What next? Leadership conversations for a better future

Bridging the trust gap: rebuilding legitimacy through place and community

Guests Professor Mike Kenny, Head of Department at the Bennett School of Public Policy, University of Cambridge Jacinta Koolmatrie, Aboriginal heritage practitioner (Adnyamathanha and Ngarrindjeri) Episode overview Across many societies, trust between communities and institutions has fractured. People feel decisions are remote, economies no longer work for them, and institutions do not recognise their on-the-ground realities. In this episode, Lindsay Hooper and Marc Kahn explore how trust and legitimacy can be rebuilt through place-based, community-led approaches, and why listening only matters when institutions are prepared to change how power is exercised. Professor Mike Kenny examines how economic transition, geographical polarisation and centralised governance have weakened the relationship between citizens and the state, creating deep place-based grievances. Jacinta Koolmatrie provides a grounded perspective from Aboriginal communities, where trust in institutions often never existed in the first place, and explains why consultation fails when institutions are unwilling to relinquish control, slow down, and work with communities on their own terms. The conversation explores what actually works: community wealth building, experimental and deliberative policy approaches, Indigenous-led responses during COVID, and the role of time, iteration and tacit knowledge. It also examines the risks of “one-size-fits-all” engagement, and the power of narrative and nostalgia in rebuilding legitimacy without falling into populist politics. Key Takeaways Place matters in practice as well as sentiment: policy outcomes vary with local history, networks, capacity and constraints, so design and implementation cannot be separated. Community engagement improves decisions by revealing tacit, experience-based knowledge that is not captured in formal data or models. Experimental, test-and-learn approaches that allow priorities to be set locally and adjusted over time produce more workable and legitimate outcomes than fixed, top-down programmes. Selected quotes “The listening [by those inpower] is more of like a show to the world that they’re doing something, but they’re not actually doing something….They realise that they’re going to lose power if they do anything past the listening part.” Jacinta Koolmatrie “Unless you really have a deeper understanding of how people feel and think about particular issues, the solutions you may try and impose just may well not fly, they may well not work or indeed be counterproductive.” Professor Mike Kenny Credits Presented by: Lindsay Hooper, Chief Executive, CISL Marc Kahn, Chief Strategy & Sustainability Officer, Investec Produced by: Carl Homer (Cambridge TV) & Alexa Sellwood Executive Producer: Gillian Secrett In partnership with: Investec Listen and Subscribe: Available on all major podcast platforms or visit the Leadership Hub on the CISL website or Investec Focus for more episodes and insights. Disclaimer: The views in this podcast are those of the contributors, and don’t necessarily represent those of CISL, the University of Cambridge, or Investec, and should not be taken as advice or a recommendation. University of Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership [https://www.cisl.cam.ac.uk/] · Investec [https://www.investec.com/en_int/welcome-to-investec.html] · CISL Leadership Hub [https://cisl.shorthandstories.com/business-leadership/index.html] · Investec Focus Radio [https://www.investec.com/en_gb/focus/conversations-for-a-better-future/conversations-for-a-better-future-episode-1.html]

Making the Transition Investable: Policy Certainty, Capital, and Coordination with Marina Grossi, Sang-Hyup Kim & Helena

Clean and green growth has moved from ambition to execution, but the challenge is one of pace. Investment conditions are key: predictable rules, credible pathways, and coordination across value chains, finance and government. Helena Norrman describes what this looks like inside one of the hardest sectors to decarbonise – steel - including the reality of upfront capital investment, permitting and policy risk, and the mismatch between industrial timelines and market expectations. Marina Grossi argues that confidence is rebuilt through delivery, evidence of real world outcomes, and coalitions and coordination to make progress investable. Sang-Hyup Kim explains why transition policy now sits at the centre of industrial strategy, competitiveness and geopolitics, and how “mini multilateralism” and practical platforms (including carbon markets and hydrogen) can unlock scale even when global cooperation is strained. Across steel, green growth policy and Brazil’s business-led coalitions, the episode sets out a practical playbook for leaders who want to move beyond isolated initiatives and accelerate delivery at scale. Guests Helena Norrman: Executive Vice President and Head of Group Communications, Global Steel Company, SSAB (Svenskt Stål AB) [Swedish Steel, Limited] Sang-Hyup Kim: Executive Director, Global Green Growth Institute (GGGI) Marina Grossi: President, Conselho Empresarial Brasileiro para o Desenvolvimento Sustentável (CEBDS) [Brazilian Business Council for Sustainable Development] Key takeaways 1. Make the transition investable: prioritise predictability and credible pathways that survive political cycles. 2. Treat transition policy as industrial strategy, because energy, infrastructure, finance and skills move together. 3. Build coalitions that align incentives across value chains and jurisdictions, because isolated action does not scale. 4. Rebuild confidence through delivery: scale proven projects and remove bottlenecks (permitting, infrastructure, standards). 5. Lead for execution: focus, be pragmatic and prioritise, act under uncertainty, and manage short-term results alongside long-term commitments. Selected Quotes “Leadership now needs super pragmatic business focus, operational excellence driven leadership -because that can actually generate strong enough results to allow for the transformation to happen - and then you need to stay the course and that take guts.” Helena Norrman “Markets don’t shift because one leader moves first. They shift when coalitions align incentives across value chains, sectors and jurisdictions.” Marina Grossi “If global multilateral corporation is not easy to achieve, then we can start with mini multilateralism by working with like-minded countries together” Sang-Hyup Kim Credits Presented by: Lindsay Hooper, Chief Executive, CISL Marc Kahn, Chief Strategy & Sustainability Officer, Investec Produced by: Carl Homer (Cambridge TV) & Alexa Sellwood Executive Producer: Gillian Secrett In partnership with: Investec Listen and Subscribe: Available on all major podcast platforms or visit the Leadership Hub on the CISL website or Investec Focus for more episodes and insights. Disclaimer: The views in this podcast are those of the contributors, and don’t necessarily represent those of CISL, the University of Cambridge, or Investec, and should not be taken as advice or a recommendation. University of Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership [https://www.cisl.cam.ac.uk/] · Investec [https://www.investec.com/en_int/welcome-to-investec.html] · CISL Leadership Hub [https://cisl.shorthandstories.com/business-leadership/index.html] · Investec Focus Radio [https://www.investec.com/en_gb/focus/conversations-for-a-better-future/conversations-for-a-better-future-episode-1.html]

Reclaiming the Future from the Algorithm

Guest: Vilas Dhar – President, Patrick J. McGovern Foundation; philanthropist, technologist and advocate for human-centred AI What Next? Leadership Conversations for a Better Future explores how leaders can help build future-fit economies, bringing fresh perspectives, provocative questions and conversations with leaders shaping the future of markets, business and society. Artificial intelligence is rapidly reshaping economies, societies and power structures — yet much of the conversation has swung between uncritical optimism and existential fear. In this episode of What Next? Lindsay Hooper and Marc Kahn explore how leaders can reclaim agency over the future of AI, ensuring it serves human progress rather than narrow commercial or political interests. Vilas Dhar argues that the real challenge is not whether AI will become uncontrollable (this is the realm of Sci-Fi), but whether societies can adapt quickly enough to its social, economic and cultural impacts. He makes the case for shifting the focus away from hype and dominance towards participation, institutional imagination and moral courage — and for designing AI systems that restore human agency and democratic participation, while supporting inclusion and long-term resilience. Key Takeaways 1. The greatest risk of AI is social disruption, loss of human agency and participation. 2. AI must be shaped as a societal project, not left to markets or geopolitics alone. 3. Civil society, government and business all have roles as co-architects of the future – but civil society has not yet stepped up. 4. Leadership today requires moral courage, humility and long-term thinking. 5. A better AI future is possible — but only if participation replaces passivity. Selected Quotes “I’m not worried about an AI system 100 years from now that decides that humans are bad. I’m worried about 10 years from now, whether we have the capacity to deal with what happens when millions of people feel not just displaced, but fully kicked out of a social contract that hasn’t really worked for them for decades.” — Vilas Dhar “Inertia does not equal inevitability. Because we’re on that path doesn’t mean that we can’t do better.” — Vilas Dhar “The question becomes who will hold the moral courage to say that whatever it is that we create has to work for everyone.” — Vilas Dhar Credits Presented by: Lindsay Hooper, Chief Executive, CISL Marc Kahn, Chief Strategy & Sustainability Officer, Investec Produced by: Carl Homer (Cambridge TV) & Alexa Sellwood Executive Producer: Gillian Secrett In partnership with: Investec Listen and Subscribe: Available on all major podcast platforms or visit the Leadership Hub on the CISL website or Investec Focus for more episodes and insights. Disclaimer: The views in this podcast are those of the contributors, and don’t necessarily represent those of CISL, the University of Cambridge, or Investec, and should not be taken as advice or a recommendation. University of Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership [https://www.cisl.cam.ac.uk/] · Investec [https://www.investec.com/en_int/welcome-to-investec.html] · CISL Leadership Hub [https://cisl.shorthandstories.com/business-leadership/index.html] · Investec Focus Radio [https://www.investec.com/en_gb/focus/conversations-for-a-better-future/conversations-for-a-better-future-episode-1.html]

Changing Minds, Changing Markets

Guests: Michael Liebreich – Managing Partner, EcoPragma Capital & CEO, Liebreich Associates Rory Sutherland – Vice Chairman, Ogilvy UK; behavioural science commentator What Next? Leadership Conversations for a Better Future explores how leaders can help build future-fit economies, bringing fresh perspectives, provocative questions and conversations with leaders shaping the future of markets, business and society. As the climate and energy transition enters a more contested phase, public confidence and political support are becoming harder to sustain. In this episode of What Next?, Lindsay Hooper and Marc Kahn explore why changing markets now requires changing minds. Michael Liebreich and Rory Sutherland bring together energy systems thinking and behavioural science to unpack why backlash has emerged, how misinformation and poor incentives undermine progress, and why leadership must shift from moral persuasion to practical delivery. They argue that loss of trust has been driven not only by political polarisation, but also by unrealistic narratives, absolutist thinking and the promotion of costly or ineffective solutions. The conversation highlights the importance of affordability, credibility and human behaviour in building momentum for the transition - and why pragmatic, market-shaping solutions matter more than ever. Key Takeaways: 1. Changing markets depends on changing minds as much as changing technologies. 2. Climate action succeeds when it is affordable, practical and trusted. 3. Transitions work by scaling the new before shutting down the old. 4. Behavioural insight is as important as engineering in designing solutions. 5. Leaders must focus on credible delivery, not performative signals. Quotes “The transition isn’t dead — it’s slow, uneven and exactly how real transitions have always worked.” Michael Liebreich “If you present people with a deal where they are only a loser, don’t be surprised when they reject it.” Rory Sutherland Credits Presented by: Lindsay Hooper, Chief Executive, CISL and Marc Kahn, Chief Strategy & Sustainability Officer, Investec Produced by: Carl Homer (Cambridge TV) & Alexa Sellwood Executive Producer: Gillian Secrett In partnership with: Investec Listen and Subscribe: Available on all major podcast platforms or visit the Leadership Hub on the CISL website or Investec Focus for more episodes and insights. Disclaimer: The views in this podcast are those of the contributors, and don’t necessarily represent those of CISL, the University of Cambridge, or Investec, and should not be taken as advice or a recommendation. University of Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership [https://www.cisl.cam.ac.uk/] · Investec [https://www.investec.com/en_int/welcome-to-investec.html] · CISL Leadership Hub [https://cisl.shorthandstories.com/business-leadership/index.html] · Investec Focus Radio [https://www.investec.com/en_gb/focus/conversations-for-a-better-future/conversations-for-a-better-future-episode-1.html]

Backing the Future: Can Philanthropy Drive Systemic Change? with Peter Bennett & Leslie Johnston

In this episode our hosts explore the role of philanthropy in shaping cleaner, fairer and more resilient economies. Philanthropy funds much of the world’s high-risk innovation, early-stage ideas and new economic thinking — often long before markets or governments are able to act. Hosts Lindsay Hooper and Marc Kahn are joined by two leaders reshaping the field: • Peter Bennett — founder of the Bennett Foundation, supporting institutions such as the Bennett Institute for Public Policy and the Bennett Innovation Lab at the Whittle Laboratory • Leslie Johnston — founding CEO of the Laudes Foundation, working with more than 300 organisations to accelerate a green, fair and inclusive global economy. Together, they explore how philanthropy can move beyond individual projects to spark system change — shaping incentives, narratives and the enabling conditions that determine whether economies become cleaner, fairer and more resilient. The guests offer two complementary perspectives on how philanthropy can drive systemic change. Peter reflects on backing exceptional people and strong institutions that can generate ideas with multi-decade impact. Leslie shares how strategic philanthropy works to catalyse market mechanisms, shift mindsets and power dynamics, and create incentives for climate-positive and people-positive outcomes. Together, they paint a picture of philanthropy as a crucial part of the wider ecosystem — not replacing business or government, but enabling experimentation, supporting innovation, and helping shape the rules and narratives that accelerate the transition to a sustainable and inclusive global economy. In partnership with the University of Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership (CISL) and Investec. “Philanthropy works best when it catalyses the market mechanism—sparking something new, creating momentum, and then letting business, government and civil society take it to scale.” Leslie Johnston “I back really smart people in institutions that can still be here in decades or centuries. That’s how you create long-term impact—by investing in ideas that endure.” Peter Bennett Key Takeaways • Philanthropy’s unique value is the freedom to take long-term, risky and innovative bets • System change requires shifting incentives and power dynamics, not just fixing problems at the edges • Funding institutions, not only projects, creates lasting impact • Blended finance and mission-related investments unlock solutions traditional capital won’t back • Progress should be measured by contribution to system shifts, not ownership of isolated outcomes Credits Presented by: • Lindsay Hooper, Chief Executive, CISL • Marc Kahn, Chief Strategy & Sustainability Officer, Investec Produced by: Carl Homer (Cambridge TV) & Alexa Sellwood Executive Producer: Gillian Secrett In partnership with: Investec Listen and Subscribe: Available on all major podcast platforms or visit the Leadership Hub on the CISL website or Investec Focus for more episodes and insights. Disclaimer: The views in this podcast are those of the contributors, and don’t necessarily represent those of CISL, the University of Cambridge, or Investec, and should not be taken as advice or a recommendation. University of Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership [https://www.cisl.cam.ac.uk/] · Investec [https://www.investec.com/en_int/welcome-to-investec.html] · CISL Leadership Hub [https://cisl.shorthandstories.com/business-leadership/index.html] · Investec Focus Radio [https://www.investec.com/en_gb/focus/conversations-for-a-better-future/conversations-for-a-better-future-episode-1.html]