If Humans Were Better Beings, They'd Be Elephants — with Steve Koyle

Jordan World Circus Ends Elephant Acts for 2026 — with Debbie Metzler, PETA

For the first time in years, Jordan World Circus is touring without elephants. In early 2026, the circus confirmed it would not use elephants for the rest of its tour. In this episode, Danielle and David sit down with Debbie Metzler of PETA to unpack how that decision came about, what it means for the elephants who had been on the road, and whether it will hold. At the center of the story is Viola, the elephant PETA has called "the most desperate elephant in the world." Taken from her home as a baby more than five decades ago, she has spent her life with Carson & Barnes Circus and has tried to escape at least four times, including the viral 2024 walk through the streets of Butte, Montana. Debbie traces the campaign that tracked Jordan World to every stop, the leasing loophole that lets a circus with a revoked USDA license keep using elephants anyway, the economics that make the elephant rides worth more than the tickets, and the settlements that let repeat offenders wipe their records clean. This is a real victory, and it is not the finish line. Viola and sixteen other elephants are still confined at the Endangered Ark Foundation in Oklahoma, where public bathing encounters and bullhooks continue. The conversation closes where every fight like this one does: with what it will take to get these elephants somewhere they can finally just be elephants, and what each of us can do to help them get there. ---------------------------------------- ABOUT DEBBIE METZLER & PETA Debbie Metzler is the Managing Director of Captive Wildlife for PETA's Captive Animal Law Enforcement division, where she oversees campaigns and legal advocacy on behalf of wild animals used in circuses, roadside zoos, and other traveling attractions. PETA has campaigned against Jordan World Circus and its use of animals for more than thirty years. You can urge Carson & Barnes Circus to end its animal acts and retire Viola and the other elephants to a reputable sanctuary, and sign up for PETA's news and action alerts to follow this campaign and others. 🌐 peta.org [http://peta.org] ✊ Take action for Viola: support.peta.org [http://support.peta.org] 📸 Instagram: @peta [https://www.instagram.com/peta] ---------------------------------------- ABOUT THE WEEPING ELEPHANT PROJECT Weeping Elephant Project is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness and affecting change for circus and zoo elephants in the United States. Change is more accessible through collaboration. Bearing Weight is our effort to bring those voices together — because the work is stronger when it's shared. Consider donating to support the work we're doing: 🌐 weepingelephant.org [http://weepingelephant.org] 📸 Instagram: @weepingelephantproject [https://www.instagram.com/weepingelephantproject]

Rewriting Centuries of Tradition — with Sangita Iyer

Sangita Iyer didn't set out to make a film that would be nominated at the United Nations General Assembly. She set out to tell the truth about what was happening to elephants in the temples of Kerala — and the truth turned out to be something the world needed to see. In this episode, Sangita takes us inside her decades of work documenting the plight of temple elephants in India — the suffering hidden behind centuries of tradition, the cultural and institutional forces that work to keep it that way, and what it has cost her personally to keep speaking anyway. We also explore the work of the Voice for Asian Elephants Society, from a robotic elephant project challenging the need for live animals in religious festivals, to securing corridor land that keeps wild elephants out of villages and out of captivity in the first place. This is a conversation about what happens when you can't look away — and what you build when looking away is no longer an option. ---------------------------------------- ABOUT SANGITA IYER & THE VOICE FOR ASIAN ELEPHANTS SOCIETY Sangita Iyer is a biologist, journalist, and filmmaker whose work has brought the plight of Asian elephants to a global audience. Her documentary Gods in Shackles received 13 international film festival awards and was nominated at the UN General Assembly. Sangita is also the recipient of the Nari Shakti Puraskar — India's highest civilian honor for women — awarded by the President of India for her work exposing the exploitation of elephants in the name of culture and religion. Dr. Jane Goodall has written the foreword to Sangita's book and endorsed the Voice for Asian Elephants Society, calling the work essential. Through VFAES, Sangita continues to fight for wild and captive Asian elephants through advocacy, education, and on-the-ground conservation projects. 🌐 vfaes.org [http://vfaes.org] 🎬 Watch Gods in Shackles: unchainedtv.com [http://unchainedtv.com] 📖 Gods in Shackles — the book: amazon.com [http://amazon.com] ---------------------------------------- ABOUT THE WEEPING ELEPHANT PROJECT Weeping Elephant Project is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness and affecting change for circus and zoo elephants in the United States. Bearing Weight is our effort to bring those voices together — because the work is stronger when it's shared. Consider donating to support the work we're doing: weepingelephant.org [http://weepingelephant.org] 🌐 weepingelephant.org [http://weepingelephant.org] 📸 Instagram: @weepingelephantproject [https://www.instagram.com/weepingelephantproject]

How AI Is Changing the Way We Study Elephants — with Frank Pope

Frank Pope came to elephants by accident. He spent years with his eyes fixed on the ocean, until he looked into the eye of an elephant in Samburu and felt the same thing he'd felt looking into a whale's eye. That was enough. In this episode, Frank takes us inside the research engine at Save the Elephants, from using AI to assess camera-trap footage to reveal that scientists were missing 30% of elephants in aerial surveys, to the groundbreaking study that proved elephants give each other names. We also wrestle with the harder question underneath all of it — whether the upsides of AI in conservation are worth the misinformation, fake fundraising campaigns, and displacement it leaves in its wake. This is a conversation about science, technology, legacy, and what it means to keep fighting for a future that isn't guaranteed. ---------------------------------------- ABOUT FRANK POPE & SAVE THE ELEPHANTS Frank Pope is the CEO of Save the Elephants, an organization founded by the late Ian Douglas-Hamilton — one of the most significant figures in elephant conservation history, and Frank's father-in-law. Under Frank's leadership, Save the Elephants operates at the center of a continental network of more than 120 organizations across Africa, funding field research, supporting local communities, and developing the tools that are redefining how we understand and protect elephants in the wild. 💛 Donate to support their mission [http://savetheelephants.org/donate-page-us] 🌐 savetheelephants.org [http://savetheelephants.org] 📸 Instagram: @savetheelephants [https://www.instagram.com/savetheelephants/] ---------------------------------------- ABOUT THE WEEPING ELEPHANT PROJECT The Weeping Elephant Project is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness and affecting change for circus and zoo elephants in the United States. Bearing Weight is our effort to bring those voices together — because the work is stronger when it's shared. Consider donating [https://weepingelephant.org/donate] to support the work we're doing, and follow along with our work: 🌐 weepingelephant.org [http://weepingelephant.org] 📸 Instagram: @weepingelephantproject [https://www.instagram.com/weepingelephantproject]

If Humans Were Better Beings, They'd Be Elephants — with Steve Koyle

Steve Koyle didn't set out to be a disruptor. He just couldn't stop asking for more. In this episode, Steve takes us through 14 years as an elephant keeper at the Phoenix Zoo, and how his passion for elephant welfare ultimately led to him being fired. It was, he says, the best thing that ever happened to elephants. Today Steve travels the world through Elephant Care Unchained, showing up at zoos, temples, camps, and sanctuaries with one simple goal: whatever this is, make it better. It's unglamorous, exhausting, often heartbreaking work — done without a home address, out of a suitcase, powered entirely by intention. This is a conversation about reform, resilience, and what it means to speak on behalf of animals who didn't sign up for any of this. ---------------------------------------- ABOUT STEVE KOYLE & ELEPHANT CARE UNCHAINED Steve Koyle is the founder of Elephant Care Unchained, a nonprofit working globally to improve elephant welfare by training handlers and supporting the transition to humane care practices. Steve's decades of hands-on experience give him a unique and hard-earned perspective on what elephants in captivity need — and what it takes to change the culture around them. He is currently launching a campaign to help the elephants nobody knows about, bringing awareness and care to captive elephants living in conditions that rarely make headlines. 🌐 elephantcareunchained.com [http://elephantcareunchained.com] 📸 Instagram: @elephantcareunchained [https://www.instagram.com/elephantcareunchained/] 💛 Donate to support Steve's mission: elephantcareunchained.com/donate [http://elephantcareunchained.com/donate] ---------------------------------------- ABOUT THE WEEPING ELEPHANT PROJECT The Weeping Elephant Project is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness and affecting change for circus and zoo elephants in the United States. Bearing Weight is our effort to bring voices together — because the work is stronger when it's shared. Consider donating to support the work we're doing: weepingelephant.org [http://weepingelephant.org] 🌐 weepingelephant.org [http://weepingelephant.org] 📸 Instagram: @weepingelephantproject [https://www.instagram.com/weepingelephantproject]

Putting Elephants First — with Katherine Connor

What does it actually take for a traumatized elephant to begin to heal? And what does it mean to be a truly ethical traveler in a world where every venue calls itself a sanctuary? In part two of our conversation with Katherine Connor, we move from her personal story into the broader landscape of elephant welfare in Thailand. Kat takes us inside the recovery process at BLES — where no two elephants heal the same way, and where true sanctuary means recognizing that trauma sits differently in every individual. She challenges the misconception that rescue is a fairy tale, and shares what it really looks like when an elephant finally feels safe. We also explore one of the most misunderstood relationships in elephant welfare: the bond between elephants and their mahouts. Kat makes a compelling and compassionate case for why mahouts are not the enemy — and why the responsibility for change lies with all of us. This is a conversation that will challenge the way you think about tourism, advocacy, and what it truly means to put elephants first. ---------------------------------------- ABOUT KATHERINE CONNOR & BLES Katherine Connor is the founder of Boon Lott's Elephant Sanctuary in Sukhothai, Thailand — one of the world's most respected true sanctuaries for elephants. BLES has been operating for 20+ years and has rescued over 45 elephants in Boon Lott's name, providing them with hundreds of acres of land, a mahout family that has cared for elephants for generations, and a life defined by freedom, space, and dignity. 🌐 blesele.org [http://blesele.org] 📸 Instagram: @blesele [https://www.instagram.com/blesele/] 🐘 Adopt an elephant: blesele.org/adopt [http://blesele.org/adopt] 💛 Donate: blesele.org/financial-gift [http://blesele.org/financial-gift] ---------------------------------------- ABOUT THE WEEPING ELEPHANT PROJECT The Weeping Elephant Project is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness and affecting change for circus and zoo elephants in the United States. Bearing Weight is our effort to bring voices together — because the work is stronger when it's shared. Consider donating to support the work we're doing: weepingelephant.org [http://weepingelephant.org] 🌐 weepingelephant.org [http://weepingelephant.org] 📸 Instagram: @weepingelephantproject [https://www.instagram.com/weepingelephantproject] ---------------------------------------- If you haven't listened yet, go back and start with Part One — A Promise to Boon Lott — to hear Katherine's full origin story and the remarkable life of the elephant who started it all.