From Pharmacy Student to Association CEO: Dr. Anthony Pudlo's Journey in Leadership
Introduction
What does it take to transform from a pharmacy student who “didn’t know what kind of pharmacist I wanted to be” into the visionary leader of a state pharmacy association?
In this conversation, Dr. Anthony Pudlo [https://www.linkedin.com/in/atpudlo/], CEO of the Tennessee Pharmacists Association [https://tnpharm.org/], pulls back the curtain on his unconventional journey from the community pharmacy counter to the executive suite. His story isn’t about following a predetermined path—it’s about staying curious, building authentic relationships, and learning to lead with both conviction and humility.
Anthony shares hard-won wisdom on navigating the complexities of association leadership: from his whirlwind first 90 days as CEO to orchestrating a complete organizational rebrand, from building diverse teams that challenge each other to knowing when to maintain your “best poker face” with legislators. But perhaps most importantly, he reminds us why philanthropy, mentorship, and simply “being a person first” are the foundations of sustainable impact in pharmacy.
Whether you’re a student exploring non-clinical careers, a practitioner considering a leadership transition, or an association professional looking to revitalize your organization, Anthony’s insights on calculated risk-taking, personal branding, and the power of a dollar-a-day commitment will challenge how you think about creating meaningful change in pharmacy.
This is a conversation about finding your place in the profession—and then using that position to lift others up along the way.
Interview
Sonja: Welcome back to the Script Your Future Podcast. This podcast is dedicated to advancing independent community pharmacy practice and developing the leaders of tomorrow. I’m your host, Sonja Pagniano. Today we have an inspiring conversation lined up with someone whose career path perfectly embodies the transition from dedicated student to influential association executive. Our guest is Dr. Anthony Pudlo, the CEO of the Tennessee Pharmacists Association [https://tnpharm.org/], or TPA as it’s commonly referred to.
Anthony has been a recipient of the 2006 NCPA Foundation Partners in Pharmacy Scholarship [https://www.ncpafoundation.org/partnersinpharmacy/] and 2007 graduate of Drake University. Upon graduation, he completed the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Community Pharmacy Practice Residency with Kerr Drug in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Since then, he hasn’t just built a successful career. He’s poured back into the profession, giving as a generous donor to the NCPA Foundation [https://www.ncpafoundation.org/] in the past, serving as a current generous NCPA PAC [https://ncpa.org/ncpa-pac] donor, and never relenting in his championing the community pharmacy profession and encouraging pharmacy students to consider a career in independent community pharmacy.
In August of 2021, he started in his current role at TPA [https://tnpharm.org/]. Having personally visited the association not too long ago, I can say that Anthony has truly breathed new life into the organization, overseeing a major building renovation and a complete branding revamp as well. We’re going to dive into that incredible transformation in a little bit...
In today’s episode, we want to find out what takes a pharmacy student to the helm of a major state association?
And more importantly, what critical lessons can up and coming pharmacy leaders learn from Anthony’s unique journey? Anthony, welcome to the podcast!
Anthony: Thanks, Sonja. It’s a pleasure to be here…
Sonja: So I want to take us back to when you were a pharmacy student. What were some of those pivotal moments or experiences that took you from pharmacy school to maybe advocacy and then later association management?
Anthony: Oh gosh, good question. It almost has to go back a little bit further, because even before I went to pharmacy school, I usually tell students and new graduates, I didn’t know what kind of pharmacist I wanted to be when I grew up. Actually, I didn’t even come from a pharmacy family, not even any other healthcare providers in my direct immediate family.
So when I went to pharmacy school, I was a sponge. I was getting involved in just about every organization just to learn the acronyms, learn the terms, learn what pharmacy practice is really like.
I was connected with a lot of upperclassmen as well and learning about what they were doing, maybe on rotations and things like that. And so I do remember a few upperclassmen, I think, saw that excitement of sorts or that curiosity in what I was looking at in the profession. And they quickly were like, hey, Anthony, you should come to a pharmacy conference, whether it was at the state level—I was going to school at Drake University—whether it was one of the association meetings at the Iowa Pharmacy Association, or I was involved with APhA and NCPA [https://ncpa.org/] and AMCP and ASHP. I was involved. I got involved a little bit with everything, but I just didn’t know what kind of pharmacist I wanted to be.
So when I think it was maybe my early foray into seeing what a mentor could do, because they’re the ones that encourage me to actually come. My first national pharmacy conference when I was in pharmacy school was the NCPA Annual Convention [https://ncpa.org/annual-convention] and started immediately learning about all the great things that pharmacists can do in their practice, especially in an independent practice where they have a little bit more flexibility and trial by error at times about how best to take care of their patients. So, you know, then I don’t want to say the rest is history because I was still trying to figure everything out.
And so yeah, for me, I think every year I was just getting more involved in different aspects of what the profession could offer and learning about it. Because I think most of our listeners probably know that pharmacy is practiced so differently across our country because of some of the nuances to the state laws. And so learning about everything I could that was going on in the state of Iowa, plus as I got connected with people outside of the state, it was kind of awe. I was like awestruck by what the profession can do and got me excited to get more involved.
Sonja: Well, it sounds like you’re a lifelong learner, and I have noticed that as a common theme among people who do really well in the profession, it’s this eagerness to want to learn new things and connect with more people, so that’s great.
I do want to talk a little bit more about connection. So in a traditional pharmacy role, your connection is typically with patients and the community. But when you’re the CEO of an association, your connection is with members and legislators and stakeholders.
So how do you adapt communication skills and relationship building skills to succeed in an environment like that if you’re used to more of like a traditional pharmacy type?
Anthony: Yeah, you know, and I come, I had more immediate work in the community pharmacy space throughout school and in my early days as a practitioner. And yes, well, I think you’re right. I mean, I think the communication styles differ, but I think in the end, you have to know your audience. There’s usually a phrase that talks about like, what’s in it for me? So you have to understand when you’re talking to somebody, whether it’s a patient, let’s talk about what matters most to them at any given time when they’re receiving counseling from a pharmacist.
Yes, maybe the Board of Pharmacy says you need to hit all these little check boxes, right? But you know what?
6:22 If you don’t address that immediate concern that patient has, they’re not going to listen to anything else you have to say. So you have to address that immediate concern. And I think that goes the same way when I’m sitting here talking to another pharmacist.
Now in Tennessee, our association runs the gamut in terms of the practice settings that we serve. So having to understand what is the issue of a large health system pharmacist or a pharmacy technician that works at an independent pharmacy or a pharmacist that works in a home infusion center, whatever it might be, you have to understand what is their primary concern. And then you try to interpret that and help them in any way you can.
And I think that’s ultimately what pharmacy school teaches us. You know, you have to understand a very complex thing like mechanisms of action, pharmacology and all of this, and the way that the medicines work, but you have to be able to interpret that, read the literature, interpret the mechanism of action, be able to actually use that information and then convey it to whoever that might be, a patient, a physician, a stakeholder, a legislator, whoever it might be. So I do think the skills in the end are the same, it’s just understanding what is in it for them? How do you make sure that their needs are being met as you communicate and understand what their concerns are?
Sonja: Absolutely. There probably are a lot of those skills that are transferable, and it’s just a matter of kind of honing those for the different environments.
So what’s a skill that you maybe relied on heavily as a pharmacist, right, practicing in a pharmacy that proved less useful to you when you became like an executive or worked in association management?
Anthony: That’s a really great question. And I don’t know if I have the best answer to it because I do feel like there is so many things that I was doing as a pharmacist that have made me who I am. And it may not feel like it’s exactly the same thing, but it’s ultimately helping me be the best CEO in this case.
Gosh, if you have to push me on this, I’m trying to really think, like, I don’t want to say like, I don’t, I’m not more empathetic because we totally are empathetic in our roles and who we talk to, right? But as a pharmacist, I feel like your empathy skills are so much higher on display.
I might say it this way. I think as a pharmacist, your conversations are so real and you get very deep with people. And I don’t want to say I don’t get deep with other conversations I have with people, but when you really are helping a patient and you know that patient throughout their course of their life, their family, their kids, their ups and downs in their life and how you as a pharmacist help. I mean, you get so much more really meaningful conversations in that regard on a very personal level.
And trust me, I deal with personal levels with our members. But I think in this role, at times, depending on who you’re talking to, you may have to have your best poker face and not show empathy one way or the other when you’re trying to say, our issue is this. Like if I were advocating to a legislator, we need to target exactly what our ask is and make sure that it’s clear and to the point. And you can’t get emotional. I mean, it’s hard not to, especially, I know how hard it is. Right.
But like, if you start, I guess if you start getting into the politics of politics, you don’t, that’s going to really derail how you want to accomplish. Like that’s ultimately you have another goal in mind that you have to focus on. And you have to do your best to have that poker face somewhat. It almost feels like you’re not being empathetic when you’re talking to somebody. But at the same time, though, there are some great legislators that I have personal relationships with that I can be a little bit more friendly with, if you will. But at the same time, it’s still something that you have the same when you’re staying on message.
Sonja: Yeah, not the same when you’re staying on message.
Anthony: Right right…
Sonja: So what’s a skill that you had to learn or like hone right away in association management that maybe you didn’t have yet as a pharmacist?
Anthony: It might even be saying the same thing as like having the best poker face. Like I usually carry my emotions out on my sleeves here and really get connected to people.
I think one thing that it maybe took me a while to agree to even want to serve in this kind of role as a CEO, and I guess maybe even my days as more of a practicing pharmacist, I was probably always just working as a staff pharmacist. I was never the owner. I was never the manager of the pharmacy. I might have been a manager of my clinic at times that I was helping oversee.
But I always felt like there was somebody above me that I could turn to and confide in or help work through a situation. And I have that too.
11:54 But ultimately, the decisions that are happening, the work that’s getting done, it does ultimately fall on me and how I work with my board and my leadership. But it is down to me. The buck stops here, if you will, but with a lot of great support around me.
So trust me, you’re never alone. There’s a lot of people supporting you, but it feels different when you’re kind of at the top, if you will.
Sonja: No, I completely empathize with that myself. I know. I’m very fortunate to have an exceptional board, and I think that’s maybe something people can take away from that is learning that a lot more responsibility falls on your shoulders, but it doesn’t feel as heavy or burdensome if you have a really good group of other leaders behind you to help move that work forward.
Anthony: Exactly right. Exactly right, Sonja.
Sonja: So thinking back to when you first started at TPA [https://tnpharm.org/], what were some of the biggest immediate challenges that you faced? Were they financial, organizational, maybe changing the internal culture? And how did you prioritize those challenges in your first 90 days? So if someone were going to start as an executive somewhere at an association, what are some of those key things that you took on that they could learn from you?
Anthony: There’s so many things. It’s a whirlwind, those first 90 days. At least for me, I would say, I was an, I’m not from Tennessee originally. Yes, when I worked in North Carolina, we did some minor work in the Tennessee area and I was licensed here. So, and I had familiarity with my predecessors before me. So there was some familiarity, but that doesn’t mean all the pharmacists and technicians in the state knew who Anthony was. So I really had to get out and about. And I remember my first 90 days.
The team here, the staff, really had laid out kind of this tour across the state for me to meet and greet as many people and let them know who I was, what my path to association work has been, what I know about certain issues, how I can be a resource. But at the same time, I think I’ve also realized that I think like in any situation where you may be paying dues into an organization, we probably needed to revamp our communications.
14:13 If people don’t know what you do, they don’t want to get involved. They don’t care to know. So we really focused on revamping our website, revamping our email communications, revamping our social media presence and our brand to really let people see and understand what we’re doing.
If you will, peel back the curtain of who TPA is, what we do on any given day to support pharmacists that are looking for an answer to a situation at any given point. So that’s maybe sometimes a challenge to it. But I think that was for me, getting out there, letting people know who I was. Yes, working with the staff at the time and accomplishing a whole lot. But then also really telling our story in the right way.
Sonja: Absolutely. I feel like branding is one of those things that gets like either pushed on a back burner or forgotten about or... So I think that’s like really insightful for you as a leader to have noticed that and taken that on because that is a lot of work.
So speaking about revitalization, so revitalizing an association requires really strong internal leadership. What qualities do you look for as a leader when building a team to champion your vision, especially for projects like building renovation or making changes to a brand?
Anthony: Yeah, you know, one of my favorite books, I’m sure people have talked about different leadership books out there. One of my favorites that I enjoy reading and still reading every now and then is a book called The Fred Factor [https://www.amazon.com/Fred-Factor-Passion-Ordinary-Extraordinary/dp/0385513518]. It’s basically a book about, trying to remember now, why can’t I recall the author? Mark Sanborn.
But it talks about how Fred is technically his mailman or postal worker and saying, hey, he went above and beyond what most people would think is an ordinary job, right? And I think any of us can probably look at our roles as just ordinary jobs.
16:20 Even some pharmacists might say, I’m just an ordinary person, right? Like you and me or whatever, just take care of a whole community. And I think really helping find people that might go above and beyond what’s in their job description or realizing, hey, I’m making this decision now, but in a couple more decisions later in a couple weeks from now, this might reveal another problem.
And so actually having people who can be independent thinking and kind of solution driven to figure out, hey, we’re going to have a problem somewhere down the line. How do we fix this now? Maybe bring in some efficiencies and maybe some technologies, whatever it might need to be, to make sure that that issue is solved now and doesn’t happen moving forward.
We went through, for example, we went through a brand new association management system, which any association person would say that’s like something they never want to go through again. Or maybe for a pharmacist listening, if you go through an EHR or a software change, I mean, you kind of want to do it once and you never want to do it again, right? And so I do feel like I remember working through, as we were planning for that, we thought about all the what-ifs. We tried to make sure we had all the what ifs covered, but there’s always things that are exposed later on. And okay, well, let’s find the solution now. Use your root cause analysis. Where did that problem come from?
And, the team, we got a great team here that was able to help us work through that. And the vendor was really great to work with to help us move that forward. But at the same time, it’s like, yeah, I think we’re good. I don’t want to ever go through that again.
But having a team that can be kind of that forward thinking, think through problems before they occur. But also even, I’ll just throw this last out there too, is you want a good, diverse team.
18:20 I think many people that are probably listening, you don’t want all the same types of personalities on one team. You need a diverse group of work ethic and personality… and it meshes. And you want to make sure you have that good diverse group.
And I think when I was at a point of hiring some more staff, you kind of look at that, right? Saying, okay, we have that kind of personality. I mean, this might be a really great candidate. I’m going to say like, we completely dismissed somebody that we were looking to hire. But yeah, you want a good group that meshes well, that you can trust that will have your back and that you can feel good about if you’re traveling somewhere to a conference or whatever, dealing with a legislator, whatever it might be.
So at least for me, I thought that was probably the most pertinent piece when we were choosing new team members but also making the most out of the team that we had at the time.
Sonja: That’s really great advice.
So many young leaders feel pressured to start new programs or initiatives. I’m sure you’ve experienced some of these kind of people in your time in this profession. So from your perspective, what does true sustainable impact look like in a pharmacy association? And how can young leaders measure their success and communicate it? Even if it’s not developing a new program or an initiative, how can they show their value?
Anthony: Yeah, I’ll probably reflect on that in a couple of different ways, but maybe the biggest one that comes to mind is like developing your brand, right? It’s, do you know yourself first and foremost?
20:03 Do you know what your passion projects are? I think I tell a lot of young pharmacists, like, yeah, you’re going to have to probably know everything when you have to sit down for the board exam, right, and be the expert on a little bit of everything.
But as you enter into practice, people are going to respect you more when you can sit there and know your limitations. When I was more in practice, I felt like just maybe due to the nature of my patient population, I was really focused on diabetes care, immunizations, and probably depression management, mental health. And I did everything I could to know everything I could. I knew the studies. I knew what a bill for services. You have to know yourself first.
And with a little bit of humility, though, you also have to know where your limits are and then where to turn to. And so not only do you know yourself, do you know what your other pharmacists in your community are good at? Maybe your own pharmacy, but even the pharmacists across the street or at the hospital. And I don’t know how many times I would have conversations with a provider or a patient that would say, Anthony, can you help me with this? I’m like, no, I’m going to know up to a point. I can help you up to a point. I can dig into more research and get you an answer, but you know what? You should just go call Sonja. She’s going to, she’ll help you right away.
And at the same time, Sonja would be really great about sending people my way. And we would have a really great collegial working relationship.
21:00 But yeah, you have to be the expert that you can in the topics that you choose. You can’t be an expert in everything, but at the same time, then when you start learning that those passions in your own area and your community.
I’ll tell you, it’s very easy then people start realizing that. And I would say during my time in North Carolina, then all of a sudden I became, I started getting asked to do presentations on immunizations or diabetes services. And it just became more and more. And then before you know it, you’re being seen as an expert or you’re communicating with other experts in the state on that topic. And then all of a sudden you get asked to speak at a national conference. So it starts with knowing yourself though, developing that brand.
And I think it’s the same way in association work too. I think I look at my colleagues across all 50 states and we all are good at different things and we all rely on each other. Some people are really good and understanding fundraising and the nonprofit foundation side of things. And I would say we all rely heavily on them to help us in those areas. Others are really good on understanding all the ins and outs on PBM issues. And their people know, and we rely heavily on each other.
Or others are really good at their advocacy levels. And how do you actually get the grassroots going? So I mean, I think we all need to know each other first and what we’re good at. And then from there, help each other out at the same time.
Sonja: I love that piece about, I think it goes back to connection where you’re saying like, some of it is like also knowing like who’s around you and like what their skillsets are and what their impact is. And then knowing how to connect those dots for other people. People notice that, people remember that. And then those can also be great references for you in the future too, probably. So…
Anthony: Right. And that’s, I mean, that’s kind of what in our roles in the association world, we’re never supposed to know everything, right? We can’t know everything. But I know who to call.
23:44 My job is to know who are my 5 to 10 people that I can call at any given day to give me insights on this topic or that topic or this topic. I mean, those are my experts in the field and they help me understand this issue that’s being presented to the association or the legislature or whatever it is.
Yes, our association might have policies and positions on things, but I still need to get in the weeds on certain things. And I’m really going to have every answer, but I need to know who to call when the time comes.
Sonja: Exactly. I know a lot of this stuff is drinking from a fire hose, I feel like.
Anthony: One or two of those.
Sonja: So, for a student who loves a profession but isn’t sure about traditional practice, what volunteer roles or leadership experiences would you recommend they seek out now to explore like the non-clinical side of pharmacy?
Anthony: Oh, sure. There’s a lot of different things. I mean, it’s sometimes it’s as simple as just reading an email and perking up to something that’s going on. Gosh, I feel like even early on, I think I just volunteer at times just to go help do introductions at a meeting, being like that moderator of a session. And I would get to meet people, right? And you’d understand how a meeting operates, right? There’s something simple like that.
25:00 Or I think early on when I was a student, I was always intimidated by going and speaking to a legislator, which is still funny to know where I am now, right? It is. For those first timers, even second timers, I still get butterflies at times, depending on who I’m talking to.
But I remember I had a friend that said, hey, Anthony, you know, what are the associations doing just like these free, like they’re doing screenings at the Capitol? Why don’t you come? And I was like, I pushed it aside for a year. I was like, I’ll do it next year. Okay, I finally went. And then you just, you’re a pharmacist in that sense. And I’m like, yeah, I’m taking a blood pressure. I’m doing a blood sugar screening. I’m counseling on proper medication disposal, whatever it is. And before you know it, you realize you’re talking to the Senate majority leader or whoever it might be. And you’re like, no, they are just a person that’s trying to learn just as much as anybody else is. And before you know it, you are able to get involved that way.
Yeah, I mean, I think there’s a little bit of everything. I mean, I think most associations are going to have some committees that are maybe lesser, just like minor amount of work. Sometimes it’s just planning of events. We have more than enough events that we need help and volunteers to deal with things. So yeah, it just really depends. I’d say start small. Don’t just jump right into the deep end.
Some of us sometimes get looped into those things. I think when I was a student, I somehow went to a meeting and I got immediately told I am now serving on the board of the association as a student because I said yes to someone. And I mean, I think I did very fine in that role, but I think I was involved in a few things, but I had no idea what I was getting myself into right away and then quickly had a lot of great mentors guiding me through the way. But yeah, start small, get your toes wet in different ways.
27:09 But at the same time, I usually tell students, don’t forget to have a personality. Like still go be a human being and have fun and do other things. It’s going to make you a better well-rounded pharmacist and a more well-rounded individual to engage in the profession and the professional associations.
I rely heavily on a lot of people that have a lot of expertise in planning events and other things than I ever have known to do. So yeah, you have to be a person. You have to get involved and know what’s going on in your community and your state and whatnot.
Sonja: I love that advice, remember to be a person first. Yeah. Like you are important too. Or like what they say, fill your cups first or like put on your oxygen mask first kind of thing.
Anthony: Yes.
Sonja: So you’ve been a generous donor to the NCPA Foundation in the past and NCPA PAC [https://ncpa.org/ncpa-pac] currently. And so you understand personally the importance of philanthropy and supporting the profession of independent community pharmacy, for example. How does philanthropy, whether of time or money, directly support the advocacy work that TPA and other associations like NCPA [https://ncpa.org/about] are focused on? And how would you maybe explain the ROI of giving back in those ways or paying it forward?
Anthony: Yeah. How do I start on this one? That’s another great question.
I’ll say we are not anything without our members. TPA [https://tnpharm.org/] is nothing without our members. Anthony Pudlo is not TPA.
TPA is its members just as much as NCPA and the foundation are, right?
And I think in my course of my life at the same time, I think I’ve been the benefactor of a lot of people always paying it forward and giving back and recognizing that we are all on this planet, very short, right?
We hope we can make a lasting impact in different ways, but how we best guide the next generation is so important. And so I’ve been very fortunate to have a lot of people that have supported me and encouraged me to do more, try different things, fail, learn from my failures, and keep moving forward.
And yeah, ultimately, financially, as a pharmacist, you do pretty well. And none of this can happen without money. And I think early on, maybe I started by just saying yes to simple, some of the colleges I think do this where maybe it’s a white coat sponsor, right? You pay 50 bucks, 100 bucks, right? And I think it starts small, like, hey, I can manage that. Yes, I’m paying back my loans. I’ve got a lot of stuff going on. But somebody there at that place made an impact on me and I want to pay it forward in some way, shape or form. And then I think it became, you know what, for a dollar a day, I can support what is going on with XYZ group.
And I talk about that a lot. I mean, think about how many useless things some of us probably spend money on.
Sonja: Oh yeah.
Anthony: A dollar a day to ensure that the profession is able to be supported and move forward. Yes, I know there’s some people who are just talking about getting involved and some people won’t give unless they’re getting involved. Great, I have avenues for that to happen, but at the same time, what, if you can’t do anything but give us a check, that works too.
But in the end, I always hope as in my role, especially that we’re doing things that people can see that giving back to our organization is a meaningful endeavor for them. And the fact that they actually give a meaningful amount of money back. So in a way that, and I’ll say it in this way, is that TPA should be, or at least our foundation or a PAC, whatever it might be, is in your top three. To me, that is a meaningful group in your mind.
31:21 So how do I make sure that what we’re doing, how we’re serving the profession is in somebody’s eyes in the top three of groups that they would ever give to?
So is it our scholarship fund? Is it our advocacy efforts?
Is it our program for helping pharmacists in recovery?
What is it that maybe strikes a chord with somebody that puts our organization into the top three in their mind?
And so that’s some of the stuff that we’re always trying to tell that story and helping people see that we are making a difference, but we also need help financially to continue to make that difference.
Sonja: Absolutely. And I think it is so hard right now, right? Especially for independent community pharmacy owners, but it’s still so important to make sure that the profession is also supporting itself, right? Because as much as we can pull in outside dollars, the profession itself can do so much more when everybody’s fighting together.
Anthony: Yeah… We’ve been very fortunate in a short amount of time that I’ve seen here. And even I tip my cap to a lot of my predecessors along the way. You know, we’ve been very fortunate. We’ve been very successful legislatively at the state level. And there’s some very, very tangible things that I can point to people to say, we have improved the way the finances of your pharmacy, of your practice setting, whatever it might be.
And yes, we might have to point and prod and show people that further, but there has been a lot of tangible ways that the things we’ve done legislatively or regulatory wise has made an impact on how pharmacists can practice and how they want to practice. So it’s like, okay, yes, this doesn’t come easy. And we could have done a whole lot more if we would add more support.
So like those are the kind of things that I know it’s just it ends up coming back to what how do we convert that into saying, how meaningful was this to you? Was it a dollar a day? Was it $5 a day? Was it what was it? But hopefully we made a meaningful impact on your life on your day-to-day that will make you pull out the checkbook or the credit card or the Venmo, whatever it might be to support the organization.
Sonja: Yeah. And everyone’s different, right? And how much they can give and what they’ll give for and what means the most to them. But I really like that you phrase it that way of like, are we in your top three? I think that really kind of reframes the whole thing.
So when you think about something like a major building renovation or a rebranding, there’s a lot of risk involved. So what advice do you have for young leaders on calculating and taking professional risks that can lead to significant positive change?
Anthony: Oh, goodness. You know, as pharmacists, I’d say for the most part, we’re all pretty risk averse, right? We try to play nicely in the sandbox. We don’t want to mess with too much. And it sometimes makes us freeze in the moment, right? You have opportunities where you could take path A or path B, and you’re almost so frozen in making your decision that you don’t know which way to go.
Another great book that I’m sure some have read is Sheryl Sandberg’s book, Lean In. And I know it’s a lot of undertones about women in the workplace. And yes, it has a lot of connotations in that regard, but there’s so much in there about how there’s data to support, how in certain situations, women may not push themselves to say yes to something. And one of their pieces that I love about that is they talk about creating lean in circles, a group of mentors or a trust circle, however, whatever, you can throw some movie references in there to circle and trust.
35:32 But, you know, do you have the right people that can help you? Not necessarily always in pharmacy. Actually, sometimes it’s better to have people outside of the industry help you understand like, yeah, you are thinking through this decision in the right way.
And you thought at least about some of the what if situations that might cause risk.
And so I think for me, I’m going to circle back not just to my executive committee, but I work really closely. There’s in all the states, there’s our colleagues at the American Society of Association Executives, and there’s state chapters. I’m currently pretty active in the Tennessee version of that group. And so I’m interacting with the CEOs of the Bankers Association, the Nurses Association, the concrete workers. And we’re all dealing with similar situations. Not that they’re going to be able to sit there and tell me, yes, do that or do that. But they help. They really do help make sure that the thought process is going in my head, the conversations I’ve had with my leadership, I’m thinking through this the right way.
And so I encourage people, like have a small group. Yes, you’re probably going to have some faculty mentors. You’re going to have some preceptor mentors or maybe some classmates that can be your mentors, but also find some people outside of your normal circles that you can ask and be very truthful about. Hey, am I thinking about this the right way? So you do not freeze and you actually make that decision in the right way.
And trust me, there’s more than enough decisions we make that are wrong too. So then you go back to those mentors and say, gosh darn it, like it didn’t work out. Well, what did you learn?
37:13 And if you don’t learn something from that situation, then you’re really causing yourself more problems. But you have to understand that even if the choice that you made doesn’t work out, there’s something to learn.
And I even say I have that conversation with students when they choose their career paths. They sometimes feel like they’re taking a kind of a cop out by doing any work in certain areas of the profession. Like, no, there’s things to learn in those areas. Maybe put a time frame on it and make sure you have a right plan moving forward.
And so, yeah, I do think have a right group of people around you. And where to find those, hey, you know what, there’s associations that can help connect the dots and make you find people that you may are not always familiar with. So that’s usually where I tell students also, like, get involved at the local district, regional level. There’s a lot of associations that way. Then you can get more comfortable getting involved at the state level. And then before you know it, you’re very well connected in the national level too.
Sonja: That’s really good advice. Making sure you have a circle too of trusted people that aren’t necessarily in the field that you’re in, but can kind of relate to you on that level and can give good advice. I love that. I think that’s really, really good for people to know about.
So who are three other state executives that you’re admiring or following and what are the three states that you’re following right now?
Anthony: Oh my goodness. Well, I think most states right now, if we’re following anything related to PBMs, we’re probably all following our good friend John Vinson [https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-vinson-532a8210/]over in Arkansas. John is, well, I know he’s had some great predecessors beforehand and great engagement and so much positive happening for the profession over there. And partially as just a neighboring state, something that I’ve always known in our southeast region, our legislators tend to only listen and follow what’s going on in our neighboring states. So I am always doing my darnedest to follow John and he’s a great mentor and friend.
Another great mentor and friend, I would say, well, can I do like, can I do two possibly in this regard? There’s a lot, there’s so many good state execs, but similar paths that we’ve taken, partially because I was working at the Iowa Pharmacy Association [https://www.iarx.org/] for several years in not the CEO capacity, but kind of the VP role. There’s other state execs that were in very similar paths and have ascended into the CEO role. And so I look at the Sara Sorum [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-sorum-pharmd-cae-29273355/]s of the world over at the Pharmacy Society of Wisconsin [https://www.pswi.org/] and Jenny Arnold [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyriddell/] over in Washington State [https://www.wsparx.org/]. We’ve kind of followed, we’ve had similar career paths and it’s really great to see them doing what they’re doing and their associations. And it’s just amazing.
And then, oh gosh, I feel like I’m going to forget people here, but there’s a whole group of great state execs. But I think one that I... there’s a couple states that I think are relatively new and how they’re having to bring people together. And I look at people like Ken Kunke [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenneth-kunke-b2b7489/] in Nevada who really work diligently to really form Nevada’s [https://nevadapharmacyalliance.com/about/] association to a very meaningful organization. And there’s things he’s doing that I don’t know how I can even fathom doing some of those things when you’re building something almost from scratch. And it’s so amazing.
I think, there’s people that have been doing this in associations that are well established for years and others that are fresh and learning as they go.
41:11 And it’s so cool to kind of see all of us learning from each other, empowering each other to do more.
And yeah, so I’ll just say all 50 states. Can I say that? All 50 states.
Sonja: Yeah, sounds right.
So thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. If a listener wants to find you, where is the best place to do that?
Anthony: Oh, gosh, I’d like to sit here and say that I’m like really active on social media myself. I probably would say follow TPA on social media, and you’ll be able to find me that way. But I’m on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/atpudlo/], so easy to find me there. That’s probably the best avenue. And may not respond as quickly. Just say, look at where TPA is and you’ll figure out where Anthony is traveling around the state or the country or whatnot.
Sonja: Super. Well, thanks so much again for joining us.
Anthony: No, thank you so much. This is fantastic and appreciate everything you’re doing.
Sonja: Thanks.
Episode Summary
In this episode of Script Your Future, host Sonja Pagniano sits down with Dr. Anthony Pudlo, CEO of the Tennessee Pharmacists Association, to explore his journey from pharmacy student to association executive. Anthony shares invaluable insights on developing leadership skills, building diverse teams, and creating sustainable impact in pharmacy associations.
Anthony emphasizes the value of being a “lifelong learner,” staying curious, and remembering to “be a person first” while building a meaningful career in pharmacy leadership.
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