BE THAT LAWYER

Deborah Farone: Developing Clients, Confidence, and Career Control

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Deborah Farone discuss: * Using business development as a path to influence and autonomy * Starting relationship-building early in your career * Aligning marketing with authenticity and personality * Deepening trust by focusing on long-term relationships   Key Takeaways: * Business development gives women greater control over their careers, choices, and leadership opportunities. A strong book of business shifts power dynamics and opens doors that talent alone often cannot. * Business development is most effective when it begins in law school, not at a partnership. Early relationships compound over time and prevent habits that isolate lawyers from future clients. * The most effective business development reflects who you are, not generic networking scripts. Choosing methods that fit your interests builds consistency, credibility, and long-term momentum. * Client loyalty grows from empathy, understanding, and sustained connection beyond transactions. Investing in existing relationships delivers greater impact than constantly chasing new clients.   "They say it's five times more expensive to get a brand new client than it is to grow an existing client. So it's a better use of your time." —  Deborah Farone   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/]   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/]   About Deborah Farone: Deborah Farone is a strategic advisor, author, and speaker specializing in business development and marketing for law firms. She is the founder of Farone Advisors, where she helps lawyers build strong client relationships and sustainable practices. Deborah previously served as Chief Marketing Officer at Cravath, Swaine & Moore and Debevoise & Plimpton, and is widely recognized as a pioneer in legal business development. She is the author of Best Practices in Law Firm Business Development and Marketing and a frequent lecturer at law schools and legal organizations worldwide.   Connect with Deborah Farone:   Website: https://deborahfarone.com/ [https://deborahfarone.com/]   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://www.facebook.com/salesresults/] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Charlie Gaudet: Escape the Founder Trap and Scale Your Firm

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Charlie Gaudet discuss: * Moving beyond hard work toward sustainable growth * Escaping the founder-centered business model * Outperforming talent using systems  * Protecting time as the highest-leverage asset   Key Takeaways: * Hard work eventually becomes a liability when it replaces strategy, systems, and recovery. Sustainable growth requires designing the business so it scales without destroying the founder’s health or capacity. * Businesses stall when the founder becomes the bottleneck for decisions, delivery, and growth. Long-term scale only happens when systems and teams replace heroic individual effort. * Top performers win not because they work harder, but because their systems reduce variation and create consistency. Documented, measurable processes turn small improvements into repeatable, compounding gains. * Return on Time matters more than effort, activity, or hours worked. Delegation, automation, and pricing strategy free leaders to focus on high-impact thinking instead of constant execution.   "They have to look at ROT, which is return on time… Where are they spending the time, and how do they maximize their time?… Raise your rate… leverage AI… More and more attorneys are able to get more done in less time when they can leverage AI in the right way." —  Charlie Gaudet   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/]   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/]   About Charlie Gaudet: Charlie Gaudet is the author of “The Predictable Profits Playbook: The 7- and 8-Figure CEOs’ Guide to Generating Consistent and Sustainable Growth“ (voted #1 Book on Sales & Marketing by Indie Excellence) and host of The Beyond 7-Figures Podcast. The International Business Times called him “The Go-To Business Coach for 7- and 8-Figure Businesses” and perhaps the “busiest sales coach in the US.“ GritDaily said Gaudet is: “regarded in entrepreneurial circles as one of the top coaches for helping entrepreneurs surpass the seven and eight-figure mark.” Yahoo Finance referred to him as: “The CEO Whisperer.” CEO Weekly said he was one of the top 10 “Innovative CEOs to Follow.” And he’s listed at the top of several “Best Business Coach”  lists. He’s been an entrepreneur since the age of 4, created his first multi-million dollar business at 24, and has helped others generate millions with his strategies. He’s received numerous awards and recognition (including founding a company named as “One of the Best Seed Stage Companies” by Ernst & Young), received his Certificate of Leadership Development from The US Army War College and has his business advice featured around in the world – including Inc., Forbes, Salesforce, Success, Entrepreneur, and Fox Business – as well as on podcasts and radio. He was named one of American Genius’s Top 50 Industry Influencers. He trains in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (two gold medal finishes) and is a 3-time wrestling state champion. He lives in Florida with his beautiful wife, three adorable kid-preneurs, and one badass dog.   Connect with Charlie Gaudet:   Website: https://predictableprofits.com/ [https://predictableprofits.com/]     Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://www.facebook.com/salesresults/] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Colleen Joyce: Leading, Selling, And Scaling In A Changing Legal Market

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Colleen Joyce discuss: * Failing fast while managing risk * Building a competitive legal practice intentionally * Treating sales as listening and diagnosis * Leading and adapting for the future of law   Key Takeaways: * Test ideas quickly and learn from small, recoverable failures. Avoid high-stakes decisions that can jeopardize the entire business. Fast iteration builds resilience in a rapid attention and news cycle. * Strong branding is essential in a crowded legal market. Lawyers must understand marketing and business, not just legal skills. Personal brand and visibility increasingly determine growth and opportunity. * Effective sales begins with asking questions and listening deeply. Clients commit when they feel understood, not when they are pitched.  A clear diagnosis must come before proposing solutions or pricing. * Know your strengths and hire to cover gaps. Transparency and honesty strengthen leadership and team trust. Investing in technology, efficiency, and learning is required to stay competitive.   "I know lawyers don't like to hear this, but they are salespeople, just like every other job." —  Colleen Joyce   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/]   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/]   About Colleen Joyce: Colleen Joyce is the Chief Executive Officer of Lawyer.com, the leading U.S. legal directory and lawyer-matching service that connects consumers with qualified local attorneys. She has spent over a decade building and scaling Lawyer.com’s offerings, from foundational directory services to expanded products, marketing education (including CLE courses), and industry events focused on lawyer growth and digital strategy. Joyce previously served as President and Senior Vice President of Lawyer Services, developing deep expertise in management, online legal marketing, and business development before becoming CEO in 2024. Under her leadership, Lawyer.com has experienced significant growth and expanded its role in helping lawyers with client acquisition, thought leadership, and industry engagement. Joyce also brings a background in marketing and publicity from earlier roles, including directing marketing and public relations at PopStar.com, and holds a Bachelor of Arts from the University of Illinois, graduating magna cum laude in liberal arts and sciences.   Connect with Colleen Joyce: Website: http://www.lawyer.com/ [http://www.lawyer.com/] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenjoyce/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenjoyce/]   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://www.facebook.com/fretzinsteve] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Amy Wood: Lawyer Like An Athlete

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Amy Wood discuss: * Cultivating inner balance * Training your career like an athlete * Building the four pillars of success * Managing energy and embracing growth   Key Takeaways: * Focus on inner balance rather than chasing work–life balance. Intentionally manage your energy, mindset, and relationships to sustain long-term professional performance. * Treat your career like elite athletic training by consistently prioritizing physical health, restorative sleep, and daily self-care as essential foundations for mental sharpness. * Surround yourself with the four pillars of success: a genuinely supportive network, a solution-oriented mindset, deliberate self-care, and engaging, nourishing diversions that spark creativity. * Protect and invest your energy wisely, design environments that actively inspire focus, and embrace mistakes as valuable opportunities for growth, reflection, and learning.   "When you're thinking about your energy, look at it like a battery that needs to be recharged." —  Amy Wood   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/]   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/]   About Amy Wood: Dr. Amy Wood is a licensed psychologist, certified executive coach, and award-winning author who has devoted her career to helping individuals and organizations articulate and arrive at new and more empowering versions of success. In particular, she is known for helping individuals and organizations to edit down overwhelm to their own customized productivity and happiness essentials. With a doctorate from Adler University and a prior career in communications, she inspires transformation with a unique blend of humor, directness, and psychological insight. Dr. Wood’s intention is always to live and work in ways that bring out the best in herself and others.   Connect with Amy Wood:   Website: https://amywoodpsyd.com/ [https://amywoodpsyd.com/] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amywoodpsyd/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/amywoodpsyd/]   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://www.facebook.com/fretzinsteve] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Susan Filan: Finding Joy and Peace in a High-Pressure Career

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Susan Filan discuss: * Reclaiming life before life demands it * Asking the questions that change everything * Stepping off the professional hamster wheel * Choosing authenticity over performance   Key Takeaways: * Near-death experiences show how fragile, temporary, and precious life truly is. Fulfillment starts when we stop postponing purpose and intentionally live each day in alignment with what truly matters most. * Fear often hides our deepest desires, but asking the right questions clearly reveals them. Imagining our future self at the end of life helps guide decisions toward what we genuinely want and value. * Overwork often masks misalignment with our own integrity, health, and needs. Sustainable progress begins by recognizing limits, slowing down, and making intentional changes that honor both well-being and meaningful work. * Long-term fulfillment cannot grow from roles we play to please others or meet external expectations. True joy and inner peace emerge when we live, work, and lead consistently in alignment with our authentic selves.   "I can't outsource my happiness. So if I'm not happy today with what I have, where I am... I'm not going to be happy then when I get it." —  Susan Filan   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/]   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/]   About Susan Filan: Susan is a former prosecutor and MSNBC Senior Legal Analyst turned transformational speaker and life strategist. With over 30 years in high-stakes arenas—from prosecuting cold-case murders to defending clients on death row and analyzing national cases on cable and network television—she has faced some of the toughest challenges imaginable. Her greatest trial, however, came in a near-fatal accident that became her ultimate wake-up call, inspiring her to help others transform crisis into clarity and purpose. Susan blends legal grit, neuroscience, and spiritual insight to guide high achievers in breaking free from limiting beliefs, reigniting their deepest dreams, and creating lives of joy, fulfillment, and impact. Known as The Wake-Up Call Speaker and The Architect of Reinvention, she delivers keynotes, private strategy sessions, immersive retreats, and media appearances designed to awaken potential, spark transformation, and help people reinvent their lives from the inside out.   Connect with Susan Filan:  Website: https://susanfilan.com/ [https://susanfilan.com/] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanfilan/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanfilan/]   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://www.facebook.com/fretzinsteve] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.