Fostering Conversations with Utah Foster Care

Ep 71: First-Time Fostering

In this episode of Fostering Conversations, host Amy Smith welcomes back Laura from Foster Parenting to discuss her first book, First Time Fostering. Designed as a practical field guide, the book brings together real-world strategies, scripts, and community-sourced wisdom to support new foster and kinship caregivers. Laura explains why she created a manual that caregivers can jump into by topic, rather than reading cover to cover. The conversation explores how the book helps families who are licensed, waiting for placement, or already feeling overwhelmed. They dive into what caregivers can control inside their homes, from building trust and connection to handling sleep, food, boundaries, and hard conversations.  Amy and Laura also discuss preparing friends and family for fostering, responding to inappropriate questions, advocating with caseworkers, knowing when to say no to a placement, and supporting permanent children already in the home. This episode offers reassurance, validation, and practical tools for foster parents at every stage. In this episode, you’ll hear: * Why First Time Fostering was written as a practical, topic-based field guide * How new foster parents can use the book when they feel overwhelmed * What caregivers can control inside their homes, even when the system feels chaotic * The power of scripts and role-play for hard parenting moments * How to prepare friends, family, and community before placements arrive * Ways to respond to inappropriate or insensitive questions * Why saying no to a placement can sometimes be the most supportive choice * The importance of putting agreements with caseworkers in writing * How fostering impacts permanent children in the home * Why flexibility and reassessment are essential throughout the year RESOURCES MENTIONED: * First Time Fostering by Laura Available through major retailers via https://firsttimefostering.com [https://www.firsttimefostering.com/] * Follow Laura on Instagram at Foster.Parenting * Learn more about foster care in Utah at Utah Foster Care [https://www.utahfostercare.org] TRANSCRIPT Amy: Tune in to today’s episode we chat with Laura from Foster Parenting. Talking about her first book a must read for all foster parents. Welcome to Fostering Conversations. I’m your host, Amy Smith. Today we have Laura from Foster Parenting. That is what she’s known for on her Instagram, and she’s joining us again for the second podcast and we’re so excited to have her. Thanks for being here, Laura. Laura: Thanks so much for having me back. Amy: I’m excited because you are putting out a book. Yes, I’m excited and , all of the feelings.So I was privileged enough to get to read the book, so I’m excited to chat with you about it today. Tell us the name of the book and then tell us why you wrote this. Laura: So it’s called First Time Fostering. And I wrote it because a lot of people were asking for it. That was the start is everyone’s like, I binged all your videos, but I wish I could have this all written down. there’s so much in the comments, but like, how do I put it all together? And so I was like. you know, maybe I could do some blog posts, which I started doing. But then that became like another thing to look through and figure out and navigate. And I know that, new foster and kinship providers don’t have a lot of time. They’re in the weeds. And so I really wanted to get all of that. Rich information shared on my platform from the community all in one spot. And so that is the book. It’s everything compiled together into one place to support, new caregivers. Amy: I love that because the very first thing I think that you say in the book is this is a manual. You can read the whole thing through. You can just go by topic. And it is from the very beginning, it is so well organized that it’s truly like,okay, I need help with this specific topic. Okay, this page, bam. I love that. Laura: I really was just drawing from, what I’ve been doing online for, the last few years is people come to me for a very specific, like, oh, we haven’t been sleeping. what are we doing wrong? Or , what am I not thinking of? And so that was the thought process is okay, let’s just talk about maybe the pain point and go to that specific place of the book. I also, prefer books like that so I can find an answer quickly. Amy: The second I started reading, I was kinda laughing at myself because there’s so many books that people recommend to foster families and you’re like, cool, I have to read the 700 page book, and half of it is scientific language that I don’t know. your Book was not overwhelming, I loved. Laura: And I think there are so many books out there that support in different ways, right? It is important to understand child development, how trauma affects the brain, all of the different parenting methods and, therapeutic interventions. and so I did wanna create something that was different, I didn’t wanna replicate a lot of the great things already out there I wanted to add to it and create something different. Amy: I think you succeeded so beautifully. Laura: Thank you. I try to be practical and to the point. Amy: This is such an easily used book, people that are considering foster care, this is really what it looks like. I think what we’re gonna chat a little bit more today is these families that are licensed, maybe they’re waiting for their first placement, or maybe they have their first placement a few weeks in. How does this book help them now? Laura: And that is the goal, right? It’s the field guide. So here we are, we’re ready to go. we’re about to say yes, or we’ve just said yes. Now what? And my hope is that people will, take a bullet point here and there and feel confident as they navigate some of these brand new situations. And for me, I was a first time parent too. And so it was important for me to include. extra info for those of us who maybe don’t have that context and don’t understand, this whole other world of parenting that we’re just being introduced to for the first time. Amy: that’s so true. that was not how I came into foster parenting. I had parented for 12 plus years, and then brought in kids, and so I think. That’s a really good insight that you have into that because there are so many foster parents who have never parented before, and I wouldn’t have even considered that. So I love that you have that consideration and that perspective. Laura: Thank you. Amy: So let’s talk about when someone is like, I am in over my head. What am I doing? They grab your book. What should they do with that book? Laura: Okay. So if they’re already in a place where they’ve said yes, and they’re like in over their head, then I think going straight to part two, which is the middle of the book, the crux of the book, and that is all of the interventions and things you can do within your home, because that the end of the day, is what we can control. Amy: For sure. We’re not waiting on a therapist. We’re not waiting on this or that. Laura: Yeah, there’s so much of foster care and foster parenting that we have no control over, and it can be really frustrating and disheartening as well. And so I wanted to provide as much information as possible of things we can control. Which is our caregiving. It’s our day-to-day life with children in our home. And so what I would encourage someone to do if they’re feeling overwhelmed, is to go to part two. And, part two opens up some of the foundational parenting skills of foster parents where we talk about. I hate the word basics. I need a better word for that, but it’s the starting point of what we do. And that starts with, you know, points of connection, instilling trust and bonding with our kids and different ways to do that. And then, you could also go to a very specific place, maybe you’re struggling with finding foods that they will eat or they’re up a lot at night. You could go to that very specific chapter, to help you and brainstorm some fresh ideas if you’re stuck. Amy: tell us how you came up with all the different topics. Like you’re saying the, the section two has these tangible ways to help. How did you come up with those specific topics? Laura: I, spent many years listening to the community and there is definitely themes that come up and, in my previous career life I was in, consumer market research. I was a moderator and focus groups and qualitative research. And pulling insights from community members is something that I have naturally done professionally. And so it was very interesting to me to see. What was coming up over and over and over again. And I would even ask what’s the basic skill that you’re doing in your house every single day? And I would hear from thousands of people. And so it was really just narrowing down like this is the key things that people are talking about. And obviously grounded in my personal experiences too, things that I’m doing on a day-to-day basis. I would hear about all the different parts of the day, this is troubling. Or this kid’s experience neglect and it’s impacting. every part of the day with different nuances, and so I tried to break it through to just be as practical as possible to meet you in those moments. Like here we are at the dinner table, I’ve met you there. Here’s some things you can think about. Amy: I love in your book, and this is I think the majority of your Instagram as well, are these script or these narratives or these role playing essentially, where you show what the kid might be doing and then you show what the caregiver, how they would respond. And I think those are really invaluable because you can tell someone, Hey, this is what it could look like. But when actually read or hear or see. See on your Instagram, someone role playing. It just clicks a little more and gives you a little more confidence to engage in that. Laura: Yeah, I was a little worried if that would translate to the page because I think, to your point, seeing and hearing it, and so I really wanted to be as straightforward and direct as possible. And so I have listed a lot of scripting, starting points for caregivers. Just, if you’re entering this conversation for the very first time, here’s something you could maybe say, adapt it to your tone, the kid, the personality, all of that. I felt like that’s what caregivers needed and that’s what I needed. If I’m just being honest, Amy: Yeah, Laura: no, I, sometimes I do, but I still to this day will practice what I’m gonna say if I know this is gonna be tricky, or if something did not go as planned, like we had an issue, there was like an escalation and I didn’t respond in a way that was supportive to the kid. I sometimes will think about, okay, what could I say differently next time and practice that so that when that moment comes. I have it ready to go. And so I wanted to offer that to everyone, that read my book and I do offer it online as well, of something just to start with or just to try differently next time. it might be more supportive because, all of these hundreds of people have said this is really what was the thing that helped them in that moment. Amy: I know for me personally, I had an experience, not even foster care related, but a few months ago it was like, I got put in this really. Difficult situation and I just froze and I didn’t know what to do and I had to reach out to my friends and say, this is what just happened. What should I do? And they told me. And then the next day I was like. I knew that answer, but I couldn’t do it in moment ’cause I was so overwhelmed at the time. And that’s exactly what your book can offer is sure, I know how to handle kids at bedtime, but for some reason I can’t remember right now and I just need to go read an example of what I should say and Laura: Yeah. Or even just to confirm you’re on the right path too. Like , things take time, especially for kids who are new to our home. but even if they’re not, like things change, things happen and we have to show up again and again and again, and it takes a lot of time. To build trust, and then obviously,if things change in the case or something happens with their parents or at school or friends or whatever, that changes a lot of the interventions you do. But I hear you and I feel the same way sometimes. I’m like, I’m overwhelmed. I don’t know, like what I should be doing. And sometimes you just need a little brainstorm session and that’s that’s what it is. My book is just. Bullet point list if I’m being direct, like it’s just a list of okay, here’s the brainstorm. What resonates, what could work? What haven’t you tried? maybe this nuance could unlock something different. Amy: I made a list of like my favorite of your book, or maybe what I hadn’t thought about. I fostered for four years, and some of the things I was like, oh my gosh, that’s such a good idea. So if you’re okay with would love to just just to give people a taste of what is in there, so one of the first ones is, I loved this. I did not do this at all. Never even thought about it. And such a good idea. so that is that you give a sample email to family and friends, Hey, we’re going to be fostering. Hey, you might see new kids with us. Hey, don’t ask these dumb questions. you say it much kinder, but that’s how I would say it. I never did that. I never forewarned people Laura: yeah. we can’t,expect everyone to know if we don’t know what to do or say, Certainly our friends and family may also not know, and honestly, it comes from some trial and error. I know for me. I did send an email out, but I didn’t always address everything specifically, and then things came up and like after I was like, oh, we should probably talk about that later when the kids aren’t around. I think a lot of people are facing these like friction points with friends and family, all from a place of goodness and care and wanting to just engage in the process, which is. Great. I’d never wanna shut people out, sure there’s privacy, but we can’t foster alone. We have to let our friends and family in and make them a part of the experience in order for this to be sustainable. And so I’m glad that part stood out to you. I hope that helps other people kind of get things rolling. Amy: Yeah, because I remember the very first week, our very first placement, she was a teenager. I took her to a youth group that I ran, did not warn any of these youth that I was bringing a new teen with me that lived with me.And one of the other youth was like, wait, why does she live with you? Laura: I was like, um, you know, just and I said something stupid who wouldn’t wanna live with me? I like that. Humor’s a big, we’re like deflecting or just like sidestepping. That is a part of what we Amy: But how much better would it have been if I educated that youth group, like what our family dynamic may look like in future, and gave them that opportunity to learn before I brought kids Laura: Yeah,can also, take it and, depending on the age of the youth is align on the story with them too. So they know what they’re walking into. Like who do they think I am? what do they think of this situation? Or what’s the story that I want out there? And I think that can be a really great place to start because of course our kids are with us and in community with us, and we want that. And I think getting everyone aligned is a really important part. Amy: Yeah, it is. So I loved that. I loved that aspect that you shared. some of the other things that I loved,going along with that, you share actual ways to respond to inappropriate questions, which I loved. Because like me, once again, I’m gonna just say something’s stupid, but Laura: which is But it’s helpful for people like me that either don’t know or didn’t think of it and just oh, that is such a great response. So simple. But I didn’t think of that. So those types of responses definitely are crowdsourced and, community members along the way have shared like, oh, this is how I usually say it. And I’m like, oh, that is much better than what I said, put it in the list. And I think that, in all of that sharing of experiences, we can really, refine what we’re doing, what we’re saying, and how we’re communicating things. because I definitely have also not responded, or I’ll just freeze, to what you said earlier. Amy: Sometimes you’re just really caught off guard, like, why would you even ask that? Laura: Oh, I didn’t think of that even being a comment or question, and I, I’m not sure. Amy: Yeah. And it’s also refreshing to know all people are asking dumb questions. Like you say, people are for the most part, good intention, but all foster parents and kids in foster care are getting some dumb questions or inappropriate questions, Laura: inappropriate and insensitive or just, people have a lack of awareness and knowledge and, that’s, aside from kind of the work with this book and everything, I do have a broader community that comes to my page just to learn about what is foster care. And there’s a lot of just preconceived notions and just like myths and things that, that people don’t understand. there’s a lot to learn. A, everyone is learning. We’re still Amy: Exactly, and even foster parents are like, oh, wow, had no idea that’s what this entailed or that’s what I was gonna be doing. I love that. some of the other things I loved that you don’t only just. Have this amazing book, but you also share great apps and other books and resources, and a lot of them I hadn’t heard of. There’s a lot of the traditional ones that I think many foster parents are rolled out, and it’s, ingrained for us to read and participate with. But you had a lot of good ones that I hadn’t even heard of yet, and Laura: Oh, thank you. Yeah, I try to include like resources, shopping lists, checklists, things to, that I’ve collected along the way too, because how can one person know everything? I think. That’s what makes foster care so tough. And I’ve even had, workers reach out and be like, what was that thing that you sent me the other day? it’s hard to keep track of all of those resources and details, so I’m glad there were some new ones on the list. I’m constantly finding new things too. Amy: It just gives people what they need. They can look at the resources and say, yeah, this one helps me, or No, this one But it gives them, instead of them having to do a lot of it gives those tools, which everyone needs, but especially foster parents need. Laura: I find that, Google searching or asking like an AI chat bot, the information is not great. And, I think the best source of information is obviously professionals and the team, but other individuals going through it because like I said, you can’t know everything. It is impossible there’s so much out there to help knowing is half the battle. That’s part of the problem with the system is, it’s hard to understand it all. Amy: It is really hard and it’s hard to know what to do before things come up or during things come up or after. Like it is, information can be overwhelming and it also can be lacking. You can also be so uninformed sometimes that you don’t know of different options Laura: I didn’t know to even ask that question. I didn’t know what I didn’t know. It’s Amy: right, Exactly. okay, this one I really loved you have a whole section on saying, no this isn’t the right placement, or this isn’t working, or I can take this kid for seven days, or whatever it is. I think that is so important because I don’t feel like it’s actually super acceptable in foster care world and it should be, Laura: and to be honest, I’ve gotten a lot of pushback just from the broader communities on, some videos where I share about this because, people think while you signed up to Foster, you should be saying yes in every case. this is the job, right? And it absolutely is the job. But I think we have to be super mindful about who we are saying yes to. And what makes sense for our home, our family this time right now. Because, if we said yes to a kid and we can’t end up, providing the best support for them, or something comes up, Then we’ve now caused another, traumatic event for them. If they have to move homes and it, it can get really. Bad for the kids if they’re just moving around in a lot. So I think saying no is part of it, and knowing your boundaries knowing what your parameters are. You of course have to be flexible because there will always be surprises and changes and things you weren’t aware of. Flexibility is definitely part of it, saying no is part of it too. Amy: It really is. And that was something that I feel like I had to learn the hard way. And so I love that you just have a whole section about that of it’s okay. And also I think you even say put it in writing. like whether that’s, Laura: a hundred times in the book. Amy: I love that though, because it’s so true. First of all, these caseworkers have 5 million cases, so they’re not gonna remember. Second of all, then you both can remember Laura: Mm-hmm. what was agreed to. that’s like the kind of like a basic skill and advocacy, right? Get everything in writing and it’s just the first step. So yes, if you can step in for a weekend, a short amount of time, if you’re doing emergency care for the short term, that is definitely needed. So kids are not sitting in offices or going to hotels. but yes, having it in writing is a good place to start that relationship and start that advocacy. once again, that’s a simple thing, but like, oh, I told the caseworker at so really they’re gonna remember no, they’re not. But we think they are, I think a lot of people, enter the foster care world for the first time and think it operates like, other businesses. Yeah. Their own job. And I have heard from a lot of community members, I would be fired if I did this or said this or missed this. And it’s I understand. but it operates differently. And also there’s a lot of behind the scenes nuance that foster parents are not aware of, not allowed to be aware of. And, There’s that too, so we can look at a situation and think we get it and we know why we haven’t heard from that worker. It’s because they’re too busy when Speaker: Right? Laura: reality, something else might be happening. every Amy: that’s a good perspective. maybe this will be the final thing that I, one of my favorite things, but, I love that you talk about permanent kids in the home. I love that not only does your book focus on, these relationships with the kids, the kids that are in foster care, but you talk about permanent kids, whether they’re biological, adopted, whatever, but they are permanently in your home. Share a little bit about like why that’s so important and how that made it into your book. Laura: I think it’s one of the top questions or concerns or worries that I hear from a lot of community members is how will this impact the children already in my home? my bio kids, like kids who are here through adoption in other ways, and, It’s not talked about in the training, it’s usually not a consideration. there’s so much to cover in pre-service training, And I think a lot of workers assume this is your family and your children and you manage that and every foster home will handle that differently. But that leaves a lot of areas of question, worry, concern for foster families or people who are interested in fostering and, I tried to, incorporate them throughout. Obviously they’re not the focus of the book, but I felt it was important to include some considerations because they’re along for this as well. It’s life changing for. All kids in the home, when kids move in and when they move out, when things change with the case that impacts all of the children, not just, the kid whose parent maybe missed a visit that is a full family, dynamic shift maybe for the evening. So it’s something to think about. It’s a starting point to think about, because every family has its own dynamics, of course. but I’m glad you noticed that. I wanted to make sure that all those points of view were considered. Amy: I just think it’s important because I did have permanent kids in my home started the process and when we ended the process. And at the beginning it’s like this new and exciting thing. Like, oh, we’re gonna have extra kids in our home, and it sounds so fun. And then you have ’em and you’re like. Oh my gosh. This is a little more intense than we maybe thought, Laura: could you share something that was maybe surprising or something that was like, oh, I didn’t think of this. Amy: Yeah, so we had, a ton kids come through our home because I did take crisis calls, so we had a lot of kids come in the middle of the night and they would be gone by the next morning or three days later, and then a few that stayed a long time, and a few that. Stayed forever. but there was one particular teenager who came, she was like almost the exact same age as one of my daughters, and my daughter was having a literal meltdown when I got the call, they, were pre at the time. She having a meltdown about some stupid whatever. And I would always ask my big kids, are we willing to take this and so they’re like, oh yeah. Immediately she goes from meltdown to just I’m so excited. This is gonna the best thing ever to have a new sister that’s the same age. And the first week they were best friends. They everything together and I was like, this is great. This was not our first placement, but I such a great fit. All of the sudden my daughter’s I don’t like this girl. she is, yep. She’s sharing my room, she’s taking my stuff, she’s getting more attention. She’s getting to go shopping for all these clothes. ’cause she came with nothing. It just all of a sudden Not good. and she stayed with us until she reunified. we found some different boundaries. We split up their rooms. We ways that it worked and we ended on a good note. And it’s just sometimes it’s a lot for our kids. They go from really excited to have this new friend in their house to all of a sudden, oh, this friend’s not leaving. is getting more privileges than me. and you have to find that boundary where you’re still honoring that kid. That’s a bonus kid in your house, but also still the permanent kid that is there forever, Laura: Absolutely, you touch on a lot of things that I echo in the book as well, and just like allowing kids to change their mind and then revisiting all of those house rules or boundaries or set up, separating, creating spaces, all of those things are things to think about and consider as you, move through each phase. those first. Few days, few weeks are really a unique time. I think, very rarely does a kid move in and it’s just like that forever. There’s that getting to know you phase for everyone in the home and then you settle into daily life. Amy: Yeah. The honeymoon phase is real. Laura: Yeah,it is ever changing. I think definitely there’s a getting to know you. , And then, as trauma, reminders, big days happen each holiday season, all of those things throughout the whole year, each season brings its own change into a foster home. And,something that’s working really well for right now that lasted all winter. Now it’s spring, now it’s summer. Things feel different and there’s a lot of reasons and there’s a lot of accommodations and support needs from foster families. Amy: That is the perfect intro to why your book is so needed. I really do think your book is just so well done and so needed. ’cause I haven’t found another resource like that, Laura: thank you. I appreciate you noticing that. ’cause I definitely took some leaps and did some things a little bit differently so that it could feel lot different and stand out from some of the other guidebooks out there. So thank Amy: So tell listeners where and when they can buy it or what the different platforms are that they can get it on. Laura: Okay, so it’s available on all major retailers online, so you can go to first time fostering.com and that will kinda link to all the major, bookshop, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, target, Walmart, all of those. So it’s pre-order until May 12th and then it comes out for foster care awareness month. And then, it will be available everywhere. You can also ask your library if they’ll carry it or talk to your agency worker and see if they could add it to their lending library. I. Amy: And you told us before we were recording that you were doing an audio of it as well. Laura: Yes, There will be an audio narrated by me, that will be out at the same time. And so if you prefer to listen, I wanted to make this information as accessible as possible to anyone that needs it and wants it. Amy: Awesome. I love that. it is such a needed resource. I am honored that I got to read it early. So thank you. And thank you for joining us today. So if you want to learn more from Laura, you can go to Foster dot parenting on Instagram or first time fostering.com. Laura: You got it. I really appreciate it. Thank you for taking the time to chat with me and for doing a pre-read of the book. Amy: I truly enjoyed it so much. So thank you. Laura: Right. Thanks so much for having me. If you wanna learn more about foster care, head over to www.utahfostercare.org.

Ep 70: Still Standing

In this powerful episode of Fostering Conversations, host Amy Smith sits down with former foster youth Carlos Rios Redd to talk about lived experience in foster care, sibling separation, adoption disruption, resilience, and hope. Carlos entered foster care as a baby, lived in more than ten homes, and experienced three adoptions. Despite repeated trauma and instability, Carlos shares how relationships, faith, and supportive families helped shape the life he leads today. Now married and working as a K9 handler with the Utah Highway Patrol, Carlos reflects on how growing up in foster care influenced his compassion, maturity, and commitment to service. His story offers meaningful insight for foster parents, youth currently in care, and professionals who work within the child welfare system. IN THIS EPISODE, WE DISCUSS: * What it is like to grow up in foster care and experience multiple adoptions * The impact of sibling separation and staying connected * Reconnecting with biological siblings after years apart * Being a permanent child in a fostering household * Resilience, healing, and allowing yourself to be loved * Advice for youth currently in foster care * Why maintaining relationships matters long after placements end Carlos speaks honestly about trauma without bitterness and shares why he believes connection is one of the most powerful tools for healing. RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: * Learn more about foster care in Utah: Utah Foster Care [https://www.utahfostercare.org] If you are a foster parent, considering fostering, or supporting youth in care, this episode offers perspective that is both grounding and hopeful. Transcript; I reformatted the transcript so the sentences flow correctly, broken lines are fixed, speakers start on new lines, and long sections are split into readable paragraphs for WordPress. I did not intentionally change wording—only line breaks and paragraph structure. Speaker: Join us for one of the most important aspects of foster care, former foster youth. Today we talk with Carlos who has gone through multiple homes and multiple adoption, and now he’s thriving. Amy: Welcome to Fostering Conversations. I’m your host, Amy Smith. Today we have a former foster youth, Carlos Rios-Redd. Thanks for being with us today, Carlos. Carlos: thank you for the invitation. Glad to be here. Amy: Yeah, we’re so excited to chat with you. I think this is one of the most important sides of foster care to discuss is the lived experience. So would you just introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your story? Carlos: My name’s Carlos Rios-Redd shred. I grew up in foster care through the system about at a year old, and then lived through, 10 homes within 10 years and been adopted three different times. And, I guess left the system through adoption at the age of 14, but really never left because we always had kids coming into our home as well. So I was able to see both sides of the spectrum on, on the foster care system. Amy: Yeah. So you’ve been, had the lived experience and also had then youth come into your home as the permanent sibling, so that’s awesome. So tell us a little bit about, I think it’s very unusual and honestly unfortunate that you were adopted three different times. Are you able to tell us a little bit about that? Carlos: Sure. Yeah. So the first adoption was coming from California to Utah to Blanding where our family brought us over. And we were with them for about two years and there was a lot of abuse that happened within the home. And one day they decided that they didn’t want us anymore, my brother and I, and left us at the DCFS office. Our caseworker came in and said, Hey, we gotta find you a home by the end of the day for you guys to move into. We’re gonna go gather your things because these parents don’t want you at the home anymore. So we’re gonna try to figure things out. Amy: adopted at that Yeah. Carlos: Legally adopted. It was about two years with the so we made it from. it was about 2005 when we moved over to Blanding here in Utah. Amy: And then Okay. Carlos: it was Amy: 2007. So then what did that look like? Do you remember being at that? Do, you were young, but do you remember being at that office or do you Carlos: remember I do. Yeah. So specifically that day, the office, they have a like a child’s room where they have the TV and the toys or whatever, and our caseworker just said, Hey, go in here, we’re gonna talk with your parents. And in my head, it was one of just general meetings that they have after adoption just to make sure things are going good. And then the next thing you know, we get told we are moving to a different house. Amy: Holy. Carlos: cow. Amy: then you guys go to another foster home? Carlos: Yep. We go through another foster home and then another foster home. And then we landed in a place where we were there for about two and a half years. And that was probably the first time ever felt that a family loved my brother and I. And we got really close with them. And then unfortunately, the judge said, you’re taking too much time with these kids and we’re gonna remove them and put ’em in a different home. Amy: Oh my goodness. Okay. So that one wasn’t the foster family’s Carlos: No, that was the judge’s decision. Amy: Wow, Carlos: Yeah, and to my understanding is that it was just because the parents wanted to do a guardianship instead of a full adoption and the judge didn’t like that idea and so they removed us from the home. Amy: Oh my goodness. Okay, so then you’ve reentered foster care again. Carlos: So then we moved to a different home, which brought us up to Brigham City from the south east corner. So totally opposite ends of the state. Amy: Yeah. Carlos: Yes. We were only there for six months and then things weren’t going well there. Amy: They did? Carlos: No, it was very quick on how they did it and came and picked us up and brought us back down to Blanding after the six months. Amy: Holy cow. And is that where your permanent home? Carlos: No, that, No. Amy: oh my gosh. Carlos: And so then there was another home after that, which was with a previous family that we, or he had been with. Amy: Okay. Carlos: So we were familiar with them. And then came our second adoptive family. Which I, at the time was really good friends with one of their kids. Amy: Okay. Carlos: Okay. and they’re good people. So this isn’t anything to say they’re bad ’cause they’re not. Almost everyone that I’ve ever lived with, I am on very good terms with. Amy: That’s amazing. Carlos: So we went to their home and we’re with them. how old was I? I was probably about, I think I was 10. And we were with them for maybe a year to a year and a half, somewhere around there. And then they had the idea to reconnect us with our family in California. Amy: Okay. Carlos: And so we went down there for Christmas, I don’t recall the year, but for Christmas, and spent Christmas with them and was able to see my sister and my mom, and reconnect that way. And then they said, we would like for you guys to spend the rest of the school year there and we’ll come back in May, June, whenever the school year ends and bring you back home. Just so that way we could just have that relationship with your biological family. Amy: Yeah. Carlos: And then things would’ve fallen out with that, with kind of some financial support or just in general just talking with them. Amy: Yeah. Carlos: And it’s sparked kind of an investigation or a curiosity with my brother and he got into my sister’s phone and saw messages that patients have seen. Yeah, that caused a lot of legal trouble for that family. Amy: For the adoptive family? Carlos: Yes. For the adoptive family. And they were getting charged with child neglect and child abandonment, because there was really no intention for them to come back and get us. Amy: Sure. Carlos: Which again, I haven’t been able to see the fully disclosed like the documents of the court which I’ve been trying to get, but the GRAMA request isn’t. Amy: I’m sure. Carlos: They’re being hard with that. But just speaking with several people was I don’t think their intentions were bad. I think the intentions was like, let’s get these kids back with their family if they’d like. But with the charges going on and them potentially facing jail time, my now family said these are good people. Don’t charge them. We’ll take the kids. Drop the charges. And that’s what they did. They dropped the charges and everything with that adoptive family and my brother, they came and picked us up June 4th of 2012, 6 in the morning. I remember I was staying with my sister. Six in the morning they picked us up and we drove all the way back in a day to Blanding and moved in with the Reds now, my adoptive family. And then after a little bit my brother returned to a previous family that we had lived with and was adopted by them. And so his last name is Black and my last name is Redd. Amy: That worked out. Carlos: it’s funny. I like to tell that. So a lot of stuff happened within all those families that we lived in. And again, like I said, I don’t have no hard feelings against any of the families that I’ve ever lived with. Amy: Yeah. Carlos: Which is really incredible because you really shouldn’t have been bounced around that much. Amy: Yeah. But unfortunately it is your life experience. Carlos: Yeah. I mean honestly, looking back, I would not give it up because I think it’s made me to who I am today. Amy: That’s amazing. That is an incredible perspective. So tell us a little bit about what it was like being with your biological family. How did that, like how was reconnecting with them initially when you were 10 or so years old? Carlos: It was weird to start off with. Amy: Because really they’re strangers, right? Carlos: Yeah. The last time I saw them was when I was five. I’m the baby of seven. Out of biological siblings I have half siblings and a couple full siblings. And I never really got reconnected with the two older siblings very much. I don’t, and I still don’t really know them very well. But the others I’m very close with and I never really look at the ones that have a different parent than I as half. They’re all like, these are full siblings because I know I’ve known them now and been able to reconnect with them so well that I don’t see it that way. My sister, it was a little bit awkward at first. Trying to figure out like, I know you’re my sister, but I don’t really know you. After a little bit within that six months we were able to get to a point where it’s like, yeah this is really good. Even with her boyfriend, now husband, I’ve known him since almost just as long as I’ve known her now. So it’s really good. We function as a good family I think and we try to see each other when we can and talk on almost a daily basis. Amy: So were all of the biological siblings removed, or just you and your brother? Carlos: So all of us were. Amy: Okay. Carlos: Except for the older two. Amy: Okay. Carlos: Some of them came to Utah and some did not. Amy: Okay. Carlos: Yeah. So my brother and I came to Utah. The other siblings were either put into a group home because they were older. Amy: Okay. Carlos: My two older sisters were put into group homes. And then the one home in California that we stayed in, that was the sister that I was just talking about and my brother. Then when my brother and I were adopted they only took me and him to Utah. They tried to bring the other siblings over to see if that would work, but it didn’t end up working. Amy: Yeah. What I’m really amazed by is that you guys have all reconnected. That’s a big family and to reconnect is really impressive. So who would you credit that to? Is it you guys now as adults? Is it these adoptive families? Like how did you guys reconnect? Carlos: I think the second adoptive family that sent us back probably gets some of that credit. Because without them doing what they did, it may not have ever happened until later on. And you never know how reactions would’ve been later on if it was a different family that would’ve reconnected us. And it’s funny, speaking of reconnection, this last Thanksgiving was the first time in over 20 years that all of us—except for the older two—had been together under the same roof. Amy: That is wild. Carlos: And so Thanksgiving was the first time. Amy: And how was it? Carlos: It was great. Everyone was smiling, having a good time. You could just feel the love in the air. It was great. Amy: Yeah. And is everybody healthy and functioning and thriving? Carlos: For the most part, yeah. I think some obviously struggle more than others, but for the most part everyone seems to be doing really good. Amy: That is so incredible to me. I have adopted kids and I know my kids have half siblings. We’ve never had that opportunity to meet those kids or have that relationship. I think that is really unusual and quite a gift that you’ve been able to have that. Carlos: Yeah, it’s awesome. I talk to almost all of them all the time. My brother Gio actually lives in Provo, so he lives about 10 minutes from me. Amy: That is so cool. So you and your brother were originally together for almost all of those moves? Carlos: Yeah, pretty much everything. Amy: And then the final move got split. Carlos: Yeah. Amy: What was that experience like for you? Carlos: Although we were in the same town, I remember the court day pretty good. It felt like my heart was torn out of my chest. Amy: Yeah. Carlos: I was sitting in the back row of the courtroom, bawling my eyes out because it felt like I just lost my brother forever. I think it was just a 13- or 14-year-old kid being dramatic, but it was pretty hard. Fortunately we were in the same town. I could drive to his house and it would take me 10 minutes. The families did things together throughout the week or months. Then eventually he moved and I moved, and now here we are again living about 10 minutes apart. My wife gets mad sometimes because I want to do things with my brother more than sometimes with her. Amy: That’s amazing. Carlos: I love it. He’s one of my best friends because he’s experienced that with me. He was a protector. Amy: What would you tell people—maybe kids that are in foster care or families that are fostering—if siblings have to be split up? Carlos: That’s a hard question. I don’t know if I necessarily have advice, but I would tell them it’s going to be okay. As long as they do their part to keep in contact and show that they want to still be part of each other’s lives, it’s going to be okay. If they get removed I don’t think they need to cut off all communication. The advice would be to continue the relationship. Amy: I love that. I think that is a huge part of foster care. Your story is a really good example of why it’s so important. You have a huge network of biological, adoptive, and family connections because people kept the relationships open for you. Okay, so tell us a little bit about what you’re doing now as an adult. You’re married—what does your life look like now? Carlos: I currently work for Highway Patrol as a canine handler. The dog that I have is a Belgian Malinois, four years old, and he helps with detection of narcotics and hopefully at some point for apprehension if needed. I’ve been doing that for almost four years and it’s been a blast. I’ve definitely experienced some things that even a 20-year veteran hasn’t experienced. I had an accident when I was about a year and a half on the job where I took a car head-on going the wrong way. After I came back to work I got into the canine program. I’ve always been interested in interdiction and narcotics investigations. By God’s grace I was able to get into it. I’ve been recognized by the NAACP, by Governor Cox, received a Purple Heart for that accident, and also a Medal of Honor recipient from Orem Fire—the first time it was given to someone outside of their organization. Amy: Wow. Do you feel like your life experiences growing up influenced your decision to go into this line of work? Carlos: A hundred percent. I couldn’t pinpoint exactly what it is, but I believe the way I grew up influenced what I do now. It gives me a better perspective on how to do the job and be more compassionate when needed. But also knowing when there needs to be a boundary. Growing up in foster care and the experiences I had made me grow up fast. Amy: For sure. Carlos: I’ve been told a lot that I have the maturity of someone older than 25. I don’t always feel that way, but maybe it’s true. Amy: You’ve experienced so much. How do you think you are so resilient? You have experienced things that most people haven’t and things that no one should experience. Carlos: I have a couple reasons. The first one is probably my relationship with God. I’m not saying everyone has to believe in God, but I believe something guides people. For me it’s my relationship with God and knowing He guided my life to where I needed to be at certain times. The second reason would be my family—my mom and my dad. They’re good examples of resilient people who have gone through a lot. Amy: That’s amazing. Tell us what it was like being a permanent sibling while your family continued to foster kids. Carlos: Sometimes there was jealousy because when you’re the foster kid you get a lot of attention. Then suddenly there are other kids in the house and your parents are focusing on them. But it also helped me understand the struggles those kids were going through. I could connect with them easier than someone who had never experienced foster care. Sometimes I even sided with the foster kids because I understood exactly what they were going through. Amy: That’s a really interesting perspective. Carlos: There was a specific instance where one of the foster kids got into a physical altercation with one of my brothers and I stepped in and defended the kid in care. But everything smoothed out and we’re all good. Amy: What was it like when kids would reunify with their families? Carlos: I was happy for them. I already had a relationship with my family, so I wanted them to have that too. I wished them well. Amy: Have you kept in touch with any of them? Carlos: Yes and no. My parents have more than I have. Amy: What would you tell youth that are currently in foster care? Carlos: A mantra I keep for myself is that through pain and suffering there is light at the end of the tunnel. What you’re going through now can shape you into a better person if you face it head on. One day you’ll be able to help someone else. It can make you more understanding, empathetic, and less judgmental. Just keep going. There will be better days ahead. Amy: Did therapy help you? Carlos: I hated therapy. I refused to go. I felt like many therapists were just there to be there. What helped me most was allowing myself to feel the love of the parents and siblings around me. Sometimes kids don’t get that luxury, but there’s usually someone in the family you can connect with. I would encourage kids to find that connection. For example, one family we lived with for two and a half years still considers us family. When the mom passed away we were put on her headstone as one of her kids. Amy: Wow. Carlos: We still go to family functions with them. So I would encourage kids to find one or two people they can build a real connection with. A lot of healing can come from that. Amy: I love that. Kids do have to allow themselves to be loved, which is really hard when you’ve been hurt so many times. Carlos: Yeah, I still struggle with that. Amy: Thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your story. I know our listeners will really appreciate it. Carlos: Of course. Feel free to give my information to anyone. I’m always willing to talk or try to help someone out. Amy: That’s amazing. Thank you so much, Carlos. If you want to learn more about foster care, head over to www.utahfostercare.org [http://www.utahfostercare.org].

Ep 69: Reunification

In Episode 69, Amy Smith sits down with longtime foster and adoptive mom Crystal Dukes for a heartfelt conversation about the real purpose of foster care: reunification. Crystal shares her family’s journey fostering more than 30 children, adopting through both private adoption and foster care, and developing deep, lasting relationships with biological families. This episode offers a candid, uplifting look at what it truly means to support reunification even when it’s challenging, emotional, and full of unknowns. What We Discuss • Why reunification is the primary goal of foster care • Crystal’s early experiences as a new foster parent and the mindset shift she had to make • The story of two young brothers placed in her home and how their mother’s gratitude changed everything • Navigating a Safe Haven baby placement and ultimately adopting her youngest son • Maintaining meaningful relationships with biological families long after reunification • The emotional complexity of children moving between homes • How foster families can cheerlead, support, and build trust with parents • A multi‑year case that transformed into a true village of caregivers • Advice for new or prospective foster parents • Why openness, compassion, and connection benefit everyone involved Key Takeaways • Foster care works best when caregivers approach it as a team effort with biological families. • Kids thrive when they can remain connected to parents, grandparents, and others who love them. • Reunification can be challenging but often leads to beautiful, long‑term relationships. • Supporting parents and honoring their role makes the experience healthier for children. • The more people loving a child, the better. Resources Mentioned Learn more about foster care in Utah at: https://www.utahfostercare.org About Our Guest Crystal Dukes is a former foster parent, adoptive mom, and advocate for reunification. Over seven years she and her husband cared for approximately 30 children, building ongoing relationships with many of the families they supported. Her compassionate, connection‑driven approach provides valuable insight for anyone exploring foster care. Listen & Subscribe New episodes of Fostering Conversations are released regularly. Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss a conversation that matters. TRANSCRIPT: Speaker: On today’s episode, we’ll be talking to a former foster adoptive mom about reunification. The entire goal of foster care is to reunify the kids in our home join us. Amy: Welcome to Fostering Conversations. I’m your host, Amy Smith. Today we have Crystal Dukes, who is a foster and adoptive mom, and we are so glad to chat with her today. Thanks for being here, Crystal. Crystal: Thank you so much for having me. Amy: So we wanna just start off by letting our audience know who you are. So tell us a little bit about yourself. my name’s Crystal Jewkes like Amy said, and,My husband and I have been married for 27 years, and we have four kids of our own. We’ve had about 30 kids in and out of our homes, many of which we’re still, in contact with in one way or another. and it’s been a while. we were foster parents for seven years. our older kids actually are adopted and that’s what put got us, interested in foster care is to it, to go that route. Okay. Yeah. So you guys had adopted domestically or internationally? Privately, essentially. And then did foster care Crystal: an agency here. Yep. Amy: Okay. Okay, cool. So you’ve experienced both situations of adoption. That’s awesome. That’s really neat. So today’s podcast, we wanna focus on reunification. So we’ll start with that. The goal of foster care is to reunify these kids, right? We want them to go home, but what has your experience been while working towards reunification with the kids that have come through your home? Crystal: I actually absolutely love this topic because, we have to go into it that way, or it’s, makes it so much harder. And for everyone. And that is the number one most important thing, whether you’re open to adopting or just fostering, that is absolutely so important to understand. especially anyone who’s listening who is just interested in foster care, that’s the biggest thing. but to be honest, we got into it to adopt Amy: Yeah, which a lot of families do. Crystal: To be honest,we were newbies. We didn’t really know what we were. Doing, and we wanted more kids and wanted to adopt more kids. And we thought that, foster care would be a good way to do that. And so we were quickly told, that’s not what this is for. and Amy: Right. I said, okay. I said, okay, we’ll see. Yeah. Crystal: and we got a call fairly quickly about a week after, and, And asked if we would take two little boys, and they were ages three and four and barely three. He had just barely turned three. And so really it was, they were quite young. And they came and dropped him off at our house with a can of seven up in their hands with nothing else. And, but they were fine. They were. Came in and we went to a baseball game of my son’s that night, and I just getting to know ’em and feeding them and, it seemed like a play date for them, I think at Amy: Yeah. Crystal: and then we started really figuring things out and, That was a really, it was a tough time because they were adorable little boys, but they were really hard little boys. However, that first week, When we were gonna have a quick meeting with the, their mom and she was gonna have a visit. I took them to the store and I said, okay, pick your mom’s favorite drink and then pick your mom’s favorite candy bar. And so they picked something pink andI’m like, they told me it was your favorite. And Amy: Yeah, exactly. Crystal: But the moment, I was a little nervous. I didn’t know what I was gonna see on the other side of the door, and we walked in and she immediately got up and gave me a hug and said, thank you so much for taking care of my babies. and we, so we had brought her little gifts and I had brought her all the pictures I had taken and I had, had ’em, made them a little book for her so that she had some pictures of what we did that week, whether it was going to get an ice cream cone at McDonald’s or playing in the backyard or whatever. And just so she could see that they were being taken care of. Amy: And she, to this day, 13, 14 years later, she still tells that story and she te still tells me how grateful she was. and it really did break the ice for us. Crystal: made me instantly love her Amy: Yeah. Crystal: and it made me instantly Amy: And humanize her that these really are her kids. Crystal: they’re her, kids. Yes. And humanize her and be a cheerleader for her. So from then on we were. We actually grew quite close the whole time. with good boundaries, we were all safe. She did have a pretty good support system, with her family. But it had gotten to the point where we can’t save you anymore. You’ve gotta, hurt a little bit so your kids are going to foster care. Amy: Yeah. Crystal: and so we had them for nine months. And during that nine month or six, in six months into the nine months, we got another call. And this one was for, a Safe Haven baby that it was the first in 25 years Amy: Yeah. That’s very Crystal: in the county. And so everyone was standing around going, we don’t know what to do. Amy: Right? Crystal: And so they knew I was after that and our caseworker called and said, there’s a baby that’s been dropped off. And Amy: Wow. Crystal: so we, it was the day after Christmas actually, Amy: Oh wow. Crystal: and we went and we picked him up and he was totally healthy and. Great. and we adopted him. So he stayed with us and we don’t really know anything about his parentage or anything, but, we’ve done the DNA stuff and nothing yet, but we’ll Amy: yeah. Wow, that’s interesting. Crystal: So these cute little boys that we had, they, they still view him as their little brother because he Amy: I love that. Yes, Crystal: they were there. So it was cute. Amy: adorable. Crystal: It was really cute when they were there, but, I was so grateful for that experience because we were in it to foster, to adopt and be done. And after the fact, it was a wonderful reunion. the day they were, in fact, actually. I think this week is their anniversary of going home and after nine months they were, they went home in March and that court day was really special and she was so grateful. Amy: By the end she was having Sunday dinner with us I love that. Crystal: and and to this day we still have girls’ nights and her sisters and her and me, we go out and have dinner. Amy: That’s so awesome. Crystal: We see the boys every once in a while, but they’re, they, one of them just graduated. The other one is getting ready to graduate from high school. And so it’s, it was a really hard and great experience and I learned so much from her and what, my part really was in being a foster parent. And so after it was all over and we were like. we’re not ready to be done because we still love you and you still love us, so we’re gonna, Amy: Keep going. Crystal: have some, at least some communication and contact. But after my husband and I were talking and we were like, are we done? And after and after we adopted the baby, my youngest, we thought maybe we’d be done. And we’re like, it was such an amazing. Miraculous experience to be a part of putting another family, supporting and helping put another family back together that we decided to stay. we kept going and we did a lot of crisis and respite from then on. But,it’s so weird how this timing has happened because. Just the other night. we had a set of twins that were, a few months older than my youngest and they came to us when they were two. So I had like triplets, Amy: Yeah. That sounds intense. Crystal: killed me. I’m not gonna lie. Amy: Yeah. Crystal: But to be honest, and here’s a plug for those that, are looking into this, is they’re like, this birth mother really needed you. Or, this, I don’t even, it seems wrong to even call them a birth mother. Their mom really needed you, to believe in her. She needed someone to believe in because they were in a placement where. It wasn’t necessarily a great match. And so they came to us for a summer before their parents got them back, and now they’re 14 years old and she has a third child and divorced. So she’s bi, she’s single with three kids, but she had moved away,someplace in the Midwest. And so I lost track of her, but when she was still here. they, I knew where they lived and would go to the grocery store and just buy a bag of popsicles and drop ’em off on my way home just to still support just a little bit. ’cause it, it was a struggle there. There’s a reason why kids are taken, because it was a struggle. She still needed some support. But, just recently, I found her just before Christmas. I found her. She’s in Amy: Oh, wow. Crystal: Arkansas. And so I had sent them all a outfit, and her an outfit. She texted me a couple nights ago and thanked me. So all this, it’s weird that all this is happening at the same time and doing this five. Amy: it’s fun though to remember the stories of the things that have happened. I just, I think, so I don’t, you probably don’t know this, but I also am a foster adoptive mom and have reunified kids, and I was the opposite. I was like, I’ll do foster care as long as they all go home. I didn’t all go home, so love them, but they didn’t all go home. but I just love the aspect and the thought process like that You are their support system. I am constantly telling people the reason why we have foster care and why kids get dropped off at all hours of the day at strangers’ homes is because they, their parent doesn’t have anybody. There is nobody safe or secure that those kids can go to. So CPS brings them to a stranger, a foster home. That is just mind boggling to Crystal: it it really is. Amy: Yeah. and I can’t get over it even though I’ve had so many kids come through my home and I’ve met many parents and reunified and adopted and all the things, but it’s just like these people don’t have anybody. And so that foster family can become somebody that supports Crystal: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. our, current situation is we are not, with work and other kids and growing up we just. We weren’t able to, continue to foster, but there was one that we kept renewing for. Amy: Yeah. Crystal: ’cause she came to our house when she was 18 months her first time, and then they went back to parents and then came back three months later and then went to a kinship home, and she just was failing to thrive. And she came back and,we were on track to act, to adopt her. So she’s a few months younger than our youngest. Amy: Okay. Crystal: And we went through, COVID the whole bit, and it just got to a point where parents weren’t, they’d be successful for a minute and then not. And Amy: which is very common. Crystal: yeah. And yet her parents love her. Her parents love her and she loves them, but she’s old enough now to just realize and , it got really difficult and, and, my kids saw the stress that was on me and the attention that was taken from them it was rough. And, the back and forth that foster kids go through when they’re visiting a parent for a weekend, then coming back. they can leave an angel and come back the devil, Amy: Yeah. Crystal: just, Amy: It’s a good way of putting it. Crystal: it’s because they’re just confused and it’s hard. and I just, it was one of those things that. We called on the higher power and was just like, we don’t really know what to do. And it was really quite miraculous how it turned out because in my mind I thought someone has to lose. Not everyone can win in this situation. either dad’s going to lose her forever, never see her again. Grandma, she’ll never see her grandma. She’ll lose her dad, or I’ll never see her again. And at this point, and in those formative years, she is quite bonded to me and our family. And she, to this day, it’s, she does Your home is home and there’s some other,another foster family involved as well. and she lives with grandma. But, But it was really miraculous how it turned out, and it did take some begging on my part to say, please let her live with her grandma. Amy: Wow, that’s unusual. Crystal: I promise you, I will. I promise you I will stay around. I just, I can’t sacrifice my own children at the moment. And that’s, that was the reality of it, as hard as that is for me to say. and so we all work together. it’s the team and her grandma and I are great friends and her dad and I are friends and with our family and Amy: it’s working, Crystal: it’s working pretty well and. There may be a time where she’s with us more, but right now it works. It works well. But at the time I was really, and even our caseworkers to this day are like, I cannot believe Amy: Yeah. That’s unusual. Crystal: when we were going, when we were going through it, they were like, this is the craziest case we’ve ever had. and even, and then I run into ’em now and they’re like, amazing. Amy: yeah. I love. Crystal: so grateful. Amy: Yes, absolutely. And I love that you said, like somebody had to lose, but ultimately they didn’t. Like everybody is getting to be a part of her life and you are getting to be with your family. The grandma’s getting to raise her, hopefully the dad is still being able to see her. that’s a win for everybody, which is incredible. I love that. Crystal: it really is. and sometimes that’s hard to accept because she’s gonna be. Most provided for, and in, in certain, in a certain situation. but that’s not all of it. There’s so much more to, there’s still some pretty hard days and, even though she’s older, there’s still hard days when she comes back Amy: Right. Crystal: from her dad’s and sometimes, we ha we have hard conversations and. Amy: Yeah. Crystal: she starts to understand stuff and it’s helpful, but, I’m forever grateful that we’re all friends now. It wasn’t always like that. I, I, used to be the devil to them, Amy: Crystal: but we all, they’re, they are, very thankful. That, that we’re still around, and so it’s working well. Amy: yeah. I think it’s really important to realize, if prospective foster parents are listening that like you say, sure, maybe I can provide a nicer house and maybe I can feed them whatever the heck they Crystal: Paper, Amy: of. Yes. Pay Crystal: all stuff. Amy: Yes. Yes, exactly. But that’s not everything. Part of a lot of it is that they deserve and they want to be with their mom and dad or with their grandma, whoever they can be with. But I’ve seen that with my adopted kids. We have a really good relationship with one of our bio moms and. My daughter’s five and she will sometimes say, why can’t I live with mama so-and-so?and I’m just like, yeah, I’m so sorry. And she’s doing great now, if the circumstances were different, they’d be different, but they weren’t back then. And kids want to be with those biological ties, want to be with those people that they grew up with and look like and love. And I think that’s really, can be really hard to understand as a foster family because we think, I have this, and this to offer them. Crystal: We can never offer them that biology or that instinctual innate bonding love. Amy: Yes, we can love the heck out of ’em, but it’s different. Crystal: Yeah, and I’m really grateful that I had. Adopted kids with very healthy, relationships with biological mothers and fathers and families, we’re actually quite close. And so it helped me understand that a little bit sooner, I think. As long as they’re healthy and the child is safe, they’re, I promise you, it’s worth it. It’s worth hanging onto that relationship. It’s never worth. Cutting it off because it will come back sometime. It might even be in adulthood, but it will come back and it will be a big issue. And this way she knows we’re all transparent. She knows, I’ll ask her about her dad and how her visit was, she could tell me, things like that. So yeah, it’s. Amy: better place for kids to have, in their families to be able to say, I miss Mama some, whoever, and I miss this person. And for us parents to say. It’s okay. Like I’m sorry, you do deserve to get to be with them, but because of life you don’t like, I would rather our kids be able to say those things than to, go into adulthood and find them selves in a not healthy situation, So I think we can provide that safety to our adoptive children. And I have an adopted child who we don’t have a relationship. The mom completely fell off and. I don’t know. Like I reach out every few months in hopes that I’ll get a response, but I don’t, And so that happens too. And it’s unfortunate, but that’s how it is. Crystal: And I think it’s also important to say that doesn’t mean the birth parent doesn’t love their kid. they’ve probably come to a reality that they’re not Amy: In a good place. Crystal: a good place and they don’t wanna mess things up or bother anything. and that’s how one of the, our birth mothers are, is they just don’t wanna, mess things up. And so they don’t, and it’s fine, but we still buy Christmas presents for. From her and, we still do her shopping and we, little things like that. and it’s also interesting because now that, now that, she’s older, our foster child is older, and, for all intents and purposes at this point, we’re just great family friends on the, on paper. But she views me as mom and I. That’s great and she also talks about her other mom, so Amy: Which is great. some kids do have multiple moms, multiple dads, and that’s okay. Crystal: And there was a point where, we really did need some help. And so we’ve, we had another foster family and that other foster family and us were best of friends. And it, this has really turned into a village and she knows, the other foster mom and I, we both go to parent teacher conference and we both, I don’t know how many of you have experienced this who are foster parents, but food always seems to be an issue. And they are hoarding food and always wanting food and always checking to make sure there is food. And so I first thing out of her mouth when I pick her up is, what are we having for dinner? What’s for dinner? First thing, and then first thing is she walks in the house, is opens the fridge or opens the pantry. And so it was actually starting to drive me crazy and that’s my problem. But so did, Amy: I feel that, Crystal: I did want her to understand something and I said, there were some times, that your dad didn’t have food. Or your mom didn’t have food and you suffered for it. And so psychologically you suffer from that a little bit. So I’m telling you this, not because I’m telling you not to open the fridge, but I’m telling you that they have some psychological stuff there. that happens. And so we do have those hard conversations and I always make sure I tell her, your parents, love you. They’ve always loved you, but at times they didn’t have food to feed themselves and couldn’t feed you. And so it’s affected you that way. And, making sure that they always know that their, parents love them is really important. Amy: Yeah, I agree with that. That’s awesome. these podcasts always go by really fast, but if there was anything that you could. Advise or recommend to anybody that’s considering foster care? What would be something that you would say that you’ve learned that you would’ve loved to know at the beginning or something like that? Crystal: With my experience, our experience, I wouldn’t trade any of it. we’ve learned so much. But number one is, as a foster parent, our job is to be the biggest cheerleader we can be for the parents to get their kids back if it’s possible. and if it’s not possible, you can still love them. You can still support him Amy: Yeah. And hopefully have a relationship if that Crystal: and have a relationship. Absolutely. the other thing, if you’re new into foster care or if you are, seeking something, it’s okay. We were to, and we were blessed with the miracle and,the crazy thing the week that. We were called about our son, being a safe haven baby. Those of you who aren’t quite sure, that means that he was dropped off at the hospital, no questions asked, walked in, left at the emergency, and walked out. There were two babies in Texas that were found in the trash can that same week, but thankfully they were, being, the dogs were being walked and found them before they died. Amy: Oh wow. Crystal: So they did live, Amy: Yeah. Crystal: but just thinking about that and thinking that could have been my son, just, I can’t even, I can’t even think about that. The other thing is about that particular situation. I remember I had taken him to the doctor just as a baby checkup and and. I loved our doctor. Great. Raised all my kids. And, he said, I remember him saying, how do they, how do people do that? How do I can’t believe birth mother or, mothers would do that? And I immediately said, thank goodness they did. Amy: Yes, I Crystal: Thank goodness they did. Amy: And I, he immediately realized what he had said. And, Yeah. Yeah. Crystal: so that kinda stuff goes through foster care as well. and to the, families out there who maybe have had kids go to foster care, this, it is a safe place. Hopefully, hopefully, you can trust it and,and not everybody’s perfect by any means, but, the goal should be getting him back. No matter how much you love them, and if you really love them, do that and keep a connection with them. The more people that love a kid, the better, and I learned that through adoption. There’s no reason to cut off birth. Mothers who place their babies for adoption is the more people that love somebody, the better that person is, Amy: Yeah. I totally agree. Yeah. thank you so much for sharing your experiences and your passion for reunification. I also have a passion for reunification. and I agree. It’s such an experience to get to. Stay connected with those kids that have been with you and to also see those parents succeed. I think that’s pretty incredible to get to see a parent in their lowest of lows and then do everything they can to get their kid back and get their kid back. Like what an awesome thing to get to be a part of as a foster family. so yes. So thank you so much for sharing your time and experience with us, and we Crystal: My pleasure. Amy: it. Crystal: My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Amy: Yes. Thanks for joining us for fostering Conversations. To learn more about foster care, go to www.utahfostercare.org.

Ep 68: Mentorship Program

In this episode of Fostering Conversations, host Amy Smith sits down with Michelle Ostmark, the Statewide Mentoring Coordinator for Utah Foster Care, to discuss the Utah Foster Care Mentoring Program and why it matters. Michelle explains how the program pairs experienced foster parents with new or existing foster and kinship families to provide guidance, emotional support, and real-life insight throughout the fostering journey. From navigating first placements and court processes to coping with reunification, burnout, and self-care, mentors help ensure families don’t feel alone. The conversation highlights how mentoring builds community, strengthens placements, and improves outcomes for children by supporting the adults who care for them. Michelle also shares how the program began, its statewide growth, success stories, and how former foster parents can continue giving back as mentors—even if they’re no longer licensed. Learn how to request a mentor or become one at: https://utahfostercare.org/foster-parent-resources/mentors/ TRANSCRIPT:  Welcome to Fostering Conversations. On today’s episode, we’ll be talking about the statewide Utah Foster Care Mentoring Program and its importance to our Utah foster families. Amy: Welcome to Fostering Conversations. I’m your host, Amy Smith. Today we have Michelle Ostmark, who is the statewide mentoring coordinator for Utah Foster Care. Thanks for joining us, Michelle. Michelle: Thank you for having me. Amy: So we’re excited to talk about the mentoring program. It is part of Utah Foster Care and available to all of our foster families in the state of Utah. Is that correct? Michelle: It’s also available to kinship families that have gone through the licensing process or have started the licensing Amy: which is awesome. I think kinship, all foster families need support, but kinship have an added layer of need of support, so I love that you’ve included that now. Michelle: Yeah. I think it’s important that they also have support for the children that are coming into their home. They have the same. Needs that any other child coming into care have, and they just have an extra dynamic of having a personal relationship with the biological families. Amy: Yeah, absolutely. So let’s just start by what is the mentoring program? Michelle: So the mentoring program is designed to pair a seasoned foster family with a new or existing family that needs additional support, or. Resources in each of their communities. We gear it towards new families just so that as they’re starting their foster care journey, they’re able to have somebody that they can call and gather information from, learn what’s appropriate, what’s not, questions to ask as they’re getting placements in their home, um, when they’re struggling, when there’s. exciting news for a child or their family, they have somebody that they can share those things with. Yeah. So that they’re not feeling alone. Amy: I love that because I think back to when I started fostering and I didn’t know like anything, like you just like you get trained. But then you forget what you’re doing and then a kid shows up and you’re like, wait, what am I doing again? Yeah. Michelle: Yeah. And I think our training is amazing, Amy: It is. It’s beautiful. Michelle: But like during that process, you go through the training and then you wait for your licensing and approval, and oftentimes there’s a few months that pass by. Yeah. And so all of that training that you’ve had, you’re super excited. But once you get that call for that child, all of that training and all of that, just go. Goes right out the window. And so foster families often panic because they don’t know what the next step is. And yeah, what do I do now? Who do I call? Why do these children have all of these appointments? And so having somebody that’s calling in and checking on them and making sure that they, have some. Support and somebody that has actually been down that road before them. They have lived experience that they can offer, advice and support for, and sometimes we have new foster families that have never parented before, so they don’t know who to call for medical appointments, dental appointments. And so having a mentor that is in their area, they’re able to, give them. A list of providers that they can possibly take the children to and just prepare them for what to expect during those Amy: Yeah, No, I think that’s so important to have that access to somebody that knows. And if nothing else, the fostering journey is so unique. You need someone that understands what you are doing and can tell you, yeah, that’s totally normal. Yes, I know. It’s absolutely wild what you’re enduring, but, yep. Sounds about normal. Michelle: Yeah. I think that, when we start this journey as foster adoptive families or kinship families you have a certain idea of what it’s going to be like, but once you step into that role, it’s nothing like that. Nothing like that. And so, just having somebody that you can talk to, that you can vent to is so important. Yeah. Our friends and our families in our personal life, often are very supportive, right when we start this journey. But because of the confidentiality that we have to maintain for the children that are coming into our home, and not just for them but for their biological families, um, we’re not able to share this stuff. Yeah. With. our personal friends and family where a mentor signs a confidentiality form that has been approved through DCFS that allows them to talk to these foster families in depth. They can talk to ’em about their court cases, visitation, anything that’s going on with the children, so that helps them get additional insight and how to best support the families. Amy: Yeah. I think that’s really important for mentors and the families that are getting mentored to know, is that they can talk about that information with each other, Michelle: And mentors can also attend child and family team meetings, because they’re, again, signing another confidentiality form. Their role will be a little bit different because they’re there to support the foster family, so they’re not there to offer insight or ideas or suggestions on the case just to help be a support to the foster family and help them understand. Why some of those things are being put in place for the children or for the families of the children so that they can have a little bit of support as they move forward with the case. think Amy: really valid. I remember as a foster parent, I would, after the family and team meetings, I would talk to the casa that was assigned to my foster child at the time. And it was just so nice to have somebody that knew what was going on. ’cause it was, you just, there’s not very many people who know what’s going on. And so it was just nice to have somebody. That could listen and be there. And yes, she was the advocate for the child, but it was just nice to have another adult to speak with. And so I think that’s what the mentoring program really Michelle: Yeah. It’s offering the support for our families that are providing the care for these children that are coming into the foster care system. They’re getting a ton of support. Their families are getting a ton of support, to help with reunification. But then our foster families are left going, where do I fit into all of this? So mentors also help with, all of those feelings with reunification. Why am I so sad? Why do these children need to go home? Why is the goal reunification? And if reunification doesn’t happen and it moves towards adoption, it’s helping them with that process as well. Yeah. So our mentors are designed to stay with a new family from the time that they are first licensed through their first placement. And then if they need additional support and help and they wanna keep ’em on longer, they can. We also offer it to existing families that are just struggling with like a new case that is really difficult and they just need, some additional support. So our whole goal is to build that village around our foster families so that they have people that can understand exactly what they’re going through, have already been through some of these difficult. Issues and can empathize with them in a way that other people can’t. We work really closely with the resource family consultants as well. Because they’re also a good support for our families. Yeah. But again, unless they’ve lived this right, they don’t have the lived experience to Amy: and they’re also supporting so many families. There’s 10, ish per region probably, and. They’re dealing with a lot of families. So mentors tell us how many families one mentor would take on. Michelle: mentors can take between one and eight families on their caseload. Their goal is to reach out to the family, one to four times a month. answer phone calls from the family to offer support if the family. Needs them. They don’t have to wait for the mentor to call them. Right. They’re able to call the mentor anytime. And in addition to that, if they’re unable to reach their mentor at any time, they also get my contact information. Yeah. And can contact me with questions and then I can guide them through whatever needs to happen in that moment. So Mentors are great for crisis situations. They can help find respite resources in the community, like again, like doctors, dentists, therapists, things like that. Yeah. They mentor each other and I help mentor them as well as a former foster, adoptive mom. And we make sure that, again, they have additional training to help support these families as needs arrive. Amy: I love that. Michelle: Tell Amy: Tell us a little bit about why and how the mentoring program was born. Michelle: So the mentoring program started. Nine years ago, we started researching throughout America what mentoring programs looked like. Most of the information we received were mentors for children. Okay. But we were not seeing a lot. On mentors for foster families. So we researched things for about six months. We came up with some great ideas and how this was gonna look. We reached out to DCFS. They are the ones that actually thought that this would be a great program for our foster families, and had asked for it for several years, and we finally launched it. We started in the Salt Lake region and within eight months we had it statewide. Okay. So currently we have 86 mentors statewide. We’re always in need of mentors who have some experience, and we have mentored 425 families from July, 2025 to the present, Amy: which is amazing when you only have you what said 86 mentors and 4 25 families. So yes, there’s clearly a need for more mentors, Michelle: in every region Amy: it’s also showing like we’re like, if you need a mentor, we’re gonna make it happen. Whether that’s you or someone in your region, ideally you want someone close to them, right? Someone that they could physically get together with if they needed Michelle: Yes. So go Amy: to lunch, grab a coffee, whatever Michelle: it is. Yeah. So our mentors actually. We’ll invite their families over for barbecues. They’ll take ’em, plates of cookies, just welcome stuff. A lot of our mentors use a Marco Polo app. Okay. Yeah. So that they have like, face-to-face interaction. Quite a bit. That’s a great idea. And a lot of families sometimes get a little overwhelmed and they’re like, oh, it’s just one more person I need to have contact, or, What they’re not understanding though, is this is a great support for you. Yeah. And. Our mentors have that lived experience so that, when you’re calling them either in a crisis or when there’s something good happening, they can celebrate with you or they can go through those trenches with you, right? During those difficult things. And I’ve seen mentors literally stop what they’re doing to go help a family in crisis and, offer respite. Just take a meal over or even just meet ’em for, an ice cream or a soda somewhere, just to help them learn how to build, self-rated regulation skills. And also to learn how to do some self-care. ’cause I think with our foster families. When you’re in the middle of all of this, I think we often forget to take care of ourselves. Amy: Oh yeah. You don’t have time. Michelle: Yeah. And so our mentors are really good at reminding our families that you need to do self-care too. Amy: Yeah. Take a little break. Take a little breather. Yeah. I love that. That’s awesome. Are you able to share like, any success stories with us about things that you’ve seen over the years of mentors or mentorees, if that’s what they’re called? Michelle: Yeah. A lot of our mentors and their families that they’re mentoring, become friends. Yeah. Through this process. Who better to understand what your family’s going through? Their kids connect in a different way because they understand, oh, our family isn’t the only one that is doing foster care. And so biological children, adopted children and all of the. Children that are placed in care are often connecting on a different level. Yeah. So I’ve seen a lot of friendships come out of mentoring and also I’ve seen a lot of families that have started, foster care that had a mentor at the beginning of their journey become mentors. And so Amy: they see the Michelle: of it Mm-hmm. Amy: they wanna give back in that way as well. Michelle: well. Yeah. And it just helps them when they had somebody that’s so supportive, they wanna be able to say, Hey, this person really helped me through a lot of, tough times or great times, and I wanna be able to help another family that’s starting out as well. Amy: Yeah. I love that. Yeah, I was thinking Michelle: back Amy: like two weeks ago, we had the Western region mom’s night out. And it was like 50 plus women that come, and I’m not a foster parent anymore, but we actually hosted at my mom’s house, so I still get to go every year. And so it’s so fun for me to get to go see these foster moms, many of who I know well because I was fostering at the same time in them and many new faces that have come on since. But it is amazing to see what that connection and comradery and. Just being able to sit there and chat and listen and totally relate to what each other are doing. And as a foster mom who hasn’t been doing this for the last year or two, I I’ve removed myself from that world in a small way. ’cause I don’t bring kids in on a regular basis. But putting myself back in that environment is just a reminder of like, we need each other and. You need those supports of who knows what this feels like and who can say that is absolutely insane. I can’t believe you did that, but Yep. I’m doing it too. So I just think the mentoring program is a small scale of that, right? We get together once a year for this mom night out, but mentoring can be every day, every week, every month when you need it. Yeah. Michelle: Yeah. I think it reminds us the why. Why do we do this? Yeah. Why do we bring these children into our home? Fostering is not an easy task by any means. You’re opening up your heart, your home, you’re subjecting yourself and your children to often heartache. Yeah. And so it reminds us of the why, like, especially when we. Build those long lasting relationships with foster families. Some of my closest and dearest friends now are families that I met through Amy: Foster. Yeah, absolutely. ’cause Michelle: they can relate to me. I can relate to them, their children can relate to my children, and we’ve become lifelong friends. Yeah. Through this process. And another thing, like you mentioned, you’re no longer a foster parent. I’m no longer a foster parent. One of the ways that families can still stay connected is as long as they’ve left DCFS in good standing and they wanna still remain involved, they can still be mentors. Yeah. Even if they’re not licensed, Amy: I just learned that today, speaking to you before we started the episode. So I think that’s an amazing way to give back. ’cause I was talking to a mom who was like, yeah, I don’t a foster mom. I don’t know how much longer I’m gonna foster, but I still wanna give back after. And I was like, it’s hard. It’s hard to know where you can still give back when you’re used to bringing kids into your home. That feels like the only way. So I think this is an amazing way that. Foster parents can give back that have had that experience, but maybe can’t, can no longer bring kids into their home. So I love that you’re sharing that. ’cause I had no idea. So hopefully we’re educating listeners as well that hey, you can still be a mentor if you’ve been a foster parent and left in good standing, which hopefully you have. Yes. Michelle: Yes. And we are the only state that I’m aware of that we are able to give our mentors a small stipend. It’s not huge, but we do give them a small stipend for their time in making sure that they’re contacting the families and Yeah, and letting us know what their needs are and. As they’re contacting families, they’re reporting back to me so that I can also help with any type of resources that they might need. Also can help connect them with our care communities. I meet with the DCFS, our RFC team, the resource Family consultants on a regular basis, so I can also reach out to them and. Say, Hey, this family is really struggling. These are the services that we have been able to provide for them through Utah Foster care. What can you do to help us wrap some more services around this family? Because at the end of this, we wanna make sure that they’re. Successful and that their placement is successful. Yeah. And they’re not leaving after their first placement saying, this is not what I imagined this would be. And I felt so alone in this process. We wanna make sure our families feel supported and cheered on, and they just have all of these people making sure that their needs are being met. Because if our foster families are feeling supported, the children that are coming into their home also have a much easier time. So, and we can help in that process of reunification or, sending them to kinship. Our kinship families are also facing those same things so that, we’re making sure that they have their village and they have the people that they need to rely on and count on when things get hurt or, yeah, there’s joy. Amy: And I think too when you have people that you can talk to I realized this a few weeks ago at this same mom’s night out, one of the moms was telling all these things, and I did, I text Tammy over at Care Communities and I said, so and so needs a care community. She didn’t ask for one. No, but I decided that she needed one. Yeah. And it was like sometimes as foster parents are the givers, right? We’re the people in the community that are literally stepping in to bring children in, strangers into our home in the middle of the night. Like it’s insanity if you think about it. And so oftentimes we don’t ask for help and sometimes we don’t even know that we need help. ’cause we’re just used to giving. That’s just what Michelle: we 1. And so I think. Amy: Mentoring can also as these parents are talking and chatting with you, there might be ideas like, Hey, they do need a care community, or, Hey, they do need, we need to get them set up with a therapist to talk through all of these really difficult things. Or, Utah Foster Care has the free therapy now and like, there’s just so many ways that people with an outside lens can support. ’cause sometimes you can’t always Michelle: see it when you’re Yeah. And I don’t think our families realize that there, that Utah foster care has so many Amy: supports I agree. Michelle: Yeah. And so we do, we, I get referrals from mentors saying, Hey, this family could really benefit for, extra help with one of our clinicians here at Utah Foster Care. They’re really struggling with reunification and they might need a little extra support and we can offer that to them. Yeah. I contact one of the clinicians, especially in their region. Yeah. And just say, Hey, can you reach out? I always check with the family first and make sure that they know we’re gonna be calling just so don’t catch ’em off guard. Yeah. And same thing with our care communities, we’re able to say. This is a service that we might be able to provide for you. Is this something you’ll be interested in? And if they’re not, we also have, other resources available to our families. We can get some meals delivered to them. We can get, respite situated and make sure that they’re being taken care of in different ways. So, yeah, and mentors do a lot of that too, yeah. They take time to, to do that for the families that they’re mentoring. If they need additional support, like that is what we’re doing for these families, is we’re making sure that we’re surrounding them with as much love and support as we can to make their foster care journey a little less Amy: stressful. Yes. Lighten the load in a small way. Yes. So tell us if somebody is wanting to become a mentor or feels like, Hey, I could really benefit from a mentor, what do they Michelle: do? So they just need to go to our Utah Foster Care website www.utahfostercare.org/mentors. There are a couple of tabs on there. One is a video just explaining the mentoring program just like we did today. Another is. Become a mentor. You would just fill that out. I would get that information, contact you. There’s a brief 20 minute training that we would do over the phone. Just get you prepared for what you would be doing as a mentor, and then we would get you started. If you need a mentor or a family that could benefit from one you just fill out the tab that. Is request a mentor. Okay. And then that, again we try to pair families fairly quickly within a week of them becoming licensed. If I get a request for an existing family, we do the same thing. We try and, get them paired as quickly as we possibly can. And then, the mentor just starts reaching out to them, sets up times to visit with them if that’s needed. And then you just build that friendship and that support as you go. And Amy: so this is a random thought, but what happens if like someone’s not vibing? Michelle: It happens. Okay. Or if the Amy: mentor’s like, actually I hate this. Please get me out of here. Michelle: So, we’ve had some situations where, a family is just like, I don’t think that I, this is the right person for me. Yeah. I just reach out to the mentor and say, Hey, can you gimme some insight on what’s happening? I talk to the family and then we repair them with somebody else. Sometimes they ask me if I’ll be their mentor, which is fine. Yeah. I have no problem helping and supporting families as well. Yeah. But that happens. We’ve had mentors who have had to step back for some time, either for personal reasons, medical reasons. Yeah. Or just they need a break. So they’ll let me know ahead of time, Hey, these are the families that I’m mentoring. Can you pick up for them while I’m on vacation? Or, I have to have surgery, so I need a little bit of, time off. We have mentors who. Have really difficult cases themselves and Yeah. And they just, Amy: just a lot to carry someone else’s load too. Michelle: Yeah. And so, they’ll oftentimes say, Hey, I have six families right now. These two families are really close to, ending their placement for, whether it’s reunification, adoption, or them going to kinship. And they’ll just say, I have these two families and I really think that they could benefit for. With keeping another mentor in place for them. But I need to step back for, yeah, a couple months just to, focus on my own family and my own needs for a while. That happens and, nine times outta 10 they’ll take a few weeks off and then call me and say, okay, I’m ready to come back. Amy: Yeah. Because that’s what foster parents do. We we say we need a break, and then we’re like, just kidding. We’re back. Michelle: Yeah. And I’ve built some great, friendships with the mentors on my team because they’re calling me all the time and just saying, okay, I need to vent. Yeah. And that’s what we do. We listen to each other. And something that we would tell, one of our personal friends, they may not understand, I’ve sure I’ve vented about, personal situations with either a foster placement or my own children. And people are like, why do you keep doing this to Amy: yourself? Exactly. Michelle: And so it’s nice to be able to have somebody that you can vent to and they’re just like, oh, I totally get that. Exactly. What can I do for you to make this situation better for you? And then oftentimes you just need to vent. Yes. And then you’re good. Amy: And I’ve found too that sometimes you just have to cry or laugh together at the total insanity of your life. Yes. And no one really is gonna get that unless they’ve done it or are doing Michelle: it. Yeah. And I’ve seen. F foster families come together during some really critical times for another foster family. Yeah, absolutely. And kinship family. When there’ve been, tragedies in their family, those foster care communities band together to really support, whatever’s happening in that family. And it’s been beautiful to see in a lot of ways. Yes. Looking on it from. Working here at Utah Foster Care, in addition to being a foster adoptive mom. Just seeing the amount of families that just love and care for each other in a different way is just beautiful. Amy: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. No it is. I always say it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done, and it’s the most beautiful thing I’ve ever done because it is, it’s so hard and yes, we had to step away to to care for all the kids that we now have, but it’s something that I’m so grateful that I’m part of and so honored to know how difficult and how beautiful it is. So it’s just it truly is an incredible community to get to be a part of. Michelle: Yeah. When you start it, you don’t think you’re gonna end up, with Amy: however Michelle: children. But yeah. I started this journey with three children of my own and ended up with. Eight children of my own Uhhuh. So, and then many more that continue to reach out and yeah, absolutely. Stay in contact. So it’s a great, it’s a great thing to be a part Amy: of. It really is. Thank you so much Michelle: for your time. Amy: and thank you for all of the energy and time that you put into the mentoring program and supporting our Utah foster families. If you wanna learn more, head over to Utah foster care.org. Thanks for joining us.

Ep 67: Trust-Based Relational Intervention

In this episode of Fostering Conversations, host Amy Smith sits down with Terumi Sagers, TBRI Specialist for Utah Foster Care, longtime foster parent, and adoptive parent. Together, they unpack the foundations of Trust‑Based Relational Intervention (TBRI)—a relationship‑centered, trauma‑informed caregiving approach developed by Dr. Karen Purvis and Dr. David Cross. This conversation is filled with real‑life examples, practical tools, and compassionate insights for foster parents, kinship caregivers, educators, and anyone raising children—because, as Terumi explains, TBRI works for all humans, not just those with trauma backgrounds. EPISODE SUMMARY Terumi shares her extensive experience fostering, adopting, and training caregivers for over 15 years. She explains the three core TBRI principles—Connecting, Empowering, and Correcting—and why trust must be rebuilt from a “negative starting point” for many children who enter care. You’ll hear: * How simple, consistent connection builds safety * Why correcting behavior isn’t effective until trust is established * How sensory needs, movement, nutrition, and hydration affect behavior * Practical examples caregivers can implement today * Clear guidance on where families (foster or not) can access TBRI training This episode is a comforting mix of vulnerability, practical strategy, and hope for caregivers navigating the complexities of trauma‑impacted parenting. GUEST Terumi Sagers TBRI Specialist, Utah Foster Care 20 years as a foster parent • Adoptive parent • Trainer and practitioner KEY TOPICS COVERED 1. WHAT IS TBRI? * A trauma‑informed parenting philosophy centered on trust‑building and relational connection. * Originally developed for children with trauma histories, but now shown to benefit all children and even adult relationships. 2. WHY TRUST STARTS BELOW ZERO * Children in care often enter new homes with trauma, loss, and disrupted attachment. * Caregivers must focus on connection to help kids reach “zero” before growth can begin. 3. THE THREE TBRI PRINCIPLES * Connecting: Relationship‑building through presence, attunement, and positive interactions. * Empowering: Meeting physical and sensory needs (movement, hydration, blood sugar, calm environments). * Correcting: Teaching life skills and addressing behavior after safety and connection are in place. 4. REAL‑WORLD EXAMPLES * A withdrawn teen reconnecting through daily small affirmations. * A family eliminating after‑school meltdowns simply by offering protein snacks and water right after pickup. 5. TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES * Utah Foster Care’s 8‑class TBRI Caregiver Series (20 hours). * Community resources including My Healing Home, Raise the Future, and online courses from TCU. 6. BECOMING A TBRI PRACTITIONER * A rigorous process including 10 weeks of study, an intensive adult attachment interview, and a 5‑day immersive training. RESOURCES MENTIONED * Books: The Connected Child and The Connected Parent by Dr. Karen Purvis * Training: UtahFosterCare.org → TBRI Caregiver Series * Community Providers: My Healing Home • Raise the Future * Online Learning: TCU’s TBRI 101 resources NOTABLE QUOTES * “When you choose to become a parent, you choose how you spend your time. You can front‑load it with connection—or spend it all correcting.” * “Our kids aren’t starting at zero. They’re starting at negative.” * “Even as adults, we can keep using these principles to strengthen our relationships.” LEARN MORE Visit UtahFosterCare.org to explore TBRI trainings, resources, and support opportunities. TRANSCRIPT Episode 67: Trust-Based Relational Intervention Amy: On today’s episode, we’ll be talking to Terumi from Utah Foster Care about TBRI principles. This is a parenting strategy for anybody, parenting kids with trauma or anyone with kids in the home. Welcome to Fostering Conversations. I’m your host, Amy Smith. Today we have as our guest, Terumi Sagers, who is the TBRI specialist for Utah Foster Care. Welcome, Terumi. Terumi: Thank you. Thank you for having me Amy: . So you are the specialist. You’ve been teaching for a while. Tell us a little bit about yourself. So listeners just have a little bit of background. Terumi: So my husband and I were foster parents for 20 years fostered and did respite for. A long time. We also adopted three of our four children from the foster care system, and I have been with Utah Foster Care for coming up on 15 years now, working on the training team. Amy: so you are more than qualified is what I hear. Terumi: I would hope so. Amy: I love that. That’s amazing. So tell us let’s just start from the beginning. What is TBRI? Terumi: So TBRI stands for trust-Based Relational Intervention and it is a parenting philosophy based out of research done by Dr. Karen Purvis and Dr. David Cross out of TCU. Amy: so I’ve taken the TBR trainings as a foster parent. Something I always wonder, I don’t. Know, so I’m asking is TBRI only for kids with trauma or can it be used to parent any type of child? Terumi: I love that question because when we first learned about it, it was in the context of working with kids that have experienced trauma or have had toxic levels of stress. But as the research has gone on. They have realized this works for all kids. This works in other relationships as well. And I have had families come through TBRI training and say, I don’t have any kids in my home, but I’ve been doing this with my coworkers, or I’ve been doing this with my spouse and this works everywhere. And I love that. The reality is, yes, it works everywhere with everyone. Amy: Yeah. And why is that? Maybe give us like a very small, I know TBRI is very intense and has so many layers, but can you give us like a little bit of a nutshell overview of what the basis of it is for listeners that maybe don’t know what it is. Terumi: So we go back to that name, trust-based relational intervention, that we build trust in relationships, and that helps us have influence on behaviors of others. And when we put that relationship at the forefront and connecting with people on a really basic level, they feel that safety with us, and it allows us to then empower them. It allows us to correct behaviors when we need to because they know they can trust us. Amy: Yeah. Some of the, the basic things that I remember when I took the training years ago or, or is when one of the. activities, during the training is they have a pretend hurt essentially, and you ask, where is your hurt? May I put a bandaid on it? And I, I think it really is so basic. You’re just doing these basic things of like you say. Building trust and with, especially with kids with trauma they don’t have that on any foundational level. And so starting with these really simple bandaid activities, makes them start being more comfortable and being able to trust their caregivers. Terumi: Yeah. When we think about trust, we tend to think starting maybe at zero and going forward, but our kids in care have had traumas to the level that you’re not starting at zero. You’re starting at negative. Amy: Yeah. That’s interesting. I hadn’t thought about that. Terumi: time to get to zero. And so all of these activities, all of the strategic things that were being very intentional about teaching are to get you to zero to then start going forward in that relationship. Amy: Yeah, and I think as a caregiver or a parent, that can be overwhelming because first of all, we want instant results, right? We want kids to just be amazing and trust us and obey and do everything. That would be amazing, but. And that’s just not reality for any child, but I think having that perspective of, you’re trying to even just get to zero, I think that’s a really good perspective for caregivers to think about. I had never thought about that before, so I really like that. Terumi: Yeah, when you have a baby that is born to you from the moment. Even in the womb, you are doing things that they learn to, Hey, this person’s taking care of me. I can trust and I’m safe. When a child just lands on your doorstep, they don’t know you. They don’t know. That you can be trusted in any way. And sometimes we forget that because we think everything that was in the past is in the past. But trauma doesn’t go away the moment they hit your doorstep. Amy: You just added another pile on actually. Terumi: This is an additional trauma Amy: Correct. Yeah. Terumi: now I’m living with. Hopefully if we’re able to find kinship providers, someone I know at least, otherwise, being placed on the doorstep of well-intentioned Total strangers. Amy: know I, when I explain foster care to people, I, I say, think of how many people you have. If you and your spouse were unavailable to take care for your kids. The list is probably long, right? Kids in foster care, literally there’s no list, so they’re coming to a stranger’s house and it is. Like still, to me it’s so mind boggling to think, wow, we have this many kids and this many adults really in the state of Utah and in the country that they have no one. And so their kids are going to strangers when they’re in a terrible situation. That’s really sad. Terumi: Yes. As hard as it is to be in that stressful situation, having someone you can count on helps buffer that stress and these kids. Haven’t had someone that could count on and in fact have been hurt in relationships where they should have been kept safe. Amy: Yeah. Terumi: And so it puts you again at that deficit below zero because moms aren’t necessarily safe or dads aren’t necessarily safe. And now I have a mom and a dad. I have no history that tells me I can trust them. Amy: Yeah. I remember the first night we got our now adopted daughter. She was 14 months and it was the middle of the night and a caseworker brought her in a car seat and I. Came outside, took her out of the car seat, carried her to my couch. She was filthy. I didn’t choose to bathe there right then. I was like, this poor kid is, going through a lot. So we, I just sat and held her, but it was so interesting because, she was tired and it was a lot, but that morning she would not let me hold her. She would let my husband hold her. She would let my kids hold her. But the mom figure it was a no. And it was so interesting, and it took a few days for her to be okay with me holding her. But really these kids do have barriers and things that have happened to them that they can’t trust the adult female figure, or they can’t, they’re scared, and you have no idea why. So it’s crazy. Terumi: And part of what we talk about with. TBRI and a lot of the trainings that we present to foster parents is about attachment and the attachment cycle and that you keep showing up, they will show you what their needs are and you keep showing up. What I love about TBRI is it’s not theoretical about what attachment is and how you build it. It is very practical. Do this, then do this. Amy: Yeah. Yeah, Terumi: And we still cover that overarching idea around attachment, but it’s very hands-on, very holistic, very practical. Amy: yeah. So tell us a little bit about the TBRI training that Utah Foster parents can participate in. Terumi: So we offer what is called the caregiver series, and it is a series of eight classes. They are two and a half hours each, so by the time you finish, you have 20 hours of training there has been a new curriculum that has come out in the last six months, and I love it because it not only takes those principles, but it does widen the audience of who this is available too, and it makes it more user friendly even than it was before. So we have nights where we’re talking about the brain and understanding the basics about , the brain a night about attachment. And then we go into what are called the principles. And there’s three principles of TBRI. We will spend two nights talking about connecting and building those relationships. We will spend two nights talking about empowering, and this is some of the structures that we put in place to help kids calm their bodies and to help our homes be safe and calm places for them. And then we. Spend two nights talking about correcting behavior. Now, if we’ve put in the time as parents, which is what I always tell parents, when you choose to become a parent, you will put in time and you get to choose how you spend your time. You can either front load it with a lot of connecting and a lot of empowering, or you can. Choose to do a lot of correcting. And in TBRI, we look at this as a pyramid that we want that foundation of connecting and empowering. And then the very top is the correcting. And even in that, we break it down into we’re gonna teach the life skills we want. And at the very top is correcting behaviors in that moment. Because that’s the least effective time to Amy: I know. Terumi: actually teach, and we forget that as adults. Amy: Yes. And it’s always, at least for me, it’s always oh, immediately that’s, I’m like, we have to fix that right now. And it’s oh, not the time, it’s it. I don’t know if it’s human nature to just want to go exactly there or if it’s my personality or what, but yeah, it takes a lot of effort. Terumi: wanna fix it. Wanna fix it right now? Amy: Yeah. Terumi: And we are frustrated. And they are frustrated and we use way too many words when they’re not in a space that their brain is comprehending a lot of words. So what we tend to do when we put in time sometimes is we flip back and forth between having the triangle. Or look like a pyramid and having it inverted where we’re spending all our time correcting. We’ll figure out the empowering things and that connection comes last. And I tell parents the way you can tell where you’re at because we all do it and we all flip back and forth between them. Amy: Yeah. Terumi: But if you are frustrated as a parent. If you are feeling like every interaction I have is correcting behavior, my hunch is you’ve inverted that pyramid Amy: Yeah, that makes sense. Terumi: and if you can go, I gotta flip it back, it starts with you as a parent going, I’ve gotta focus on that connection and I’ve gotta focus on positive interactions with my child. I had a child that at one point. Was so struggling with his mental health that he literally did not leave our house more than five times over the course of a year and a half. Amy: yeah. Wow. Terumi: I struggled with that, and I struggled to connect with him because he was so withdrawn. Amy: Yeah. Terumi: There was a time when the most I could come up with was, thank you for showering. You smell really nice today. And that was my feeble effort at connecting with that child. But when I started doing that every day, finding one way to connect with him, Amy: Yeah. Terumi: it flipped that relationship again. And he knew I had his back. I was on his site. And eventually it built where it was not hard to find things to be positive about, and it was easy to continue to build and to continue to empower him towards better mental health. Amy: Yeah. No, I think every parent can relate to that and I always, anytime we’re talking. You know about parenting aspects, I’m always laughing in my head ’cause I’m like, oh, I have this kid who’s really easy to parent and this kid who’s really hard to parent. And it’s a personality conflict for some of us. But ultimately it does. It comes back on us as the parents to find the ways to connect, to find the ways to take a deep breath and try again. And it’s hard. It’s hard as a parent. Terumi: It is we are human and we get frustrated too but remembering, oh, wait, yes, I’m the adult in this situation, whether I wanna be or not right now. Amy: There you go. That’s exactly right. Terumi: I actually am the adult. Amy: Yes. So tell us a little bit if people are not foster parents, is there a way that they can access this type of training Terumi: Yes. There are multiple community resources. My healing home here in Salt Lake County offers it. They offer it statewide. You can look into Raise the Future, offers community classes as well, and. It’s also available online through TCU. So Texas Christian University has A-T-B-R-I 1 0 1 class that you can take there. Additionally, TCU has put out multiple YouTube videos that’ll just give you. Brief glimpses into TBRI and some of these principles we’re starting to spread statewide in the number of what we call practitioners. People like myself who’ve been trained to teach TBRI and so it’s becoming more prevalently available in schools Amy: Oh, that’s awesome. Terumi: and in. Therapy agencies and things like that. So it’s starting to spread, but raise future and my healing home are two that I would recommend Amy: Okay. Yeah. That’s really good to know because I like, I had literally never even heard of this concept until I became a foster parent and. Then even still when I’ve told other people about it, I’ve had, once you become a foster parent, people think you’re like this all-knowing magical being, and it’s no, actually I’m just a human who signed up to do something really crazy, but thank you for that empowering comment. But people will reach out, right? And be like, I have this difficult niece or nephew or, and it’s I’m not. Therapist I, anyways, so I think it’s great to know where we can refer people to, or if somebody’s listening that is not a foster parent, where are these resources that they can access? Terumi: And now that you said that two books I’m gonna recommend, the connected child and the connected parent, and they are both based on TBRI principles by Karen Purvis. Amy: Okay. That’s amazing. Yeah. So that just gives a little bit of a foundation and some options for people to go look at. I would love for you to chat a little bit about what the training’s like. To become A-T-B-R-I practitioner. I’ve talked to a few of the other people at Utah Foster Care who have gone through that, and I think it’s super fascinating. So I don’t know if you have any I know that’s a random question, but I just found it really fascinating who just explained a little bit of what becoming a practitioner for it is and what it entails. And I would love if you’d be willing to share a little bit about that. Terumi: It is rather intense. Apply for the opportunity to do it. I did it late in COVID, so my experience was entirely online, which is not the ideal way and is not the way they do it now. But they have, you do about 10 weeks of. Studying and deep diving into TBRI principles, and then they set up an appointment to do something called the adult attachment interview. I told you earlier, we talk about attachment and different attachment styles with the adult attachment interview. This is a several hour process, one-on-one with an interviewer where they talk, have you talk about your childhood Amy: Oh wow. Terumi: and your parents, and. Their personalities. Your personalities, how, what worked, what didn’t what your memories are like. And then at the end of that, they tell you what your attachment style is with each of your parents, Amy: Oh, okay. Terumi: because that then shows up in how you parent and how you interact. Other relationships, it can show up in romantic relationships. It can show up in parenting relationships. So that in and of itself is very intense. Amy: do we all get one of those? Terumi: They’re very expensive to do. That is not a random thing. You just click on online. Amy: kidding, but how fascinating was it? So eye-opening to you Terumi: very Amy: and slightly horrifying. I think it would be like, Terumi: Also. Amy: wanna know that about myself. Terumi: Yes. And it, it gave me deeper insight into some of the choices that I have made as an adult for good and bad. Amy: Yeah. Wow. That’s really, yeah. That would be so interesting. Terumi: And then after that there is a one week long intensive where you are in a training session with them nine to five for five days, and they move it around the country. I think they have one coming up in Las Vegas and wound up in Washington. Amy: Okay. Terumi: It’s a rather intense process and a lot of self discovery Amy: yeah, I Terumi: in figuring that out. Amy: Wow. I just think that’s, it’s awesome and really neat to hear how intensive it is to become, to train this, because TBRI is not easy to do. It’s not like you’re gonna go into this class and then you’re like, wow, I am a spectacular parent. All of a sudden it, it takes. Effort. It takes a lot of effort and so I think even just becoming an educator in it, like it shows you took a lot of effort and a lot of time and probably a lot of soul searching to become qualified to, to teach it. Terumi: Yes, absolutely. Amy: You’re like, maybe I didn’t wanna do this. Terumi: There were times where I was like, this felt like a really good idea. Amy: Love that. Terumi: It’s a lot. I look back now though, and it has done. A world of good to use these principles with my own children in helping those relationships, in helping my marriage, in helping my relationships with my own siblings and my parents to just put things in context a little differently. Amy: Yeah. Terumi: It’s been amazing. Amy: That’s so cool. I would love if you would be willing to share just one or two successes. You shared about one of the kids that lived with you, that was struggling with mental health, but do you have any other examples that could be mentioned either about your family or people you’ve worked with? Anything? Just beautiful success stories from it. Terumi: So one of the things that. We spend a lot of time talking about is sensory challenges because a lot of our kids in care have sensory challenges of a variety of kinds. They may be seeking sensory experiences, they may be trying to avoid certain sensory experiences. In the empowering principles, we talk about how we help kids calm their bodies, and some of it has to do with these sensory experiences. Some of it has to do with making sure their blood sugar is at a regular level and making sure they’re not dehydrated rated. So it’s fun when I teach these classes and it’s once a week because parents are giving given an assignment. Go try. Something that we’ve taught this week and come back and tell us what worked, what didn’t work, and when there’s five or six of us doing this, we’re getting a whole bunch more ideas from each other. One of the things was the blood sugar and hydration, and I said, make sure right after school they are getting a snack that’s going to help regulate their blood sugar and make sure they’re getting water. Amy: Yeah. Terumi: The next week curls around and a parent comes back and she said, I went and bought high protein snacks instead of the garbage. I’d been Amy: Yeah. Terumi: being out for them to eat. And she said, it’s more expensive, but my kids every day are like, where is our special snacks? Amy: I love it. Terumi: And she said, all of those afterschool meltdowns that we were having went away. When they were getting fed and hydrated right after school because we walked through the process of what does a day look like at school? When was the last time they Amy: It’s true. Terumi: When was the last time they moved their bodies? That’s probably around one o’clock, but they’re probably eating around 11 o’clock and you’re not seeing ’em until three. Amy: Yeah. Terumi: Or three 30. So they have gone four hours and we need to get something in them fast. And so now we have a lot of families that are keeping mini water bottles or their child’s water bottle in the car and some type of snack with them in the car. So as they get in the car, they hand it to them. Amy: Do not speak. Eat this. Terumi: Or anyone can melt down. Please eat this food and drink this water and are coming back going. That was game changing. Amy: And it’s so silly, right? Like I find that all the time. I have one specific child and he’s I’m sorry that I was hangry yesterday. He can’t even think straight. He’s losing his mind. And I’m like, let’s just get you some blah, blah, blah, going crazy. Finally the next day he’s i’m so hard. Sorry that I was hangry. I’m like yes you were. Thank you for recognizing it now. But it is simple, but it really matters. It really does. Terumi: it really does. And families have come back saying, okay, I’ve tried this. Oh, have you tried this particular type of water bottle? And it’s working with kids of all ages just to meet those really basic Amy: Yeah. Terumi: And being aware of those timeframes. Have they moved their body in the last two hours? Don’t make ’em sit down and do homework right after school until you’ve gotten a snack in them and they’ve moved their body Amy: Yeah. Terumi: because. They’ve just been so pent up for so long. Sitting in a classroom, they are gonna struggle unless you get them hydrated, get their blood sugar, get meet those sensory needs if moving their body, it’s gonna go a whole lot smoother after school. Amy: Yeah, and I think that’s what you were talking about with TBRI. There are tangible things to do. Do this, then do this and yes, it’s a lot of things, right? As a parent, we’re like we just wanna snap our fingers and have it magically work. But this is not that there’s no snapping of fingers, but there is actual steps and information and. Things you can do, which I as a parent really appreciate because so many times it’s just do, just be a better parent and they’ll be better, so I really appreciate that aspect of TBRI. Terumi: And I love, I truly, every time I teach it, I’m like, oh, I should try that too. My kids are all young adults now, but I still like. Amy: probably even more reason to try it. Terumi: We should go back and try this, or maybe in that next conversation I have with that child, I can do this to reconnect with them to help have influence. They’re young adults. I’m not gonna be changing their minds on certain things, but I can have influence still, and I’m still using these principles. I’m still. Every time I take it, I learn something new and I try something new. And that’s the other thing that I’ve told parents every time they take the TBRI courses come back, you’re going to learn something new. You’re going to have a new insight with a different relationship. This is going to be helping you with Amy: And relationships are always evolving and changing mean you always have stronger or weaker ones or new ones, so there’s always something that can be worked on with somebody. At least for me, this is just, there’s just so many options really. Terumi: Exactly. Amy: Oh, I love that. I have enjoyed taking the TBRI course. I should absolutely take it again ’cause I’m in new stages of life and new things. But I really appreciate you sharing all of this information. It’s beyond helpful for listeners. Yeah. Terumi: The opportunity. Amy: Yes. No, it really is great. So we will just refer listeners to Utah foster care.org if they want to learn more or to sign up to take one of the courses. Thanks for joining us, Terumi. Terumi: Thank you. Amy: Thanks for joining us for Fostering Conversations. I’m your host, Amy Smith. To learn more, head over to Utah foster care.org.