235: You Get Paid for This? with Will Steel

235: You Get Paid for This? with Will Steel

What do you do when you get offered the top job in your industry and you turn it down anyway? Will Steel did exactly that. He grew up in rural Yorkshire, delivering milk at the age of three alongside his mother, who ran the family's milk round for 40 years just to cover the grocery bill. He worked for a stonemason from age 12 to 16, digging graves and mending roofs. He talked his way into an engineering apprenticeship, earned two technician qualifications simultaneously, got into university, discovered the Royal Air Force Flying Club, and became an RAF pilot — something he describes as almost impossibly unlikely for someone with his background. Then he joined the airlines. And hated it. He calls commercial flying "like being a bus driver" — rigidly routed, waiting to get home, doing it for the paycheck and nothing else. When he discovered the Landmark Forum and realized he could make a real difference with people, he was offered the top role in UK aviation: flying long-haul 747-400s out of Heathrow for British Airways. At the same time, he was offered a job starting at the bottom in personal development work — with a 75% pay cut. He took the pay cut. On this episode of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, Will Steel — now a business coach, author of Free to Lead, and host of the Free to Lead podcast — talks with Lori Saitz about the values he was raised with, the career pivots that looked like madness from the outside, and the core problem he now spends his days solving: business owners who are working 65-75 hours a week, trapped inside their own companies, unable to delegate, and wondering why the business is not growing. He also shares the practical tool he uses to help clients get their time back, the story of a car body shop owner who went from chasing $2.5M to landing a $23.5M acquisition offer, and why authenticity is not a feeling — it is a practice of catching yourself being inauthentic and telling the truth about it. Listen on all platforms: Search "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Timestamps: * [00:00] Will calls in from Costa Rica, about to go surfing after this * [01:30] The values he was raised with — and delivering milk at three years old in Yorkshire * [04:00] His mother's 40-year milk round and what his parents built from nothing * [06:00] Hard work vs. working smart: how his thinking evolved * [08:30] The car body shop owner who went from $2.5M to $23.5M in 12 months * [11:00] The unlikely career path: stonemason, engineer, university, RAF pilot * [14:00] Joining the airlines — and why it felt like being a bus driver * [15:30] The Landmark Forum, the British Airways offer, and the 75% pay cut decision * [18:00] "You can't get enough of what you don't really want" * [20:00] Why business owners get stuck in the doing, and what it costs them * [23:00] The 15-minute time audit tool that reveals where the hours actually go * [25:00] The architect who spent 7.5 hours a week driving kids to school — and got it all back * [27:00] Delegation done right: pay for outcomes, not doing * [31:00] What the Saudi Arabia pharmaceutical executive learned about his own communication * [32:00] Authentic leadership: it is not a feeling, it is a practice * [34:00] Rock 'n' Roll Star by Oasis — and why Will almost became a singer instead * [36:30] How to reach Will: willsteel.com | Book: Free to Lead | Podcast: Free to Lead Guest Bio: Will Steel grew up in rural Yorkshire, England, in a family built on work ethic and honesty. His mother ran a milk delivery round for 40 years to cover household expenses while his father worked in a tractor factory. Will worked alongside a stonemason from age 12, completed dual engineering apprenticeships, earned a degree in electronic engineering, and discovered flying through his university's Royal Air Force squadron. He became an RAF pilot, joined commercial aviation, and then walked away from a British Airways 747 captain position to pursue work in personal development after attending the Landmark Forum. He has since spent 27 years coaching business owners and leading large-format programs across industries, helping them identify where they are stuck, recover their time, and grow their businesses by working less hours while generating substantially more. He is the author of Free to Lead and hosts a podcast of the same name. Connect with Will Steel: * Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/will-steel-business-coach-high-performance-transformation/ * Website: willsteel.com * Book: Free to Lead About the Show: Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

234. She Woke Up Angry She Survived with Candice Van Dertholen

Candice Van Dertholen did not arrive at her work in energy healing by reading about it. She lived through it. In this episode of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, host Lori Saitz sits down with energy practitioner Candice Van Dertholen for an unflinching conversation about single parenthood at 22, a Texas maximum security prison career she stumbled into out of financial desperation, an abusive marriage that escalated into a violent car ride with her children in the backseat, and the night she nearly took her own life — waking up in a hospital bed furious that she was still alive. From Joyce Meyer's Battlefield of the Mind on a hospital nightstand to affirmations she wrote thousands of times before she even knew what affirmations were, Candice traces the slow, unglamorous, piece-by-piece rebuilding that took two years before she felt like herself again. She also shares the complicated grief of finding out both ex-husbands had died within the same year, and why disenfranchised grief rarely gets the space it deserves. Now a practitioner who holds space for others in those same pivotal moments, Candice talks about why self-sabotage is almost always a story, why money in alignment multiplies, and what happens when we finally stop running from the relationship with ourselves. Listen on all platforms: Search "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Timestamps: * [00:00] Introductions — Candice and Lori on mutual friend Chris Schembra and life in Charlotte * [01:45] The values she was raised with: personal integrity and the discipline of non-judgment * [03:00] Growing up between two worlds — her mother's nursing work with terminally ill children * [06:00] Her mother's unrecognized PTSD and the compassion Candice finally found, decades later * [08:30] Becoming a single parent at 22 and the judgment she faced in Texas * [09:45] The unexpected detour: corrections officer at a Texas Level 5 max security prison * [13:00] The abusive marriage — how familiar energy patterns kept her from seeing the signs * [15:30] The violent car incident that involved her children and set off a CPS investigation * [18:30] The night she nearly took her life and the hospital room that changed everything * [20:00] The books, therapy, affirmations, and two-year rebuild that followed * [22:00] Finding unexpected permission to leave through a hospital chaplain's words * [24:00] Complex grief: losing both ex-husbands within a year * [28:00] Burnout, 75 Hard, and the yoga studio that led her to energy healing * [30:00] What to do when you feel stuck and unworthy of the next level * [33:00] The song that gets her going: Ready or Not by Britt Nicole Guest Bio: Candice Van Dertholen is an energy practitioner whose path to healing work was forged through personal experience. A single mother of three from a young age, she has navigated poverty, domestic abuse, correctional work, burnout, and near-fatal crisis to arrive at a practice centered on helping others break the self-sabotaging patterns that keep them from the next version of themselves. She works with clients in pivotal transition moments and offers pay-it-forward sessions for those who cannot afford standard rates. She found her work in energy healing through a yoga studio in Virginia, where she met her first practitioner after years of seeking the missing piece in her healing journey. She and her husband are military family who have relocated multiple times across the US. Connect with Candice: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/candicevandertholen/ * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/candice_elizabeth.co/ Candice also offers pay-it-forward sessions for those who need support but are working with limited means. About the Show: Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

233. 17 Years in a Toxic Marriage with Everte Farnell

Everte Farnell spent seventeen years married to a partner he now believes had borderline personality disorder, enduring verbal, emotional, and eventually physical abuse before everything came to a head in his own kitchen. In this conversation, he opens up about why men rarely report abuse, what changed the night his daughter stepped in, and how he rebuilt his health, his confidence, and his life from the ground up. What You'll Learn * Why a majority of domestic abuse incidents involve female aggression toward male partners, and why almost none of it gets reported * How borderline personality traits can drive a partner to undermine the people closest to them out of fear of abandonment * What it actually took for Everett to leave a marriage he had stayed in for years out of fear and outdated research about kids and divorce * How losing over 100 pounds became part of Everett's recovery from years of stress eating and undiagnosed sleep apnea * Why filing for a protective order as a man can come with its own uphill battle in the legal system * How Everett went from believing the world was an emotional hellscape to seeing it as full of opportunity Guest Bio Everte Farnell grew up in the small town of Umatilla, Florida, and built a career as an entrepreneur, including scaling a roofing company to ten times its weekly sales in under sixteen months. After surviving a seventeen-year marriage marked by abuse, he rebuilt his life, lost over 100 pounds, and remarried into what he describes as the healthiest relationship of his life. He now shares his story to help others recognize and talk about abuse that often goes unreported. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 — Introduction and Everett's background growing up in rural Florida 04:00 — The toxic beliefs about money Everett had to unlearn 06:00 — How Everett rewired disempowering beliefs over time 13:00 — Living with smiling depression and undiagnosed sleep apnea 14:00 — Seventeen years married to a partner with borderline traits 20:00 — Why Everett stayed longer than he should have 25:00 — The night everything changed in the kitchen 28:00 — The truth about domestic abuse against men 31:00 — How Everett became more empathetic and rebuilt his life Connect with Everte Farnell: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/everte-farnell-aa77556/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/everte-farnell-aa77556/] Website: https://evertefarnell.com/ [https://evertefarnell.com/] About the Show Fine is a 4-Letter Word is a podcast about what happens when people stop pretending everything is fine and start telling the truth about what they are really going through. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests for honest conversations about the moments that changed everything. Subscribe so you never miss a conversation that might change how you see your own story.

232. The Patterns Running Your Life With Dr. Kevin Mays

You're not failing because of lack of skill or effort. You're failing because of patterns you picked up before you were old enough to choose them. Dr. Kevin Mays, leadership coach and author of Lead Yourself First, built a career helping executives see that the behaviors driving their success are often the exact same ones quietly sabotaging what they're trying to build. What You'll Learn * Why childhood patterns like people-pleasing and humor as a deflection tool show up in the boardroom decades later * How to shift from being run by unconscious programming to making intentional choices from a place of presence * The difference between geographic disruption and internal disruption, and why the latter is the harder and more powerful path * How to reprogram your subconscious using 'I am' statements rather than 'I would like' statements * Why comfort is the true enemy of growth, and what to do about it when you're not at rock bottom * What it really means to step into the void with no plan B and why that clarity can change everything About the Guest: Dr. Kevin Mays is a leadership coach, speaker, and author based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Through his company, Upgrade Your Leadership, he works with executives and founders to uncover the unconscious patterns holding them back and develop the self-awareness needed to lead at a higher level. His book, Lead Yourself First, recently made the Amazon best-seller list. TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 — Cold open and show introduction 01:25 — Welcome and breathing exercise before the call 03:36 — Kevin's upbringing in Michigan: the car company culture and what it programmed 05:22 — Birth order, family patterns, and the youngest child's drive for attention 08:11 — How Kevin began studying self-awareness and what opened that door 09:12 — The motorcycle trip: riding to the Pacific Coast until the bike broke down 12:50 — Aeronautical engineering, near-miss in the airplane, and choosing a different road 15:48 — Identity falling away piece by piece and the moment of real surrender 19:22 — How to strip away constraint without hitting bottom first 22:48 — Quitting his job, moving to Michigan, and committing with no plan B 27:06 — Overcoming early programming: affirmations, rewiring neural pathways, and the piano analogy 31:48 — Releasing constraint vs. replacing it: Kevin pushes back on 'brainwashing' 34:37 — Music, Rumi, and how Kevin finds presence and energy 35:18 — Lori's five key takeaways from the conversation 38:12 — Closing Connect with Dr. Kevin Mays: * Website: https://upgradeyourleadership.com/ * Book: Lead Yourself First (available on Amazon) * Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-kevin-mays/ * Guest Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maysleadership * Kevin's hype song: Friday I'm In Love by The Cure [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGgMZpGYiy8&list=RDmGgMZpGYiy8&start_radio=1] About the Show: Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

231. Promises You Make To Yourself With Scott Lackey

Scott Lackey grew up as a free-range kid roaming the woods and building forts, convinced he had all the time in the world. Then three questions from three people in the span of two weeks turned everything upside down. What followed was a winding path through the military, a failed invention, a Ponzi scheme, and a long list of promises he kept breaking to himself — until one sleepless night during Covid changed the trajectory of his life. In this episode of Fine Is a 4-Letter Word, host Lori Saitz sits down with Scott to unpack the stories behind his upcoming book, including why crossing the finish line is never the actual victory, how military service wired him differently than the civilian world could handle, and why the Ironman he completed wasn't really about endurance at all. Scott shares the moment he realized broken promises to himself were the root of his unrest, and why learning to listen to your inner voice, whether you call it God, instinct, or something else entirely, changes how you move through every challenge. Key Topics Covered: 1. How Scott's free-range upbringing shaped his sense of adventure and created the blind spots that nearly derailed his early adult life 2. The two-week period where three questions from a coach, a teacher, and his father forced him to think about the future for the first time 3. How an Army commercial became the clearest sense of direction he had ever felt 4. Serving with the 1st Infantry Division in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait, and why four years of military service were irreplaceable 5. The Wire Dog invention he built in the desert, the $10,000 Ponzi scheme that ended the dream, and what those failures actually taught him 6. Why Scott believes the gifts are always in the pain, and how that principle shaped his leadership philosophy 7. The danger of taking advice from people who have nothing at stake in your decision 8. How broken promises to yourself erode self-trust, and the internal wake-up call that led him to register for the Ironman 9. The practices Scott uses to stay connected to his inner voice, including journaling, fasting, long workouts, and meditation 10. What the Ironman's question 'What are you willing to sacrifice?' ultimately revealed to him If you've ever felt stuck at 'fine' and couldn't put your finger on why, this conversation will hit close to home. GUEST BIO: Scott Lackey Scott Lackey is a US Army veteran, entrepreneur, Ironman athlete, and author whose life story reads like a series of pivot points, each one forced by failure, chance, or a voice he couldn't quite ignore. He grew up in rural America, joined the Army after seeing a TV commercial that spoke to something he couldn't articulate, and served with the 1st Infantry Division across Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait. After leaving active duty, Scott pursued an entrepreneurial dream built around an invention he'd prototyped in the desert, only to have it derailed by a Ponzi scheme. What followed was years of building, failing, learning, and ultimately creating something worth sustaining. His upcoming book draws on all of it, examining why failure and pain carry more lasting value than the victories people celebrate, and why the hardest promises to keep are often the ones made in private, to yourself. Scott completed a full Ironman (140.6 miles) after a period of quiet internal reckoning during Covid, a decision he kept to himself for six weeks because he didn't yet trust himself to follow through. He's a husband, father, and dedicated student of what it means to live with integrity to your own inner compass. Connect With Scott: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottlackey1/ * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thescottlackey/ * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Thescottlackey/ * X: https://x.com/thescottlackey You may find some of the topics in his top 10 most requested keynotes of topical interest. Link on his website: https://scottlackey.com/speaking/ Another area of possible interest is his published short stories: https://scottlackey.com/published-work/ Subscribe to Fine Is a 4-Letter Word wherever you listen to podcasts. Invitation from Lori: This episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit. Smart business leaders know trust is the foundation of every great workplace. And in today’s hybrid and fast-moving work culture, trust isn’t built in quarterly town halls or the occasional Slack message. It’s built through consistent, clear, and HUMAN communication. Companies and leaders TALK about the importance of connection and community. And it’s easy to believe your organization is doing a great job of maintaining an awesome corporate culture. Because you’ve got annual all-hands and open door policies, and “fun" team-building events. But let's be real. Leaders who are serious about building real trust are finding better ways to strengthen culture, create connection, and foster community. That's where I come in. Forward thinking companies are hiring me to produce internal/private podcasts. To bring leadership and employees together through authentic stories, real conversations, and meaningful connections. Think of it as your old-school printed company newsletter - reinvented for the modern workforce. I KNOW, what a cool idea, right?! If you run, work for, or know of a company that wants to upgrade communication, facilitate connections, build community, and maintain culture, let's chat. Message me at Lori@ZenRabbit.com. Because when people feel heard, they engage.