The Logic Exchange

Inside the Business of Law: Leading Through Change

Most conversations about legal marketing focus on getting clients in the door. Hunter Shkolnik spends a lot of time thinking about what happens when the whole system is under pressure.Hunter is a nationally recognized trial lawyer who has spent his career in some of the most complex mass tort litigation in the country. At Napoli Shkolnik, he has driven discovery and trial strategy across major environmental, pharmaceutical, and medical device cases, including the opioid crisis and talc-related claims, where he served on national settlement committees and helped shape outcomes at a scale most litigators never see.Beyond the courtroom, he has been appointed to numerous Plaintiff Steering Committees, chaired influential litigation groups, and stays active with the American Association for Justice, speaking on litigation strategy, legal ethics, and professionalism. He is a founding board member of the Trial Lawyers of Puerto Rico and a regular speaker at national conferences.That experience running high-stakes, high-volume litigation gives him a particular perspective on what breaks down when firms scale fast without the right foundation.This episode gets into the realities of managing large-scale litigation, building intake and marketing partnerships that actually hold up, and what leading through disruption looks like when the stakes are real. If growth and resilience are on your agenda for 2026, this one has substance.─────────────────────────────────────────GUEST─────────────────────────────────────────Hunter Shkolnik | Napoli ShkolnikPlaintiff Steering Committees | Opioid Crisis | TalcAmerican Association for Justice | Trial Lawyers of Puerto Rico─────────────────────────────────────────CHAPTERS─────────────────────────────────────────0:00 Intro12:15 Partner Strategy, Evaluation & Lead Origin26:24 Lessons Learned & Ethical Sourcing33:50 Defining Success & Real Performance Metrics44:57 Innovation, Automation & Evolution51:06 The Future of Legal Marketing & Case Acquisition52:14 Leadership, Culture & Philosophy─────────────────────────────────────────WHAT WE COVER─────────────────────────────────────────How Hunter vets marketing and intake partners before committingWhat separates a vendor from a strategic partner in this spaceWhat every firm should ask a marketing partner before signingThe do's and don'ts he's learned in legal marketing and intakeHow to balance volume and verification when scalingWhat ethical claimant sourcing actually requires in practiceThe metrics that separate real campaign growth from temporary liftROI evaluation beyond cost-per-signed-retainerThe underrated KPI more firms should be trackingWhat he's watching in 2026 on marketing innovationSpeed-first vs. compliance-first: where the industry is headingWhat the future of mass tort claimant acquisition looks likeLeading a legal team when the environment keeps shiftingBuilding a culture that holds growth and integrity together─────────────────────────────────────────THE LOGIC EXCHANGE─────────────────────────────────────────The Logic Exchange is a podcast where marketing, growth, and innovation meet. Hosted by Nick Thompson. New episodes every two weeks.#LegalMarketing #MassTorts #LawFirmGrowth #TheLogicExchange #LegalLeadership #IntakeMarketing #TCPA #LegalIndustry #TrialLawyer #CaseAcquisition

Inside the Business of Law - From Lead to Lifelong Client: The Retention Shift

Most law firms measure success the moment a client signs. Ross Buntrock thinks that's where a lot of firms go wrong.Ross is a trial lawyer with 30 years in complex litigation, mass torts, and consumer protection. He grew up on a South Dakota farm, spent years on the defense side at AmLaw 100 firms, then moved to plaintiff work and now chairs the Mass Tort, Mass Arbitration, and Class Action Practice at Sweetnam Schuster & Schartz. His current cases include Roundup, Zantac, and Talc.That defense background shapes how he thinks about intake and sourcing. He's seen how these cases get picked apart from the other side, which gives him a different angle on TCPA, data privacy, and compliance than most people in this conversation have.We skip past the acquisition basics here. Ross gets into how he actually vets marketing and intake partners, where volume-based scaling tends to break down, what ethical claimant sourcing looks like when firms get it right, and why he thinks retention is the thing firms underestimate. If signed cases are your main KPI, this conversation will probably complicate that a bit.─────────────────────────────────────────GUEST─────────────────────────────────────────Ross Buntrock | Partner, Sweetnam Schuster & SchartzMass Tort, Mass Arbitration & Class Action Practice ChairRoundup | Zantac | Talc─────────────────────────────────────────CHAPTERS─────────────────────────────────────────0:00 Intro1:52 Partner Strategy, Evaluation & Lead Origin9:19 Lessons Learned & Ethical Sourcing29:37 Defining Success & Real Performance Metrics36:11 Innovation, Automation & Evolution43:12 The Future of Legal Marketing & Case Acquisition47:59 Leadership, Culture & Philosophy─────────────────────────────────────────WHAT WE COVER─────────────────────────────────────────How Ross vets marketing and intake partners before working with themWhat firms forget to ask a vendor before signingWhere volume-based scaling tends to breakWhat ethical claimant sourcing actually looks like in practiceThe metrics he uses beyond cost-per-signed-retainerWhat he's watching in 2026 on AI and claimant qualificationHis honest take on speed vs. complianceWhat mass tort acquisition looks like in a few yearsBuilding a team culture that doesn't trade integrity for growth─────────────────────────────────────────THE LOGIC EXCHANGE─────────────────────────────────────────The Logic Exchange is a podcast where marketing, growth, and innovation meet. Hosted by Nick Thompson. New episodes every two weeks.#LegalMarketing #MassTorts #LawFirmGrowth #ClientRetention #TheLogicExchange #LegalIndustry #IntakeMarketing #TCPA #LawFirm #TrialLawyer

Defining Success Beyond Cost per Retainer

Defining Success Beyond Cost Per Retainer | The Logic Exchange Ep. 6 If cost per retainer is your primary success metric, this conversation will change how you think about mass tort performance. In this episode, host Nick Thompson sits down with John Ray, a name synonymous with strategy, structure, and scale in the mass tort space. With over two decades of experience and a background that includes building and selling multiple medical and pharmaceutical companies in an eight-figure transaction, John brings a perspective few in this industry can match. His firsthand knowledge of FDA regulations, product development, and how major pharma and medical device players actually operate became a game-changer when he entered the mass tort arena. What John found was a critical gap: firms lacked standardized terminology and clear, actionable metrics to evaluate opportunities and performance. What followed were frameworks and benchmarks now widely used across top mass tort firms today. Through his consulting work and his renowned four-day mass tort course, where he has trained over 1,000 attorneys, John has helped firms rethink how they measure success, assess risk, and build sustainable, profitable operations. ──────────────────────────────🎯 IN THIS EPISODE:──────────────────────────────▶ How to vet law firm, marketing, and intake partners before you commit▶ What separates a true strategic partnership from a basic vendor relationship▶ The do's and don'ts of ethical and compliant lead sourcing▶ What metrics actually differentiate real growth from temporary lift▶ How to evaluate ROI beyond cost per signed retainer▶ The one underrated KPI more firms should be tracking▶ How AI and automation are reshaping lead qualification and claimant communication▶ Whether the industry is shifting from speed-first to compliance-first scaling▶ Where mass tort case acquisition is headed as TCPA enforcement tightens▶ How to build a team culture that values both growth and integrity ──────────────────────────────⏱ CHAPTERS:──────────────────────────────00:00 Intro02:05 Partner Strategy, Evaluation & Lead Origin20:03 Lessons Learned & Ethical Sourcing29:19 Defining Success & Real Performance Metrics41:20 Innovation, Automation & Evolution50:51 The Future of Legal Marketing & Case Acquisition55:35 Leadership, Culture & Philosophy ──────────────────────────────👤 ABOUT JOHN RAY:──────────────────────────────John Ray is a mass tort strategist and consultant with over two decades of experience spanning the medical, pharmaceutical, and legal marketing industries. Before entering the mass tort space, he built and sold multiple medical and pharmaceutical companies in an eight-figure transaction, gaining deep expertise in FDA regulations and product development. He has since trained over 1,000 attorneys through his four-day mass tort course and developed the performance frameworks and benchmarks now standard across top plaintiff firms nationwide. ──────────────────────────────📻 ABOUT THE LOGIC EXCHANGE:──────────────────────────────The Logic Exchange is a podcast where marketing, growth, and innovation meet. Hosted by Nick Thompson. 🔔 Subscribe so you never miss an episode. #TheLogicExchange #MassTort #LegalMarketing #CostPerRetainer #Podcast #CaseAcquisition #TCPA #PerformanceMetrics #NickThompson #JohnRay

Scaling Volume: Modernization in Mass Tort

Scaling Volume: Modernization in Mass Tort | The Logic Exchange Ep. 5 What does it really take to scale a mass tort operation without sacrificing compliance or quality? In this episode, host Nick Thompson sits down with Amie Lawson, CEO of Email Agency and LawLogic, one of the most trusted operators in legal lead generation. With over 20 years of experience across mass tort, insurance, and healthcare verticals, Amie has built a reputation for doing what most struggle to balance: growing volume while maintaining ethics, compliance, and performance. From vetting campaigns and managing partner networks to pioneering quality assurance and medical record retrieval processes, this conversation is a masterclass in what it means to modernize mass tort the right way. ───────────────────────────🎯 IN THIS EPISODE:───────────────────────────▶ How to evaluate mass tort campaigns and vet partners before you commit▶ What ethical and compliant lead sourcing actually looks like in 2026▶ Real TCPA consent, TrustedForm, and ad transparency in practice▶ The KPIs most firms are overlooking and the ones that predict real growth▶ How AI and automation are reshaping lead qualification and claimant communication▶ Where the intake and claimant acquisition landscape is heading as privacy regulations tighten▶ How to build a team culture where compliance is the standard, not just a checklist ───────────────────────────⏱ CHAPTERS:───────────────────────────00:00 Intro 03:58 Partner Strategy, Evaluation & Lead Origin 21:23 Lessons Learned & Ethical Sourcing 27:27 Defining Success & Real Performance Metrics 35:30 Innovation, Automation & Evolution 46:50 The Future of Legal Marketing & Claimant Acquisition 50:32 Leadership, Culture & Philosophy ───────────────────────────👤 ABOUT AMIE LAWSON:───────────────────────────Amie Lawson is the CEO of Email Agency and its LawLogic division, a performance marketing firm specializing in mass tort, insurance, and healthcare lead generation. With over two decades in the industry, Amie has redefined what ethical, high-volume lead generation looks like for modern law firms. ───────────────────────────📻 ABOUT THE LOGIC EXCHANGE:───────────────────────────The Logic Exchange is a podcast where marketing, growth, and innovation meet. Hosted by Nick Thompson. 🔔 Subscribe so you never miss an episode.

Mass Tort Marketing: The Next Frontier

On this episode of The Logic Exchange, host Nick Thompson is joined by Holden Berlin, Co-Founder of Transport Marketing, to explore the evolving landscape of mass tort marketing. With over two decades of experience across HBO, Condé Nast, NBC Sports, and more, Holden shares how data, media, and performance strategy are converging to transform how law firms identify and engage high quality claimants. From building true strategic partnerships and maintaining compliance at scale to balancing speed with verification and integrating AI into intake operations, this conversation dives deep into what it takes to win in an increasingly competitive legal marketing arena. Holden also unpacks key metrics for performance evaluation, lessons from campaigns past, and his outlook on the future of case acquisition. If you are a marketer, intake leader, or managing partner looking to understand where legal performance marketing is headed and how to stay ahead, this episode is your insider’s guide to the next frontier.