Conviction Over Consensus with the Co-CEO of Black Sheep Coffee

Conviction Over Consensus with the Co-CEO of Black Sheep Coffee

Black Sheep Coffee co-CEO Gabriel Shohet on building a 135-site brand by betting on the bean the specialty industry rejected. In 2013, two university flatmates from St Andrews quit their corporate jobs the same day, moved to London with around £20k between them, and built a coffee company on the bean the entire specialty industry had written off. 13 years later, Black Sheep Coffee runs 135+ locations across five markets, opens roughly 1.5 shops per week, and remains majority founder-owned. In this episode, Gabriel walks Conor through the conviction behind the Robusta bet, why customer satisfaction is the only growth metric they look at, the decision to operate 50 corporate shops before franchising, how they pick franchise partners (minimum unit thresholds, territory exclusivity, no mom-and-pops), why both founders relocated to Florida to lead the US expansion, the Sun Belt entry strategy, and the company slogan that explains the whole approach: never fear competition, open right next door instead. Plus a frank take on the David and Goliath fallacy, the role of data in a hypergrowth business, and why "great ideas" aren't what builds a brand. KEY TAKEAWAYS * Conviction over consensus. When the industry tells you you're wrong, stress-test the belief harder rather than abandon it faster * Customer satisfaction is the only growth metric. When it stays high, open more shops. When it drops, stop * Build the proof before you franchise. 50 corporate shops before the first franchisee landed * Filter out the mom-and-pops. Territory minimums and development schedules align partners with growth * Never fear competition. Open right next door instead. If your strategy is to avoid competition, you'll fall on your face eventually CHAPTERS 0:00 Intro: building on a conviction the industry thinks is wrong 2:50 Welcome, Gabriel 3:12 St Andrews flatmates, Sunday Skype calls, quitting jobs the same day 5:33 Why coffee: low capex, vertical control, revenue from day one 7:36 The Robusta thesis: going against the 100% Arabica industry 10:39 The unique insight: how Robusta got its bad reputation, and how to fix it 14:11 From street markets to Fitzrovia: the Kickstarter that almost wasn't 16:09 Ambition from day one: building to be number one, not number four 17:12 Hypergrowth: 1.5 shops per week, customer satisfaction as the only metric 21:58 Why data is key: clean, real-time, the 80% of the work 23:11 The franchising decision: 50 corporate shops before the first franchisee 25:28 Looking franchisees in the eye: the network average and the proven model 28:25 Why no mom-and-pops: minimum unit thresholds, territory, exclusivity 30:58 Majority ownership: turning down PE, raising from customers and family offices 32:57 The US move: why both founders relocated to Florida 35:01 The Sun Belt decision: Texas, Florida, broad-market proof 37:11 Localisation and competition: thinking ahead, not reacting 38:43 The first 36 months in the US: starting from scratch all over again 40:11 Building culture in an empty office 42:25 Challenger vs incumbent: when does a brand become a chain? 45:04 The Quick Turn: rapid-fire questions 45:10 What competitors would steal (and why it doesn't matter) 48:08 The metric that can't be summarised 49:15 "Never fear competition, open right next door" 51:03 The slingshot fallacy: hard work beats clever shortcuts 56:55 10 years out: no business plan, just stay true to the mission 59:00 Shift Notes: Conor's closing reflections USEFUL LINKS & RESOURCES Gabriel Shohet on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gasho/ Eirik Holth on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eholth/ Black Sheep Coffee: https://blacksheepcoffee.co.uk/ CONNECT WITH THE SHOW All What's Cooking episodes: https://www.nory.ai/podcasts Nory: https://www.nory.ai/ Nory blog: https://www.nory.ai/blog Nory on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/asknory/ Conor Sheridan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheridanconor/

Jamie Oliver Group bite-size: A second act

Missed the full episode with Ed Loftus, Global Director of Jamie Oliver Restaurants? Here's the bite-size cut. Keep an eye out for our next episode, featuring Gabriel Shohet, Co-Founder, Black Sheep Coffee. Hosted by Conor Sheridan, CEO of Nory, the AI operating system for hospitality. LISTEN TO THE FULL EPISODE Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-second-act-with-the-global-director-of-jamie-oliver-group/id1825066598?i=1000773076049 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-second-act-with-the-global-director-of-jamie-oliver-group/id1825066598?i=1000773076049]  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/32R0AG6m2m3g5WvQmCDGHB?si=ae9cb9f4e2414b24 [https://open.spotify.com/episode/32R0AG6m2m3g5WvQmCDGHB?si=ae9cb9f4e2414b24]  YouTube: https://youtu.be/BEYMHzyMeUg?si=6Ly-f2AdAuyKPFy3 [https://youtu.be/BEYMHzyMeUg?si=6Ly-f2AdAuyKPFy3]  CONNECT Ed Loftus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edloftus/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/edloftus/]  Conor Sheridan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheridanconor/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheridanconor/] Nory: https://www.nory.ai/ [https://www.nory.ai/] All What's Cooking episodes: https://www.nory.ai/podcasts [https://www.nory.ai/podcasts]

A Second Act with the Global Director of Jamie Oliver Group

Ed Loftus on bringing Jamie's Italian back to the UK, scaling Jamie Oliver Group to 80+ sites in 24 countries, and the discipline behind a real second act. Very few people in UK hospitality ever get to attempt a real second act. Jamie Oliver Group has just done it: Jamie's Italian back in Leicester Square in March 2026, seven years after the 2019 administration that closed the UK estate. The man who's been at the company through all of it (nearly 15 years, employee number one of the post-2019 strategy) is Ed Loftus, Global Director of Jamie Oliver Restaurants. In this episode he walks Conor through what it actually took to get here: building globally first (80+ sites, 24 countries, 7 brand formats), the franchise-first pivot, the partnership architecture behind the UK return (Brava Hospitality Group with Cain International), and a 30% smaller menu doubling down on fresh pasta made on premises every day. Plus 16 global partners, a head office that's banned PDFs, why "my Jamie is not your Jamie" matters when scaling a celebrity-chef brand, the John Lewis Cookery School partnership, and Ed's frank case that "people" is the operational metric most operators ignore. KEY TAKEAWAYS * A good brand doesn't necessarily make a good business. The 2019 UK administration wasn't a demand problem, it was a flexibility-and-capital problem * Build globally first, then come back home. Jamie Oliver Group spent six years proving the model in 24 countries before relaunching in the UK * Franchising is a marriage. Partner selection is the single most important decision; the right partners weather macro shocks together * Simplicity scales. Complexity does not. The technology backbone (digital intranet, no PDFs, LMS, sentiment) starts from that principle * Don't recreate the past. When a brand returns to market after a setback, the question isn't what to bring back, it's how the strongest attributes should show up in today's market CHAPTERS 0:00 Intro: what a genuine second act looks like in hospitality 2:43 Welcome, Ed 3:12 From chef to global director: 15 years across kitchens, multi-site, commercial 6:42 The scale today: 80+ sites, 24 countries, 7 brand formats 7:32 Reading the 2019 administration: not demand, but flexibility and capital 10:35 Why he stayed: Jamie himself, the brand, and a challenge worth taking 11:16 Post-2019 strategy: franchise-first, employee number one, building a team 14:54 Localising a celebrity-chef brand without losing the DNA 18:05 The technology backbone: digital SOPs, LMS, sentiment, no PDFs 20:33 Franchising as a marriage: partner selection is everything 22:18 The UK return: how the Brava Hospitality Group partnership came together 25:18 What's different at the new Jamie's Italian: design, menu, fresh pasta 29:23 Multi-zoned spaces and the modern casual-dining environment 31:16 Building experiences outside the venue: John Lewis Cookery School 34:00 Working with Jamie: a creative force who lived the kitchens 37:20 What a week in the global director's life looks like 39:24 The 200-site ambition and what has to go right 40:43 The Quick Turn: rapid-fire questions 45:29 Shift Notes: Conor's closing reflections USEFUL LINKS & RESOURCES * Ed Loftus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edloftus/ * Jamie Oliver Group: https://www.jamieolivergroup.com/ * Jamie's Italian: https://jamiesitalian.co.uk/ * Brava Hospitality Group: https://www.bravahospitalitygroup.com/ * Cain International: https://cainint.com/ * John Lewis Cookery School with Jamie: https://www.johnlewis.com/our-services/jamie-oliver-cooking-school CONNECT WITH THE SHOW * All What's Cooking episodes: https://www.nory.ai/podcasts [https://www.nory.ai/podcasts] * Nory: https://www.nory.ai/ [https://www.nory.ai/] * Nory blog: https://www.nory.ai/blog [https://www.nory.ai/blog] * Nory on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/asknory/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/asknory/] * Conor Sheridan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheridanconor/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheridanconor/]

Creams Cafe bite-size: Nobody needs a dessert

Missed the full episode with Oliver Rodbard, COO of Creams Cafe? Here's the bite-size cut. Keep an eye out for our next episode, featuring Ed Loftus, Group Director, Jamie Oliver Restaurants. Hosted by Conor Sheridan, CEO of Nory, the AI operating system for hospitality. LISTEN TO THE FULL EPISODE Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rebuilding-the-franchise-with-the-coo-of-creams-cafe/id1825066598?i=1000770899848 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2Hw7MUETsBzoWbBV9bu3gc?si=zGAuftnkSQiJqcv598mTiw [https://open.spotify.com/episode/2Hw7MUETsBzoWbBV9bu3gc?si=zGAuftnkSQiJqcv598mTiw]  YouTube: https://youtu.be/3eigJuiT-4g?si=44ni1HAZbdmEyf3m CONNECT Oliver Rodbard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oliverrodbard/ Conor Sheridan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheridanconor/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheridanconor/] Nory: https://www.nory.ai/ [https://www.nory.ai/] All What's Cooking episodes: https://www.nory.ai/podcasts [https://www.nory.ai/podcasts]

Rebuilding the Franchise with the COO of Creams Cafe

Creams Cafe COO Oliver Rodbard on scaling a franchise system, vertical integration as franchisee protection, and what it takes to make every visit count in a discretionary category. Oliver Rodbard, COO of Creams Cafe, sits down with Conor to walk through the operational reality of running a 98%-franchised, ~100-site business through UK family restaurant visits halving, aggregator commissions of 20 to 30%, and a tech transformation built to give margin back to franchisees, not extract it from them. 17 years across YUM! Brands, Pizza Hut Europe and Canada, Freshii, and Soul Foods Group give him a perspective rooted in both sides of the franchise table. He explains why vertical integration (Creams' own gelato and dry-mix plants) has held Creams inflation to ~19% while UK food service has run ~59.5%, why "trust governs the relationship, not the contract", and why every change Creams makes is consumer-tested then operationally tested before it lands. Plus a frank view on aggregators, the new Creams Direct delivery platform that's already done close to £1m in 10 weeks, and the philosophy that anchors all of it: when the category is discretionary and visits are down, every experience has to be worth it. KEY TAKEAWAYS * Trust, not the contract, governs the franchise relationship. The cleanest way to lose a franchisee is to forget that * Vertical integration done right is a margin gift to franchisees, not an extraction tool. Creams held inflation to ~19% while UK food service ran ~59.5% * The guest experience will never be better than the team-member experience. Build the back of house and the front follows * Capability beats control. Every franchise system thinks tighter rules = better outcomes; the durable answer is better-trained operators with more flexibility CHAPTERS 0:00 Intro: the franchising model and rebuilding trust 2:13 Welcome, Oliver 2:30 17 years across YUM!, Freshii, Soul Foods to Creams 5:21 The service model transformation: theatre over function 7:00 "Maniacal" testing: consumer panels, then operational reality 8:30 Brand purpose: "bringing people together" as operational framework 10:47 Nobody needs a dessert: the experience-led shift 12:30 How younger customers and hyperlocal community have changed engagement 14:30 Franchise mix: 60 franchisees across nearly 100 cafes 16:08 Onboarding: capability, cultural fit, and the "divorce is painful" filter 17:50 Multi-site progression: nobody's born with the skill set 21:23 When franchisees go quiet: re-reading "no news is good news" 23:40 Vertical integration: gelato in East London, mix in Northamptonshire 24:50 The numbers: 19% Creams inflation vs ~59.5% UK food service 29:22 Creams 2.0: tech, growth, kiosks for travel hubs 31:55 Site selection at scale 33:55 The tech stack: new EPOS, new app, Creams Direct 37:21 The Quick Turn: rapid-fire questions 42:25 Shift Notes: Conor's closing reflections USEFUL LINKS & RESOURCES * Oliver Rodbard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oliverrodbard/ * Creams Cafe: https://www.creamscafe.com/ [https://www.creamscafe.com/]  * Creams Direct: https://www.creamscafe.com/order-online/ CONNECT WITH THE SHOW * All What's Cooking episodes: https://www.nory.ai/podcasts [https://www.nory.ai/podcasts] * Nory: https://www.nory.ai/ [https://www.nory.ai/] * Nory blog: https://www.nory.ai/blog [https://www.nory.ai/blog] * Nory on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/asknory/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/asknory/] * Conor Sheridan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheridanconor/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheridanconor/]