We Made This Political Podcast

Ep. 52: Corey Nathan on Religion, Politics, and Living Together

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host We Made This Political live with guest Corey Nathan, host of Talking Politics and Religion Without Killing Each Other [https://www.politicsandreligion.us/], to discuss how to disagree without dehumanizing. Corey shares his shifts from an observant Jewish upbringing to becoming a born-again Christian, how family and church conflicts shaped his commitment to healthier civic conversation, and his critique of American evangelicalism as tied to colonialism and power. Lauren describes her complex religious background and conversion to Catholicism, emphasizing perspective shifting, resisting silos, and distinguishing toleration from relativism. Lura, Lauren, and Corey explore curiosity as a practice, fear and existential framing as drivers of polarization, when firm boundaries and pushback are necessary (especially against leaders harming vulnerable groups), and why civic renewal efforts and everyday people still give them hope. 00:00 Meet the Hosts 00:56 Introducing Corey Nathan 02:30 Corey’s Faith and Politics Shift 06:43 Lauren’s Interfaith Upbringing 10:19 Why Lauren Became Catholic 13:03 Evangelicalism and Empire Critique 18:34 Earning Worth vs Grace 20:36 Repairing the World Together 23:51 Holding Tension Not Binaries 28:26 Weaponized Faith in Politics 30:37 Keep Reading the Scripture 34:20 No Neat Answers 35:13 Pets and Polarization 35:59 Jesus and the Pharisees 37:39 Curious Over Furious 40:30 Cultivating Curiosity 42:17 Grace and One Degree 45:06 When to Push Back 50:16 Fear Shuts Down Dialogue 55:03 Most People Are Nuanced 56:51 Hope and Civic Renewal 01:00:42 Where to Find Corey 01:01:34 Closing and Credits Resources Find Corey on Substack here. [https://substack.com/@coreysnathan] Find his podcast Talkin’ Politics and Religion Without Killing Each Other here. [https://www.politicsandreligion.us/] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com [https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Ep. 50: Leah Sargent on the Dignity of Dependence

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview writer and essayist Leah Sargent about her book The Dignity of Dependence [https://www.amazon.com/Dignity-Dependence-Feminist-Manifesto-Catholic/dp/0268210330?crid=J55F906P6342&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.55-tN0-xAB3CV6LbS9u-JwL0Zxg5BvLwweYmDpWD9hHGjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.K-tvpqtKG-ddCSgXML8wSbp0JZDqJ9hR8QsEHHqj2E4&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+dignity+of+dependence+a+feminist+manifesto&qid=1773324467&sprefix=,aps,98&sr=8-1&linkCode=sl2&tag=unequyoked-20&linkId=cbd2443bafee9d1a3b82180df48adf4a&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl], arguing that dependence is a normal, dignified part of human life rather than an interruption to flourishing, and that a false ideal of autonomy undermines a just society. They discuss how prosperity and medical buffering foster illusory control, American frontier individualism, and rights language that downplays duties, while emphasizing that people often fear depending on others more than being depended upon, citing suicide and euthanasia motivations. The conversation explores asymmetry in relationships, gratitude, and responding to help without denying burden, then connects dependence to Christian life and grace, Catholic conversion, and finitude. They examine motherhood, parenting, “the given,” and limits of agency, and consider birth and death as non-purely-medical events shaped by trust, home birth/hospice, and professionalization, extending to mental illness, disability, and reciprocal community accommodations. 00:00 Meet Leah Sargent 00:34 Why Dependence Has Dignity 02:04 Family and Life Cycles 03:29 Prosperity and Control Illusions 05:49 American Independence Myth 07:04 Rights Duties and Ownership 11:17 Fear of Being a Burden 14:30 Asymmetry and Gratitude 17:43 Faith Grace and Dependence 25:40 Agency Limits and Doomscrolling 28:25 Motherhood and Being Finite 32:30 Accepting the Given 34:35 Stoicism and Christian Suffering 35:15 Trust in Childbirth 38:20 Birth Plans and Support 40:50 Birth and Death as Dependence 44:02 Professionalizing Death 45:11 Regulation and Human Goodbyes 49:04 Hospital Noise and Dignity 50:17 Mental Illness and Asymmetry 53:30 Accommodation and Reciprocity 55:47 Dementia Cafes and Interdependence 58:04 Closing Thoughts and Where to Find Leah Resources Find Leah’s work at https://leahlibresco.com/ You can find links to her books, including The Dignity of Dependence, here [https://leahlibresco.com/book/]. Articles mentioned in the podcast: Everyone is Eventually a Burden [https://open.substack.com/pub/matthewburdette/p/everyone-is-eventually-a-burden?r=1hk6kq&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=post%20viewer] and Mothers Are Not Machines [https://lindseydeloachjones.substack.com/p/mothers-are-not-machines] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com [https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Ep. 49: David Beckmeyer on Outrage Overload, Tech, Media, and Tribalism

On the We Made This Political podcast, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview David Beckmeyer, creator of Outrage Overload, about how constant political conflict shapes emotions, behavior, and relationships. Beckmeyer explains he began the project after seeing post-2016 and COVID-era outrage break friendships and families, and after recognizing his own role in online pile-ons. They discuss how outrage can feel rewarding through shared social judgment, how misinformation and especially framing distort public understanding, and how social media enables people to form insulated bubbles at global scale—even without algorithms. The conversation emphasizes complexity, trade-offs, and opportunity costs in policy debates, urging curiosity, practical “scripts” like “tell me more,” boundaries when needed, and more local, relationship-based engagement to reduce polarization. 00:00 Online Bubbles Begin 00:28 Podcast And Guest Intro 01:54 Why Outrage Overload 04:17 The Reward Of Outrage 06:09 Lessons From 125 Experts 08:40 Tech Algorithms And Misinformation 13:20 Framing And Media Funnels 16:29 Local Community Reality Check 19:04 Landscape And Ecosystem Thinking 22:51 Tradeoffs Over Talking Points 23:48 COVID Debates Gone Wrong 30:20 Immigration As Outrage Bludgeon 34:35 Bridging Work Surprise 35:26 Why People Resist Bridging 37:49 Tribal Segregation Instincts 39:15 Outrage Versus Overload 40:14 Tradeoffs And Bandwidth 42:06 Relationships Breaking Apart 44:06 Stop Trying To Win 46:24 Curiosity Scripts That Work 53:48 Shared Projects Humanize 56:50 Parenting Lessons On Outrage 01:00:04 Tell Me More Mindset 01:02:24 Where To Find David 01:03:14 Reasons For Optimism 01:04:30 Final Thanks And Outro Resources: Find all of David’s work, including his podcast Outrage Overload, at outrageoverload.net [https://outrageoverload.net/] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com [https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Ep. 48: Colleen Shogan on Public History, Polarization, and the Future of the National Archives

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview Colleen Shogan, the 11th Archivist of the United States, about practicing public history in a polarized, low-trust environment. Shogan explains the Archivist’s nonpartisan, Senate-confirmed role overseeing a nationwide federal agency, and describes being fired by President Trump without the legally required explanation to Congress. She discusses the personal impact, support she received, and her quick return to work through More Perfect’s “In Pursuit” project. The conversation covers why politicizing institutions like the National Archives and Library of Congress fuels public suspicion, the need to hold complexity and nuance in American history, and how archives enable evolving interpretations. Shogan warns that inadequate funding threatens access to massive born-digital records and outlines plans for a costly “system of systems,” while noting archives’ future importance in verifying truth amid deepfakes. 00:00 Welcome and Introductions 01:05 What an Archivist Does 03:25 Nonpartisan Role Explained 06:03 Fired Without Explanation 08:28 Criticism From Both Sides 12:08 Coping and Moving Forward 17:19 New Platform After NARA 18:44 Polarization and Trust Crisis 23:42 Holding Complexity in History 26:39 Lincoln Douglass and Nuance 31:19 Revising History Temptation 32:13 Blimp View History 33:20 Critical Juncture Debate 34:11 Why Archives Matter 35:59 Reconstruction Records Lessons 38:32 Born Digital Crisis 43:01 Access Not Storage 44:14 Deepfakes Trust Proof 47:17 In Pursuit Project 55:51 Learning From Failures 01:01:01 Planning Next 250 Resources Check out the wonderful collection of essays celebrating our nation’s 250th at In Pursuit [https://www.inpursuit.org/] and the podcast In Pursuit with Colleen Shogan [https://www.inpursuit.org/podcast-episodes/podcast-trailer] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com [https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Ep. 47: Joshua Bandoch on Persuasion, Emotional Intelligence and Positive Politics

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host “We Made This Political,” a podcast about making politics more about flourishing than power, and interview Joshua Bandoch, author of How to Get What You Want [https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/How-to-Get-What-You-Want/Joshua-Bandoch/9781637748305] https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/How-to-Get-What-You-Want/Joshua-Bandoch/9781637748305and VP of Policy at the Illinois Policy Institute. Bandoch explains he wrote the book after seeing good ideas fail without effective communication, arguing persuasion requires emotional intelligence because people feel before they reason and emotions support reasoning. The discussion connects persuasion to curiosity, pluralism, and polarization, criticizing “logic tsunamis,” tribal signaling, and viewing opponents as “crazy, stupid, or evil.” Drawing on moral foundations theory, Bandoch urges understanding others’ values rather than trying to change them, and emphasizes positive, “for something” leadership as more persuasive than fear-based negativity. He also applies persuasion to parenting by offering children off-ramps and modeling calm emotional regulation. The book releases tomorrow and Bandoch can be found on LinkedIn and joshuabandoch.com. 00:00 Meet the Hosts 00:57 Introducing Josh and His Book 01:38 Why Persuasion Matters 02:45 Feelings Before Reason 07:25 Positive Emotions Win People Over 10:37 Curiosity Over Crusading 12:40 Polarization and the Persuasive Mindset 16:16 Moral Foundations and Wired Values 18:18 Pluralism and Appealing to Values 23:01 Tribalism, Power, and Losing Persuasion 26:16 Fear Behind Being Right 27:16 Practicing Being Wrong 27:37 Fear Politics and Curiosity 31:44 Negativity Bias in Media 33:02 Why Positivity Persuades 36:39 Pope Leo vs Trump Messaging 39:23 Trump Empathy and Slogans 42:59 Right vs Making Difference 46:34 Off Ramps and Face Saving 48:29 Why Americans Polarize 51:44 Parenting as Persuasion 53:46 Book Plug and Farewell This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com [https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]