Working with Dinosaurs: Why AI Adoption in Law Is a Perception Problem, Not a Technology Problem | Legal Soundings EP06

When Sales Culture Wins: Inside the BD Program behind Benesch's decade of growth | Legal Soundings EP11

Sales culture in law firms isn't about turning lawyers into sellers. It's about the structures, incentives, and shared accountability that make growth a team habit — and Benesch has built one of the best. In this episode, Zena Applebaum is joined by Kori Fahrner (Business Development Manager, Benesch) and Beth Cuzzone (VP, Global Growth Marketing, Intapp, and co-founder of LSSO — the Legal Sales and Service Organization) to unpack how Benesch became the first firm to win two LSSO awards back-to-back. The conversation moves from the Team Everest rainmaker program and its 327% revenue growth, to whether that success is replicable, to why technology should be a system of action rather than a system of record — and the human relationships that AI frees up, not replaces. What you'll hear: * Why sales culture is about systems and incentives, not training lawyers to sell * Inside Team Everest: How a 19-partner program scaled past 35 and helped drive 327% revenue growth * Whether Benesch's results are replicable, or down to culture * Why recognition programs only work when tied to a broader culture * CRM as a "system of action," not a database — and AI as a coworker * The one non-tech tool every BD team needs: real transparency and collaboration * Lightning round: the biggest myths, what firms still get wrong, and the voice of the client Guests: * Kori Fahrner, Business Development Manager, Benesch Friedlander Coplan & Aronoff LLP * Beth Cuzzone, VP, Global Growth Marketing, Intapp; Co-Founder, LSSO Host: Zena Applebaum, Head of Marketing, Harbor About Legal Soundings: Legal Soundings is Harbor's podcast exploring how technology, leadership, and innovation are reshaping the business of law. Each episode features a rotating Harbor host and expert voices from across the legal ecosystem. Learn more about Harbor: https://harborglobal.com [https://harborglobal.com] Subscribe and turn on notifications so you don't miss the next episode.

You Can’t Buy Maturity: Legal Ops from Startup to Global Scale | Legal Soundings EP10

You can buy tools. You can’t buy maturity. That’s the throughline as two legal ops leaders at opposite ends of the scale spectrum compare notes on building a function that actually changes how a legal department works. In this episode, Kevin Clem is joined by Adam Becker (Director of Legal Operations, Cockroach Labs) and Donovan Bell (Head of Global Legal Operations, Intel) — both CLOC board members — to unpack what legal ops maturity really means. From standing up a function in weeks at a 500-person startup to keeping legal ops strategic (and not bureaucratic) across thousands of people and dozens of countries, the conversation gets honest about AI hype, retirement plans for old tools, and why legal ops is a contact sport. What you’ll hear: * Why maturity is a behavior change, not a checklist or a maturity-model score * The unglamorous first move that makes the fastest impact (hint: it’s about knowledge, not software) * “Barometer, not a barrier” — keeping legal ops strategic at global scale * Why every new tool should ship with a retirement plan for an old one * How to tell whether an AI initiative is real maturity or just more tech sprawl * Why “low-hanging fruit” is a myth — and what to chase instead * The one thing legal departments still get wrong about legal ops Guests: Adam Becker, Director of Legal Operations, Cockroach Labs Donovan Bell, Head of Global Legal Operations, Intel Corporation Host: Kevin Clem, EVP, Client Engagement – Corporations, Harbor About Legal Soundings: Legal Soundings is Harbor’s podcast exploring how technology, leadership, and innovation are reshaping the business of law. Each episode features a rotating Harbor host and expert voices from across the legal ecosystem. Learn more about Harbor: https://harborglobal.com [https://harborglobal.com] Subscribe and turn on notifications so you don’t miss the next episode.

The Future of CRM in Legal: Intelligence, AI, and What Comes Next | Legal Soundings EP09

CRM has been a fixture in law firms for decades — yet attorney adoption has dropped from 29% to 18% over the past year. Is CRM broken, or are we measuring success the wrong way? In this episode, Zena Applebaum is joined by Laura Saklad (VP, Legal Industry, Intapp) and Sarah Happy (Director, Marketing Technology, Harbor) to unpack where CRM stands today and where agentic AI is taking it next. The conversation moves from why "attorney logins" is the wrong KPI, to what an agentic CRM workflow actually looks like, to the realities of headless CRM in a legal context — and the data, governance, and trust problems that technology alone won't solve. What you'll hear: * Why CRM's biggest problem isn't software — it's data * What a real agentic CRM workflow looks like (and why lateral integration is a killer use case) * Whether attorneys will ever trust auto-populated data (spoiler: they already do, in places) * Headless CRM in legal — hype, reality, and why "headless horseman" isn't a great brand * Why governance is a people problem, not a technology problem * The one piece of advice every firm should hear before investing in CRM in 2026 Guests: * Laura Saklad, Vice President, Legal Industry, Intapp * Sarah Happy, Director, Marketing Technology, Harbor Host: Zena Applebaum, Head of Marketing, Harbor About Legal Soundings: Legal Soundings is Harbor’s podcast exploring how technology, leadership, and innovation are reshaping the business of law. Each episode features a rotating Harbor host and expert voices from across the legal ecosystem.  Learn more about Harbor: https://harborglobal.com [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa1VUM2NpUkkyVjNSQkQyMmpyWmRzcVNoUDl4Z3xBQ3Jtc0tsYkp3VXNHejRtMjdRRnRDRndabjJoVFlFa2ZEUFo4TDNEYzNKWXVhY0Q1eFUxV0JIYXJ6bUh3NTV3eVZsQ25YclpjaGYwaTd2V3B5X1hnVW4wdEpCOGRVdlZpTjMweVllMXJmZ1FpN0NqSC12d3hOaw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fharborglobal.com%2F&v=wq-y2y9innE]

The Fight for the Table Is Over. Now What? | Legal Soundings EP08

Legal operations finally won the seat at the table — but the table itself has changed. In this special CGI edition of Legal Soundings, host Lauren Chung is joined by CLOC President & CEO Oyango A. Snell and Organon's Stacy Lettie to unpack the 2026 CLOC/Harbor State of the Industry Report. The conversation moves past the old fight for legitimacy into the harder question: now that legal ops is part of the strategic core, how does it drive enterprise value? They dig into the productivity gap law departments are facing (rising demand, flat budgets, flat headcount), how AI has shifted from theoretical fear to practical force, the metrics GCs should be tracking but mostly aren't, and a candid look at what high-performing law departments will look like three years from now — including which work lawyers will simply stop touching. In this episode: * Why "the fight for the seat at the table" is over * The productivity gap: rising demand against flat resources * AI a year later — what's working vs. what's still aspirational * Benchmarking as a discipline, not an exercise * The metric every GC should track (but most don't) * What legal ops leaders should stop doing immediately Learn more at harborglobal.com [http://harborglobal.com].

Why AI Is the First Technology Lawyers Want | Legal Soundings EP07

Every technology leader in legal has lived through the painful rollout — the tool nobody asked for, the training nobody attended, the adoption curve that flatlined. So what's different about AI? For the first time, lawyers are coming to IT to ask how to integrate it into their practice. The built-in perception of value is already there. In this episode, Jeffrey Roach (Harbor Global) sits down with Evette Pastoriza (CIO, Mayer Brown) and Magdalena Suder (Director of Clients, Markets & Growth Operations, Ashurst) to unpack what that shift really means — and why having eager lawyers doesn't automatically solve the adoption problem. They discuss why "build it, and they will come" still fails, how to sell outcomes instead of systems, the psychological weight of asking lawyers to break workflows they've tested and trusted for years, and how to use AI's gravitational pull to lift adoption of less glamorous (but equally critical) tools. Magdalena closes with a practical three-part framework for any legal tech rollout: Diagnose the real barriers, stakeholder by stakeholder; Design communications tailored to those barriers; and Sustain through champions, measurement, and iteration. Key takeaways: * AI is the first legal technology with built-in perceived value — lawyers see it as non-optional, which is unprecedented * Perception matters more than reality: adoption is behavioral, not technical * Change management should start before the business case, not after go-live * Lawyers resist change not out of stubbornness but because they've carefully built trusted processes — breaking that trust is the real ask * Use AI's momentum to elevate the adoption of other critical but less visible tools (CRM, matter intake, BI) * Magdalena's Diagnose → Design → Sustain framework applies to any rollout, not just AI Learn more about Harbor: harborglobal.com [http://harborglobal.com]