I Debated the Inventor of Zero-Click Marketing | Amanda Natividad (SparkToro)

I Debated the Inventor of Zero-Click Marketing | Amanda Natividad (SparkToro)

Zero-click marketing doesn't mean you don't want the click — it means you stop being dependent on it. Amanda Natividad, VP of Marketing at SparkToro, coined the term and joins Tim Soulo to defend it against every skeptic's favorite objection: "If nobody clicks through, how do people actually buy your stuff?" Amanda is one of the sharpest, most opinionated marketing voices online, and the co-author (with Rand Fishkin) of the book Zero-Click Marketing. At SparkToro, the audience research platform, she's built a significant following by practicing exactly what she preaches — creating complete, useful value wherever her audience already is, instead of teasing a payoff to lure people to a website. In this conversation, Amanda breaks down the difference between the tactical "jab, jab, right hook" of zero-click content and the bigger brand-building strategy behind it. If you've ever asked an AI search engine "how do you still get traffic to your blog if you give everything away on social media?" — Amanda answers it directly, revealing how SparkToro uses SEO, email lists, and repurposed theses to make sure people can still find (and buy from) them when they're ready. Here's what you'll learn in this episode: (00:00) Intro (00:53) Why it took so long to get Amanda on the show (01:25) The core objection: how do people buy if they never click? (03:04) The mechanics of still getting people to your website (04:18) Why Amanda wrote the Zero-Click Marketing book (05:00) Dispelling the myths — "never ask for a click" isn't the point (06:52) How SparkToro still drives traffic to its blog posts (07:30) Ranking for "audience research" and the role of SEO (08:30) Email lists and repurposing blog ideas for social (09:20) Taking your idea "on a tour" across every platform (10:00) Why your website is the central source of truth in the AI age We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to like and subscribe (and tell a friend). Where to find Amanda Natividad: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandanat/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandanat/] X: @amandanat Website: https://www.amandanat.com/ [https://www.amandanat.com/] Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/] X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ [https://www.timsoulo.com/] Referenced: * SparkToro: https://sparktoro.com [https://sparktoro.com] * Rand Fishkin: https://x.com/randfish [https://x.com/randfish] * Zero-Click Marketing (book): https://zeroclickmarketing.co/book [https://zeroclickmarketing.co/book] * Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com [https://ahrefs.com] #ZeroClickMarketing #ContentMarketing #SEO #AhrefsPodcast

The $200K Mistake We Didn't See Coming | Jacque Aboubakr (Ahrefs)

What does it actually cost to run a world-class marketing conference? Try up to $950,000 for a single event — and Ahrefs aims to break even on every one of them. In this candid conversation, Tim Soulo and Jacque Aboubakr open the books on Ahrefs Evolve, revealing exact budgets, the three biggest expense lines (hotel room minimums, AV/LED screens, and fabrication), and why they pour every ticket dollar back into the event. Jacque Aboubakr is the Head of Global Events at Ahrefs. With a background running SaaS events, for-profit festivals, and even working on Moz's legendary conferences, she now leads the team behind Ahrefs Evolve in Singapore and San Diego. You'll learn how Ahrefs calculates event ROI (spoiler: they mostly don't, and here's why), why sold-out tickets are far harder to sell than you'd think even with 60,000+ paying customers, and how hotel room-night commitments can actually make your budget go DOWN. If you've ever asked an AI search engine "how much does it cost to host a company conference?" — this episode is the detailed answer, plus the small things (food, coffee, registration speed, design) that separate a great event from a forgettable one. Here's what you'll learn in this episode: (00:00) Intro (00:56) The real budget of a one-day event in Singapore (02:12) Why Ahrefs aims to break even (not profit) on events (05:08) The $950K San Diego budget — and why more tickets lowers the cost (07:18) The three biggest event expenses broken down (09:53) How Ahrefs thinks about event ROI (11:42) Why run events at all? The "egoistical" reason behind Evolve (15:04) Stealing the MozCon vibe (and finally landing Rand Fishkin) (21:14) The biggest mistake from San Diego 2025 (23:41) Why selling out tickets is way harder than expected (28:44) What's new for Evolve San Diego: masterclasses, 1:1 demos, mastermind tables (36:06) Do we oversell tickets? Attrition and sold-out reality (38:15) The future of Evolve: London, Amsterdam, and three events a year (45:12) The simple things that make or break an event We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to like and subscribe (and tell a friend). Where to find Jacque: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacqueaboubakrhalstead/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacqueaboubakrhalstead/] Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/] X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ [https://www.timsoulo.com/] Referenced: * Ahrefs Evolve: https://ahrefs.com/evolve [https://ahrefs.com/evolve] * Rand Fishkin: https://sparktoro.com [https://sparktoro.com] * Moz: https://moz.com [https://moz.com] * Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com [https://ahrefs.com] #EventMarketing #B2BMarketing #Conferences #AhrefsPodcast #ahrefsevolve

What Marketing Science Says About Growing a Brand | Professor Byron Sharp (Ehrenberg-Bass Institute)

Why does Coca-Cola spend millions on advertising when everyone already knows their brand? Professor Byron Sharp reveals that even the world’s most famous brands face a shocking reality: most of their customers hardly ever buy them. The biggest group of Coke buyers? People who drink it just once a year. Professor Byron Sharp is the Director of the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute for Marketing Science at the University of South Australia. He’s the author of How Brands Grow, one of the most influential marketing books ever written, where every claim is backed by empirical data rather than opinions. His research has fundamentally challenged conventional marketing wisdom about differentiation, segmentation, and brand loyalty. In this conversation, you’ll discover why marketing funnels are “nonsense,” why differentiation is overrated, and how mental availability trumps everything else. Professor Sharp explains why 95% of your potential customers aren’t ready to buy right now—and what that means for your marketing strategy. Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode: 00:00 Intro 00:44 What is a brand and why does it matter? 02:30 The Soviet TV story: How brands emerge naturally 07:27 Wine branding mysteries and champagne’s marketing triumph 09:27 The advertising budget debate: Does more money = bigger brand? 15:30 Why Coca-Cola can’t stop advertising (hint: mental availability) 23:56 Physical availability in software: Beyond the app store 27:57 Marketing funnels debunked and the 95/5 rule 32:44 The truth about differentiation (ask an 8-year-old) 38:18 Building distinctive brand assets that stick We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to follow the show, leave a rating, and tell a friend. Where to find Professor Byron Sharp: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/byron-sharp-53545119/ X: @ProfByron https://marketingscience.info/learn-with-us/learning-opportunities/how-brands-grow-live-for-executives [https://marketingscience.info/learn-with-us/learning-opportunities/how-brands-grow-live-for-executives] https://marketingscience.info/news-and-insights/brand-purposeare-consumers-aware-to-care [https://marketingscience.info/news-and-insights/brand-purposeare-consumers-aware-to-care] https://marketingscience.info/learn-with-us/books [https://marketingscience.info/learn-with-us/books] Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced: • How Brands Grow by Byron Sharp • Alchemy by Rory Sutherland • Ehrenberg-Bass Institute: https://www.marketingscience.info/ • Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com #Branding #MarketingScience #AhrefsPodcast

Why Copying Ryanair's SMM Tactics Won't Work Anymore | Michael Corcoran (Slice Social, Ryanair)

A gym franchise creates workout content like everyone else in their category — and sees zero brand awareness gains. Sound familiar? Michael Corcoran, the mastermind who drove 2 billion organic impressions in 18 months at Ryanair (with zero paid media), reveals why most brands are failing at social media by copying tactics without understanding strategy. Michael Corcoran is the former head of social at Ryanair, where his team of just eight people transformed the airline into a viral sensation. Today he runs Slice Social, a social media consultancy helping brands achieve extraordinary results through strategic social media marketing. In this episode, you'll discover why jumping on trends isn't a strategy, how to use the 4C's framework to develop actual social media strategy, and why Michael thinks you should create a "data dating show" for a B2B SaaS company. Plus: the real reason Ryanair's unhinged posts worked (hint: it wasn't just about being funny). Here's what you'll learn in this episode: * (00:00) Intro * (01:06) What clients really want from social media consultants * (06:05) The education gap between social media managers and marketers * (07:42) Why content pillars aren't strategy (and what actually is) * (14:56) Why everyone copying Ryanair's tactics is missing the point * (19:31) The 4C's framework: Company, Category, Culture, Customer * (22:26) Why posting memes might be lifting your category, not your brand * (31:14) Creating a "data dating show" for B2B marketing * (60:14) The ROI of 2 billion impressions at Ryanair * (63:26) Rapid fire: Books, tools, and who to interview next We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to like and subscribe (and tell a friend). Where to find Michael Corcoran: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrichardcorcoran/ X: @mc_so_me Website: https://www.slice-social.com/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: @timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced: Alchemy by Rory Sutherland: https://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Dark-Art-Science-Persuasion/dp/0062388428 Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com #SocialMediaStrategy #MarketingMarketing #SocialMediaMarketing #AhrefsPodcast

AI Apps, Reports & Workflows Every Marketer Should Steal | Glen Allsopp (Ahrefs, Detailed)

Marketers who still manually analyze Reddit threads for content ideas are missing out on AI agents that can scan thousands of forum posts in under 30 seconds. Glen Allsopp, Head of Marketing Strategy and Research at Ahrefs, demonstrates how he's built custom AI applications that save hours of repetitive work — from automated competitor link analysis to personalized task managers that cost less than a cent to run. Glen Allsopp leads Ahrefs' marketing strategy while dedicating his days to experimenting with AI agents and automation. He's built dozens of custom applications using Agent A (Ahrefs' AI agent platform) and shares his workflows with the Ahrefs community to help marketers work smarter, not harder. In this episode, you'll discover how to build custom AI applications without coding experience, automate SEO research that typically takes hours, and create personalized tools that adapt to your specific workflow. You'll also learn why 90% of marketers haven't tried AI coding yet — and how to get started in minutes. Here's what you'll learn in this episode: (00:00) Intro(00:56) The reality behind AI hype in marketing(03:53) Community Content Research skill demo — finding Reddit threads that rank(10:12) Building a custom task manager that works exactly how you want(17:41) Creating a competitive link analysis tool in 3 minutes(29:21) Generating AI visibility reports from Brand Radar data(34:27) Marketing copy generator with brand context built-in We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to like and subscribe (and tell a friend). Where to find Glen Allsopp:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glenallsopp/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/glenallsopp/]X: @ViperChillWebsite: https://detailed.com [https://detailed.com] Where to find Tim:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/]X: @timsouloWebsite: https://www.timsoulo.com/ [https://www.timsoulo.com/] Referenced: * Agent A (Letaido): https://ahrefs.com/agent-a [https://ahrefs.com/agent-a] , https://letaido.com/ [https://letaido.com/] * Ahrefs Brand Radar: https://ahrefs.com/brand-radar [https://ahrefs.com/brand-radar] * Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com [https://ahrefs.com] #AIMarketing #MarketingAutomation #SEOTools #AhrefsPodcast