How Third to First Reimagines EPLI to Support Employees and Reduce Toxic Workplace Culture

Beyond Silos: Chase Sterling on the Wellbeing Think Tank & Outcomes-Based Wellness

Host Barbara Zabawa welcomes Chase Sterling, executive director of the Wellbeing Think Tank [https://www.wellbeingthinktank.org/], a 501(c)(3) founded in 2021 that convenes monthly events and an annual summit to elevate evidence-based, integrated workplace wellbeing practices. Sterling explains she created the organization after seeing workplace wellness treated too narrowly and siloed, arguing wellbeing at work requires supporting individuals while changing organizational systems such as leadership, environment, and policies. The conversation covers a rise in outcomes-based programs tied to biometric standards and healthcare-cost pressures, and the need for employers to stop placing responsibility solely on employees and instead ensure workplaces “at a bare minimum” do not cause harm. Sterling shares tactics for influencing leadership by aligning wellbeing initiatives to business problems, using data, and addressing barriers like paid time for preventive care and manager accountability. 00:00 Welcome and Introductions 01:16 What Is Think Tank 04:19 Outcomes Programs Return 06:40 Shared Responsibility at Work 12:03 Selling to Leadership 15:48 Preventive Care Example 18:21 Who Leads Implementation 22:02 How to Get Involved 23:14 Podcast Closing Notes Learn more about Wellness Law at www.wellnesslaw.com [https://wellnesslaw.com/].

Setting Standards for Health & Wellness Coaching in Healthcare - Jennifer Lundman

Host Barbara Zabawa interviews Jennifer Lundman, executive director of the Institute for Behavior Change, about why the Institute was founded in the last year to develop credible, sustainable standards for health and wellness coaching—especially for coaches working inside healthcare systems. Lundman describes collaborating with coaches, health systems, and healthcare professionals to confront skepticism and stigma around “wellness,” clarify scope of practice, and build governance, integrity, and evidence for the profession. She shares that the Institute has developed standards, psychometrically validated competencies, and will launch a beta exam soon, with next steps including advocacy, implementation science-based clinical workflows, and research to strengthen generalizable evidence and expand access in underserved communities. They discuss billing codes as still “to be determined” and announce the Catalyst Convening [https://www.instituteforbehaviorchange.org/catalyst-convening]in Columbia, Missouri (July 31 reception; August 1–2 main event), with details at instituteforbehaviorchange.org. 00:00 Welcome and Introductions 01:13 What Is the Institute 03:22 Why Standards Matter 05:09 Healthcare Skepticism and Scope 09:10 Validated Competencies and Exam 10:04 Implementation and Research Pillars 13:12 Protecting Coaching as a Profession 15:43 Billing Codes Reality Check 17:10 Catalyst Convening Details 19:34 Wrap Up and Resources Learn more about Wellness Law at www.wellnesslaw.com [https://wellnesslaw.com/].

Thriving Under Pressure: The Vascular Impact of Stress in High-Stress Workplaces

Host Barbara Zabawa welcomes Mark Brezzell, a former cardiovascular perfusionist with over 20 years in medical affairs who now runs a wellness business focused on the vascular impact of stress. Drawing on his experience in cardiac surgery and developing vascular stents, Brezzell explains that many serious vascular conditions stem from lifestyle and long-term stress, and argues for prevention rather than only medical or legal “intervention.” He outlines practical principles for sustainable performance—fresh air, sunshine, rest, hydration, diet, exercise, and reducing processed foods that drive inflammation—and urges individuals to audit daily habits. Brezzell also advises employers and law firms to address organizational contributors to stress by building in breaks, healthy options, and perspectives that reduce burnout, absenteeism, and declining productivity, noting stress is a physiological condition that can manifest over years and increasingly at younger ages. Learn more about Mark's work at https://www.mdbliveconnext.com/about [https://www.mdbliveconnext.com/about] or visit his LinkedIn page [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-brezzell-590a541b/]. 00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro 01:34 Why Stress and Vascular Health 02:53 Prevention Over Intervention 05:27 Law and Medicine Parallels 07:11 Eight Principles for Performance 10:35 Workplace Culture and Leadership 13:35 Making the Business Case 17:24 Toxic Culture and Warning Signs 19:22 When Stress Becomes Disease 21:43 Employer Incentives and Age 25:14 How to Connect and Final Takeaway 28:16 Podcast Outro and Resources Learn more about Wellness Law at www.wellnesslaw.com [https://wellnesslaw.com/].

How Third to First Reimagines EPLI to Support Employees and Reduce Toxic Workplace Culture

Host Barbara Zabawa welcomes Kit Chaskin and Lauren Golanty, co-founders of Third to First, to discuss how traditional Employment Practices Liability Insurance (EPLI) frames employees who report harassment or discrimination as adverse third parties, discouraging reporting and shaping HR and management practices. They explain their “Third to First” endorsement, which converts EPLI to first-party reimbursement coverage for verified employee-on-employee Title VII harms after a company investigation, helping fund efforts to make survivors whole (such as counseling or team transfers) while also supporting accountability for harassers, including potential termination and related claims. The guests share their timeline from early R&D to Fast Company recognition and describe their services helping employers, brokers, and insurers implement the endorsement and roll it out internally to encourage early reporting and safer workplaces. Learn more at https://www.thirdtofirst.com/ [https://www.thirdtofirst.com/],  00:00 Welcome and Introductions 02:01 What Is EPLI 03:45 Why EPLI Hurts Workers 06:01 Third to First Solution 06:58 Origin Story and R&D 09:39 How the Endorsement Works 12:16 Training and Systemic Change 14:37 Reporting and HR Trust Gap 16:53 Rollout and Early Reporting 18:53 Services and Business Model 21:03 Who Adopts This 22:38 How to Learn More 24:32 Closing Thanks Learn more about Wellness Law at www.wellnesslaw.com [https://wellnesslaw.com/].

Workplace Bullying, Executive Abuse & Accountability: Kim Williams on the Fair Path Project

Host Barbara Zabawa interviews Kim Williams, founder of the Fair Path Project, [https://www.fairpathproject.com/] about confronting workplace bullying—especially executive abuse—and its impact on employee wellbeing and organizational culture. Williams, a former U.S. diplomat and veteran HR executive, shares how she was directed into HR, why work is central to people’s lives, and how her own experience being abused by a chief executive revealed gaps in accountability when boards and counsel refuse to act. She explains how Fair Path Project builds leverage for employees and HR through training, consulting, coaching, and “leverage labs,” and highlights emerging accountability via liability insurers that raise premiums or require remediation when companies tolerate harassment and toxic culture. Williams also describes efforts to connect affected workers with attorneys, share creative legal strategies, and quantify the financial cost of keeping a “brilliant jerk.” 00:00 Welcome to the Podcast 00:15 Meet Kim Williams 02:23 Why Work Shapes Wellness 03:25 Surviving Executive Abuse 05:38 What Fair Path Does 15:13 Leverage Labs and Legal Paths 17:23 Coaching HR and Executives Learn more about Wellness Law at www.wellnesslaw.com [https://wellnesslaw.com/].