Karlton Butts: Attorney Development, Culture, and the Real Drivers of Retention

Jeremy Baker: Why Lawyers Must Get AI-Literate or Get Left Behind

What happens when a big law partner walks away from a “wonderful job” to build an AI-powered solo practice? In this episode, you’ll hear how one construction lawyer is using AI to slash hours of work to minutes—and why lawyers who stay on the sidelines risk being left behind.   In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jeremy Baker discuss: * Leaving big law to launch a solo practice * How AI is practically used in day-to-day legal work * Efficiency, billing models, and the future of big law * Ethical and strategic considerations around AI adoption * Encouragement for lawyers to experiment and get AI-literate   Key Takeaways: * You don’t need to be a coder to benefit from AI; the willingness to experiment and basic skills like copy-paste are enough to start transforming your workflow. * Tasks that once required staff support, days of delay, and high cost can now be compressed into minutes with the right AI tools. * Traditional big law business models built on leverage and large billable-hour teams are likely to face serious disruption as AI boosts individual productivity. * Market forces will push firms toward more efficient, smaller teams and alternative fee structures, rewarding those who embrace technology early. * Waiting for institutional permission or a “starting gun” is risky; individual lawyers must proactively get literate in AI to secure their future in the profession.   "The only skill that I really needed was the desire to get started, and then the ability to cut and paste, because there's no coding required to play with [AI]." —  Jeremy Baker   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Join the Be That Lawyer Community [https://fretzin.com/community/?utm_source=chatgpt.com] and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/   Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer [https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer] Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/] Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ [https://www.lawyer.com/]   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/]   About Jeremy Baker: Jeremy S. Baker is a Chicago-based attorney and the founder of Baker Law Group LLC, specializing in construction law, litigation, and alternative dispute resolution. Admitted to practice in 2002, he has extensive experience representing architects, developers, engineers, and property owners in complex contract negotiations and construction disputes. A former partner at ArentFox Schiff LLP (formerly Schiff Hardin LLP), Baker has served as an adjunct professor of construction law and is a frequent speaker and writer for industry organizations, including the American Institute of Architects (AIA) and the American Council of Engineering Companies (ACEC). He has been consistently recognized by Thomson Reuters as an Illinois Super Lawyer, a distinction he has held consecutively since 2019.   Connect with Jeremy Baker:   Website: https://designbuildlaw.com/ [https://designbuildlaw.com/], https://operationpalmtree.com/ [https://operationpalmtree.com/]   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremysbaker/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremysbaker/]   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://www.facebook.com/fretzinsteve] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Cooper Saunders: Turning Law Firm Marketing Into Measurable Revenue

Tired of paying for “more clicks” and getting zero real cases? In this episode, you’ll hear how strategic market research, real social proof, and case-study-driven content can turn a law firm website into a revenue engine instead of a digital brochure.   In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Cooper Saunders discuss: * The real goal of digital marketing for law firms (revenue, not clicks) * Market research and choosing markets you can dominate * Building targeted content around real client cases and questions * Personalization, video, and human connection on law firm websites * Social proof, reviews, and the “Dream 100” referral strategy   Key Takeaways: * Marketing success for law firms starts with showing up where people are already searching for the exact services you provide, instead of broadcasting to everyone and hoping for the best.  * Smart lawyers look for markets they can dominate, choosing niches and geographies with solid demand but manageable competition rather than jumping into oversaturated metro battles by default. * Case-based content that walks through “this client, this problem, this solution, this outcome” is far more powerful than generic articles that could apply to anyone and no one at the same time. * Prospects convert at a higher rate when they can see and hear the attorney: simple, honest video on an About page often beats polished but faceless branding. * Social proof, including reviews, testimonials, and concrete case studies, is no longer optional; it’s the proof skeptical clients need before deciding you’re the right firm to trust.   "I think the market research goes into identifying a pond you can dominate, rather than being a minnow in an ocean or fighting an 800-pound gorilla." —  Cooper Saunders   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Join the Be That Lawyer Community [https://fretzin.com/community/?utm_source=chatgpt.com] and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/   Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer [https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer] Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/] Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ [https://www.lawyer.com/]   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/]   About Cooper Saunders: Cooper Saunders is the owner and founder of WiseGuys Digital Marketing, a Kansas City, Missouri-based agency specializing in SEO and Google Ads. Recognized as a business growth expert, he has authored three national bestselling books—including Quit Competing Start Dominating and Marketing Secrets of the Ultra Wealthy—and hosts The Growth Secrets Podcast. Under his leadership, WiseGuys Digital Marketing operates without year-long contracts and was named a Kansas City Chamber of Commerce Small Business Superstar for three consecutive years from 2021 through 2023.   Connect with Cooper Saunders:   Website: https://wiseguysdm.com/ [https://wiseguysdm.com/] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coopersaunders/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/coopersaunders/]   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://www.facebook.com/fretzinsteve] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Fiona Stevenson: How Law Firms Can Win Clients in the First 2% of the Experience

A potential client rarely picks up the phone to call a law firm on their best day—and how that first moment is handled can make or break the relationship. In this episode, you’ll learn how to turn branding, digital footprint, and intake into a consistent, human experience that wins trust and converts more of the right clients.   In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Fiona Stevenson discuss: * Unreasonable hospitality and the “2%” difference * Brand vs. marketing for law firms * Defining mission, values, and ideal clients * Consistent intake and first-impression systems * Human connection vs. AI in client intake   Key Takeaways: * A law firm’s brand is defined less by its logo and more by what people say when the lawyers aren’t in the room. * Clarity on mission, values, and the types of clients you do and do not want to serve should act as a north star for all marketing and client interactions. * Consistency across every touchpoint (including your website, email, phone, live chat, and in-person conversations) is essential for building trust and a recognizable brand. * The first phone call often happens on one of the worst days in a client’s life, so warmth, empathy, and active listening are non‑negotiable in intake. * While AI can enhance efficiency behind the scenes, real humans at the end of the phone line remain critical to delivering the kind of experience that truly reflects a firm’s reputation.   "Brand is what people are saying about you when you're not in the room. You might not have even spoken to that person, and they've already got a perception about what your brand is." —  Fiona Stevenson   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Join the Be That Lawyer Community [https://fretzin.com/community/?utm_source=chatgpt.com] and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/   Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer [https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer] Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/] Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ [https://www.lawyer.com/]   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/]   About Fiona Stevenson: Fiona Stevenson is Associate Director of Marketing at LEX Reception. She brings 20 years of B2B marketing experience across SaaS, professional services, retail, and the public sector. Her particular interest is customer insights - she believes good marketing starts with an honest understanding of what buyers actually need. She writes about legal operations, client experience, and practical growth for law firms.   Connect with Fiona Stevenson:   Website: https://www.lexreception.com/blog/author/fiona/ [https://www.lexreception.com/blog/author/fiona/] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fionahstevenson/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/fionahstevenson/]   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://www.facebook.com/fretzinsteve] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Sherry Mason: Ambition, Prestige, and Knowing When It’s Time to Leave Your Firm

Stuck on the “wrong mountain” in your legal career but unsure what to do next? In this episode, career coach and former lawyer Sherry Mason breaks down how ambitious attorneys can separate prestige from true fulfillment, avoid burnout, and plan a smart, strategic exit instead of a panic-fueled leap. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sherry Mason discuss: * Ambition vs. prestige in legal careers * Skills, situation, and identity as sources of dissatisfaction * Burnout, autonomy, and control for lawyers * How spending 20% of your time on aligned work drastically reduces burnout * A five-step framework for planning a career transition   Key Takeaways: * Many high-achieving lawyers climb career “mountains” chosen for them by others, only to realize later that prestige alone doesn’t guarantee a fulfilling life. * Career dissatisfaction typically stems from one of three areas (skills, situation, or identity) and it’s critical to understand which one is actually driving your unhappiness before you make a big move. * Burnout often reflects a loss of autonomy and misalignment between daily work and personal values, not just long hours or compensation.  * Research suggests that if just 20% of your time is spent on the work that most lights you up, your risk of burnout can drop dramatically, even if the other 80% is less enjoyable. * A thoughtful, stepwise approach of clarifying your criteria, forming hypotheses, testing them through conversations, reaching the right decision-makers, and weighing trade-offs can turn a vague urge to quit into a strategic, lower-risk transition.   "You can do anything, but you can't do everything, and a lot of times we work on climbing to the top of a mountain, and sometimes it is a mountain that someone else has told us would be the right mountain for us to climb. " — Sherry Mason Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community [https://fretzin.com/community/?utm_source=chatgpt.com] and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer [https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer] Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/] Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ [https://www.lawyer.com/] Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/] About Sherry Mason: Sherry Mason is the founder and principal coach at Daymark Career Coaching, where she has been advising and guiding professionals through career transitions since 2005. Grounded in an 18-year background in higher education, her experience includes serving as the former Dean of Students at the University of Maine School of Law, as well as a decade working as a Career Coach and Pre-Law Advisor at Bowdoin College and Tufts University. She holds a B.A. in Geology and Geophysics from Yale University and a J.D., summa cum laude, from the University of Maine School of Law, where she graduated first in her class. Sherry brings a deeply multi-disciplinary approach to her practice, holding credentials as an Accredited Financial Counselor alongside specialized training in navigating transitions, public speaking, racial equity, and intergroup dialogue facilitation. Connect with Sherry Mason:   Website: https://daymarkcareers.com/ [https://daymarkcareers.com/] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherryfm/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherryfm/] Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://www.facebook.com/fretzinsteve] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Jimmy Lai: Turning LinkedIn into a Law Firm Growth Engine

In this episode, you’ll hear how an immigrant entrepreneur leveraged authenticity, storytelling, and smart content strategy to turn a resume platform into a powerful engine for referrals, hiring, and personal brand.   In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jimmy Lai discuss: * Using LinkedIn as an “Instagram” for lawyers and professionals * Immigration journey, E-2 visa risk, and launching a law firm from scratch * Clarifying goals on LinkedIn: clients, brand, or relationships * Authenticity, lived experience, and personal storytelling in content * Hooks, comments, and practical tactics to grow reach and engagement   Key Takeaways: * Treating LinkedIn as a place to learn, be entertained, and build real relationships can transform it from a static resume into a dynamic growth channel. * Before posting, get crystal clear on whether your primary goal is client acquisition, personal branding, or relationship-building, and let that drive your strategy. * Consistent content built around a few focused pillars and rooted in lived experience tends to outperform generic, “professional-only” posts. * Engagement doesn’t start with posting; thoughtful, value-adding comments can be the safest and most effective way to warm up and build relationships. * Sustainable business growth often requires letting go of the need to do everything yourself and delegating to capable people who can reliably handle 80% of the work.   "My big mistake as an entrepreneur was thinking that I'm the best at everything, and I need to do everything myself… we didn't hit exponential growth until I was ready to let go." —  Jimmy Lai   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Join the Be That Lawyer Community [https://fretzin.com/community/?utm_source=chatgpt.com] and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/   Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer [https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer] Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/] Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ [https://www.lawyer.com/]   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/]   About Jimmy Lai: Drawing from a diverse, multicultural background and a multilingual K-12 education spanning Taiwan, the United States, Japan, Germany, and England, Jimmy has always possessed a global perspective. This unique background, combined with his experience as an international student, fueled his passion for immigration law and his desire to help others achieve the American Dream. After earning his undergraduate marketing degree from the University of Central Oklahoma—where he was honored as the sole recipient of the prestigious Top Central Man award—he went on to complete his JD/MBA at the University of Oklahoma in 2021. Rather than taking the conventional route of joining an established firm as a junior associate, Jimmy co-founded Lai & Turner Law Firm PLLC in 2022 alongside his close friend Braden Turner to "do law differently." As the firm's managing attorney, Jimmy has guided Lai & Turner through rapid growth, expanding its services from immigration to include estate planning, criminal defense, real estate, and personal injury, all while ensuring every client receives premier representation rooted in the firm's core values.   Connect with Jimmy Lai:   Website: https://www.laiturnerlaw.com/ [https://www.laiturnerlaw.com/] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmylai-jdmba [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmylai-jdmba]   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://www.facebook.com/fretzinsteve] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.