EP 89: Two Women, One Narcissist: Deana & Lizzie's Harrowing Journey Through Abuse, Lies, and Healing

EP 92: Holy Disobedience: Sex, Sin, and Secrets, and Healing From Abuse with Melissa Duge Spiers

In this episode of That's Where I'm At, host Laura speaks with Melissa Duge Spiers, an award-winning essayist, screenwriter, and advocate for survivors of religious and narcissistic abuse. Through her writing, memoir Holy Disobedience: Sex, Sin, and Secrets in the Biggest Church No One Knows, and her online platforms, The Glory Whole, Melissa shares her personal journey of healing while helping others recognize and recover from religious trauma. Her work has been featured in The Huffington Post, and she is also a contributor to Take the Fruit: An Anthology of Religious Trauma. Melissa opens up about growing up in the cult-like Seventh-day Adventist Church, where teachings centered on submission and self-abandonment left her vulnerable to abusive relationships. She reflects on how religious programming shaped her decade-long narcissistic marriage and a subsequent toxic relationship before discussing the healing she found through therapy, supportive online communities, and writing her memoir. Together, Laura and Melissa emphasize that leaving abuse is only the beginning, and that lasting healing comes through ongoing self-discovery, reclaiming your voice, and learning to trust yourself again. Key Topics & Timestamps Guest Introduction (00:01:28) Laura introduces the guest, Melissa, an award-winning writer and advocate for survivors of religious and narcissistic abuse. The Biggest Church No One Knows (00:02:53) Melissa discusses the Seventh-day Adventist Church, a fundamentalist Christian organization she describes as cult-like and surprisingly large. Leaving the Church vs. Healing (00:05:36) Melissa explains that leaving the church at 18 was not the same as healing from its programming. Repeating Religious Patterns (00:07:01) Melissa describes how the church's teachings on submission and obedience led her into abusive relationships in her secular life. Suppressing Emotions (00:09:57) Melissa and Laura discuss how their high-control religious upbringings taught them to suppress "bad" feelings like anger. The "Fake" Persona (00:13:35) Melissa recalls being called "fake" because she was out of touch with her feelings, a result of childhood self-abandonment. Learning About Boundaries (00:15:56) The conversation covers the difficulty of learning and practicing boundaries after decades of people-pleasing and being called "difficult." Documenting Survivor Stories (00:17:20) Melissa explains how she began documenting survivor stories of abuse within the church, which eventually aided a lawsuit. The Healing Power of Sharing (00:19:05) Melissa and Laura discuss the validating and healing experience of holding space for other survivors and sharing their stories. Discovering Her Father's Abuse (00:22:23) Melissa shares the story of learning her pastor father was an abuser and how she connected with one of his victims. A Dangerous Partnership (00:25:49) Melissa recounts her decade-long, controlling marriage to a man with Cluster B personality disorders, which felt familiar after her upbringing. Discovering Narcissistic Abuse (00:28:18) Melissa explains how she learned about narcissistic abuse online during Covid, finally putting a name to her partner's behavior. Coercive Control Tactics (00:34:10) The discussion turns to specific manipulative tactics like feigning panic attacks and using sleep deprivation to maintain control. The Sleep Talking Manipulation (00:36:10) Melissa describes how her ex-partner would say cruel things in his sleep and then deny responsibility when confronted. Deprogramming and Escaping (00:43:09) Melissa details how therapy and online communities helped her deconstruct her trauma and finally leave her abusive partner. Life After Abuse (00:48:16) Melissa and Laura talk about the glorious process of getting to know themselves and finding freedom after leaving abusive relationships. About the Book: "Holy Disobedience" (00:50:31) Melissa describes her memoir, which covers leaving her religion, realizing its programming led to abuse, and her healing journey. Leaving Doesn't Equal Healing (00:53:28) Melissa emphasizes that leaving an abusive situation is just the first step; conscious, ongoing work is required for true healing. Powerful Quotes from the Episode Melissa, "I had left at 18. As soon as I was an adult, I was out of there, and I just thought naively that leaving equaled healing." Melissa, "High-control religions teach you to not trust your gut. Your doubts are from the devil." Melissa, "It is just a jaw-dropping, stomach-dropping moment when you realize, 'Oh my God, there's a name for this.'" Melissa, "My therapist was like, 'This is your chance. You have been given a gift by being kicked out. Do not take him with you.' And I was just like, 'Oh, I can do that.'" Melissa, "Leaving does not equal healing. That's leaving a religion, a relationship, or a toxic family. It doesn't matter." RESOURCES: COACH WITH LAURA: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura [https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura] YOU'RE NOT CRAZY ebook: GET IT HERE [http://laurarichpodcast.gumroad.com/l/notcrazyebook] MARRIED TO A "NICE" GUY: GETTING OVER NARCISSISTIC ABUSE: SHOP HERE [https://www.amazon.com/author/laurarichards] JOIN THE NICE GUY RECOVERY COMMUNITY: https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517 [https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517] FOLLOW MELISSA: SUBSTACK: https://substack.com/@melissadugespiers [https://substack.com/@melissadugespiers] BOOK: https://www.lakedrivebooks.com/books/holy-disobedience/ [https://www.lakedrivebooks.com/books/holy-disobedience/] INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/the.glory.whole/ [https://www.instagram.com/the.glory.whole/] TIK TOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@theglorywhole [https://www.tiktok.com/@theglorywhole] YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/@theglorywhole3831 [https://www.youtube.com/@theglorywhole3831] "Leaving is the first step. Healing begins when you learn to trust yourself again." Podcast Produced and edited by the team at ResilientVoiceMedia.com [https://resilientvoicemedia.com/] Contact us for expert podcast production and support.

EP 91: What Does True Healing from Betrayal Really Look Like? with Dr. Debi Silber

In this episode of That's Where I'm At, host Laura speaks with Dr. Debi Silber, the world's leading expert on betrayal recovery, founder and CEO of the Post Betrayal Transformation (PBT) Institute, and a PhD researcher whose work has transformed how we understand the impact of broken trust. Drawing on research involving more than 100,000 people across 50+ countries, Dr. Debi has identified groundbreaking discoveries about betrayal recovery that have helped individuals, coaches, leaders, and organizations move from pain to transformation. A two-time TEDx speaker, bestselling author, award-winning speaker, and host of the From Betrayal to Breakthrough podcast, she has dedicated her career to helping people rebuild their lives after betrayal. Together, Laura and Dr. Debi explore the profound emotional, physical, and psychological effects of betrayal, discussing how broken trust can shatter identity, relationships, and overall well-being. Dr. Debi shares her own deeply personal journey, which inspired her PhD research and the creation of the PBT Institute, and explains the five stages of betrayal recovery. Throughout the conversation, she offers practical insights, hope, and encouragement, reminding listeners that while betrayal can change you, healing is possible through willingness, intentional rebuilding, and transformation. Key Topics & Timestamps Podcast Introduction (00:00:34) Host Laura introduces the podcast, its purpose for women healing from narcissistic relationships, and the importance of sharing stories. Introducing Doctor Debi Silber (00:01:23) Laura introduces guest Doctor Debi Silber, detailing her extensive credentials and expertise in betrayal recovery and post-betrayal transformation. How Doctor Debi Started Her Work (00:03:46) Doctor Debi shares her personal story of betrayal by family and her husband, which led her to pursue a PhD. The Decision to Share Her Story (00:06:22) Doctor Debi discusses the terror and vulnerability of sharing her personal betrayal story publicly, starting with her TEDx talks. Defining Betrayal (00:09:44) Betrayal is defined as breaking a spoken or unspoken rule and is unique from other traumas because it requires rebuilding yourself. Why We Don't See Betrayal Coming (00:14:30) Doctor Debi explains that betrayal is deceptive by design and discusses how people intentionally or unintentionally turn down their intuition. Resilience vs. Transformation (00:18:54) Using a house analogy, Doctor Debi explains the difference between resilience (restoring) and transformation (rebuilding something entirely new) after trauma. Rebuilding Yourself with Intention (00:21:18) The opportunity after betrayal is to intentionally rebuild a new version of yourself, even changing small, self-critical habits. The Window of Willingness (00:22:58) A four-level framework to determine if it's possible to rebuild a relationship with the person who betrayed you. Rebuilding Trust in Yourself (00:28:46) Betrayal shatters our ability to trust our own judgment, so rebuilding self-trust is a crucial part of the healing process. Powerful Quotes from the Episode Dr Debi, "I have no idea if I can heal from this, but if I can, I'm taking everybody with me."Laura, "I'm speaking for that woman who was me, who was dying. If she didn't hear that there was hope on the other side, she was going to die because I literally wanted to die."Dr Debi "You don't even want to get back to who you were, because that version of you may have been tolerating what you no longer are willing to tolerate."Dr Debi, "I was so critical. I would never say to anybody else what I would say to myself."Dr Debi, "Even though it happened to you, it's not about you. Stop blaming and shaming yourself." RESOURCES: FOLLOW THE PODCAST: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/ [https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/] INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/ [https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/] COACH WITH LAURA: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura [https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura] MARRIED TO A "NICE" GUY: GETTING OVER NARCISSISTIC ABUSE: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/book-store [https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/book-store] JOIN THE NICE GUY RECOVERY COMMUNITY: https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517 [https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517] FOLLOW DR DEBI: WEBSITE: https://thepbtinstitute.com [https://thepbtinstitute.com/] INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/debisilber/ [https://www.instagram.com/debisilber/] YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/debisilber [https://www.youtube.com/debisilber] "Betrayal may break your trust, but it doesn't have to define your future." Podcast Produced and edited by the team at ResilientVoiceMedia.com [https://resilientvoicemedia.com/] Contact us for expert podcast production and support.

EP 90: Healing Trauma and OCD with Bravery: Lucia Severtson on the Brave Women's Community Center

In this episode of That's Where I'm At, host Laura speaks with licensed psychotherapist, creative arts therapist, and Brave Hearts Speak podcast host Lucia Severtson, founder of The Brave Women's Community Center, a trauma-informed, arts-based nonprofit dedicated to helping women and girls heal from abuse, reconnect with their inner voice, and reclaim their power. Drawing on her background in psychotherapy, theatre, dance/movement therapy, and the creative arts, Lucia shares her deeply personal journey through OCD, a traumatic health scare linked to birth control, and the lasting impact of narcissistic abuse. She opens up about how severe insomnia and suicidal thoughts led her to seek specialized OCD therapy, ultimately transforming her life. Inspired by her own healing journey, Lucia created The Brave Women's Community Center to provide therapeutic improv, storytelling circles, empowerment workshops, and other trauma-informed programs that help women move beyond survival and rediscover joy, creativity, and purpose. Throughout the conversation, she and Laura explore the power of community, creative expression, and self-compassion in the healing process, reminding listeners that bravery isn't about being fearless—it's about showing up, reclaiming your voice, and embracing a life filled with hope and authenticity. Key Topics & Timestamps Guest Introduction (00:01:30) Laura introduces Lucia Sivertsen, a psychotherapist and founder of the Brave Women's Community Center, specializing in arts-based therapy. Lucia's Journey into Therapy (00:02:35) Lucia explains her work is rooted in her personal history, including her family of origin and a 2019 OCD episode. Health Scare and OCD Onset (00:03:12) Lucia details a severe health scare from birth control, leading to weight loss, insomnia, and an intense OCD episode. Suicidal Thoughts and Seeking Help (00:05:41) Lucia describes how severe sleep deprivation led to suicidal thoughts and the realization that her mind, not her body, was sick. Finding the Right Therapist (00:07:25) Lucia shares the relief of finding a therapist specializing in OCD and the sadness of accepting her brain disorder diagnosis. Women's Healthcare and Medical Abuse (00:08:56) The conversation shifts to the poor treatment of women in healthcare, particularly regarding perimenopause, framing it as a form of abuse. A Painful Doctor's Visit (00:14:21) Lucia recounts a shaming, invalidating experience with a nurse practitioner who dismissed her suffering and called her crazy. Healing Through Exposure Therapy (00:16:55) Lucia explains how Exposure and Response Prevention therapy saved her life and taught her the true meaning of being brave. Narcissistic Abuse and Self-Worth (00:18:18) Lucia realized her family history of narcissistic abuse caused deep-seated negative beliefs about herself, feeling like she was "nothing." Creating the Brave Women's Community Center (00:22:48) Lucia was inspired to create a safe, non-competitive space for women to heal and find their own embodiment of bravery. The Power of Creative Arts in Healing (00:25:10) Laura and Lucia discuss how trying new creative activities helps rebuild neural pathways and heal the brain after trauma. Building a Safe Community (00:30:06 Lucia describes creating a safe, non-judgmental environment where women can overcome fear and reclaim their creativity without pressure to perform. Storytelling Circles and Therapeutic Improv (00:35:12) Lucia explains her podcast's origin and her therapeutic improv workshops, which use play and writing to facilitate storytelling and healing. The Courage to Heal (00:39:13) The discussion covers how abuse erodes courage and how small, brave acts, like decorating a home, are vital steps forward. Finding Lucia and Her Work (00:43:56) Lucia shares where listeners can find her online, including her website, social media channels, and upcoming creative writing courses. A Year-Long Theater Program for Survivors (00:45:32) Lucia announces a grant-funded, year-long theater program in Denver for women survivors to create and perform their own show. Powerful Quotes from the Episode Lucia, "I think something clicked for me where I started to realize, 'I don't think my body is sick. I think my mind is sick.'" Lucia, "What I was looking for all my life that I didn't realize I wanted was to be brave." Lucia, "I don't have to make my drive in life being safe." Lucia, "I just wanted to be a fuller human being, and I wanted to help other women do that because I knew I wasn't the only one." Lucia, "I wanted to find them, and I wanted to be able to provide them with an actual way to embody bravery." RESOURCES: FOLLOW THE PODCAST: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/ [https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/] INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/ [https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/] COACH WITH LAURA: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura [https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura] MARRIED TO A "NICE" GUY: GETTING OVER NARCISSISTIC ABUSE: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/book-store [https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/book-store] JOIN THE NICE GUY RECOVERY COMMUNITY: https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517 [https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517] FOLLOW LUCIA: WEBSITE: www.bravewomenscommunity.com [http://www.bravewomenscommunity.com/] INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/bravewomenscommunity/ [https://www.instagram.com/bravewomenscommunity/] FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/bravewomenscommunity [https://www.facebook.com/bravewomenscommunity] LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucia-divieste-severtson-5055351b6/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucia-divieste-severtson-5055351b6/] LISTEN TO BRAVE HEARTS SPEAK PODCAST: https://open.spotify.com/show/27zFc8gBQICTTK33wn3NUh?si=e626fbc4fa86438a [https://open.spotify.com/show/27zFc8gBQICTTK33wn3NUh?si=e626fbc4fa86438a] "True bravery isn't fearlessness; it's showing up for yourself, one step at a time." Podcast Produced and edited by the team at ResilientVoiceMedia.com [https://resilientvoicemedia.com/] Contact us for expert podcast production and support.

EP 89: Two Women, One Narcissist: Deana & Lizzie's Harrowing Journey Through Abuse, Lies, and Healing

In this episode of That's Where I'm At, host Laura sits down with Deana, Lizzie, and Jane—three women whose story sounds like a Lifetime movie, but every word of it is true. Deana and Lizzie were both married to the same narcissistic man, "Rex," who led a double life while leaving a trail of emotional, financial, and sexual abuse behind him. After discovering the truth and connecting with one another, they tracked down his secret girlfriend to warn her, choosing solidarity over silence. Together, they share how Rex's charm masked years of manipulation, discuss the red flags they wish they had recognized sooner, and explain how they broke free from self-blame to transform their pain into purpose. The conversation concludes with practical advice for anyone questioning whether they're experiencing narcissistic abuse, along with an introduction to their podcast, Surviving Toxic Relationships with the Matadors, where they continue helping others recognize abuse and find hope through shared experiences. Laura's co-host for this episode is Jane. Jane is the ex fiancé of my ex husband. They spent two years together, and we all hung out together in college. She's here to give her perspective of being with the same narcissist I was, and also her experience with narcissistic abuse in other relationships in her life. Key Topics & Timestamps The Likelihood of a Second Toxic Relationship (00:00:00) Women who have been with a narcissist are more likely to end up with another one, who may appear different. Podcast Introduction (00:00:33) Host Laura introduces the "That's Where I'm At" podcast, a space for women to share their stories and heal. Trigger Warning (00:01:22) A brief announcement warns listeners that the episode's content may be triggering and advises them to take care. Introducing the Guests and Their Story (00:01:30) Laura introduces guests Deana and Lizzie, who were married to the same narcissist, and co-host Jane, an ex-fiancée. Deana's Story: Meeting "Rex" (00:03:00) Deana shares how she met her ex-husband, "Rex," at 17 and married him quickly despite early red flags. Deana's 27-Year Marriage (00:04:24) Deana describes her 27-year marriage, marked by her ex's sexual addiction, financial abuse, gaslighting, and manipulation. Ignoring Red Flags (00:06:37) The group discusses seeing red flags early on but being too naive or in survival mode to act on them. The Trauma Bond (00:10:08) Laura explains how intermittent reinforcement and abuse create a trauma bond, making it difficult for victims to leave. Lizzie's Story: How She Was Wooed (00:11:21) Lizzie explains how Rex charmed her by helping with her four sons, a different approach than he used with Deana. Lizzie's Marriage and the Turning Point (00:14:28) Lizzie describes her six-year marriage and how things got weird after a great summer, leading to her leaving him. Financial Abuse and Reaching Out (00:15:21) Lizzie discovered her credit was ruined and reached out to Deana's son to let him know she was leaving. Should You Warn the Next Person? (00:17:55) The women debate the difficult decision of whether to warn a narcissist's new partner, who may see them as crazy. Jane's Perspective (00:20:21) Jane, the ex-fiancée of Laura's ex-husband, shares her experience and the red flags she now recognizes from their relationship. The Narcissist's Need for Attention (00:22:37) The group discusses the narcissist's constant need for female attention, possibly stemming from a "mother wound" or self-centeredness. Connecting Deana and Lizzie (00:25:08) Deana recounts how her son encouraged her to contact Lizzie, leading to a conversation that connected the dots for both. The Healing Power of Validation (00:27:01) Laura and Jane discuss the profound healing that came from speaking with someone who experienced the exact same narcissist. Discovering Wife Number Three (00:29:50) Deana and Lizzie found out Rex was dating another woman while married to Lizzie and felt compelled to find her. Finding and Warning "Jane Doe" (00:31:20) Deana describes the months-long search for the other woman and the phone call where she revealed Rex's double life. The Aftermath for Wife Number Three (00:35:12) The third wife, Jane, connected with Lizzie, realized the extent of the deception, and had Rex served with annulment papers. What Attracted Them to the Narcissist (00:38:43) The women reflect on their own vulnerabilities, like low self-esteem and a need for love, that made them susceptible. Healing Journeys: Gratitude and Journaling (00:49:07) Lizzie shares how journaling and focusing on daily blessings helped her heal and change her mindset during her grief. Healing Within the Relationship (00:51:06) Deana explains her healing began before the divorce by focusing on her own growth instead of trying to fix him. Changing the Narrative (00:54:28) Jane discusses how she had to change the internal narrative that everything was her fault to begin her healing process. Why They Started a Podcast (00:55:58) Deana and Lizzie decided to share their story publicly to help other women after discovering Rex's extensive deception. How Narcissists Keep Track of Lies (00:57:20) The group discusses how narcissists manage multiple relationships, often by using generic pet names like "sweetie" for everyone. The Importance of Taking Your Time (00:58:32) Deana notes that her children learned to be discerning in their own relationships after witnessing their father's deceptive behavior. A Word of Caution for Survivors (01:02:35) Deana advises survivors that trauma can skew their perception, causing them to see red flags even in healthy relationships. Where to Find the Guests (01:03:49) Deana shares where listeners can find their podcast and social media channels, "Surviving Toxic Relationships with The Matadors." Powerful Quotes from the Episode Lizzie: "It's hard to keep turning your head on someone that is speaking a language in a season of your life that speaks to you in all the right places." Deana: "Once it happens to someone else who you know is a wonderful person, you're like, 'Okay, it's not just me. I was right.'" Deana: "I finally got the epiphany that I could not change him to make myself okay, because that's what I was working on." Jane: "The main thing was I had to change the narrative that I would always run through my head because I would always make it my fault." Jane: "Knowing I am not the crazy one, it's not just me overreacting. This is actually happening." RESOURCES: FOLLOW THE PODCAST: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/ [https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/] INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/ [https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/] COACH WITH LAURA: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura [https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura] MARRIED TO A "NICE" GUY: GETTING OVER NARCISSISTIC ABUSE: SHOP HERE [https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/book-store] JOIN THE NICE GUY RECOVERY COMMUNITY: https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517 [https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517] FOLLOW Deana & Lizzie: Website: survivingtoxicrelationships.org [http://survivingtoxicrelationships.org/] Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/survivingtoxicrelationships/# [https://www.instagram.com/survivingtoxicrelationships/#] Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556560386678 [https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556560386678] YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@survivingtoxicrelationships12 [https://www.youtube.com/@survivingtoxicrelationships12] Surviving Toxic Relationships Podcast with The Matadoras: https://open.spotify.com/show/66AjWdW7dMB7qBHcqje8GW [https://open.spotify.com/show/66AjWdW7dMB7qBHcqje8GW] "Healing begins when the truth replaces the lies and survivors choose each other over silence." Podcast Produced and edited by the team at ResilientVoiceMedia.com [https://resilientvoicemedia.com/] Contact us for expert podcast production and support.

EP 88: Recognizing and Escaping a Narcissistic Abuser in a Christian Marriage with Liberty Steele

In this episode of That's Where I'm At, host Laura welcomes Liberty Steele, author of Redeemed Years: From Narcissistic Darkness to Light. Believing she was entering a Christ-centered marriage, Liberty instead spent six years trapped in a relationship marked by narcissistic abuse, emotional manipulation, subtle physical abuse, and isolation. She shares how love bombing, inadequate support from church counselors, and the misuse of religious teachings kept her trapped, while her abuse was repeatedly dismissed as postpartum depression. After finding freedom, healing, and experiencing the joy of a healthy marriage, Liberty now shares her story through her book and her platform, Shine From Your Shadows, to help others recognize abuse, know they are not alone, and find hope for a brighter future. Key Topics & Timestamps Guest Introduction: Liberty Steele (00:01:29) Laura welcomes Liberty Steele, who shares her story of surviving a narcissistic marriage and finding freedom, healing, and hope. The Isolation of Abuse in a Church Community (00:02:23) Liberty explains why she shares her story, highlighting the isolating experience of abuse within a church community. Inadequate Church Counseling (00:04:23) Liberty describes receiving unhelpful advice from church counselors who prioritized reconciliation over her safety, even when she was locked out. Subtle Physical Abuse (00:05:27) Liberty details the subtle physical abuse she endured, like random biting and spanking, which intentionally crossed her established boundaries. Misinterpreting Scripture on Divorce (00:06:23) The discussion covers how scripture, particularly "God hates divorce," is often misconstrued to keep women in abusive relationships. The Dangers of Uninformed Counselors (00:09:08) Laura shares a story about a pastor whose uninformed counseling led to a woman being murdered by her abusive husband. Meeting on a Christian Dating Site (00:12:00) Liberty recounts meeting her ex-husband on Christian Mingle, where he mirrored her desires and engaged in love bombing. Early Red Flags and Ignoring Intuition (00:15:14) Liberty describes feeling uncomfortable with the rushed physical intimacy on their first meeting but dismissing her gut feelings. Moving and Mom's Premonition (00:20:05) Liberty moved across the country for him within five months, despite her mother's strong sense that something was wrong. Extended Premarital Counseling (00:22:06) Counseling lasted nearly a year due to significant issues, including his escalating temper, which was wrongly attributed to PTSD. The Bait and Switch Proposal (00:25:01) He proposed, then used the counselors' advice to "check in" with his ex-wife as an opportunity to cheat. The Honeymoon Incident (00:29:25) The honeymoon began with him raging at her on the plane, leaving her sobbing in the hotel bathtub. The Cycle of Abuse Begins (00:34:00) Liberty describes how the cycle of abuse, forgiveness, and forgetting started on the honeymoon, setting the marriage's tone. The First Year of Marriage (00:36:04) The first year was filled with emotional abuse, including withholding affection and giving the silent treatment for weeks. A Story of Betrayal and Isolation (00:38:06) Liberty shares a story of being harassed by a neighbor while her husband refused to defend her, blaming her instead. Compromising to Reconcile (00:42:23) Liberty recounts being forced into a degrading sexual act to end the silent treatment, with little support from counselors. The Problem with Couples Counseling in Abuse (00:44:18) The host explains why couples counseling is dangerous in abusive relationships, as abusers manipulate therapists and continue the abuse. The Impact of Having a Baby (00:50:05) The abuse escalated after their baby was born, disguised as postpartum depression, and included severe sleep deprivation. Writing "Redeem Years" and Finding Hope (00:53:59) Liberty discusses writing her book, which offers a practical toolkit and a story of hope after finding a healthy marriage. Powerful Quotes from the Episode Liberty, "It was such an isolating experience for me. You don't feel quite safe sharing it in your church community, and you're not sure who is going to accept you or support you." Liberty, "I wasn't listening to my gut, my Holy Spirit discretion." Liberty, "I was asking God what was going on. How could this person who just promised to love me my whole life treat me like he hated me?" Liberty, "It even sounds crazy when you try to think of how to describe this kind of torture to other people. You don't know how to describe it in a way that they would think it was actually believable." Liberty, "The grief has taught me how much of a gift real love and real partnership is, and that people shouldn't give up on hoping for it." RESOURCES: FOLLOW THE PODCAST: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/ [https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/] INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/ [https://www.instagram.com/thatswhereimatpodcast/] COACH WITH LAURA: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura [https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/coachwithlaura] MARRIED TO A "NICE" GUY: GETTING OVER NARCISSISTIC ABUSE: SHOP HERE [https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/book-store] JOIN THE NICE GUY RECOVERY COMMUNITY: https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517 [https://www.skool.com/nice-guy-recovery-community-1517] RESOURCES: https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/resources [https://www.thatswhereimatpodcast.com/resources] FOLLOW LIBERTY: WEBSITE: Shinefromyourshadows.com [http://shinefromyourshadows.com/] INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/shine_from_yourshadows [https://www.instagram.com/shine_from_yourshadows] BOOK: https://a.co/d/0fNcZnPX [https://a.co/d/0fNcZnPX] "Real faith never asks you to sacrifice your safety for someone else's control." Podcast Produced and edited by the team at ResilientVoiceMedia.com [https://resilientvoicemedia.com/] Contact us for expert podcast production and support.