness-for-aspiring-mom-nonfiction-writers/id1308269140]. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast for writer moms. About Fertile Imagination   You can be a great mom without giving up, shrinking, or hiding your dreams. There’s flexibility in how you pursue anything – your role, your lifestyle, and your personal and professional goals. The limitations on your dreams are waiting to be shattered. It’s time to see and seize what’s beyond your gaze. Let’s bridge your childhood daydreams with your grown-up realities. Imagine skipping with your kids along any path – you, surpassing your milestones while your kids are reaching theirs. There’s only one superpower versatile enough to stretch your thinking beyond what’s been done before: a Fertile Imagination. It’s like kryptonite for impostor syndrome and feeling stuck when it’s alert!    In Fertile Imagination, you will awaken your sleeping source of creative solutions. If you can wake up a toddler or a groggy middle schooler, then together with the stories in this book – featuring 25 guests from my podcast Unimaginable Wellness, proven tools, and personal anecdotes – we will wake up your former playmate: your imagination!  Advance Praise    “You’ll find reality-based strategies for imagining your own imperfect, fulfilling life in this book!” —MARTHA HENNESSEY, former NH State Senator    “Melissa invites the reader into a personal and deep journey about topics that are crucially important to uncover what would make a mom (and dad too) truly happy to work on…even after the kids are in bed.” —KEN HONDA, best-selling author of Happy Money    “This book is a great purchase for moms in every stage of life. Melissa is like a great friend, honest and wise and funny, telling you about her life and asking you to reflect on yours.” —MAUREEN TURNER CAREY, librarian in Austin, TX   TRANSCRIPT   00:00:00 Crystal: Come up with ideas to make it easier for food producers to produce more food because we are in a little island. We don't have that much territorial extension. So we can't think about our agriculture as other countries that have large extensions of terrains and flats and stuff like that. We need to think it differently.  00:00:25 Melissa: Welcome to the Mom Founder Imagination Hub, your weekly podcast to inspire you to dream bigger. Plan out how you're gonna get to that next level in business, find the energy to keep going, and make sure your creative juices are flowing so that this way you get what you really want rather than having to settle. Get ready to discover founders have reimagined entrepreneurship and motherhood.  00:00:47 Melissa: Ever wonder how they do it? Tune in to find out, and stretch yourself by also learning from diverse entrepreneurs who might not be moms, but who have lessons you can tailor about how you can disrupt industries and step way outside of your comfort zone. I believe every mom's superpower is her imagination. In this podcast, I'm gonna give you the mindset, methods, and tools to unleash yours. Sounds good? Then keep listening.  00:01:17 Melissa: So what does sofrito, which is essentially a base of herbs and spices used in Puerto Rican cooking, have to do with reimagining business, food security, and passing along really critical history lessons. Well, for today's guest, it is everything. And if you've ever wondered how to weave your culture, creativity, and calling into one powerful movement, then this episode is the recipe you've been looking for.  00:01:49 Melissa: Welcome to the Mom Founder Imagination Hub. This is your weekly podcast designed to inspire you to dream bigger in your business and your life. Also, to help you find the energy to keep going because how are you going to sustain what's necessary to be big and to keep your imagination flowing so that this way you could feel inspired, lit up like a Christmas tree or Hanukkah candles. I'm your host Melissa Llarena. 00:02:17 Melissa: I'm a mom of three high energy boys. No. They did not get their energy from me. Psyched. They did. I'm also a best selling author of Fertile Imagination and an imagination coach for mom founders who are reimagining what success and motherhood can look like on their own terms, and that's really important.  00:02:34 Melissa: Now, if you've ever stirred a pot of sofrito, you already know this. Right? You know that the blend of flavors tells a deeper story. It tells a story that sometimes has made its way across generations. It preserves a culture, and it does nourish more than just our baby's bellies.  00:02:56 Melissa: So today's guest, I am thrilled to invite Crystal Diaz. Now she's taken the same approach in terms of her business ventures. She's a foodpreneur, culture keeper, I love that, and community builder. She wears four hats and in today's episode we're gonna go through each of those hats. One of which is as the owner of El Pretexto, i.e. The Excuse, a culinary farm lodge in the countryside of Puerto Rico where she serves 100% locally sourced meals and lives her mission every day.  00:03:33 Melissa: She has lots of degrees and an MA in food studies from NYU, which is why if you're watching the video, you could see, I hope, my NYU t-shirt. Hit subscribe if you see it and you love it. Subscribe on YouTube. Hit follow on this podcast. 00:03:53 Melissa: A little bit more about Crystal. She was recognized by Fast Company as one of the most creative people in business in 2022 and was named one of El Nuevo Diaz women of the year in 2023. She's the real deal. In this episode, we're gonna explore how Crystal uses her imagination as her main ingredient, whether it's in terms of the way that she's carving away for Puerto Rico to have its own food centric cultural immersive experience or even by how she decided to commute to NYU from San Juan every single week, which was creative in and of itself, or even in terms of the way that she describes the depth of a very famous Puerto Rican dish.  00:04:43 Melissa: Oh, and side note, I actually have her real life best on the planet, sofrito recipe. My gosh, do not run away, For sure. Check out the sofrito recipe we articulated in this conversation. You're gonna walk away with yummy ideas for how to use your own imagination to nourish your business, your family, and community, and it's gonna be so important even if you're not working in food.  00:05:13 Melissa: So before we dig in, I would appreciate if you hit follow, if you're listening to this on iTunes. Why hit follow? Because every time someone hits follow on iTunes, it tells me that I need to bring more guests with stories like this to the podcast. And I get really excited and when a mom is excited, it is a very good day in her entire home. So go ahead, hit follow. You will absolutely get that dopamine hit that everybody needs or if you're watching this on YouTube, then hit subscribe. I would be so appreciative and again, I will do the dance of joy. Okay. So enjoy the conversation.  00:05:54 Melissa: Crystal Diaz, thank you so much for this conversation on the Mom Founder Imagination hub. We are delighted to have you here. Crystal, just to kind of set off the scenery, why don't you explain to us where you are in Puerto Rico? What's outside your windows? 00:06:10 Crystal: All right. Well, let's… our imagination hub in a car. We are in San Juan, and you drove forty five minutes south, up to the mountains. Now we are in Cayey. I am at El Pretexto, which is also my home, and we are overlooking… we're up in the mountains, 2,600 feet over sea level, overlooking the Caribbean Sea at the south, and all the mountains slowly winding down all the way to the coast. 00:06:43 Crystal: And you will have some crazy chickens surrounding you. In my patio while you are probably sipping a wine or a coffee, depending on the time of the day. Enjoying the view and, surrounded by trees, lush greenery all over the place. And there are gardens on your side, also as well. So you are surrounded definitely by nature and you feel at peace. That's where we are.  00:07:15 Melissa: Oh, okay. Cool. So let's bring that sense of peace to this conversation. I am excited because I'm sure any listener right now who is a mom, has a business, might feel a little frazzled now and again. But right now, for the next thirty minutes, this is a peaceful zone. We are in Puerto Rico right now. 00:07:37 Melissa: Okay. So, Crystal, now I'm gonna ask you an obvious question, as you just described what you are surrounded by in Puerto Rico. But you attended NYU, and I'm just kind of super curious. You could have stayed in New York, let's say. Right? You could have been like this chef at a restaurant in New York City, Michelin star, etcetera, etcetera. But you decided to return home. And so I'm just curious, like, what informed that decision?  00:08:13 Crystal: Well, you will be surprised with my answer because I never left home. I commuted every single week to New York. Coming on to the city, take my classes, back to my home. So for two years, I was traveling every week to New York for one day.  00:08:34 Melissa: Oh my gosh. Yeah. That is so surprising. Okay. So now I’m just curious here. Okay. So you were on a plane. So, usually people complain about their commute. Right? 00:08:48 Crystal: Uh-huh.  00:08:49 Melissa: They have this whole return to work aggravation. Here you are getting on a plane every single week to take courses at NYU. So then let me ask you this other question. So I know that it's a little off track, but now I'm just way curious. Why did it have to be NYU? That's quite the pull.  00:09:13 Crystal: Yeah. Well, my background is in marketing, and I have a BA in Marketing with a Minor in Advertising and Public Relations. Then I worked with a newspaper for fourteen years. So my background is all about business and marketing. Then I did a first master degree here in Puerto Rico, in the University of Puerto Rico, about cultural action and management. And then, I wanted – because at this point, I believe that I am not passionate anymore. I am kind of obsessed with food, and I guess we will get into that later. 00:09:58 Crystal: But, I wanted to learn the policy part of it. And in Puerto Rico, we don't have any program in any of the universities nor public or private, specifically about food, and way less food policies and advocacy and that type of perspective on the food system, which is what I wanted to learn. So that's why I ended up in New York. I decided to do this because it's a direct flight. So it's gonna be a three hours and a half flight going in, then the one hour in the A train until Westport. 00:10:49 Crystal: Even though I know it's intense, it was pretty straightforward. You don't have make a stop then take another plane. And I was studying and reading all my plane hours, so there's no excuse to not complete your assignments, I guess.  00:11:07 Melissa: Yeah. I love that. Okay. So, hey, that is 100% using your imagination because I think a lot of us, myself included, I wouldn't have considered that to be an option in my mind. I still don't. Right? It's gotta be a certain set of circumstances that make that a possibility. But, I love that now that's an idea that we just planted in someone's head. Right? If they really are obsessed. Right?  00:11:35 Crystal: And if you really want to learn about something and you're obsessed about it, there's always ways to learn, to make it happen. And to my point, New York is so expensive that I spend way less money in flight tickets than actually living there.  00:11:56 Melissa: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Okay. So this is really interesting. Okay. So you could have stayed in New York, but you didn't even choose to stay in New York when you were taking classes at NYU. So now you have the whole, like… that's just so that's fascinating, Crystal. You really gobsmacked me right now with that piece of information.  00:12:18 Melissa: So along the same lines of using your imagination and thinking totally out of the box, let me ask you this one question. So, El Pretexto, of course, we'll go into what it is and all of that. But I also wanna understand because on your website, you say that you've traveled the world. Right? So you've seen all these different culinary experiences. And using your imagination and imagining where or how would you imagine Puerto Rico's cuisine fitting into the landscape of world gastro– I can't say the rest of that word, but I know it's a real word.  00:12:57 Crystal: Yes. Well, for me, I love to travel. I am a girl of no luxuries. Right? I don't care about purses or new shoes or jewelry. It's like I don't judge, but I don't care. So where I spend my money and my time, which I can't… money, you can recover it somehow, but time is just one time. You just have every minute that you have.  00:13:27 Crystal: And I like to spend those traveling and getting to know other cultures and exposing myself to other cultures. And I think that those travels have pushed me to understand and appreciate what we have back here at home and also understand the opportunities that we have back here at home. Not everybody is doing it perfectly, but you can definitely learn how it is done in other places. And I'm talking generally. Right? Depending on what you are interested.  00:14:01 Crystal: But you always learn of how the world do things in other places. So, I in my case, I love food and I try to expose myself, not only to eating in good restaurants or good food, but I love to go to markets. I even go to supermarkets every time I travel. I like to visit farms and I noticed, especially in Mexico, you can see this – Peru is developing this a lot and Italy has it all set. 00:14:40 Melissa: On lockdown.  00:14:41 Crystal: But you have these culinary experiences where you get to… expose to their cuisine, with a local chef and and you go to their farmers' markets and you get the whole country but with a special focus in food. And I was like, “You know what? Puerto Rican food is full of history, is complex enough, is flavorful enough, and varied so I can pull something like this up in Puerto Rico.” So that's how one of our offerings about the curated food experiences came to be because I was sure that somebody will have the curiosity to get to know Puerto Rico from its food.  00:15:33 Crystal: So that's how I got into there. And I think that because I am obsessed with the fact that Puerto Rico imports 90% of everything that we eat, I am then focused on cherish and enhance and share that 10% what it can be if we actually put a lot of effort into grow that 10% into 20%, let's say.  00:16:08 Melissa: That's interesting. So okay. So, I mean, I'm not cynical, but, in my opinion, I kind of believe that the person that controls food source kinda controls a lot. And that's not fantastic. And so I'm just wondering from a policy perspective and as you think about this share of stomach or however it's really considered, are you also part of that conversation too? Like, are you actively advocating for that too?  00:16:45 Crystal: Yes. Yes. I always say I have a couple of hats for all those also thinking that you only have to do one thing and one thing only. If you want to do one thing and one thing only, that's okay. But in my case, I am focused on food, but I try to deal with it from different perspectives. So I have four hats.  00:17:09 Crystal: And one of my hats, specifically works with food policy advocacy. And we try to understand the local food policies that are in place, understanding what programs work, what programs doesn't work, and then trying to make it as… to come up with ideas to make it easier for food producers to produce more food. 00:17:41 Crystal: Because we are in a little island. We don't have that much territorial extension, so we can't think about our agriculture as other countries that have large extensions of terrains and flats and stuff like that. We need to think it differently. And I am not against importation. We all have globalized diets, and we love olive oil, and we can't produce that in Puerto Rico. And we love wine, and we can't produce that in Puerto Rico.  00:18:16 Crystal: So it's not like, all the way 100%. That's not what I mean. But definitely, we should aim to have, let's say, half of our stomach-share full of food that is produced locally. Not only because of its nutritional value, but also because it means economic growth and development for our island and our local communities. So every dollar that you spend on food… somebody might be hearing us while they are eating something.  00:18:55 Crystal: So you imagine whatever you're eating right now, let's say it cost you $1. It depends on where the ingredients came from, that dollar went to that place. It depends on where it was processed, part of that dollar went to that place. And then if you bought it in the supermarket or if you bought it in Amazon, to who you gave that share of that dollar.  00:22 Crystal: So with every single meal that we do, with every single snack, everything that we eat, you are impacting economies. And if you want to support your local communities and you want to see them, everybody having a better life, you might want to spend that dollar closer home and making sure that all of the ingredients that are on that food are closer to home so that money stays closer to home. And that's how I see it. 00:19:58 Crystal: How do we make that that share of that dollar that we as consumers have the power to choose where it goes. And, by the way, there are some parts that we have the power and some part we don't have the power. I understand that. But how do we make an effort in whatever way we can to stay as close as possible to our home.  00:20:24 Melissa: So I think you said that… was that one out of your four hats? 00:20:28 Crystal: Yes.  00:20:29 Melissa: What are the other three?  00:20:30 Crystal: Well, El Pretexto, which is a bed and breakfast, is our Puerto Rico's first and only culinary farm lodge. This is my home, but I also welcome guests here. So El Pretexto is my second one. I'm the co-founder of PRoduct, which is a digital marketplace that connects local food producers with consumers directly. We're trying to shorten that food chain and make it easier and convenient to get local products on your home. We deliver island wide. So that's my third hat. And then I have a super small, digital, marketing agency with another partner, and it's all focused on food and beverage. So everything is about food but from different perspectives.  00:21:25 Melissa: Yeah. That's so interesting because it's almost like you have a little supply chain kind of going on. Right? It's like we've got a lot going on, but it's all related to eating, which is essential. But I think it's smart. I mean, you have your little niche there. Huge niche. We keep being hungry, so you're in a good spot, I would say.  00:21:49 Melissa: So let me understand this idea about food and how you saw it as an opportunity for Puerto Rico because it has a rich history. Right? So me as a mom, for example, I'm second generation from a Puerto Rican perspective. As a mom, for me, passing down culture is urgent. It's almost on the verge of extinction, I feel, because of where I am generationally. Like, I'm, quote, unquote, “amongst people that I know I'm not,” quote, unquote, “supposed to know Spanish.” I'm not, quote, unquote, “supposed to literally make rice and beans every day,” which by the way, I don't have to. But my goodness, my children really like their rice and beans. And I am so lazy. So that is all I make because I just want one pot.  00:22:40 Melissa: But anyway, so culture, food, that's the one way that I pass it along. Right? You are what you eat. So guess what? My kids are Puerto Rican and Cuban, at this stage. Yes. They have Dominican in them, but, hey, that's just my culinary preference. So tell me about this idea of culture, Puerto Rican culture. And I would be super curious if you could maybe choose an example of a cuisine or food and just kind of walk us through how that kind of expresses culture or maybe there's a story behind it that is unique to Puerto Rico.  00:23:20 Crystal: Well, for me and my mentor used to be doctor Cruz Miguel Ortiz Cuadra, which was the only food historian in Puerto Rico. He passed two years ago, but I learned so much from him and pretty much I was his daughter. He inherit me all his library, which I have here, home. And, so we discussed this a lot. And I think that we both shared that the ultimate dish that represents the Puerto Rican culture will be the pasteles. For those that doesn't know what a pastel is, it's a tamal like preparation. But the tamales are corn based and they use corn leaves to wrap it up. The pasteles puertorriqueños is made out of a dough made out of root vegetables mainly. 00:24:20 Crystal: It will have bananas and plantains that we got from our African in [inaudible]. It will have pumpkin, which were already with our Taino peoples here in America. It will have yautia, which also was here in Puerto Rico. And then, it will have some pork stew that was brought by the Spanish people. So you have in one dish our full heritage of the three cultures that have conformed the Puerto Rican-ness in just one dish.  00:25:01 Crystal: And then that works too will use, what is the ultimate base of flavor of the Puerto Rican cuisine, which is the sofrito. And the sofrito itself also is a blend of African, Spanish, and Taino ingredients, but it's a bricolage of flavors and smells that then go into the stew that then is used to make the pastel. And the pastel is also representative of the most authentic Puerto Rican soul because el pastel is wrapped as a gift.  00:25:40 Crystal: And if you were poor and there was a lot of poverty in Puerto Rico at some – we still have, but there used to be a lot of poverty back in the days. If you didn't have any resources, monetary resources to gift things, you will make pasteles with the things that are on your patio. You will have that growing up in your patio, in your garden, and then you will do pasteles, and you will gift that to your adult, kids, to your sisters, to your brothers.  00:26:13 Crystal: And so because it's – now we have technology, and now we can use food processors and so on. But back in the day, you had to grate that by hand. So if you have that gift, I am not only gifting you my talent and the products that I grow in my patio, but I'm also gifting my time. So it's a very meaningful way of telling someone that you really care about them. 00:26:42 Crystal: And that's all about Puerto Ricans. We care. We care a lot. We want to share everything that we have. And all the visitors that we have, they all can say that Puerto Ricans are always nice to them. Even if we have people that doesn't speak so much English, they will take you to whatever place you wanted to go, trying to understand you and enjoying our island. So I think that the pastel is representative of all the goodness of the Puerto Ricans.  00:27:16 Melissa: Let's pause for a second. If you've been nodding your head all along while listening to Crystal talk about food as fuel for imagination, then I wanna put this on your radar. My book, Fertile Imagination is for any mom who's ever thought, “I know I'm capable of more, but I don't know where to start.”  00:27:39 Melissa: And as one Amazon reviewer said this of my book, Fertile Imagination, which is all about maximizing your superpower to make your maximum impact, She says this, “It's a non judgmental kick in the butt to start valuing your whole selves and to create a new reality where we combine motherhood with our big dreams. Whether you're chasing an idea during nap time or whispering your big vision,” this is hilarious, “into a spatula, then this book is your creative permission slip.”  00:28:17 Melissa: You're gonna hear stories, especially if you like this conversation with Crystal. You're gonna hear a story as well from a podcast guest that I had here who is a James Beard award winning chef, Gabriele Corcos. And you're gonna learn about how he has really latched on to this idea of novelty as his way to explore new categories of interest in his one beautiful life. So I want to just be sure that you realize that this conversation is the beginning of the process. I wanted you to see through Crystal how if your imagination was reawakened, you can start to reimagine how you approach your own life. And I think that's important.  00:29:04 Melissa: But then the book, Fertile Imagination, goes on and adds some tools that you can actually use to incorporate your imagination into your one divine life. And here's the thing, because you could use your imagination from any place you are in the world, you won't have to hop on a plane and go to any place. You can actually just close your eyes and replug in to the little girl that you once were who had all these beautiful ideas that you wanted to play out in the world and that's what I want for you. 00:29:41 Melissa: So here's what I have for you. Just go ahead to fertileideas.com. If you're driving, if you're running, if you're walking, you could do this in a bit. Just go to fertileideas.com and you could download a free chapter of my book, Fertile Imagination. What's really amazing about that chapter is that that chapter basically takes you to a place where you can go and travel back in time, to that moment when you were most free, to that moment where you had the world totally ahead of you and you were imagining what you wanted for your one divine life. That's what I did when I got on stage at the Magnet Theater in New York City 100 years ago now, so it feels. 00:30:25 Melissa: But I talk about that moment for me in that chapter that you can get for free right now on fertileideas.com. So back to the show. Again, shop the book. This episode is brought to you by Fertile Imagination, every mom's superpower. Go to fertileideas.com. Grab the free chapter. Why not? What are you gonna do? Have an amazing time reading a free chapter? That's the way to set yourself up for success for this summer. All right. Enjoy the rest of the conversation.  00:30:55 Melissa: I've never ever heard of un pastel in that way. I'm just like… it's fascinating because I also think it's… maybe it's just me, but I feel like there's a bit of an acquired taste to it too. Like, for me. Right? When I think about a pastel and I compare it to a tamal, I do not think about a Mexican tamal at all. I think about Cuban. I think about– 00:31:26 Crystal: Yeah. Sure. 00:31:28 Melissa: And for me, it's really fascinating to hear the story behind the pastel in the sense that it's very, very comprehensive. You could… I mean, I bet you there's probably books already. Or maybe you're gonna write a book. Maybe you got a fourth – a fifth hat to wear, right? You can write about pasteles. I mean, it's not a bad gig.  00:31:49 Melissa: But I think it's really interesting. And I think it's a testament to the fact that irrespective of where someone travels to the depth with which they can get to know and appreciate a culture is almost unlimited in a way, right? It's… like, for me and my family, I am not a Disney World person. But I've been to Disney World because it's kinda like, “Oh, we just go to Disney World and I have three kids.” And you got a cat. That's a little bit of a cat. She's got a cat. If you're watching this on video, you see her big and fluffy cat. Is your cat Puerto Rican though? 00:32:29 Crystal: She is Puerto Rican. She is a sato cat.  00:32:31 Melissa: Aw.  00:32:32 Crystal: She's a rescue one.  00:32:34 Melissa: So cute. She probably eats pasteles because she's got meat on her. She's a solid cat. But, yeah, just the depth with which you could understand a culture, what I'm hearing from you, Crystal, it can absolutely include history and and careful attention to the food that you're eating. Right? I think about just everywhere that I've traveled and every time I've eaten food, it's kind of like there's almost a story or a reason for why something is on a plate, and it's not always superficial. It's not just labor profile. It could have to do with political conversations. It could have to do with whoever decided that that food would make its way to that region.  00:33:27 Melissa: But let me ask you this question then. So just to kind of close-up this conversation on something that I think is very practical, I'm gonna ask you a very selfish question. Okay, so I'm on the quest for the perfect sofrito. I'm gonna tell you what I do for my sofrito. So it's my ritual on Sundays. I take all the peppers that I find, red, green, yellow, and even orange because it comes in that pack. I also then buy cilantro. I'm in Texas, so let's just be mindful I'm limited in some of the things I can get.  00:34:05 Melissa: Also because I'm a health conscious mom, I put bone broth in the blender so that this way things can blend. Right? I put onions. I put garlic. I put some oregano. That is what's in my sofrito on a good day. Melissa's like, “Okay. I am ready to make a sofrito.” How can I enhance that sofrito, or how do you teach people that visit El Pretexto how to make their own sofrito?  00:34:39 Crystal: Well, sofrito is one thing as the pasteles. Right? Everybody have their own recipe, and everybody says that their mom's sofrito is the best. Right? [inaudible] My mom's sofrito is the best. So that's the one that I do. And I'm happy to share the recipe for you because I have it written.  00:35:03 Crystal: But there are two schools of Sofrito to begin with. The school that says you do your Sofrito on a Sunday and you don't touch it… you don't do another Sofrito batch up until that one is gone in one or two weeks. And then you have my mom's school, which is you do your sofrito every time that you're gonna cook. 00:35:28 Melissa: Gotcha. Right.  00:35:31 Crystal: Obviously, that's nice for those that are retired and have all the time in the world. I do it that way. I'm not retired, but it's because I have a– 00:35:40 Melissa: That’s your job. 00:35:41 Crystal: That's how she does it. And I don't want to, to your point, I want to continue her way of doing things. So, there are onions. We don't use all the colors of the bell peppers. We actually use cubanelle pepper. Onion cubanelle, then we will have the aji dulce, the sweet little pepper we need. We will have the cilantro, but we will also have culantro. [inaudible]. Yeah? And then, we will have garlic in it, a little bit of oregano, and pretty much that's the base. 00:36:29 Crystal: So depending on who you ask, there are people that will omit having the onion, and they will do it when they are cooking, if they're doing a batch. And then you will have people that will go all the way in with a lot of culantro in it, so it has that strong flavor to it. My mom's is more balanced in how much goes of each little thing in there. And we also use the bone broth, but not to blend the sofrito, but to stew the rice. If it's gonna be a stew rice, we will do bone broth instead of water with the rice. 00:37:18 Crystal: And then, the beans, we like them vegetarians. We don't use any hams or meat cuts into it. But, again, that's us. There are people that say that the most flavorful ones is with a piece of ham in it and whatever. But, I like… my mom's and mine are vegetarian. And my cat starts again.  00:37:43 Crystal: But, sofrito is is very personal. You know? It's part of how your family has done it. And as I told earlier, it’s also a blend of these three cultures that goes into it. A lot of cultures have mirepoix or other type of base of flavors into their food and this is ours. So you have to make it yours but also learn that there is a lot of history into it. It's not something that we do because we do it. There is a lot of history into it. But, yeah, happy to share my mom's one with you. 00:38:29 Melissa: Yeah. For sure. Crystal, this was so amazing. So I would say around now, a lot of individuals are planning their summer holiday trips and vacations and all of that. So, maybe you can share where people can learn more about you, can learn more about El Pretexto if that's an option to them to kind of explore, and just follow your journey. 00:38:53 Crystal: Yeah. Sure. Well, a friendly reminder that it is an adults only project. So this might be your chance to… El Pretexto actually translates to “The Excuse.” So this might be your excuse to having your parents take care of the kids and hop down to the island and have a little bit of a honeymoon. But, El Pretexto, you can find it at elprotextopr.com. We're also in social media @elprotextopr in Facebook and Instagram.  00:39:30 Crystal: There you will meet our chickens and photos of our garden and our harvest and the breakfast, and maybe you get a little bit hungry. In our website, you will find different options because you could come for a weekend or you could come for a weekday stay, but also you could come for these curated food experiences, which are in very specific dates around the year. We also have dinners, farm to table dinners in our property. We invite guest chefs to cook dinners, around the year.  00:40:08 Crystal: And, also, I take people to other places in the countryside to enjoy a beautiful lunch, but getting to know another piece of countryside around the island. So, El Pretexto is no other thing than the celebration of the beautiful diverse countryside of Puerto Rico. And you can check all the information there. So, yeah, feel free to follow me there.  00:40:37 Melissa: Thank you so much, Crystal. This has been amazing. Have an awesome rest of your day. Keep enjoying the peace and serenity of the mountains and the Caribbean Sea and all the beauty that you see outside your window. Thank you so much for this conversation.  00:40:53 Crystal: Thank you. Thank you for the invitation.  00:40:56 Melissa: So what's your version of a sofrito? Right? Let's take it out of the kitchen and into your home office. What sort of things for you can you put together to create your next big idea, whether it's something for business, something for your personal life or something for your family this very summer. I am so excited to have had Crystal Diaz for this conversation because I think she's inspiring all of us. She's giving us a good idea of all the ways that we could color our own individual rainbows.  00:41:33 Melissa: At the same time, I want this to just remind you that your imagination could be stirred into anything, right? Especially like tonight's dinner. So catch up on Tuesdays on the Mom Founder Imagination Hub and until then, keep cooking up ideas that only you can serve. I honestly think there's a place in this world for imaginations. And irrespective of AI and technology, at the end of the day, it's only as good as the person behind the computer screen, our prompts, our ideas, the way that we decide to use these resources.  00:42:10 Melissa: And that is the best case for you to actually keep your imagination going and playing with it. So thank you for this conversation. And again, if you are interested in learning more about the book, just go to fertileideas.com. Have an amazing rest of your day, moms.

Are these 5 resume mistakes secretly slashing your shot at a $250K marketing role in 2025—while others snatch the offers you deserve? In this must-listen episode, Melissa Llarena—career coach to Fortune 500 execs—unveils the blunders sinking corporate moms and their partners in today’s brutal job market. Don’t get caught out—tune in and snag a free fix before March 21st! Episode Description: Struggling to land a top-tier marketing or advertising role in 2025—or know someone who is? Melissa Llarena, host since 2017 (with interviews like Beth Comstock and Gary Vee under her belt), dives back to her 2011 roots to help corporate pros thrive. After 13 years coaching agency leaders and execs—pre-Fertile Imagination fame—she’s uncovered 5 resume mistakes tanking even the sharpest marketers. Burned-out CMOs, blindsided managers, and guilt-juggling leaders are scoring 15/60 on resumes when 50+ is the winning mark. In this episode, learn: * The 5 resume killers—missed revenue wins, weak storytelling, and more—costing you big. * How networking strategies and AI smarts flip flops into $250K offers. * Why the Marketing Leader Scorecard (free till March 21st) is your DIY ticket to 50+. Melissa’s also booking interview preparation services—think Last-Minute Interview Prep for video interviews and in-person interviews, or her 9-week deep dive with multi-stakeholder interviewing strategies, cross-cultural interviews, and interview presentation support. Ready to shine? Grab her free tool and fix those mistakes now! Free Download: Snag the Marketing Leader Scorecard at https://bit.ly/mlscore [https://bit.ly/mlscore]—free through March 21st, 2025. Score yourself across five key areas and see if you’re competitive—or leaving $250K on the table. Bonus Reward: Share this episode with a friend who’s struggling (partner, husband, colleague), then email Melissa at melissa@melissallarena.com [melissa@melissallarena.com] with “I forwarded to [Friend’s Name]”. You’ll score Boost Your Interview Answers—a PDF purchased by hundreds, loaded with proven tips to ace interviews. Plus, the first 5 forwarders get a free 15-minute resume or pitch review—booked by March 31! Keywords: Interview preparation services, interview presentation support, multi-stakeholder interviewing strategies, video interviews, in-person interviews, cross-cultural interviews, storytelling, networking strategies, resume tweaks, 2025 job market, marketing resume mistakes. Connect: * Book a call for VIP accelerators: www.melissallarena.com/sessions [www.melissallarena.com/sessions] * Follow Melissa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissallarena/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissallarena/] * Share this episode—help a marketer win in 2025!   interview preparation services,interview presentation support,multi-stakeholder interviewing strategies,video interviews,in-person interviews,cross-cultural interviews,storytelling,networking strategies,resume tweaks,2025 job market,marketing resume mistakes,job search 2025,career coaching,marketing careers,corporate moms,$250K jobs,AI job market,Fortune 500 careers,Melissa Llarena,Mom Founder Imagination Hub

Landing Your Dream Marketing Role in the #RemoteEra Most marketing execs are getting ghosted in 2025—but the ones scoring Director to CMO roles are doing way more. I’ll show you the exact moves that land $250K calls, even remotely. Hi, I’m Melissa Llarena, and welcome back to the podcast. For over a decade, I’ve helped ambitious marketing executives and advertising leaders land their dream careers through my global job search coaching firm, Career Outcomes Matter, launched in 2011. I’m back, better than ever, with strategies that work right now—and today, we’re tackling how you can stand out in this cutthroat #RemoteEra or #Hybrid job market. Let’s get real—this isn’t your average job advice. In 2025, landing those rare, high-stakes marketing roles isn’t about just sending a resume, cover letter, or even thoughtfully updating applications. It’s about outworking and out-strategizing the competition. Let me ask you something to set the stage… Would YOU have stayed on the Titanic, knowing you had a chance to get off before the last lifeboat was filled? Hoping you’d survive icy waters isn’t smart—and neither is letting your marketing career sink when you could turn it around. You wouldn’t watch a campaign fail if you knew how to save it, right? The same goes for your career, especially in today’s #RemoteEra or #Hybrid world. As a high-performing marketer or job seeker, you’re in a race—and it’s tougher than ever to land Director-level and above roles, especially if you’re a working parent or world-class aunt eyeing flexibility. But here’s the truth I’ve seen and helped my clients achieve: the marketers getting interviews and calls in 2025 aren’t just applying—they’re bringing market analysis, SOPs, portfolios, and 90–100 day plans that blow hiring leaders away. That’s how you prove you’re worth multiple rounds and a salary at the top end of $130K–$285K+. Imagine cutting your job search short, writing that resignation letter, and avoiding a layoff. That’s the edge I give my clients—and I’m sharing it with you today.” Let’s get specific—here are four high-level marketing roles I know will attract top talent in 2025, where the differentiator is the candidate who brings the goods. These are the exact deliverables I’ve helped my clients create, present, and land with, along with quick pro tips based on what impresses hiring leaders: * Headspace - Principal Brand Strategist, $130K–$183K base: Bring a one-page analysis of the mental health ecosystem—why Headspace beats Calm or other apps—and show how branding creates a utilization halo effect. * Director of Marketing, Advisory Practice at Acquisition.com, Las Vegas, NV (Hybrid), $150K–$180K base: Prove you can lead with praise, not punishment, and explain how you’d contribute to Alex’s $1B-plus vision in 36 months or less. * SVP, Marketing Enablement at Warner Music Group, $210K–$285K base: Bring a framework showing how you’d lead a full marketing service provider audit. * Chief of Staff, Marketing at IBM (Salary not posted): Dive into CMO Clay’s vision—check his talks—and understand how McKinsey trains leaders, since you’ll likely compete with McKinsey alums or IBM insiders. *All roles can be found on LinkedIn. They are live as of March 3rd, 2025.* These moves are what’s working now to land $285K calls, even remotely. That’s the ‘doing more’ that gets you noticed in 2025. How do I know this works? I launched Career Outcomes Matter in 2011 to coach global marketing leaders like you, wrote Fertile Imagination—a #1 Amazon bestseller in 2023—to inspire storytelling for dream careers, and I’ve hosted icons like Beth Comstock and GaryVee on this podcast early on. Recently, I earned my meditation certification after a two-year program to support clients through high-stress transitions. I’ve dedicated my life to learning and teaching the art of relationship-building—and now, I’m back with strategies that give you the edge in this brutal job market. Listen, if you’re a serious marketing executive ready to stop getting ghosted and land your dream $150K+ role—or boost your income by 25%—I’m here to help. I’m enrolling a max of 10 ambitious marketing leaders into my 9-week group coaching program, starting this Sunday, March 9, 2025. It’s a 2-week risk-free trial, and if you join by March 31st, I’ll personally rewrite your resume or LinkedIn profile for free—that’s a $1,500 value. Book a 15-minute job search fit session with me today at www.melissallarena.com/sessions [http://www.melissallarena.com/sessions]. I’ve got tons of slots open in the next 48-hours, and I’d love to see if this is the right fit for you—or anyone you know who’s frustrated with their boss, worried about layoffs, stalled on promotions, or feeling stuck. Let’s turn your career into the success story it’s meant to be. I’m Melissa Llarena, and I can’t wait to help you win. A client was on a sinking ship in the energy sector and here's what she said about our partnership.... From A Sinking Ship Company in The Energy Sector To A Remote Strategic Partnerships Role In A Top Tier Business School I did get the offer as you know = great result!! The back-and-forth collaboration on interview questions and answers was powerful for me. I liked that you kept me accountable. I would have dragged my feet a lot longer. By investing in coaching this made me cut through my excuses and motivated me to go above and beyond by preparing for an interview 10x more than what I have ever done before. I got my dream job and the hiring manager told me how impressed everyone was and how my performance was heads above the other candidates who were MORE experienced in the function. My work is quite fun. It's rewarding work, fantastic people, ramping up some new skills and the lifestyle is to die for. Thank you, Melissa for our partnership." A 20+ year communications professional's message about what it takes to land a dream marketing job - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7otOG-i8Y [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7otOG-i8Y] A former Volvo employee in China lands a role in the U.S. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2vmjc0cTcg] making more money than the role originally called for - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2vmjc0cTcg A former tech executive who landed in a non-profit YET got a bump in pay - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jswvB9Km6J4 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jswvB9Km6J4] Let's hop on a 15-minute job search fit call today: https://www.melissallarena.com/sessions/ [https://www.melissallarena.com/sessions/] SHARE this episode with your family and friends who are currently in the job market or they keep telling you they should be out there hunting. Until next Tuesday…

Imagine crushing your biggest business goal in just 30 days—without the burnout or mom guilt. What if you could get a $3K coaching program for free, designed exclusively for mom entrepreneurs like you? In this episode, Melissa Llarena, #1 Amazon bestselling author and mom of three, unveils an exclusive pilot program you won’t want to miss—but only if you act by Friday! What You’ll Discover: * How 15 established business-owning moms can join Melissa’s 30-Day Mompreneur Momentum Sprint—a $3,000 value, 100% free (this time only!). * The secret sauce: a 30-Day Momentum Planner to laser-focus your energy, 22 live Q&A sessions (March 3-April 1, M-F 1pm CST), plus imagination tools, mindfulness hacks, and sales strategies tailored for moms. * Why Jessica, a fellow mom, raves: “It infuses play and creativity while keeping it real about mom life and self-care.” * The catch? Only 15 spots, and the application deadline is February 28, 2025, 5pm Central. How to Apply: Head to https://bit.ly/fertilecohort [https://bit.ly/fertilecohort] now. Fill out the short app on the left (name, email, website, 50 words on why you’re a fit). You’ll get the planner just for applying, and if selected, next steps on March 1st. Don’t wait—spots are limited! Who’s This For? Mom business owners ready to level up, craving accountability, and done grinding alone. Not for the toe-dippers—this is for the committed. Take Action: Apply by Friday at https://bit.ly/fertilecohort [https://bit.ly/fertilecohort]. By April 1st, you could have real progress on your biggest goal—calmer, recharged, and guilt-free. Go now! ****   Mompreneur Business coaching for moms Free coaching program 30-day business sprint Mom entrepreneur Business goals for moms Accountability for entrepreneurs Mindfulness for business owners Sales strategies for moms Melissa Llarena Mom Founder Imagination Hub Fertile Imagination Business planner for moms Cohort for mom entrepreneurs Application deadline February 28, 2025

How do toys shape who we become? Today, I sit down with a fascinating toy historian Chris Byrne who reveals the hidden power of play - from how different toys develop everything from relationship skills to problem - solving abilities.    We explore why true play isn't about reaching an end goal, but about embracing the pure joy of the journey. Whether you're looking to understand the art of playing alongside your kids or giving them space to explore independently, this episode will transform how you think about playtime. Join us for a rich conversation about rediscovering the magic that happens when we give ourselves permission to simply play.   After exploring the art of play with our toy historian today, I want to share something powerful with you. My book Fertile Imagination tackles a crucial truth: we can't guide our children toward imagination if we've lost touch with our own. I'll show you the exact framework I used to reawaken and strengthen this superpower – the same one that transformed both my life and my three sons'. If you're ready to rediscover your creativity and childlike zest for life, grab your copy now: https://bit.ly/fertilebook [https://bit.ly/fertilebook]     In this episode, you will hear:    * Play is a process, not a means to an end, and embracing it can reduce stress. * Imagination influences every decision we make. * Playing with toys helps kids develop problem-solving and relationship skills. * Adults benefit from play too—it fosters creativity, joy, and innovation. * Letting children lead playtime strengthens their confidence and creativity. * Kids learn by doing, and unstructured play is vital for their development. * In corporate settings, a playful mindset can unlock new ideas and innovation. * Fear of failure limits creativity—kids don’t judge play, and neither should we.   This episode is brought to you by:    Fertile Imagination: A Guide For Stretching Every Mom’s Superpower For Maximum Impact – My book is available as a hard cover, paperback, and also as an audiobook. If you are on the go and wish to quickly jot down where you can purchase the book then head to: https://bit.ly/fertilebook [https://bit.ly/fertilebook].    If however you want to grab the audio version then head to the show notes to click the direct Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Fertile-Imagination-Stretching-Superpower-Maximum/dp/B0CK2ZSMLB [https://www.amazon.com/Fertile-Imagination-Stretching-Superpower-Maximum/dp/B0CK2ZSMLB]   About Chris Bryne   Chris Byrne has spent over 35 years in the toy industry, holding major marketing and creative roles before launching Byrne Communications, a consultancy specializing in product development, strategic planning, and marketing. A passionate advocate for the power of play, he has studied its impact on child development and creativity across industries. He has appeared on major media outlets worldwide, sharing insights on toys, play, and innovation. He also co-hosts The Playground Podcast, diving deep into the toy industry’s past, present, and future.   SHARE this episode with fellow moms and entrepreneurs who want to bring more creativity into their lives! Chris’s insights on play, imagination, and innovation are a must-listen for anyone balancing motherhood and career growth. Let’s embrace play, rediscover joy, and inspire the next generation! Supporting Resources:   Website: https://www.thetoyguy.com/ [https://www.thetoyguy.com/]  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thetoyguy/ [https://www.instagram.com/thetoyguy/]  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thetoyguyofficial/ [https://www.facebook.com/thetoyguyofficial/] The Playground Podcast: Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/0ssbexKPOvWAEqPR2NdcbK] & Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-playground-podcast/id1460620985] Subscribe and Review   Have you subscribed to my podcast for new moms who are entrepreneurs, founders, and creators?  I’d love for you to subscribe if you haven’t yet.    I’d love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unimaginable-wellness-for-aspiring-mom-nonfiction-writers/id1308269140]. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast for writer moms. About Fertile Imagination   You can be a great mom without giving up, shrinking, or hiding your dreams. There’s flexibility in how you pursue anything – your role, your lifestyle, and your personal and professional goals. The limitations on your dreams are waiting to be shattered. It’s time to see and seize what’s beyond your gaze. Let’s bridge your childhood daydreams with your grown-up realities. Imagine skipping with your kids along any path – you, surpassing your milestones while your kids are reaching theirs. There’s only one superpower versatile enough to stretch your thinking beyond what’s been done before: a Fertile Imagination. It’s like kryptonite for impostor syndrome and feeling stuck when it’s alert!    In Fertile Imagination, you will awaken your sleeping source of creative solutions. If you can wake up a toddler or a groggy middle schooler, then together with the stories in this book – featuring 25 guests from my podcast Unimaginable Wellness, proven tools, and personal anecdotes – we will wake up your former playmate: your imagination!  Advance Praise    “You’ll find reality-based strategies for imagining your own imperfect, fulfilling life in this book!” —MARTHA HENNESSEY, former NH State Senator    “Melissa invites the reader into a personal and deep journey about topics that are crucially important to uncover what would make a mom (and dad too) truly happy to work on…even after the kids are in bed.” —KEN HONDA, best-selling author of Happy Money    “This book is a great purchase for moms in every stage of life. Melissa is like a great friend, honest and wise and funny, telling you about her life and asking you to reflect on yours.” —MAUREEN TURNER CAREY, librarian in Austin, TX           TRANSCRIPT 00:00:00 Chris: I really believe is what we play with as kids really becomes, we become a lot of that. And we had a basement in our house that had a room in it, that had a window in it. And my brothers and I would create puppet shows. And we would do that. And we would just go round up all the kids in the neighborhood and say, you have to watch this puppet show. And they did. I mean, they were good. But it was really about storytelling. It was about connection. It was about making things up and just feeling very alive in that moment, feeling very connected to who I was at that time and being able to share that with other people. 00:00:43 Melissa: Welcome to the Mom Founder Imagination Hub, your weekly podcast to inspire you to dream bigger. Plan out how you're going to get to that next level in business, find the energy to keep going, and make sure your creative juices are flowing so that this way you get what you really want rather than having to settle. Get ready to discover how mom founders have reimagined entrepreneurship and motherhood. Ever wonder how they do it? Tune in to find out. 00:01:09 Melissa: And stretch yourself by also learning from diverse entrepreneurs who might not be moms, but who have lessons you can tailor about how you can disrupt industries and step way outside of your comfort zone. I believe every mom's superpower is her imagination. In this podcast, I'm gonna give you the mindset, methods, and tools to unleash yours. Sounds good? Then keep listening. 00:01:36 Melissa: So how do toys shape who we become? Have you ever asked yourself that question as you are giving your child a toy? If that toy is going to influence their career choices ahead or the way that they are, their character. Today, I sat down with a fascinating toy historian, Chris Byrne. 00:02:04 Melissa: Now he is a 35 year plus veteran of the toy industry. He's held major marketing and creative positions earlier in his life. And he's appeared on TV talking about toys and play in the US and around the world. He's even been on the Live with Kelly and Mark show as a regular guest. And he has his own podcast, by the way, the Playground Podcast. 00:02:29 Melissa: So, Chris reveals today the hidden power of play, from how different toys develop everything from relationship skills to problem-solving abilities. We also explore why true play isn't about reaching an end goal, it's about embracing the pure joy of the journey. So, whether you're looking to understand the art of playing alongside your kids or giving them some space to explore independently, this episode is going to change how you think about playtime. So I encourage you to join us for this rich conversation about rediscovering the magic that happens when we give ourselves permission to just play. 00:03:10 Melissa: Okay, so before we jump into the conversation, I wanna just let you know that after the conversation, I would invite you to explore the art of play with my book, Fertile Imagination. Why is that relevant to you as a mom? Here's what I want you to know. It's really hard to guide our kids toward imagination if we've secretly lost touch with our own. So in my book, Fertile Imagination, I share with you the exact framework that I used in order to reawaken my imagination, play with my imagination, stretch my imagination, and strengthen what I believe to be our greatest superpower. 00:03:56 Melissa: So this framework is super simple to follow. It is guided and it is also provided in lots of really cool journaling question prompts in the book. And it's gonna be the same exact process that I used in order to really get back in touch with that little childlike spirit that all of us has, but maybe we forgot we have held quite tightly close to our hearts. 00:04:22 Melissa: So, I invite you to go ahead, rediscover your creativity, and see if you can find your childlike zest for life. Because I really believe that it's hard to teach our kids things that we may have forgotten are natural to us, and maybe came naturally to us when we were younger. So enjoy the conversation. The link to the book is available in the show notes where you're listening to this. Let me read the actual link so that you can learn more about my book, Fertile Imagination. 00:04:53 Melissa: It is a bit.ly link. So it is bit.ly/fertilebook. You can absolutely grab a copy right there of Fertile Imagination. If you wanted the audio version that is available exclusively via Amazon. So go ahead and check out the show notes for that link. Thank you again. And I hope you enjoy the conversation and let me know what you think at the end, I will share with you my top three takeaways that you can apply to your immediate mom life. Thank you so much. 00:05:28 Melissa: Chris Byrne. I am so excited to have you here on the Mom Founder Imagination Hub. How are you? 00:05:35 Chris: I am very well. I'm so excited to be with you. Thank you so much for the invitation. 00:05:40 Melissa: I couldn't get enough of your TED Talk. I was like, oh my gosh, he's not just a toy historian. He's like a toy psychologist. I loved it. I loved it. So welcome to the show. Chris, I want to just start with the big, big question on my mind. Help me understand from your perspective, decades in the industry, learning about the art of play, like what is an imagination to you and do you consider it a superpower? 00:06:12 Chris: Well, I absolutely consider our imagination our superpower. It is the one thing that, really one of the many things that really define us as human beings. Nothing happens in our world that doesn't start in the imagination. It can be, what do I want for lunch? Or what do I want to be when I grow up? Or should I marry this person? Or should I have children? 00:06:34 Chris: Or whatever it is because we begin in the imagination and other kinds of animals, you just put food in front of them and they eat, it's instinctual. But for us, it's not- as humans, it's not just instinctual. We literally create our worlds on a daily basis and that starts in the imagination. 00:06:54 Melissa: I agree. And it's interesting because as a fully grown adult, I would say that when I was writing my book, Fertile Imagination, and I see it as like a superpower for moms who are technically adults. I feel like it's a topic that is seldom discussed amongst adults. Like, is this something that you are noticing? Or maybe, you know, people that have that childlike quality because of your industry? What's your take on imagination, the art of play, and being an adult? 00:07:30 Chris: Well, I think all of those are really critical to who we are, because play is really the act of asking a question, what if? What if I do this? What if I, you know, as an adult in can be, what if do whatever? For me, as a kid is like, what if I jump off this wall? What's gonna happen? You know, but we grow up and we have a little bit more, more adult kind of perceptions, if you will, for that. And it really is like trying to spin out a scenario. 00:08:06 Chris: So if I am going to take a new job, for example, what is that gonna be like? Who am I gonna be working with? And we begin to develop stories around things in our imagination. And those stories are very important because we really can't take action to make things real until we've imagined them as a concept. 00:08:28 Melissa: Yeah. And so, okay. So this is something that I'm struggling with right now. This is like real time, I need some help, get me unclogged sort of stuff. So this idea of having a story in my mind and having a vision I want to make real, the vision side of it is so hard right now for me to see, mainly because it's like, there's things that I've envisioned in the past, but I haven't made happen. So I don't know kind of like how to play myself to a solution or a vision or just kind of like, think with a little less of like the past, you know, like hindering this vision. 00:09:15 Chris: Right. It's a great, it's a great thing. I mean, I'm sorry you're going through that, but I think that if you look at how a child plays, right, when they get an idea and they don't sit there and think, well, if I just do this or I do this or I do that, it's going to be fun, right? They come, that's not fun. I'm done. I'm on to the next thing. And I think as adults, we should do that too. If something is becoming too much effort, if it's not working, then we just drop it and go on to the next thing. 00:09:47 Chris: And I don't think there's any harm or foul in that. And I think that when you look at a kid who is imagining and playing, they're not judging the play as they're doing it. They're looking at well, where did this take me and where should I go next from it? And it's a much freer, kind of more peaceful way to go through the world. 00:10:08 Chris: I mean, I talk about things that I've done that turned out to be mistakes. And I call them I said, well, that was a once in a lifetime experience. As in I don't have to do that again. I learned the lesson. 00:10:20 Melissa: Yeah. And I think, you know, approaching any problem from that perspective releases that pressure to get it right the first time. And it gives you like the levity to get back up and just be like, okay, let's go at it again. And I imagine like, cause I noticed also, and I know that this side of it might be a little bit more conventional thinking, but like, you actually bring these ideas into corporate settings, you know, the art of play. 00:10:51 Melissa: And I'm like, if I think about the different environments where it's not okay to play. It's not okay to make mistakes. Like how do you sell that idea of we're just playing right now and don't get frustrated if it works or not in like a corporate setting, you know? 00:11:11 Chris: Well, one of the things that's so interesting in a corporate setting is people come into a meeting or a brainstorming and they're focused on one specific outcome, right? So if you're focused on an outcome, you kind of end-run the process of play because play is a process. Play is asking, what if, you know, let's go down this road and let's go down this road and see what it is. So I always encourage people to be as off the wall as possible. I will give you an example that almost got me fired. 00:11:43 Melissa: This is a good one, okay. 00:11:44 Chris: And nobody will like it, but I was working with Ideal, with Ideal Toy Company and we had the Shirley Temple doll. And nobody, we had these porcelain $400 Shirley Temple dolls and Shirley Temple dolls were huge in the '30s and still with doll collectors, but nobody was buying them. And we thought, how do we get rid of them? And I said, well, why don't we put them on the QE2 and use them as skeet? Like people can launch the doll. 00:12:11 Chris: So the brand manager got really mad at me. And told me I was inappropriate. But as we talked more, we ended up doing a doll collecting event with Cunard that actually turned out to be good. So the idea is, go out there and play off the wall in a safe environment, obviously. So the idea of creating an environment where it's safe to play, where it's safe to have that sort of impulsive childish response to a situation is okay. 00:12:45 Chris: We would never have promoted that in a corporate sense. But the idea that we were just playing with ideas and being silly. That opens the pathway to being really creative and to seeing what could actually work. And then once you get that, you put the action steps in place to get to the next step. 00:13:05 Melissa: Yeah, I think just, you know, going crazy and just really trying to break out of conventional thinking and our very logical pathways in our mind, it's like first we do this, that, the other. It's almost like some sentences, right? And the way we like greet each other, it's so like rehearsed that to come up with something like, oh my gosh, I love your outfit. You know, it reminds me of like a toy soldier or something. It would be like way off, but it would start rapport, I think. Rapport or like, you know, people would be like, kind of weirded out. But I've always tried that. How can I not weird people out? 00:13:44 Chris: Well, it's, right, well, that's always a question, but I don't really worry about that too much. But I think that one of the things, again, as I was saying about process, but also getting over fear, right? As adults, we think, well, what if I get it wrong? Children, when they play, if you watch them play, they don't worry about getting it wrong. They just think, well, that didn't work. That didn't do what I wanted it to do. Let me do something else. They haven't built a hierarchy of judgment and really being unkind to themselves about doing something wrong. 00:14:19 Chris: And if you embrace play, there's really no kind of, you can't be wrong when you're playing, right? Some things may be practical, but there's imagination and there's spinning things out, things that might never become real, but then things that actually could practically become real. And the process of getting to that point is actually pretty joyful. 00:14:42 Melissa: And I think we could all use some more joy these days, that's for sure. Adults and children alike. So let's see, let's go back in time. So let's go back to the time where you recall maybe playing with a toy and feeling like an insane amount of joy. If you can think about, you know, your one moment or one of the moments, I'm curious to hear your perspective. 00:15:06 Chris: Well, it's really interesting because one of the things that I really believe is what we play with as kids really becomes, we become a lot of that. And we had a basement in our house that had a room in it. They had a window in it. And my brothers and I would create puppet shows. And we would do that. And we would just go round up all the kids in the neighborhood and say, you have to watch this puppet show. And they did. They were good. But it was really about storytelling. It was about connection. It was about making things up and just feeling very alive in that moment, feeling very connected to who I was at that time and being able to share that with other people. 00:15:52 Melissa: Wow, so that's interesting. So it's funny because I feel like maybe I was, because I was an only child for most of my upbringing, like a lot of the things I did were just on my own and I had to really figure out how to make something out of what was around me. So let me share like this one thing that I would do to just pass the time. And of course, like in the background, like there was like maybe Magnum P.I. playing or, you know, name- Hawaii Five-0, whatever my mom was into. 00:16:25 Melissa: So I would go to the closet and I would take out a shoebox. And I would proceed to create like a scene. So they're called dioramas. I looked it up because I was like, this is a weird thing that I just kept doing all the time. And then I would create little figurines and put like little slots, you know, on the sides and move the little carboards in and out, you know. And I was like, okay, I have to ask Chris, like, what does that say about me? I have no idea. 00:16:56 Chris: Well, I mean, I would say it sort of starts you as a storyteller, which is what you're doing today. You're telling stories and you're facilitating other people telling stories. But it's also, I mean, especially for children at that age, it's about trying to make sense of the world and the stories they tell us, like trying to make sense of relationships. I'll tell you another story. 00:17:18 Chris: Years ago, we were playing with some kids with Barbie dolls. And they had all these different Barbie dolls. And one kid took all the blonde Barbie dolls and they were making fun of the brunette Barbie doll. And we were just watching this and going, yeah, this is somebody who is working out a reality in their life. 00:17:38 Chris: And that is really what play is, because even as she, in this case it was a girl, became powerful in that situation, was able to stand up for herself, you're giving your brain the sense that you can actually do this. If you do it vicariously, you've already had that experience on some level. So that when you confront that in real life, it might be easier, or you might have a solution. 00:18:03 Chris: I mean, how many times do you go into a situation, an interview or whatever, and you've rehearsed what you're gonna say? And your brain already knows that. It's like visual, what they talk about in sports about visualizing, you know, the outcome. You know, you're already having that experience, which is so cool. Cause our brain doesn't know the difference sometimes between reality and what we imagine. 00:18:24 Melissa: I love that. I love that. And so, yeah, who knows what I was trying to work out? There are a lot of things going on in my home. I'll tell you that much. But yeah, I think, you know, that idea though, just like trying to work things out that, you know, maybe you don't have that first person experience with, but like doing it through the use of a toy. Have you noticed at a curiosity any sort of changes with the dynamics between toys and kids now that there's like AI sort of toys out there? 00:19:01 Chris: There are so many different types of play experiences. What we were just talking about is more traditional doll or action figure or stuffed animal kind of play where a child is really doing that. Some of the other stuff with AI or licensed space like Star Wars, Marvel, all of that is beginning to understand yourself as a capable human being. 00:19:23 Chris: So for example, if I'm a superhero, I can feel. I can have the feeling of what it's like to be a superhero. And I always say, if your life is all about mom is in control, eat your peas, get in the minivan, do your homework, suddenly if you're a superhero, that's very empowering. And then empowering as an individual to be able to confront the world in a different way because you're empowered. So it's very classical, the kind of totemistic idea that we take on the powers of the superheroes. 00:19:59 Chris: And even though we're not gonna fly, we're not gonna lift, we're not gonna pick up a truck, we're not gonna do that, you have the emotional sense of capability, which is really what it's all about. 00:20:10 Melissa: That's interesting. I think, I mean, I don't know. Now that I think about my kids, for example, their toy experiences these days is really YouTube videos and playing video games and things like that. And I wonder if that's also along the same thread of what you just said, feeling the different capabilities like running fast or jumping high, things like that. 00:20:37 Chris: I think definitely. I mean, it's, you know, YouTube videos are like today's cartoons, right, on some level. You know, I grew up watching cartoons and, and it was- so they're looking at who are my role models and who are, you know, somebody's doing something. Oh, I'd like to try that. And, you know, or oh, wow, they tried that, I'm not gonna do that, but what would it be like if I did this kind of thing? 00:21:03 Chris: So I think that it's a window on the world and people are always concerned about screen time and I'm never concerned about screen time so much as I'm concerned about what's on the screen. So that is what's being modeled through the YouTube things, things that you as a mom or a parent want your child to be consuming because it can be very supportive or it can be kind of dangerous depending on what kids have access to. 00:21:30 Melissa: Yeah. And it's so interesting what you're sharing right now, because I mean, I had Saturday morning cartoons, for example, and I ate a lot of cereals with all the dyes and all these other things. And my kids literally tell me, they're like, oh, we want to have Saturday morning cartoons just like you. But of course, it is that YouTube thing. And I limit it to SpongeBob. Like, that's appropriate for their ages right now. 00:21:54 Melissa: But I think that's so interesting, this whole idea of rehearsal and visualization and imagination. I wonder because when it comes to toys and just the way that they've changed through the years, how did, for example, Tickle Me Elmo, how did that support people in terms of capabilities or anything? I'm curious. 00:22:22 Chris: Well, Tickle Me Elmo was kind of an outlier in that, you know, in terms of classical play. Tickle Me Elmo became a fad, right? And fads take on a life of their own. They kind of jump the shark or jump from the toy industry because Tickle Me Elmo started as an entertaining little preschool doll for preschoolers, infants and preschoolers. Suddenly it becomes this whole cultural phenomenon that everybody has to have. 00:22:50 Chris: It becomes, so it's a fad, so it becomes kind of a marker in time. So if you were around for Tickle Me Elmo, and you remember that, it's sort of a springboard to your memories of what the latter part of 1996 was about, because that's when Tickle Me Elmo was really huge. So that's not really kind of play in the way that I talk about it a lot. That becomes a cultural event. And my other joke about Tickle Me Elmo, Tickle Me Elmo was $40 really, basically, or more. You know, you can have a Tickle Me Elmo and be really cool for a lot less than you can have a Birkin bag. 00:23:26 Melissa: Wow, yeah, that's true. That is true. It's so funny, this conversation just takes me down the whole nostalgic route. Like I'm thinking about my Steve Urkel joke pull doll. Do you remember that one? 00:23:39 Chris: Yeah, yeah, of course. 00:23:41 Melissa: Yeah, so anyways, I'm totally like aging myself right now. I'm like, oh, I had Steve Urkel and I had Popples and all the like. What do you think, you know, nostalgia? Let's talk about that. Because I feel like a lot of marketers use that, you know, in order to kind of like pull forth a certain generation, let's say. And I even feel like at a supermarket, like I'm like, I think they know who their shoppers are with the music. But let's talk about nostalgia. 00:24:09 Melissa: Like, and again, thinking about more quote unquote modern toys, you know, like. And back to like these like electronics, like do you think that it'll be the same sort of calling card, I think is the right phrase? Like when someone starts saying, oh, like, let's say 10 years from now, you know, what's the name of the- Stumble Guys? Like, do you think that people will say like a certain like thing on video games and it'll have the same emotional pull as like Tickle Me Elmo, Popples, or Cabbage Patch? 00:24:41 Chris: It's hard to know. The thing about nostalgia is it's really for adults, right? Nostalgia is for people looking back. When you're three and four, you're not nostalgic for much. You're not remembering much. Maybe you remember your pull ups, right? When you had your pull ups. But you don't, you're not really nostalgic for something because you haven't been around that much. 00:25:03 Chris: The challenge from a toy marketing standpoint is relying on nostalgia to sell toys. Because I mean, yes, there's a certain level of you as a mom had My Little Pony or Littlest Pet Shop or any of those huge hits, Masters of the Universe. And you want to share those with your child. But for it to engage your child's imagination, there has to be something authentic to them. It's not just, mom liked this, so I'm going to like it too. That doesn't really work. 00:25:31 Chris: Look at Barbie and how Barbie's been redefined over the years, because Barbie always reflects the culture at any given time. So in 1959, she could be a fashion model or a bride, right? Pretty much, those are the Barbie options. Today, there are hundreds of careers and there's hundreds of abilities. And Barbie, the Barbie line looks like the world kids are growing up in, just as it did in 1959. It's just a more diverse and broader world with more possibility for girls and women today than it was in 1959. 00:26:08 Melissa: So when it comes to the toy industry, who's actually using their imagination to come up with like what to make for the future? Like, is it a combination of kids and adults? Is it like who's actually imagining like right now, like in the Mattels, et cetera, you know, what's coming down the line like 10 years from now? It's going to be hot and cool. And like, how do you how do you imagine something like that? 00:26:36 Chris: Well, it's hard. I mean, I think I think it's like, you know, my crystal ball usually needs a shot of Windex so I could get a clearer sense. But it's more an art than a science, that's for sure. And it's looking at trends. It's looking at how are kids playing, how are they interacting, how are they socializing, what is fun to them, and what's going on in the culture at large. Because the toy industry always reflects the culture. 00:27:03 Chris: We're always reflecting, because kids, you know, most healthy kids, they aspire to being big. They wanna grow up and they want the things like their parents have. So back in the, you know, in the early 2000s when cell phones came out, you saw tons of preschool cell phones, right? You don't see that so much anymore because the preschoolers have a real cellphone. 00:27:25 Chris: But you see things that will allow them to feel like they are part of the culture and they are growing up into it and that they are older and perhaps more capable than they really are because that's an important imaginative tool to help in the maturation process. 00:27:41 Melissa: That's fascinating. So that's true. It was definitely a lot of like, I don't know, mommy and me things. Like you see them with like a cash register or like a Target cart, right? The plastic little one, right? Cause their parent is shopping at Target. And so I wonder because it's like, there's some habits that as a parent, like maybe we wanna shake off ourselves, but we're inadvertently doing a lot. 00:28:06 Melissa: So like the cellphone one, I'm like, oh God, yeah, mommy has a cellphone and now her child does too. And it's like, how can I stop? And it's a reinforcement, but I'm wondering, okay, so in terms of the future and in terms of toys, have you ever done or seen any sort of things where the mom was playing with the child versus the child was playing by themselves? Like any differences there? 00:28:31 Melissa: Because I would love to just kind of inspire a listener right now to consider the fact that actually getting lost in play with their child can be even more beneficial than just having your child play with a toy to the side and you're doing something completely different. 00:28:52 Chris: I think that is critically important. One of the things that we're talking to parents of Gen Z and Gen Alpha kids. And Gen Alpha was born 2010 to this year. And one of the things that parents talk about is some of the best part of their day is when they're playing with kids. And what I always suggest is that if you're playing with your kid, especially if they're a preschooler, let the child run the play and you respond. Don't tell them, oh, look at this, oh, do that. 00:29:24 Chris: And you don't have to teach, it doesn't have to teach them anything, right? It doesn't have to teach. Kids are going to learn. So really letting that child's imagination drive the experience because, you know, I think every parent has had the experience where your child comes up with something and you go where did that come from? 00:29:45 Melissa: 100%. All the time. 00:29:47 Chris: And it's because they're sponges and they're listening to their absorbing everything and then they're processing it to their childlike brains or their childish brains. So I think that letting the child do that, but being there and being in communication is really important. 00:30:02 Chris: When I was growing up and maybe when you were too, we had three different worlds. We had kid world where no adults came in and the kids were doing that. We had adult world where we weren't allowed, where the parents would do that. And then there was family world, which is dinner and vacations and being yelled at about your grades or whatever that was. 00:30:21 Chris: But those three worlds don't really seem to exist anymore. And parents and kids are much more integrated in one another's lives. I think that's an outcome of COVID. It's actually a very positive outcome from COVID. Because you as mom and dad, have fun with your kids. Come on. It's, again, back to the idea of process rather than outcome. They don't have to become an expert ball player. They don't have to become an expert thing at times. They can actually just learn and play and discover the world and share those discoveries with you. 00:30:51 Melissa: Yeah, I love that. And I think it's an opportunity for someone that has to think a lot in life and feels the stresses of life to kind of let go and just stop thinking and just going with what is. Be present. You know, be totally present. 00:31:12 Chris: Be totally present and just be open to what it is. It's trying not to, as I was saying, it doesn't have to have a definitive outcome. And the one thing I think we've lost track of, often in our culture right now, is the idea of embracing process. It's really okay to make mistakes. It's really okay to try something, as long as you get up and start again. 00:31:36 Chris: I mean, how many times have you, I was talking about, for me, I learned to ski late. And I'm a really mediocre skier. I'm enthusiastic, but I'm not good. And I had somebody who was teaching me and he said, Chris, eventually I was scared. Eventually you're gonna have to point your skis down the hill. So I did it, I fell a lot, I did that, but I was so eager to learn that I'd fall and get up again. 00:32:04 Chris: I had to learn how to get up, but that's the thing that I think is, you know, if you have an idea of where you'd like to go but embrace the process on the way there because who knows what you're going to learn and what you're going to discover. 00:32:16 Melissa: Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I think that's the key to any goal. It's just you have to really fall in love with the process as you head towards the vision the goal, you know, whatever it is that you're trying to accomplish. And I also love the fact that, you know, as with play it's like there's something that's so pure about it, you know, when left on unmanipulated. 00:32:40 Melissa: It's like as a parent, we might have this desire to like educate our kids up to wazoo with regards to like every educational toy out there and every moment with we're with them, we're teaching them another language or coding or something. But I think, you know, just being open to a little bit, you know, unstructured play and that time with your child has so many benefits. And I think, you know, Chris, the work that you're doing just stay connected to like play as just being fun and okay and positive is is really helpful. Thank you so much for the work that you've done. 00:33:18 Chris: Thanks. I mean, I really do think that it as I mentioned, joy before it really does open the door to being joyful and going, oh, wow, that's fun, you know? I mean, when was the last time you said, oh, wow, that's really fun. 00:33:31 Melissa: 100%. Yeah, for sure. Thank you so much, Chris. So where can listeners continue to learn about their favorite toys, about you, about what's up ahead in the toy industry? 00:33:42 Chris: You can come see the toyguy.com. That's probably the best way. And then on Instagram, I'm thetoyguy. So, yeah. And I post a lot of pictures from things like toy fairs and different things and things that are fun for me and that make me giggle. 00:33:58 Melissa: Thank you so much, Chris. Have an awesome one. 00:34:01 Chris: Thank you. 00:34:03 Melissa: My three takeaways for this conversation that you can absolutely take to the bank and apply in your home are, first, this idea that playing with our kids has benefits for our kids, but also for us, especially if you're a super busy mom. It helps put you in the immediate present moment. So that's a big, big perk right there. 00:34:25 Melissa: Second is this idea that it's all about the process as opposed to the final answer. And that's something that I know is hard to think about when you're constantly thinking about what's next in your life. So thinking about play as something that you're doing and it's a process instead of to put together that Lego piece might be a great shift in your thinking and could relieve you of the stress and pressure of getting things right. 00:34:54 Melissa: Second, no, actually my third point here, my third point would be that in terms of the benefits of playing, I hadn't realized how psychologically deep some of these toys touch the minds of our kids. So the simple fact that we are thinking about, you know, working out relationships when you're doing a diorama, which may have been the case for me personally or maybe you're thinking about whether or not you have skills like a superhero, which was something that Chris shared, I just never thought about how psychologically interesting playing with a toy could be. 00:35:32 Melissa: So you might want to reconsider this idea that playing with a toy is just a way to distract your child or keep them focused on something other than breaking things. There could be real psychological value and also something for you to just consider psychological opportunity when it comes to the choices behind the toys we put in front of our kids. 00:36:00 Melissa: So I hope you enjoyed this conversation. Again, this episode was brought to you by my book, Fertile Imagination. I am excited about it. It's a guide for stretching every mom's superpower for maximum impact. Your imagination is your superpower. That is why I had Chris on the show today. I encourage you to check out the show notes where you could actually purchase the book and let me know that you did. I am always available for conversation and any questions. Thank you so much and I appreciate you. And until next Tuesday.