LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP

The Strength Within - Mitch Torrel ’14

Great leaders don’t always have the answers. But they know how to build teams that do. SUMMARY In this episode of Long Blue Leadership, Mitch Torrel ’14 discusses the power of mentorship, constructive feedback, humility and creating an environment where everyone can contribute. His leadership lessons are just as relevant in the boardroom as they are on the battlefield. MITCH TORREL'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS 1. Lead Through Fear, Not Around It Even when you’re anxious or scared, keep moving forward and executing the mission; courage is acting despite fear, not waiting for fear to disappear. 2. Trust Your Preparation When you hit uncertainty, fall back on the work you’ve already put in — physical, mental, and technical — rather than spiraling about what’s coming next. 3. Focus on the Team to Get Out of Your Own Head Shifting your attention from your own anxiety to how you can support and elevate others makes hard environments more endurable and improves performance. 4. Discover You Have “More in the Tank” Don’t treat real missions or selections like workouts; push past your comfort ceiling and you’ll find reserves of mental and physical capacity you didn’t know you had. 5. Break Big Fears into Small, Daily Gains You don’t need to be the best today — just better than yesterday; attack weaknesses with small, consistent, incremental progress. 6. Leverage Mentors and Learn Aggressively Assume you’re not the first to face a challenge. Seek out people who’ve done it before and copy their mindset, preparation and frameworks to shorten your learning curve. 7. Make Feedback Normal, Specific, and Frequent Build team habits where everyone gets clear strengths and weaknesses surfaced (even anonymously at first), then use trends in that feedback to drive personal change. 8. Balance Urgency with Deliberate Planning In crises, don’t rush in just because the situation is urgent. Pause to gather facts, build a simple plan and avoid making the emergency worse. 9. Use Your Team’s Brains — Don’t Lead Alone As a leader, your job is to facilitate: Draw out the quiet voices, aggregate the best ideas, and delegate execution rather than trying to be the sole problem-solver. 10. Set Clear Standards and Red Lines Early Explicitly communicate what you will and won’t tolerate so you can enforce discipline fairly and consistently, protecting both people and mission over the long haul. CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Opening: Leading Through Fear 00:01:27 – Special Tactics Pipeline: Anxiety, Night Sweats and Uncertainty 00:03:50 – Trusting Preparation and Learning to Hate the Water Less 00:05:40 – Shared Hardship and Team Bonding in the Pipeline 00:07:27 – “More in the Tank”: Rucks, Mental Toughness and Selection 00:11:14 – Learning from Others, Mentorship and Owning Weakness 00:15:36 – Five Traits Torrel Looks for in Leaders 00:19:49 – Feedback Culture, Blind Spots and High-Performing Teams 00:25:34 – Thai Cave Rescue: First Mission and Leading Under Pressure 00:29:59 – New Leaders, Delegation and Facilitating the Team 00:36:34 – Failing, Standards and Command Red Lines 00:40:24 – Advice to Younger Self and Enjoying Each Season 00:43:25 – Transition to Business, Ongoing Service and Final Leadership Charge ABOUT MITCH BIO Mitch Torrel, U.S. Air Force Academy Class of 2014, is a former Division I hockey player, Air Force Special Tactics officer, entrepreneur and founder of Sentry Operations. After beginning his Air Force career in pilot training, Torrel found his calling in special operations, completing the demanding Special Tactics training pipeline and serving in operational and leadership roles. While stationed in Okinawa, Japan, Torrel served as operations officer for the U.S. team supporting the 2018 rescue of 12 young soccer players and their coach from a flooded cave complex in Thailand. The experience, his first operational mission, became one of several defining chapters in a career shaped by high-stakes decision-making, teamwork, resilience and leadership under pressure. CONNECT WITH MITCH LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mitch-torrel/] | SENTRY OPERATIONS [https://sentryoperations.com] CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor: ted.robertson@usafa.org [Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org] Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org [socialmedia@usafa.org] < ----- > Ryan Hall | Director: ryan.hall@usafa.org [Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org] Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor: bryan.grossman@usafa.org [Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org] Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer: wyatt.hornsby@usafa.org [Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org] ALL PAST LBL EPISODES [https://usafa.org/LBL] | ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS [https://www.podbean.com/podcast-network/longbluelinepodcast] AVAILABLE AT USAFA.ORG/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP [http://usafa.org/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP] AND ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS: Guest, Mitch Torrel ’14 | Host, Lt. Col. (ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99 Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz 0:01 Sometimes leadership isn't about eliminating fear; it's about learning how to move forward, even if fear is sitting right next to you. I'm Naviere Walkowicz, Class of ’99. Long Blue Leadership starts now. Today's guest is Mitch Teorrel, 2014 graduate of the Air Force Academy, former Division I hockey player, Air Force special tactics officer, also an entrepreneur near the founder of Century Operations. You know you've had a unique career. In fact, many probably know a lot of your work when it comes to an international rescue event, and we'll talk about that later on. But I think what's most exciting about this time with you, Mitch, is how you continue to lead, but you've done it through what some would call overcoming fear or maybe leading through fear. And so I think we're going to have a fantastic conversation today, and I welcome you to Long Blue Leadership. Mitch Torrel 0:53 Naviere, I appreciate you for having me out. Humbled to get the opportunity to kind of share some stories today, and so I'm looking forward to it. Thank you. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 1:01 Well, thanks for the time. We're going to jump right in with the time that you know when we had a chance to talk, Mitch. It was something that kind of surprised me, and I think others will really appreciate this. You know, when you're going through your Air Force special tactics training to kind of be in that role, you experience like night sweats and literally having to change your clothes at night. And I'm looking across to you. You're not sweating right now. You're looking pretty cool and calm. And so take me back to that experience, and let's just start there. Mitch Torrel 1:28 Yeah, pipeline is a pretty arduous process. It's two years; every day is a grind. It's difficult. You're not really sure what tomorrow holds, and they keep it that way, pretty close hold. You don't know what you got tomorrow. You just know it's going to be an early rise, and it's going to be really physically taxing. It's going to be mentally demanding, and you're not sure if. I think part of the anxiety is, do I mentally have what it takes to withstand and with withhold another day? Do I physically have what it takes to continue to drive on, and I think that unknown, the unknown on what's to come, am I going to be enough? The two years is a selection process, so you're getting assessed and selected every day, and it's a lot of anxiety to take on because you're not sure how you're going to perform. I think a lot of us have such internal pressures on ourselves to perform in and out every day that it makes it very difficult to get out of your mind and not worry about the anxiety of what's coming tomorrow. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:29 Well, it makes me think the closest thing that I can think of right at this moment is you know basic cadet training, which is six weeks, and you just talked about two years of uncertainty and not you know waking up early and not knowing what's next. You know, how did you kind of navigate through that? I think we all know how we navigated through BCT, but I think certainly this is much when it's something that's so enduring. I think that's a different situation. Mitch Torrel 2:51 I think a part of goes back to just trusting in your preparation. Did I do what it took to prepare? And if you did, if you didn't, there's not much you can change the night before, and so trusting in your abilities, your ability to adapt, your ability to withstand. I think I hated the water, and they always told you going through the pipeline. If you don't love the water, you're not going to make it through. And I'm a testament to I hated the water every day, dreaded it almost on a daily basis. But you know, learn to overcome and deal with that anxiety and just pressure that it brought. But every day is an opportunity to kind of build that wall up. Your ability to withstand, your ability to deal with anxiety, your ability to deal with the unknown, and I think the pipeline was a really good opportunity for me to kind of grow. I remember when we were in Mississippi, one of the earlier schools. It's three months. Every day was again very arduous. You didn't know it was coming. Are they going to put us in a pool tomorrow? Am I going to drown? You know, am I going to be able to make it through? Am I going to do a good job of leading the team? I think being able to focus on the team allowed me to not worry about myself and kind of focus on something else. And I think worrying about others allowed me to really make it through some of those arduous times, and that was very helpful to me. I remember I probably took a lot longer to grow to the point where you know you're not worried about tomorrow. I used to have to wake up at night, change my sheets, change what I was wearing, you know, and that happened every night because I would just wake up in a dead sweat and I was soaking wet, and eventually, you know, through exposure and through time, you learn to just exist and not worry about what's coming tomorrow. And it's a constant evolution. You know, that's not to say I don't get anxiety about things that are happening tomorrow today, but you start to learn to head off those thoughts early on and allow yourself to just take what comes tomorrow. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 4:57 So I'm thinking about you being in those moments, and when you said it was probably later on, I'm curious as how you know that every night you're changing your sheets, you're going through that. But I'm curious, were there others that were experiencing the same thing, or were others even helping you through navigating those thoughts that you had? Mitch Torrel 5:14 I think just being in a team environment makes things so much better. Sharing in in in the suffering, sharing in the stories, and getting to reflect on that. When I look back on the pipeline, what an amazing time and something that I think our entire team looks fondly about. We're very close still, and I think that shared hardship, that shared experience, is something that bonds you together for life. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 5:41 So that two-year journey, and obviously you graduated and became an Air Force Special Tactics Officer. You know what was, I guess, the moment that it clicked for you. You know, you said you got to that point. Do you remember that day? Do you remember what was different, or you just all of a sudden didn't sweat the same? Mitch Torrel 5:57 I think it probably lasted for me longer than a lot of people, and you know, it seems like I learned a lot of the lessons hard myself. You know, and but I think it's just something that gradually over time, you know, the way I remember it is one day it stopped, but I'm sure it was a little bit more gradual than that. Like I think over time you just learn to just, hey, tomorrow's going to be no different than it was today. Today was fine. We made it through. The team did great. You know, I performed up to my standard, or maybe if I didn't, tomorrow's another opportunity in which I can go back and get after it again. And there's plenty of times where I look back, and I think it's easy to learn and roll when you're being put in those situations each and every day. And so it was a very growth-oriented couple of years for me, and I really enjoyed it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 6:52 I would have loved to have been working with you on the day after you didn't have to wake up and change the sheets. Whatever you had, you know, you know, you were more alert that day. You actually had better sleep. Mitch Torrel 7:01 Yeah, I think definitely had to drink a substantially less amount of water each night before going to bed. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 7:09 Oh goodness! Well, let's talk about — I think you know, there was something that you shared before about kind of uncovering in yourself that you had more in your tank than you thought, and I'm curious that that was during pipeline in those moments that were like you know forced experiences, or if you found that at other times when you kind of surprised yourself in learning that about. Mitch Torrel 7:28 I think the entire 10 years was a constant lesson of you've got more in the tank, both physically and mentally. I think when I first decided today, I was going through pilot training, and I just felt like it was more of a hobby than a job. And I got to meet guys in special operations, and was very impressed by the camaraderie, by the caliber of guys that were there. And to me, it was like a hockey team, and I missed that. I missed that group because you wanted to be a pilot first, correct? Is that what you're planning? Yeah, I think my family wanted me to be a pilot. I think they kind of pushed me that direction. I always enjoyed flight, you know. But for me, I just thought that some of my skills and abilities would better translate, and I would have a more fulfilling career, getting to be around you know that type of environment. And I think too, there's always you know, can I make it through the training? Do I have what it takes? You know, what will I learn about myself? And so that was a little bit of kind of just the unknown was alluring, you know. But I think there's just so much every day. Where I remember one of the first selection events, you do a long ruck event, and leading up to training, I was so focused on passing the initial fitness test to just start the assessment that I didn't rock, I didn't do underwater stuff. I was just focused on can I do push-ups? Can I do pull-ups? Can I do the 3-mile run? You know, and that took all my time and energy. And when I got to the ruck, it's unknown time, unknown distance, and they just tell you to go. And I remember I was like, all right, I'm going to treat this like a workout, and I'm going to run for a couple minutes, and then I'll walk for a few minutes, and I'll run for a couple minutes, and that'll help get me through. And I remember Master Sergeant came up to me, and he's like, “Why, why are you walking? And I remember being embarrassed at that moment, where it's do I not have it in the tank where I could have just been running this whole time? Do I want it enough where I can just dig a little bit deeper and showcase that? And I remember that fed me through the next two years, where it's like, do I have the mental hardness? Do I have the toughness? Have I prepared physically, you know, for these events? And so I think that was kind of a good wake-up call. Where it's not a workout, you know, what do you have left in the tank? And I think throughout two years there, went through another direction halfway through my career, and that was another opportunity to kind of dig in the dig in the tank a little bit. Did you approach that one differently? I did, and very proud of you know what I had learned throughout the years, what I was able to showcase. We did a much longer rec event, and I ran the whole thing, and was pretty proud of myself about that. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:22 What a fantastic example! Because I'm thinking about you know in in in our work and our profession, we do we think about how can I create something to be distinct, right? How can I do something for the long haul? But you're right. If we don't, if we aren't thinking about how can we perform at our best as part of that, you know, that that equation, then we might not even get to the long haul, right? And so I think that's really powerful that you kind of shared, you know, giving your all and realizing that there was more in there than you originally were trying to like, you know, save. Yeah. Wow, that's a really cool story. I bet there are many examples of that. It was quite. Oh my Did you see others? You know, as you had these moments where you kind of learned these things about yourself, and obviously, I think you know in hockey you probably saw this as well. But have you been able to pull others along with you in these experiences that you've had that you've seen? Maybe others are struggling the same way. Mitch Torrel 11:15 I think everybody struggles in different areas, especially in the pipeline. You're learning a lot of different skill sets. You're working on a lot of different things. Cardio is a part of it. Strength is a part of it. Determination. I mean, just — and there's so much. I think you pick up some really good traits from others. Hey, I really like what you're doing, or how you having such success, or how do you navigate this portion? I was always terrible in the water, bad swimmer, horrible underwater. I think when I went through initial selection, somebody pulled me out of the pool after we did underwaters, which is you go down, do a completely underwater, you know, swim underwater, swim underwater for the distance of the pool, and then come back up at a 45-degree angle. And I remember one of the cadre. He pulled me out of the pool, and he said, "You are terrible. Like I wanted to pass out watching you. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:22 And you're like, "Thank you for that feedback. Mitch Torrel 12:08 And so it's getting with people who are really good at it and getting advice. I think something throughout my career that I've been very blessed to have is really good mentorship. And you're typically not the first one to go through a process, find a new job, you know, and having a good network of people who, hey, how did you prepare? What set you up for success, or especially in business now, it's a completely new world for me. And having mentors who are able to help think of it this way, or there's a better way to orient your situation, or prepare yourself, and that's really important to surround yourself with people who, you know, are able to elevate you, make you rethink kind of your approach to things, and then give you tips and advice. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 12:52 So I have to ask, do you like the water today? Mitch Torrel 12:54 I like being on the water, you know, on a boat, you know? Just hanging out. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 12:59 There’s some material between you and the water, so that leads me to this question. I know that was a little comical, but I'm curious when someone, as that's you know a developing leader or wherever they're at in their leadership journey, if they really want to be part of something, but there is something that is fundamentally part of that that they just don't like or they're just not good at, what would be the advice you give them? Because you know some people might be like, I just hate that so much, I won't pursue the thing that I love because that component's in there. Mitch Torrel 13:28 I think there's kind of two factors in that. If you hate something so much that you know in your heart that it's not something that you can overcome or you want to deal with on a day-to-day basis, then then maybe that that's not worth you know getting through. But I would also argue that until you give yourself the opportunity to progress and grow and learn to get through whatever that difficulty or whatever that is that you don't like, you won't know. And I think there's a lot of ways to incrementally. You don't have to be the best swimmer today. You just have to be a little bit better than you were yesterday, and I think that was something that we and our team learned throughout the pipeline. Is hey, you don't have to be the best at everything today, but everything that you do today is just making you a little bit better for tomorrow. And so I think breaking down things into manageable and you know smaller bite-sized things that you can you can do. You know hey, when I first started swimming, I couldn't believe people swam multiple laps at a time. You know, and I was like, “All right, I'm going to swim two, you know, 50s at a time tomorrow, and then, you know, next week I'm going to build up to 100,” or, you know, and it doesn't have to all happen overnight. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 14:45 Right. For a moment, I thought two to 100 but you're talking 50s. Well, that's fantastic, and thank you for sharing that because I think what I also gleaned from that is there's some self-discovery that comes from, I really don't like something, a part of you starts to learn, “Really, did I really not like that?” Right? Maybe feared that because I'm not good at that. And so I think I really appreciated your thoughts of you haven't really given your chance to truly assess that. Mitch Torrel 15:10 And I think we build things up so much in our head. You know, I think dive school is one of those — “Oh, it's terrifying.” You know? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 15:16 I mean, it probably is, I’m not gonna lie. Mitch Torrel 15:19 And it really wasn't. I think we throughout training did a good job. And in preparation, again, you fall back on your preparation. Worked really hard to get there. Put in the extra And it just makes you know those hurdles that at once seem like mountains, you know, just small little hills that you have to go over. Yeah. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 15:38 Well, you mentioned some of those in your life that you realize when you're going through something, you're probably not the first person that's gone through it, and you have that network of mentors. What are some of the traits that— And I think you alluded to, there are five traits in a leader that you really kind of look to, you know, to see. What are those? Mitch Torrel 15:56 So drive, you know, and a lot of people that were surrounded with, especially at the academy, or in you know in the soft community, or in the military in general, have drive, and so that's not necessarily a unique characteristic, but it's something that you need in order to make you successful. Interpersonal effectiveness, and so how do I integrate with a team? How do I relate to others? And it can't be cookie cutter for everybody, and because team environments, people you know are different, and that's it's one of those soft and fuzzy skills that you need to work on and develop the way that you communicate, and so can I get my message across? Do people understand it? And that's both in writing, spoken. You know, be nonverbal, verbal, the way that you carry yourself, body language, super important. Problem solving. So that's something that the academy does a good job of exposing you to routinely. Can I solve this problem? How do I get my team to you know get after this complex problem? And so that's another one of those characteristics that we typically assess and select for. I think stress tolerance. You know, Pipeline does a really good job of building you up with that. The Academy, basic training, all of that is just another iteration at how am I handling things when I'm getting yelled at, when there's a timeline, when there's you know things at stake. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 17:19 So I'm curious, were those you've just over time recognized that when I see things or leaders succeeding really well or being able to accomplish things that maybe that others would think impossible, they carry those traits. Is that how you have kind of derived them down to five? Mitch Torrel 17:37 I think there's the foundation of it. Obviously, there's a lot of subfacets that go into each of those traits and characteristics and some leaders have you know all five of them in spades. Some of them are much more heavily reliant on some of their characteristics than others, but it's always a good thing to develop the traits that you're lacking. I think feedback is a really important trait and really important characteristic of well-functioning teams, and so how did I do this week? If I didn't do great, you know, like I don't need to be beaten down about it. But people typically want to be high performers, and everybody has blind spots, and so being able to call out those blind spots in a healthy and functional manner is super important because people want to be high performers. And I had the privilege of running and getting to work some of our selection events, and what we found was a really cool trend, which is we used to do weird feedback, and so guys would show up to selection, and right away the first day you'd have a bunch of tasks and events, and we'd bring everybody together and be like, all right, go down the row. Who is the two highest performing guys today? And that's really easy. People love to give praise, and then you go down the line, and you're like, all right, call out the two lowest performing guys and tell them why. And people go, I don't want to do that, and it's like, why? Like, do you not want them to get better? Do you not want them to have the opportunity? We're in Day 1 of day X, and it's not too early to turn their train around. What we saw is typically the guys who are the lowest performing early on are never the lowest performing at the end of the year, and they take that feedback, they internalize it, and they adopt and you know overturn that. And it's really fun to see that progression, but none of that happens if they don't get called out, if they don't get constructive feedback. “Hey, when we were working as a team, you were doing X and Y and Z by yourself, or you know, there's a million reasons why either an action is perceived as hey, you weren't for the team, or you didn't perform the standard.” I think people getting that feedback is what turns that train around. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 19:49 Right, it's almost probably like exactly what they needed. So I'm curious because feedback is challenging. It's hard to I think for some to give feedback. It's hard for some to receive feedback, I'm fascinated because when I think about the pace in which you have had to operate and do things, that you make time for feedback. I'm curious if you could talk about how you guys do that in a way that's received well. Mitch Torrel 20:13 I think it, again, it goes back to interpersonal effectiveness, and so you've got to know who do I have on my team? Are they somebody who's going to internalize this or not take it very well? There's a bunch of different ways in which you can get feedback and then provide it to somebody. Where we used to early on in the pipeline, as guys were learning to get feedback and you know not you know get too shaken up about it. Is we would have guys write, all right, hey, everybody on our team, we're going to do three things they do well, three things you wish they'd improve on, and then we strip out the names and we provide just a list of hey, here your three things that you're doing really well, and then here are your three weaknesses that you know everybody said we go around we talk about it, and that was a really good kind of introduction, where it's not tanked to anybody. Right. And then what's really nice is you start to see trends. So it's really easy for people to be like, “Oh, you know, Mitch doesn't like me,” or, “That's Mitch's opinion.” But when you start to see that correlation of, well, I got this five times. Is hey, my body language day to day is probably not where it needs to be, or I'm constantly putting others down, or I'm just you know not showing up on time, just small things, and I think drawing awareness to that and getting buy-in from guys to change it, and you see that transition all the time, where, all right, like, now I'm aware of it, I can fix it, I can identify it, and then you get the team to hold you accountable with it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 21:44 Well, in the way that you just described that, I'm curious how often you think that it's, you know, relevant or should be practiced. Is it, like, in the moment? Is it something, like, that where it's weekly? But I think, what I think is really neat about that — it was never attacking, and it was never something they had to defend. It just seemed like it was just information. Like it's what you do really well. This is what you need to work on. And taking the attribution away from it, like who said it? I think just made it, you know. Mitch Torrel 22:09 And I think everybody got to understand that you're a student, you know, of life and a student of your job. You're a student of life. You're a student of you know whatever position you're in. And I had a mentor growing up and played professional sports, and there was a conversation where, hey, “How do how do you know when it's time to retire? How do you know when you're done?” And it's when I stop improving and I stop learning. And so having that mentality where, no matter how long you've been around, there's things to improve upon, there's things to learn, is really hard to have because people, you know, you get comfortable in a position. It's like I've seen it all, I've done it all, I've been there. But the people who are the best at their jobs, and especially in the military, the people who show up every day, work on their trade, work on their skills and seek to improve, and I've been blessed to be surrounded by just, I mean, some of the most decorated warriors that the Air Force has put out on the battlefield. And it was a humbling experience, but even more so humbling was the approach they took every day. As they came into work every day and got better at something. They didn't sit on their laurels and “Hey, I did this two years ago, and now I can kind of walk through the rest of my career.” It was— they came in every day to work, and it was impressive. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 23:30 Oh man! What is something that and normally asks at the end, but it just seems so fitting right now. Like, how are you getting better and learning every day? Mitch Torrel 23:38 I think every day is new problem sets, and I think it's you know trying to expand my education. I think there's a lot of new tools out there. There's a lot of new opportunities and think the world's constantly changing. And so, staying informed is one of the ways in which I'm trying to be a better leader. I think business is this completely new hurdle. I think being in the military, there's a very different type of leadership that you're able to bring. And two, I mean, everybody is there for the mission generally and believes in the task and purpose. And business now, you kind of need to appeal to people in a lot more of a well-rounded manner. And so, I think having conversations with mentors, you know, I'm maintaining that. I try and just meet as many people as I can and glean information from them, experiences from them, because I'd like to think I'm getting smarter as I get older. I'm trying to learn all the lessons myself. So… Col. Naviere Walkewicz 24:39 Well, I'm grateful for that because the reason why we're talking here is because you answered, you know, and we're willing to talk about it. So I think that's you know just proof right there of that stretching and outreach. So before we shift into, I'm curious on you know you talk about you asked your mentor when does he know it's time to retire. I would love Kind of the business world, but before that, I'd like to visit actually one of your experiences while you're in in service, and you know it's something there's you know there's a movie on it. We actually featured in our 2018 checkpoint, but you were instrumental in rescuing the boys' soccer team in Thailand when they had a huge monsoon. And I was wondering if you kind of take me not so much. Maybe you can share with others in case they aren't familiar with it. But I'm really curious about the leadership piece of that because it was a huge operation, and it was dealing with water. So let's talk about that. Mitch Torrel 25:34 Yeah, exactly — my nightmare. You know what? I just happened to be in the right time at the right place. There was a team of pararescue men and combat controllers stationed out in Okinawa, Japan. There was a group of soccer players who got stranded in a cave after the monsoons came early and had flooded out a section. The Thai leadership and parks team, and then eventually the Thai Navy tried to attempt a rescue, and they weren't able to action it. So they reached out to the U.S. Embassy and asked if we had anybody in in the region who could come help. And that just happened to be our team out in Okinawa. I think it was definitely a challenge. There wasn't a lot of information when we left out the door. It was either, you know, is 13 individuals stuck in a cave. We don't know what the hurdles are. We don't know what's been tried. We don't know anything. We don't even know if they're alive. Oh my goodness. And so, getting on the ground, there was a lot of information to take in. There's a lot of people who were trying to help, trying to facilitate a rescue, working, you know, their own agendas, and I think coordinating and making sense of all that chaos was kind of the first task. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 26:47 And so, what was your role? So, you know, obviously, like the call came in, and then you know, you were — that was, you know, your, you know, was assigned to that. What was your piece, and like, how did you navigate that chaos? Mitch Torrel 26:58 So I felt like I had the best job out of you know anybody there. I got to be the operations officer, and so I was kind of the troop commander for the team that we had out. And you know, meanwhile, my leadership had to you know liaise with the other leaders. I got to be kind of down and in focused. All right, what plans are we working? How are we coordinating and liaising with our Thai counterparts? And got to be a little bit more down and in. And so I really enjoyed that part, and that was kind of why I got into special operations in general as I wanted to be, you know, working with a team of really, really high-functioning individuals on very hard problems. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 27:38 Right, and this was one of the first kind of very hard problems that you were, you know, working on. Mitch Torrel 27:43 It was. So this was my first operational mission, you know, coming out of the pipeline. I got stationed in Okinawa, and this was kind of the first opportunity to showcase what I'd learned and employ. And it was kind of, you know, everybody's dream is to go through training and then get to action some of those skills and traits that they've developed. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 28:02 Well, I imagine it was quite busy, you know, around the clock because you know time wasn't on their side, and so you were really working against the clock. But I'm curious how you, you know, how do you navigate with urgency as a leader, but still safely? You know, like how do you manage that? Mitch Torrel 28:21 I think, sometimes you got to know when to kind of pull the reins, and it's very easy— it was a very urgent situation, right? There's 13 kids trapped. They don't have food or water. We don't know if they're alive. The cave is continually flooding more and more every hour. But you got to have a plan to go off of. You got to be able to not rush into an emergency and make things worse. And I think off the start, nobody was monitoring who came and went from the cave, and that generated issues. John and Rick, the U.K. and British divers, stumbled on you know two would-be rescuers who got subsequently stranded in another section of the cave, and they were able to get them out. And then, and so we realized that taking a step back, generating a plan. When we arrived, there was a key leaders contingent that went into the cave to kind of get information first and foremost. And then we spent the rest of the team, all right download the gear, stage everything, prep everything, go get some rest, and then we're going to generate and come up with a plan in the morning. But sometimes you got to realize that you can't move them out in overnight, and so you need to take time, you know, do a little five-minute huddle and make sure that you have a plan that's not going to get you further into trouble. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 29:38 Yes, well, it's such an important role, and I'm thinking about you know those moments where your like, “Get some rest,” as the leader in this, and you know, kind of organizing this. What are the thoughts going through some of your in your head? And I ask that because I'm thinking about leaders who are experiencing something difficult for the first time, and maybe there's some doubt, or you know, how do you how do you calm yourself through some of those questions? Mitch Torrel 30:00 I think, for new leaders, you don't have to have all the answers yourself, and that is first and foremost. I on team, and probably one of the most junior guys. Yes, I'm in charge as the officer, but the guys who are working with me have been in the Air Force, have done rescue missions, have been doing the job for 15, 18, you know, upwards of 20 years, and so I think understanding that no matter where you're at in a team, you you're a part of a team for a reason, and you should be able to leverage input, leverage ideas, and you shouldn't be beholden to coming up with everything on yourself. I think delegation is super important. I think getting input and opinions from others is extremely important because sometimes the quietest guy in the room is going to have the best idea, and you need to enable and empower them to speak up, put them on the spot. You know, “Hey, what do you think? What do you— How do you think we should approach this?” And then your job as a leader is to take all these good ideas, is to empower the team to do its best, and so your job isn't to carry the water, come up with a plan, and do everything on your own. Like, you were there as a facilitator, and I think that that is the biggest takeaway. I spend, especially young cadets, please, please, please leverage you know the experience that that you're going to go out and be on team with. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 31:22 I think that's fantastic advice. And as you look back on it today, I know we chatted a little bit earlier. I said, gosh, you know, it probably it's a while ago, but maybe it feels like yesterday, and you said no, it feels like forever ago. You know, have you seen yourself? You learn from that, but have you grown in the way that you continue to do things now because of that experience? Mitch Torrel 31:43 I think everything is additive. You know, I mean that was a huge learning experience. It was I learned a ton. I think there are several things that having a second shot at it that would have done substantially different. I think the outcome ended up in a very happy manner; I think it's very easy now that we've developed this framework. Here's how we tackle this problem, but that's been applicable in other means and other avenues as well. And so again, you know, as you build your toolbox of experience, as you build kind of these traits, and you get to refine that, it's something that you continually get to bring out in other manners. And so yeah, I grew a lot from the event, learned a lot, and have been able to apply it since. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 32:29 Well, as I've been sitting across from you, one of the things that I'm just feeling in spades is that as a leader, you are somebody that's really humble, and you know you approach it, like, through humility. And so I'm curious, you know, how you've seen that carry you, and what you might share with others when they're thinking about, you know, how do I, you know, as I'm leading, how do I lead? Like how do I lead with humility? Because it seems like it's working very well for you. Mitch Torrel 32:51 I think it was easy to be humble when you're surrounded by the caliber of individuals that I was blessed to be around mean, every team I was on, it was. I mean, they were phenomenal guys who have done phenomenal things in their career and were just so impressive. And so I was just always just thrilled to be a teammate of theirs. I think, really going back to you know, again, your job as a leader is to facilitate the team, is to you know drive you towards mission accomplishment. I think if you always put things back onto why we here, it's not for leadership's sake, leaders don't exist, you know, outside of facilitation, and you know it's not to downplay the job of the leader. It's not at all. It's a big responsibility. You have the authority. You have the — you know all of that, and so now it's your job to delegate that accordingly and efficiently. And I think it's going back to just understanding that again, we exist for the mission. We exist to enable that team to accomplish whatever its task or business you know directive is, and so I think having an understanding of that, and then it's just fun to see people progress, right? You know that the cave rescue was my first mission, but that didn't mean because I hadn't had real world experience that I didn't have things that I could bring to the table, and I think it's understanding that as well as humility is important. Like maybe you know not jumping across the table and you know declaring yourself the king of whatever's going on, but individuals have a lot that they bring to the table. You know, having an ability to you know see other things that aren't being looked at, bring other perspectives to the table, even just making sense of the chaos. You know, and that's not something that you need to be a leader or in a leadership position to do. And being forward leaning enough to anticipate hurdles, second, third order effects. What else needs to be accomplished or taken care of? I mean, there's a lot of ways in which you can provide value. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 34:56 Mitch, have you always kind of been this way? Have you always kind of operated in that space or is it something that you've kind of learned over time about yourself, or taken on from others you've seen? Mitch Torrel 35:06 I think it's something that's developed. You know, I don't think you know. I think there's a little bit of nurture and nature into it, where you know you're born a certain orientation where it's like, hey, you're comfortable being you know in charging groups, and some people aren't, and that's OK. But a lot of people develop into it, and I think I've just been blessed with a lot of opportunities to try things out, fail, come back to the drawing board, work on it, improve, and you know the pipeline was monumentally developmental for me. I'm sure there's a lot of teammates who you know listen to this and laugh pretty hard about you know some of the stupid things that I did going through the pipeline, but they're learning experiences, and we had a really good group, and we pushed each other so hard, and so I had an assistant troop commander who was going through with me, and we had really healthy camaraderie, but a really healthy. I mean, we were constantly competing, and it just drove me to be so much better. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 36:07 So, you know, we were talking about how you are continually working on being better, right? Being better than you were yesterday, so that it's always kind of an additive improvement. I'm curious on when you've seen yourself fail. You talked about you failed and you've gotten better. Can you share an example of when you have failed and that literally shaped something very quickly instead of being additive, but quickly that you changed in the way that you already did. Mitch Torrel 36:34 I think just failures and take care of people, I think is one of the biggest things to learn is, you know, going through the pipeline, it's easy to you know lose sight of the overall end state. And at the end of the day, it's your goal is to there be there to make people better incrementally every day. I think there's been a couple situations in which maybe I was a little ax on some enforcement of rules or standard that came back to kind of bite us a little bit, you know. And so, and this this will probably feel free to cut this, you know. But I think there was an opportunity guys going through a pipeline. They're really young. I grew up, you know, in northern Minnesota, and you know, people drink underage. I was hey I'm OK hearing about it or you know like I'm you know as a commander it's like if it happens it happens you know but I think what's hard is how do you enforce the rules if you're looking the other way if you're not enforcing that standard and so I think what's really hard is you can be there be one of the guys but you got to set your red lines you got to set hey here's what I will and will not tolerate and so I think I learned early in the pipeline that if I'm OK or if I let the standard slip on certain things, you know, like guys drink underage, like guys do you know stupid things, and then they get in trouble for it. How do I, as a commander, enforce it? And so it was one of those learning experiences where going through the pipeline, guy had you know you know got found drinking underage, and it's like, “Hey, it's on you as the, you know, officer to discipline them.” It's like, “Well, I'm also a part of the problem because I didn't set that standard. I, you know, allowed it.” And so I think that was one of those heavy learning experiences where, you know, you're — yes, you're the quarterback of the team, but you got to there has to be some delineation between you know between what you allow and what you can't. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 38:49 I'm really glad you shared that because I think that's real. I think that is something a challenge that you know, especially when I think about the Class of ’26 that just graduated and they just finished their six days of leave, and they're soon to head onto their bases, right? You know, the world doesn't always turn out, and so how do they navigate some of those things that they're going to inevitably come across? So I think that's a real conversation, and I really appreciate you sharing that. Mitch Torrel 39:14 And I think what I started doing, you know, from then on is, is you as a commander, you as a officer, should have you know your command guidance. It should be your checklist. Hey, here's what I value. Here's what my red lines are, and you gotta set the standard immediately to just let people know, “Hey, like here's what I'm gonna be irritated about if you show up late to meetings.” If, you know, here's what you know I'm not gonna handle any moral, legal, or ethical issues. Like if it's not moral or legally or ethically a problem, like my job is to you know delegate that down to you and allow you guys to do it. And so setting that standard early as leaders is extremely important because then it allows you to enforce, uphold the standard, and be like, "Hey, we talked about this. This is the expectation. You understood the expectation, and now I can hold you accountable.” And it's not me coming after you because we sat down and had a conversation. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 40:13 That's right. That's excellent advice. So one of the things that we like to do is ask you if you were sitting across, not Navid now, if you're sitting across young Mitch. What was what piece of advice you'd share with him? Mitch Torrel 40:25 I think, enjoy the period in which you're in every stage. I feel like every four years, I look back on the previous four years and just think about what an amazing time period that was. And you know, getting to play hockey, going to the academy, the academy was amazing. You're hanging with your friends. You're in college, and you know, increasingly as you age, it's going to be increasing responsibility. There's going to be a lot more you know burden on your shoulders, but it's fun, you know. And progression is fun, moving on to the next stage. But I think enjoy where you're at in life a little bit more. It would kind of be my advice. And then, you know, I don't necessarily regret anything, but it's you know continually to just work hard, progress, and you know have those cups coffee, learn from other mentors, you know, expand your network, and just grow. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 41:20 What are you doing now that helps you enjoy life? Mitch Torrel 41:25 I think right now, so just moved, and you know, right now I'm trying to focus on a little bit more me, you know, be a little healthier with sleep, eating, you know, and just I think it's easy to kind of burn the candle at both ends, and now it's kind of taking a step back and understanding that you need to be rejuvenated, you need to you know unplug periodically to be able to bring your all to you know what you're working on, and sometimes things get monotonous, and sometimes you know you just need to take a step back and reinvigorate yourself. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 41:58 I love that. That's fantastic. So, today, in today's terms, what are you most proud about yourself when it comes to? And if I word this right, maybe I say, what are you most proud about in being a facilitator? I want to say being a leader, but I wonder if you're going to answer that. I'm really good at facilitating high-performing teams. I'm curious how it goes. Mitch Torrel 42:19 I think what I'm most proud about is just looking back at the people I've had the blessing of coming across and just seeing them grow in their life. You know, like I think we allow sometimes in in the military where everybody's going to leave the military at some point, and that's OK. You know, I’ve got friends who stayed in for 2030, years and done phenomenal things. I've got friends who've gotten out, and you know progressed in their professional careers, and to me, it's just fun to see where everybody ends up. Like I love seeing people have success, and especially people who, you know, I may or may not have helped at least a little bit. You know, or you know, at least been a bad example of what not to do. But I think, yeah, it's the relationships that I look back on, and I'm just very happy to have you know gotten to know the people that I've come across. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 43:13 Well, you yourself made that transition, I think, from you know active service and obviously an entrepreneur. You know, what's some advice you might give someone in in that kind of decision calculus of transitioning their career? Mitch Torrel 43:26 I think it just goes back to again, am I am I continually am I student of the game? Am I showing up every day invigorated to learn and be better at my job? And you know maybe if the answer is if not, you need to step away for a little bit, reinvigorate yourself, reprioritize your life. And sometimes it's just, hey, I've got some goals that I've set out to get after, and sometimes your path diverges, and that's OK. And I think in my case it was I had some things that I wanted to accomplish in life that the — it was just time for me to, you know, change my path, of course. And so it wasn't. I loved the military. I loved the team environment, the camaraderie, the units that I got to be part of were phenomenal, and I miss that every day. But sometimes you just got to, you know, understand where you're going and you know set out and accomplish those goals. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 44:20 Well, I think there's been a theme across many of the graduates I get to speak with, and service continues even out of uniform. So I think that that definitely speaks volumes. So Mitch, was there anything today that we didn't cover that you would love to share with our graduate community, even if it's just words of encouragement? Mitch Torrel 44:37 No, I think it's just you know continue to build your skill set, build your toolbox, understand that every day is an opportunity to learn to better communicate, to invest in yourself, to professionalize you know your approach to things and building discipline, building you know your approach to complex problems, and I think a lot of us just want to check the box and move on and get you know. But every day again is an opportunity to better yourself, and so I think that that's what I would impart on, you know, younger next generation who are going to solve tomorrow's hard problems, who are going to be in these complex positions that we can't even fathom. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 45:21 Well, there are so many amazing things that we covered today that I think many can take back and internalize and find the way that it connects to them. But something that really stood out to me, just first and foremost, with you mentioned that you're more authentic and you just live with your heart. And so I think that came out in spades. I loved learning that you know leadership to you started with really kind of looking inward and what you really wanted, right? You could have gone a path of a pilot, and you could have done well, but you recognize that there is something that you wanted to do that might be more fulfilling with your skill set and align better with you. I think that that is that awareness as a leader is really important. I also really appreciate how you continue on focus on better every day, and you don't have to be the best tomorrow. But you need to be better than you were, and you're competing against yourself every day while lifting others up. I think the other thing that I really just enjoyed about you is remembering that the leader, yes, does have responsibilities to make decisions and you know, you know, advocate and empower others, but you're a facilitator and making sure that you help others have their voices bring out the best so that you actually can bring out the mission to success. So it's been an incredible conversation. I've thoroughly enjoyed this. So I just truly appreciate you being on Long Blue Leadership. Mitch Torrel 46:33 No, thank you. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 46:35 Absolutely. And so, for any of you that are still watching and listening to this, be sure to share this with others because the leadership journey is one that it never ends. Right? We're always growing and evolving, and this conversation and all of our conversations on Long Blue Leadership with the lives of Air Force Academy graduates can just help you in your own personal journey. So, see you next time on Long Blue Leadership. I'm Naviere Walkowicz. Thank you. Mitch Torrel 46:56 Thank you. KEYWORDS Leadership, fear, resilience, mental toughness, preparation, adaptation, team cohesion, shared hardship, humility, mentorship, feedback, continuous improvement, self-awareness, stress tolerance, problem solving, interpersonal effectiveness, communication, delegation, accountability, standards, courage, growth mindset, trust, mission focus, servant leadership. The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation

11 de ago de 2026 - 47 min

The Power of Influence - Lt. Col. Joe "Paveway" Bledsoe ’11

What builds trust when you don't have a title or position of authority? SUMMARY According to Lt. Col. Joe Bledsoe ’11, it's honesty, integrity, humility presence and action. Tune in as he shares practical leadership lessons learned from the Academy, combat aviation and years of mentoring others. SHARE THIS EPISODE FACEBOOK [https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.longblueleadership.org%2Fe%2Fthe-power-of-influence-lt-col-joe-paveway-bledsoe-11%2F%3Ftoken%3D5f991eb2eeb4b18f8f9a23059980dc41] | LINKEDIN [http://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.longblueleadership.org%2Fe%2Fthe-power-of-influence-lt-col-joe-paveway-bledsoe-11%2F%3Ftoken%3D5f991eb2eeb4b18f8f9a23059980dc41&title=] COL. BLEDSOE'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS 1. Leadership starts before the title. People follow your example, ideas, and presence long before you get formal authority. 2. Informal leadership is as real as formal leadership. Class president, wingman, or peer—your influence, credibility, and support role matter even without rank. 3. Be “clay to be molded.” Show eagerness, humility, and effort; people notice fresh attitude and willingness to embrace hard things. 4. You can’t lead alone—build a trusted team. Time management and heavy responsibility force you to delegate to people you trust and empower them. 5. Trust has two layers: inherent and earned. Start with inherent trust (shared values, shared background) and deliberately grow earned trust through behavior. 6. Five traits that build credibility fast: Honesty, integrity, humility, presence (actually being there, engaged), and decisive action. 7. Debrief like a fighter pilot: brutally honest, never personal. Separate the person from the performance, do root‑cause analysis, fix errors, and then move on—no re‑litigating. 8. Own your mistakes out loud. Saying “I’m sorry,” “I was wrong,” or “I don’t know, but I’ll find out” accelerates trust and models humility. 9. Mentors and mentees are non‑negotiable. Continuously seek guidance from those ahead of you and invest in those behind you to sharpen your own thinking. 10. Prioritize relationships and pride in the mission. Treat family and friends well, cultivate the Long Blue Line, and remember you’re on the A‑team—act like it. CHAPTERS 00:00:00 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9QB3L2-fB0] — Opening & Guest Intro Show open, Naviere introduces Lt Col Joe “Paveway” Bledsoe and his career highlights. 00:01:13 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9QB3L2-fB0&t=73s] — Voluntold to Lead: Becoming Class President Basic cadet training, being “voluntold,” interview gauntlet, and getting elected class president. 00:04:09 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9QB3L2-fB0&t=249s] — What a Class President Actually Does Informal vs formal leadership, picking the class exemplar (Robin Olds), dining‑ins, spirit missions, and accountability. 00:08:38 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9QB3L2-fB0&t=518s] — From Future Doctor to Fighter Pilot Arriving at USAFA wanting to be a physician, loving biology and medicine, and the first seeds of doubt. 00:10:03 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9QB3L2-fB0&t=603s] — Ops Air Force, Powered Flight, and the Pivot Deployed Ops Air Force in CENTCOM, exposure to flying in theater, powered flight, and choosing pilot training over med school. 00:12:22 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9QB3L2-fB0&t=742s] — Mentors, Family, and Making a Hard Call Mentorship from family, upperclassmen, and permanent party; emotional weight of changing paths and family’s reaction. 00:14:08 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9QB3L2-fB0&t=848s] — Leading Without Rank: Credibility and Trust Informal leadership as a young wingman, lessons from time management and delegation as class president, inherent vs earned trust, and key traits (honesty, integrity, humility, presence, action). 00:22:06 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9QB3L2-fB0&t=1326s] — Fighter Pilot Debriefs & Radical Feedback Culture Brutally honest debriefs, owning mistakes, root‑cause analysis, safety and mission focus, and how that mindset translates beyond the cockpit. 00:27:48 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9QB3L2-fB0&t=1668s] — Leadership at Home: Marriage, Parenting, and ‘Knock It Off’ High‑school‑sweetheart marriage, parenting, using accountability and humility with kids, and balancing “fighter pilot” mode with being a husband and dad. 00:30:30 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9QB3L2-fB0&t=1830s] — Future Conflict, Growth, and Pride in the Long Blue Line Risk and future fight, Institute for Future Conflict, exposure to other AFSCs and logistics, daily growth habits (mentors, mentees, reading, writing, running), advice to younger self, and closing message on being proud of USAFA and the A‑team. ABOUT COL. BLEDSOE BIO Lt. Col. Joseph “Paveway” Bledsoe ’11 is a U.S. Air Force Academy graduate and recognized leader whose career has spanned combat operations, advanced airpower development and service to the Long Blue Line. A native of rural Pennsylvania, Bledsoe graduated from the Academy in 2011 with a degree in biology before earning a Master of Public Policy from the University of Maryland. He is Currently assigned to the Institute for Future Conflict at the U.S. Air Force Academy where he studies the future of airpower, emerging technologies and the challenges of great-power competition. Prior to joining the Institute, he helped lead training and operational planning efforts at the 366th Fighter Wing, contributing to major exercises and the wing’s first deployment to the Indo-Pacific region. His work bridges the gap between today’s operational realities and tomorrow’s strategic challenges. A recipient of the Association & Foundation’s Young Alumni Excellence Award, Bledsoe is widely respected for his emphasis on faith, family and service. Throughout his career, he has remained deeply connected to the Academy community through mentorship, alumni leadership and a commitment to developing the next generation of leaders. On this episode of Long Blue Leadership, he shares lessons learned from leading peers, building influence before authority and navigating high-stakes decisions in both the cockpit and the profession of arms. CONNECT WITH JOE LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/in/joseph-paveway-bledsoe-iii/] CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor: Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org [Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org] Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org [socialmedia@usafa.org] Please note: we are only considering USAFA graduates as guests at this time. <---> Ryan Hall | Director: Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org [Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org] Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor: Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org [Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org] Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer: Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org [Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org] ALL PAST LBL EPISODES [https://usafa.org/LBL] | ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS [https://www.podbean.com/podcast-network/longbluelinepodcast] AVAILABLE AT USAFA.ORG/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP [http://usafa.org/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP] AND ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS FULL TRANSCRIPT Guest, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Joe "Paveway" Bledsoe" ’11 | Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99 Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz 0:01 Sometimes leadership begins long before you've ever been put in charge. It starts when people trust you enough to follow your example, your ideas or your vision. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of ’99; Long Blue Leadership starts now. Well, Lt. Col. Joe “Paveway” Bledsoe the Third. Welcome to Long Blue Leadership. Lt. Col. Joe Bledsoe 0:20 Naviere, it's great to see you. Thank you for having me here today. I'm looking forward to the conversation. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:24 So, Joe, your career has been exciting so far, and you're still in it. You know, you have been operational leader, obviously an F-15E Strike Eagle pilot. You've been deployed, you have been a researcher, you're a Young Alumni Excellence Award winner for our Association & Foundation, you've been an AOG board director and a fellow for the Institute for Future Conflict. And that, that's just, you know, a short little list, because you’re a student heading back into, over to, is it North Carolina, right? Seymour Johnson. Col. Joe Bledsoe 0:53 That’s correct. Seymour Johnson, yep. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:54 In the cockpit, yeah. Col. Joe Bledsoe 0:56 Yeah, we're super excited. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:59 Yes. Well, we're going to touch on probably many of those places, but I want to dial it back to something that only one graduate in every class experiences, and for you it happened shortly after Basic Cadet Training. Your class selected you as your class president. How did that come about? Col. Joe Bledsoe 1:14 How did that all go down? That's a great question. So there we were, right after basic training. I was in Cadet Squadron 19 for my freshman year, and I got the opportunity — this is one of those voluntold moments, right — where the upperclassmen and BCT cadre said, “Joe,” or “Cadet Bledsoe, report to H-1 during transition week.” That’s when everybody's coming back, and you're like, “Sure, yep, yes, sir, yes, ma'am. Here we go.” So I show up with 40, 50 other fourth-class cadets, and we come to find out it was for us, and we were going to go through who was going to be the class officers. So first off, as I look back on that experience, a lot of respect and no humility being asked to go like represent Squadron 19, right? Like, I didn't volunteer, they just kind of pointed me in that direction, so we show up and got to interview with the upperclassmen, class officers, and there's funny interview questions, real serious interview questions. You know, I was just honest, right? Like, I'm here. This is what I think about what being a leader looks like, and how I could help serve the class, not thinking I would ever be selected, right? And as the night is going on, and ACQ is right around the corner, they kind of whittle it down to four or five of us, and we get up in front of the rest of the cadets and classmates that were there, and it was an open forum, like you know, back in Rome times, like you're standing in the gauntlet, Yeah, like it was like Roman voting, right? And asked a bunch of questions, and I remember standing up there with, you know, preppies, prior enlisted, and then me, just like straight off the street, and there's a couple other of us up there, and just answer the questions honestly, and at the end of that, there was a vote, and you know, they read the results, and I was like, "Holy smokes, I'm class president. How did this, how did this happen,” right? And I think there's a lot that — it was daunting at first, right? And then also, like, “This is awesome, I don't know what I'm getting into,” right? I just found out about it. I remember walking back on the Tizo. This was the first time I can say this now, because you know, grad, and I didn't run the strips because the upperclassmen and class officers walked me back, and I distinctly remember to — back to my squadron to — Jordan Kraft and Forrest Underwood walked back and were given some mentorship to me, like here's how to succeed, here's things we would recommend, and it was just an awesome opportunity to like kind of learn what pure leadership looks like, what it means to be in this not org chart that is unique to the Academy, and that's where the, that's where the adventure started for class president. I'm still, I haven't been fired yet, and I still proudly serve the Class of 2011 — Robin Olds’ class — as their class president, and it's one of the best jobs that I have the privilege of doing. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 4:10 My goodness. I mean, just to unpack that a little bit, obviously, in basic cadet training, you did enough to impress your cadre, I'm sure that there was probably some sort of cadre selection to bring however many of them forth first. Would you say that you would you agree with that, or is that — am I way off? Col. Joe Bledsoe 4:28 Yeah, I would say —I think when I look back my time at basic training, like I wanted to come to the Academy since I was in your school, right? So, like, I thrived — I'm not saying it was easy by any means, right? We all know that, but I thrived in like this new adventure, right? And I took everything, I embraced everything. I think that may have been something they saw, right? Like I was clay to be molded, right? And I had some prior opportunities in basic to show that to my BCT cadre, and they picked up on it. It wasn't that I was trying, but I think looking back on that experience, there was moments of like my freshness, my eagerness, my like pride in that I made it to basic training, that I wanted to just try as hard as I could, and I think some of that probably shown through, and ultimately may have been why I was selected to go try that interview process, right? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 5:20 So that interview process, at the end of the day, you were elected by your peers, and you know it — to your point — you said in that unusual, the not normal org chart, right, the one that doesn't exist, but yet you have leadership of your class. What did that look like? How did that translate? Because not many of us are class president, I'm certainly not my class president, and so I'm not sure what that leadership role looks like. Can you share a little bit more about some examples? Col. Joe Bledsoe 5:46 Yeah, I think that that leadership role was very different each year, right? As a freshman and a sophomore, as a four-degree and a three-degree, before any official academy leadership position starts to present themselves, that they do for two-degrees and firsties, it was a lot of helping the class stay as a collective whole, right? So one of the first big things as freshmen was selecting our class exemplar, right? And running like — how do, who do we select? How do we come together and figure that process out? How do we then, once we have a name, once we selected Robin Olds, how do we have a formal dining in? Things that I had never even heard of, right? As well as on the other side, the shenanigans, right? So, the spirit missions, right? There was many times I've had to go to the commandant's office and say, I don't know where the class crest is, like, out of pure honesty, right? But, like, that is, that was like a way, as an underclassman, that we kind of got that informal leadership, but also you're the leader by default here, so we're gonna, we're gonna make you accountable for your class. So I got to see both sides, that transitioning a little bit more to two-degree and first a year was now taking a little bit step back in writing in the informal leadership position, so I looked as myself as like a supporting agent, supporting member to our cadet leadership, and I always presented that like, “Hey, if you need our class to do something, I will do that, but if militarily you own that, like, I'm not ever going to step on your toes or push back,” right? The other thing we got, I was able to do is also help provide, like, morale inputs, right? Like you kind of had the pulse of morale, I think, more as the class president sometimes than in the official leadership, so could help provide some inputs along those ways, and there are some, say more shenanigans or morale events that we get to help put forth and present those to the cadet leadership for official approval later on as we firsties. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 8:04 Gosh, well, that was, I mean, it's really insightful for us to understand some of the roles that a class president and class cabinet plays, and so understanding that it's — I like how you put it as a supporting agent to the formal leadership. And we're gonna touch on this a lot more, because I think there's going to be times when you'll share how you build that trust and credibility throughout, both when you're a cadet and as an officer. But before we jump there, I happen to find out, Joe, that you weren't coming to the Air Force Academy to become a fighter pilot, but to become a physician. Can we talk about that for a moment? Col. Joe Bledsoe 8:37 Absolutely, that's absolutely a — I came to the Air Force Academy, wanted to be a doctor. I knew I wanted to be a biology major. I declared, I think, the first day I could declare and went through the gauntlet of getting ready for med school applications, and I loved every second of it. It was awesome. Even my fellow classmates would say he was a huge nerd and studying all the time, because that was my goal, right? I came into the Academy, and I wanted to be a doctor, and I knew the gauntlet that is, that that is required to do such a thing. And I still love medicine, right? I still love — I think medicine is fascinating. Every time my probably get there someday, or in the conversation, but anytime my kids have to go to the ER, like I'm like, “Can I scrub in,” right? All that kind of stuff. Yeah, put me in. I love medicine, and it wasn't till the summer between my two-degree and firstie year did I have that midlife crisis at the age of 21 and then firstie year is when that crisis kind of came to a head, and new doors opened, and here we are today, right? So that, yes, you're absolutely right. Always wanted to be a doctor. I was still fascinated by medicine, but now I'm just a pilot. So, there we go. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 9:57 So, can we, can you expand a bit more on it? So, was it a decision you wanted to make or a decision you had to make? Col. Joe Bledsoe 10:03 Yeah, yeah, that's great. It was a decision I had to make, ultimately, myself. Right? No one, no one said, “Joe, you can't be a doctor.” So, the summer — there's two key things that really happened that helped influence that decision. The first one was the summer between two-degree in firstie year, I had the opportunity to deploy to the Middle East, and we've heard of Ops Air Force. You know Ops Air Force. Well, at that time we had a deployed Ops Air Force, so they sent cadets overseas to deployed locations to see what was, you know, to get the full experience in a deployed location. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:40 Wow. Col. Joe Bledsoe 10:40 So I had the opportunity to do that. Spent the summer in CENTCOM and kind of opened my eyes to… Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:47 Oh, Central Command. Col. Joe Bledsoe 10:47 Yeah, sorry, Central Command, and got to experience — I got attached to a C-130 unit, right, and I got to see what flying looked like in a deployed environment, and I kind of opened my eyes, where I've been hyper focused on medicine, right? Like, you know, so focused on this is what it takes to be a doctor. I kind of like put my blinders on to what the rest of the Air Force did, right? So I was like, “This is pretty, this is, these guys and gals are doing awesome stuff, like this is this is the pointy end of what was going on.” And that planted a seed, that planted a seed. So it came back, firstie year was doing the med school applications, going through, I had some free time in my academic calendar, and I got to go down to the airfield and do the powered flight program. So, I got to see flying over the summer, and then I was blessed enough to have the opportunity to go fly an airplane, and I was like, “OK, the seed was planted, let's see if I get air sick, like, let's see if there's anything else here that might make me not want to do this.” And I loved it. Right, I fell in love with flying down at the airfield. I came back, and I was like, I'm gonna pause the med school applications and put my name in the hat for pilot training, and the rest was history, right? So, doors open, doors close, right? But that was my story, and I loved getting to talk to cadets about that, because so many can be — so many times we see some that are hyper focused, and like there's always other options out there, and it's OK to have a crisis we can talk you through. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 12:23 I think that's a fantastic lesson that you actually learned early, because you know it's interesting — had you not been sent to Ops Air Force at a deployed location, you might not have taken Alex flight, and so you know when you think about leadership opportunities and lessons, this is one of those moments where it actually steered you in a new direction. So, as we think about that, I'm curious, how your family responded to that, because, you know, you had come to the Air Force Academy to be a doctor. Were they happy for you? Were they surprised, a little nervous? Col. Joe Bledsoe 12:57 Yeah, there was a ton of mentorship there, right? Not just from my family, but from upperclassmen peers, permanent party, like, “What are you doing? Like, you came here telling us this was your goal. Where did this new goal come from?” So, there was a lot of time talking that through, and I needed that myself. It wasn't, as you know, in any decision, like, it wasn't a snap decision. So, a lot of time walking through that decision process and leaning on mentors and kind of asking the questions, like I knew what four years of med school, and then residency, but I knew what that like, what does pilot training look like? How long does that take, right? So, a lot of questions to help answer, or to find answers through, and ultimately, my family was super supportive, super supportive, and they still joke, like, “Hey, how come you're not doctor.” Well, because I fly F-15s now, right? But all supportive all throughout the process, right? And that's where you lean on others, right? Lean on others, because it very much felt like a crisis, like I still have scar tissue over it. But looking back on it, it wasn't just me making — I ultimately made the decision, but they helped me through it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 14:08 That's fantastic. You know, I think about you as an officer, as a fighter pilot, and obviously there's a lot of steps you took to get there on the road was certainly not easy. Often, though, I think that there can be some misconceptions, or maybe this is accurate, that earlier in your pilot life or your aviator life, there's probably not a lot of leadership lessons where you're leading others. Maybe, maybe that's a misperception, and we'd love to talk about that. You know, how do you find the leadership opportunities then when you are, you know, you're party of one, right? You don't necessarily have any direct reports. What does leadership look like there? Col. Joe Bledsoe 14:43 Yeah, can we take that back to like some lessons I learned at the Academy? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 14:46 Oh, absolutely. Col. Joe Bledsoe 14:47 Right, I think, I think that's where I've leaned most heavily in, like, not in there's this difference between formal leadership and informal, positional versus informal, and I was blessed enough at a pretty young age to learn the plus — the how to succeed and how to fail in informal leadership. I've tried to carry that throughout my career. So when you say like the younger days of being a wingman in the F-15 community, it's a lot about credibility. It's a lot about that peer leadership. How do you build the credibility? How do you build the trust to be someone that others look up to in that informal system, right, in that informal system. When they look down their phone, like, “Who do I call? Who do I have to call? Who do I want to call?” Right? and I think that's where you have to balance some of that stuff, and I spent time thinking about that, and trying to lean on lessons that I learned from the Academy, and while formal leadership positions were never handed to me, that doesn't mean you're not a leader, right? Like, you can't beat it, doesn't mean you don't just get to sit back and not lead. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 16:02 Can you share an example of a time when you learned that about yourself, or what that looked like? Col. Joe Bledsoe 16:09 In the flying world? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 16:11 Or as a cadet? Col. Joe Bledsoe 16:12 Yeah, as a cadet, I think the biggest one was — I'll take it back to, like, freshman, sophomore year, where I learned one of the key pillars that I'm convinced the Air Force Academy teaches all us grads about is time management, right? And I thought I was pretty good at time management, and then when you're now the president of 1,000 other cadets, your inbox fills up very quickly, right? Or you're like, “I thought I was good at time management.” And I learned very quickly that you can't do it alone, right? You can't do it alone, and I had to learn to surround myself with people that I trusted and that I could delegate or hand tasks off to, and just say, “I need this accomplished,” and I did that to my friends that I knew would get the mission done, right? And I had to have that level of trust, and I think that is translated throughout my career, where I inherently trust people with a project, right? I think there's two versions of trust, inherent trust and earned trust. When I look at the graduate network, whether that's the Air Force Academy, Navy, West Point, and I see a class ring, I'm like, “I inherently trust you,” and I can, I believe, or I see some other veterans have on — like, “I inherently trust you,” and then in other cases where I've had to learn and work with people, it's now, “I'm earning your trust, and I hope you're earning mine as well,” and that is this unique balance of I inherently trust you, I learned that at the Academy. Now let's build on that as a foundation and get this earned trust to as high as we can. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 17:54 What does some of that earned trust or becoming more credible look like when young leaders don't have the benefit of time? Right, so I, the more time I work with you, the more I learn about you. You build that credibility, etc. How does one accomplish that, maybe either shorten the gap or do that a little quicker or impactfully earlier? Col. Joe Bledsoe 18:18 Yeah, time is always — like we always need more time, right? How often do you say, like, “I only have 24 hours, but I need more time,” right? So, if we're always fighting time, like, and everybody's fighting time, then, like, that's a constant. So, let's not worry about time. So, I look at it as, like, what traits do people bring to the table, or what traits can we can we sharpen? Honesty, right? Honesty is huge. You have to be honest, and that's a pillar of trust. Integrity, right? Integrity first and showing people that you display integrity is really important. Humility, I think, is also really important. Humility is really important. I was listening to a podcast the other day, and it really struck home to me, a sense of humility is — if a leader is able to say three things, they're gonna — I know I could, I can build that trust, no matter what that time gap is. “I’m sorry,” “I was wrong,” or one of the seven basic responses: “I don't know, but I'll find out,” right? I think that's really important with humility. The other one is presence, not with a T, like we're not giving presents, but presence. Being present is really important character trait in my mind, and the fifth one that I try to reflect on a lot is action. Right? I think defaulting to not doing something is not what we want. That doesn't help build trust. Taking action with what knowledge you have and making a decision is really important, and I think those are the traits that help build that credibility, help build that trust in that time gap, whatever that looks like. If you can hit those, the five that I try to hit home. If you can do that, hopefully you're building that relationship that is going to foster — have great fruition out of it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 20:06 That's outstanding, and that's really helpful, I think. I love how you took out the constant of time being an excuse, right? Like, we don't always have the benefit of time, whether it's time and getting more experience or just time in general, I think those are outstanding examples of how you can build credibility. So, thank you for sharing that. You know, one of the things that I also would love to kind of dig into a little bit of your experiences, Joe — because they've been really vast, right? So, I don't believe that everyone has the same kind of path. How have you grown as a leader in these different experiences that really, again, aren't positional leadership roles? I'm just curious, how your growth has been in that space. Col. Joe Bledsoe 20:47 Think a lot of it's been through failure. I think a lot of it's been through failure. These might not be huge, like we lost a million dollars, or like, not through those kind of failures, but relationship failures, or conversation failure at the micro level, and how I've tried to handle that is surround myself with people that will tell me that the emperor — I'm gonna go back to the, I'm gonna go back to the old fairy tale, or fable, right? If you surround yourself with people that are able to come up to you, and you trust them, and you trust their feedback, that is something I've tried, that was Cadet Bledsoe, advice given to me is Cadet Bledsoe. Surround yourself with people that you will listen to and take their feedback honestly. And sometimes that means if I don't have that person in the room and I know I fumbled a conversation or I made a poor decision, it's going to that individual and saying, “I messed up, I’m sorry, I was wrong,” or “I don't know,” right. And that's how I try to use that to present humility, I think, and that's important, because we're all fallible, we all make mistakes, and if I can't admit that, then, like, we're off to the wrong foot right away. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 22:06 Do you think some of that that skill that you've developed over time has been something that you've learned in, and forgive me, I don't know if it's a fighter pilot community, specifically, or you know, I think about when you do your sorties and you have some sort of debrief, right? I feel what I've heard, I've not actually sat in one, but they're very real. Like, there's no, it's not about making you feel good about it, like it's about the safety and the mission, and so I'm curious, if that skill of humility, and you know, calling a spade a spade, and calling it I'm wrong and I'm wrong, did that come from some of that experience, and maybe you can talk through what that's like, because not everyone, I think, practices at that level of transparency. Col. Joe Bledsoe 22:46 Yeah, the fighter pilot debrief. I learned some of the importance of that through mentorship as a cadet, and then that was sharpened as a fighter pilot. And I learned the importance of that through the form, my formal job, right, the mission, the lives at stake, aircraft, that kind of stuff. And I think I've tried, I've only honed that skill through Air Force training, right? The Air Force has trained me to think like that, and I've tried to translate that into my personal life and leadership positions, because I think there's tons of value to that. There is tons of value in being willing to find a mistake, own up to that mistake with the knowledge and hope that it doesn't happen again, right? And if that is like, if you, if that's your north star, we don't do this again, like, why wouldn't you want to be on that team? Why wouldn't, why don't you want to be? That's how we get better, right? And I think that seed again was planted as a cadet. Like, let's, I tell cadets all the time, like, you're joining the A-team, so put in A effort, right? Like, if you're going to join the A-team, I don't want B-players, and this is what we got to get, like, let's go, right? It's a motivating factor in my mind. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 24:08 What are some of the ways to approach that in a leadership conversation for someone who would be interested in taking on some of those, those learned lessons? Col. Joe Bledsoe 24:18 Yeah, I think the first thing is transparency and honesty right up front. Like this, Naviere, if we were flying together, right and you were my instructor, your job is not to degrade me as a human, but to prove to me that I made a mistake with the ultimate goal of making me better, right? Your job is to always, like — and the relationship you and I have as an instructor and a student is my — I'm gonna sit here in the debrief and go, and Naviere is here to make me better, right? Like, that's your, that's your job, right? Right. So, once you start that as the foundation, like, it can only get better if I know your job is to make me better, and your job is I'm supposed to make this guy better, right. And often we can, when feedback is provided, you're like, this could be a personal attack, or, like, that's all left out, that's all left outside the debrief room, right? Like, we're here to make everybody better, and I think that's where it starts: with that transparency and honesty up front of the expectation. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 25:15 So you'll actually say that. You would actually… Col. Joe Bledsoe 25:17 No, I think that's just a common, that's a common theme, right? That's the expectation in the community. And not just in the fighter community. I think it's throughout the Air Force, right? I think that's what makes us really, really unique. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 25:32 Because feedback is something that we, we do — although maybe some can do it better than others — I think that's a really fantastic way — before you're giving someone feedback, you're really clear on this is what we're hoping to accomplish by having this time together. And so, I think what you just said can make feedback so much more impactful, because it's not about the person, it's about what are we trying to accomplish and helping you, I guess. It is about you, but ultimately helping you. Col. Joe Bledsoe 25:59 Absolutely, right? Like the where every debrief starts is we had a mission objective and we had tactical objectives. Did we do them? If we didn't, let's figure out why, right? So translating to the business world or private sector, it's a root cause analysis, right? It's a root cause analysis, and we will get down to the nitty gritty of like, what type of error — did you make a decision error? Did you perceive the environment wrong? Did your actions cause the error, right? And we get down to that level, so that when the student, student Paveway walks away, Naviere, knows, Naviere, you gave me the exact, like, you decided wrong, because X, Y and Z; don't do that again. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 26:43 Right. Col. Joe Bledsoe 26:44 Here's your fix. You know, that debrief can take hours, and that's the beauty of it, right? “We're gonna sit there, and we're not gonna let anything not be uncovered, because we're gonna go do this again tomorrow, and we can't make the same mistake tomorrow,” right? “We can't make the same mistake.” Col. Naviere Walkewicz 27:01 No, that's, that's fantastic. I mean, to have it that clear, and to know it, like, OK, we're not gonna, we don't stay in that space. We've addressed it, we know we've identified a fix, and we move forward. Is that what you said? Col. Joe Bledsoe 27:12 Absolutely. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 27:13 There's no like, continue to revisit, like… Col. Joe Bledsoe 27:15 Yep, that's the point, right? Like, “I've learned something, I know, I've acknowledged my mistake. Let's move on. This wasn't personal, this was you making me better.” Iron sharpens iron, right? So, here we go, and then move on. And now that translates, as you asked kind of a couple minutes ago, right, that can translate to so many things in your life, right? And I try to do that sometimes, like my wife will tell me, I go too fighter pilot, but there's versions of that that translate as we are not in a fight or pilot debrief. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 27:50 You literally got in my head because I was gonna say, now I want to put you on the spot, because Joe, you are married to your high school sweetheart, you make a 2% club, right? Like, you actually started the Academy with a sweetheart and ended with the same sweetheart. And now you have three amazing, beautiful children. How do you translate that to, you know, feedback to your family or your personal life? And I love how your wife said too fighter pilot, but how about to your kids? Col. Joe Bledsoe 28:15 Yeah, married my high school sweetheart, Alicia. We started dating our sophomore year, and we've been together ever since. So she is not a grad, but she has a lot of Air Force in her blood, so that's great, and the kids, I would say there's a couple things when it comes to taking some things I've learned or been trained in the Air Force, translating on the home front. The first one goes to accountability, right? I think accountability is really important because in an aircraft, you have to be accountable for your actions, and I think that translates to being a parent, as well as trying to teach the kids some humility. Right, where to be humble, when to own up to your mistakes, and sometimes that works in the fighter pilot way, sometimes it doesn't, and I think that's leadership, right? You can have leadership skills and be consistent in some, in some ways, but other times adaptability is really important, especially with the kids, and each one of my kids is very unique, and we have to cater to each one of them and their unique skills. I will say about my wife, I love her with all my heart, but she knows the words “knock it off” as well, right, because that's a sacred word, not just in the military, but on our, in our homefront, and that usually means stop being a full fighter pilot, like go back to being Dad, right? So she knows, she knows the words and how to make that all go down. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 29:47 I love that it's another language, right? You have your, your fighter pilot language, and you have a home front language. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. You know, I'd like to switch gears a little bit to your time operationally, and maybe this translates into now your work at the Institute, or your most recent work at the Institute for Future Conflict and preparing cadets for the future fight. I'm curious, how all of these skills that you've learned, and these leadership traits that you've continued to develop in yourself, have translated in moments of, you know, like, real conflict, real distress, like when the stakes are high, and how you prepare cadets to think that way, even though maybe they've not experienced that. I'm just curious, what that looks like. Col. Joe Bledsoe 30:31 Yeah, it is hard to translate — like cadets love war stories, right? Like, “So there I was…” but it's hard to translate some of, like, the putting, having the cadets put themselves in the shoes of someone that has 15 years of flying under their belt, right? Like, that's hard for them to grasp, and I understand that, and that's not what I'm asking of them to do, but there are certain skills that I think are really important, and that I've got to experience and talk to cadets and research and spend time thinking about at the Institute for Future Conflict at the IFC. One is risk, right? How do we, how do we think about risk, right? Are we risk prone? We risk adverse? How do we think about risk, not just in this moment, but how does our decision today affect five days from now, a month, right? And, as you remember, because I know it happened to you as a cadet, like you're just in the, like, “What's my next problem,” right? What's my next — OK, how does, like, fixing this problem affect next week? Right. And I think that's what I've got had the opportunity to think a lot about the IFC, as well as try one thing I've learned being back here at the Academy was my experience as a cadet is not the same experience as the cadets now. And what do I mean by that is when I graduated, GWOT, Global War on Terror was the thing we knew what we were getting into. I very much knew flying, going to the Middle East. Now the cadets looked to me and other permanent party, and like, what's our fight going to look like? And right, the question mark is, I don't know, but let me tell you, think about this, and I could be wrong, and I think that is where I've had a lot of time to think about future conflict and what's problems, maybe not nations or adversaries, but like big meta level things they'll have to think about, information access, information sharing, trust, right? How do you, how do you help develop some of these skills in the cadets? And that's where I've spent a lot of time the last two years trying to think and spend, spend some brain bytes, like what does air power look like in this unknown environment? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 32:52 And as you're about to step back into it, I'm thoughtful of that, and so now you're taking what you've helped cadets start to hone in and think about. How are you different now as a leader going back into the cockpit than you were when you came to the Academy? Col. Joe Bledsoe 33:09 Yeah, let me get back to the cockpit, and everyone can tell me what, how I'm different. We'll use that as the test. But here's one thing I think — I've reflected on this recently, going back to the Strike Eagle community. One has been my exposure here in Colorado Springs and at the Air Force Academy, meaning I've learned a lot about what others do that I wasn't — I knew other jobs existed, I knew other AFSCs did things, but not being in a flying day-to-day ops tempo, I've had the opportunity to sit down and, like, “What do you say you do?” “Oh, that has some effects here, here, and here,” and I use a specific vignette would be, I've got to spend a lot of time in the management department and helped teach in the global logistics minor, and like, I knew there was logisticians in the Air Force, and like, that's yeah, right? That's how stuff got here, but like, understanding the importance of, like, that's how my bombs got here, this is how the b…, right, like, truly understanding their frustrations, I think will make me get less frustrated in my day to day, right, and I think that has been one thing that the Academy has given back to me the second time I've been here, is a little bit more exposure to the Air Force, as well as the Space Force, being here in Colorado Springs, like seeing what each team member, like each cog in the machine brings to the fight, right? And I think that's been a blessing here. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 34:42 So those that you will begin to get back working with — your men and women in your community — they won't have had that exposure, and so I'm now going back to our where we started with the sense of informal leadership. How do you help others gain that experience and thought, and maybe thought process informally, since they haven't really been exposed to that? How would you help them navigate it? Col. Joe Bledsoe 35:09 Naviere, I think the best way to do stuff like that is, like, you raised your hand when you said logistics officers, like Naviere, we're doing a podcast with my next squadron, you're coming to talk, right? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 35:19 Right, it's like that was like a long time ago, we need someone more recent. Col. Joe Bledsoe 35:24 But, OK, Naviere, it's not you, but you know people, that's how stuff gets done, right, that's how stuff gets done. And while I by no means want to stand up in front of everybody and say I'm the expert on logistics, but I, I'm not that person, but I trust Naviere, Naviere's contact here, and that's how, like, you create this network of knowledge and this network of trust and credibility. And to my, to the fighter pilots that I'll be flying with, it's somewhat like throwing mud at the wall sometimes, like we're gonna keep throwing mud and see what sticks, but at least they know it's there, right? Like, we're gonna, your job is still to go kill things and blow things up, but at the same time, you know there's this other network out there that you can lean into. But let me be a conduit to make that happen. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 36:15 That is awesome. That's fantastic. So I want to go into this period now, where we talk about you and your continued growth as a leader. What is something, Joe, that you're doing every day to be a better leader? Col. Joe Bledsoe 36:30 I have mentors, and I've tried to find mentees. I think that is where growth can happen, leaning on others for mentorship and mentees to try to talk through some things you've thought through and give experience and exposure to others, right? And that's that network we were just talking about, right? Other things I think are really important is reading and writing. Read a lot, write a lot, nobody writes good anymore, right? Thanks, ChatGPT. But being able to communicate in the written form is really important. So, writing and reading. And the other thing, too, is as a leader, just find an outlet, find something, find a hobby, find something that's fun to do, right. So, I got into running here at the Academy, because we're at high elevation, and I'm, why not, right? But find something that, like, rounds you out, right? It's fine, find an outlet that helps give you some relief from all the stresses that can happen in leadership. That's where I would say I spend a lot of time, or what I think about trying to sharpen my skills. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 37:34 Daily. So, what are you reading right now? Col. Joe Bledsoe 37:37 Oh, that's a great question. I have a couple books that are on the table. Mask of Command is one that I'm reading as I get ready to go back and potentially be in a leadership role. There's a couple other books that come to mind. I'm reading a baseball coaching book, because I coach my baseball, it’s a basketball book by Coach K from Duke, as I go back to North Carolina, but it's a book, how to coach kids, right, Leadership on the Court, and it's fun to just think about training and coaching kids and how to keep them inspired. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 38:18 Oh, that's awesome. So, speaking of kids, if you were to go back in time, and talk to younger Joe Bledsoe, the third, what advice would you give him? Col. Joe Bledsoe 38:30 Yeah, if I had to go back, I would say it's worth it. Every second, work hard at the Academy, right? The doors that it opens, that's where my mind went when you asked the question, like, younger me at the Academy. Be good to Alicia, my wife, right? Be good, because she's going to be with you for a long time. So be good to her, as well as foster your, foster your friendships. They're going to mean a lot to you in the future, right? The relationships you build on that hill are going to come back in ways you have no idea years to come. So take time and prioritize the people that you meet. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 39:10 Those are really great reflections. Joe, is there anything that we haven't covered in our conversation that you would love to share with our Long Blue Leadership listeners and viewers? Col. Joe Bledsoe 39:24 Absolutely, be proud of this institution. I'm proud of it. I know you are too, Naviere. Proud of this Academy. Be proud of the cadets, be proud of the permanent party that work here. There's an A-team out there, and this is this is where it starts, right? And it's not just if you're serving in blue or in the Space Force, right? If you're out there doing awesome things for our country on the private, in the private sector, thank you. Keep doing what you're doing. There's no shade of blue in the Long Blue Line, that's my, my phrase for that one. There's no shade of blue. Serve your country, be proud. And that's — just be proud to be an Academy grad. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 40:07 That's fantastic. So, you know, in our time together, I have loved this, this, this leadership conversation, because we really span an area that I don't think a lot of people talk about, and it's, how do you demonstrate leadership in an informal way, you know, without titles and without necessarily key positions or in the hierarchical structure, and so some of the things that really stood with me, Joe, that you've covered, have been being credible, being present, and humble. I really like that, and you didn't say this in these words, but what I took from that was, you know, being honest and truthful is almost one of the most kind ways you can be right, because you're actually helping someone be better, and that really stuck with me, you know. I don't, we have an A-team, we don't need B-players, that I think you exactly said that, so definitely stuck with me. But watching the way that you have led, not with your class, not just the cadets, and, you know, certainly not the squadron that you will have here shortly as a director of operations, but I think you've continued to just be who you've always been, which is someone who leads with integrity through those pillars and certainly by example. So this has been an incredible conversation, and for anyone that is watching us and listening to this, for others that are in their leadership journeys, this is another one you're going to want to share, because it's not just about, you know, Lt. Col. Bledsoe's journey right now, it's been all of these moments and experiences and memories and they really do connect with anyone on a leadership journey. So, be sure to join in on longblueleadership.org [https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fleadership.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cbryan.grossman%40usafa.org%7Ce6e5d569266945d839d608dec8810583%7Ce6421ec329ed4f09a13a96e310c5ba80%7C0%7C0%7C639168653673449606%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rf6pQxvT8E6kRXKRpBr5Zb70jobS8PXD8t1DkpkMNHM%3D&reserved=0] or wherever you get your podcasts, not just to see this one, but all of our other conversations. So, Joe, thank you so much for joining us today. Col. Joe Bledsoe 41:46 Thank you Naviere. Go Air Force! Col. Naviere Walkewicz 41:48 Go Air Force! Col. Joe Bledsoe 41:49 There we go. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 41:50 Absolutely, until next time, we'll see you on Long Blue Leadership. KEYWORDS informal leadership, peer leadership, Air Force Academy leadership, USAFA class president, fighter pilot debrief culture, building trust and credibility, leadership humility, future conflict and airpower, Long Blue Leadership podcast, military leadership lessons. The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation

23 de jun de 2026 - 42 min