017: How to Actually Manage a Hybrid Team When Half Your Strategy Is Not Working | Nate Challen

018: Liked AND Respected: The Status Formula for Women | Alison Fragale

Women status at work is not the same as power, and that distinction could be the most important thing your career has been missing. Most women have been told to work harder, get the promotion, earn the title. But if the people around you don't respect and regard you, none of that moves you forward. You can have the degree, the credentials, and the job offer, and still be overlooked. In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, host and recovering corporate leader Katie Armentrout sits down with Dr. Alison Fragale, organizational psychologist, professor at UNC Kenan-Flagler Business School, and national bestselling author of Likeable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve. Alison breaks down the science of status, why being authentic and being strategic are not opposites, and exactly how women can build the kind of reputation that earns them a seat at the table. You'll walk away with a new way to think about influence, self-promotion, and the relationships that make or break your career. In this episode, you’ll discover: * Why status and power are not the same thing, and why chasing power without building status is costing women at work * How the Likeable Badass Framework helps you build both warmth and authority so you can be genuinely liked and deeply respected at the same time * The self-promotion strategy Alison learned from a difficult boss at McKinsey and how it changed the way she shows up professionally * Why authentic and strategic are not opposites, and how to show up as a real version of yourself while still being intentional about how others perceive you * How to practice negotiation and advocacy in low-stakes environments so you are ready when it actually matters * The subtle allyship behavior that builds someone else's status without a single grand gesture, and how anyone can use it * Why "don't care what other people think" is advice that will actually hurt your career, and what to do instead We talk about: 00:00 Why liked and respected is not a trade-off for women 03:30 Alison's career pivot from McKinsey to organizational psychology 07:00 The status vs. power distinction that changes everything 10:30 How to practice negotiation in low-risk everyday situations 14:00 How to talk about yourself without sounding arrogant 17:30 Why authentic and strategic can coexist 20:00 What does caring about what others think actually mean? 25:00 How to decide whose opinion of you actually matters 28:00 The subtle allyship move that builds someone else's status 34:00 What the research says about women and workplace influence 38:00 Books that changed the way Alison works and sleeps 43:00 The best advice Alison has ever received 46:00 Lightning round: personality assessments, deep work, and walk-on music Resources: * Likeable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve, by Alison Fragale, PhD: https://amzn.to/4oS1NHH [https://amzn.to/4oS1NHH] Connect with Alison * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisonfragale/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisonfragale/] * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alisonfragale/ [https://www.instagram.com/alisonfragale/] * Website: https://alisonfragale.com/ [https://alisonfragale.com/] Connect with me * Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout [https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout [https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout] * LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout [https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout] * Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter [http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter] * Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com [http://www.peoplefluence.com] #WomenAtWork #WomenLeadership #WorkplaceInfluence #StatusVsPower #LikeableBadass #AllisonFragale #WomenInBusiness #LeadershipForWomen #HowToGetRespected #WorkplaceAdvice #NegotiationTips #WomenCareer #AuthenticLeadership #CareerGrowthTips #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #LeadershipPodcast #CareerDevelopment #WomenEmpowerment

017: How to Actually Manage a Hybrid Team When Half Your Strategy Is Not Working | Nate Challen

Nate Challen did not set out to become the person companies call when the future of work breaks down. It happened because he kept landing at the front edge of change before anyone else knew it was coming. He started at Ancestry.com building one of the first social platforms before social media existed. He led global teams out of Frankfurt with people in France, Germany, the UK, Singapore, and South America. He ran Canada for Sanofi as a general manager with barely 5 percent of his boss's attention and a full cross-functional team looking to him for every decision. And then COVID hit and the rest of the world caught up to what he had already been navigating for years. In this conversation, Nate and Katie get into the leadership questions most people are too comfortable to ask honestly. What actually makes hybrid work, and why most companies are doing it wrong. What happens when you get promoted over the peer sitting next to you. Why the best leaders ask about ambition before they start coaching. And what it means to find teammates instead of competitors everywhere you go, including business school. This is a conversation for the leader who wants to stay ahead of what is coming, and the manager who wants to stop losing people to policies that were never designed with them in mind. IN THIS EPISODE, YOU’LL DISCOVER: * Why most hybrid work policies fail and what intentional workplace design actually looks like * What to do in the first 90 days when you land in a new role, new city, and new culture all at once * The ambition conversation most managers never have and why it costs them their best people * How to navigate the shift from peer to boss without losing the relationships that matter * Why the carrot beats the stick every time when it comes to getting people back in the office * What leading a geographically fragmented global team teaches you about building culture on purpose * The difference between being the boss and being a leader, and why they require different things from you * How curiosity became Nate's most consistent leadership tool across seven states, two countries, and multiple industries We talk about: 00:00 - Two votes and a basketball team: the moment at Kenan-Flagler that made Nate realize he was a leader 05:00 - Seven states, two countries, and the formula he used to land well every single time 08:00 - Curiosity as a leadership tool: how to get familiar with a culture before you try to lead it 09:00 - The mid-career wall: why coaching someone toward your ambition instead of theirs is a waste of both of your time 15:00 - When did you first realize you were a boss: becoming GM in Canada at 5 percent of your boss's scope 19:00 - From peer to boss: the Sanofi global role where his former teammate suddenly reported to him 22:00 - The hybrid work conversation: why Nate had a head start on what everyone else panicked about 26:30 - Why intentional workplace design is the only thing that actually works in hybrid 28:00 - The Tuesday problem: everyone shows up on the same day, there are no seats, and the whole day is Zoom calls 32:00 - Lightning round: Myers Briggs INTP, Working Genius, 4,000 Weeks, and why being more efficient is the wrong goal 37:00 - The best advice he ever got and the boss who told him to stop trying to be something else 39:30 - The Rolaids failure: why ambition is a good thing and failure is only failure if leadership punishes it Resources: * 4000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman [https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChsSEwjinIThhfGUAxVgHq0GHVD_GNEYACICCAEQABoCcHY&co=1&ase=2&gclid=Cj0KCQjw54nRBhDCARIsAMcY_SDXFeCxL-VnKkFaVNf1L2RIe_QbmXPsLbu7N8rzjwqR06F-uFczoMAaAi50EALw_wcB&ei=yj8jauO6HfDIwN4P4tCR8Ao&cid=CAASZeRoo1vb7wNHAp0TWiAyfdWFfmaUJdPoUfD0V1sfmfDuN9Qya7FL5fnkHBmwTwVtldnLhonNjxciywZpUY5qNo5sBZopkwLKEhMRozOk1Gc1UZmgqd8N8fHZtU_Nu_jh8ce16u9u&cce=2&category=acrcp_v1_33&sig=AOD64_11hQl0fbnvR_RYQXR9qbtRzHVb_g&q&sqi=2&nis=6&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwjjx_3ghfGUAxVwJNAFHWJoBK4Q0Qx6BAgOEAE&ch=1] https://amzn.to/4aAGc09 [https://amzn.to/4aAGc09] * Who Not How by Dan Sullivan https://amzn.to/4xf6b71 [https://amzn.to/4xf6b71] Connect with Nate * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natechallen/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/natechallen/] * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nchallen/ [https://www.instagram.com/nchallen/] * Website: https://www.brandistry.info/ [https://www.brandistry.info/] Connect with me * Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout [https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout [https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout] * LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout [https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout] * Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter [http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter] * Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com [http://www.peoplefluence.com] #HybridWork #HybridTeams #LeadershipDevelopment #NewManagerTips #PeerToManager #LeadingFormerPeers #WorkplaceCulture #ReturnToOffice #LeadershipPodcast #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #ManagementTips #TeamCulture #GlobalLeadership #DigitalTransformation #LeadershipCoaching #CareerGrowth #WorkingGenius #MyersBriggs #LeadingThroughChange #Peoplefluence

016: "I Got Fired, And It Was The Best Thing That Ever Happened To Me" | Ann Eileen Thompson

Ann Eileen Thompson spent nearly 30 years climbing to the top. Global teams at Procter & Gamble. A company she co-founded, scaled onto the Inc. 500, and sold. From the outside, a flawless leadership career. And then she got fired, and she will look you dead in the eye and tell you she had it coming. Most people who get walked out the door spend years telling everyone how wrong the company was. Ann did the opposite. She admitted they were right, and that single act of honesty cracked open the most important lesson of her entire career. In this conversation, Ann and Katie go somewhere most leadership conversations are too polished to go. She reveals the exact habit that got her fired, the one almost every single person reading this is guilty of without realizing it. When she stopped respecting a boss, she quietly gathered the other frustrated people and built a coalition that all agreed they knew better. It felt like venting in the parking lot. It was actually a slow demolition of the entire team's trust, and it showed up in the business results, not just the mood in the room. And she gets radically honest about the parts we usually hide. What it feels like to be deceived about your own behavior while believing you're the good guy. What to do when you genuinely cannot respect the person you report to. Why a single firing can teach you more than a decade of promotions. And how she walked away from a career that was quietly burning her to the ground, took an eighteen month silence, and rebuilt what she actually wanted from her work and her life. IN THIS EPISODE, YOU’LL DISCOVER: * Why criticizing people from the outside almost never changes their behavior * The "get inside the tent" approach to leading people through growth and change * The real difference between calling people up and calling people out * Why hard conversations are the core of leadership, not a side task * How venting about your boss to coworkers quietly erodes trust across a whole team * The healthy and unhealthy ways to handle a leader you don't respect * What getting fired taught Ann about accountability and self-awareness * The one question every leader should ask after losing a job or a team member * How the best mentors create growth without ever telling you exactly what to do * The first step to take when you feel stuck and can't name what you actually want We talk about: 00:00 Intro 02:30 The moment a teacher called her a leader before she saw it in herself 05:00 What great coaching looks like: goalposts, milestones, and room to figure it out 07:30 Her first hard conversation and learning to lead through conflict 10:00 The career path: Ohio State, Macy's, and learning how to influence people 12:30 Why P&G became her crash course in real leadership 14:30 Learning as much from the bad leaders as the good ones 16:00 Get inside the tent: the difference between calling people up and calling people out 19:00 The condescending boss and what bad leadership actually feels like 21:30 Healthy vs. unhealthy ways to cope with a leader you can't respect 24:00 How gossip seeds division and quietly hits business results 26:30 The job where she seeded division and got fired 29:00 Why she now says they were right to fire her 31:00 The warning signs she blew off, and why 33:00 How she'd coach her former self: respect, decide, stay or go 35:30 How faith reshaped the way she leads and works 42:00 Burnout, selling the company, and the reset that followed 45:00 Rediscovering what actually brings her joy 48:30 The mission she lives now: coaching people toward purpose 51:00 How to start when you feel stuck and don't know what comes next Resources: * Try Softer by Aundi Kolber https://amzn.to/4ekHvCF [https://amzn.to/4ekHvCF] * Good to Great by Jim Collins https://amzn.to/4uL0QTp [https://amzn.to/4uL0QTp] * The Leadership Challenge by James M. Kouzes and Barry Z. Posner https://amzn.to/4ubSyCY [https://amzn.to/4ubSyCY] * Experiencing God by Henry Blackaby, Richard Blackaby, & Claude King https://amzn.to/4vp55ns [https://amzn.to/4vp55ns] Connect with Ann * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anneileenthompson/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/anneileenthompson/] * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ann_eileen_thompson/ [https://www.instagram.com/ann_eileen_thompson/] * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/anneileenthompson/ [https://www.facebook.com/anneileenthompson/] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FaithDrivenLeader [https://www.youtube.com/@FaithDrivenLeader] * Website: https://anneileenthompson.com/ [https://anneileenthompson.com/] Connect with me * Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout [https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout [https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout] * LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout [https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout] * Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter [http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter] * Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com [http://www.peoplefluence.com] #Leadership #HardConversations #FaithAtWork

015: The Workforce Blind Spot Costing Companies Billions | Teresa Tanner

What if the talent problem isn't hiring, it's what happens after great people walk out the door? In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie sits down with Teresa Tanner, former Chief Administrative Officer at Fifth Third Bank and founder of Reserve Squad, a company helping organizations build alumni talent communities so former employees can return for project-based work. Teresa spent 18 years at McDonald's Corporation and rose through the C-suite before leaving to solve a workforce problem she kept seeing over and over: companies watching incredible talent walk out the door with no plan to bring them back. Less than 10% of women who pause their careers ever return to the company they left. Most organizations assume that's just how it goes. Teresa built an entirely new business model to prove it doesn't have to be. This conversation goes deep on what it actually costs to lose a star employee, why the all-or-nothing structure of most jobs doesn't serve today's workforce, and what leaders can do right now to stop the bleed. But it's also a deeply personal episode – about insecurity, big mistakes, mentorship, leading as a woman in a man's world, and what it means to find your voice. If you've ever lost someone great and wished there was a better way, or if you're the person who left and never went back, this episode is for you. IN THIS EPISODE, YOU’LL DISCOVER: * Why less than 10% of women who leave a company ever return to it * What companies get wrong about retirees and stay-at-home parents * How Reserve Squad's alumni talent model works and why it's changing workforce strategy * What exit interviews kept revealing about identity, purpose, and the all-or-nothing trap * Why being afraid to be fired makes you a worse leader * How one boss's response to a ~$250K mistake became a masterclass in accountability * What it's really like to be the only woman in the room at the C-suite level * Why Teresa keeps the quote "don't be afraid to be fired" taped to her monitor * The advice that changed everything: hold your why tightly, stay open-handed about the how * What Teresa would go back and tell her eighth-grade self We talk about: * 00:00 The moment Teresa first realized she was a leader and why she lied about it * 03:00 From McDonald's to the C-suite: 18 years and what she learned * 05:00 The workforce problem Teresa kept seeing on the way out the door * 06:00 The stat that started it all: less than 10% of women go back * 08:00 How Reserve Squad works and why they become the employer of record * 09:00 The assumptions companies make about retirees and parents (and why they're wrong) * 12:00 Exit interviews, identity, and the all-or-nothing trap * 13:00 "We have to draw new boxes" and what the current talent structure is missing * 14:00 The inflection point: when Teresa started believing in her own potential * 16:00 The ~$250K mistake, the resignation letter, and the boss who refused to accept it * 19:00 What accountability without shame actually looks like in leadership * 21:00 Why she kept "don't be afraid to be fired" taped to her monitor * 22:00 What it was like to be the only woman in the room * 25:00 Finding your voice as a woman leader and passing that along * 26:00 Navigating motherhood and a C-suite career at the same time * 28:00 Lightning round: Enneagram, Egonomics, and Alicia Keys * 33:00 Where to find Teresa and Reserve Squad Resources: * Egonomics by David Marcum and Steven Smith https://amzn.to/43gYuj4 [https://amzn.to/43gYuj4] * Working Genius Assessment: http://www.workinggenius.comwww.workinggenius.com [http://www.workinggenius.com] * The Six Types of Working Genius: https://amzn.to/4fsKIkI [https://amzn.to/4fsKIkI] Connect with Teresa * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teresa-tanner/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/teresa-tanner/] * Website: https://reservesquad.com/ [https://reservesquad.com/] Connect with me * Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout [https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout [https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout] * LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout [https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout] * Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter [http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter] * Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com [http://www.peoplefluence.com] #AlumniTalent #LeadershipDevelopment #WomenInLeadership

014: Why Smart Teams Still Fail (And the Tool That Fixes It) | Katie Armentrout

What if you're not burned out because you have too much to do, but because you're doing too much of the wrong work? In this solo episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout shares the personal story behind why she left corporate America and the two books by Pat Lencioni that finally gave her the language to understand it. What she couldn't name in that meeting with her VP, a personality assessment helped her explain years later. This episode is a deep dive into the Working Genius assessment, a productivity tool and personality framework that helps individuals and teams understand what types of work energize them, what drains them, and how to have better conversations because of it. Katie breaks down all six types of working genius, what it looks like when a team is missing one, and how a single team map helped one of her clients go from launching 22 products in a year to 8, with 10x revenue growth. Self-awareness is the most important quality in any leader. Not communication. Not strategy. Not confidence. Self-awareness. And this episode gives you a practical tool to start building it today. If you've ever walked into your manager's office and said "I'm burned out, I'm frustrated, I'm unhappy" without knowing what to do next, this episode gives you the language you were missing. In this episode, you’ll discover: * Why burnout is usually about the type of work you're doing, not the amount * The six types of working genius and what each one means for your team * Why having smart, good people does not automatically create a healthy culture * How one team went from chaos to 10x revenue growth by finding their gap * Why self-awareness is the number one leadership quality (and how to practice it) * The difference between a personality assessment and a working genius team map * How to turn emotional conversations into solvable problems * What happens when a team skips the discernment phase (and how to fix it) * Why 80 to 85 percent of the benefit comes from taking assessments as a team, not solo * How to use a common language framework to reduce team drama and conflict We talk about: * 00:00 The moment that started it all: burnout, frustration, and not having the words * 03:00 Leaving corporate America and why Katie had no grand plan * 06:00 The conference that changed everything and Pat Lencioni's Five Dysfunctions of a Team * 08:00 How good people can still create a toxic culture (and what leaders miss) * 10:00 Introducing the Working Genius: the six phases of all work * 12:00 Why tenacity was draining Katie and what that reveals about burnout * 14:00 The conversation you could have had if your team knew working genius * 16:00 Real client case study: 22 products, missing discernment, and the team map that fixed it * 19:00 From launching 22 products to 8, and 10x revenue growth in one year * 21:00 Why 50% of your work should be in your genius zone (and what happens if it isn't) * 22:00 Self-awareness as the number one leadership quality and why most leaders miss it * 23:00 Why your team already knows your weaknesses even if you don't admit them * 24:00 How to claim your free Working Genius debrief with Katie Resources: * The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Pat Lencioni: https://amzn.to/497rs8y [https://amzn.to/497rs8y] * The Six Types of Working Genius by Pat Lencioni: https://amzn.to/4dI8QOZ [https://amzn.to/4dI8QOZ] * Working Genius Assessment: http://www.workinggenius.comwww.workinggenius.com [http://www.workinggenius.com] * Reach out to Katie directly to receive your assessment code and a free debrief session. Email katie@peoplefluence.com and mention the podcast. Connect with me * Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout [https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout [https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout] * LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout [https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout] * Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter [http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter] * Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com [http://www.peoplefluence.com] #WorkingGenius #LeadershipDevelopment #TeamCulture