In Between Them

20. *Expert Alert* Carol Barkes - Your Brain on Divorce, Why Parents Struggle to Keep Kids First

In this expert episode, we sit down with Carol Barkes — America's leading neuroscience-based conflict expert, TEDx speaker, mediator, and consultant — to talk about something every divorcing parent or any professional working with divorce parents needs to understand: what is actually happening inside our brains in the middle of a conflict, and why do well-intended parents make so many mistakes? Carol breaks down, why our brains shut down under conflict and why that matters so much inside divorce — where the stakes are high, the history is long, and almost every conversation is loaded. She gets specific about the impacts on kids. When parents can't regulate their emotions in the middle of conflict, children pay the price — silently, and often invisibly, in ways that surface years later. The good news: parental awareness around their own behavior and reactions is one of the single most protective factors a child can have. Small shifts in how parents show up during conflict make an outsized difference in what kids carry forward. A few of the moments from this conversation that will stick with you: * The zinger problem. When someone lands a dig — that perfect, satisfying comeback — the other person's brain literally shuts off. Nothing productive can happen from there. And divorce, as Carol puts it, is full of zingers. Learning to notice the urge and not take the bait may be the most underrated skill in the whole process. * Be "conflict curious." Instead of attacking, ask questions. Curiosity is the opposite of contempt, and it's the only thing that keeps the other person's brain online long enough for anything real to happen. * Perspective is everything. Carol gives clear, practical examples of why understanding how the other person is seeing the situation is critical — not because you have to agree, but because you can't move through a conflict you don't actually understand. * Strategies you can use today. Concrete tools for staying regulated, slowing the moment down, and protecting your kids from being collateral damage in the middle of an adult disagreement. Whether you're navigating an active divorce, co-parenting through one, or making sense of one you grew up inside of — this conversation will change how you hear your own voice in the middle of a fight. Find Carol: * Website: carolbarkes.com [http://carolbarkes.com] * Instagram: @carol.barkes [https://instagram.com/carol.barkes] * Watch her TEDx talk: youtu.be/ulDT5C_LXkk [http://youtu.be/ulDT5C_LXkk] Carol's book recommendation: Words Can Change Your Brain by Andrew Newberg, M.D. and Mark Robert Waldman. Chapters * 00:00 The Role of Neuroscience in Conflict Resolution * 35:34 Understanding Power Dynamics in Co-Parenting * 46:58 Unintended Impacts of Divorce on Children * 58:17 Managing Emotions and Communication in Mediation Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at shannon@onward-mc.com [sdarrow@onward-mc.com]. Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod

19. Vanessa - 3 years old - From "I'm Fine" to Honest: Absent Father, Strong Mom, then Peace

Vanessa was three years old when her parents divorced — too young to understand what was breaking, but old enough to start building something new. In this episode, Vanessa shares the story of growing up as one half of a team with her mom, a stretch of time spent at her grandparents' house, and the every-other-weekend rhythm with her dad that anchored her childhood — until he moved away, and the distance changed everything. What was supposed to be a plan became space. And space, over time, became resentment. Vanessa walks us through the emotional evolution most kids of divorce know intimately but rarely get to name out loud: the "I'm fine" years, where she leaned on her mom's strength and convinced herself she didn't need anything more; the teenage years, when "fine" cracked open into anger toward her dad; and now, as an adult, the more complicated place of seeing all the missed opportunities clearly — while still wanting to know her dad as a person, not just as the parent who wasn't there. But this episode isn't only about looking back. It's about what Vanessa has built forward. In her own parenting and step-parenting journey, she's taken the hardest parts of her childhood and turned them into a blueprint: keep the calm, keep the peace, and protect the kids from the noise the adults create. She and her family have laid a strong foundation between blended households, learned that flexibility almost always creates a better outcome than rigidity, and built a one-of-a-kind parenting time schedule that genuinely works for everyone involved — kids included. Tune in for Vanessa's childhood story and so much more — there's a lot to learn here about absent fathers and what reconnection can (and can't) look like later in life, but also about married life, blended family dynamics, and how everything from back then has been carried forward to make her stronger, softer, and more aware in the life she's living now. ---------------------------------------- Connect with Vanessa's Business: * Instagram: @ [https://www.instagram.com/realtorrashelle]abranchandcord ---------------------------------------- Book Recommendation from this episode: The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins Takeaways * Parental influence shapes childhood experiences * Reconnecting with absent parents can lead to personal growth Childhood experiences impact adult relationships * Communication is key to resolving conflicts and maintaining relationships Chapters * 00:00 Early Life and Family * 05:56 Transitioning Between Homes * 12:00 Teen Years and Relationship with Father * 18:02 Changing Last Name and Reconnecting with Father * 25:53 Reflections on Parental Influence * 35:53 Dating and Relationships * 50:45 Step-Parenting and Co-Parenting * 59:04 Flexibility in Parenting Schedules * 01:09:08 The Value of Communication

18. Rashelle - 15 years old - Her Unruly Childhood Helped Her Do Divorce Better

---------------------------------------- The Long Shadow of a Divided Home: Rashelle's Story When Rashelle was just 5 years old, she lost her biological father. By 6, her mom had remarried, and by 15, that marriage was ending too. But the divorce itself wasn't the hardest part — it was everything that came with it. A house filled with constant fighting. The instinctive, bone-deep urge to shield her two younger siblings from the storm. The quiet weight of being the oldest in a home where the adults couldn't hold it together. In this episode, Rashelle takes us back to moments that still sting — like senior night, when her parents struggled to stand together to take a single photo with her. That animosity didn't fade with time. Now in her 40s, she still can't mention one parent in front of the other without everything going sideways. But this is where her story turns. Rashelle opens up about how the pain of her childhood became the blueprint for one of the most intentional choices of her adult life: building a united co-parenting front with her ex-husband for their daughter. It isn't always easy. There are hard days, hard conversations, and moments where it would be easier to let the wall go up. But Rashelle does the work — every single time — because she's giving her daughter the very thing she longed for and never received: two parents who can stand together, even after standing apart. ---------------------------------------- Connect with Rashelle: * Instagram: @realtorrashelle [https://www.instagram.com/realtorrashelle] * Realtor serving the Willamette Valley, Oregon * Listen to her podcast, The Realtor Who Wines, on Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-realtor-who-wines/id1804767105] or Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/0LjeLoEmYT1KcKH8Q6QWbN] ---------------------------------------- Book Recommendation from this episode: The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins Takeaways * Family dynamics impact childhood * Managing parental conflict as a child * Long-lasting impact of parental divorce Impact of Divorce on Parent-Child Relationships * Parenting Through Divorce Setting Boundaries * Letting Go of Control Chapters * 00:00 Introduction and Background * 05:54 Impact of Parental Divorce * 14:51 Coping Strategies and Impact * 20:57 Parental Conflict and Impact on Relationships * 56:08 Supporting Children's Relationships with Step-Parents * 01:05:43 The Long-Term Journey of Co-Parenting * 01:12:35 Clothing and Material Matters * 01:19:05 The Power of Boundaries

17. *Expert Alert* Ilian Alchehayed - Family Law Attorney in Orange County, CA - Keeping Kids First

In this episode, Ilian Alchehayed, a Certified Family Law Specialist in Orange County, California, shares insights from his experience working with families navigating divorce. He explores the challenges parents face during separation and emphasizes why understanding the impact on children is essential. Ilian discusses how parenting time schedules have shifted over the years—from flexible arrangements to more structured and rigid systems—and what that means for families today. He highlights the importance of truly putting children first, noting that outcomes for kids are closely tied to the decisions and behaviors of their parents. He also breaks down how divorce affects children differently depending on their age, and why greater awareness of these developmental differences can help parents better support their kids through the transition. The conversation dives into the realities of co-parenting, including common pitfalls and strategies for doing it effectively. Ilian shares real-world examples of how fear-driven decisions can negatively impact children—and how parents can instead make thoughtful, child-centered choices. Ultimately, Ilian reinforces that while divorce is difficult, children can adapt and even thrive when parents remain intentional, cooperative, and focused on their well-being. Ilian practices at Tustin Law Group [https://tustinlawgroup.com]. He also recommends the book The Whole-Brain Child as a valuable resource for parents seeking to better understand and support their children at various stages of development. For information on this podcast or if you want to be a guest you can find more details at my website [https://onward-mc.com/podcast/]. Takeaways * Certified Family Law Specialist * Impact of Divorce on Children Parenting after divorce * Impact of divorce on children Chapters * 00:00 Becoming a Certified Family Law Specialist * 10:28 The Evolution of Parenting Time and Parenting Schedules * 36:48 Co-Parenting and Parenting Styles * 51:39 Parenting After Divorce * 01:04:09 Co-Parenting and Child Support * 01:19:13 The Reality of Divorce * 01:28:06 Making Decisions from a Fear-Based Position

16. Carly - Part 3 - The Final Part - Mother of Kate and Stepmother of Sydney and Her Reflections

Carly is the mother of Kate (episode 14) and stepmother to Sydney (episode 15) and in this episode she reflects on their episodes and what she heard, what surprised her and what resonated with her. She covers a wide range of topics, including her own speech pathology and how that impacted her step-parenting, personal experiences with illness and parenting, her divorce, difficult co-parenting and positive step-parenting. Takeaways * Resilience and support play a crucial role in recovery and coping with life-changing experiences. * Step-parenting and co-parenting dynamics have a significant impact on children and their perspectives. Respectful co-parenting relationships are crucial for the well-being of children. * Parental support and independence play a significant role in children's development. Chapters * 00:00 Introduction and Background * 05:08 Impact on Children During Illness * 10:27 Impact of Divorce on Children * 16:58 Step-Parenting and Co-Parenting Dynamics * 23:05 Step-Parenting and Co-Parenting Dynamics with Teenagers * 28:42 Step-Parenting and Co-Parenting Reflections on Parenting * 34:33 Step-Parenting and Co-Parenting Challenges and Responsibilities * 47:21 Navigating Co-Parenting Relationships * 53:50 Parental Influence and Independence * 01:03:12 Reflections on Parenting and Co-Parenting * 01:26:49 Community Support and Impact on Children