The Vitalist

The Biology of Trauma: How the Body Holds What the Mind Can't with Dr. Aimie Apigian

In this episode of The Vitalist, Dr. Aimie Apigian, double board-certified physician and author of The Biology of Trauma, redefines trauma through the lens of physiology, not psychology. This conversation moves beyond the story of what happened and into what your body did in response. We explore how trauma is not the event itself, but the moment your nervous system couldn't complete a response. How your body stores experiences not as memories, but as sensations, patterns, and associations that quietly shape your health, your relationships, and your sense of safety in the world. We talk about why chronic illness is often decades in the making, how your nervous system is constantly scanning for danger beneath your awareness, and why healing doesn't begin by revisiting your past, but by creating safety in your body. You'll hear how early attachment shapes your entire perception of reality, why most people are deeply disconnected from their bodies without realizing it, and what it actually takes to move from survival into a deeper, more alive way of being. This is a conversation about trauma, but more than that, it's a conversation about your body's innate intelligence. BIO: A Preventive and Addiction Medicine physician with Master's degrees in both biochemistry and public health, Dr. Aimie Apigian is the national bestselling author of The Biology of Trauma. She hosts her podcast, leads online nervous system healing courses and a practitioner certificate training program. Bridging the worlds of functional medicine, attachment and trauma, she is a leading expert on how the body holds fear and overwhelm from the past to make one sick today. HIGHLIGHTS: Trauma isn't what happened to you, it's what happened inside your body. The physiological shift is what gets stored. (00:44) Stress is designed to move you into action, but trauma begins when your body can't. That moment of "stuck" is where the pattern starts. (01:46) Your nervous system, not your mind, is running the show, constantly scanning for safety or danger below your conscious `awareness. (05:20) Two people can live the same moment and experience completely different realities, shaped by their nervous system's history. (08:53) By just four months old, your nervous system has already formed a filter for the world: safe…or unsafe. (12:29) Chronic illness isn't random, it's often the result of decades of nervous system patterns finally expressing through the body. (14:24) Trauma doesn't just live in your body, it shows up in your relationships, your behaviors, and the way your life unfolds. (16:15) The most impactful trauma is often the one you don't remember, the unconscious patterns quietly shaping your biology. (16:59) Your body isn't betraying you, it's adapting. Symptoms are often the result of blocked healing, not broken design. (18:12) Your nervous system stores experiences as sensations and associations, which is why your body can react before your mind understands. (22:00) You can feel unsafe in a completely safe moment, because your body is responding to the past, not the present. (23:01) Healing requires addressing three layers: your thoughts, your body, and your biology. Miss one, and the pattern remains. (21:31) Most people aren't actually feeling their bodies, they've been disconnected for so long they don't even know what embodiment feels like. (34:22) You don't start healing by revisiting your past, you start by creating safety in your body. Without that, processing can overwhelm the system. (40:17) Healing isn't about digging everything up, it's about creating enough safety that what's ready naturally surfaces. (42:25) RESOURCES: Connect with Dr. Aimie Apigian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/draimie/ [https://www.instagram.com/draimie/] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-aimie-apigian [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-aimie-apigian] YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/DrAimieApigian [https://www.youtube.com/c/DrAimieApigian] Website: https://biologyoftrauma.com/ [https://biologyoftrauma.com/] Podcast: https://www.biologyoftrauma.com/podcast [https://www.biologyoftrauma.com/podcast] Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/aimie.apigian/ [https://www.facebook.com/aimie.apigian/]

Why "Listening to Your Body" Isn't Enough: The Truth About Embodiment with Philip Shepherd

What if the body was never meant to be something we "listen to," but something we are? In this episode of The Vitalist, Dr's Sera and Keiko sit down with Philip Shepherd, author of Radical Wholeness, New Self, New World, and Deep Fitness, to explore how culture has shaped us into living from the neck up… and what it would take to return home. Philip traces the roots of disembodiment back 10,000 years to the Neolithic Revolution, when we shifted from sensing the world through the belly to controlling it from the head. Together, they unpack the three foundational cultural shifts that reorganized our awareness, from mother-centered societies to patriarchal hierarchies, from earth-based spirituality to sky gods, from embodied intelligence to abstraction. This conversation moves far beyond "mind-body connection." Philip challenges the very phrase itself, proposing instead a body-world experience where intelligence is not confined to the brain, and presence is not something you manufacture, but something you surrender into. They explore trauma as cultural dissociation, why identity can block true presence, the forgotten intelligence of the pelvic floor, and how strength training, indigenous wisdom, and even spontaneous movement can become portals back into wholeness. At its heart, this episode is about remembering that you belong to your body, to the earth, and to the present moment. BIO: Philip Shepherd is recognized as a leader in the global embodiment movement. He is the founder of The Embodied Present Process™, which offers courses online as well as workshops, retreats and Facilitators Trainings worldwide. Philip is the author of two books, Radical Wholeness and New Self, New World, and co-author of Deep Fitness. HIGHLIGHTS: How the journey of disembodiment began 10,000 years ago with the Neolithic Revolution. (0:58) The three crucial cultural shifts that reorganized human consciousness: gathering around the father instead of the mother, sky gods replacing earth goddesses, and awareness migrating from belly to head. (2:50) In Homer's time, the word fren meant both "mind" and "diaphragm" and how Plato's philosophy later positioned the body as merely a vehicle for the head. (6:04) Was disembodiment necessary for art, science, and innovation? (8:19) Philip's definition of embodiment: when the whole of your intelligence comes into coherence with the present moment. (11:03) Why "listening to the body" still implies separation. (12:01) Rejecting the phrase "mind-body" altogether and reframing our experience as a body-world relationship. (12:37) How modern culture conditions us to experience life outside-in through the senses. (14:40) Philip's first remembered moment of full receptivity. (18:40) The relief of letting go of self-organization and discovering the deep link between presence and receptivity. (20:00) Why our language is saturated with words for the mind but impoverished when it comes to the body, and how "mind" has been reduced to "brain." (21:36) "Tension is who we think we are; relaxation is who we actually are." Exploring identity versus presence and the body as analog intelligence. (25:02) The radical choice between defending an identity or surrendering into presence. (26:44) "To feel yourself as whole requires that you feel the mystery that makes you whole." (28:58) Trauma defined as dissociation from the body and why, culturally, we are all traumatized. (29:55) The two-step process of healing trauma: expression of stored energy and integration through the pelvic bowl. (31:35) Living in a world of energy versus a world of ideas and why integration cannot happen through analysis alone. (33:23) Why the pelvic floor is the forgotten diaphragm of our culture and how releasing it to the breath restores security and grounded presence. (35:09) The relationship between pelvic bowl and heart and why going from head to heart still leaves the head in charge. (37:47) The difference between seeking safety and recovering embodied security. (39:06) Philip's favorite movement practice: stand still, and let the body initiate movement from within. (42:54) The meaning of entelechy: the seeded potential within each of us that knows how to grow. (44:33) The difference between cleverness and intelligence. (47:49) Recommended books for deeper embodiment, including Deep Fitness and Original Wisdom. (49:10) How modern fitness culture was shaped by a 1968 book, Aerobics by Kenneth Cooper and why its core assumptions were flawed. (49:39) Sarcopenia, myokines, and why muscle is essential for longevity and whole-body health. (50:58) The two primary functions of muscle: movement and the production of healing messenger molecules. (51:40) Why 30 minutes of focused strength training once a week can be more effective than chronic cardio. (51:54) How the world might change if we rediscovered "enough." (54:26) "When the present is not enough, it's because you are insufficiently present." (55:46) Gentleness as the quality of felt relationship and why without gentleness we remain immune to the body's guidance. (59:31) Where to connect with Philip. (60:35) RESOURCES: Connect with Philip Shepherd: https://embodiedpresent.com/ [https://embodiedpresent.com/] FB. https://www.facebook.com/EmbodiedPresent [https://calendly.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FEmbodiedPresent&user_uuid=8d61f4c5-942b-4e39-8c45-6013a78ec7a6&stage=0&hmac=3e036c554f6bd20e036b6bb625fa308da1767b039034fc4cf09657b76646b8f1] Linkedin. https://www.linkedin.com/in/philip-shepherd-76287615/?msgControlName=view_message_button&msgConversationId=2-ODg4ZGRiY2MtM2Q5Ni00MGYxLWE5OGUtYThjMTcwMWQwZTI3XzEwMA%3D%3D&msgOverlay=true [https://calendly.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fphilip-shepherd-76287615%2F%3FmsgControlName%3Dview_message_button%26amp%3BmsgConversationId%3D2-ODg4ZGRiY2MtM2Q5Ni00MGYxLWE5OGUtYThjMTcwMWQwZTI3XzEwMA%253D%253D%26amp%3BmsgOverlay%3Dtrue&user_uuid=8d61f4c5-942b-4e39-8c45-6013a78ec7a6&stage=0&hmac=3fd5e1be7c256e785e37f3cb5777cfbe7cd53ac4c25b34c2c2a7c72f9f70984b] Books by Philip Shepherd: https://embodiedpresent.com/pages/books-philip-shepherd [https://embodiedpresent.com/pages/books-philip-shepherd] Book Original Wisdom by Robert Wolff: https://www.amazon.com/Original-Wisdom-Stories-Ancient-Knowing/dp/0892818662/ref=sr_1_1?crid=33BIWVR4Z2HS6&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.7K0PJECelK7Z9bP8X4FMEvgvUG38nsLVLBzx41x6h-7d9qIArPMten9oJlSsXbHSilZrScTsjvnu3QiicnpS7oUT7DKAMv4rXAqrYFLG3ibzKOAPmQ8mwdf7UxK6GDm-kIqZYe45-ESiWKx1xmUpDe8Ww8v15qZv-7EQhZJDA-spxXI50phgE3kPA4wmqk9m5wSum-iO_HJg8bXJf1JiUO_5fy6V_8-3d6tQpi-mhg8.BHI90wQdA-1UsFVO-CTzDAlxtr8Lw8vZgnljBeaqOB0&dib_tag=se&keywords=original+wisdom&qid=1772470128&sprefix=original+wisdom%2Caps%2C238&sr=8-1 [https://www.amazon.com/Original-Wisdom-Stories-Ancient-Knowing/dp/0892818662/ref=sr_1_1?crid=33BIWVR4Z2HS6&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.7K0PJECelK7Z9bP8X4FMEvgvUG38nsLVLBzx41x6h-7d9qIArPMten9oJlSsXbHSilZrScTsjvnu3QiicnpS7oUT7DKAMv4rXAqrYFLG3ibzKOAPmQ8mwdf7UxK6GDm-kIqZYe45-ESiWKx1xmUpDe8Ww8v15qZv-7EQhZJDA-spxXI50phgE3kPA4wmqk9m5wSum-iO_HJg8bXJf1JiUO_5fy6V_8-3d6tQpi-mhg8.BHI90wQdA-1UsFVO-CTzDAlxtr8Lw8vZgnljBeaqOB0&dib_tag=se&keywords=original+wisdom&qid=1772470128&sprefix=original+wisdom%2Caps%2C238&sr=8-1] Never miss an episode. Subscribe [https://mailchi.mp/f886ad2274fe/the-vitalist-podcast] to get notified about what's coming next. Follow us @TheVitalistPodcast [https://www.instagram.com/thevitalistpodcast/] www.TheVitalistPodcast.com [https://www.the/] Visit us @KinfolkOptimalLiving [https://www.instagram.com/kinfolkoptimalliving/] www.KinfolkOptimalLiving.com [https://www.kinfolkoptimalliving.com/]

Why Plants Change How You Think and Feel with Spiritual Herbalist Tracy James

What if your body already knows how to communicate with plants? In this episode of The Vitalist, Dr. Sera sits down with spiritual herbalist Tracy James to explore the living intelligence of plants, the five elements, and our innate ability to reconnect with nature as a source of healing, regulation, and wisdom. We dive into how the earth, water, fire, air, and ether elements shape the way plants communicate through the body, emotions, mind, and spirit. Tracy shares her journey into plant communication, her time learning from Shipibo shamans in Peru, and how practices like plant bathing, meditation, and sensory attunement can restore our sense of belonging to the natural world. This conversation explores modern disconnection from nature, the nerve system impact of land dislocation, and practical ways to rebuild relationships with the plants already around you, whether through tea, supplements, rituals, or simply sitting with a tree. If you're curious about plant intelligence, phytosomatics, nerve system healing, or how nature supports emotional regulation, grief, boundaries, and purpose, this episode offers both ancient wisdom and grounded, actionable insight. BIO: Tracy James is a spiritual herbalist and coach whose work explores the intersection of shamanism, leadership, eco-sentience, and embodiment. Over the past 25 years, she has developed Elemental Energetics™, a somatic coaching methodology that weaves ancient and modern approaches to personal growth and embodied leadership. Her years apprenticing with indigenous healers in the Peruvian Amazon and studying with mystics in India and Nepal inform her Regenerative Leadership methodology and her teaching on Phytosomatics, the practice of listening to how plants communicate through the body. She facilitates Reverence, a community for building relationship with the intelligence of plant spirits and the living world. HIGHLIGHTS: How the 5 elements relate to our ability to communicate with plants. Beginning with the earth element and what Tracy defines as phytosomatics. (0:54) Water element: emotional intelligence, adaptability, and how plants support fluid emotional regulation. (2:35) Fire element: passion, purpose, compassion, and the felt warmth of plant connection. (3:17) Air element: plants influencing thought, vision, inspiration, and mental clarity. (4:16) Ether element: space, unity, and the experience of oneness with all of life. (5:00) Tracy James shares how attuning her senses and sitting with trees transformed her health and awareness as a child. (6:39) Tracy's first journey to Peru and learning from Shipibo shamans who speak the language of plants and the body. (8:54) How the industrial age fractured our relationship with nature and why fear of nature limits our healing. (10:40) A simple question to deepen your relationship with nature right now: Where is nature already present in your life? (12:34) Working with Rose: heart-opening compassion paired with boundaries and resilience. (15:30) Forming a relationship with the plants in your supplements. (18:22) How Amazonian shamans know which plant to use and why lineage and deep listening are essential. (20:30) The foundational teaching Tracy received from the shamans: listening begins with faith. (21:50) Plant bathing as a ritual for communication, regulation, and embodied wisdom. (23:03) A story of grief, plant baths, and releasing loss through the intelligence of nature. (24:16) Where to begin if you feel disconnected from plants and learning to trust that nature communication is hardwired into your biology. (25:24) The unique personalities of plants; why a rose, a tree, and a cactus each teach something different. (27:06) Tracy shares a guided meditation to connect with the ancient spirit of the rose. (27:49) How plants sense us and why their relationship to humans is fundamentally benevolent. (29:42) Dr. Sera shares a practice for building relational "threads" with all living beings around your home. (31:31) Exploring land dislocation and how being removed from place impacts the nervous system and identity. (32:47) How displacement from place impacts the body and how intentional relationship with new land restores belonging. (35:00) How learning the plants native to your area restores belonging and feeling at home. (36:05) Using the PictureThis app to identify plants and deepen everyday plant awareness. (37:14) Tracy shares details about her monthly coaching and plant-based programs. (37:28) Tracy's 7-day guided plant meditation journey; one plant relationship per day. (38:32) RESOURCES: Connect with Tracy https://www.livingelemental.com/ [https://www.livingelemental.com/] https://www.instagram.com/coachtracyjames [https://www.instagram.com/coachtracyjames] 7 day Guided Plant Spirit Meditation Journey https://www.livingelemental.com/7day Picture This Plant Identifier App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/picturethis-plant-identifier/id1252497129 [https://apps.apple.com/us/app/picturethis-plant-identifier/id1252497129] The work of Philip Shepherd: https://embodiedpresent.com/ [https://embodiedpresent.com/] Never miss an episode. Subscribe [https://mailchi.mp/f886ad2274fe/the-vitalist-podcast] to get notified about what's coming next. Follow us @TheVitalistPodcast [https://www.instagram.com/thevitalistpodcast/] www.TheVitalistPodcast.com [https://www.the/] Visit us @KinfolkOptimalLiving [https://www.instagram.com/kinfolkoptimalliving/] www.KinfolkOptimalLiving.com [https://www.kinfolkoptimalliving.com/]

What's Really in Your Wine? Regenerative Farming, Biodynamics & the Intelligence of Nature with Alice Anderson

What if wine could be more than a beverage? What if it was a living expression of soil health, intuition, and care? In this episode of The Vitalist, Dr. Keiko sits down with Alice Anderson, founder and winemaker of Amevive, to explore the intersection of regenerative agriculture, biodynamic farming, and embodied winemaking. Alice shares her journey from growing up around wine labels to falling in love with animals, farming, and the intelligence of land, eventually founding Amevive in 2019 with a commitment to growing and producing wine that feels as good in the body as it tastes. Together, they unpack what biodynamic and regenerative farming actually mean, how celestial rhythms influence wine, and why small-scale, intuitive practices matter more than ever. This conversation dives into the unseen side of wine production: from additives and undisclosed processing aids to the sensory, tactile decisions that shape fermentation. Alice explains why many people feel better drinking additive-free wines, how she senses when a wine is ready, and why some of her most beautiful wines were born from accident. At its heart, this episode is about trust: trusting nature, trusting timing, and remembering that vitality comes from systems designed to work together. Whether you love wine, care about your nerve system, or feel called to more intentional ways of living and consuming, this episode invites you to slow down and taste what's possible. Connect with Alice & Amevive Website: https://amevivewine.com/ Find locally: Ask your local wine shop for Amevive Instagram: @amevive.wine HIGHLIGHTS: From horses and animals to Cal Poly: how studying general agriculture led Alice into viticulture and winemaking through hands-on curiosity. (1:43) Why Alice founded Amevive in 2019 and how it has grown into 21 acres of vineyards rooted in regenerative practices. (3:29) Living on the land you farm: how Alice experiences work–life balance when your home, vineyard, animals, and creativity are all one ecosystem. (4:29) What biodynamic wine really means and how the sun, moon, and stars influence the rhythms of farming and fermentation. (5:40) The role of biodynamic composts: how herbs are used intentionally to amplify soil vitality and microbial intelligence. (6:34) Regenerative agriculture explained as a closed-loop system where soil, plants, animals, microbes, and humans work in mutual relationship. (7:18) When and why American farming shifted away from regenerative systems toward monocrops, subsidies, and industrial agriculture. (8:37) Why intuitive farming matters: learning to observe, listen, and respond rather than impose rigid prescriptions on the land. (10:40) How to choose wine that's grown with integrity; what to ask for at your local wine shop to avoid greenwashing and monocropped vineyards. (12:34) Can you taste the difference between biodynamic/regenerative wine and conventional wine? Alice explains why it's more about energy than flavor. (15:14) Why many people get headaches or stomach aches from wine and why additive-free wines like Amevive feel radically different in the body. (17:00) A side-by-side look at small-scale, hands-on winemaking versus corporate wine production from harvest to bottle. (19:24) What is Velcorin, why large wineries use it, and why it's both toxic and legally undisclosed on U.S. wine labels. (22:48) How Alice knows when wine is ready; reading temperature, texture, tannins, and sensation through each phase of fermentation. (25:19) The most important decision in red winemaking: when to press and how Alice waits for tannins to soften into sweetness. (27:27) The art of restraint in farming and winemaking: learning when to intervene and when to trust nature's timing and resilience. (28:48) How one "mistake" in 2021 led to Alice's favorite Marsanne to date and reshaped her approach to letting wine evolve naturally. (29:26) Why winemaker-owned wineries often produce the most profound wines, free from external pressure, timelines, and marketing demands. (30:55) A lesson passed down from another natural winemaker: "If it tastes bad, just wait." Why patience is a creative force. (32:15) The true intention behind Alice's wine: not perfection, but joy, aliveness, and genuine pleasure. (33:17) Trusted regenerative wine producers to look for when Amevive is sold out: Scar of the Sea, Lady of the Sunshine, and Tablas Creek. (34:27) The future of regenerative farming and why Alice believes soil health is the foundation of human and planetary vitality. (35:08) Where to connect with Alice, experience the wines, and learn directly from the land. (37:53) Connect with Alice & Amevive Website: https://amevivewine.com/ Find locally: Ask your local wine shop for Amevive Instagram: @amevive.wine Scar of the Sea: https://www.scaroftheseawines.com/ Lady of the Sunshine: https://www.ladyofthesunshinewines.com/ Tablas Creek: https://tablascreek.com/ [https://tablascreek.com/] Never miss an episode. Subscribe [https://mailchi.mp/f886ad2274fe/the-vitalist-podcast] to get notified about what's coming next. Follow us https://www.instagram.com/thevitalistpodcast/ https://thevitalistpodcast.com/ Visit us https://www.instagram.com/kinfolkoptimalliving/# https://www.kinfolkoptimalliving.com/

Why Symptoms Come Last: How Acupuncture Reveals the Body's Innate Intelligence with Dr. Alan Chang

In this episode of The Vitalist, Dr. Sera sits down with Dr. Alan Chang to discuss how acupuncture really works. Drawing from Chinese medicine, embryology, and decades of clinical experience, Dr. Alan shares how the body organizes itself long before symptoms appear. Together, they explore the meridian system as an energetic landscape, the five elements as living relationships within the body, and how modern metaphors like cellphones can help us understand invisible pathways of information and energy. This conversation also moves into the emotional terrain of healing, unpacking how stress and unprocessed emotion can shape the body over time, why physical symptoms are often downstream of deeper patterns, and how practices like walking in morning light, visualization, and gentle awareness can help restore balance. If you're curious about healing that feels grounded, human, and deeply respectful of the body's intelligence, this episode is for you. BIO: Dr. Alan Chang, L.Ac is a second generation acupuncturist, having taken over his father's practice 20 years ago in California. Dr. Alan is gentle & intuitive; he quietly tunes in to what people need, picking up emotional causes behind what's causing physical symptoms. He can also identify daily lifestyle habits that greatly improve your vitality & wellbeing. Certified in the art of LOTUSWEI flower essences, Dr. Alan incorporates the bioenergetics of flowers into every single one of his treatments. HIGHLIGHTS: Dr. Alan shares what he learned from his father in practice. (2:06) Dr. Alan explains acupuncture meridians by comparing the body to nature, where the five elements move like living systems rather than fixed parts. (4:41) Using cellphones as a metaphor, Dr. Alan helps us understand how massive amounts of information can travel through pathways we can't see. (6:50) The very first meridian to appear in the embryo, the Chong meridian, acts like a central organizing line for life as it begins to form. (9:30) We explore what actually shapes the meridian system, from electromagnetic forces to the idea that the body has its own toroidal energy field. (10:42) Our bodies are constantly exchanging energy with the world around us and health is really about learning how to stay in balance. (12:05) Dr. Alan breaks down the five elements of Chinese medicine in a way that feels intuitive, grounded, and surprisingly practical. (13:44) He explains how the earth element connects to the stomach and spleen. (14:34) Worry and overthinking aren't just mental habits; they're deeply connected to the earth element and how the body processes stress. (16:25) One of his most recommended practices for balance is refreshingly simple: go outside and take a walk, especially in the morning light. (18:47) In Chinese medicine, the heart isn't just a pump, it's the center of an electromagnetic field that influences the entire body. (20:28) Dr. Alan reflects on how unprocessed emotional stress, particularly in men, can quietly show up later as serious illness. (22:18) Physical symptoms often come last; they're the body's way of signaling long-standing emotional or mental suppression. (24:36) When people can't remember parts of their childhood, it can be a sign of how the nervous system learned to protect itself. (25:19) He guides clients through a simple visualization, standing under a warm waterfall, to help the body feel safe enough to let go of stagnant energy. (26:34) A gentle body scan becomes a way to notice what's being held, without forcing anything to change. (27:44) Some of the most important information in healing never shows up on lab tests. (29:24) Even a needle placed far from an organ can create change, because the body works as one connected system. (31:05) Our energy fields are constantly overlapping with the people and environments around us; nothing about healing happens in isolation. (32:13) Dr. Alan shares where to find him, his practice, and the community classes he offers. (33:17) RESOURCES: Work with Dr. Alan: https://sancenterphx.com/pages/alanchang [https://sancenterphx.com/pages/alanchang] Learn more about Flower Essences: https://www.lotuswei.com/thevitalist [https://www.lotuswei.com/thevitalist] (use code: thevitalist for 10% off) Never miss an episode. Subscribe [https://mailchi.mp/f886ad2274fe/the-vitalist-podcast] to get notified about what's coming next. Follow us https://www.instagram.com/thevitalistpodcast/ https://thevitalistpodcast.com/ Visit us https://www.instagram.com/kinfolkoptimalliving/# https://www.kinfolkoptimalliving.com/