How to Sell a French Top to Someone Who Has No Idea What It Is

Retail Council: TC5 vs. TR7, the DCS Stagnancy Problem, and Why Your Floor's Job Is to Inspire — Not Just Display

Shannon O'Hara and Jon Beresford are back with the latest from the Steel Cod Retail Council — anonymous responses from the owners, managers, and top salespeople on the retail side who you'd actually want to hear from if you could. Three questions this week, and all three have something worth sitting with. The TC5 vs. TR7 conversation came back pro-TC5 from the council, and Anthony is clear on why that happens — there's a very specific kind of conviction behind the classic agitation story and he genuinely respects it. But his camp is the TR7, and the reason he keeps landing there isn't about preference or aesthetics. The TR7 service call frequency is running significantly lower than the TC5 series. Once you have that data in your hands, the debate stops being emotional and becomes an engineering argument. He walks through who the TC5 is genuinely right for — it's a real answer for a real customer — and how to use the service data to have the honest conversation with a customer who has already sold themselves on the TC5 but maybe shouldn't be there. The word "stagnant" came up more than any other word when the council described DCS, and Anthony wants to spend a minute on it because it's probably the most important word in the whole episode. Stagnant doesn't mean bad product. It means the floor ran out of a reason to talk about you. The energy shifts, the enthusiasm shifts, and eventually the recommendation follows — toward the brands that keep giving something new to say. Alfresco winning the question isn't the headline. The reason is the headline. And there's a lesson in there for every outdoor brand with floor presence right now, including some that probably feel comfortable enough that they shouldn't have to worry. And then the pizza oven result — most of the council isn't displaying, selling, or seriously thinking about outdoor pizza ovens. Anthony uses that answer to say something he's clearly been wanting to say for a while. A floor's job is not to display what sells. It's to inspire. The products doing the most important work in a showroom are often the ones that never move the most volume. They're the products that open a door in a customer's mind — that make them start imagining a version of their outdoor space or their kitchen or their home that they'd never allowed themselves to fully picture before. And when that happens, the ceiling on what they're willing to invest becomes a completely different number. The dealer who builds that floor isn't just selling appliances. They're building something their competitors cannot replicate, no matter how similar their product selection looks. New episodes every day. Rate and subscribe wherever you listen. 🔗 Referenced this episode: → Julie Burns / Monogram episode: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-nsimf-1af9d49

Pellet Grill vs. Gas Grill — Why They're Not Competitors and How to Know Which One You Actually Need

The pellet grill vs. gas grill debate has been framed as a war. Jon Beresford says it never was one — and the industry's insistence on treating it like one has been creating customer confusion and ownership mismatch for over a decade. His position is simple: for the vast majority of households, gas is the primary outdoor cooking platform and pellet is secondary. Not because pellet grills are bad — some of them are genuinely phenomenal — but because the two things serve fundamentally different cooking behaviors that shouldn't be competing for the same job. Jon explains why pellet grills took off in the first place: they solved an emotional problem. Offset smoking had always required fire management, wood management, temperature babysitting, and a steep learning curve. Pellet grills lowered the intimidation barrier so far that anyone could smoke a brisket without becoming a pit master first. The internet celebrated that, long-form smoking content performed incredibly well, and the hype snowballed. But the internet's version of outdoor cooking and the reality of how most people actually use a grill aren't the same thing. The aspirational trap is real and common. People see the advertising, convince themselves they'll smoke everything, and buy in. Then Tuesday night comes and dinner needs to be on the table in ten minutes — and nobody is starting a pellet grill. That's the moment gas separates itself. Anthony speaks to this from product training days: he had to bribe salespeople not to smirk during pellet hamburger demonstrations while everyone waited 27 minutes and counting for the grill to come to temperature. The actual comparison that makes sense, Jon says, is a cast iron pan vs. a gas burner. Nobody argues that one replaces the other — they solve different cooking experiences entirely. Gas and pellet should be thought about the same way. Gas for speed, flexibility, high heat, and quick recovery. Pellet for low and slow, smoke, and long-form cooking. The salesperson who separates those lanes clearly — and helps the right customer see that they could have both — is doing better work than the one still pretending these two platforms belong in the same conversation. New episodes every day. Rate and subscribe wherever you listen.

Built-In vs. Freestanding Refrigeration — The Real Comparison, the Price Conversation, and When Freestanding Actually Wins

Built-in refrigeration versus freestanding is not a fair product fight. Jon Beresford says that from the jump — and Shannon agrees. But the point of this episode isn't to declare a winner. It's to lay out the conversation that needs to happen before any customer makes a decision on refrigeration they'll have to live with for the next decade or more. Jon covers what built-in actually delivers beyond the look — the longevity, the construction, the food preservation story, the ownership experience — and clears up what he identifies as one of the most persistent and costly customer confusions in the category: counter depth and built-in are not the same thing. Treating them as though they are is a setup for disappointment on both sides of the transaction. The price conversation is unavoidable here. Built-in refrigeration can run anywhere from two to ten times the cost of freestanding, depending on what you're looking at. Jon walks through how to have that conversation honestly without either overselling or underselling the value. The fence-sitter conversation is where things get interesting. Shannon assumed the line between built-in buyers and freestanding buyers was firm — you're on one side or the other, and crossing is nearly impossible. Jon pushes back. More customers ride the fence than salespeople realize. And the salesperson who steers a fence-sitter toward freestanding to save them money isn't doing them a favor — they're defaulting on the conversation in a way that tends to produce a customer who's quietly unhappy about it later. Refrigerator drawers also enter the conversation, and the case is made that built-in refrigeration without a drawer discussion is a missed opportunity almost every time. The capacity trade-off in built-in is real, and drawers solve for exactly that while opening a broader conversation about how the whole kitchen functions. Shannon's closer from her time in builder sales: open the bottom drawer, step back, and watch what happens. That was always the sale. New episodes every day. Rate and subscribe wherever you listen.

Third Rack vs. No Third Rack — The Trade-Offs, the Qualifying Questions, and Who Should Actually Get One

Third rack dishwashers have become the default — brands lead with it, salespeople sell it, and customers expect it. But Jon Beresford says the real conversation isn't whether the third rack exists on a dishwasher. It's whether the third rack is actually the right fit for the specific household standing in front of you. This episode covers what the third rack was actually designed to do, what the genuine trade-offs are, why some customers are better served without one, and why brand quality matters enormously here — because not all third racks perform the same way, and the difference between a well-engineered third rack and a mediocre one shows up in daily use pretty quickly. The trade-off that rarely gets named on the floor: third racks reduce clearance in the second rack, which matters for some households more than others. They also require a specific loading approach — a system-minded user who thinks about what goes where. Shannon's mom has a third rack dishwasher and treats every load like a magazine shoot, perfectly placing every item. Not everyone wants that kind of relationship with their dishwasher. Jon's wife doesn't use theirs at all, though the option to remove it is its own kind of solution. The qualifying question makes it simple: does this household run a lot of awkward-shaped items? Tall utensils, spatulas, serving pieces, oversized items that would normally hijack real estate in the main basket? Then the third rack changes the whole equation. Shannon puts it directly — the Forces are third rack people. They have Fisher & Paykel now, miss the third rack from their previous dishwasher, and the difference it made for oddly shaped items was real enough to feel the absence. The honest answer isn't one size fits all. And that's the conversation worth having before anyone makes a decision. New episodes every day. Rate and subscribe wherever you listen.

Mailbag #2: Attracting Next Gen Talent, Qualifying Like a Pro, and Why Independent Dealers Have an Advantage Nobody Can Replicate

Six audience questions, one mailbag, and some of the most direct answers Jon Beresford has given on the show. The opening question came from a sales manager watching the craft lose its appeal among younger people. Jon's response doesn't let the industry off the hook. The next generation isn't avoiding appliance sales because they lack ambition. They're avoiding it because nobody has given them a compelling reason to choose it. The pitch — boring product category, slow-building compensation, spec-sheet training, no clear career path — isn't a compelling one for someone with real options. The fix isn't finding better candidates. It's building a better case. On practical sales strategies, Jon directs listeners to the Saturday deep dives for depth and then gives the short version of where most salespeople actually break down: the first two minutes. The customer says refrigerator and the salesperson starts walking. They skip the part that makes everything else easier — understanding what the specific person in front of them is actually trying to solve for. Real qualification asks about the life the appliance is going to live in, and when that foundation is right, the price conversation stops being a defense and becomes a connection between a number and an outcome the customer already asked for. On Steel Cod, Jon makes the case that the podcast itself is a fluency builder — and fluency is worth more than any feature training because features inform while fluency convinces. Steel Cod University takes the same philosophy into 3-5 minute classes built specifically around positioning moments and real objections. He also teases an upcoming tool the entire team is more excited about than anything they've ever built — one that will change the selling conversation permanently. The episode closes with Jon's case for the independent dealer — structured, direct, and one of the most compelling arguments for the channel you'll hear anywhere. The independent dealer is the only person in the entire appliance buying landscape with no structural reason to mislead. Big box has inventory targets. Manufacturers have one product to sell. Online retail has affiliate revenue and no context. The independent dealer has one job: the right answer for the right customer. That advantage compounds. It builds through referrals and repeat business in ways competitors can never replicate — and it gets more valuable every single year. Oh, and the audience asked Jon what luxury brand he doesn't like. He almost answered. New episodes every day. Rate and subscribe wherever you listen.