Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

About Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

Podcasts By Donna Jodhan feature a variety of audio podcasts that focus on the future of children, particularly those with disabilities. As a blind advocate and entrepreneur, Donna shares her insights, life experiences, and advocacy efforts, aiming to inspire and inform her listeners. Her podcasts cover issues such as accessibility, inclusivity, and breaking down barriers in technology and everyday life, encouraging collective efforts to create a better and more equitable future for all children.

Remarkable World Commentary Episode #88: Interview with Elizabeth Mohler, Ph.D. Researcher, Educator, Advocate, Scholar, Speaker

🎙️ Remarkable World Commentary Episode #88: Interview with Elizabeth Mohler, Ph.D. Researcher, Educator, Advocate, Scholar, Speaker | Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-04-30-2026/ [https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-04-30-2026/] In this episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna J. Jodhan ... In this thoughtful episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna welcomes Dr. Elizabeth Mohler [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mohlerc/], newly minted PhD, longtime team member at BALANCE for Blind Adults [https://www.balancefba.org/], and a young leader Donna has known since her earliest days in the field, for a conversation that moves from family kitchen tables in 1980s Brockville to the methodology of critical discourse analysis. Born with congenital glaucoma, Elizabeth walks listeners through her family's 1987 move to Toronto for services, the formative years she spent at W. Ross MacDonald School for the Blind beginning in grade five (where she found community, learned to cook, and discovered swimming, track, trampoline, and choir), her path as the first student with sight loss at Wilfrid Laurier's Brantford campus, her Master of Science in Occupational Science at Western, and her PhD in Health and Rehabilitation Sciences on a four-year SSHRC doctoral fellowship, including the pilot work she contributed to make the SSHRC application itself accessible to JAWS users. The second half digs into Elizabeth's intellectual and professional core. She takes Donna through her doctoral research on Ontario's Direct Funding program, a critical discourse analysis of 51 program documents that produced "chrono-normative citizenship," her own term for the way able-bodied notions of time are used to govern disabled people's care. She shares the dual perspective she carries as a blind adult who also helps support two non-verbal brothers with multiple diagnoses, and makes the case for a more holistic, less binary understanding of caregiving in a country where one in four Canadians is now a caregiver. She traces the origins of her 2016 Elsevier volume Creating a Culture of Accessibility in the Sciences (25 chapters, 200+ citations) and her years at BALANCE for Blind Adults, assistive technology instructor, community engagement lead, accreditation lead, social enterprise team member, and now pre-employment specialist running a five-week Zoom-based program for adults entering or re-entering the workforce. She closes with her hopes for a postdoc co-designing care research with young adults aged 18 to 35 living in long-term care, and a call to embed anti-ableism into the curriculum of every profession that touches disabled lives, teachers, social workers, nurses, doctors, speech-language pathologists. TRANSCRIPT Advertisement: This podcast brought to you by Pneuma Solutions. Advertisement: I can't see it. Advertisement: ADA Title II has a real compliance deadline. April 2026. Public entities are required to make their digital content accessible, including websites, PDFs, reports, applications, and public records. If a document cannot be read with a screen reader, it is not compliant and if it is not compliant, blind people are still being denied equal access. For a clear explanation of what the rule requires, visit www.title2.info. It's one of the leading resources explaining what agencies must do and when. This message is brought to you by Pneuma Solutions, we have remediated hundreds of thousands of pages in days, not months or years, aligned with WCAG 2 AA guidelines at a fraction of traditional costs. Accessibility isn't a privilege, it's a right. Now that you know, ask your agencies a simple question, are your documents actually accessible? Podcast Commentator: Greetings, Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA invites you to listen to her bi-weekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills and expertise in access, technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary. I am Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly through sound, through touch and stubborn optimism. I am a law graduate, accessibility consultant, author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind. You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November 2010, I won the landmark charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian, not just recited ones. And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disabled disability groups to turn equal access into federal law. And most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Late Majesty's Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers. When I'm not in a courtroom or in a committee room or in a pottery studio, you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in plain language. Everything I do circles. One goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench, where policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas. Now, before we jump into today's conversation, let me shine a spotlight on today's guest, a change maker whose work is as every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build. I am pleased. I am proud and I am privileged to introduce to you Elizabeth Mohler. But when I first met her, I knew her as Chelsea. So I hope I do not miss and call her Chelsea. Elizabeth. Welcome. Elizabeth Mohler: Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here. Donna. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Good. I always knew that you would be going places. My dear. From the first day I met you, I thought this is our future. And here she is. She's graduated with her PhD and let's get going. So, Elizabeth, you were born with congenital glaucoma and grew up in Brockville, Ontario, before your family relocated to Toronto in the 1980s to access services. Can you take our listeners back to those early years and tell us what that journey was like for you and your family, and how it shaped the person that you would become? Elizabeth Mohler: Yeah, for sure. So my family and I left Brockville in 1987, so I would have been two. So I guess now everybody knows how old I am. That's right. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Look what you've done. Elizabeth Mohler: That's right. Yeah. At the time, the community living movement was starting to blossom. You know, deinstitutionalization conversations were happening. But we, my family, I think, knew at the time that the services we would need as a family were going to be in Toronto. So things like Holland Bloorview shout out to Holland Bloorview. I volunteer with them. The hospital for Sick Children. Schools for the the blind as well as other resources. My family sort of unit is comprised of myself. I'm the youngest and I live with almost total blindness. I have two brothers that live with dual diagnosis that are non-verbal. And I have a couple of stepbrothers as well as my brother Kyle and then my, my parents so we're quite a big family. And so I think, you know, when we moved here in Toronto in the early 90s, like late 80s, really, it was thinking about services. So getting connected with you know, a preschool for the blind things like orientation and mobility. And then later, you know, going, moving from an integrated school where they certainly did their best with programming. But knowing that there was needs and supports outside of the classroom that I would need. So that's where w Ross McDonald came in. So I, I went to started w Ross McDonald in grade five really to gain expanded core curriculum skills. So like daily living skills, extracurricular activities, music, things I couldn't maybe gain in a community school in the same way, at least back then. And so that was a really big moment that kind of shaped who I was. I discovered a love for swimming and sports athletics running track and field, trampoline music. You know, I sang in choirs and really began to sort of find myself and who I was. And I stayed at w Ross McDonald until the end of OAC. Again, I'm dating myself. Because that no longer exists. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Go ahead. Elizabeth Mohler: But after that I, I went to Laurier, Brantford, which is a small campus of the main Wilfrid Laurier and Waterloo. At the time I went there was just under 500 students and I was the first student with vision loss. So, you know, I, I think kind of thinking through the years, I think one thread that for me has always been really important is finding my own voice and dependence you know, being able to be a trailblazer. Certainly being the first student with sight loss at Wilfrid Laurier in Brantford, you know, I was really instrumental in some of their early accessibility conversations and was proud to do that. So I'll, I'll leave that there. But yeah, I think definitely the opportunity to go to a specialized school for, for me was instrumental in helping me become the person I am today. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And you said that you attended W Ross MacDonald school for the blind. Starting in grade five. Elizabeth Mohler: Correct? Yes. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: For those listeners who may not be familiar with that school, can you describe what that experience was like and how it influenced your education and your sense of identity as a young person with vision loss? Elizabeth Mohler: Yeah, absolutely. So W Ross MacDonald is a, is a school for the blind, where folks generally will come during the week and stay in a, in a lodge or a dorm because people come from all over the province of Ontario. I think at one point it was maybe all over Canada, but I, I think that's no longer. And so really the idea, besides getting a full academic suite of courses is that you're developing skills like life skills like orientation and mobility. You're also with peers that also have have some degree of vision loss. So there's a shared understanding. So it really for me was a place where I found community. You know, I still have some of my closest friends from the school. I think it really helped shape my confidence. You know, when I went to university and I was living in a dorm, it was interesting because in some ways I had more skills than my my sighted classmates who were coming in who maybe had never cooked before or done laundry. I think, you know, for me, again, it really helped me find who I was build community. I think that whether people decide to stay in their local school or whether they decide to attend a specialized schools, very personal. And I think both are right at different times in a person's life. And I think for me, what made it right was just knowing that there's things that my family couldn't necessarily teach me, that I needed to learn to be independent. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So you learned to cook while you were at W. Ross McDonald. Elizabeth Mohler: Exactly. Yes. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. I'll have to try this out one of these days Elizabeth Mohler: Exactly. Yes. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Something that really struck me about your story is that you have two brothers who are blind and also live. Live also live with nonverbal autism and other diagnoses. Now, this gives you a perspective that very few people in our field have, and this makes you understand disability both as a person living with it and as a caregiver. How has that dual experience shaped the way you approach your advocacy and your professional work? Elizabeth Mohler: Yeah, it's a really important topic. So we know that 1 in 4 Canadians right now is going is, is taking on caregiving work. And that's, that's continuing to grow as, as our population ages and lives longer with more complexities. I think what we don't talk enough about is caregivers who themselves have disabilities. I think sometimes there's a binary when we think about caregivers you know, there's the person over here receiving care and there's a person over here giving care and in, you know, in my PhD work, which we'll talk more about, I trouble that assumption. Because I don't think there's this dualistic caregiver care receiver. I believe we all give and receive care. You know, somebody might be providing physical care to somebody, but that person might make their, their care provider smile or they're, you know, providing financial support to their care provider. You know, I think that there's, there's a lot of work that needs to be done to really look at what we mean by care. And so one of the things that I find is, is challenging in some caregiving spaces is there's not room for caregivers with disabilities. We don't talk enough about it And we should, because we know that the population is aging into disability and more and more disabled people are going to find themselves in caregiving roles. And I think that part of the conversation that needs to happen is really, how do we support caregivers who themselves have access needs? So I provide a lot of support you know, not day to day, but sort of on a more administrative level for, for my brothers. And that's something that when I talk about in caregiving spaces, it's it's interesting to have conversations around what access for a caregiver could look like. So I think it's definitely shaped kind of the things that I become passionate about and that I talk about and study. You know, I think, I think sometimes we conflate providing a service with providing care and I see carers a lot more holistic and something that we all are giving and receiving. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think it's quite another not, I shouldn't say undertaking, but, you know, a very challenging environment to be in. Right. Elizabeth Mohler: Yeah. For sure. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Your academic path took you from a Bachelor of Arts in Contemporary Studies at Wilfrid Laurier University to a Master of science in Occupational science at Western University, and ultimately to a PhD in health and rehabilitation sciences, all on a prestigious four year's SHC doctoral fellowship. What a mouthful. For our listeners who may be blind or partially sighted and considering graduate school, what was it like navigating post-secondary education as a person with a visual disability. And what kept you going through all of those years? Elizabeth Mohler: Yeah. I think that, you know, when we think about post-secondary, one of the things that, you know, I always like to talk to folks about is really thinking about understanding, having a really good understanding of what your access needs are, whether it's technology, whether you know, you need a tenant care or sighted guide, because most people aren't going to know unless they're in our field what those needs are and being able to really articulate those needs. I think what's unique about graduate school is that it isn't just what you do in the classroom. In fact, a doctoral level, you're only in your classwork for the first year. Maybe you go to seminar for a couple of additional years, which is essentially once a month, you get together with your colleagues and you talk about your work and you read emerging scholarship and sort of, you know, canonical scholarship in the field and talk about it. But essentially you're out on your own doing, writing, doing research, going to conferences. So you really need to think about your accommodations in terms of like what you're going to need in the classroom, but also what you're going to need beyond that to be successful. So Donna mentioned the four year Social Science Humanities Research Council doctoral fellowship. That's an award that Masters and PhD students can apply for to help fund their research. Elizabeth Mohler: So it's an external it's through the federal government, through something called the Tri-council agencies. So there's a web portal you apply through that portal. And then if you're successful, then you, you receive a scholarship directly to your post-secondary institution. That process for me was not accessible. Back at the back at the time I applied, this was six years ago just for context. They had a lot of drop down menus in their application that jaws wouldn't read. There was a couple of CAPTCHAs, however. One of the things I did early on was I found an email, which is very hard to do on some of these websites you know, government websites and finally connected with somebody. And I was part of a pilot to try and improve the accessibility of the Tri-council application funding application process. So I was pretty, I was pretty pleased to be a part of that. So I think the thing that I always say to students is there's a lot of invisible work that goes into being a disabled student, and you need to pace yourself and you need to have community because I think a lot of the times we feel like we have to fix everything and we feel, we feel like we're kind of we're working to work. I have a colleague and friend who's always saying, we're working to work. Elizabeth Mohler: And I really like that saying because it's all the things we have to do just to work. So I think you really need a community of support around you or a coil of support. I like the coil metaphor because it's multi-layered. It's multifaceted. It speaks to the different levels and layers of support in your, in your life. And I think that's really important to have that support. I also think it's important to acknowledge the emotional labor that students with disabilities take on. But there is, you know, and I think that, and I think that those things are important. And I also think it's, it's really important to recognize that there's also opportunities for leadership. Like these are all skills. When you're talking about yourself as a student that you can, you can position as leadership skills, as, you know, change management skills as presentation skills, as advocacy and activism skills and experiences. So I think it's really important to think about everything you're doing in terms of your skills, because you are going to, you are going to be drawing on those for your whole life. But really to make sure that you build a community around you, that you reach out and ask for help, there's nothing worse, you know, than getting to the end of a semester and realizing that if you'd had accommodations, things would have worked out. Elizabeth Mohler: So asking for help right away being proactive and it's okay if you don't know what you need. Like when I went into my PhD, we were required to be a TA and I didn't know how I could proctor. I didn't know how I could do a scantron. So I wrote a letter to my dean who's lovely. Shout out to Doctor Shannon Sebold. Explaining here are the things I think I can do. Here are the challenges that I foresee as a TA. I'm really excited about the opportunity to be a part of the learning community at Western. And I'd like to talk with you about whether we can, can work out a placement. And I listed the things I could do. I could run seminars, I could you know, mark essays, I could mark presentations. So I think it sometimes isn't always about thinking about, you know, what the barriers are, but where are there opportunities and solutions and coming armed with those when you're, when you're speaking to people, whether it's your department chair, your dean, whether you're speaking to accessibility professionals and just being open because you're not going to know what you're going to need right away necessarily. So having those continuous conversations about your accommodations. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, just listening to you really fascinates me in that all of this is not for the faint of heart. You've got to be a go getter. You've got to be able to go out there and, and roll with the times. It's not for the person who is going to sit in the corner and expect everything to be given to them, right? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You have to go out there. You have to forge paths. You have to you literally are on your own a lot of the time. And, and your, your, I wouldn't say your job, but it's, you know, you have to convince the sighted world that, hey, I am vision impaired, but you know what? I can do it. Elizabeth Mohler: Right. Absolutely. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Admire anybody like yourself who has been able to go out there, get your PhD, and now, man, you're our future. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No. So your doctoral research examined how Ontario's direct funding program shapes the way that disabled persons access attendant services, and how service users resist and negotiate those structures. Can you explain for our listeners what direct funding is all about and why it matters so deeply to people with disabilities, and what the research uncovered about how the system actually works in practice? Elizabeth Mohler: Yeah, absolutely. So Ontario direct funding. So here in Ontario, there's a program called Ontario Direct Funding which essentially gives individuals with physical disabilities who qualify and are approved money to recruit and hire and train and onboard their own personal support workers or attendants. So it was really direct funding is based off the heels of the independent living movement in the 60s and 70s, which asserted that people with disabilities wanted to have control and autonomy over their own care. And so many centers for independent living around the world exist to promote that. So my work actually used something called critical discourse analysis, which really looks at how language and power are interconnected, how language is used to shape how we might look at a phenomenon or a concept like disability, and the ways in which equity and justice are reproduced or not through discourse and text. So critical discourse analysis sort of falls on the heels of discourse analysis of linguistics. And uses a lot of critical scholars like Norman Fairclough and Michel Foucault, Michel Foucault, who I took up in my work, as well as Shelley Tremain, who are kind of critical scholars that look at power. So my work actually ended up I didn't actually, for my project talk to service users of the program. I looked at program texts, specifically 51 program documents that were acquired using a strategic search strategy. And then took each document through an analytic guide and then built for discursive threads based on the results of the analytic guides. After I'd put them into an Excel spreadsheet and looked across for themes and threads. So for discursive threads emerged, which really had to do with one that's my favorite is a term that I coined called chrono normative citizenship, which really kind of, when you break it down, chrono time normative and then citizenship. Elizabeth Mohler: So this really talked about how disabled people are expected to conform to a very able bodied notions and structures of time and how people are expected to break down their care routines and show exactly how much time they're going to need for their care routines in ways that can be very invasive, and specifically looking at how time is used as a governing mechanism to a lot or control care and how people, you know, how techs really look at producing time as you know, the, the less time you need for your care, the better. So very much, you know, in line with sort of capitalist notions of like, you know, we don't, we don't want people taking too much or using too much from the system. You know, I'm kind of really putting this into plain language, but I really like the way that this notion of time operated through my dissertation. So I, I really found for, for my dissertation, I was fascinated with the methodology of critical discourse analysis. I really wanted to sort of understand what was happening in these texts. As someone that lives with a disability and has done quite a bit of work in this field. I'm always fascinated by how disability is produced and reproduced through language, how we see disability, how disability is constructed. And I really wanted to explore that. So that's kind of you know, in a nutshell, what my, what my PhD looked at. And it emerged over time, I was in the beginning going to talk to service users and attendants of the program. But as I dove into my coursework and really started to ask deeper questions, this, the critical discourse analysis was sort of the methodology that I chose to, to carry out my work. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. I don't know what else to say here. Now in 2016, you and Doctor Mahadeo Sagi, I hope I'm pronouncing his name correctly. Co-authored a landmark book published by Elsevier called Creating a culture of accessibility in the sciences. That is a 25 chapter volume that has been cited over 208 times, including in publications like Nature Reviews Chemistry. What inspired you to write that book, and why is accessibility in Stem such a critical issue that needed a resource of that scale? Elizabeth Mohler: Yeah. So at the time I was working with Doctor Tzu Chi at the National Educational Association of Disabled Students, and we were working on some practical guides that could be used for faculty and teaching assistants around how to support students with disabilities in science labs and in other practical spaces. So when I say practical spaces, I mean co-op placements, work placements, work integrated learning. You know, the Mahadeo is, is a geneticist and has a lot of experience, extensive experience in science and was really interested in this topic. I was interested more from the perspective of the practical spaces piece. I had applied to a professional program in 2012 or sorry, 2010 that I got into, but ultimately decided not to pursue because at the time the, the program chair was very concerned about how would carry out the co-op placements of someone who was blind. And so at the time, I didn't sort of push, I just applied to ultimately to Western where I did my master's. But that was what sparked my interest in co-authoring the book. And also hearing many stories through my work at the National Educational Association of Disabled students from students with disabilities navigating sort of the practical spaces that accompany the classroom learning. Elizabeth Mohler: So that book really came out of you know, those, those conversations. And I also want to acknowledge there was many contributors as well to the book who wrote about their own experiences in quite a lot of detail. So it was a wonderful way to connect with different faculty. So I think, I think why it's important is I, there's a lot of, I think we don't know what we don't know. And I think the book does a really nice job of unpacking. What are some of the concerns around being in the lab? We have a lot of conversations in the book around bona fide essential requirements. So, you know, what is the ultimate requirement of a course of an assignment? Can it be done in only one way? If so, why? If not, why not? So there was a lot of conversations around disclosure, which is another topic that I've written extensively about. So I think it was an opportunity to talk about Stem or now we would say Stem science, technology, engineering, arts and math. But also to talk about these conversations more broadly. And it really, I think, sparked my interest in disability activism in writing. And ultimately the career path I took. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. Balance for blind adults in Toronto has been a real anchor in your career. You have held so many roles there as assistive technology instructor for one community. Community engagement lead as an accreditation lead, social enterprise team member, and now pre employment specialist. Can you walk our listeners through what balance does and why that organization has been so important to you personally and professionally. And I do remember the late Tom Dekker. That's how I met him through balance. Elizabeth Mohler: Yeah. Absolutely. So balance for blind adults is not for profit here in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. That provides support to adults living with who are blind or living with low vision or partially sighted in a range of areas. So balance has a large assistive technology program, so providing supports to individuals who wish to learn whether it's a screen reader or magnification or learn how to use their laptop for work. Our assistive assistive technology program is, you know, available in person to folks that live in Toronto and then Ontario wide to folks who are outside of Toronto and want remote lessons or able to have remote lessons. Balance also provides orientation and mobility as well as adaptive daily living skills, but also has a large suite of group programs, including a strength and stability class a number of programs to do with mental health support. So there are two social workers that have lived experience of disability who run peer support programs and individual counseling. So that's a huge part of what balance does. You know, of course, there's the pre-employment program, which is the program I run. And ultimately that program aims to provide individuals that want to start looking for work, the skills to do so. Elizabeth Mohler: So we prepare people to start looking for work, to think about starting to work with an employment service provider. Our curriculum is really built around helping individuals get to know themselves, get to know their skills, learn the technology that they're going to need to be successful in the workplace, as well as connect to community resources and employment service providers. So our program is a five week program. It's on Zoom. And individuals who are thinking about entering the workforce, or maybe re-entering the workforce that want to build some of those pre-employment skills. You know, are welcome to join the program right now. It's in the GTA, but we're hoping to expand the program. I think for me, one of the things that I love to see is somebody that comes in is unsure of what they want to do as, as an individual living with blindness or partial sight. And then at the end of the program has a really good sense of the path they want to take. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: His balance, a provincial organization or national. Elizabeth Mohler: Yeah. So right now, balance for blind adults offers in-person support in, in Toronto for orientation and mobility, assistive technology, adaptive daily living skills, as well as our groups that we have. We have a number of groups Ontario wide for mental health supports. So that would be, you know, our peer support program called Sharing Spaces, as well as counseling, individual counseling, and then assistive technology. So those are the two supports that are offered sort of province wide and they would be remote offerings. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Is balance planning to go national one day? Elizabeth Mohler: I don't know. You'll have to stay tuned. No. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I always I've always wondered this, you know, like you offer a plethora of services and you know, it'll be nice to see you go national one day. Elizabeth Mohler: Yeah, absolutely. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, as an assistive technology instructor at balance. Okay. You know, tell us about some of the things that, that you've, you've done and, you know, things that you would like to see continue on. Elizabeth Mohler: Yeah. I've taught, you know, a lot of people who are new to whether it's an iPhone or a smart home device or a laptop. New to it as somebody with sight loss. So they might have, they might have used technology prior to sight loss and then they're coming back to it. I think for me, what I love is those moments where somebody gets really excited, they see the potential of technology, they are starting to understand how they might use it in their daily lives, or they've gone from sort of being afraid of making a mistake to recognizing that they can troubleshoot their way out of a mistake. What I love to see is the excitement because there is so much potential, as we know, for technology use not just for folks with disabilities, but more broadly. And I'd love to see conversations happening where people are really excited about the technology that they're using because it is a game changer. We know that technology is a game changer for for our community. Absolutely. But again, it comes back to being able to talk about our technology, what we need and understand how, how what we need you know, is impacted in our daily lives. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Elizabeth, if you could dream and look forward to the future, I know that one of the things that that really bothers me or concerns me or something I'm continuing to work on is access. Access to online education, online exams. What are your thoughts on this? Elizabeth Mohler: Yeah, the online world and we we saw this during the pandemic really opened up opportunities for people to engage with whether it's post-secondary, whether it's employment, whether it was you know, volunteer or training opportunities. I think one of the. Yeah, for sure. One of the biggest barriers remain sort of accessibility to, to content. I feel hopeful, though. I think there's a lot more conversations, whether it's because of the Accessible Canada Act or here in Ontario. You know, we know that the the Aoda has been around for 20 plus years, and there's still a ways to go, but I am seeing more conversations. So, for example, at Western where where I just finished my PhD, there's been a lot of conversations around how to build accessibility into course content online, into classroom design, into learning module design. So I'm starting to see those conversations and I'm hopeful. And I think a lot of it is, is really thinking about taking a universal design approach. So building things in from the start that are going to impact and benefit everybody. I do think that online learning, like Open University, for example, is a, a great, a great resource for people that want to take any number of courses online and you can do it from anywhere. But I think, again, it's important to recognize that, you know, online learning is one approach and it works for some people and not for others. So I, I think that it's really about thinking holistically about the learner and about the learning experience. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Because one size does not fit all. It doesn't mean because you or I, you know, are able to deal with a cell phone, for example, that Eleanor next door should be able to do the same. You know, like she may be afraid, she may she may be saying to herself, oh, this is not for me. It's too intimidating. Right? Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So with the clock winding down, my final question to you is this what are your hopes and dreams for the future with regard to a education? And I think you've answered a lot of that before and be accessible services for those needing it. Elizabeth Mohler: Yeah. We'll start with the education. My hopes and dreams for the future. I'd like to apply for a postdoc. You know, within a disability studies program or one adjacent to a health and rehab science program. I'd like to do some co-design work to look at the experiences of young adults. So 18 to 35 with disabilities residing in long term care, and how individuals that are residing in these spaces who are young adults might reimagine their care and how those individuals share their care story and how we can learn from their care stories. So doing some co-design work with that community. And we're seeing there was a report that came out from the Ontario Ombudsman in December that talked about the number of young adults with with physical disabilities in long term care, as well as intellectual disabilities. And it's a population that's very near and dear to my heart because of my own family and something I want to explore. So I will be applying for postdocs and you know, hoping for a positive outcome in terms of accessibility for services. Like I think it's such a broad question, but I think what I would say is I wish that there was more. And I'm glad to see some, but I hope it continues education around disability, around systemic ableism, institutional ableism within post-secondary curriculum. So whether that's in education for teachers, whether that's for social workers, whether that's for nurses and doctors and speech language pathologists. So not just looking at this contract construct of disability as something that needs to be fixed or cured, but really embedding sort of anti ableism work into curriculum. And that's what I'm passionate about and that's what I hope to see. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now. Do you think your your future studies would, you know, have you stay in Canada or do you think you might have to travel across the pond? Elizabeth Mohler: Great question. I definitely plan to stay here in Toronto. I have my community here, my coil of support here, and I love Toronto. But the wonderful thing is, you know, there's a number of post-secondary institutions, obviously right here within Toronto, but also, you know, adjacently close. So if I had to take a train, it wouldn't be wouldn't be too bad. I mean, I commuted to London during my my PhD and it wasn't too bad. So yeah, that's my plan for now. I think I'll be staying staying in Toronto. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But what if someone offered you a golden opportunity to study across the pond? Would you go? Elizabeth Mohler: Great question. I hadn't, you know, not one I'd thought of. I think I'd have to consider. There's a lot of factors to consider with, with moving anywhere and yeah, I would have to really look at the opportunity and you know, the, the length and just where I'm at in my own, my own career journey. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But you're not adverse to, to really, you know, like, if you were given this wonderful opportunity and I know that, you know, there's so many other factors for you to consider. Would you go? Elizabeth Mohler: I might, yeah, I might. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Elizabeth, this has been a very fascinating interview and one where I'm hoping and I know that our listeners would be very much encouraged, motivated to reach for the stars because you've reached for the stars, you've done it. You're on your way. You are future. You keep it up. And it was a pleasure, real pleasure having you. Elizabeth Mohler: Thank you for having me, and I hope you have a lovely rest of your day. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You too, and good luck with your board interview tonight. Elizabeth Mohler: Thank you. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay, take care now. Elizabeth Mohler: Bye bye. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bye bye. Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.

30 Apr 2026 - 41 min

Remarkable World Commentary Episode #87: Interview with Blake Steinecke, Product Marketer, Public Speaker, Inclusive AI, Blind Athlete

🎙️ Remarkable World Commentary Episode #87: Interview with Blake Steinecke, Product Marketer, Public Speaker, Inclusive AI, Blind Athlete | Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-04-29-2026/ [https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-04-29-2026/] In this candid episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna sits down with Blake Steinecke [https://www.linkedin.com/in/blakesteinecke/], marketer, accessibility leader, and forward on the United States blind hockey team, to trace his journey from a sighted San Marcos, California teenager to a rising young voice in digital accessibility. Blake walks listeners through the summer before his junior year of high school, when slight blurriness in one eye turned into a Leber's hereditary optic neuropathy diagnosis and the loss of his central vision in both eyes; the steep, often vulnerable learning curve of assistive technology, VoiceOver, JAWS, Braille, a CCTV magnifier, while keeping pace academically; graduating high school above a 4.0 and earning his Bachelor of Science in Business Administration cum laude from Cal State San Marcos a semester early; and his path from software sales and contract accessibility testing into a growth role at an e-learning startup tackling the roughly 70% unemployment rate among working-age blind adults, where he helped drive a 200% increase in marketing qualified leads. In the second half, Donna and Blake dig into the science of marketing accessibility, why companies must obsess over the problem before pitching a solution, why walking the walk beats talking the talk, and what scrappy, community-driven outreach to a blind audience actually looks like. Blake reflects on his San Diego County Board of Supervisors proclamation, his 2024 session on reaching the blind community through marketing at the world's largest assistive technology conference, and how the U.S. blind hockey community raised the bar for what he believed possible after his vision loss in a moment when he was trying to lower it. He closes with a preview of his new role as Digital Accessibility Lead at ServiceNow, life as a husband and father of a nine-month-old, and the philosophy he carries into every room, "seek to understand", which he tells Donna is the bridge from misunderstanding to the kind of connection, innovation, and solutions accessibility actually needs. TRANSCRIPT Advertisement: This podcast brought to you by Pneuma Solutions. Advertisement: I can't see it. Advertisement: ADA Title II has a real compliance deadline. April 2026. Public entities are required to make their digital content accessible, including websites, PDFs, reports, applications, and public records. If a document cannot be read with a screen reader, it is not compliant and if it is not compliant, blind people are still being denied equal access. For a clear explanation of what the rule requires, visit www.title2.info. It's one of the leading resources explaining what agencies must do and when. This message is brought to you by Pneuma Solutions, we have remediated hundreds of thousands of pages in days, not months or years, aligned with WCAG 2 AA guidelines at a fraction of traditional costs. Accessibility isn't a privilege, it's a right. Now that you know, ask your agencies a simple question, are your documents actually accessible? Podcast Commentator: Greetings, Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills and expertise in access, technology and information. As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary. I'm Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly through sound touch and stubborn tech optimism. I am a law graduate, accessibility consultant, author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind. You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November 2010, I won the landmark charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian, not just a site in ones. And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law, and most recently, in June of 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Late Majesty's Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers. When I'm not in a courtroom or a committee room or in a pottery studio, you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in plain language. Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our work, our shared workbench where policy meets lived experience and lived experience, sparks fresh ideas. Now, before we jump into today's conversation, let me shine a spotlight on today's guest change maker whose work is every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build. Blake Steinecke, welcome to my podcast, and I'm looking forward to the next hour with you. Blake Steinecke: Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Great. So let's get started. Welcome to the show. And you grew up in San Marcos, California, with full vision. And then at age 16, right before your junior year of high school, everything changed. Please take us back to that moment when you first noticed the blurriness in your right eye. And please walk our listeners through what happened next. Blake Steinecke: Absolutely. So I grew up with perfect vision. And during the summer before my junior year of high school, I noticed a very slight vision loss in one eye. I thought nothing of it, but just in case. Wanted to go to the doctor. Right. And they noticed something was wrong and had to do more tests. And over the course of a few months with more doctor's appointments, all sorts of tests. My vision in one eye got worse, but they said it'll probably go away. So I thought, you know, it's probably fine until I did end up getting a diagnosis. It test did come back positive. Which is called leber's hereditary optic neuropathy or Lhon. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Blake Steinecke: And in that moment, I knew I would become legally blind and lose my central vision. But as a 16 year old in high school. I had no idea what that meant. I was quickly flooded with lots of questions, of doubt, of how could I keep up in high school? How could I go to college as an athlete? How could I play sports? Could I be in a relationship? Could I get married, have a family? All these questions came flooding through my head. That I would then have to face as vision loss ended up happening in the other eye. A couple months later and progressed worse as I continued to navigate through those things. But it was definitely a emotional and journey and also very logistical, practical thing to, to navigate while simultaneously going through high school and into college. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I guess at age 16, my goodness, what a terrible year to pick for, for this to happen, right? Blake Steinecke: Yeah, it's, there's, there's never an ideal time. And I'm thankful for the childhood and life I had with horrific vision. And it's a crazy time to adjust to vision loss, but it also allowed me to evaluate and set up my adult life, knowing or knowing what I would be dealing with in adapting for it, which I think was very helpful in ways. Although it would have been nice to hit a pause button on certain areas of life. Take more time to adjust. It's. Sometimes you drink from the fire hose and figure it out as you go. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh gosh. Now, when the doctors confirmed your diagnosis of Leber's hereditary optic neuropathy. Well you know, my goodness, I hope I pronounced this right. Lou hon, and told you that there was no cure and that you were going to lose your central vision permanently. How did you process this as a teenager? What was going through your mind about your future? Blake Steinecke: Yeah, there's definitely a lot going through my mind and a lot of doubts and uncertainties. But I also think just a lot of shock too. You don't really have a framework for how to process these things, as you never expect something like that to happen, especially at a young age. Screen Reader: And notification from outlook. Blake Steinecke: I think there's definitely elements of getting the illusion of control that we think we have over our lives, taken away from us, and realizing that there is. Screen Reader: Notification from. Blake Steinecke: A very thin veil between ability and disability or even life and death. Not that this was a a deadly situation, but at all. It's more so felt like a death to my independence. As I, you know, I mentioned those questions a doubt before. Like I thought my independence was done. I thought that just a lot of this life would not be very fun, exciting at all, as there's a lot of subconscious stereotypes I had towards disability that I then had to put on my on my self. And I think it was really valuable and important to have friends, family and church community around me that could help me just process remind me of the hope that I do have in these hard times. Navigate knowing how to find joy amidst it. But it was definitely very challenging. And it takes years of processing, accepting. And it's also just, I'm, to this day, in ways processing that news as going through visual loss is something I, I, you, you never arrive. It's always a new area of life to navigate it. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I can just imagine. I mean, I am legally blind, but to have this happen to you at that, you know, at such an age, age 16, I think, my goodness, I, I. Now you are to wrap it. Sorry you had to rapidly learn assistive technology. Screen readers keyboard shortcuts essentially to rebuild how you interacted with the world while still being a high school student. What was that learning curve like for you, and what do you wish that someone had told you at the start of that journey? Blake Steinecke: Yeah, I would definitely say it was a steep learning curve, but I don't even know if that does it justice. I started out just by, you know, I needed a new phone. And so I got an iPhone knowing that Apple products were more accessible and just messing around with the Magnification features Siri. Starting to use VoiceOver more, and I also got a Mac desktop for the similar reasons, but then when it came to school, I. During my senior year, I met for an hour every day with a teacher for the visually impaired while classmates of mine were getting out of school early with a free period, I was staying and learning. I did learn Braille. I don't use it much, but I was learning how to use jaws magnification tools. And a lot of it was really self-taught or having support in the self-taught process as my teachers for visually impaired were so tremendously helpful and supportive, but they didn't have other students using jaws in this context or it's also just if you don't use it yourself, it can be hard to, to teach as well as a lot of the websites or programs I needed to use, like weren't very accessible at all. And a, yeah, that's like a whole other conversation, but it would be a lot of just taking way longer on assignments, learning how to get my teachers to send me materials ahead of time. It was super vulnerable and nerve wracking to bring out my Refreshable Braille display, a different type of laptop. Blake Steinecke: Probably the biggest thing was like my CCTV magnifier. Like all these things are very embarrassing, just vulnerable to bring out in class when no one else is using it. And you can just definitely be insecure about it. So there's definitely a social aspect to it. And also a homework takes longer late nights trying to just like look up and figure out better tools to use. So it was really hard. And But something I. I work hard at and I think something I wish I knew is I was told at the start is like technology is probably the most important skill to learn. I remember being told like learning to advocate is one of my biggest goals, which I think that is going to take the top of the list. But in terms of like just other tangible skills in what will take me the furthest will be technology. And also maybe even on top of that too is it's, it's a technical thing to learn, but it's probably even more an emotional journey of something to figure out. It's humbling when doing these incredibly rudimentary typing lessons where I'm like, what, what am I doing here? Learning this basic, like kids typing program. And then you're like, oh, because I'm so frustrated trying to memorize all these shortcut keys and so on. And you learn how there's accessibility barriers and it's all incredibly frustrating and can be very emotional. And so I think like having that heads up at the start would be super duper valuable. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, just listening to you, Blake. I, I, I'm sort of having visions of this teenager being hit with so many things from so many directions and having the will to do it and not give up. You know, I, I sure admire how far you've come and what you've done. I mean, like, I, I don't know what else to say, but, you know, I guess it's like for me, it's an analogy to swimming in the ocean and you have big waves coming at you, you know, that there are sharks out there, you know that they're not too many people around you. You can't swim very well. I mean, oh my gosh. Oh, Lordy. Blake Steinecke: Yeah. Living in San Diego by the beach. That's quite an analogy. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Yeah. Blake Steinecke: But but I would add on to that too. I think what motivated me a lot at the start was trying to act like the sighted version of Blake while simultaneously trying to prove people wrong. And I think that got me far, but was really grounded in insecurity and fear as well. And I, it was like, it did get a good outcome of like having me quickly adapt. And yes, there was like lots of good motivators of like, I value working hard and I think of myself as a curious, adaptable person. But I think there were those motivators there, as well as I give such huge, tremendous credit to the people around me family, friends, teachers that when I thought I should lower the bar, they were like holding it where it should be. And that was like such a big influence and something I'll probably share more on later. But just wanted, wanted to give a little more context there. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Despite everything that you were dealing with, you graduated high school with a GPA of about above 4.0. Then you went on to earn your Bachelor of Science in Business Administration from Cal State San Marcos with a 3.7 7GPA, which is a cum laude, I'm a first semester early. As someone who fought for accessible education through the courts. I have to ask you, Blake, what were the biggest barriers that you faced in the classroom and how did you push through them? Blake Steinecke: Totally. I could spend such a long time talking about this, but I would say digital accessibility barriers were were one of the biggest barriers. And I think that shows up tangibly in a software that I had to use that wasn't accessible with my screen reader. But at a higher level, just like the, the systems of navigating working with the disability support service office to get my accommodations and tests scheduled with them for having a longer time or a reader and working with the IT department to get my course materials converted and with my professors to make sure I got the materials I need from them. And there's probably all sorts of other people in that process. It's really hard as a student with a disability to have that part time job added on. I'll call it. And a story. I could give an example too, of some of these barriers I faced were there was one class that I submitted the first assignment and I got a 50% on it and realized, oh, like this requires a lot of formatting that I was missing and just accessing the textbook with jaws. And it was a hard class, very stringent grading. And then the first test comes around and I set the curve on the multiple choice. And there's this dilemma of I like know the content, but I couldn't access part of the assignment. Blake Steinecke: So I got a bad grade. And then I learned, okay, I need to get my this textbook on a PDF. I need to go so I can zoom in and see the formatting better on my computer or, and I need to go to my professor's office hours. And then the next assignment, I got 77%. Last assignment, I got 100%. So it goes to show that it's not like my intelligence that's severe. It's the tools and accessing things that can be the barrier and those can be adapted to meet my intelligence. I'll call it extra work. And it's hard when there's things like that that could impact your performance. Or there was two classes I, I got season because I never could get the online homework in program to work with my screen reader. And this in more recent years, like they've there's more requirements to where you have to have like accessible software for all students. But if you don't have that in place, it'll have a big impact on grades, performance and all other things. So lots of work arounds, lots of again, late nights trying to figure out best tech setup that I could use for driving at school. And then another conversation is then navigating my disability, my technology when doing internships and jobs while in college. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, Blake, just listening to you here, I'm, I'm thinking, you know, you must have gotten a lot of motivation from having graduated one term early, right? You knew that you had the guts to keep on going. You knew that you had the intelligence and you did keep on going. You know, and a lot of what you're talking about here, I think still exists with with any blind or visually impaired student going through university. But it's it's amazing that you have managed to weather all of these storms and look at where you are today. Blake Steinecke: So yeah. Thank you. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You're very welcome. And I mean it, I mean, like, as someone myself who in my own way has had to go through a lot of hoops to get where I've wanted to go. I sure admire anyone like yourself who, you know, you came from something unexpected that happened to you. And my gosh, I don't know what else to say. Yeah. Occlusive. You went from a contract marketing consultant to an accessibility manager to growth manager, and you She achieved a 200% increase in marketing qualified leads. Exclusive is an E learning platform. That that is tackling the roughly 70% unemployment rate among working age blind individuals. Individuals. Tell us about that mission and how was that marketing work? Directly supported it. Blake Steinecke: Totally. So my background has been across marketing and accessibility roles, and I started after school doing a software sales role. I did a marketing role for a mountain biking gear company. I started a YouTube channel about assistive technology and did some accessibility testing contract roles, which was able to help me pivot to into this role that I had an exclusive, and it was a great experience where I got to bring together my marketing and accessibility background and get to work for a mission that I'm very passionate about, especially around education, as we have been discussing, is an area I feel strongly about for accessibility. And marketing was a very cool place that I was able to help further that mission. And we just reached the blind community through marketing. Marketing isn't always an area that you hear about in accessibility conversations outside of maybe content accessibility and make marketing things accessible. But when it comes to mission driven startups and organizations like inclusive, it's really at the core of how are you at the core of the success of the business of how are you reaching your customers, telling the story, growing the mission. And so I think it was neat to be in that role that is uniquely cross-functional. Especially when it comes to like communicating the product, being able to have lived experience and understanding of it is really valuable. As you have to be tactful of how do you speak to the community and just effectively go about your marketing there. So that's just like a little bit of how that role was. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I will tell you, Blake, I am, I am not very good at marketing and thank God for Aaron, who we both know very well. I, I try to stay away from marketing, but marketing is a part of our daily lives, isn't it? Blake Steinecke: Totally. It's what you're doing on this podcast right now. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: That that's true. You know, when you think about it, every little thing you do is marketing, right? Blake Steinecke: Yes, absolutely. I think it's a helpful reframe, like looking at so much of your life experience. It's been about influencing, making change, telling stories, advocating. And that's like so much about like what marketing is about. But sometimes we can think marketing is just advertising or something, but it's, it's a lot more than that. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Absolutely. Now, one thing that stands out in your career is your unique experience, not just in your lived experience. You sit at the intersection of product marketing, communication, and accessibility in a way that very few people in this industry do do. How do you see that combination of skills making a difference for the companies and communities that you work with? Blake Steinecke: Yeah, it's been a unique combo that I've stumbled into, and I think something that really jumps out at the crossroads of a lot of that experience is the value of communication in this space. From one of some of my first roles in accessibility really emphasized that whether it was at fable, doing user interviews and usability testing was all about communicating and explaining my experience or with doing testing with the Blind Institute of Technology. Mike has always talked about bringing examples and it's all about how you can best communicate things. But if we zoom out more looking at marketing a lot. There's so many people in organizations that have these amazing missions. And they, these, the work that they're doing is, at the end of the day, it can only be good as the people they reach or are only as good as those who know about it. And so and it's also a field that can be difficult to communicate it, and it has to be made understandable to people. And that is all something that marketing can play a role in. We could also look at it at the angle of marketing is what can help drive leads and revenue and grow the business. And there's so many people that are in accessibility because of the, the value that they're passionate about it. And that it's also there's also this angle that businesses need to grow and to thrive and to make money. Blake Steinecke: We're not, we're not just in it for the money. But you need to be able to drive business growth if we want to make a difference within all these organizations were involved in. Hopefully that that makes sense that I'm trying to communicate there. But it just, I guess it just goes back to like, how are you driving business value accessibility? This could be a conversation of a accessibility services company that's trying to get clients. It could be, how are you communicating the value of accessibility internally in a large company? Lots of different angles to look at it. It also can be a very abstract or challenging area to figure out. And there are playbooks in ways, but there's also I would highly recommend having like a growth marketing or a like scientist mindset in terms of run the scientific method, test things, see what works it, evaluate the results and adjust accordingly. And that's just like one of the most valuable ways of looking at it. But accessibility, as so many people talk about, it's it's not one person's job, and it requires the effort across teams and all sorts of people and marketing and communications at a higher level. It's able to work cross-functionally to bring people together to make things understandable, more understandable to more audiences, which I feel like makes it such a powerful driver of success for accessibility and disability inclusion. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, a lot of people, and I am I am one of those, you know, we sometimes fail to really understand the science of marketing. There's a definite science to it, a different philosophy to it and a very, you know, a successful person is one who listens to what the market wants, not what you want to give to the market. Blake Steinecke: Right? Blake Steinecke: Yeah, that's a super good point. And I think it's I'm trying to think I'd explain this like there's the, the problem and, or the solution that you can communicate to people, right? And sometimes in accessibility, we can communicate just a solution or just the problem. And contextually those two things are very different depending on the audience, the person. And I think we really have to get more obsessed with the problem to, to create better solutions. That's where we could maybe see issues if maybe an able bodied person or a sighted person is, is making a sighted solution for a blind person. If I, if I may use some of those terminologies, but I think truly understanding the problem, knowing how to speak to that problem And then allows you to, to more properly, like bring in a solution. Hopefully that makes sense. I can try to give more examples, but just kind of spoke to me with, with your response there. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think my philosophy is for every problem, there is a solution. And former Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has always said, you got to make it better than possible. And for me, that philosophy continues to work. Now, you have presented at the season Assessing Assistive Technology Conference. Okay. The largest event of its kind in the world. In 2024, you presented your session focused on how to reach the blind community through marketing. This something that I am very, very passionate about as well. What do you think are the biggest mistakes companies make when trying to market to people who are blind or visually impaired, and what should they be doing instead? Blake Steinecke: Yeah, I'll split this between companies that specifically are trying to target the blind community, like in assistive technology company, for example, and then maybe just more broadly, tech companies or any company that's not accessibility first. I'll call it if we go more on the like assistive tech route. I think that this, it just can be so challenging to figure out reaching the blind community And there are so many different like marketing tactics you can do. Blake Steinecke: And I think that there's an opportunity for companies to be a bit scrappier with how they go about their marketing to reach the blind community. There's a big challenge of you can't just like run Facebook or YouTube, Google ads that target screen reader users or people who are blind. It's, it's not a thing. You can do things such as place advertisements within a podcast email newsletters, YouTube channels, collaborate on content PR to collaborate with these audiences that are already curated and targeting the blind community is like one angle of where you kind of have to be scrappy and also connects to the point of being very community driven. Since it's hard to find these audiences, you have to work hard to build and own your audience. Yes, this is a lot harder and takes a longer term play. But building your audience, building your email list, creating community virtually or even in person is super duper valuable. Those are like a couple marketing tactics I see. But zooming out a little more, I think it's a, a market research challenge or opportunity of, you know, there, unfortunately, there's plenty of assistive technology companies that we see come and go. And sometimes, you know, we can get the pattern recognition and see, I don't think this company will last. Blake Steinecke: And there could be various reasons for it. But I think it goes back to the market research point of No, there's there's a blind community want this, need this. Can they afford it? Is there maybe another app or service that already does this well enough? Like what? What is the value of it? I think like asking those questions and understanding before going to market is super valuable. And then also like continually having that like feedback looped back into your product development. So you're continuously improving. And at the end of the day, if you develop a good product, you're going to be able to leverage word of mouth which as we know, is the biggest thing for getting word out in the blind community. So those are a couple like challenges, opportunities I see for assistive tech companies. And looking at just bigger non accessibility first companies. I think, yeah, there's one angle, there's various angles of this conversation. One is recognizing, excuse me, people who are blind or have disabilities. They're they're out there. There's more than you think. And they want to buy your stuff, but they won't buy your stuff if it's not accessible. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Blake Steinecke: If you are doing this great work to make things accessible, like please, please, please talk about it, people, we want to know about it. Blake Steinecke: And then, you know, there's a right and a wrong way of going about it. So if you are figuring this stuff out, like hire people with disabilities and incorporate them into the process for how you're going about these things. I think about like a big example, but Apple has done so much to improve the accessibility of their products. I, there's representation in some of the media they put out I think about the song remarkable. They recently put out and, you know, I've bought so much money, I, I bought some, I bought so much Apple, so many Apple products, spent a lot of money, and then I turned into an Apple Advocate to my friends and family. Because if a person who's blind finds something they like, they want to tell people about it. So there's like a, a referral effect that you have. So I think if you are making things accessible. Talk, talk about it, do storytelling around it create resources that will, you know, whether it's like a screen reader guide tutorials, I think is super valuable and speaks super strongly to people like me that want to know how my technology may work with it. And I would also look at getting involved with any of the blindness organizations in your area just to start learning, partnering, sponsoring, supporting just to get to support the work they're doing and see how you can align your brand with theirs as Collaboration is key in this space. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think a lot of companies could be guilty of not being patient enough when it comes to understanding what accessibility means, why it is important, and how to move forward with it. And you have other companies who pretend to be maybe the word pretend is a very abrasive word, but, you know, they come out here and say, well, you know, we are experts in accessibility. And at the end of the day, they're not really they're not really experts. You know, we deal with all this. Yeah. Blake Steinecke: I totally it's hard. And I think that's where. Blake Steinecke: You know, I think some of what I was saying could be taken multiple ways. When I say like talk and show what you're doing, I think it's don't just like talk the talk like walk the walk. And can you give us examples of where you're walking the walk? Right. If your product isn't there and accessible, like then don't worry about how you are marketing to the blind community and beyond. It's, it's an internal conversation. But please do like the market research part of like understanding the community's. Screen Reader: Needs. Blake Steinecke: When developing those products. And that will always then be feeding into the communications later on and how you're then reaching that community. But we want to hear more clearly from the people that are actually walking the walk. And people will flock towards that if you aren't, it's not like a, a jab, but just know where you're at in the process and areas to improve. And we're all here to celebrate the progress. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well said. Now the clock is starting to turn, you know, wind down on me. But here comes a very favorite question of mine, because I think we're both very passionate about hockey. I'll tell you a little bit about me. I played on a mixed team of girls and boys or men and women, but my career lasted just three games because on the third game, I was belted right across the rink by a big guy, and I when I got up, I said, you know what, Donna? It's time to leave. So you are a forward on the United States blind hockey team, and you have been representing your country for more than seven years. I understand that you initially dismissed the idea of blind hockey when you first heard about it. What changed your mind and what has the sport given you that you did not expect? Blake Steinecke: So I grew up playing multiple sports. Roller hockey was one of them. And when I heard about blind hockey, I was skeptical. I thought it was slow, boring, that people were probably weird, and I didn't want to do it. But there was an event that wasn't far for me to travel to. And so I went to it. I checked it out. And so I could more accurately assess it. And I remember just going into the locker room and realizing, wait a second, like these people are just like me. This is like any other hockey, hockey locker room. And playing the game, I realized these were the adjustments I needed. But felt like the same game I was used to. And just quickly fell in love. And I joke with people that half the reason I play blind hockey is just for the community. I would argue that that percentage is higher than that. In all honesty, because really the biggest thing, I think it gave me a community that raised the bar for what I thought I could do after my vision loss in a time where I was trying to lower it. Blake Steinecke: And it also gave me an environment where I could learn how to adapt and overcome adjusting to my vision in an area that was fun. So that I could apply that mindset. I was learning into areas that weren't as fun or more challenging, or kind of going back to some of the more vulnerable challenges I was sharing earlier. So I'm so thankful for that community. It's brought me the mindset that it's shaped. And yes, it's fun to, but those other things are so much more important. And I have a lot of conversations like this that will revolve around hockey. And I'm so glad to get to share on all the other things we covered. Because hockey is what has fed into all those other areas that are so much bigger, more important, more challenging. In all honesty. So that's a bit of my journey with hockey. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I think, you know, like getting into hockey has certainly, you know, like enhanced and expanded your mind, your experiences, your confidence, my goodness, you know, and you received a formal proclamation from the San Diego County Board of Supervisors recognizing your advocacy for inclusion and accessibility. You have spoken at K through 12 schools at your alma mater business college and accessibility training. When you stand in front of a room full of students, full of students or professionals and share your story, what is the one thing that you most want them to walk away? Understanding about? Blindness is all about. And what is possible. Blake Steinecke: One of the things that jumps out across a lot of presentations is to seek to understand. I think that it's a high level philosophy of mine that has come from my lived experience, where I have navigated a lot of being misunderstood and deeply desiring to be understood. So I think on a personal level yeah, seeking to understand upon, on top of that, like, I think it's, it's being curious. And asking good questions. I think questions are the are, are the bridge that travels across misunderstanding to understanding. And when it comes to things professionally of how do you approach accessibility? How do you make products that are accessible and inclusive? I think it starts with seeking to understand the experiences, the challenges, the life of people with disabilities. And it's a never ending journey of seeking to understand the problems and trying to understand affect effective solutions. So I think this is something that is both personally practical professionally impact so many areas of accessibility and really can just create a lot of strong connection and just innovations and solutions in these areas. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And my final question, Blake, what's next for Blake? Where are you going? What are your hopes and dreams? Blake Steinecke: Totally. Yeah, it's, first of all, it's crazy to reflect on all that has happened in my life. And, you know, I'm still young, and I couldn't imagine what all that already has happened in spite of so many doubts. To have the things that I have doubted is, is very powerful. But what's next for me? I just started a new role as a digital accessibility lead at ServiceNow, and I'm excited to grow at my career professionally within a larger tech company and experience what that's like and apply a lot of the experience that I've gained so far. And in the future, we will see what all happens, but excited to just continue to grow as a husband, as a dad of a nine month old and figuring out life beyond that. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, I think our future is brighter just listening to you. You are one of our leaders for the future, for now and for the future. I, I have a lot of hope in you. I have high dreams for you. I've never met you. And I hope that one day I do get to meet you. Blake Steinecke: Absolutely. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well, congratulations, Blake, on all that you've done, all that you've accomplished. It's not been easy. And, you know, a husband, a dad. Now you have the opportunity to help shape the future of your little one, right? Blake Steinecke: Totally. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. So I want to thank you for having taken the time to be on our Remarkable World Commentary podcast. And if you know you want to contact me offline, please do not hesitate. In the meantime, thank you again for having given us this interview. I think it's an inspiration for anyone who may be sitting there saying, well, I'm not sure. I don't know where to go or whatever. You're it, you've done it and you're doing it. So congratulations again and thank you again. Blake Steinecke: Of course, I appreciate the opportunity, Donna. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. We will talk offline. And you have a good rest of the day and good luck with your new job. Blake Steinecke: Thanks. Have a great day, Donna. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Thank you. Now, bye bye. Blake Steinecke: Bye bye. Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com. Until next time.

29 Apr 2026 - 48 min

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