[S3EP32] Church Org Charts Explained: 3 Models Every Church Leader Should Know

[S3EP32] Church Org Charts Explained: 3 Models Every Church Leader Should Know

Is your church organizational structure helping your team thrive—or creating confusion? In this episode of the LeadingSmart Podcast, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate discuss why every growing church needs a clear organizational structure. They break down the three most common church org chart models, explain how healthy churches structure their staff, and share practical insights to help lead pastors, executive pastors, and church leadership teams create greater clarity, accountability, and alignment. If your church is experiencing decision-making bottlenecks, unclear reporting relationships, or growing staff complexity, this conversation will help you evaluate your current church organizational chart and determine what structure best fits your ministry. In this episode: * The 3 most common church organizational structure models * When a lead pastor should stop managing every direct report * How executive pastors can reduce bottlenecks * Why "clarity is kindness" in church leadership * How to create an effective church org chart * Why every church organizational chart should be a living document * Common staffing mistakes churches make as they grow * Practical church leadership principles for healthier teams Whether you're a lead pastor, executive pastor, associate pastor, church administrator, ministry director, or leadership team member, you'll gain practical strategies to improve communication, decision-making, and organizational health. 00:00 Org Chart Frustrations 00:14 Podcast Welcome Banter 00:56 Why Org Structure Matters 02:38 Org Chart Clarity Story 04:01 Three Org Chart Models 07:51 Keeping Charts Practical 09:22 Decision Merry Go Round 10:04 Next Steps Resources 10:44 2027 Gatherings Overview 12:00 New Lead Team Experience 15:11 Quick Dinner Segment 17:06 Final Wrap Up Resources Mentioned • Staffing & Structure Webinar https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_N2my7U6lSxG73NtjxHfY-g#/registration [https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_N2my7U6lSxG73NtjxHfY-g#/registration] • 2027 LeadingSmart Gatherings https://www.leadingsmart.com/gatherings [https://www.leadingsmart.com/gatherings] • More church leadership resources: https://leadingsmart.com [https://leadingsmart.com/] 📱 Follow us for more insights and resources Instagram: @timstevens Facebook: @timstevens 💻Visit LeadingSmart.com [http://leadingsmart.com/] Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk [https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk] Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK] Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast [https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast] Download The Simply Strategic Show  https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2 [https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2] 📩 Have questions or want to connect? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk [https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk] 🔔 Subscribe to stay updated on future episodes Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962] Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1IqLLXtvtZBEgRsM2gOXpO?si=8b6cc3d0a1124bdc [https://open.spotify.com/show/1IqLLXtvtZBEgRsM2gOXpO?si=8b6cc3d0a1124bdc] 📲 Enjoying th...

[S3EP31] The 7 Competencies That Expand Leadership Influence

Influence grows when people trust both your character and your competence. Character may open the door, but results, wisdom, initiative, and leadership skill determine how much influence you can carry. In this episode, Tim Stevens talks again with David Whiting (GenerosityOS SVP and LeadingSmart Senior Consultant) about the competency side of growing influence on a church staff team. Building on part one, they unpack why some leaders continue gaining influence while others hit a lid, even when they are faithful, dependable, and well-liked. They also discuss why influence is connected to results, volunteer leadership, internal drive, strategic thinking, and the ability to represent the church well. This is part two of a two-part conversation on influence, focusing on the competencies that help leaders bring value, build trust, and contribute more meaningfully to the mission of the church. Additional topics include: church leadership staff culture leadership influence ministry teams character and competency staff development volunteer leadership strategic thinking church staff trust team alignment decision-making leadership development ministry excellence organizational health leading with wisdom Timestamps 00:00 Welcome back to part two with David Whiting 04:00 The difference between character issues and competency issues 06:00 Why leaders need to understand their competency limits 07:30 Win at your assignment and build trust through results 10:00 What happens when someone is in the wrong seat 11:30 Make it better without weaponizing excellence 14:00 Why volunteers are one of the church’s greatest resources 17:00 Add value in the room with ideas, solutions, clarity, and wisdom 20:00 Why bringing problems without solutions limits influence 22:00 Think ahead and learn to see around corners 25:00 The difference between managing what is assigned and leading what is next 27:00 Succeed with volunteers in a volunteer-driven organization 30:00 Why “I can’t get people to serve” is often a leadership issue 33:00 Bring internal drive, ownership, and initiative 36:00 Represent the church, mission, and leadership with wisdom 40:00 How to speak well for decisions you may not fully agree with 43:00 Using these conversations to help your staff grow in influence 45:00 LeadingSmart Gatherings and final thoughts 48:00 Focus on your character, grow in your competencies, and increase your influence 📱 Follow us for more insights and resources Instagram: @timstevens Facebook: @timstevens 💻Visit LeadingSmart.com [http://leadingsmart.com/] Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk [https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk] Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK] Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast [https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast] Download The Simply Strategic Show  https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2 [https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2] 📩 Have questions or want to connect? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk [https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk] 🔔 Subscribe to stay updated on future episodes Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962] Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1IqLLXtvtZBEgRsM2gOXpO?si=8b6cc3d0a1124bdc [https://open.spotify.com/show/1IqLLXtvtZBEgRsM2gOXpO?si=8b6cc3d0a1124bdc] 📲 Enjoying th...

[S3EP30] 10 Quiet Habits That Grow Your Leadership Influence

Influence doesn't always come from title, age, tenure, or position. Sometimes the people with the most influence are simply the people leaders trust the most. In this episode, Tim Stevens talks with David Whiting (GenerosityOS SVP and LeadingSmart Senior Consultant) about how church staff members can grow their influence in healthy, practical ways. Drawing from David’s years as a senior pastor and ministry leader, they unpack why some people are invited into more conversations and decisions while others feel overlooked, under-appreciated, or left out of the room. They also discuss why influence starts with the things every leader can control: follow-through, honesty, effort, ownership, teachability, loyalty, and joy. This is part one of a two-part conversation on influence, focusing on the character side of leadership before moving into competency in the next episode. Additional topics include: church leadership staff culture leadership influence ministry teams character and competency staff trust decision-making follow-through ownership team alignment teachable leadership healthy communication church staff development leading with humility organizational trust Timestamps 00:00 Introducing David Whiting and today’s conversation on influence 03:00 Why many staff feel under-appreciated, overlooked, or left out 05:00 Why the decision-making room often gets smaller as a church grows 07:00 The difference between character issues and competency issues 09:00 Why influence starts with what you can control 10:30 Do what you said you would do 13:00 Own it when you blow it 16:00 Tell the truth without shading, spinning, or hiding details 19:00 Bring the effort and become dependable 23:00 Think church, not turf 27:00 Why leaders lose influence when they become territorial 29:00 No surprises: keeping supervisors informed 32:00 Stay teachable and receive correction without defensiveness 36:00 Evaluate honestly and care more about getting better than looking good 39:00 Be loyal in the right rooms 44:00 What reasonable loyalty looks like on a healthy team 47:00 Serve with joy, humility, and a good attitude 50:00 Why character grows influence but competency creates the lid 52:00 Final thoughts and a preview of part two 📱 Follow us for more insights and resources Instagram: @timstevens Facebook: @timstevens 💻Visit LeadingSmart.com [http://leadingsmart.com/] Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk [https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk] Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK] Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast [https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast] Download The Simply Strategic Show  https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2 [https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2] 📩 Have questions or want to connect? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk [https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk] 🔔 Subscribe to stay updated on future episodes Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962] Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1IqLLXtvtZBEgRsM2gOXpO?si=8b6cc3d0a1124bdc [https://open.spotify.com/show/1IqLLXtvtZBEgRsM2gOXpO?si=8b6cc3d0a1124bdc] 📲 Enjoying th...

[S3EP29] Church Preschool: Ministry Opportunity or Missed Opportunity?

Preschool ministry is not just childcare. It may be one of the clearest relational bridges your church has to young families in the community. In this episode, Tim Stevens talks with Brandi Watterson about how churches can think more strategically about preschool ministry. Drawing from Brandi’s 17 years of experience owning and operating preschools, they unpack the opportunity churches have to start, strengthen, or realign early childhood programs connected to their ministry. They also discuss why many church preschools drift over time from mission to maintenance, how tension can build between the church and preschool sides, and why excellence, trust, and clear alignment matter if a preschool is going to serve families well. Additional topics include: church preschool early childhood ministry daycare ministry church leadership family ministry children’s ministry church operations ministry alignment community outreach preschool leadership staffing and structure church facilities mission drift building trust with families Timestamps 00:00 Introducing Brandi Watterson and preschool consulting at LeadingSmart 02:00 Brandi and Danny’s story in ministry 04:30 Starting a church and buying their first preschool 08:00 Taking over a struggling school and rebuilding trust 11:00 Expanding into multiple preschool models 13:30 Common challenges churches face with preschools 14:30 The tension between the preschool and the church 16:00 How churches lose sight of preschool as a ministry opportunity 18:00 Why preschool can become a relational bridge to families 20:00 Bringing excellence to church preschool programming 22:00 Practical ways pastors and ministry teams can connect with preschool families 24:00 Should your church run the preschool or partner with someone else? 26:00 Licensing, timelines, facilities, and startup realities 29:00 How LeadingSmart helps churches start, strengthen, or realign preschool ministry 31:00 Brandi’s leadership experience and Forbes Business Council work 33:00 Final thoughts for churches with preschool opportunities 📱 Follow us for more insights and resources Instagram: @timstevens Facebook: @timstevens 💻Visit LeadingSmart.com [http://leadingsmart.com/] Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk [https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk] Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK] Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast [https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast] Download The Simply Strategic Show  https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2 [https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2] 📩 Have questions or want to connect? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk [https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk] 🔔 Subscribe to stay updated on future episodes Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962] Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1IqLLXtvtZBEgRsM2gOXpO?si=8b6cc3d0a1124bdc [https://open.spotify.com/show/1IqLLXtvtZBEgRsM2gOXpO?si=8b6cc3d0a1124bdc] 📲 Enjoying th...

[S3EP28] 5 Signs of a Healthy Church Leadership Team

In this episode, Tim Stevens and Holly Tate talk about what makes a healthy church leadership team and why having the right people in the room matters. Drawing from Tim’s leadership team teaching and their work with churches, they unpack the characteristics leaders should look for when deciding who belongs at the senior leadership table. They also discuss why leadership team health is about more than titles and org charts, how to know whether someone can think beyond their own ministry area, and why senior leaders set the tone by the way they participate in meetings. Tim and Holly also talk through the tension between executive teams, senior leadership teams, subject matter experts, and the importance of clarity around decision rights. Additional topics include: church leadership healthy leadership teams church staffing and structure executive team dynamics senior leadership teams decision rights church org charts team alignment healthy conflict leadership team meetings mission commitment active participation adaptive leadership church staff culture senior pastor leadership Timestamps 00:00 Why healthy teams require the right people 05:30 Committed to the whole mission, not just one ministry area 09:45 Healthy conflict, respectful debate, and decision support 17:15 Adaptability, accountability, and leadership maturity 22:10 Empathy, listening, and team culture 28:30 Active participation and why senior leaders set the tone 34:15 Titles, org charts, and who should really be in the room 45:30 Random segment: favorite sandwiches 51:00 LeadingSmart’s first Executive Team Gathering 📱 Follow us for more insights and resources Instagram: @timstevens Facebook: @timstevens 💻Visit LeadingSmart.com [http://leadingsmart.com/] Need help facilitating your next staff retreat or strategic offsite? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk [https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk] Listen to Leading In Real Time Podcast Series https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2wnxRYYqm_ThAiSPBwjH7vQH5i3H3aK] Listen to the full 40 Lessons In 40 Years series https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast [https://www.leadingsmart.com/podcast] Download The Simply Strategic Show  https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2 [https://www.leadingsmart.com/books-2] 📩 Have questions or want to connect? https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk [https://www.leadingsmart.com/lets-talk] 🔔 Subscribe to stay updated on future episodes Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadingsmart-podcast/id1813933962] Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1IqLLXtvtZBEgRsM2gOXpO?si=8b6cc3d0a1124bdc [https://open.spotify.com/show/1IqLLXtvtZBEgRsM2gOXpO?si=8b6cc3d0a1124bdc] 📲 Enjoying th...