The Ezra Klein Show

It’s our first subscriber-only “Ask Me Anything” of the year. The show’s executive producer, Claire Gordon, joins me to discuss your questions about the risk of a constitutional crisis and how Democrats, businesses and universities are responding to President Trump.  Thank you to everyone who sent in questions. And if you aren’t a New York Times subscriber but would like to be, just go to https://www.nytimes.com/subscription. [https://www.nytimes.com/subscription] This episode contains strong language. Mentioned: “A Democrat Who Is Thinking Differently [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/18/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-jake-auchincloss.html]” by The Ezra Klein Show with Jake Auchincloss “Don't Believe Him [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/02/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-trump-column-read.html]” by Ezra Klein Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast [https://www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-klein-podcast]. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs [https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html]. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts [http://nytimes.com/podcasts] or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

The so-called Department of Government Efficiency is great branding. Who could be against a more efficient government? But “efficiency” obfuscates what’s really happening here. Efficiency to what end? Elon Musk, President Trump and DOGE’s boosters have offered various objectives — cutting the deficit, eliminating fraud and abuse, creating a leaner and more responsive government. But DOGE’s actions in the past two months don’t seem to align with any of those goals. Santi Ruiz is the senior editor at the Institute for Progress and the author and host of the “Statecraft [https://www.statecraft.pub/podcast]” podcast and newsletter. He’s to my right politically and had higher hopes, at first, about DOGE’s efforts, but he’s now grappling with the reality of what it’s actually doing. This episode contains strong language. Mentioned: “50 Thoughts on DOGE [https://www.statecraft.pub/p/50-thoughts-on-doge]” by Santí Ruiz “How to Defend Presidential Authority [https://www.statecraft.pub/p/how-to-defend-presidential-authority]” by Santí Ruiz “The Anti-D.E.I. Crusader Who Wants to Dismantle the Department of Education [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/07/opinion/chris-rufo-trump-anti-dei-education.html]” by Ross Douthat Book Recommendations: Stalin’s War [https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/sean-mcmeekin/stalins-war/9781541672796/?lens=basic-books] by Sean McMeekin Back from the Brink [https://global.oup.com/academic/product/back-from-the-brink-9780197797778?cc=us&lang=en&] by Peter Moskos Power And Responsibility [https://archive.org/details/powerandresponsi027468mbp] by Romano Guardini Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast [https://www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-klein-podcast]. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs [https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html]. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Switch and Board Podcast Studio, Ryan Bourne, Rohan Grey, Don Moynihan, Quinn Slobodian and Jennifer Pahlka. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts [http://nytimes.com/podcasts] or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

To mark the release of our new book “Abundance [https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Abundance/Ezra-Klein/9781668023488],” my co-author Derek Thompson had me on his podcast, “Plain English [https://www.theringer.com/podcasts/plain-english-with-derek-thompson],” to talk about it. We’re on book tour right now, so we’re doing a lot of talking about this book. But this conversation is different. It’s just Derek and me, and we get into the story of how the book came together, and all the people and ideas that influenced us – a kind of intellectual history of the abundance agenda. And I thought the audience of this show might find this interesting too.   This episode of “Plain English” was recorded on March 11. Mentioned: “Abundance [https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Abundance/Ezra-Klein/9781668023488]” by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson “Abundance” book tour [https://www.simonandschuster.com/p/abundance-tour] “The Political Fight of the Century [https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/03/abundance-americas-next-political-order/682069/]” by Derek Thompson “The Economic Mistake the Left Is Finally Confronting [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/19/opinion/supply-side-progressivism.html]” by Ezra Klein This episode contains strong language. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts [http://nytimes.com/podcasts] or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

After the last election, there were all kinds of theories about where Democrats went wrong. But now, four months later, we have a lot more data – and it tells a few clear stories. David Shor is the head of data science at Blue Rose Research, a Democratic polling firm, which does an enormous amount of surveying of the electorate. A few weeks ago, Shor was walking me through a deck he made of key charts and numbers that explain the election results. And I thought this would be good to do in public. Because this is information that doesn’t just help explain what went wrong for Democrats in 2024. It’s a set of hard truths they need to keep in mind to mount a comeback in 2026 and 2028. This episode is also a bit of an experiment. It works great in audio. But on YouTube, you can actually see the slides. So if you’re up for a video podcast, this is a good one to start with: https://www.youtube.com/@EzraKleinShow [https://www.youtube.com/@EzraKleinShow] This episode contains strong language. Mentioned: Blue Rose Research slide deck [https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jnod5b2gq4w5fhmk91mzl/The-Ezra-Klein-Show-Blue-Rose-Research-Slide-Deck.pdf?rlkey=o6d9q04ir6h4vawfw6255dvft&st=ve39b6ew&dl=0] "Donald Trump is the perfect 'moderate' [https://www.vox.com/2015/8/15/9159117/donald-trump-moderate]" by Ezra Klein Book Recommendations: The Hollow Parties [https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691248554/the-hollow-parties?srsltid=AfmBOoqowRmwVhHmqR46awzOzeyYNEitK_IcZD237M021KBXw4Ntb8c2] by Daniel Schlozman and Sam Rosenfeld The Nature and Origins of Mass Opinion [https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/nature-and-origins-of-mass-opinion/70B1485D3A9CFF55ADCCDD42FC7E926A] by John R. Zaller The Victory Lab [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/215192/the-victory-lab-by-sasha-issenberg/] by Sasha Issenberg Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast [https://www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-klein-podcast]. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs [https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html]. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts [http://nytimes.com/podcasts] or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

It’s hard to understand the economic logic of President Trump’s tariffs. In our last episode, we tried, but with limited success. And that might be because the logic here isn’t entirely economic at all. So we wanted to spend an episode looking at Trump’s economic policies through a wider lens. Gillian Tett is a columnist at The Financial Times and a member of its editorial board. She’s also a trained anthropologist with a Ph.D. And she brings both perspectives into this conversation — exploring Trump’s policies as economics, as well as power politics, patronage and cultural messaging — which I think makes the whole thing make a bit more sense. Mentioned: “A User’s Guide to Restructuring the Global Trading System [https://www.hudsonbaycapital.com/documents/FG/hudsonbay/research/638199_A_Users_Guide_to_Restructuring_the_Global_Trading_System.pdf]” by Stephen Miran Book Recommendations: National Power and the Structure of Foreign Trade [https://www.ucpress.edu/books/national-power-and-the-structure-of-foreign-trade/paper] by Albert Hirschman The Economic Consequences of the Peace [https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/keynes-the-economic-consequences-of-the-peace] by John Maynard Keynes Debt [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/198598/debt-by-david-graeber/] by David Graeber How to Think Like an Anthropologist [https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691178783/how-to-think-like-an-anthropologist?srsltid=AfmBOop2DUZOfTJt56YL0LPtwS5hI1QK5CMmXTofwy6K_No_yQId8mtm] by Matthew Engelke Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast [https://www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-klein-podcast]. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs [https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html]. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker and Carole Sabouraud. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Pat McCusker. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts [http://nytimes.com/podcasts] or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.