The Highest Performance Strategy is Caring About People ft. Simon Sinek

Sports as Leadership Theater and Recognizing Near Enemies

Previously released on Dare to Lead, this is part of a special six-part series with Adam Grant on Brené's book, Strong Ground. They dig into the Buddhist concept of near and far enemies- and why the biggest threat to your values isn't the opposite of them, it's what masquerades as them. From there they move into discussion around the value of paradoxical thinking, why some tensions aren't meant to be resolved, and why sports are leadership theater. Plus a conversation about why future time is always undervalued. Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House [https://brenebrown.com/book/strong-ground/] The Near Enemies of the Heart – Jack Kornfield, n.d., jackkornfield.com [https://jackkornfield.com/near-enemies-awakening/] Almost Everything: Notes on Hope – Anne Lamott, 2018, Riverhead Books (Chapter 2: “Inside Job”) [https://www.amazon.com/Almost-Everything-Notes-Anne-Lamott/dp/0525537449] 12 truths I learned from life and writing – Anne Lamott, July 13, 2017, TED (Video) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X41iulkRqZU] Anne Lamott's thoughts on love, writing, and being judgy – Adam Grant (Host), April 16, 2024, ReThinking with Adam Grant, TED Audio Collective [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/anne-lamotts-thoughts-on-love-writing-and-being-judgy/id1554567118?i=1000652527856] Genius of the AND – Jim Collins, n.d., jimcollins.com [https://www.jimcollins.com/concepts/genius-of-the-and.html] Exploration and Exploitation in Organizational Learning – James G. March, 1991, Organization Science [https://strategy.sjsu.edu/www.stable/pdf/March,%20J.%20G.%20(1991).%20Organization%20Science%202(1)%2071-87.pdf] Putting Feelings Into Words – Lieberman et al., 2007, Psychological Science [https://sanlab.psych.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/31/2015/05/Lieberman_AL-2007.pdf] How to Tame Reactive Emotions by Naming Them – Mitch Abblett, 2022, Psychology Today [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/compassionate-warriors/202206/how-to-tame-reactive-emotions-by-naming-them] Maker's Schedule, Manager's Schedule – Paul Graham, 2009, paulgraham.com [https://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html] The Tush Push Explained – Kyle Brandt & Dr Neil DeGrasse Tyson, 2024, NFL (Video) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhIKA28BIRU] Togethxr’s ‘Everyone Watches Women’s Sports’ T-shirts go viral – Callie Holtermann, June 28, 2024. The New York Times [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/18/style/everyone-watches-womens-sports-shirt.html] Dr. Linda Hill on leading with purpose in the digital age – Brené Brown (Host), April 18, 2022, In Dare to Lead, Vox Media [https://brenebrown.com/podcast/leading-with-purpose-in-the-digital-age/#description] The Pre-Mortem Method – Gary Klein, 2021, Psychology Today [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/seeing-what-others-dont/202101/the-pre-mortem-method] Golden Eggs and Hyperbolic Discounting – David Laibson, 1997, Quarterly Journal of Economics (PDF) [https://dash.harvard.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/7312037c-7431-6bd4-e053-0100007fdf3b/content] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Courageous Leadership as a Daily Practice

In this Re:Thinking podcast episode recorded at Authors@Wharton, Brené joined Adam to dig into her book, Strong Ground. They explore why courage now has to mean being a learner instead of a knower, and why values aren't just what you care about-- they're what you sacrifice for. The conversation moves through the four skill sets of courage, why a value that isn't operationalized into behavior is just a poster with an eagle on it, and how to use the "story I'm making up" framework for hard conversations. They also get into executive presence, vulnerability, care, and why fake courage is easy to spot. Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House [https://brenebrown.com/book/strong-ground/] Research – Brené Brown (n.d.). [https://brenebrown.com/the-research/] The discovery of grounded theory – Glaser & Strauss, 1967, Aldine [https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/9781351522168/chapters/10.4324/9780203793206-1] Awareness of dying – Glaser & Strauss, 1965, Aldine [https://api.pageplace.de/preview/DT0400.9781351327916_A30546246/preview-9781351327916_A30546246.pdf] De-tabooing dying control – Thulesius et al., 2013, BMC Palliative Care [https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3602181/] Never Split The Difference – Chris Voss, May 24, 2016, TEDx University of Nevada [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjhDkNmtjy0&t=67s] Expectancy Theory (Victor Vroom) – The Decision Lab, (n.d.) [https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/psychology/expectancy-theory] Dare to lead: List of values – Brené Brown, 2018 [https://brenebrown.com/resources/dare-to-lead-list-of-values/] Dare to Lead Hub – Brené Brown [http://brenebrown.com/hubs/dare-to-lead/] Brené Brown brings Dare to Lead program to UT – University of Texas at Austin, 2020, UT News [https://news.utexas.edu/2020/02/04/brene-brown-brings-dare-to-lead-program-to-ut-as-new-visiting-professor-of-management/] Neural processing of narratives – Jääskeläinen et al., 2020, Frontiers in Human Neuroscience [https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/human-neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2020.00253/full] The New Rules of Executive Presence – Sylvia Ann Hewlett, Jan-Feb 2024, Harvard Business Review [https://hbr.org/2024/01/the-new-rules-of-executive-presence] The Gifts of Imperfection - Your Guide to a Wholehearted Life: 10th Anniversary Collection – Brené Brown, 2010 [https://brenebrown.com/book/the-gifts-of-imperfection/] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

The Highest Performance Strategy is Caring About People ft. Simon Sinek

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant sit down with their first-ever guest, Simon Sinek. Together, they explore the state of organizations globally, including the chaos hitting C-suites, the human cost of misaligned incentives, AI-driven layoffs, and leaders playing defense when they should be playing offense. They dig into what makes teams high-performing, why caring deeply about the people you lead isn't soft but essential, and what the military's culture of love and loyalty teaches us about business. The conversation also moves through nervous system regulation, shame and guilt in parenting and leadership, and what AI can or cannot replace about human connection. This episode is a reminder that the things we've been told to leave out of business, such as love, care, and human connection, may be the most important things we can bring to it. The Old Order Is Dead. Do Not Resuscitate — Sven Beckert, November 4, 2025, The New York Times [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/04/opinion/davos-neoliberalism-trump-tariffs.html] A Friedman Doctrine — Milton Friedman, September 13, 1970, The New York Times Magazine [https://www.nytimes.com/1970/09/13/archives/a-friedman-doctrine-the-social-responsibility-of-business-is-to.html] The Man Who Broke Capitalism: How Jack Welch Gutted the Heartland and Crushed the Soul of Corporate America—and How to Undo His Legacy — David Gelles, 2022, Simon & Schuster [https://davidgelles.com/the-man-who-broke-capitalism] ‘Take a simple idea and take it seriously’: Charlie Munger in his own words — Financial Times [https://www.ft.com/content/dbb1dbf4-9f2d-4305-a735-bc6f1424593b?syn-25a6b1a6=1] Jack Dorsey Blamed AI for 4,000 Layoffs. A Former Block Exec Says That’s Not the Real Story — Leila Sheridan, 2026, Inc. [https://www.inc.com/leila-sheridan/jack-dorsey-blamed-ai-for-4000-layoffs-a-former-block-exec-says-thats-not-the-real-story/91312392] Brené Brown on values, vulnerability, and playing to win — Adam Grant, December 22, 2025, Knowledge at Wharton (Interview) [https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/brene-brown-on-values-vulnerability-and-playing-to-win/] Threat-Rigidity Effects in Organizational Behavior: A Multilevel Analysis — Barry M. Staw, 1981, Administrative Science Quarterly [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/242540547_Threat_Rigidity_Effects_in_Organizational_Behavior_A_Multilevel_Analysis] Finding our strong ground, part 1 of 6 [w guest Adam Grant] — Brené Brown, September 17, 2025, In Dare to Lead. Vox Media Podcast Network [https://brenebrown.com/podcast/finding-our-strong-ground-part-1-of-6/] Start with Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action — Simon Sinek, 2009, Portfolio/Penguin [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/304046/start-with-why-15th-anniversary-edition-by-simon-sinek/] The mental game of tennis: A scoping review and the introduction of the Resilience Racket Model — Konstantinou, G et al., 2025, Sports [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/391070998_The_Mental_Game_of_Tennis_A_Scoping_Review_and_the_Introduction_of_the_Resilience_Racket_Model] The Inner Game of Tennis — W. Timothy Gallwey, 1974, Random House [https://www.amazon.com/Inner-Game-Tennis-Classic-Performance/dp/0679778314] Suppose We Took Groups Seriously… — Harold J. Leavitt, 1975, in Man and Work in Society [https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED103291] Leaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don’t — Simon Sinek, 2014, Portfolio/Penguin [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/311389/leaders-eat-last-by-simon-sinek/] Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversations. Whole Hearts — Brené Brown, 2018, Random House [https://brenebrown.com/book/dare-to-lead/] The Fifth Discipline: The Art and Practice of the Learning Organization — Peter M. Senge, 1990, Doubleday/Currency [https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Discipline-Practice-Learning-Organization/dp/0385517254] Developing Brave Leaders and Courageous Cultures — Brené Brown, Dare to Lead hub [https://brenebrown.com/hubs/dare-to-lead/] The Infinite Game — Simon Sinek, 2019, Portfolio/Penguin [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/547570/the-infinite-game-by-simon-sinek/] Brené Brown: Focus on guilt instead of shame — 60 Minutes, March 29, 2020, YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSrXxqKfYwI&t=1s] Children’s Proneness to Shame and Guilt Predict Risky and Illegal Behaviors in Young Adulthood — Jeffrey Stuewig (lead), 2015, Child Psychiatry and Human Development [https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4239200/] The Altruistic Personality: Rescuers of Jews in Nazi Europe — Samuel P. Oliner & Pearl M. Oliner, 1988, Free Press [https://www.amazon.com/Altruistic-Personality-Rescuers-Jews-Europe/dp/0029238293] The Toxic Handler: Organizational Hero—and Casualty — Frost & Robinson, 1999, Harvard Business Review [https://hbr.org/1999/07/the-toxic-handler-organizational-hero-and-casualty] Jensen Huang Says an Incorrect Nine-Year-Old Prediction About AI Shows Why It Won’t Destroy Jobs — CNBC, 2025, CNBC [https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/04/jensen-huang-cited-radiologists-to-dispute-ai-jobs-impact.html] Relational Job Design and the Motivation to Make a Prosocial Difference — Adam M. Grant, 2007, Academy of Management Review [https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Relational-Job-Design-and-the-Motivation-to-Make-a-Grant/f277b40083905f34ef3a25927c694fded573097c] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

AI, Commencement Speeches, and Why Human Thinking Still Matters | The Curiosity Shop

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant use this year’s booed commencement speeches as a launching pad to explore the role of AI in our lives. They dig into what some of those commencement addresses were missing: moral imagination, emotional honesty, and real empathy for the graduates. Brené introduces the concept of being “smitten with what’s written,” the trap of polished AI output that looks good but fails to move anything forward, and unpacks why writing is a tool for thinking, not just communicating. Adam proposes that signing your name on AI-generated content is an integrity violation, and together they work through how to give feedback, set expectations, and stay human in the middle of a technological transformation.  Show Notes: George Saunders Reflects on his Famous Convocation Address at Syracuse University (2013) - George Saunders, 2023, Syracuse University College of Arts and Sciences [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IJ6esk0LjQ&t=38s] Values and Messages Conveyed in College Commencement Speeches - Jenifer Partch & Richard Kinnier, 2011, Current Psychology [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225517397_Values_and_Messages_Conveyed_in_College_Commencement_Speeches] Don’t Be Afraid to Fall - Brené Brown, 2020 University of Texas at Austin (Commencement Address) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMV77xYdEa4] Make Your Bed – Admiral William H. McRaven, 2014 University of Texas at Austin (Commencement Address) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBQLFLei70] Through Disappointment You Can Gain Clarity - Conan O'Brien, 2011, Dartmouth College (Commencement Address ) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELC_e2QBQMk] Be True to Yourself - Ellen DeGeneres, 2009 Tulane University (Commencement Address)) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e8ToRVOtRo] The Importance of Kindness - Steve Carell, 2025 Northwestern University (Commencement Address) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgUntNCldAY] Make Failure Your Fuel - Abby Wambach, 2018 Barnard College (Commencement Address) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJe40l2waxs] Wolfpack: How to Come Together, Unleash Our Power, and Change the Game – Abby Wambach, 2019, Celadon Books  [https://celadonbooks.com/book/wolfpack/] 2026 graduates boo commencement speeches on AI - Eric Schmidt (Former Google CEO) University of Arizona; Gloria Caulfield (Real estate executive) University of Central Florida: Scott Borchetta (Big Machine Records CEO) Middle Tennessee State University, May 2026, PBS NewsHour [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgC874ARnX8&t=1s] Exploring the Paradoxes of Human Nature: The Stockdale Paradox Explained, Brené Brown and Adam Grant, May 28, 2026, The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tVqjcbs3io&t=2588s] Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit - Brené Brown, 2025, Random House [https://brenebrown.com/book/strong-ground/] A Whole New Mind – Daniel Pink, 2005, Riverhead Books (source of 'Symphony') [https://www.danpink.com/books/a-whole-new-mind/] AI-Generated “Workslop” Is Destroying Productivity – Kate Niederhoffer et al. (BetterUp Labs & Stanford Social Media Lab), 2025, Harvard Business Review [https://hbr.org/2025/09/ai-generated-workslop-is-destroying-productivity] The Biggest Tell That Something Was Written by AI – Eve Fairbanks, 2026, The Atlantic [https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/2026/05/how-to-tell-ai-writing/687345/] Quote Origin: I Do Not Know What I Think Until I Read What I’m Writing - Quoteresearch, 2023, Quote Investigator  [https://quoteinvestigator.com/2023/01/26/think-read/] Dare to lead glossary: Key language, skills, tools, and practices (including “Paint Done”) - Brené Brown [https://brenebrown.com/resources/dare-to-lead-glossary-key-language-skills-tools-and-practices/],  Pilots and Passengers – BetterUp Labs & Stanford Social Media Lab 2025, BetterUp [https://grow.betterup.com/pilots-passengers] The Ghost in the Machine’s Memory: A Teacher’s Lament - Hudson Mathew, 2026, AI & Society (A Socrates warning, voiced by Plato) [https://doi.org/10.1007/s00146-026-02981-3] The Enhanced Games – inaugural event May 24, 2026, Las Vegas (founder Aron D'Souza; doping-permitted competition) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Games] Atlas of AI – Kate Crawford, 2021, Yale University Press [https://katecrawford.net/atlas] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Why Toughness and Kindness Need Each Other | The Curiosity Shop

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant explore what happens when trust, vulnerability, grief, and performance collide. Using insights from the San Antonio Spurs and Gregg Popovich's leadership philosophy, they examine why caring deeply is an act of courage, how shame quietly undermines teams, families, and organizations, and how psychological safety fuels excellence. The conversation moves through ambition and rejection, miscarriage and loss, community, emotional intelligence and empathy, and the ways people show up for one another through life's hardest moments. This episode explores how strength and kindness are not opposites and why building cultures of trust may be one of the most important things we do. Victor Wembanyama on having Spurs legend David Robinson and Tim Duncan in the building - 2026, Yahoo Sports  [https://www.instagram.com/reels/DXVzGCaAgM_/] Armored Versus Daring Leadership, Part 1 of 2 - [https://brenebrown.com/podcast/brene-on-armored-versus-daring-leadership-part-1-of-2/] Brené Brown, 2021, Dare to Lead (Podcast) [https://brenebrown.com/podcast/brene-on-armored-versus-daring-leadership-part-1-of-2/] Victor Wembanyama Emotional After Spurs Advance to the NBA Finals - 2026, Bleacher Report  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXV6k-zFLww&t=60s] Goals research summary - Gail Matthews, 2015, Dominican University of California [https://www.dominican.edu/sites/default/files/2020-02/gailmatthews-harvard-goals-researchsummary.pdf] Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead - Brené Brown, 2012, Gotham Books [https://brenebrown.com/book/daring-greatly/] Ring Theory Helps Us Bring Comfort In [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/promoting-hope-preventing-suicide/201705/ring-theory-helps-us-bring-comfort-in] - Elena Sandler, 2025, Psychology Today  [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/promoting-hope-preventing-suicide/201705/ring-theory-helps-us-bring-comfort-in] Atlas of the Heart - Brené Brown, 2021 (Book)  [https://brenebrown.com/book/atlas-of-the-heart] U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy & Adam Grant on Loneliness - Murthy & Grant, Authors@Wharton, 2024, YouTube  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHzU5UFUv3M] Andrew Garfield on grief and the loss of his mother – CBS, 2021, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u_TswLQ4ws] National Survey of Gun Policy - Center for Gun Violence Solutions, 2025, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health  [https://publichealth.jhu.edu/center-for-gun-violence-solutions/data/national-survey-of-gun-policy] Empathic Joy and the Empathy-Altruism Hypothesis - Batson et al, 1991, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology [https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/1992-05357-001] https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/1992-05357-001 [https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/1992-05357-001] Human empathy through the lens of social neuroscience - Decety & Lamm, 2006, The Scientific World Journal  [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6795222_Human_Empathy_Through_the_Lens_of_Social_Neuroscience] The Making of an American – Jacob Riis, 1901, Macmillan  [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/6125] The Coach–Athlete Relationship Questionnaire (CART-Q) – Sophia Jowett, 2004, Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports  [https://bpb-eu-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.lincoln.ac.uk/dist/3/5895/files/2016/10/Coach-Athlete-Questionnaire.pdf] Bad Is Stronger Than Good – Roy Baumeister, 2001, Review of General Psychology  [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/46608952_Bad_Is_Stronger_than_Good] Scarred for the Rest of My Career? – Erica Carleton (with Julian Barling), 2016, Journal of Sport and Exercise Psychology  [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308202797_Scarred_for_the_Rest_of_My_Career_Career-Long_Effects_of_Abusive_Leadership_on_Professional_Athlete_Aggression_and_Task_Performance] The evolution of shame and its display - [https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10426012/] Landers & Sznycer, 2022, [https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10426012/] Evolutionary human sciences  [https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10426012/] Moral Emotions and Moral Behavior – June Tangney, 2007, Annual Review of Psychology [https://www.its.caltech.edu/~squartz/Tangney.pdf] The Inside Story of the Ever-Changing Brain - Brené Brown and David Eagleman, 2020, Unlocking Us with Brene Brown Podcast [https://brenebrown.com/podcast/brene-with-david-eagleman-on-the-inside-story-of-the-ever-changing-brain/] Unlocking the Mysteries of our Brain - Chris Anderson with David Eagleman, 2022, The TED Interview [https://www.ted.com/pages/unlocking-the-mysteries-of-our-brain-eagleman-transcript] Winning coaches’ locker room secret - Blanding on the research of Barry Staw, 2019, UC Berkeley Haas School of Business [https://newsroom.haas.berkeley.edu/winning-coaches-locker-room-secret/] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]