Deviate

What movies (do and don't) show us about places before we travel there

“When we don't foster local filmmaking traditions, we end up making movies about what we think life is like in the cities we do see movies about.” – Jason Bailey In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jason talk about how being from Kansas influenced their careers as travel writers and film critics, and the long cultural shadow of The Wizard of Oz (2:30); how Jason's career started by making independent movies in Wichita, what those movies were like, and how he remembers them now (9:00); how many New York movies were shot in Los Angeles in the early part of the 20th century (19:00); how filmmaking moved back to New York during a less-than-glamorous time in the city's history, and how it's important to tell one more story about a place (26:00); and how technology might change the way movies are made and watched in the future (32:00). Jason Bailey (@jasondashbailey [https://bsky.app/profile/jasondashbailey.com]) is an author and film critic, whose writing has appeared in such publications as the New York Times and Rolling Stone. He is the author of six books, including Fun City Cinema: New York City and the Movies that Made It [https://amzn.to/487ic3R], and Pulp Fiction: The Complete Story of Quentin Tarantino’s Masterpiece [https://www.amazon.com/Pulp-Fiction-Complete-Tarantinos-Masterpiece/dp/0760344795].  Notable Links: * Kansas Never Plays Itself [https://rolfpotts.com/kansas](video essay) * Celebrating the genius of Pulp Fiction [https://rolfpotts.com/podcast/pulp-fiction/] (Deviate episode) * Joan Didion [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Didion] (American author and essayist) * Lady Bird [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Bird_(film)] (2017 film) * Fargo [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fargo_(1996_film)] (1996 film) * The Wizard of Oz at Sphere [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wizard_of_Oz_at_Sphere] (4D AI film in Las Vegas) * Alissa Wilkinson [https://www.alissawilkinson.com/] (American film critic) * Richard Brody [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Brody] (American critic) * Pauline Kael [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Kael] (American critic) * My Day in the Barrel [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0159587/] (1998 Jason Bailey movie) * Salvage anthropology [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvage_anthropology] (method of documenting declining cultures) * Los Angeles Plays Itself [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Plays_Itself](2003 essay film) * Actuality film [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actuality_film] (early type of nonfiction motion picture) * Martin Scorsese [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Scorsese] (American filmmaker) * The Naked City [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_City] (1948 film) * Fame [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fame_(1980_film)] (1980 film) * Jim Jarmusch [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jarmusch] (American filmmaker) * John Cassavetes [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cassavetes] (American filmmaker) * Media 100 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_100] (video editing system) * Microdrama [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdrama](serialized short-form online video) * Mumblecore [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumblecore](subgenre of independent film) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu [https://cedarsvt.bandcamp.com/album/lumber]mber [https://cedarsvt.bandcamp.com/album/lumber]. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Exploring the idiosyncrasies of male friendship, with Andrew McCarthy

“I asked everyone if they were lonely. All the guys my age said 'no, I'm too busy; too much going on.' When I answer that quickly I'm either lying or it's something I'm afraid of.” – Andrew McCarthy In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Andrew talk about why Andrew took a USA road trip to reconnect with his friends (2:15); what kinds of friends Andrew sought out, why none of them were public figures, and how loneliness is bad for men's health (8:00); the kinds of men Andrew spoke with in passing on the trip, why Andrew sought out Elvis Presley sites on the road, and how women's friendships differ from men's (17:30); Andrew's takeaways from his road trip, why "showing up" for people is important, and how travel can be the "university of life" (28:00); audience questions about friendships between younger men, the rumored possibility of a St. Elmo's Fire sequel, the task of recording an audiobook, creepy things that happened on the road, and how travel inevitably makes us more open and curious (35:30). Andrew McCarthy [https://andrewmccarthy.com/] (@AndrewTMcCarthy [https://twitter.com/andrewtmccarthy?lang=en]) is an actor, television director and writer of such books as The Longest Way Home [https://www.amazon.com/Longest-Way-Home-Courage-Settle-ebook/dp/B0061OI0VK], Brat [https://amzn.to/43gdqfl] and Walking with Sam [https://amzn.to/43gdxHN]. His newest book is Who Needs Friends: An Unscientific Examination of Male Friendship Across America [https://amzn.to/4bUuu1B]. Notable Links: * Tips for telling travel stories [https://rolfpotts.com/podcast/travel-writing-andrew-mccarthy/], with Andrew McCarthy (Deviate episode) * Paris Writing Workshops [https://pariswritingworkshops.com/] (summer learning-vacation classes) * Travels with Charley in Search of America [https://amzn.to/4c05R3L], by John Steinbeck (book) * Brat Pack [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brat_Pack] (group of young 1980s actors) * Elvis Presley Birthplace [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley_Birthplace] (museum site in Tupelo, Mississippi) * Camps Promising to Turn You into an Alpha Male [https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/04/06/the-camps-promising-to-turn-you-or-your-son-into-an-alpha-male] (article) * Comstock, Texas [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comstock,_Texas] (incorporated community) * Joshua Speed [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Fry_Speed] (close friend of Abraham Lincoln) * St. Elmo's Fire [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Elmo%27s_Fire_(film)] (1985 movie) * Geoff Dyer [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoff_Dyer] (English author and travel writer) * Strawberry Hill [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawberry_Hill_(Kansas_City,_Kansas)] (neighborhood in Kansas City, Kansas) * The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu [https://cedarsvt.bandcamp.com/album/lumber]mber [https://cedarsvt.bandcamp.com/album/lumber]. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Debunking the mythology of BEFORE SUNRISE, with co-writer Kim Krizan (in Paris)

"I think you have to pick your battles when you're collaborating with people." – Kim Krizan Kim Krizan (@kimkrizan [https://www.instagram.com/kimkrizan/]) is the Oscar-nominated cowriter of the Before Sunrise [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Before_trilogy] movies, and the author of Spy in the House of Anaïs Nin [https://amzn.to/4md4Ist]. Notable Links: * Kim Krizan on the philosophy of Before Sunrise [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUspQxWiwFg&t=246s] (YouTube video) * Screenwriting in Paris class, with Kim Krizan  [https://pariswritingworkshops.com/screenwriting/](creative writing class) * Paris Writing Workshops [https://pariswritingworkshops.com/] (summer learning-vacation classes) * Before Sunrise [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Before_Sunrise] (1995 movie) * Ethan Hawke [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Hawke] (American actor and director) * Julie Delpy [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Delpy] (French actress and director) * Richard Linklater  [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Linklater](American filmmaker) * Slacker [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slacker_(film)] (1990 film) * Dazed and Confused [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazed_and_Confused_(film)] (1993 film) * Anaïs Nin  [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana%C3%AFs_Nin](French-American diarist and novelist) * Reality Bites [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Bites](1994 movie) * Robin Wright [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Wright] (American actress) * Lili Taylor [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lili_Taylor] (American actress) * The Prater [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prater](public park in Vienna) * Waking Life [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waking_Life] (2001 film) * Forrest Mallard editing and marketing services [https://tramposaurus.com/work-with-me/] * Kansas Never Plays Itself [https://rolfpotts.com/kansas](video essay by Rolf Potts)

Super Bowl special: Why football kind of matters, with Chuck Klosterman (kind of)

“I wish I loved sports, and particularly football, a lot less than I do. It consumes too much of my memory and too much of my time.” – Chuck Klosterman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about why he's talking to Chuck Klosterman's former roommate Michael Weinreb about Chuck's book Football [https://amzn.to/46xTZmb], rather than Chuck himself (2:00); football-themed video games, and the difference between emotional and analytical sports fandom (7:00); Pico Iyer's appearance in the movie Marty Supreme, how podcasting has changed the landscape, and how streaming video has become the standard way to watch even high school football (17:00); why going to football games in person is a "pagan" experience of games that is completely different than watching them on TV, and how there's a travel parallel in experiencing distant places in person (24:00); how important the season and the weather is to the experience of football at both the experiential and metaphorical level (32:00); what might become of football, and why it persists as the object of fandom even by people who've never played it (39:00). Michael Weinreb [https://michaelweinreb.com/] (@MichaelWeinreb [https://twitter.com/MichaelWeinreb]) is the author of three sports books, including Game of Kings [https://amzn.to/35bZYeM]; Bigger Than the Game [https://amzn.to/2rEtCe3]; and  Season of Saturdays [https://amzn.to/2RIIeny]. He has been a contributing writer for ESPN, The New York Times, Grantland, Rolling Stone, The Athletic, and The Ringer. His Substack newsletter is called Throwbacks: A Newsletter About Sports History and Culture [https://throwbacks.substack.com/]. Notable Links: * Kicking & Screaming might be the best movie ever [https://rolfpotts.com/podcast/baumbach-kicking-screaming/] (Deviate episode) * Back to Penn State [https://www.thisamericanlife.org/451/back-to-penn-state] (2011 This American Life episode) * Chuck Klosterman [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Klosterman] (author and essayist) * Fargo Rock City [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fargo_Rock_City], by Chuck Klosterman (2001 book) * EA Sports College Football [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EA_Sports_College_Football](video game) * Super Bowl LV [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_LV] (game the Chiefs lost to the Buccaneers) * Super Bowl LIX [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_LIX] (game the Chiefs lost to the Eagles) * A travel writers’ Super Bowl special [https://rolfpotts.com/podcast/super-bowl-pico-iyer/] (Deviate episode) * Pico Iyer [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pico_Iyer] (travel writer and novelist) * Marty Supreme [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Supreme] (2025 sports comedy-drama film) * Chick Hearn [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_Hearn](Los Angeles Lakers announcer) * Wesley Morris on Deviate [https://rolfpotts.com/speaker/wesley-morris/] * Bill Simmons [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Simmons] (American sportswriter and cultural critic) * Football History Deep Dive [https://www.theringer.com/podcasts/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2026/01/13/so-long-rodgers-plus-a-football-history-deep-dive-with-cousin-sal-and-chuck-klosterman] (Bill Simmons Podcast episode) * 2025 Kansas 1A football championship [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6PqMCGCCd8&t=9948s] (high school game video) * Arrowhead Stadium [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowhead_Stadium] (venue for Kansas City Chiefs games) * Communitas [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communitas](concept of the spirit of community) * Rick Steves [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Steves](travel writer and broadcaster) * Lambeau Field [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambeau_Field] (stadium in Green Bay) * Friday Night Lights [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_Night_Lights_(TV_series)] (TV series) * All the Right Moves [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_the_Right_Moves_(film)](1983 film) * The Last Boy Scout [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Boy_Scout] (1991 film) * A Fan's Notes [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fan%27s_Notes], by Frederick Exley (1968 novel) * Roger Goodell [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Goodell] (NFL commissioner) * Men's 1500m race at the 2016 Olympics [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_1500_metres] (sports results) * Men's 1500m race at the 2024 Olympics [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_2024_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_1500_metres] (sports results) * Electronic Quarterback [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Quarterback] (1978 Coleco electronic game) * Jimi Hendrix [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimi_Hendrix](American musician) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu [https://cedarsvt.bandcamp.com/album/lumber]mber [https://cedarsvt.bandcamp.com/album/lumber]. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Time is your truest form of wealth (and travel helps you embrace your riches)

“In teaching us to appreciate rather than accumulate – to seek awe rather than outcomes – travel can be an ongoing exercise in gratitude.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf remixes his interview from the All the Hacks podcast, with Chris Hutchins. They discuss the concept of “Time Wealth,” how it can be actualized through travel, and how it can dovetail with your family and life goals (2:00); what kinds of travel-oriented experiences and attitudes and rituals can help you frame and identify your values and life-goals (10:30); how kids can be a window into new places as a traveler, and why slowing down and "seeing less" helps you experience more on the road (27:00); the limitations of planning your travels around a "Bucket List," and the merits of taking a travel attitude to your home environment (35:30); how to pack when traveling light, and how to use technology wisely on the road (45:30). Chris Hutchins [https://www.chrishutchins.com/] (Instagram: @chrishutchins [https://www.instagram.com/chrishutchins/]) is an avid optimizer and host of a top-ranked podcast, where he shares his quest to upgrade his life without having to spend a fortune. Notable Links: * The Vagabond's Way [https://rolfpotts.com/books/the-vagabonds-way/], by Rolf Potts (books) * Kevin Kelly [https://rolfpotts.com/speaker/kevin-kelly/] (editor and futurist) * Lyft [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyft] (ride-hailing service) * Die With Zero [https://amzn.to/499P50C], by Bill Perkins (book) * Carrefour [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrefour] (French convenience store) * Zamalek [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamalek] (area of Cairo, Egypt) * An Egyptian straight-razor shave in 21 easy steps [https://rolfpotts.com/an-egyptian-straight-razor-shave-in-21-easy-steps/] (video) * Jackfruit [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackfruit] (food) * Raclette [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raclette](Swiss dish) * Père Lachaise [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A8re_Lachaise_Cemetery] (cemetery in Paris) * Frank Alamo [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Alamo] (French singer) * Paris Writing Workshops [https://pariswritingworkshops.com/] (Rolf's writing classes) * Canton [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton,_Mississippi] (town in Mississippi) * Lindsborg, Kansas [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsborg,_Kansas] ("Little Sweden") * Zacatecas [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacatecas] (state in Mexico) * No Baggage Challenge [https://www.rtwblog.com/](Rolf's 2010 no-luggage trip) * AirTreks [https://airtreks.com/] (round-the-world and multi-stop flight planner) * Flâneur [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fl%C3%A2neur](urban wanderer) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu [https://cedarsvt.bandcamp.com/album/lumber]mber [https://cedarsvt.bandcamp.com/album/lumber]. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.