Laughter, Listening, and Lessons: Keys to Raising Confident Daughters

Laughter, Listening, and Lessons: Keys to Raising Confident Daughters

If you're a dad eager to strengthen your relationship with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you'll want to tune into the latest episode of the Dad and Daughter Connection podcast. This episode dives deep into real stories, practical advice, and genuine reflections on the journey of fatherhood. Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis [https://www.linkedin.com/in/drchristopherlewis/], this episode welcomes guest Daryle Brown [https://www.linkedin.com/in/darylebrown/], a retired director of Social Justice and IT at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, and a father of two adult daughters. What emerges is a warm, honest conversation filled with the kind of wisdom every dad could benefit from. Consistency and Open Communication: Dr. Christopher Lewis and Daryle Brown emphasize the importance of being consistently present and level-headed in your daughter's life (03:03), regardless of the circumstances. Daryle Brown shares how maintaining open channels of communication allowed his daughters to feel comfortable coming to him with anything, even the difficult topics. Balancing Guidance with Independence: A recurring theme is the challenge of balancing parental guidance with granting daughters the freedom to make their own choices (06:27). Daryle Brown explains how crucial it is to support, not control, and to accept their individualism—even when their paths or decisions differ from our expectations. Intentional Engagement: Being an involved dad is about more than just showing up; it's about active participation (09:35). Whether attending soccer games or offering life advice, Daryle Brown highlights the impact of being genuinely engaged and available during both the ups and downs. Listening and Patience: Another heartfelt takeaway is the power of listening—really listening—before offering advice (15:16). Patience is key, both in conversations and in the natural progression of a child's growth. Daryle Brown also credits humor and shared laughter as essential elements in building enduring connections. Lasting Wisdom for Dads: In his closing advice, Daryle Brown urges dads to be patient, listen deeply, and infuse their relationships with laughter. As he reminds us, "Humor is so critical… it just melts the challenges and the difficulties." This episode is packed with down-to-earth insights and encouragement. Subscribe to the "Dad and Daughter Connection" and discover practical ways to show up as the dad your daughter needs. Listen now and keep building those strong, lasting bonds! If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey [https://bit.ly/daddaughtersurvey] to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter [https://bit.ly/ddcneweletter] to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/DrChristopherLewis], Facebook Group [https://www.facebook.com/groups/dadanddaughterconnections], Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/dadofdivas], LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/drchristopherlewis/], X [https://www.x.com/dadofdivas]. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week I love having you come back to learn, to grow, to be able to find new ways to be able to build those strong relationships that you want to build with your daughters. And that's why this show exists every week. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:07]: I love being able to have you here to gain some hints, some tips, some tricks, some things that you can use right away, to be able to demystify some things and to be able to figure out some ways in which you might be able to adjust what you're doing, to be able to create those connections. And I do that every week by bringing you different people, people with different experiences that have done fatherhood in different ways. And I love being able to do that because I think all of us can learn even that no matter where we are in this journey of fatherhood. You know, I've got two daughters. I know you've got daughters, and that's why this is important. I learned from our guests. I know you do, too. And today we've got another great guest. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:51]: Darrell Brown is with us. And Darrel is someone I've known for a number of years. He actually was a guest of a past podcast that I did in the past, and I talked to him about fatherhood then, but we're going to be talking it more. Darrell just retired as the director of Social justice and IT for Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago and now is living on a farm. So a little bit different and different experiences, but I'm really excited to be able to talk to him, catch up and talk a little bit more about his own journey with his daughters. Darrell, thanks so much for being here today. Daryle Brown [00:02:24]: Thank you. It's a pleasure. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:25]: Well, I'm really excited to be able to have you here today. And I guess I know you've got two daughters. They're adults now and doing Their things. And I know that they've some really amazing things happening in their lives. I'd love to have you think back to your relationship with your daughters and what's one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with your daughters and what made it so special? Daryle Brown [00:02:47]: Well, I think that it's hard to gauge a moment that was just life changing, so to speak. I think what's been more important in the relationship I have with my daughters is consistency. Them understanding that they could pretty much talk to me about anything, being level headed. When you hear things that may not exactly be along the path that you may want them to go or have them thinking along the lines that you want them to be thinking and to be able to accept their individualism. I think that's kind of the tone that I've taken with them over the years. And it's worked to the extent that we still communicate very openly, very freely when alcohol or marijuana, those types of things. When my children decided to experiment, so to speak, it was not something that they did secretively. I took my girls out for their first drinks. Daryle Brown [00:03:38]: Well, not really, but it was supposed to be that way. I remember now this is my baby daughter, Kamara, my youngest daughter, so she's 31 now, I think. And I remember her coming to town because she was in college, out of town, she came to town and I remember finding her id, her drinking eligible ID that wasn't real and being just terribly concerned because what if you get caught with two driver's licenses and you get pulled over? What kind of damage is that going to do to your whole life? And of course she minimizes, she was like, oh dad, you know, it's no big deal, everybody does it, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. But for me it was, it was very concerning. It was a prayer moment because I know how the system can react to these types of situations and you never know how deep that rabbit hole is going to run. So needless to say, she grew out of that. She's always been brilliant and that has come to play through these later years. And I think I may have mentioned to you she just defended her dissertation at Harvard and we'll be going to the graduation in a few weeks. Daryle Brown [00:04:43]: So she turned out all right, even though that was a pretty scary moment. But you have those occasions when they will surprise you and not necessarily understand all the ramifications of decisions that they're making. So my older daughter's actually been married. She was married for five years and she's been probably divorced for five years now, maybe longer. We had a interesting. I wouldn't call it traumatic situation. Again, these things affect me more than they affect them sometimes. So when she was going through her divorce, she didn't tell anybody? Well, she didn't tell me there were people that knew her sister, knew my wife's best friend, Cynthia, knew she had support in that portion of her life, and it just wasn't me. Daryle Brown [00:05:29]: And I don't think my wife either. And when she finally told us the dirty deed was done, paperwork was signed, it was, like, over. And I think part of it was that she thought that we might try to talk her out of it. And again, that's my trying to understand why she didn't tell us about what she was going through at the time. But at any rate, you know, it happened. There were no children involved, so it was pretty much a clean split. I was pretty sad because I liked him, but of course I liked him based on the relationship that he and I had. I wouldn't have liked him if I had known the relationship that he and my daughter were having. Daryle Brown [00:06:03]: So that was. I don't know if these were monumental or as you had described it earlier. Hopefully they kind of fit in the. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:10]: Sure. And one of the things that I know, I mean, is that you've been busy in your career, and you've had lots of different things that you've done in your career. You've been a busy person, and there's been lots of things that you've balanced as a professional, as a, you know, personally, in your own life, et cetera, and as a father, you have to balance. So talk to me about balance. And how did you balance not only what you were doing, but really how did you balance guiding your daughters while also giving them the independence to grow into the people that they became? Daryle Brown [00:06:38]: Well, Christopher, it starts with having a good partner. And even though my wife was a career person also, I think early in our marriage, she probably did a lot more with and for the kids than I did. I think I probably got better once we moved to Chicago. Part of the stress was a lot of travel. I did a lot of travel on my job, but we made it through. And I certainly tried to give my kids the attention that I could when we were together. When I was around, I may have been busy with work, but I wasn't super busy with other stuff. So it was like, yeah, I was busy with work, but I was pretty family focused. Daryle Brown [00:07:17]: So, I mean, that helped, I think. I think church helped. The fact that we regularly attended church. As a family, our church happened to have a good child children's church. So we had that going for us. It was a bit of a challenge moving to Chicago away from family, because, as I may have mentioned before, we moved to Chicago when my youngest daughter was like 2 and my older daughter was maybe 9. So that moving away from the whole support structure that we had in Detroit, lots of family, lots of friends, to a new city, that created a bit of stress, but it also, I think, created a bond. We were very, very lucky to have great neighbors, both on one side of us and behind us, with kids the same age as my younger daughter. Daryle Brown [00:08:21]: So that that helped very well. We discovered a wonderful Montessori school for my younger daughter that was a great contributor to kind of a steadiness in. In her life. So a lot of different pieces have to come together. And Christopher, I'll tell you, the reality is we were very fortunate that we were financially pretty well off. Not rich, but, you know, pay a lot for the bricks in Oak park, so we could afford to live in Oak Park. They have very good schools there. They have an incredible. Daryle Brown [00:08:56]: I guess I'll call it a recreation department for the township. We have two beautiful facilities with pools, and they've added things since. I've kind of aged out of that group. But, I mean, it was a great town to raise a family. So that's another thing that went very well. Very fortunate. Between church and picking a good town to live in. Very fortunate. Daryle Brown [00:09:14]: I don't take for granted the fact that we could afford to do it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:17]: Every father has to really think about the things that they're doing to be able to build those bonds. And this show's all about creating those strong bonds. What are some intentional ways that you worked, either in the past or even currently, to strengthen your bond with your daughters, especially during those challenging times? Daryle Brown [00:09:35]: First of all, you got to be participatory. If the girls play soccer, you got to go to soccer games, you got to be there. You got to be yelling on the sideline. And more importantly, don't get me in trouble on this. You have to be able to give them that additional coaching that the coach may not give them. So there was this one team, and this is a soccer league. They were just incredible. They had great players at every position. Daryle Brown [00:09:59]: They had speed, they had attitude. And the attitude was the part where I had to coach my daughter. Now, I don't know if you're familiar with the concept of playing the dozens. Have you ever heard about playing the dozens? That's kind of an African American community thing. And it's when you talk about people's parents. So my daughter was complaining about how these girls are always talking about us, but I can't hardly get my head wrapped around it. And I said, next time she does that, you just look her in the eye and say, your mama, and keep it moving. So, you know, sometimes your teachings are a little unorthodox. Daryle Brown [00:10:32]: And mom was not happy. Mom was not happy about it. But the reality is, it's something that me and. Me and Kamara still laugh about today because it worked. You know, it's just kind of shocking. Just like, what did she just say? So, yeah, I taught my daughter how to play the dozens. I'm not proud, but it happened. So just to say, though, the point of it is, you got to be engaged to the point where, you know, they tell you what's going on, they tell you their ups and their downs, and they seek your counsel. Daryle Brown [00:11:01]: And sometimes the coaches can get them through it, but sometimes the parents have to kind of boost them. Now, I. I will say one of my disappointments was when Kamara was about to move from green belt to brown belt in karate and instead said, dad, I'm done with karate. And that was it. She never went back to another class. And I. I had lots of conversation about it, and nope, didn't work a comparable thing for my older daughter, Nia. So I don't know if this is great communications, but when she was going to college, decisions. Daryle Brown [00:11:37]: So she had decided that she wanted to go to Boston College. And the reason why was that Boston College, as it had a great international relations program, and she was talking about international relations, they had lots of opportunities to travel abroad, and my wife and I relented, and it was outside of our range, but we said, okay, this is going to be great for you. This is what you want to do. And so she's up there at orientation, and she's calling home, just kind of check in, blah, blah, blah. And she says, oh, and I changed my major to psychology. And I'm like, psychology, psychology. Every school in the country has a psychology program. So she ended the conversation with, dad, you ruining my best day ever. Daryle Brown [00:12:20]: So I like to tell you I work my way out of that, but I didn't. She was mad at me for some time, but. So all the communications we do are not necessarily going to bear fruit. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:32]: No, they're not. They're not. They're definitely not all going to bear fruit, as you mentioned. And none of us are infallible. We are human. And we make mistakes. I guess, as you think about fatherhood for yourself and raising your daughters and even, or even today with adult daughters, what's a mistake that you've made as a father? And what did you learn about it from. No. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:55]: And what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection with your daughters? Daryle Brown [00:13:02]: I don't know if I list this as a mistake, but this past Christmas, we vacationed in Jamaica with my older daughter's partner and his family, and things were going great. We had a great time. But the roads on this particular island were loaded with potholes. And so we're driving. I don't know, we may have been driving to the airport with the rental car, and my daughter was in the front seat, my Navigator, but she kept trying to tell me where to drive on the road. You're too close to the center. You're too close to the edge. You're too close to this. Daryle Brown [00:13:32]: And we got into basically a screaming match to the point where when we finally got to the airport, I was like, just get out. And we ended up as. I don't know what exactly went wrong, but we ended up missing our flight and having to reschedule. And as far as I was concerned, it was her fault. And I was like, don't, don't. I won't talk to you. And I would say that the lesson learned is give it time. Because we were a heated argument, we're fussing at each other. Daryle Brown [00:13:59]: We don't want to speak to each other anymore, and we didn't for, I don't know, two, three weeks maybe. Eventually, we talked again. We didn't go back into this conversation, however. We just picked it back up, you know, So I don't know how great that advice is. It would just be, hey, sometimes you just got to let it go. There's not going to be a person that's right or a person that's wrong, and you just have to, you know, just have to move on. And that's okay, too. It's okay not to define who was Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:24]: right as you think about your daughters, too. Every one of us, as fathers, have to find ways to be able to show our daughters that they are valued and heard. What did you do intentionally to help your daughters to feel that they truly were valued and heard? Daryle Brown [00:14:41]: Well, I have a background in restorative justice practices, but that came later. I think I've just been fortunate to have been in situations and places where listening was important. In rj, certainly listening is important. My wife and I participated in a Program, I don't know, 40 years ago, maybe 35 years ago, where we went into schools and we taught. I say taught, but it was kind of an enrichment type program in struggling schools. And as part of that, one of the important components was learning to listen and hearing people. And there are lots of other things to it, and a lot of those we implemented in how we raised our own children. But I think the important thing is being able to hear them out. Daryle Brown [00:15:26]: Before you offer up your life wisdom, you'll be surprised at what you'll learn. I think being available to listen. I think my daughters have always felt like they could talk to dad, that there was no subject that they couldn't broach with me. I mean, I. I've been in lots of conversations about boyfriends. I certainly would tell them if a boyfriend rubbed me the wrong way, but for the most part, I let them have their own age appropriate experiences, I would say. And I think that's worked pretty well. They're going to make their mistakes with their relationships. Daryle Brown [00:15:57]: I made a few myself. So I think I lucked out and found a good gal. And we celebrated 40 years of marriage last year. So as she reminded me recently, when I came down here, before we were married, we came down to the farm, this is the farm that we're living at now, to meet Uncle Fred and Ahmaud and help them celebrate their 75th wedding anniversary. And my wife was like, this is how we do it in my family. So that's been a mantra of ours that we're shooting for 75 years. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:26]: That would be an amazing milestone for you. Daryle Brown [00:16:30]: 40 is good for me too. Now it's a matter of living right, eating right. Let me tell you, this farm life, I've only been doing it for maybe four weeks, really being here all the time. And it's a great exercise program. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:45]: I can only imagine. Now, I know both of your daughters are very different people. They went off and are doing very unique things, different than each other, and had different dreams, passions. Talk to me about how you supported your daughters in pursuing those dreams and passions. Daryle Brown [00:17:05]: I think you just have to be there on the. During the down times, when things are going great for them, all you have to do is ride along. But when things aren't going great, when they're stressing out about tests or milestones and things that need to come up, being able to talk them back from the edge with confidence, understanding that no matter what happens, it's not the end of the world. But at the end of the day, you got this. You've got a whole history of success behind you. There's no reason in the world that you should be stressing yourself out about whatever comes next. I mean, it's just another step. I've had those phone calls when they were both of them on their own paths where they were just not feeling it. Daryle Brown [00:17:47]: I think that Camara, when she was working her way through her PhD, she took a year off. And some of my friends that had been through programs like that said that sometimes that's good. Of course, as a parent, your concern is that they're never going back. This is the end of the road. Not the kind of stuff I would ever share with her. I may have negative thoughts creeping in my head, but I would not share that. My conversations with her were always supportive and uplifting. And you can do this and just stick to it, take some time off, get your head together and then get back to it and you'll be fine. Daryle Brown [00:18:18]: Similarly, Nia had her struggles when she was in law school. Law school is a burden. And a lot of it they do on purpose. You know, it's a weeding out process and we managed our way through it. But I think for us parents, we need to be able to bear some of that internally and not necessarily be in that same rhythm. When they're down. We can't be down with them. We have to be that positive, that positive notion that kind of brings them up a little. Daryle Brown [00:18:45]: You're not going to necessarily bring them from a depression of getting a C minus on one of your law school papers. You're not gonna bring them up immediately, but you need to stay positive. I think that's the moral of the story. As parents, we need to stay positive. They don't need the pressure of us leaning too hard on them. We need to be able to help them get back on an even keel and not be down there waddling in the mud with them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:09]: One of the other questions that I wanted to ask goes down to, and this could be from the past or currently, is what's one way that you show your daughters that they can always count on you? Daryle Brown [00:19:20]: I think that unfort I'm not as good at this with my wife as I am with my daughters, is not overreacting, not getting out of phase, not getting angry, not showing anger, being able to maintain that equanimity. I think that's important. They have to be able to know when they come to you with something that they know is going to piss you off, that you're not going to go over the edge about it and that you're going to be able to deal with them and deal with the conversation or whatever the struggle or helping them with a solution that you're going to be able to do that without overreacting. I think that's a very important thing and not easy, not easy to always master. And as I said, you know, it's okay to walk away sometimes if you feel yourself going over the edge, because I don't know how many chances a child gives you if you continually go over the edge, yelling, screaming, cussing, fussing, whatever. I don't know how many chances you get if that's going to be your reaction, because pretty soon they're going to seek other people to. To get that kind of counsel. So that would be a caution for parents, especially young parents. Daryle Brown [00:20:23]: You can't be jumping edge every time they do something that makes you mad. They're kids now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:27]: We always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 66 more questions to delve a little bit further into you as a dad. Are you ready? Daryle Brown [00:20:35]: I'm ready. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:35]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughters? Daryle Brown [00:20:39]: I'm struggling between warm and humorous. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:41]: What's the best piece of dad advice that you ever received? Daryle Brown [00:20:46]: You know, I think that for me, I grew up in a relatively complicated dad orientation. I had a genetic father, I had an adopted father, and then I had a stepfather. So I had three men that could be framed as dads. And I would say that the lessons, the lessons I learned from my stepfather and the kindness that he displayed to my mother and me, his own children, to some degree, that is a model that I've used. So I don't know how that fits your question, but I have more of a model that guides me than anything else. Else. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:23]: What's one activity that you and your daughters love to do together? And it could be different for each daughter. Daryle Brown [00:21:30]: Cook. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:31]: If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Daryle Brown [00:21:35]: Take time to have fun. And we do. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:38]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Daryle Brown [00:21:42]: I think I've learned how to be patient. I've learned how things don't happen right away. And by the way, daughters helped me learn that. Gardening helped me learn that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:51]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Daryle Brown [00:21:59]: First of all, be patient with them. Listen, have fun. Laugh. Oh, my God. Laugh. That's. That's critical. My daughters and I, we laugh. Daryle Brown [00:22:08]: We have fun together and we laugh a lot. Everybody can't be a comedian and my wife will tell you that I crack myself up. But definitely humor is so critical in any relationship. It just melts the challenges and the difficulties and the differences. So have fun with each other. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:24]: Well, Daryl, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for sharing all that you have shared. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go? Daryle Brown [00:22:32]: Oh boy. You know, I'm. I'm retired and I'm just kind of building my socials in a new direction. So I would say just send me an email for now. Darrell D A R Y L e q@gmail.com my link tree is justice work. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:49]: Well, I truly appreciate you sharing that. We'll make sure to put links in the notes today. And as I mention mentioned, I really appreciate your time. I wish you the best in your farming journey and I look forward to hearing more about what this journey brings. Daryle Brown [00:23:04]: I'll be tapping into you when I get some stuff going. I got a few things. I got eight trees planted. By the way, it's a hell of a lot harder to plant a tree than you think. I got some big pots, I got some wildflowers, little things because I got whole fields I got to worry about. But we'll get to that. Next Thursday we're going to start the cultivating and the tilling and. And it's a farmer's life for me. Daryle Brown [00:23:23]: Oh, that's a pirate's life. Oh, I missed it. Wrong one. Christopher, wonderful. Thank you so much for inviting me on. It's been a pleasure. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:33]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being, being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:24:03]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game. Cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world you down Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can.

The Art of Fatherhood: Lessons in Letting Go and Growing Together

How do you nurture independent, confident daughters while creating a deep, lasting relationship as a father? That's the question at the heart of the Dad and Daughter Connection [https://app.castmagic.io/podcast], hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis [https://www.linkedin.com/in/drchristopherlewis/]—and in a recent episode, guest Art Eddy [https://www.linkedin.com/in/art-eddy/], host of the Art of Fatherhood podcast, shares relatable, hard-earned wisdom every dad (and parent) can appreciate. Cherishing the Small Moments One central theme is the value of everyday experiences—the dinners, shared jokes, and simple activities that reveal how "the small things make the big impact" in your relationship. Art Eddy recounts favorite moments: attending chorus performances, bonding at Bruins games, and even just sharing movie nights or video games at home. These aren't grand gestures, but they're where connection is built. Letting Go and Fostering Independence A recurring challenge, as discussed by both Dr. Christopher Lewis and Art Eddy, is finding the right balance between protecting your kids and gradually letting go. With both dads preparing for daughters to leave for college, they reflect on that poignant "crossroads"—learning to trust the foundation you've laid, and accepting that your children need space to stretch, fail, and grow. Art Eddy shares a particularly touching story about watching his daughter walk a college campus by herself for the first time, a real-life metaphor for this parental transition. The Power of Listening and Honest Conversation Listening—truly hearing your daughter, not just advising her—is another core message. Art Eddy emphasizes "two ears, one mouth—listen more, talk less," offering support when asked, and encouraging self-reflection instead of top-down instruction. This nurtures strong communication and respect, especially as children become teens and young adults. Imperfectly Present Both speakers candidly share their own mistakes, whether it's not asking for help, occasional impatience, or the struggle of balancing technology and quality time. The takeaway? No one is perfect, and being present—putting the phone down, engaging authentically—is what matters most. Fatherhood Is for Every Dad Finally, Art Eddy speaks passionately about celebrating diverse stories, real fatherhood from all walks of life, and creating positive, supportive communities for dads. If you're a dad (or parent) looking for practical wisdom, honest conversation, and plenty of heart—and maybe a few laughs—the Dad and Daughter Connection [https://app.castmagic.io/podcast] is for you. Listen in, and start building those small moments that make the biggest difference. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey [https://bit.ly/daddaughtersurvey] to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter [https://bit.ly/ddcneweletter] to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/DrChristopherLewis], Facebook Group [https://www.facebook.com/groups/dadanddaughterconnections], Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/dadofdivas], LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/drchristopherlewis/], X [https://www.x.com/dadofdivas]. TRANSCRIPT Art Eddy [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]: build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week I love that you show up. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:56]: You're showing up not only to learn, to grow, to be able to be that dad that you want to be, but you're showing up for your daughters. Because every week you have an opportunity to be able to learn something new, to be able to meet new people, people that have gone through what you're going through, people that have something that they can share with you to help you to be that dad that you want to be. That's why this podcast exists. This podcast is here to be able to help you build those strong connections with your daughters who one day at a time. Because it's not always going to be roses, it's not always going to be easy, but showing up, being there, and being willing to put in the work, you're going to have a ton of dividends in the end. That's why every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences, people that can give you some of their own experiences as being either dads, two daughters, or other people with resources that can help you to be that dad. Today we've got another great guest, Art. Eddie is with us. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:55]: Art and I have known each other for a long time. He is a father of two daughters. He's also the host of the Art of Fatherhood podcast. Great podcast. If you haven't listened to it, definitely check it out and we'll be talking about that. But as I said, he's a father of two daughters. So we're gonna learn a little bit more about his own parenting journey, and I'm really excited to have him here. Art, thanks so much for being here. Art Eddy [00:02:17]: Chris, appreciate being on the show. Love the work that you're doing. It's always good to catch up. Even before we started recording, we had like a 30 minute, like, awes podcast of just a reunion podcast. It was so good, man. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:29]: It really was. And we didn't record it. We probably shouldn't have recorded it. Art Eddy [00:02:33]: Yeah. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:35]: But it was still fun. Art Eddy [00:02:36]: Yeah. No, it's good, though, because, like, I miss these connections. I miss, like, you know, I mean, we were just talking about how fast time flies with our, you know, your daughter is in college. My daughter, my oldest. Your oldest is in college. My oldest is going to be going to college in the fall of this year. And it's just like, where'd the time go, man? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:55]: Oh, the time just flies by. I mean, my youngest is going to college this fall, too, so our daughters are my youngest. Your oldest are both the same age, so we'll be going through that together as well. And things change, I tell you. I. I'm. I'm a little nervous about the empty nesting type of thing going on to see kind of what that dynamic brings. It's definitely going to be a lot quieter in the house, and I don't really know what to expect yet. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:23]: So it's gonna be a different situation at home, you know, and your relationship with your significant other is gonna change in different ways because you don't have the kids around to be a part. And the things that you focus your time in also change because for so many years, as you know, I mean, we put all this time and effort into raising our kids to being there for their activities and their. And the things that are important to them. And then as they go away, then we have to, we have to do other things. And, you know, we're focusing back on each other and going back to the beginning and, and really. And it's just different. So it's going to be interesting. Art Eddy [00:04:01]: No, 100%. Like, things, like, all right, how do you do things? Like, my wife and I got a little taste of it a couple weekends ago. Like, my daughters were hanging out with, like, some of their friends together, and they had like a sleepover like a Friday night. And they had something all the way through, like, Saturday. And it was just like, like Saturday night. And my wife, like, this is what it's going to be like, huh? We had, we went to go see a movie. We had like a nice breakfast together on Saturday morning. I was like, this is cool. Art Eddy [00:04:27]: But we also miss, like, it was funny. Like, one of the things, like, I love hanging out with my daughters, but, like, one of the college visits, they separated the, the parents and the kids. The kids were doing like these different, like, one on one interviews with some of the admins and we had the adults, like, getting in this one room to kind of talk and, like, this one, like, couple song. They're like, I can't wait. You know, this is my last kid. And then, like, I get to, like, take care of their room and change it into, like, their gym. We're so excited. And it was like, yeah, I can't wait. Art Eddy [00:04:55]: I'm like, what? I was like, oh, my gosh. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:00]: I can't say that I. I can't wait. I mean, I. I am going to miss having them around. Art Eddy [00:05:05]: Yeah. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:05]: I mean, there are days. I think we both know that there are days. Art Eddy [00:05:09]: Yes. But I had one day yesterday, actually, where I had to go search everywhere for a broken. For a. To replace a broken dryer knob that was like, I didn't want to, like, pay or, like, get some sketchy thing from, like, a secondary source. So like, I found here in, like, North Carolina, a place that, like, sold that stuff. But I had to, like, take time out of my day, then fix it. I was like, ah. I didn't like this. Art Eddy [00:05:33]: My day just got totally upside down. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:36]: I know that you're really engaged with your daughters, and you have had some amazing moments with them throughout their lives. As you think about some of those moments and some of those moments that have been most meaningful for you, what's one of the most meaningful moments that you would say that you've shared with your daughters and what made it so special? Art Eddy [00:05:54]: Yeah, for me, I would probably say, you know, as a collective, when they both are in chorus. So when I see them perform and when my youngest was playing the saxophone, it was great to see that, just to see, like, their achievements and different things. When my oldest got accepted to the college she's going to, which was great. The trials and tribulations, you know as well as I do of, like. Like, when we were going to college, totally different, but, like, the process is totally different, and I appreciate her journey into that. And then my youngest, she and I will go to Bruins games when they play here in North Carolina, and we have those moments where we joke around. And, like, she, like, my youngest and I kind of share the same type of humor. We have different senses of humor, but we share, like, if you have a Venn diagram, certain parts of our humor, like, coexist. Art Eddy [00:06:40]: And so, like, we're at the dinner table, like, one of the things that we always strive to do most of the time, I'd say, like, out of the seven days of the week, probably four to five times we're having dinner together. And we're all talking about our days, and we're just kind of like, learning, like, the ups and downs and stuff. But, like, I'll say something, and my youngest will like, look at me. And we'll just like, have this moment and everyone, like, the other two, like my wife and my oldest, like, what? What? And I'm like, don't worry about it. So it's just like, those are the moments that you cherish seeing my youngest right now, she went to regional for track for her high school, and she got her own personal record, which was awesome to see that. And then I think also too, like, when you hear a teacher or in. In for me, for my oldest, when she gets a compliment or she got, like, employee of the year for the ymca, I was like, that was impressive. Like, those are the things where I'm like, that's awesome. Art Eddy [00:07:31]: And I. I say, like, I'm proud of you. You should be proud of yourself. And we just kind of talk about, like, how they got to that certain spot and stuff like that. So, yeah, there are certain times where you're having to fix a broken dryer knob and you're just frustrated and I don't have any hair, so I can't pull any hair out anymore. But then there's the good. Totally outweighs, like, the. The frustrating parts of being a dad. Art Eddy [00:07:52]: So, like, it's good, but it's just like, just those moments where I can celebrate their wins together with them and share those jokes or share those laughs. Like, my youngest and I went to see Mortal Kombat 2 recently. We had fun, and she got the different jokes from, like, playing Mortal Kombat with me and stuff. So it was just like, it was cool. Like, those moments, the bonding and listen to them, you know, man, like, is. You've talked about this. I love when you have, like, on LinkedIn or different places where you have those, like, five minutes of, like, hey, this is how you can connect to your daughter. Right? Like, I appreciate those because I'm, like, nodding my head listening to you. Art Eddy [00:08:24]: I'm like, yep, I have experienced that too. So it's the small things. And my kids have taught me it's the small things that make the big Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:32]: impact of those memories, really is the small things. And a number of the things that you talked about really make me think about. You've done a really good job of being able to help your daughters as they've been older to become more independent. And you, you're doing a lot to be able to prepare them. You've got your oldest going off to college. And, you know, I've done the same in trying to help my daughters to be able to be those independent people. But that's not always easy. It's not always easy to find that balance between kind of guiding your daughter while also giving them independence. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:06]: How did you do that in your own parenting journey with your daughters? Art Eddy [00:09:10]: It's tough, man, because I think you've heard this probably before on your podcast. We probably had this conversation before, years ago, or at the different conferences we might be at together. But, like, your job is to make sure that you are no longer relevant in their lives anymore in the sense of, like, them needing you. Like, they can, like you said, be independent. And that's tough. But, like, there was one time earlier this year when a metaphor actually came into reality, because you're at that crossroads of, like, letting your daughter or your child be more independent, and they're going off to college and they're going to be their own. I remember we were touring the. The campus of Clemson, and it was when spring break was happening, like, right. Art Eddy [00:09:46]: Right around, like, March Madness. So the campus was, like, empty, according to, like, the people we've talked to. And it was like alumni weekend. So the weekend was kind of, like, busy with, like, alumni and all that other stuff. But, like, there are no kids there. All the buildings, for the most part, are shut down. And we're walking the campus, and my youngest and my wife are kind of, like, looking at this one, like, plaque or memorial. And I'm in the middle between, like, the distance of them and my oldest, who's walking it by herself, and I'm just like, oh, should I run up to her, like, you know, catch up with her and see what she's doing? And I'm like, no, this is something where, like, the metaphor actually is happening in real life, where I'm at a crossroads of, like, maybe it was a brick crossroads, but I'm like, I'm gonna stay here in the middle, wait for my youngest and my wife to catch up, let my daughter do her own thing, because that's what she's going to need to. Art Eddy [00:10:32]: And for me to physically feel that. I was just like, this is life, man. And I think the first time that my wife and I, Reese, like, in, like, I'd say a couple years ago, really got emotional is when our oldest. I'm in the process of teaching my youngest how to drive right now. She's almost done with her hours and requirements. But when our daughter, our first one, went off, drove by herself. Like, it was emotional. This is growing up, but it's also scary out there. Art Eddy [00:10:57]: So those are the things you, like, have to trust. You can't be that helicopter parent you were when you were, like, when they first were learning how to walk. And you're just near them and making. Making sure that they don't, like, fall and hit their head or something like that. But now it's totally different and you're letting the reins go. You have let the reins go for a while now, but it's just those are the moments where life gives you a little push. And it's like you got to make sure that you did the best you could. And I bet you probably when your oldest was going off to college, you're like, did I say everything I needed to say before she left? And it's just, like, frustrating when things pop up and it's like, I'll talk to them later about it, but, like, are you going to find that time? So it is always that struggle of letting go, but also making sure you give them all of your, like, the wisdom you think that they'll need in the future. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:42]: And you're never going to be able to unpack everything. You're never going to be able to give them everything. The way I look at it is, is that what you at least can hope for is that you've given them enough and that you've given them the tools to one, figure out things for themselves, or two, give them the ability to be able to say, hey, I need to call dad. I need to ask and see what he has to say. And know that you're always gonna be able to be there if she needs you. But that at the same time, you want her to fail, you want her to learn, and you want her to grow. Now, speaking of that, in regards to helping your daughters to be able to kind of learn, grow, and be kind of ready for the things that they want in their life. Every one of our daughters has passions, they have dreams, they have things that you talked about. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:34]: Music and track and things that in high school are important to them. But as they get older, they start to up ideas for who do they want to be, what do they want to do? And those become the passion and dreams that they're aiming for. The light at the end of the tunnel, the goals that they've. They've set for themselves. How do you support your daughters in pursuing those passions and dreams? Art Eddy [00:12:55]: Great question. Listening. I think the biggest thing is listening. And when they ask for advice, you can give it and say like, you know, I always preface saying, when I was around your age, things were a little bit different. But there are some similarities. Cliches happen, are there for a reason because they happen throughout eons and all that. I remember one of the podcasts I had, I was talking to a gentleman and he was saying the best advice he got from his father in law is like, things change. Technology changes. Art Eddy [00:13:22]: Everything here and there is like the one thing that's constant is people having babies. In parenthood there hasn't been like this huge advancement in the sense of like yes, certain things through a medical system and all this other stuff. Yes. But it's like for the most part nothing has really changed. So it's like people have been doing it, people have been making mistakes, but the generations are still living on and I think just making sure that you're listening into seeing what they want at that time. There are certain things that I've watched from the quote unquote sidelines being like, that's what they want to do. But I don't see them like having any drive or what I would have done. Like, it's hard to separate what, how I would approach it versus how they would approach it. Art Eddy [00:13:58]: And there's certain times where they've experienced, whether it's through school, I mean they get good grades, great grades, they do really, really well with friends and some other things. But whether it's like managing a budget or sometimes not studying as much, I said, hey, you know, mom and I were saying you should have kind of done this. But like, what did you think? What did you feel? Did you feel like you were online with your friends more than you should have, like playing Roblox or something? Like that's like the whole rage where like after dinner and they get all their work done, they'll stay up for a while and playing out. I'm like, you guys go with everything. Like, yeah. And then there's certain times where like she had to make my youngest or my oldest had to like prepare their lunch for the next day because like I'll get them the ingredients from like you have to, to make it, this is your lunch. If they're running late or something, or not feeling good, sure I'll make them breakfast and all that other stuff. But for the most part you want them to be self sufficient. Art Eddy [00:14:44]: But there are certain times where like you just kind of like smile and wave. And then there's other times you're like, how'd that turn out? And then you don't be like mean or something. But you're like, seriously, like, how did you feel like that worked out? And did you think you could have probably done better? And you just want to give them those learning moments while it's in the moment. If they don't listen to you, that's fine. But then if they succeed doing it their own way, perfect. But if there's other things, like, hey, I might have probably let down, like, I probably would have played less Roblox, my friends online and studied for us a little bit more. But again, like, they get great. They get great grades, but I think sometimes they get ticked off if they get a B or something. Art Eddy [00:15:19]: And it's like, well, like, if you wanted the better results, you needed to put more work in. And they're like, I know that, but we've all had that. This is an adult. There's certain things I kind of need to do X, Y and Z around the house. But there's a new Star wars animated series that just dropped two episodes. I. I'm going to watch that right now. And then my day gets a little pushed on the next day, a little bit more busy just because I kind of should have done stuff on, like, Monday. Art Eddy [00:15:40]: Now it's left for Tuesday, if that makes sense. And so there are certain times where my kids call me out and I'll be like, yeah, you're right. I should practice what I preach. And this time I didn't. So thanks for calling me out. And you want to make sure that you, like, I think nowadays as you see this as well, like, there are so many, whether it's online or in conversations where if someone knows that they're wrong, but they're still, like, trying to prove that they're right. It's like, it's okay to admit that you're wrong and move on, say you're sorry, or like, hey, I should have known a little bit more information before I jumped into that conversation. So those are the things that, like, we have these conversations where, yes, I'm still the parent, they're still the kid, but we. Art Eddy [00:16:13]: As they get older, you're gonna. There's that gap where it's shortening and letting them be more vocal instead of just telling them, like, no, it's bedtime, like when they're a toddler. So those are the things. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:24]: One of the things that that says to me is that none of us are perfect. Right? I mean, our daughters aren't perfect. We're not perfect. We're humans. We might make mistakes, and they may make mistakes. It's about how do you talk about it, how do you communicate, how do you work through it in the end? You know, speaking of mistakes, I know that as fathers, we always make mistakes and we don't always show it, but we do make mistakes. What's a mistake that you've made as a. As a dad, and what did you learn from it about fostering, I guess, more positive communication with your daughters? Art Eddy [00:16:56]: I would say. And I think this maybe is a stereotype or something that dads kind of go through. There's different levels of suffering and silence, but, like, it's like, on a smaller scale where it's most of the time and just with our schedules and stuff like that, even, you know, teaching a class at UNC or, you know, running the Art of Fatherhood, I'm the one that mostly picks up my youngest teaches, like, you know, gets a drive time hours and makes the meals, does the cleaning, does the cooking and all that stuff, because I'm very robotic and I'm very strategic in my weekly. I know Tuesday is going to be cleaning day, and all of a sudden, like, my laundry pattern is down to, like, a science, right? Sometimes I'm going to need help, and sometimes, whether things get, you know, more things get piled on my plate, I don't ask for help. And there are some times where I get frustrated. If someone didn't pick up the thing, I asked them, like, three times in a row, and then like, the fourth time I'm like, fine, I'll just do it myself. And I. And they're like, well, why are you upset? I'm like, because I'm doing everything. Art Eddy [00:17:46]: Like, well, tell us. You need help, right? So, like, I think sometimes asking for help and what stinks is you think, like, we can put all the burden on ourselves. It's not a great model to teach our kids. So that's the thing where it's like, I've messed up a couple times. And that's the thing where maybe in the beginning, as when I became a dad, like, learning how to be patient. Now it's like, I need to, like, ask for help. And that is really hard for me to do because I don't want to burden anybody with stuff I need to do, if that makes sense. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:13]: It does make sense. And you've talked about your podcast a few times, and I want to talk a little bit about that because you've been doing Art of Fatherhood for many years now and probably of fatherhood podcasts that I know of. I think yours is probably one of the longest standing That I know that is still running today, but not everyone has listened to it. And I guess I want to go back in time a little bit first and talk to me a little bit about why art of fatherhood. Why did you decide that you wanted to do this? I know that your background is in radio and in media, and you worked in that for many years, but when you pivoted and you went to create the art of fatherhood, you didn't have to do that. You could have kept doing the radio thing. You could have done something else, but you went all in. So talk to me about that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:56]: Why did you decide to do that? And why have you kept doing it for this many years? Art Eddy [00:19:00]: Yeah, thank you for asking. I appreciate it. I was working in radio. We had our second child, and my wife and I were like, all right, let's. We don't want to go to the daycare route. And again, like, for anybody doing daycare, I'm not. I always feel like I have to say, like, I'm not judging. Like, it was just something like, every family pieces of advice for new dads, if they're listening to this. Art Eddy [00:19:17]: It's like, your family does not have to keep up the Joneses or that Instagram family that looks like everything is glamorous on every photo. But my wife and I were like, yeah, one of us. You need to stay home. And radio wasn't the most secure landscapes in career field. So I was like, all right, I'll be the home dad. And I started writing for, like, maybe Yahoo, Bleacher Report and some other things. Once I started getting my own pattern down of being the stay at home dad and then the different groups, like, you know, meeting you, the dad 2.0 conference. I started working for a fatherhood site, doing a lot of creative and writing stuff, and then started doing the podcast. Art Eddy [00:19:49]: And then that kind of disbanded years ago. And so I'm like, I still want to do this because I have a passion for talking about it. I feel like not only do I love talking about father, but I feel like it makes me a better father because I'm in forest and like, I understand, like, all the different conversations and all the. The conversations that I have and me reflecting on fatherhood as through my writing, I'm like, it makes me better. And I feel like there's a space that you and I are doing this because not just to hear ourselves talk, but we have a passion for making sure that we're not only being good dads ourselves, but highlighting other good dads. And you Want to break those stereotypes here and there of what dads look like. And we're not. We're not looking to create these awesome Instagram accounts. Art Eddy [00:20:29]: And, like, these are the words of wisdom. It's real life fatherhood. And so that's my passion. So I went out on my own, obviously, have a little dad joke in there, the art of fatherhood. And sometimes, you know, people will be like. When emails are like, hey, what's up, Eddie? I'm like, actually, my first name's Art. And they're like, oh, I get it now. It's like, yeah, it's like, so I just love it. Art Eddy [00:20:52]: But it's really, for me, just seeing the different viewpoints of fatherhood. I was just. Last night, I was with. I run at our church, like a men's ministry group, me and a couple other guys. And we try and like, throughout the year, we have, you know, some service events where we'll clean up the church or we'll clean up other. Do other things around community service, but then we'll have fun events. This one was a fun event where we had some pizza. It was just a bunch of guys playing can jam and, you know, talking to just having fun, like pizza, soda, seltzer, all that good stuff, and just hang out at a park. Art Eddy [00:21:22]: And we were just talking about, like, how people pretty much are more connected than they see than they seem on the media, where there's such this great divide, right? And I think for you and I, we're trying to have positive examples of father, but also too, like, we're seeing the connections that we're more similar than we are different, and we're not as divisive as different news organizations want to pin us to be. So my passion is to, like, have a great conversation on fatherhood, positive examples of fatherhood, and a community of dads are looking to do things. Like, I even feel bad we're white guys, right? But, like, you see black dads or other minority dads, maybe in this country or worldwide, have a bad reputation and have, like, go on these stereotypes. I love bringing all guys from different walks of life, whether they're Christian, Jewish, Muslim, whatever the case may be talking about fatherhood in a positive way, seeing that you might look different, but you actually have the same goal of raising great people in this world. We need more of that instead of just looking for clickbait, like. Like, I have seen even parenting sites, and you've probably seen this too, where they create this controversial question just so where they can, like, create more clicks or Whatever. Like, I'm not about that. I'm just. Art Eddy [00:22:34]: You and I are both about positive things. Like, especially people listening to your podcast, you want dads to connect with their daughters in a healthy and positive way. So, like, you and I are on the same page with that. So that's where, like, the art of fatherhood and, like, that's like, what fuels my passion all the time. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:49]: And I know you've had a couple of different podcasts, and in the past, when you were affiliated with the Life of Dad podcast, you had a book with John Finkel called Life of Reflections on Fatherhood from Today's Leaders, Icons, and Legendary Dads. But since then, like you said, going off on your own and having art of fatherhood, you've continued to have those conversations, and I guess you've had many of them. And I'm sure that in those conversations, some trends have popped up, some things have come out where you like. Either one, yep, it reinforces the idea. Or two, you know, I never thought of it that way, and I think all dads need to be thinking about some things in this way. So what are some of those trends? So what are some of those things that you found in all of these conversations that you've been able to have? Art Eddy [00:23:40]: Yeah, great question. Some of the trends are. I mentioned it before when I was, you know, when my kids were younger, like, having patience. I think when I ask, you know, like, a piece of advice for, you know, new dads that I'm asking my guests so that they can offer to them that are listening, it's like, no, it's like, you need to have patience. Everyone's going to work on that. And another thing, too is like, people, like, especially nowadays listening to this finances, right? Like, people think, like, kids are expensive. Yes, kids are super expensive. I think if you have kids in high school and they're kind of on the border of going to college and all this other stuff, like, like, I felt like this was the most expensive year of school and, like, getting ready for college for me and my wife, like, just, just in general of, like, all these different trips, all these different new. Art Eddy [00:24:24]: Like, one of my daughters went to, like, a brand new school and they have the only two classes, sophomore and freshman, and she's a sophomore. So it's just like all the different expenses with this and that, and it's like, like finances. Like, there's always going to be finances, but you find a way. And then two is just the idea of putting the phone down. Like, you hear people say, I need to Put the phone down. I need to put the phone down. And the more and more I hear about that, like, I remember my mom worked in the medical field, like, working for, like, you know, working in, like, in the office space, like, helping out with the doctors and all that other stuff when I was in, like, elementary and middle school and high school. And then my dad worked in the medical device field. Art Eddy [00:25:03]: So, like, he was, like, busy with certain things, but when they got home, they were home. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:08]: Home. Art Eddy [00:25:08]: Chris, I'm. I'm guessing there are certain times for work or for your podcast, there's just other things, like the phone bings and it's like a notification. Even you have no notifications off. You might still like, did I get that email that I was waiting for, for the end of the day? And then you miss that opportunity to talk with your kids. So putting your phone down. Putting your phone down. And that's why we love having, you know, dinner. There's no devices at the table. Art Eddy [00:25:29]: And then there's certain times we'll be watching a show together, or my wife and the girls will go to the gym together. Whatever, whatever. I work out at home. I used to work out at the gym with them, too. But, like, when the pandemic came, I got all the stuff. I'm like, well, I'm just working out here. So, like, that's. That's the, like, I guess the downside, but, like, when I go to the gym as a guest pass, like, they love having you here. Art Eddy [00:25:47]: I'm like, yeah, just whatever. It's just my routine. But I would say those are the trends of, like, putting the phone down. Finances. There's always going to be tough battles that you're going to have, like, make sure you're communicating with your spouse about that and the patient. So those are, like, the trends I see. And then the things that I've learned, like, you're asking me, I'd say, say in terms of finances, I've had guys who are in the financial area and just like, in the industry and. And work and different things. Art Eddy [00:26:11]: And it's just the idea of, like, teaching your kids about money at an early age, I thought was like, man, I wish I kind of did that. I wish I had this conversation when my kids were, you know, 10 and 8 or something like that. Like, they have an allowance. They. We told them how to budget certain things here and there. But there's more certain things. I was like, that would have been better if I told him that. So what about, like, managing finances and having those being, you know, financially responsible. Art Eddy [00:26:36]: And we've been having more and more conversations with that, especially with our oldest as she gets into getting to go to college and all that. I was gonna say getting into the real world, I hate that. I feel like we're always in the real world, but like, it almost like dumbs down our kids experiences because they are in the real world. Going to school, having a part time job, all these other things. So that's why I kind of paused for that. It's like everyone's like, why, why? What was going on there? So I just almost had to catch myself. But I wanted to explain it. But like just the idea of learning the finances, but then also too embracing technology is something that I've kind of had to learn because we always like, I think when you and I were in our heyday, when, you know, I'd say around like 2015, 2016, like dads were having a moment and I remember you and I were kind of doing campaigns on like screen time and digital age and all these other things. Art Eddy [00:27:22]: But if you, you negate your kids learning the technology that's happening around them, but you want to do in a healthy way and there's different ways you can do that, different companies and different apps and all that other stuff. But like if you tell them like, oh, they're not having any screen time, okay, that's fine. Like maybe they're not watching shows. If you teach them about technology, whether it's a smartphone or whether it's an app or something, like developing code or whatever, that's a thing where you got to kind of embrace that. And that was the thing where I was just like, like, oh, screen time. Okay, yes, but how do you manage that? And how do you teach the kids about the future? Because like our, like our parents growing up, their rate of technology change was a lot slower than ours. And the, the rate of technology change for our kids is super fast compared to when we were growing up. You picked up a phone, a landline, and we were online doing like a report on Abraham Lincoln for high school. Art Eddy [00:28:15]: The Internet just got disconnected because someone picked up and had to make a phone call. So I'm just saying like technology and learning how to embrace it and the health, but also talk about the negative sides as well, I think are certain things. And then also too, you see, I don't know if you've read this as well, but a lot of kids are underage, drinking is going down, but now that weed and some other things are available, like that's popping up like Gummies and other stuff. Like, so that's the thing where it's like, how do you. You gotta also be, like, talking about certain things where. When we used to say, like, oh, yeah, you know, weed, that's illegal now. It's legal in certain things in a certain age. Like, how do you teach your kids about that, too? And navigating that space. Art Eddy [00:28:50]: So that's another thing that I've learned talking to some other, you know, dads and moms along the journey, too. If you shy them from everything, then as soon as they get out and expose, they're like, what's this? What's this? It's like, you should have those conversations before things get. When they're out of your home. And like, they're like, I wish dad and mom talked to me more about this. You know? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:07]: Completely understand that. Now. As you think about the future of the art of fatherhood, I ask two questions. One, what's in store if you can unveil and lift the curtain a little bit? But two, who's that elusive guest? Who's the one that you've been. Because you've had a lot of celebrities, you've had sports people, you've had. I mean, you've had a lot of people and had a lot of opportunity to have a lot of people. But who's the unicorn? Who's the one that you've really wanted to have that you've not been able to capture yet? Art Eddy [00:29:37]: Nothing to, like, unveil or nothing, like, behind the curtain, so to speak, for the art of father. I just, again, like, just kind of like you. Like, I see the work that you put in week in and week out in. It's. I wouldn't say slow and steady. It's steady because I don't think the work that you and I do are slow at all. It's just the. The pace that we need to. Art Eddy [00:29:54]: It's steady in terms of this and in the content that people expect from you and I. So, like, that's the thing where I'm like, okay, keep it going. There are some other things I'm trying to maybe work out. Maybe some new columns, some new ideas in terms of maybe the certain questions I ask or whatever. But for the most part, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I appreciate the feedback I get from people and the reviews and the subscriptions, all that good stuff. People, when I talk to them about sponsorships, like, I really love what you're doing. Like, all right, cool. Art Eddy [00:30:19]: The elusive guest, I would say, like, and and it's funny. It's more of, like, being a Jordan fan. My friends are like, when are you gonna get Jordan? Because I've had, like, Mark Ham. I've had. I've interviewed Bo Jackson, Dave Robinson, like, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, like, my sports idols. Like, people I appreciated as a kid growing up. Like, when you get in Michael Jordan, I'm like, do you know how hard it is for people in the sports landscape to talk about, like, to get an interview? I said, like, if it happens, that'd be great. But, like, right now, he's doing this nascar. Art Eddy [00:30:44]: Like, I think most of my friends, especially my friends from high school, being like, oh, I see you interviewed so and so when you get in Jordan, I'm like, thanks, man. Let me celebrate this win first, and I'll try to see if I can get Jordan. So I think that's, like, that was the thing. And teaching at unc, everyone's like, you're gonna get Belichick. And I'm like, unc's huge, man. Like, I. I don't know, like, the. The intricacies of, like, trying to get everybody. Art Eddy [00:31:06]: And I don't want to, like, put that card out there and be like, hey, like, I'm not going to be that guy, right? So it's just the idea of, like, for me, it's Jordan. And like I said, it's mostly my friends being like, cool. You got this person. That's awesome. When's Jordan? I'm like, all right, thanks. So I'd say Jordan, yeah. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:20]: For me, I have always wanted to have Dax Shepard on, and I've tried numerous times. Never been able to get him on. But I love the. How engaged he is as a father of daughters and how protective he is, too. But also, I think he has a lot that he could share beyond what he already shares on his own podcast. I don't know if it'll ever happen, but being someone. He's also from Michigan, so love to have another Michigander and also a good dad on the show. Art Eddy [00:31:49]: But yeah, man, like, I keep again, like, it's always, you gotta keep. And that's another thing you can teach your kids, right? Whether they. They listen to this episode, but they'll see the work that you're putting in and what you want to do, right? And if you get him, then it's like, they will see that win, and it's just like, you might get 75 no's. Sorry, he can't do it. He's busy. Nope, can't do it. But then that's 70 time. He's like, how's next week sound? Is there a good day? And you're like, I'll make it. Art Eddy [00:32:14]: Like, I'll move heaven and earth to make sure this works. So, yeah, I hope you get a man. I really hope you get them. And again, it's just, I think all the things that we try and do, not just in this fatherhood space, but we should share our victories with our kids just so that they know, okay, it is going to take work, I think, especially nowadays with the. I'm talking on both sides of my mouth about social media and technology. But, like, social media, like fomo, exists now because people are seeing other things. I think when we were kids, FOMO promo was like, you. You're riding your bike and you see all your friends at one house with other bikes just standing in the lawn and be like, why don't I get called? Or, why didn't someone get me? Right? Like, now everybody has it right in their face if they, you know, are on social media and stuff like that. Art Eddy [00:32:50]: So, like, there is that grind that a lot of people sometimes don't see that you're putting in. So hopefully you get them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:56]: Man, I appreciate it. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 6. Six more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. You ready? Yep. What's one word, word that describes your relationship with your daughters? Art Eddy [00:33:08]: Communicative. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:08]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? Art Eddy [00:33:12]: Yeah, two ears and one mouth for a reason. Listen more, talk less. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:16]: What's one activity that you and your daughters love doing together? Art Eddy [00:33:19]: I would say any type of, like, video games, whether it's NHL or whether it's Mario Kart or something on the Nintendo Switch. A certain plane like that. Or go and see movies we love, like checking out movies. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:29]: If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Art Eddy [00:33:34]: You're enough. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:35]: And what's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Art Eddy [00:33:38]: How much love you can have for another person. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:40]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Art Eddy [00:33:48]: Talk to your kids on their level. Never say, like, oh, don't worry about this. It'll pass. Understand where they're at, meet them where they are, then they're going to meet you where you are, and you'll have a great relationship. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:59]: Well, Art, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today for being a part of the show, for the work that you're doing. If people want to find out more about you and the art of fatherhood, where should they go? Art Eddy [00:34:09]: Artofatherhood.net podcast comes out every Monday. Different articles throughout the week. But again, I really appreciate the time. I love the work that you're doing. Again, like, our friendship is great and over the years we've like, you know, we can just like text each other or just send, you know, DMs or something like that to make us chuckle. But again, it's really cool to see not just your wins, but also your family's wins, too, and different things that we see out like that you post on social media. But yeah, it's always been a blast and I always appreciate taking time to chat with you, man. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:35]: Same here. And I wish you the best as you get your daughter ready for college and as you transition into being a dad with one daughter in the household. It does change things and it, and it definitely takes a little bit of time and patience, but you'll get there. And as always, thanks again for all that you do. Art Eddy [00:34:54]: Appreciate you, man. Thank you. That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:58]: Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. Art Eddy [00:35:09]: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:11]: to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. Art Eddy [00:35:14]: And don't forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Performer We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make some meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

The Power of Presence: Building Strong Bonds Between Dads and Daughters

What does it mean to truly connect with your daughter? That's the central question explored in the latest episode of the "Dad and Daughter Connection" podcast, where Dr. Christopher Lewis [https://www.linkedin.com/in/drchristopherlewis/] welcomes guest Brandon Smith [https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonsmithtwpt/] for an honest, insightful and at times emotional conversation about fatherhood, mistakes, and building resilient, confident daughters. From the start, Brandon Smith distinguishes between "intended" and "unintended" moments in parenting, emphasizing that the unscripted, everyday experiences often make the deepest impact. Whether it's a trip for just the two of them or sitting quietly in support during a crisis, simply showing up consistently is the anchor of a strong bond. As Brandon Smith shares, "the small moments mattered the most" — a lesson he learned not only in his journey as a dad but also through the advice of other fathers. The episode dives deep into the challenges dads face: resisting the urge to "fix" everything, sitting with difficult emotions, and learning to ask open-ended questions that give daughters the space to vent, reflect, and find their own solutions. Dr. Christopher Lewis and Brandon Smith steer the conversation toward agency, urging fathers to build their daughters' confidence and resilience by empowering them to make decisions — even allowing for failure as an important part of growth. It's not about being perfect. It's about being truly present — listening, apologizing when you get it wrong, and making your child a priority. Brandon Smith reminds listeners that kids are far more forgiving than we think, as long as we're willing to acknowledge our mistakes and keep trying. Traditions, whether as simple as a regular dinner or a unique holiday ritual, also play a role in creating a safe foundation daughters can count on, even as they gain independence. Fathers of daughters — whether your relationship is close or still growing, this episode of "Dad and Daughter Connection" is packed with real advice, vulnerable stories, and practical tips to help you show up as the dad your daughter needs. Ready to deepen your connection? Tune in to the full episode and join Dr. Christopher Lewis and Brandon Smith on the journey to raising strong, independent women. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week I love that you come back. You come back to learn, to grow and to find new ways to be able to build those intentional connections with your daughter. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:06]: And it's so important because we have to show up. We've got to show up every day. We've got to learn from the things we do well. We got to learn from the things that we mess up on as well, because there's going to be times that are going to go perfectly and then other times where we'll. They may be an epic fail. And that's okay. That the fact that you do show up, the fact that you do come back and you're willing to, to learn and to hear others stories about their journeys says a lot about you and it says a lot about where you want to be as a father. This podcast is here to give you some help, some perspective, some thoughts on fatherhood. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:42]: Every week I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that have gone through their own fatherhood journey and they're still going through their fatherhood journey. And today we got another great guest. Brandon Smith is with us today and Brandon is a return guest, I'm going to say, in some aspects, not he wasn't a return guest from this podcast, but for those of you that have been listening to me for a while, you know that I had another podcast called Dads with Daughters, and Brandon's a past guest from that show. So if you want to find that episode, go over to fathering together, you can check that out. It's still out there. And he'll add some hot sauce to your fatherhood as well. And I'll leave it at that because and tease that out. But I'm really excited to be able to have Brandon on. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:26]: We're going to be talking about his own journey with his daughter. And I look forward for you to get to know him as well. Brandon, thanks so much for being here today. Brandon Smith [00:02:33]: Chris. I'm thrilled to be on and I love, I love what we're going to be talking about here today. I'm very, very passionate about it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:38]: You know, one of the things that I love starting off with when I think about fatherhood is all of us as dads want to create those meaningful moments where we, we truly are able to, to connect with our daughters. What's one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with your daughter thus far and what made it so special? Brandon Smith [00:02:58]: So I'm going to answer that in two ways. So there was the intended moments where you get to plan them, but then there's the unintended moments that you, that you don't get to plan them. I would argue the unintended moments are probably more impactful. But let's talk about the intended moments. So I've got three kids. My daughter Abby is my oldest. She's 24. She's graduated, working a full time job. Brandon Smith [00:03:18]: She's doing great. We'll talk more about that then. I have a son who's Noah, who's 21, and then a son Aaron, who's 18. Well, whenever my kids were 12, I would always take them, just me and that kiddo, to Disney World, just me and that one kid. So we could just do whatever they want to do. They didn't have to negotiate rides and restaurants with their siblings. And we just get that time together. And I kind of kept that tradition going with Abby. Brandon Smith [00:03:38]: So when she went off to University of Georgia, she was in a sorority. The nice thing about sororities is they have a lot of planned events. So they've got like parent weekends, but then they have mommy daughter weekend and then they have a daddy daughter weekend. So I did that with her every year. So there was always times I was going there, just me and her for weekends and time together. And then even during her summers when she was doing internships and things, you know, she would, we would find time for just she and I to meet up in the city some where and just kind of explore together. So there was those schedule times which I think were really, really important. I would argue that the most important times were the times when she was in crisis. Brandon Smith [00:04:11]: And I just sat with her. I was just with her, just being present, not trying to solve it, not trying to offer advice, just sit and listen. And that's really hard now to be fair. We haven't Talked much about my background. I have a slightly unfair advantage. I was trained as a clinical therapist, so I do bring that to bear. So I know how to ask questions and listen and do kind of reflective, which does help. But I think those moments were probably the most important, and there were several. Brandon Smith [00:04:38]: There was one where when she was graduating from college and there had been a death in her sorority, it really rattled my daughter. And on top of that, she had broken her leg, and she was a big runner, so she couldn't run. That was her stress relief. Let me tell you, Chris, I'm not sure if I'd want to go relive that weekend with her, but it was an impactful one because I just got to sit there with her while she just kind of raged and vented and just had all those emotions just kind of flood. I once heard somewhere that part of the role of the difference between kind of dads and daughters, or men and women, husbands and wives, and in those dynamics, women are often like the waves of the ocean. They kind of come and go. And sometimes when two. When a wife and a daughter kind of come together, sometimes those waves can create some storms. Brandon Smith [00:05:18]: Men are kind of like the rock wall on the side of the coast, and the water's supposed to kind of hit it, but not move it. So we're kind of almost supposed to be there kind of that steady, steady, consistent force. I don't know why that image has always stood out for me, but I know that there's been moments when I've been that kind of that. That rock wall and just allowed her to just kind of vent and rage and not be overwhelmed by that. The most impactful. So a long answer to your question, my friend. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:41]: Not a problem at all. You know, I have heard what you said earlier about being willing to just sit and listen from many people and not to solve. And that's not an easy thing for dads to always do. It tends to take a little bit of reprogramming in our brains to be able to get to that point. Talk to me about that for yourself. And I know you said you have a unfair advantage, so maybe you can give some advice for dads that are struggling with that in regards to what either you had to do or what you might recommend that dads do, to be able to reprogram their brains, to be able to be more of those quiet listeners versus the solvers. Brandon Smith [00:06:20]: I think the first thing is to recognize that those emotions don't mean that something's broken or something's wrong. So the Things that we want to not do is either jump in and say, no, you must not feel this way. You must feel this way. Trying to change what they're feeling. Not a good idea. That's really bad. Dads and daughters, moms and daughters, not good. You don't want to do that. Brandon Smith [00:06:38]: Second, it's okay to sit in that discomfort. I know it was my own case of. With my father, he was very different. He could not handle any kind of uncomfortable emotion at all. There was if I. If you just got excited and passionate about a topic at dinner, he'd get up and leave the dinner table. He's gonna handle it. And my entire life, if I talked to my dad, he'd stick his hand out in my face, wave it back and forth, and he'd say, stop talking. Brandon Smith [00:06:57]: None of my business. He really just couldn't handle that. So I would encourage dads first to just be okay with sitting there. You don't have to fix it. And. And that negative energy isn't going to hurt you or hurt them. We need to give them a safe space to let it out. So that's first. Brandon Smith [00:07:14]: Second step. How do you help them let it out? It's by asking a lot of questions and just reflecting back. Just. Just by saying things like that sounds really hard. How are you doing with that? And just letting them go or say, wow, that is just. That's a lot. Or one of the great therapist lines, which you can always use in your playbook, works really well in life. Say more about that. Brandon Smith [00:07:32]: You can never go wrong with. Just say more about that. And you can start off by saying that. That guys, that sounds really hard. Say more about that. What's the hardest part? So really sit in it now. Where dads are going to go wrong. Another part where they're going to go wrong is they're going to go, so how do you think we need to fix it? You don't need to do that. Brandon Smith [00:07:46]: You don't need to jump to fixing it. Just let them go. Let them go until that energy really starts to wane. Now, to be fair, my daughter's grown up with me, and she has very good skills like this. So there's times I was doing that with her on that moment, I told you, and she said to me, I know what you're doing. Stop it. So I had to pivot. And one of the ways for my daughter that works really well is when I then get vulnerable, talk about something I'm struggling with in my life, or I get really kind of authentic. Brandon Smith [00:08:12]: She connects really well to that my daughter has never done, she came out this way. She's never done well with people being not performative but, but, but not being real, not really saying what's really going on. She cannot handle that. So she actually does really well with me just kind of being open and honest and just calling things the way they are. That actually settles her down. So just having some more of that honest dialog and just being present and not trying to change it. I think those are, those are the moments. And she'll say today, she'll say, you know, one of the things I'm most proud of, she'll say if Brandon Smith me says he's going to be there, he's going to be there. Brandon Smith [00:08:42]: And as a dad that's really meaningful. I'm feel myself even getting tearing up a little bit just saying that because what dad doesn't want to hear their kiddo say that? So I would say those are probably two good tips. Just learning to be comfortable in that and then learning how to just ask questions to help it release. By helping it release, you're fixing it. So I think that's probably the last thing I'd say. For dads, you don't have to have a plan of action with three steps or five steps or a phone call you're going to make today. It doesn't have to be that clear cut. Just by helping that emotion go, it'll make a difference. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:08]: As our daughters are born, for many years they, they rely so much on us and as they get old they become more and more independent. How did you balance guiding your daughter while also giving her the independence that she needed to be able to grow into the person that she has become? Brandon Smith [00:09:28]: It's a really good question. And this is where we often. So in my professional world, I take a lot of my coaching background and my counseling background and bring it into the workplace and helping leaders get better and those sorts of things. Do a lot of executive coaching kind of work and, and what I think makes this so challenging, it's kind of like leadership is an art and a science. Parenting is an art and a science. I mean every, every K is a little different. Every situation's a little different. There's no one size fits all. Brandon Smith [00:09:51]: Sometimes you got to pivot with your recipe. And so where it's tricky is I'm always trying as a parent, I'm always trying to instill agency. It's my favorite word. If you ask me, my favorite word on this planet is it's agency. And for those of you that don't kind of know the word agency. What we're talking about when we're talking about agency for a person, when you have a sense of agency, it's almost like you tell yourself, I'm enough in the world. I'm not perfect. No one's perfect. Brandon Smith [00:10:13]: But I'm enough. I can get through it. And we have high levels of agency. We have competence and confidence, and we have resilient, and we handle change well. Change doesn't overwhelm us. What we don't have when we have high levels of agency is heightened anxiety. Anxiety is the absence of agency. So if you got a really anxious kiddo, just really fearful, kind of struggling with dealing with life, agency is a great antidote. Brandon Smith [00:10:35]: I'm always trying to instill that. So the way you instill that is you ask a lot of questions. So, wow, that sounds really hard. Well, what do you think you can do about that? What do you. What do you think you need to do? How do you think you can solve that? How can I help you with that? But you're. But you're putting the answers, you're putting the solutioning, you're putting the authorship on that, kiddo. So book I published in 2022 is called the author versus editor dilemma. That's a lot to do with workplaces and leadership and management. Brandon Smith [00:10:57]: But I always do a chapter in every one of my books on parenting, and there's even a chapter in Author editor about that. Like, when should I sit in the author seat and tell them what to do? When should I sit in the editor seat and they tell me what they're going to do and then I can respond to that. So you want them to have that agency, all solutions to problems. That sometimes means they're going to fail, and that is okay. Where we need to kind of watch closely is we don't want the failure to be catastrophic. Failures are good. That's when you learn. We learn the most in times of failure. Brandon Smith [00:11:22]: My midd kiddo, he just went through the college internship process this year. It's been really tough on college students and interns to find internships this year. It's a tougher cycle. He had a couple lined up. He waited too long. The offers exploded on him and he had to scramble. And my wife and I were thinking how we could help him. Well, he ended up coming up with an internship on his own. Brandon Smith [00:11:40]: He found one, and he's loving it. And I think the fact he recovered on his own, I mean, that's really what you want. You Want that level of agency. So all that to say, you know, you're trying to equip them to solve problems on their own. You're going to support them. And even when my kids were little, they come home and say, oh, the teacher's being me. The teacher's bullying me. It triggers that inner parenting instinct. Brandon Smith [00:11:58]: You want to jump in and say, talk to that teacher. I always stopped myself and said, I'm not going to do that. And I would say, what conversation do you think you need to have? I know you can do it. I believe in you. And I said, I've got your back. I've got air cover for you. It doesn't go well, you can call dad. Dad will jump in. Brandon Smith [00:12:12]: Dad will fix it, but why don't you take the first crack? I did it with all my kids. I never had to have a conversation with the teacher. They would go back and they had it on their own because I was trying to again equip them to the agency. And also, those are great skills. You're gonna have to have a conversation with your boss one day. Why don't you learn that now? So then when you have to neg negotiate your salary or say you can't work on the weekend, you learn how to do that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:30]: Those are great examples. And I think, you know, I've. I feel like I'm going through a lot of those myself with my daughter that's in college right now and figuring out, okay, where do I push, where do I pull, where do I just sit back? And that as you kind of talked about the author role or not. And so that's always a challenge. And I think it always continues to be a challenge as you sit back and you're like, I've been there. I've done that. You can learn from me, but you may need to make these mistakes yourself. And I get that too now, talking about intentional things and thinking in my head of what you just said. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:04]: Some of the things that we do are very intentional. What are some intentional ways that you've worked throughout your daughter's life to be able to strengthen that bond that you had with her, especially during those challenging times. Brandon Smith [00:13:16]: So my daughter's a lot like a cat. You have to let her come to you. If you try and go to her too quickly, it's not going to go very well. So being intentional, I think, is really important. I will say this. I think going back to the word agency, I often joke with my wife. My daughter kind of came out of the womb just frustrated because she didn't have any agency because she's 4 and she wants to do stuff. She's 8 and she wants to do stuff. Brandon Smith [00:13:36]: She's 12 and she wants to do stuff, and she can't. And it got frustrated. Well, now she's 24 and she works for a consulting firm, and she can do all the stuff. So I think that's helped a lot. But I will say the hardest time for us was probably those high school years where it was the most pressure. And every year she went off to college, her feelings towards us improved, her connection towards us improved on her own, she made those things happen because I think she was just seeing her friends and some of their dynamics with their parents, and she realized we're not so bad. And every time she called, we always made that time for her. So she calls my wife every day. Brandon Smith [00:14:10]: She talks to my wife every day. But she knows she can call me and I will drop whatever I'm doing if she calls me. So I think part of it is just being present with her, not being too pushy, but, you know, letting her come to me. The other thing was I always schedule time with her, and I always tell her, you are one of the most important people and most important relationships in my life. I really want to make sure we get to spend time together. And I find things that my kids like. My daughter likes to go to nice restaurants. She likes to try new food. Brandon Smith [00:14:32]: So we'll go try the local Portuguese restaurant, or we'll try the Persian restaurant or whatever happens to be. And so now that she's on her own and she's figuring out career stuff and life stuff, we try to do quarterly dinners. So we'll do quarterly dinner. She's still in Atlanta. I live in Atlanta. So we'll meet up for dinner somewhere and just have a nice dinner and just talk about life, Talk about her career, her boyfriend, all the other things. I think it's a little bit of both. It's always kind of being there when they want to come to you. Brandon Smith [00:14:57]: That's an intention and making them a priority. So that's kind of more of a firefighter on call kind of intention. When the phone rings, I answer it. But there's also keeping that connected. And I think when you plan something with someone, you're signaling to them that they're a priority. So when I tell my daughter, you mean a lot to me, and our relationship is very meaningful. I want to spend time with you. I'd love to take you out to dinner. Brandon Smith [00:15:15]: She never turns me down. So those are Some examples. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:18]: I love those examples. And I try to have similar things with my own daughters. And I know that it makes a difference. Sometimes they say it, sometimes they don't. And you have to know that. That you just have to realize that even if they don't say it, it still matters. Now, none of us are perfect. We all make m mistakes. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:37]: What's a mistake that you've made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering a positive connection with your daughter? Brandon Smith [00:15:44]: Oh, goodness. I'm going through my very large inventory of mistakes, Chris. So if I'm pausing, it's because, wow, kind of a lot. Well, I would say I've done the opposite of a lot of things I've said. Like, I pushed on her too hard, pushed on solutions, pushed, pushed on answers, pushed for answers. That doesn't go well with her. So that's not good. But on the flip side, sometimes I don't come to her when she's upset. Brandon Smith [00:16:06]: That gets her really mad. So if she's upset, upset, and she's sending all the signals that she's upset, and I'm not going to her saying, hey, you seem upset. And maybe I just don't want to deal with it. I'm going to be honest. Maybe it's just one of those times where I'm really tired. I don't have much in the tank. Like, I can't deal with her just, you know, her upsetness today, that makes her more angry because I'm not coming to her and acknowledging how she's feeling. So I think there's a lot around those things. Brandon Smith [00:16:27]: Yeah, it's tricky. Parenting is such a startup experience. Fail fast or fail forward. You're always trying to adjust. So, you know, I can tell you another great example, like when she was in high school and applying to colleges and she wasn't getting the SAT score she wanted and she had one last shot, I mean, take the sat and like, I think it was October of your junior year last time. She could really take it and have it count. And she was procrastinating on studying for that, studying for that, studying for that. And whether this was good or bad to me, I'm not sure. Brandon Smith [00:16:52]: But I finally told her, I said, look, you don't have to study for it. You can keep your same SAT scores, and then you're going to go to this slate of colleges and they're all perfectly fine. But if you want to go to this slate of colleges, you're going to need to get that SAT score up. So you're going to make a choice. And I said, if you want to go here, you're going to have to do some studying, which means you can't go off doing brunches on the weekend with your friends. You can't do that. You got studying to do. You're running out of time. Brandon Smith [00:17:12]: Time. Well, she went off. She said she wanted to do that. She wanted the other schools. She wanted a better score, but she kept doing the brunches. So finally, I had to go in one day and say, I'm sorry, Abby. I hate to do this. I'm your dad. Brandon Smith [00:17:22]: I want to honor your request of what you want. I'm grounding you for the next two weeks. You're going nowhere. You can study. That's what you can do. Now, I don't know if that was the right decision or not. She did end up getting the score that she needed at the end of the day, so just barely by the skin of her teeth, but she got that score. But that was an example where I had to step in and ground her on something that she said she wanted, but she wasn't living up to her own expectations of herself. Brandon Smith [00:17:45]: So. I don't know. Plenty of times I've lost my temper with my kids. But I will say this. One of the big things I did learn in life is your kids really want to have a relationship with you. They are actually way more forgiving than we give them credit for. But they will not be forgiving if you don't apologize. You have to be the first one to go say, I'm sorry. Brandon Smith [00:18:02]: Dad screwed up. I shouldn't have handled it the way I did. I promise I'm not going to do that again going forward. And she. And she had a moment with me a few years ago. It was Christmas, and my wife and I were kind of in a little bit of a spat. And it was happening on Christmas Day, and my daughter was not happy about that. And so she came over to me and she pulled me aside, and she's like, what's going on? She was really upset, and I committed to her. Brandon Smith [00:18:20]: I said, I'm sorry. You're right. This shouldn't be happening on Christmas Day. I'm going to fix it. It's not going to happen again. And that's what I did. But you got to be willing to say you're sorry, and you're got to be willing to adjust. And if you do that, our kids aren't expecting perfect from us. Brandon Smith [00:18:31]: They're expecting, like, that effort that we're trying so when you say you're going to make a change, you make the change. But they don't expect perfect. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:37]: And what do you do intentionally to make your daughter feel valued and heard? Brandon Smith [00:18:43]: I saw an interview with Reese Wither Witherspoon at some point and she, she made a comment and dad, the words that a dad says to their daughter, it's like permanent marker on their brain. And so I always want to feed her in that way. My daughter, you know, she doesn't have a lot of money, but she likes to kind of get good fashion. So there's like you could all these services, you rent clothes and she'll run clothes, she'll come downstairs and she'll be wearing a new dress. And I'll say, oh Abby, that dress is beautiful on you. You look absolutely just beautiful. And she's like, oh, thanks dad. But I know that's, I know that's feeding into her self conscious and her level of confidence about herself or self talk. Brandon Smith [00:19:15]: I always tell her, you've got great skills, you've got great intuition on people. So I really look, lift up and reinforce her strengths. So not only does she feel kind of seen, but I'm also trying to tell her, you've got some great things, don't lose those. So those are things I really try to be intentional about in my talk with her and also trying to give her support and guidance. Now sometimes it also means not answering her questions. So the recent one she was doing was she's got a boyfriend who she really likes and we really like. And she's asking me, she's saying, dad, I mean, what do you think? I mean really, what do you think? I mean, do you think he's a good fit for me? I mean, and we like him. And she had a particular thing she was asking about. Brandon Smith [00:19:49]: I said, you know, Abby, that's not my answer. That's not for me to answer. It's a question for you to answer. And I laid out some scenarios and things for her. I said, but it's not for me. She kept pushing on me, pushing on, trying to get me. I wouldn't answer. I wouldn't, wouldn't answer. Brandon Smith [00:20:00]: A few days later she came to my wife and she said, tell dad I'm sorry for pushing him so hard. I was having a, it's one of the phrases that you probably heard your daughter say recently. She's like, I was having a crash out and I was pushing dad a little too hard and I, I shouldn't have been telling actually everything's okay. I'm fine with my boyfriend. So I think knowing sometimes when not to insert your opinions is also important. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:21]: You don't want to have those insert foot in mouth moments as you're talking to your daughters and, or having to backpedal. So sometimes being silent or as you said, kind of pushing back and allowing for them to work it through probably makes a lot of sense. Brandon Smith [00:20:36]: It reminds me there was a Seinfeld episode where, you know, I think, I can't remember, maybe Kramer had a girlfriend that no one liked. And so they all told him he broke up and we're like, oh, we don't like your girlfriend. And then they got back together. Then now it was awkward because they told Kramer we don't like your girlfriend. But now he's back with her girlfriend. So I think there's times when you just have to some things or for them to figure out. And frankly, if she's happy, that's, I mean, that's one of the things we're going for. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:00]: And how did you support your daughter in pursuing her passion and dreams? Brandon Smith [00:21:04]: It's a challenging one. So in high school, she would come at my wife and me and she'd say, you guys put high expectations on me. You hold me an unfair standard. And it's funny, Chris, we never did. We never did. We never did. My wife and I are little, a little Gen X in how we raise our kids. We're a little, wouldn't say feral, but a little more. Brandon Smith [00:21:23]: More like that in this way. We Never had life, 360 on any of our kids. We didn't track them where they go. We never, once they got into high school, we never looked at the report cards again. Now I've never seen a report card for my kids in high school or college because what I told them was I said, your grades are your grades. And my expectation is you work hard and own and be proud of whatever grade you get. If you got a C and you didn't work hard, then decide to make an adjustment. But if you got a C and you gave it everything you got, that's great. Brandon Smith [00:21:47]: So I think part of it is setting that, pushing kind of that ownership and agency properly on them. It's your life. Your grades are the beginning of that, but it's just going to evolve into more decisions that are yours. I think the second thing is I'm always trying to remind her and reinforce to her what her natural gifts are, what her natural gifts and talents. I think so hard she's trying to fit herself into a box. Like when she was in high school, she took a lot of computer science classes because she thought, oh, I'm a girl, I should take computer science classes because it'll round me out. It was not her love language. It's not her love language and she would tell you that. Brandon Smith [00:22:17]: But she has a lot of great love languages that she's really passionate about. And I'm always trying to remind her of that because she's in this early part of her career where she's trying to figure out what does she want her career to look like. And so I'm trying to encourage her to pursue those areas where she says more natural strengths and passions because it will. It'll play out in a much, much more fulfilling way for her. So I think it's just lifting those things up. That doesn't always mean that she hears it in the moment. I think that's another important thing too. Like, if dads are looking for kind of, I do this and I get an immediate kind of response. Brandon Smith [00:22:47]: It's not, it's not like that. I often, I'll chat in my author editor book and you want to talk to my clients when they're like, doing too much for their teams. I'll say to them, are you trying to win an mvp? Are you trying to win a world championship? Because are two very different muscles. And I think sometimes as dads, we're trying to win MVPs, like, we want the immediate hug and the gratification in the moment, like we just scored a touchdown. And really we should probably be thinking about more like winning a world championship because, like, those are lag indicators. You don't really know how well you're doing until you start to get further into the season. Then you got to get in the playoffs. So touchdowns don't. Brandon Smith [00:23:18]: The touchdown itself doesn't really matter. So I'm getting more of the payoff way after the fact from her. Not in the moment. And sometimes she'll dismiss my comments in the moment. But I know I'm planting seeds. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:27]: What's one way you show your daughter that she can always count on you? Brandon Smith [00:23:31]: I would say the simple answer is if she knows. And she's very respectful of this. She knows if she calls me during the day, I'm going to answer as quickly as I can. If I have to call her back, I will. And I will then clear my calendar to whenever she wants to talk. I will cancel other business calls that I have to make that time for her. Now she does, she does not abuse that. She's very, very respectful of that and sometimes I'll tell her I'm tied up, I can't have a public, let's talk tonight. Brandon Smith [00:23:55]: But I always try and make her a priority when she needs to talk. And so I think that's the number one way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:00]: And when you think back to relationship with your daughter in the past now, what's a tradition or routine that you've created together that really strengthens your bond? Brandon Smith [00:24:12]: I think there's a couple, one for sure is are just going out to dinner together. We love to do that and traveling together. When my daughter and I did our 12 year old trip to Disney, we stayed at a different kind of Disney hotel. And we just walked around all the hotels one night and she picked out what she's like, oh, I love this one. We should stay here from now on as a family. And sure enough, that's what we started doing. So I think finding things that your daughter likes that you can share with her is really good. And that can be a variety of things. Brandon Smith [00:24:36]: My daughter, she likes sporting events because she likes to sit with people that she cares about and have conversations, but she doesn't actually care about the event itself. But she'll go because she likes to have that time together. I think finding those things that we can do, I think are definitely one. And then we have other traditions that we've always done as a family, which she actually appreciates. We always try to have dinner together as a family as much as we could. We thought this was normal. Apparently it's weird. We live in Atlanta, so we live in the Southeast, but every Christmas Eve after church we go to Waffle House. Brandon Smith [00:25:02]: Waffle Houses are Christmas Eve tradition. And just things like that that she really likes, I think it provides a lot of that stability. I'll also say, like as I mentioned to you before, my daughter was never very touchy feely. Like she was never like daddy's little girl in the sense that she just worshiped me and always wanted to spend time with me. But that has gotten more and more as she's gotten older. Last time she was over to her house, she gave me probably three hugs before she left the house. And so I do think that, you know, it's definitely a marathon and a long race, more like trying to win a world championship than it is winning an mvp. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:31]: Now we always finish our interview with what I like to call our dad connection. Six, six more questions that delve into you as a dad. Are you ready? What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughter? Brandon Smith [00:25:42]: And this isn't Meant to be creepy, but I really like this word. It's intimate. We cover the can. I'm open and honest and things I'm kind of working through. She's open and honest with things she's working through. So there's just a commitment, openness with sharing. Kind of our. We're very authentic. Brandon Smith [00:25:54]: We're vulnerable. We share needs and wants. We just, we're just have a very open relationship. So I would say that what's the Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:59]: best piece of dad advice that you've ever received? Brandon Smith [00:26:04]: I would say the best piece of d. Bad advice I ever received actually came from a client of mine. And it was because he had worked a very long career with a big company. It's a privately held company. He wasn't going to get the CEO job. He was right below it. So he decided to retire and he traveled all the time. And one day his kids told him and he made it a point. Brandon Smith [00:26:22]: He was like, I was always going to be there for the big events. I'm always going to be there for the soccer matches and the award ceremonies. And he would fly back in town, he'd go to those events and he thought like, ah, being a great dad. And then his son one day said to him, he said, dad, you were always there for the big moments, but you were never there for the small ones. And the small ones mattered the most. O so I do think the soccer matches really don't matter. They really don't. The dining room table, that matters more. Brandon Smith [00:26:45]: The being able to like go in your kids room when they're sad and crying and just sit with them. That matters way more than seeing their baseball tournament or their dance recital. I'm not saying those things are bad. I'm not saying you should dismiss them. But it's not the same thing because frankly we over index on that stuff. We're like, ah, I was with them. Dance recital. You were sitting in an Auditorium. Brandon Smith [00:27:03]: Auditorium 20ft away from your kid. You weren't talking to them, they weren't talking to you. They were doing something and you were watching. It's not much different than watching your kid play video games. It's really not any different. It's not connected. But we tend to think it's some kind of connection. So I think those small moments are the key. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:17]: What's one activity that you and your daughter love doing together? Brandon Smith [00:27:21]: Definitely restaurants. That's an easy one to plug in. Travel. She's always game for travel. So if I said let's go to a city and then I'll and I let her plan it, and we go around and do things. Things, that's great. So I think those are things that she loves to do that I like to do, too. So those are the two big ones. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:34]: If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Brandon Smith [00:27:39]: Be true to yourself. It's probably cliche, but what that really means is understand how you're hardwired and find a swim lane that honors that. Life's much easier and more fulfilling. If you go in the direction of the current, you're already wired to go down. If you try and force it and fake it and go down another path, you're not going to be happy. If you try and chase other things, you're also not going to be happy. So I think just finding, really get a good understanding of who you are, figure out, plug that into the world, you're going to feel a lot, a lot better. And I think that's hard for daughters today because there's a lot of pressure. Brandon Smith [00:28:06]: You should be a career woman, and you should put off having kids. And that is a choice for some women. They can do that. But some women might decide, I want to have a family. And there's not as, maybe as much discussion and balanced conversation on different options for women. So I think today, ironically, it's kind of like almost gone the other way. It's like, you got to have a career, you got to make as much money as possible. And I know she's felt pressured to do that, and she's adjusting what she wants, so being able to help in that process. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:30]: And what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Brandon Smith [00:28:38]: Two quick ones. So first I would say tell them that. Tell them that I want to build a relationship with you. You are one of the most important people in my life. I would love to explore what that might look like or how we could do that. So I think that's one second that I mentioned earlier. The secret sauce to all this is being able to apologize. That's the equivalent of fail fast in the entrepreneurial world or fail forward. Brandon Smith [00:28:56]: Apologize dies quickly. When you make a mistake, go in quickly and be like, I screwed up. Dad screwed up. I'm sorry. Here's why it happened. But it's not going to happen again. They will quickly forgive you. But if you don't do that, that emotion will see them fester. Brandon Smith [00:29:08]: And then that's when you get World War iii. And daughters are good at waging World War iii. If necessary so you can avoid that with a quick apology. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:16]: Now, if people want to find out more about you, where should they go? Brandon Smith [00:29:20]: Yeah, the simplest place is just Google the workplace therapist. That's my handle. So you can Google the workplace therapist. I'm the only one. Well, there's one other person in Australia now, but I'm the only other one. So you'll look for the guy not in Australia and you'll find me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:34]: Well, Brandon, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here and thank you for sharing this journey that you've been on with your daughter. I know it's not over, it's definitely going to just continue. But I truly want to say thank you for sharing this and I wish you all the best. Brandon Smith [00:29:49]: Thank you. Thank you for all the great work you do for dads out there trying to be better. So thank you for having me. That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:06]: It's about being present. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:09]: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time. Keep showing up, keep connecting and and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Performer We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers? We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents? Bring your A game? Cause those kids are growing fast? The time goes by just like a dynamite blast? Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men? Get out and be the world to them Be the best, best dad you can be? Be the best dad you can be.

Building Lasting Bonds: Intentional Fatherhood with Adam Angel

In this powerful episode of the "Dad and Daughter Connection" podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Adam Angel, father, therapist, and founder of the Dads with Wisdom community. Together, they explore what it really means to show up for your daughter—not just as a parent but as a vulnerable, intentional human being. A recurring theme in their conversation is intentionality. Adam Angel shares touching stories about helping his daughter face challenges, like her anxiety before a swim test and building confidence in new activities like basketball and jiu jitsu. Instead of forcing outcomes, he strives to give her the safety and encouragement to try, fail, and choose for herself. As Adam Angel reveals, "I want you to see what it could look like...I'll show you, and you can tell me if you want to do it after you try." The episode delves deeply into supporting your child through difficult moments, embracing open conversations about emotions, and being honest with your kids about your own struggles. Adam Angel reflects on the need for dads to be "open-hearted and willing to not just be wrong, but to be able to learn from her, and also grieve or struggle through something with her." These moments of honesty, he suggests, build trust and teach kids about resilience and empathy. Another core lesson: connection isn't always about grand gestures; it's often found in the consistent, day-to-day presence—whether it's attending basketball games, settling in for bedtime, or making one-on-one smoothie dates. Adam Angel emphasizes that just "showing up and being there" in both small and big ways tells your daughter she can count on you. This episode doesn't shy away from tough realities, either—like how admitting mistakes and apologizing as a parent strengthens bonds, or the challenges of allowing your child independence in a world that sometimes feels unsafe. Lastly, the conversation highlights the importance of community and vulnerability for dads. Through his Dads with Wisdom groups, Adam Angel sees firsthand the transformative impact of men supporting each other, breaking cycles of isolation, and learning together. If you're a dad—or anyone invested in raising confident, emotionally healthy daughters—this episode offers a wealth of practical wisdom and heartfelt encouragement. Listen now and be inspired to connect more deeply, both with your child and yourself. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have an opportunity to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters one day at a time. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:03]: I love being able to have you here every week because it is an opportunity. It's an opportunity for you and I to be able to learn and grow together. You know, I've got two daughters, you have daughters, and you're here. And I applaud you for that. Because by showing up, that's saying something. Because that means that you do want to create a stronger, more lasting relationship with your daughter. And that's why this podcast is here. This podcast is here to help you, to give you some tips, some tricks, some tools for your toolbox to help you to be that dad that you want to be. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:37]: I love being able to introduce you to different people, different people with different experiences that can give you some help along the way, give you some perspective about things that might have worked, maybe they didn't work, but it will help you to be able to frame how do you want to show up for your daughter. So I am really excited because we are having a brand new guest here today. Adam angel is with us. And Adam is a father of two. He's got a. He's got a son and a daughter, and we're going to be talking about his daughter, of course, but we're also going to be talking about a community that he has been building over a number of years called Dads With Wisdom. And it's an. It's a community that you might want to check out yourself, so we'll learn a little bit more about that as well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:22]: Adam, thanks so much for being here today. Adam Angel [00:02:24]: Thanks for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:25]: I'm really excited to be able to have you. And for full transparency to everyone. Adam has been on a previous podcast with me. So my old in my past podcast, the Dads with Daughters podcast, Adam was on four years ago, so we're moving forward in time. And now his daughter is nine years old. And I'm really excited to be able to delve a little bit deeper into what's happened over those years and what's happened up till now. And I guess to start off today, one question that I, Adam, is, as you think about the relationship with your daughter, what's one of the most meaningful moments that you've shared with your daughter and what made it so special? Adam Angel [00:03:02]: One of the most meaningful moments was when she was trying to pass the swim test right before the swim team. This was after we last talked. And I think in terms of being more active and trying to find a thing that she could do physically, that wasn't something that came automatically to her. There was a lot of anxiety around sort of that or idea that it wasn't good for her, meaning, like, didn't fit her. And so really what I was navigating on my end was trying to figure out how much to push and how much to support and sort of leave it to her. And this was like a moment I'll never forget, because as we had been doing swimming classes, I could see that she was, you know, getting some confidence, and she had. We ended up with this wonderful teacher who I started the training, and then I could see that she needed something from someone else and that had been really good and progressed. And then there was this moment where she wanted to pass a swim test and was really afraid. Adam Angel [00:03:56]: And we had set up the swim tester. You know, there was like, some date to do it, and if you passed that, then you had a chance at the swim team, which she could. I could definitely tell she was interested in, she expressed interest in. So anyway, so we're driving there, and she started to get nervous, and she said, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to do a swim test. And I said, you don't have to do it. We're already in the car. We're already halfway there. Adam Angel [00:04:21]: You're in your swimsuit. Let's go there. We'll be there. We'll stand there. And if. If you don't want to do it when you get there, we don't have to do it, but I want to just go. And she said she agreed. She didn't really say much, but she didn't protest. Adam Angel [00:04:32]: And she can protest. She doesn't have a problem with that. So we get there, and at the pool, we're Standing there and she. They call for kids her age and she looks over and she's about to say something to me. I see her shed one or two tears and I said, I just looked at her, I'm like, you good? And she just kind of nodded and she would just jump right in. And then she passed the test, which was just awesome. And honestly, right after she passed the test, she just jumped in, like with her friends, and then she started playing the rest of the afternoon in the pool. It was just like a lot of relief on both sides, I think, for both of us. Adam Angel [00:05:09]: And I was just appreciating what I took from that. And by the way, she. So she joined the swim team, and then the next summer she was on the swim team as well. And then she did during the year. So just seeing how this progressed. And I'm happy to share more about that, but that moment for me was a lesson for myself on how much to push, to not want it for anything, but for her, but also to not let her sort of go in the house, you know what I mean? And just not see what she might be missing. So, like, you know, here's what it could be. I don't need to push you any further than this. Adam Angel [00:05:39]: And it was a, it was a great moment. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:41]: Now you just talked about the fact about pushing and trying to help your daughter to be able to achieve kind of those, those passions, those dreams that she has for herself, the things that she wants to accomplish. Talk to me about how you go about that support and what do you do to be able to support your daughter in pursuing those passions and dreams. Adam Angel [00:06:02]: What I've come to understand is like, I can help her through some low level skill building, meaning, like, you know, she wants to join something more serious. We're going to give her that opportunity, structure. But first I need to support her in understanding that everyone has fear, everyone has these barriers. And then I show her how this has happened to me and I support her in getting her in front of these situations. Like, like an example was the pool. But later she. She ended up trying basketball and she ended up loving it. But the reason she loved it is she ended up doing a summer camp for a week, which was really high intensity, which I was a little worried that could send her the other way. Adam Angel [00:06:44]: But I always give her the opportunity to say, like, hey, like, you can try this and you could step away from it, but I want to just show you what it looks like, you know, what it could look like. My dad used to say to me, better to Be the tail of the lion than the head of the wolves. And I've shared that with my kids and they both like it. They enjoy that. They notice that. And last week was the first week that she. And I'll tell you how that came about, but she decided she wanted to try jiu jitsu and so she did it and she enjoyed it. Whether she stayed with it or not, I'm not sure. Adam Angel [00:07:12]: But she stayed with basketball and she loves her neighborhood basketball team now too. So just to think of her last time we talked when she was 5, doing these different activities and just building this kind of confidence in ourself is just quite a progression. And I think ultimately it was, this is what it looks like. I'm here to support you through it. This is what it could look like at the very basic level. I'll show you and you could tell me if you want to do it after you try it or even in the middle. If you want to give up, that's okay. But I want you to see. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:41]: I love the intention that you're giving to that. And I guess one of the things that comes to mind are thinking about the intentional ways in which you're working with your daughter and helping her to be able to not only see you as a real person and understand your background and what made you who you are, but also helping her through those, those fears, those anxieties and more. Talk to me more about some of those intentional ways that you have worked to strengthen your bond with your daughter, especially during challenging times. Because we all know that it's not always easy, but there are challenging times too. Adam Angel [00:08:17]: So right around Covid hit, this was a really hard obviously for so many people. And we. She was four and she was three and a half and. Or three and a few months. And my son was just being born, which was crazy, 10 days in. And that was really hard moment. And I think of it as maybe the hardest moment for her and having to not let her go back to her pre K which was such a great place and so like everything from there and before that. But I've just like understood that, you know, there is just when you can't do something, you have to grieve with your kids sometimes. Adam Angel [00:08:51]: And at that time I think I was just not equipped with the level of connection to myself and open heartedness for my own grief of what was happening. And I remember she held for a little bit a lot of shame at that time because I was like, you can't go to school. And she was like basically telling Me, oh, I'm going to school. I mean, she fought me like it was the. I was the worst thing in the world and I was breaking my heart. I remember she, I think she bit me like that. She had never bitten me before, but she felt like that was very bad about that. But I told her, like, that's what, first of all, that's what, you know, she. Adam Angel [00:09:23]: Even years later, that's what kids do and we work through it. And I wasn't shaming her for that. And at some point, you know, sort of as she got older, she and many kids, you know, can hold shame around what they do or how they feel and so on, and just making it more and more open by having these conversations, especially while driving at night in these moments of like, intimacy and just being honest about how it was hard for me and what was hard for me and how I'm open to whatever is going on for her. And so it's been wonderful to sort of be able to be that person for her. And I've grown and learned so much from her about my necessity of being open hearted and willing to not just be wrong, but just like be able to learn from her, but also to grieve, as I said, with her or struggle through something with her. And I think that honesty, you know, doesn't mean that I'm giving up my authority and my, you know, being able to tell her, hey, this is what we need to do. Sometimes it just means that there's a softness that's available to her. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:24]: And your daughter's getting older, not yet a preteen. We're getting close into those tween years. How have you found that you are balancing guiding your daughter while still giving her that independence to grow into the person that she's becoming? Adam Angel [00:10:39]: I had a moment where my wife and I keep having this conversation over and over. Like, there's some friends that have phones and then I've told her she's not having a phone and I'm not giving her any data when she will. Like, it's just not on the table and I've told her why. And then at one point she was really, you know, pushing and I said, okay, I'm gonna explain again. And I gave her like in depth about how this either essentially she's could be connected to many things that actually might scare her that people that I don't know, there's no checks and so on. And you know, that's a bit high, high level for a nine year old. But she understood to some degree and Then that same day I said, you know, I wanted me and my wife and I talking about it, but I just decided to go for it because I wasn't necessarily comfortable with it. But I was thinking this is the opposite way, to provide some opportunity for her to have freedom. Adam Angel [00:11:32]: And I sent her out with her brother without us on bikes. So he's six, she's nine. And I feel that she's much more, even much more responsible, more than she already is, especially when he's around and she's in charge. I think that's useful. Then it's just like, guys go. And she like looked at me like, are you serious? And I'm like, I was like, this is the way that you can go and explore as opposed to on the phone. And I'm not going to come with you. I'll be, I'll be out there in 30 minutes or something. Adam Angel [00:11:58]: And I told her the perimeter, which was about a mile, we have like a park not too far from us, like a, both a school park and a community park. It's a good amount of green, plus sidewalks. You know, she doesn't have to cross many streets at all. And I said, told her she knows the route. Go, that's where you can go. And I went out there 30 minutes later when my wife was like, can you go right? And I'm like, okay. And when I went out there and they were fine, they were fine. But I just like trying to juxtapose those two for her and for me, because it was hard, you know, it's, it's, it's worrisome, but it was fine. Adam Angel [00:12:31]: It was totally fine. And I hope that it will continue to be fine when I send her out every day. So to kind of trust the people that we put her in hands, including Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:39]: her own, you know, that brings up so much. I mean, and I think back to my own childhood and the way in which I was really a free range child in the sense that in my generation, I think our parents were like, yeah, go outside, go and come back. You need to be back by this time and we'll see you later. We didn't have phones, we didn't have any of that. But, but I think that there definitely is a difference in the way in which we are. There's a fear in a lot of parents to do that in the safety of our kids and, and whether we should be doing that. And there's some reality to that as well. And I guess one thing that comes to mind as I hear you say that is that you're providing your daughter with the ability for her to see that you trust her and that you are listening to her and that you want her to feel valued, heard, and also that you trust her to make good decisions. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:32]: And I guess as you think about that, what are some of the things that you're doing intentionally to make your daughter feel valued and heard? Adam Angel [00:13:40]: These are day to day things as opposed to like the big story. It's like I thinking about having conversations about her friendships, little things, these conflicts that seemingly we would might say like what's really this about this is not important or whatever but. But they're very important. These are conversations about being enough, knowing that you're, you're okay to be different, to set it something as simple as she likes fashion set a trend as opposed to having to follow other people rebutting people or the boys in her class are like characterizing all girls in one way or mistreating her another classmate is so just hearing the story and being like, you know, that's asking her how she feels about it, what maybe her frustration with it or and so on and then, and then pushing her to know that she's okay regardless of others view of her, that it's most important, it's her own view. And that can seem trite, but it really is so central to her experience because that's a lot of our hours of her day are with peers. And we make a point, my wife and I make a point of when we're together, we're together and like being connected, connected to them and like we do a lot of camping. So now she wears that and I bring that into the situation because I think that gives us space to be connected in a different way and have like her voice heard around different topics and just being with it and not so peer oriented because so much of her life can be because of school. And so like you know, it doesn't mean they don't do play dates. Adam Angel [00:15:06]: There'd be plenty of that and so on, but just kind of coming back to it and helping her understand herself and how she really feels and so she can rebut other people's ideas around her with her own. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:18]: I love that now none of us as dads are infallible. We're humans, we make mistakes. What's a mistake that you've made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering positive communication? Adam Angel [00:15:31]: Maybe it's good to use the day to day so that it feels more normal for people that are hearing it. Because I think when there's moments where I move to anger, you know, with either one of the kids and sometimes or misunderstand because I made a judgment and about what they were doing and so on, or how they were speaking or so and so forth, it's like, essentially what I'm doing is the opposite of what I just talked about, which is that I'm not waiting to listen. I'm not seeing my daughter as. There's an idea in, like, the psychotherapy world that we. That I, like, trained in, this is my. As my profession, that we can see others at times and different moments as objects in our life as opposed to subjects in our shared life. And I think essentially objectify her. I see her as like, okay, she's just someone in my life, and I can just say or do what I please. Adam Angel [00:16:19]: And like, it doesn't. Again, doesn't mean that I can't have my authority of being okay, like, I'm the adult here. But it does mean that in those moments when I made mistakes and I think that they're frequent enough and I can say, like, these moments, I just sort of like, this is how I. What I want to happen, and it's not happening the way I want it to happen. And so how I characterize this, essentially, many times we have a parallel process between our kids and us. And like, in these moments, I'm like, I don't want this. I want this to work this way. And she's like, well, I want us to have this. Adam Angel [00:16:49]: And essentially we're both having an experience of wanting something and then not be able to get what we want and then having a tantrum of, like, loss around it. Right? Like, I want this. And really what we both need to do on some level, and us first being the adult, is to accept that this is. May not going to work the way we wanted it to. And that sucks maybe for us, depending on situation. And then we can be with their grief if it's not working out for them either. Or maybe we're able to accommodate a certain situation. But the point is, is that there are a number of these mistakes. Adam Angel [00:17:21]: I don't think it's useful just say one big one. I think those happen frequent enough where I just like, oh, yeah, right. I just may not get what I want here. So. And then I maybe act out on my. My daughter by saying, you need to do this or you this. And maybe it comes out in anger. So. Adam Angel [00:17:35]: And I have to come back and apologize and then say, like, I didn't see you in that moment. Or that was hard for me too. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:40]: And what's one way that you show your daughter that she can always count on you? Adam Angel [00:17:44]: This is a do not say type of thing. Just showing up and being there. Basketball games, those are the more regular big moments. And then the other ones are like putting her to bed, getting her up in the morning, taking her to school. I think just like the regularity, the frequency, the explanations when you can't, showing that you've been thinking about them, willingness to listen to them first, I think knowing when I'm going to be there for you, and so on. I think also, like, maybe moments with others where other people are objectifying your kids and you're like, no, I'm on your side. And it doesn't mean that. Again, like, I'm like, you need to be respectful of your teachers, for example. Adam Angel [00:18:19]: But if the teacher is acting out on your kid in the sense that they're not seeing them as a whole person and they're just kind of treating them, again, like just whoever there will step in and have a conversation with them. But again, I'm also talking like a student conversation today. She may struggle with a particular class. And I ask her, like, is this. Is there anything in this that you could do for yourself to improve the situation? Because, like, it seems like maybe you could have done something here, but it doesn't mean that you're not wrong if you're in your protest. And I got you, I'm on your side here, but, like, look at your side a little bit too. So I'm holding both lenses and. But I think she knows that I'm coming from a place ultimately that I have her back. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:01]: And what's the tradition or routine that you've created together that strengthens your bond? Adam Angel [00:19:07]: There was a period of time that was quite hard when she was younger, where it was she. She went to a different school first. And I like, my funny story was that she's like, went to a school and then she went into like, the public school. And it was really. She really struggled with it. And I said, I told her, like, if you want to go somewhere else, she said, what she said is, they don't know how to teach. She's like five telling me this, like, six weeks into her school. I'm like, oh, my God, this is crazy. Adam Angel [00:19:39]: So then I'm like, but I think there's. What she's saying was, I don't want to sit and do worksheets. That's what she's saying. I don't blame her. So Anyway, we ended up trying a different school. But I told her, if you really want to do that, you have to go and do these like tours and stuff. And she did it. So we ended up going somewhere else. Adam Angel [00:19:55]: But during that period of time, you know, at the other school, I started this tradition. I took off work on a particular day early. And so when I picked her up on Mondays, we would go just one on one and pick a place and have a smoothie or something. And then we don't do that every week now like we did, but we do do something else now. For example, right now we're Wednesdays, we go to Jiu Jitsu. Right? That's what we're going to do now. But before was did a practice a day that we did practice basketball one on one. And I do that with my son too. Adam Angel [00:20:24]: Like just making that one on one time. And like, this is just for you, me and you connect. But especially when you realize it's like a season for challenge. Like, more like this month has been really struggling. The intervention is almost always best. Intervention is one on one time and making sure they know that you're putting them first. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:40]: So I mentioned the fact that you have a site called Dads with Wisdom. And one of the things that I wanted to kind of first start with is that not everybody knows what that is. They may never have heard of it. So bring me back to the beginning and talk to me about the inception of Dads with Wisdom and why did you decide that you needed something like Dads with Wisdom and that other dads needed something like Dads with Wisdom? Adam Angel [00:21:07]: Yeah. So my son was born 10 days after Covid. We went home. The doctor said nobody can come and visit for like 60 days. We happen to live near our family on both sides. We were like, why did we do this? Now it's like, this sucks. So we're just all alone and just really struggling. I was in the nonprofit world before I went to private practice. Adam Angel [00:21:25]: And that was a lot to. And it was there I kind of like decided that just like I'm gonna go and go leave my job and took some time to do it. But then I had more time with my son and that process. I was thinking, oh man, this has got to be a really hard time for fathers. And what came next is I reached out to a few people in my area, Washington, D.C. area, just like practitioners that are also private practice. Like anyone running a group for dads. And nobody was. Adam Angel [00:21:51]: There was one person who was a woman who's who ran at one time and, and I had a nice conversation with her about how she did that. Then I put out emails around it and I got like a ton of responses, but all of them from women, mostly practitioners and many wives asking for this to work. And I was like, okay, I'm not messaging this well or to the right audiences. So I spent some time, created this website and I got in touch with a local called the Breastfeeding center of Greater Washington. And it's basically like they do classes for mostly moms and couples, but nothing for dads. And so I, you know, we had a good conversation about it. I essentially became like a partner affiliation and we started running them and then it filled up very quickly and I don't charge that much for these group. And it's 10 sessions. Adam Angel [00:22:40]: I just read all I could read in terms of books and et cetera. And then I just created like this semi structured group where I like, I didn't know what I was doing. I was like, I think this is like a little bit after this. I was talking to you about this not too much longer after. And what I was doing when I knew enough, what I didn't know was like, what do men really want? Because I think they were telling me one thing and maybe they wanted something slightly different. But I was like, maybe more emphasizing the topics and such and like kind of like the educational sort of aspect. And then I, I think what really they wanted was a space to discuss this stuff. And it was good to have those topics and structure, but also really important to stay attuned to what they really were wanting that day. Adam Angel [00:23:20]: And so what I've come to do is like those 10 sessions still exist. I still have those about three times a year. So that's 30 weeks of the year. And these guys are basically getting more space before at the beginning and the end of these sessions to kind of just say what's going on for them, but also getting some topic based discussion and also like if they want resources, different topics of new parenthood. These are all for fathers that are first time fathers and new kids. And maybe we meet one time in person now as well. The rest are virtual because I have guys coming from Baltimore all the way to like Virginia Beach. So those are the three areas of my licensing. Adam Angel [00:23:58]: But you know, I even have guys sometimes come from outside of the area because this is not really therapy. This is not therapy. It's like peer based support. So that's what propelled me to do it and how it started. And now it's like what surprised me with all These groups that are now actually what would be called psychotherapy groups. And I have multiple of these running and there's six or so guys in each one and they love it. And I'm better at it than I was five years by a lot. I think a lot of it is my own internal growth. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:27]: And then sometimes there's a stigma to being in a group of individuals talking about things that make you vulnerable in that way. So for a dad who's hesitant to join something that's like this, what would you say to help him take that first step? Adam Angel [00:24:41]: Well, first of all, I usually send them a podcast. Sometimes it's the best way to get and just to receive it as opposed to having to read. I think normalization obviously is the biggest one. Right. It's like we all go through this. It's. And I think when having somebody else that's going through the exact same thing or very similar at the exact same time is just worth so much. And that's even before I add anything. Adam Angel [00:25:04]: Right. It's just that. And so just I always tell people like, hey, the kind of person that would be in this group is someone like you, who also is thinking, I don't know if this works out for me. But I think this person's committed to being a better father and a better partner maybe and a better. And so on. So that's who's going to be there. And when you go there, it's got its own process. So you don't have to jump right in. Adam Angel [00:25:25]: You may. And many times these people do. And so it really depends on the kind of group. But I think that's why I like talk to people for like 15 minutes before trying to maybe longer, 20 minutes, 30 minutes just to see like, what do you really want here? And people have come and gone in the groups and actually gone to different groups. So like I do like an hour for right before birth for free for people if they want to just like think about how they're feeling and like prepare for what will happen at the birth and then like the first days of postpartum experience. So like that's like a free hour. Then people then tend to sign up for the 10 week new dads and then many times a little later, these, they're men that just like, hey, I just want a more depth oriented conversation with other guys. And that's the sort of dads 2.0 groups that we're doing. Adam Angel [00:26:07]: I've been creating some other groups as well, dads that have lost in like, you know, early infancy or in late pregnancy. I have group for them and also for them if they're parenting after that loss and like, you know, so they can have a space for being which, which has its own unique thing things to it. So I would say to them like, they're like you. And there's, there's this huge value in having that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:29]: There truly is value in that. And I think it is important to be able to put yourself out there and be able to. And I've said this before, to be vulnerable not only with other men, but with your kids in many different ways. I guess as you look at the groups that you've created, the ability for people to come together, what's one story, and I'm not asking you to break confidentiality, that really captures the impact that you've seen for dads that have taken part in these groups. Adam Angel [00:26:58]: This happened yesterday, I'm not kidding in this sweet group. This like conversation was just very. This is a dad's 2.0 group and the dad was talking about one dad was basically struggling as newer to the group. I am not the preferred parent. It's really hard for me. I'm not sure, you know, sort of essentially the level of I'm not at the level of connection I would like with my kids. And other guys were like, first of all, this is a normal pattern that goes up and down. Sometimes times you preferred, sometimes you're not. Adam Angel [00:27:25]: And this guy basically said like. I don't think he was trying to speak about his, the impact, but I think it was obvious to me. He was like, basically in the last six months that he's been in the group for about a year and some. And he said I'm the preferred person parent. And I used to get, you know, essentially like overwhelmed and dealing with my kids. And I would essentially, I don't know his reactions to that, but ultimately now they come to me. They're all over me all the time. And that's hard, but it's a lot better, it's a lot different than it was where they didn't know that I was kind of like that connection and depth of relationship just wasn't where it is now. Adam Angel [00:28:02]: So that's one that just came to me off the top of my head. But I was just like, just appreciating how much he cares, how much he's worked to be that for his kids. And that took a lot of reflection and self determination. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:17]: So one of the other things that comes to mind when I was thinking about this was when we're talking about Vulnerability and men being willing to connect with other men. Why do you think it's so hard for men to build authentic community and, and how does that impact their parenting or their ability to be the father that they want to be. Adam Angel [00:28:39]: Yeah, actually that. To bring this up when in previous answer. So I appreciate you asking it because I think that's also how I sometimes. So the group I said like, I mean, people tell me and you can tell me if it's true. For years I'll say to someone that they have close friends, but they still don't have these kind of conversations they need to have where they can actually say what they're really feeling around life, parenting and their experience as a husband after kids and so on and so forth. And usually the guys will not be like, yeah, I have close friends, or I don't really have this kind of relationship with friends, but I still can't have this conversation. And the guys will say like, especially when they're leaving. And like, I have them like, kind of like just people like say really kind things to them as if someone's leading a group or something and the dad's 2.0. Adam Angel [00:29:20]: And they'll say something like that, like, like this has been a different place where I can actually say like, hey, you know, today I didn't feel like wanting to be a parent. I just, I was mad about being a dad and I didn't like it. I don't want to be like. And that's a really hard thing to say. If I say that somewhere else, someone's going to judge me. And all the other guys in the group, like, not usually we know what you're talking about. Because they also know that they're committed. Just because they're having a protest has nothing to do with their love. Adam Angel [00:29:42]: Those two are not incongruent. And so just naming the frustration and difficulty has nothing to do with the level of care and knowing that the people around you are not going to judge you and know that that is what vulnerability is. I had this wonderful quote from my. One of my mentors in my training institute that I do on a regular basis. And he says there's a difference between transparency and vulnerability, but only you will know it because it's an internal experience. I can be transparent with you, Chris, and I can also, I can tell you about my life, but if I don't feel the vulnerability, then it's not vulnerable. And usually the vulnerability requires a little bit of worry that this could be harmful to me if you use this against. And that Fear that around that is like, that's actually. Adam Angel [00:30:29]: Well, we of course can explore it. But the bottom line is that's a risk and you're taking it. And you're taking it. Your willingness to take it is its own bond between the guys. And everyone knows it when you're doing it. You know it first and they know it usually second. And so that's been something that I've actually said as a part of our conversations and times with the guys. And there's a good response to that. Adam Angel [00:30:51]: And they're able to engage in another level of vulnerability. So I don't know if I answered all the question if it was like why it's hard. I think is like. I think the answer is that it's scary and that we've been hurt in a lot of ways to taught not to do that. That's the real world. Like. And you shouldn't be vulnerable to every single person because it can be. There are people that have unfortunately not the best intentions but. Adam Angel [00:31:12]: But there are plenty that you can. And you can navigate that by just by figuring it out as you go through the relationship. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:18]: When I think some of that goes back to trauma in regards to what individuals have experienced in their own life. And there's many men that have generational trauma or patterns that they experienced growing up. And I'm sure you've seen that in groups in different ways. How would you say that dads can begin to break those cycles for themselves? Adam Angel [00:31:40]: Yeah, I mean this is my work. So like when I'm not doing groups, I'm doing individual therapy. And my focus of training has been in complex trauma. And what that really means essentially is we adjust ourselves as all people do. And even when we're wonderful dads that we are, Chris, our kids, we're not going to be perfect for them and therefore they will have to adjust. And there's. It just is part of life. And that adjustment means that we're going to create strategies to protect ourselves. Adam Angel [00:32:03]: And we had to do that as kids. And so when I work with people individually and in the group, we notice what they're really wanting for themselves, which is this intention that we're going to state together. So for example, I would like to have greater self confidence or some state or experience in myself or maybe I want to have more capacity to be vulnerable. But that is where we're coming from, from the adult side of what we want. Now when we are engaged in relationships, it's very easy to fall into the strategies that worked for us at one point. Or at least attempted to work for us as a young person in a life where we don't have any agency as a child, you don't. Ultimately you're worried about your, the people that care for you, caregivers and the culture around you. And it has rules. Adam Angel [00:32:47]: And you realize those rules. You're very quick to learn that as a kid until you keep yourself safe through this process. And those strategies, they need to be confronted and addressed. And the way that you do that is by sitting with someone else who cares and has, can support you. And when you do that, working out, for example, in therapy, you get something where you can notice with the person, deepen into the emotions of what has happened, but more importantly, what's coming up for you now and how you might be allowing in these same things. And I see that allowing with a lot of compassion doesn't mean we're intentionally doing it, but allowing in old strategies which are determining things in your life you no longer want. And when you can be that with that, with that, in this kind of process, we can interrupt generational, cultural, all the things trauma that you've been through. And again, I'm using that word lightly because I know sometimes people talk about trauma, but it's, it's just your experiences or you were limited to what you could do and be and who you could be. Adam Angel [00:33:47]: And we're trying to just say if you want to be something else, you can, but you gotta address it and be with it. And you have to do it with someone who also has this and other people and in the group, other people that are committed to doing the same. So that that's where the growth can happen. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:01]: Now if people want to find out more about dads with wisdom, where should they go? Adam Angel [00:34:05]: Yeah, so website is dadswithwisdom.com and that's where the groups are mostly. And if there's anyone who's experienced loss in parenting, you know, early life, you know, early pregnancy or late pregnancy loss, I do those groups too. But I keep that off the website and go to Adamodulotherapy.com for. That's for the individual work and also therapy group. Because I just, it can be really intense for someone who's lost to see those pictures of babies that are sort of on the Dads of Wisdom website. I also am doing a retreat in the fall. It's the first time I've ever done that. And this is sort of listening. Adam Angel [00:34:38]: I went to a men's retreat myself, was profound and very thoughtful, pushed me further. And so I was like you know, I could do this. So I'm going to be doing something in the Shenandoah area and it's going to be exciting. So that's also happening now. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:52]: I always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 6. Six more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. Are you ready? I don't know. What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughter? Adam Angel [00:35:04]: Maybe an easy one. Loving, caring, Something like that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:07]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? Adam Angel [00:35:11]: I'm not sure if it's the best, but it's true. This too shall pass. It'll change again. It's okay. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:17]: What's one activity that you and your daughter love doing together? Adam Angel [00:35:20]: Sometimes it's just sitting and having a nice snack at this, like, particular place that we like, have like good little drinks and we just kind of like look out the window. We have a good conversation. So I think that's one of the big ones. I think I mentioned other, other ones earlier. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:33]: If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Adam Angel [00:35:38]: You're enough. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:39]: What's one thing that you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Adam Angel [00:35:42]: I want to be silly with it and say I'm enough. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:46]: And what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Adam Angel [00:35:54]: I think what we're talking about here is obviously don't give up stuff. You're going to be okay. All these things that we're just mentioning. But you need, you need. If you want to be a rock, you need a mountain, you need and to sit on. And I think that's. That's the men that can support you. And so you doing it alone is. Adam Angel [00:36:10]: It's the start to do not really possible in the same way or it's going to be really detrimental to do it. So you need to be the person that you want to be, the dad that you want to be. You need other men to support you. You'll get where you want to be that way much easier. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:24]: Well, Adam, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for being here today for the work that you're doing with dads with wisdom and for sharing the journey that you've been on with your daughter up till now. It's still keep going to keep going, and you're going to keep learning and it's going to be an amazing journey along the way. But I truly want to say thank you for being here and I wish you all the best. Adam Angel [00:36:44]: Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:46]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged, engaged dad isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Performer [00:37:17]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.

Redefining Fatherhood: Building Strong Bonds With Your Daughter

Fatherhood comes with its own set of joys, challenges, and constant learning curves—especially when raising daughters. If you're a dad looking to deepen your connection with your daughter and help her become a confident, independent woman, the latest episode of Dad and Daughter Connection is an absolute must-listen. Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, the podcast's mission is clear: to provide real stories, expert advice, and practical tips so fathers can show up as the dads their daughters need. In this episode, Dr. Christopher Lewis [https://www.linkedin.com/in/drchristopherlewis/] sits down with Michael Mirza [https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-mirza/], a father of two, to revisit his parenting journey since he last appeared on the show four years ago. As both Dr. Christopher Lewis and Michael Mirza share, the parenting landscape is always shifting, and what worked yesterday may need to be reimagined for the children we love today. The Power of Presence and Pause A central theme is the importance of being present. Michael Mirza recounts a recent moment with his daughter at a quiet park, where they simply paused to enjoy nature and each other's company. He shares how his daughter's insight—"it's really nice to just pause and be quiet sometimes"—reminded him of the value in stepping back from the busyness of life and savoring stillness and connection. These simple acts, often unplanned, create the foundation for deep and lasting bonds. Embracing Neurodiversity The episode dives deeply into Michael Mirza's and his daughter's shared experience with ADHD. He discusses how receiving a diagnosis became an opportunity to empower his daughter, framing ADHD as a unique superpower rather than a setback. The family's approach—open conversations, focusing on strengths, and using creative analogies (like referencing Elsa's powers from Frozen)—drives home the message that differences can be celebrated, not shamed. Nurturing Independence and Repairing Connection Another important discussion centers on balancing guidance with independence. Michael Mirza talks about giving his daughter room to grow, whether it's letting her walk to a friend's house or manage her own routines. He stresses that letting go of control so children can rise to the occasion fosters confidence and trust. Crucially, the practice of apologizing and intentionally repairing after conflict is highlighted. Michael Mirza emphasizes humility, admitting when he's made mistakes, and always reaffirming his love—no matter the frustrations or tantrums. Final Takeaways From outdoor "treasure hunts" to creative home projects, this episode is filled with real-life examples of building strong, resilient relationships. Michael Mirza's core advice to dads? Meet your daughter fully in her world, free of self-consciousness and stereotypes—paint her nails, dance, and never be afraid that vulnerability will compromise your strength as a father. Whether you're a new dad or have years of parenting under your belt, this episode of Dad and Daughter Connection offers wisdom, encouragement, and the firm reminder that being present and authentic is what matters most. Tune in and let these stories inspire you to build an even stronger bond with your own daughter. If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey [https://bit.ly/daddaughtersurvey] to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter [https://bit.ly/ddcneweletter] to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/DrChristopherLewis], Facebook Group [https://www.facebook.com/groups/dadanddaughterconnections], Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/dadofdivas], LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/drchristopherlewis/], X [https://www.x.com/dadofdivas]. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]: If you're looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we'll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let's get started, because being a great dad isn't just about being there. It's about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection. I'm your host, Dr. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:54]: Christopher Lewis, and I'm really excited that you're back again this week, because every week I love the opportunities that we have to be able to learn and grow together. I've said this many times, but you know that I've got two daughters myself, and this podcast came out of the fact that I wanted to be able to talk to other dads about what they were learning along the way. And I knew that dads are not always the best at asking questions. They're not always the best at reaching out. And when you have a daughter, that relationship is an important one, and we've got to show up. We've gotta be willing to do what we have to do to be able to be the dads that our daughters need, and that's why this podcast exists. The conversations that we have lead to deeper connections with our daughters, and it's an opportunity for you to be able to roll up your sleeves, to be able to learn, to grow and to take some things out of every episode. My hope is that at the end of every episode, you've got something, whether it's one thing, whether it's 10 things that you have taken away from the episode, some tools for your toolbox that will allow for you to be able to be just that little bit better. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:05]: And every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that have been doing this fatherhood thing in their own way, and they're bringing some perspectives to you. Doesn't mean that it's going to work for you. It could. It might not, but you're going to still learn something new. Today we got another great guest. Michael Mirza is with us today, and Michael is a father of two. He's got both a son and a daughter. His daughter is 8, and we're going to be talking about his relationship with his daughter. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:36]: And for full transparency, Michael was a guest on my past podcast called Dads with Daughters about four years ago. And so this is a great opportunity for me to be able to reconnect with him and an opportunity for you to get to meet him and to learn from him today. Michael, thanks so much for being here today. Michael Mirza [00:02:54]: Thank you so much. It's an honor to be back, Christopher, and I am really grateful for the ways you have kept this conversation going and the depth and wisdom you bring to it and the intentionality. So thank you so much for having me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:05]: You know, I really appreciate you being back. And as we were talking before we started, things have changed a lot in four years, and not only in the sense of your daughter being where she's at today, and you're in a very different point in your own fatherhood and parenting. And I guess my first question for you is, as you look back at the eight years that you've had with your daughter, what's one of the most meaningful moments that you've been able to share with your daughter thus far and what made it so special? Michael Mirza [00:03:33]: Mm, I love that. Well, first of all, I just thought, wow, eight years. And we chatted four years ago, so it has literally been double her lifetime since we last talked. Like, in the scheme of things, like, she is truly a completely different person, and I am in a lot of ways as well. The first thing that came to mind when you asked that was actually a fairly recent moment. So I don't know if it's the most meaningful of all, but it's one that is. Just came to mind right away with all the craziness of life. We were recently at a park, and it was a pretty quiet day at the park, and there was, like, almost nobody else around, so I was there with my two kids. Michael Mirza [00:04:13]: We played on the playground a little bit. Then we were just kind of strolling around the park. At one point, we ended over by the baseball diamond, and my son was drawing with a stick in the dirt, and my daughter and I were just sitting on the bleachers watching him. And there was sort of a natural pause, and she. In. In an unprovoked way, she was just noticing, like, the birds and the clouds gently passing over just in a totally, like, unsolicited way was just like, it's really nice to just pause and be quiet sometimes and just listen. And that meant a lot to me because I think it's a good reminder to me and a good word for me and we've been talking a lot lately about the importance of nature, as in taking care of nature and learning from nature and also trying to get out and spend time in nature where in the area we live in. We're grateful to have a lot of forest preserves close by where we live. Michael Mirza [00:05:03]: But to have her sort of reflect that without me sort of prompting like, hey, isn't this nice? And she was just like, wow, sitting and listening to the birds. Pretty cool. That was a really special moment for me. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:15]: I love that. And you're right, I mean, sometimes those quiet moments, those opportunities to be able to just be, are so important because so many times in our lives, life gets in the way. The busyness of life gets in the way. And you don't sit down and just reflect or you don't sit down and just allow for the world around you to be able to just be. Michael Mirza [00:05:42]: It's something that for me, I have adhd. And that's another thing my daughter and I now share is we both share diagnosed adhd. But so for me, like just with the noise and you know, so much of my life is on screens, those moments of pause, I haven't fully dabbled into meditation, probably as much as I should, and yet sometimes it's my daughter is the one reminding me was a real gift. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:03]: So talk to me about that diagnosis that you both share and what that has meant not only for her, but for you. And sharing that, but also what have you been able to do to be able to help her, to be able to better understand what she is going through and what you've gone through. Michael Mirza [00:06:21]: And it's actually pretty recent for her. So I was diagnosed with ADHD in middle school. I tried a bunch of different medications and didn't like the side effects for various reasons. And so my parents and I decided together. I honestly don't fully remember the details of the conversation, but actually decided to forego medication. And I made it through my life okay. My academic career and in my professional career. However, I look back at my career and I can think, I can see a lot of places where I probably struggled a lot more than I needed to. Michael Mirza [00:06:53]: So actually just for myself, just about two years ago, I went and got formally assessed again as an adult and got my own ADHD diagnosis again. This is. That means I had gone roughly 30 years ish, without medication and not on any sort of high horse, like good reason. I just like for whatever reason didn't want to. And then I quickly saw the difference it made in my life. Meanwhile, with my Daughter. We were seeing some. A lot of the signs that there may have been adhd. Michael Mirza [00:07:22]: And it is a. You know, it has genetic components to it, and my mom has it as well. So she's incredibly creative, brilliant, and also can struggle with regulating her emotions and slowing down to make decisions, but so creative and capable of leaning into, like, the hyper focus that is characteristic of adhd. So we just got her assessed and we finally got the results from the therapist who worked with her just a week ago. So this is super, super fresh. So the next step is actually to go meet with a psychiatrist and work with the psychiatrist and pediatrician to get medication. And so it's all. We haven't even gone that far. Michael Mirza [00:08:01]: But simply having the diagnosis has been so helpful. I can already see so much of myself in her and the strengths she has, the challenges she has. So much of it I can relate to on a very personal level. And now to have the diagnosis and the language about her experience has already created opportunities, even before we start her on medication, to start talking about her in a way that builds her up and, but also helps her understand. This is your unique body and the way you've been built. So the way we've been talking about it with her is you have this brain that has this superpower where you can make amazing things and you can really, really focus on the things that excite you. And kind of like we referenced, you remember in the movie Frozen, Elsa has these amazing ice powers, but when her emotions are dysregulated, her powers can do damage and her powers can get out of control and do things that she doesn't actually want them to do. And so we referenced that and kind of explaining like, you have these amazing powers in your brain and sometimes you need a little bit of help to be able to know how to use your powers to do amazing things and make beautiful things. Michael Mirza [00:09:05]: And she really resonated with that and found it to be a very edifying way of talking. And she feels excited about it. And she's been telling her friends and telling her teachers, like, I have adhd. It's a superpower. And I think that's the language that I'm trying to impart from her and learning from my own experiences of shame at times of feeling shame when I felt that I didn't create work or perform in a way that I knew I was capable of. And it is a mental brain diagnosis. It is a medical thing in that sense. It just is a unique makeup of the body. Michael Mirza [00:09:40]: But to not treat it as so much as being. I'm hesitant to call it a disability, and I'm not as well versed as I should be in making sure that I'm avoiding ableist language. And so I'm cautious to say that I'm not wanting to use the term disability in any disparaging way. And yet, just the way we're framing this diagnosis for my daughter, we're really trying to build it as a superpower and not focus on the negative aspects. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:04]: As now, you know, one of the things that I'd be interested in hearing a little bit about is your daughter is getting older. As I. As I said at the beginning, we talked about four years ago, and a lot changes in four years. How do you find yourself balancing guiding your daughter while also giving her the independence to grow into the person she's becoming? Michael Mirza [00:10:24]: You know, honestly, I mean, that goes hand in hand with the diagnosis as well, is that there have been places where I believe my wife and I have asserted a lot of control more than we needed to. Being like, well, we should probably still keep brushing her teeth for her, even though she's not, because she doesn't always do well at the dentist. So if we brush her teeth for her, well, then therefore, then she'll have less trouble at the dentist. And we've realized over the years of seeing that, like, you have to let go, because otherwise, if the goal is to raise a healthy, functioning adult, I have to trust her more. And what we have found is that when we release control and trust her more, she will rise to the occasion. And it is scary and vulnerable to release control. But, for example, taking a bath, taking a shower. It used to be like we're kind of hovering and giving instructions on next step by step, and trying to guide her through it. Michael Mirza [00:11:18]: Well, she's heard the instructions enough times that now we give the instructions and we leave the room and we let her do her thing. And then we'll check in. We'll open the door, check in. Hey, did you do this step? Did you do the next step? Great. You did it. Awesome. Here's the next step, and then we just leave. And the more we've been doing that, where we just give the instructions and leave, sometimes we still have to do reminders, of course, but she has been really rising to the occasion and demonstrating without even saying it, I can handle this. Michael Mirza [00:11:42]: I can do this. And it's honestly been more my work and my wife's work for us to release control. And I think the other area with the independence that we're just starting to get into is. I think a lot of folks that I talk to, my age and older, have a memory of childhood in which there was this freedom in roaming the neighborhood and, you know, the. The quintessential staying out till the lights till dark and then coming. And I think over time, there's been a shift in that there's a lot less independence giving to kids in the way that they play. And that's another area where we're trying to give more independence. So one of my daughter's best friends lives right down the block, Just has to cross one not very busy street, and she can walk there. Michael Mirza [00:12:25]: So just in the last month, as it's been getting warmer, we have been saying, like, we'll kind of text with the parents just to make sure, but we've been saying, like, go ahead, walk down the street. Knock on the door. Can you play? And she was really nervous at first, but getting her to the point where she's getting more comfortable walking out the house, down. Down the street by herself. And again, the parents are still doing a little bit of coordinating to know, like, this is going to relatively work, but we want to do more and more of that, too. And we see in our neighborhood, like, kids who are 10, 11, 12, riding their bikes by themselves or in little groups. And so we're trying to get. Get her moving in that way as well. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:04]: What are some intentional ways that you've worked to strengthen your bond with your daughter, especially during those challenging times? Michael Mirza [00:13:11]: We try very hard when there's an argument or a disagreement about what needs to be done next to validate what she may be experiencing and to say, hey, I understand you want to do this. I understand that you're really focused on this thing right now. We have to pivot and get ready for the next thing for this reason. And there are times in there where validating it isn't enough. And there's still frustration and emotions that will. That will come. I've had to be really intentional also about apologizing when I am feeling frustrated myself. And I add a lot of hurry sometimes, and sometimes that, I mean, she doesn't respond well to being rushed and hurried. Michael Mirza [00:13:51]: And I have had to apologize a lot, not only sometimes for the ways I'm getting frustrated and my own emotions are coming up, but that I've also recognizing. Hmm. A lot of the reason we're rushing is because I wasn't managing my time well, and now I'm not. I'm kind of rushing at the last minute and imposing that rush and urgency onto you. And that's why there's a tantrum and a breakdown that's happening when in reality, if I had managed my time better and started the get ready to leave process 20 minutes earlier, then we could be in a more relaxed and flexible space. So I've had to do a lot of recognizing and apologizing for my own ways in which I am adding to the stress of the environment that has taken an ongoing effort of humility that some. Sometimes I'm able to recognize in the moment, sometimes it takes a little while longer to recognize. But I think that that's, I would say, as a baseline, I know I'm going to make mistakes, but it's a hard and fast rule for me to always apologize. Michael Mirza [00:14:50]: Everyone makes mistakes. Not everyone apologizes for their mistakes. And I think the apology, as almost a discipline has been important for us and building trust. And I think it has created the opportunity that even when we have a tantrum that ends with, you know, some frustration and big emotions, that we are always able to come back to an embrace and. And reconnection moment. And me being able to articulate I love you no matter what, there's nothing that will ever cause me to stop loving you. And even when we have disagreements, even when we have fights, I will always love you no matter what. And I have to manage my emotions and not let my anger get in the way of. Michael Mirza [00:15:27]: Of my love for you as well. So I think that at a. Really, that that's been one of the ways that we have done that. And then other than that, I think we connecting over nature and art and lately music as well have all been ways that we are able to strengthen our connection in those more peaceful times. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:42]: How do you support your daughter as you identify those passions, those dreams that she has? What are you doing to support her in those? Michael Mirza [00:15:51]: So I've noticed that she's really. She's quite creative. She specifically has a real knack for organizing and arranging things. So one of her favorite ways to play is she has lots of little trinkets, and it's a mix of, like, Barbie things and other things from all sorts of, like, mishmash of a bunch of different types of toys. She really likes to arrange them. And so first of all, just verbally affirming her and saying, like, oh, you have a real eye for design. That's really cool. She doesn't think of herself as a designer yet, but the way that she likes to arrange, it's sort of an editorial form of creativity. Michael Mirza [00:16:25]: But that has also meant sometimes that sometimes the arrangements that she's created in the little museum displays she's building around the house. Some of that means allowing those things to stay where they are, perhaps longer than I or my wife might like them to stay put, because we want to honor the creativity that she and the hard work she put into these little displays that she has created. And sometimes I'm just like, oh, yeah, this is so amazing. We actually need to use the kitchen table to eat. However, this is so beautiful. Beautiful. And it's not always at the kitchen table, but maybe it's like, in the middle of the living room and other places. And my wife's preference, and mine too, but I think my wife is particularly values having a serenity in the home, especially at the end of the night. Michael Mirza [00:17:07]: So kind of our nightly rhythm is as soon as bedtime goes, is done, we kind of, like, clean the house, do just a little tidying so that we feel like we can kind of rest and breathe the rest of the night. But sometimes that means honoring my daughter's creativity by saying, we're going to intentionally choose to leave this display that she has created, even if it might mean the house feels a little less tidy than we might like. And so we'll let that go. And then after a couple days being like, all right, are you okay with taking this down? Usually she's more okay with it at that point. And then we'll often take a picture of what she has created before we clean it all up. That way, it's like, okay, we've got a record of this cool display that you made. The real fun of it, at least for me, as a creative. And I think my daughter, she wouldn't admit this, but I would. Michael Mirza [00:17:51]: I think it's true for her, too. The joy is actually more in the creating than it is in the leaving it out once it's created. The joy. She got her money's worth from that experience, figuratively speaking. So trying to guide her and be. Yes, it's sad to take down this thing that you worked hard on, but it actually just means you get to make a new arrangement next. So just like, little ways of trying to nuance and support her creativity in that way. I think she is a very talented designer and artist, and who knows what she'll. Michael Mirza [00:18:17]: How she may choose to use that in her life and what the creative landscape will look like by time. She's an adult, which I guess is only like 10 years away, but still, who knows? But we want to continue to affirm and nuance her creativity and her hard work, while also recognizing that the context of her creations may be fluid. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:34]: One of the things that I think that all of us try to do is we try to show our daughters that they can count on us, that we're here for them, that we show up for them. What's one way that you show your daughter that she can always count on you? Michael Mirza [00:18:47]: I'm thinking of relevant to some of when she has had really big emotions and whether it's been that there's a change of plans or asking her to stop something she's working on so that we can move on to getting ready for the day or getting ready for bed or whatever it is. And in those moments when she has a kind of a meltdown of sorts or, and as she gets older, this gets less common. But I think it's still something that plays into the ADHD thing. One of the ways that I think we try really hard to show up for her is this posture of always being willing to embrace and not hold bitterness towards. Even when sometimes like her dysregulation may cause her to say things we know she doesn't mean or lash out. Trying really, really hard to not take that personally. And it's amazing how the words of an 8 year old can still hurt. But trying really hard to demonstrate that we're still here, that talking in that way is not kind and it's not something we're okay with. Michael Mirza [00:19:45]: But we're still here and we will be here with you. We're going to guide you and help you and understand that it's not okay to talk to people that way. And we're not going to leave you. We're not going to punish you with isolation or shame in those moments. But I think that that's part of the reason why we are always able to reconcile in the way that we are is because of this posture of showing that even when sometimes it's like, I need you to take a. I need you to take a few minutes to just calm down in your room and then when you play with your fidgets, do a little drawing when you're calm, I'm going to go take some time for me to be calm. Let's come back together in a couple minutes and let's talk about that. Even in those moments, making sure that she is understanding that I'm not like shutting the door and walking away and we're done with this. Michael Mirza [00:20:32]: We're moving on to making it clear like, I'm still here, but we both need a little space right now. Let's take some space. Let's come back and demonstrating that consistently that she is never going to be abandoned as part of her any sort of consequence for anything that might happen. Maybe that's still a little too abstract, but that's sort of her high level. But that's where my mind went. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:53]: Completely understand. And it's definitely a journey. We talked about it being a journey, but it's going to evolve, it's going to change. And you have to change with it as your daughter changes as well, and as you get to better understand how you need to be there for and be able to allow for her, as we talked about earlier, become the person that she's becoming. What's a tradition that or a routine that you and your daughter do together, that you either create together or do together that strengthens the bond that you have together. Michael Mirza [00:21:24]: When we were talking about nature earlier, one of our ways that we like to do is we try to get out in the forest preserve once a month, which might not sound that hard, but you'd be surprised with the way schedules fill up just to like carve out a day. And we like to carry little buckets when we go into the woods and look for treasures. And I've been using some kind of found objects in nature for my own artwork as well. I've been exploring pattern design as a. As a medium lately. And so my daughter already liked this process of finding treasures, which may be anything from a pine cone to a mushroom to, you name it, just found objects in nature. We try to. Our rule is that you've got to either find it on the ground or got to be able to pluck it in a way that's not going to damage the rest of the plants or the organism, whatever it is. Michael Mirza [00:22:12]: But as I have been exploring my art medium and using found objects in that the focus of our treasure hunting has changed a little bit, in which now she is ecstatic about the idea of finding treasures that I can use in my art. And it's fun because she has also been like, taking these things beyond just the fun of finding and starting to do some kind of creativity of her own with nature. So she's been doing like little sketches of mushrooms and pinecones that she'll find. And then she likes to kind of put like little faces and turn them into little characters. That's been a really kind of a fun thing we've been doing for a long time of trying to being intentional about going outside and going in the woods and treasure hunting. And it's fun that now it sort of has this added layer of making art and sort of practicality to it in a way that is really, really fun. So I think that that's something that I would, I hope, you know, as we get older that our exploration of nature and treasure hunting evolves and we're able to do more in depth hiking. And I, I am hopeful about the idea of growing older and that even as my daughter is living on her own someday, that getting back together to go into nature together is something I hope we will continue to do for as long as we can. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:25]: Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 6. Six more questions that delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready? Michael Mirza [00:23:33]: Let's do it. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:33]: What's one word that describes your relationship with your daughter? Michael Mirza [00:23:38]: Mirroring. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:39]: What's the best piece of dad advice you've ever received? Michael Mirza [00:23:43]: Go to therapy. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:44]: What's one activity that you and your daughter love doing together? Michael Mirza [00:23:47]: In addition to what? Everything else that I would say is dancing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:50]: If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be? Michael Mirza [00:23:55]: Slow down and appreciate all the goodness around you. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:57]: What's one thing you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad? Michael Mirza [00:24:01]: It's good to do less. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:02]: And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters? Michael Mirza [00:24:10]: There is nothing that you could do with your daughter that compromises your masculinity in any way. And you will have a more fulfilled and enriched relationship with your daughter by entering fully into her world and not caring what anyone else thinks about whether or not what you're doing is fatherly in any sort of way. So do her hair, paint her nails, paint your nails. Meet her there. And you are actually more fulfilled as a father and as a man when you meet her fully there and aren't concerned about how that might come off, about how you are perceived. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:41]: Well, Michael, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing the journey that you're on with your daughter and it's going to continue, it's going to evolve, it's going to change. But I truly appreciate you being here for sharing and for coming back into this conversation. And I look forward to hearing more about how things evolve as time goes by. And I wish you all the best. Michael Mirza [00:25:04]: Thank you so much, Dr. Lewis. It's been a delight. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:06]: That's a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn't about being perfect, it's about being present. If you enjoy enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don't forget, you can find all our episodes@dadanddaughterconnection.com until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs. Musical Outro Performer [00:25:36]: We're all in the same boat and it's full of tiny screaming passengers? We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents and bring your A game? Cause those kids are growing fast? The time goes by just like a dynamite blast? Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men? 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