THE LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP PODCAST

Get Back Up: Lessons in Servant Leadership

Purpose, trust and laughter matter.  SUMMARY Dr. Heather Wilson ’82, former secretary of the U.S. Air Force, and Gen. Dave Goldfein ’83, former chief of staff of the Air Force, highlight the human side of leadership — honoring family, listening actively and using humility and humor to build strong teams. Their book, Get Back Up: Lessons in Servant Leadership, challenges leaders to serve first and lead with character.   SHARE THIS PODCAST LINKEDIN  [https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/get-back-up-lessons-in-servant-leadership/?token=608689a064d74c9679bd8b1aaa4ac0e3] |  FACEBOOK  [https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/get-back-up-lessons-in-servant-leadership/?token=608689a064d74c9679bd8b1aaa4ac0e3]   TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS FROM THIS EPISODE 1. Leadership Is a Gift and a Burden – Leaders are entrusted with the well-being and development of others, but that privilege entails tough, sometimes lonely, responsibilities. 2. Servant Leadership – True leadership is about enabling and supporting those you lead, not seeking personal advancement or recognition. 3. Influence and Teamwork – Lasting change comes from pairing authority with influence and working collaboratively; no leader succeeds alone. 4. Embrace Failure and Own Mistakes – Effective leaders accept institutional and personal failures and use them as learning and teaching moments. 5. Family Matters – Great leaders recognize the significance of family (their own and their team’s) and demonstrate respect and flexibility for personal commitments. 6. Be Data-Driven and Strategic – Borrow frameworks that suit the mission, be clear about goals, and regularly follow up to ensure progress. 7. Listening Is Active – Truly listening, then responding openly and honestly—even when you can’t “fix” everything—builds trust and respect. 8. Humility and Curiosity – Never stop learning or questioning; continual self-improvement is a hallmark of strong leaders. 9. Celebrate and Share Credit – Spread praise to those working behind the scenes; leadership is not about personal glory, but lifting others. 10. Resilience and Leading by Example – “Getting back up” after setbacks inspires teams; how a leader recovers can motivate others to do the same.   CHAPTERS 0:00:00 - Introduction and Welcome 0:00:21 - Guest Backgrounds and Family Legacies 0:02:57 - Inspiration for Writing the Book 0:05:00 - Defining Servant Leadership 0:07:46 - Role Models and Personal Examples   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org [Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org] Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org [socialmedia@usafa.org]   <---> Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org [Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org]  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org [Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org] Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org [Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org]      ALL PAST LBL EPISODES [https://www.longblueleadership.org/]  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS [https://www.podbean.com/podcast-network/longbluelinepodcast] AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS Host: Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99 Guests: Dr. Heather Wilson ’82, former Secretary of the U.S. Air Force, and former Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. (Ret.) Dave Goldfein ’83  Naviere Walkewicz 0:09 Welcome to Focus on Leadership, our accelerated leadership series. I'm your host, Naviere Walkewicz, Class of ’99. I'm honored to welcome two exceptional leaders whose careers and friendship have helped shape the modern Air Force, while inspiring thousands to serve with purpose and courage. Our guests today are Dr. Heather Wilson, USAFA Class of ’82, the 24th secretary of the Air Force, now president at the University of Texas El Paso. And Gen. Dave Goldfein, Class of ’83, the 21st chief of staff of the Air Force. Both are United States Air Force Academy distinguished graduates. Together, they've written Get Back Up: Lessons in Servant Leadership, a powerful reflection on resilience, humility and the courage to lead to adversity. And our conversation today will dive deeply into the lessons they learned at the highest levels of command and in public service, and what it means to serve others first. Thank you for being here. Gen. Dave Goldfein 1:08 Thank you for having us. Naviere Walkewicz 1:09 Absolutely. This is truly an honor. And I mentioned that I read this incredible book, and I'm so excited for us to jump into it, but before we do, I think it's really important for people to know you more than the secretary and the chief. I mean chief, so Gen. Goldfein, you came from an Air Force family. Your dad was a colonel, and ma'am, your grandpa was a civil aviator, but you really didn't have any other military ties. Dr. Heather Wilson 1:29 Well, my grandfather was one of the first pilots in the RAF in World War I, then came to America, and in World War II, flew for his new country in the Civil Air Patrol. My dad enlisted by that a high school and was a crew chief between the end of the Second World War and the start of Korea, and then he went back home and became a commercial aviator and a mechanic. Naviere Walkewicz 1:52 I love that. So your lines run deep. So maybe you can share more and let our listeners get to know you more personally. What would you like to share in this introduction of Gen. Goldfein and Dr. Wilson? Gen. Dave Goldfein 2:02 Well, I'll just tell you that if you know much about Air Force culture you know we all get call signs, right. Nicknames, right? I got a new one the day I retired, and you get to use it. It's JD, which stands for “Just Dave.” Naviere Walkewicz 2:17 Just Dave! Yes, sir. JD. I will do my best for that to roll off my tongue. Yes, sir. Gen. Dave Goldfein 2:25 And I will just say congratulations to you for your two sons who are currently at the Academy. How cool is that? Naviere Walkewicz 2:31 Thank you. We come from a Long Blue Line family. My dad was a grad, my uncle, my brother and sister, my two boys. So if I get my third son, he'll be class of 2037, so, we’ll see. We’ve got some time. Gen. Dave Goldfein 2:41 We have grandchildren. Matter of fact, our book is dedicated to grandchildren and they don't know it yet, but at least on my side, they're Class of 2040 and 2043 at the Air Force Academy. Naviere Walkewicz 2:52 OK, so my youngest will be cadre for them. Excellent. Excellent. Dr. Heather Wilson 2:57 And my oldest granddaughter is 4, so I think we'll wait a little bit and see what she wants to do. Naviere Walkewicz 3:04 Yes, ma'am. All right. Well, let's jump in. You just mentioned that you wrote the book primarily for your film book. Is that correct? Gen. Dave Goldfein 3:09 Yes. Naviere Walkewicz 3:10 How did you decide to do this now together? Because you both have incredible stories. Dr. Heather Wilson 3:14 Well, two years ago, we were actually up in Montana with Barbara and Craig Barrett, who —  Barbara succeeded me as secretary of the Air Force. And our families, all six of us are quite close, and we were up there, and Dave was telling stories, and I said, “You know, you need to write some of these down.” And we talked about it a little bit, and he had tried to work with another co-author at one time and it just didn't work out really well. And I said, “Well, what if we do it together, and we focus it on young airmen, on lessons learned in leadership. And the other truth is, we were so tired of reading leadership books by Navy SEALs, you know, and so can we do something together? It turned out to be actually more work than I thought it would be for either of us, but it was also more fun.   Naviere Walkewicz 3:59 How long did it take you from start to finish? Dr. Heather Wilson 4:02 Two years. Naviere Walkewicz 4:03 Two years? Excellent. And are you — where it's landed? Are you just so proud? Is it what you envisioned when you started? Gen. Dave Goldfein 4:10 You know, I am, but I will also say that it's just come out, so the initial response has been fantastic, but I'm really eager to see what the longer term response looks like, right? Did it resonate with our intended tenant audience? Right? Did the young captains that we had a chance to spend time with at SOS at Maxwell last week, right? They lined up forever to get a copy. But the real question is, did the stories resonate? Right? Do they actually give them some tools that they can use in their tool bag? Same thing with the cadets that we were privileged to spend time with the day. You know, they energized us. I mean, because we're looking at the we're looking at the future of the leadership of this country. And if, if these lessons in servant leadership can fill their tool bag a little bit, then we'll have hit the mark. Naviere Walkewicz 5:07 Yes, sir, yes. Ma'am. Well, let's jump right in then. And you talked about servant leadership. How would you describe it? Each of you, in your own words, Dr. Heather Wilson 5:15 To me, one of the things, important things about servant leadership is it's from the bottom. As a leader, your job is to enable the people who are doing the work. So in some ways, you know, people think that the pyramid goes like this, that it's the pyramid with the point at the top, and in servant leadership, it really is the other way around. And as a leader, one of the most important questions I ask my direct reports — I have for years — is: What do you need from me that you're not getting? And I can't print money in the basement, but what do you need from me that you're not getting? How, as a leader, can I better enable you to accomplish your piece of the mission. And I think a good servant leader is constantly thinking about, how do I — what can I do to make it easier for the people who are doing the job to get the mission done? Gen. Dave Goldfein 6:08 And I'd offer that the journey to becoming an inspirational servant leader is the journey of a lifetime. I'm not sure that any of us actually ever arrive. I'm not the leader that I want to be, but I'm working on it. And I think if we ever get to a point where we feel like we got it all figured out right, that we know exactly what this whole leadership gig is, that may be a good time to think about retiring, because what that translates to is perhaps at that point, we're not listening, we're not learning, we're not growing, we're not curious — all the things that are so important. The first chapter in the book is titled, Am I worthy? And it's a mirror-check question that we both came to both individually and together as secretary and chief. It's a mere check that you look at and say, “All right, on this lifelong journey to become an inspirational servant leader, am I worthy of the trust and confidence of the parents who have shared their sons and daughters with the United States Air Force and expecting us to lead with character and courage and confidence? Am I worthy of the gift that followers give to leaders? Am I earning that gift and re-earning it every single day by how I act, how I treat others?” You know, that's the essence of servant leadership that we try to bring forward in the book. Naviere Walkewicz 7:38 Right? Can you recall when you first saw someone exhibiting servant leadership in your life? Dr. Heather Wilson 7:46 Good question. It's a question of role models. Maj. William S. Reeder was my first air officer commanding here. And while I think I can probably think of some leaders in my community, you know, people who were school principals or those kind of things, I think Maj. Reeder terrified me because they didn't want to disappoint him. And he had — he was an Army officer who had been shot down as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. He still had some lingering issues. Now, I think he had broken his leg or his back or something, and so you could tell that he still carried with him the impact of that, but he had very high expectations of us and we didn't want to disappoint him. And I think he was a pretty good role model. Gen. Dave Goldfein 8:47 You know, one of the things we say at the very end of the book is that we both married up. We both married incredible leaders, servant leaders in their own right. So in my case, I married my high school sweetheart, and we've now been together almost 43 years, coming up on 43. And when you talk about servant leadership, you know, very often we don't give military spouses enough credit for the enormous courage that they have when they deal with the separations, the long hours, very often not talked about enough, the loneliness that comes with being married to someone who's in the military. And so I just give a shout out to every military spouse that's out there and family to thank them for that very special kind of courage that equates to servant leadership on their part. Naviere Walkewicz 9:47 Excellent. Those are both really great examples, and I think, as our listeners are engaging with this, they're going to start to think about those people in their lives as well, through your descriptions. Early in the book, you make this statement: “Leadership is a gift and a burden.” Might you both expand on that?   Dr. Heather Wilson 10:03 So it's a gift in that it’s a gift that's given to you by those whom you are privileged to lead, and it's not just an institution that, you know, it's not just the regents of the University of Texas who have said, “Yes, you're going to be the president of the University of Texas at El Paso.” It is those who follow me who have given me gift of their loyalty and their service and their time. It's a burden, because some days are hard days, and you have to make hard calls based on values to advance the mission and, as chief and service secretary, there are no easy decisions that come walking into that part of the Pentagon. The easy decisions are all made before it gets to the service secretary and chief and so. So there is that responsibility of trying to do well difficult things. And I think sometimes those are lonely decisions. Gen. Dave Goldfein 11:09 And I think as a leader of any organization, part of what can be the burden is if you care deeply about the institution, then you carry the burden of any failures of that institution, both individuals who fall short, or the institution itself. And we face some of those, and we talk about that in the book. One of our chapters is on Sutherland Springs and owning failure. There was no dodge in that. And there was, quite frankly, there was an opportunity for us to actually showcase and teach others how to take ownership when the institution falls short and fails, right? And you know, one of the interesting elements of the relationship between a secretary and a chief is that if you go back and look at the law and read the job description of the chief of staff of the Air Force, it basically says, “Run the air staff and do what the secretary tells you.” I'm not making that up. Because most of the decision authority of the institution resides in the civilian control, the military civilian secretary. So almost all authority and decision authority resides with the secretary. What the chief position brings is 30 years in the institution that very often can bring credibility and influence. And what we determined early in our tenure was that if we were going to move the ball, if we were going to actually move the service in a positive direction, neither of us could do it alone. We had to do it together. We had to use this combination of authority and influence to be able to move the institution forward. And so that was a — and we talked a lot about that, you know, in the book, and it sort of runs throughout our stories. You know, that that trust matters. Naviere Walkewicz 12:59 Absolutely. We're going to visit that towards the end of our conversation, because there's a particular time before you both — before you became the chief and before you became the service secretary, when you met up together. And I want to visit that a little bit. But before we do, Gen. Goldfein — JD — you shared a story in the book, and obviously we want everyone to read it, so I'm not going to go tell the whole story, but you know where you took off one more time than you landed, and you had to, you know, you were hit, you had to evade and then you had to be rescued. There was a particular statement you made to identify yourself. And many of our Long Blue Line members will know this: fast, neat, average, friendly, good, good. In that moment of watching the sun start to rise while you're waiting to be retrieved, how did that come to your mind? Of all the things you could be thinking of to identify yourself? Gen. Dave Goldfein 13:53 Well, you know, it's interesting. So, you know, for those who've never, you know, had gone through a high-speed ejection, people asked me, what was like? I said, “Well, I used to be 6-foot-3. This is all that's left, right?” And you know, my job once I was on the ground was, quite frankly, not to goof it up. To let the rescue team do what the rescue team needed to do, and to play my part, which was to put them at the least amount of risk and be able to get out before the sun came up. And at the very end of the rescue when the helicopters — where I was actually vectoring them towards my location. And I had a compass in my hand, and I had my eyes closed, and I was just listening to the chopper noise and then vectoring them based on noise. And then eventually we got them to come and land, you know, right in front of me. Well, they always teach you, and they taught me here at the Academy during SERE training, which I think has been retitled, but it was SERE when we went through it, survival training. Now, I believe they teach you, “Hey, listen, you need to be nonthreatening, because the rescue team needs to know that you're not — this is not an ambush, that you are actually who you say you are. Don't hold up a weapon, be submissive and authenticate yourself. Well, to authenticate myself required me to actually try my flashlight. And I could see the enemy just over the horizon. And as soon as the helicopter landed, the enemy knew exactly where we were, and they came and running, and they came shooting, and they were raking the tree line with bullets. And so, you know, what I needed to do was to figure out a way to do an authentication. And I just, what came to mind was that training all those years ago, right here at the Academy, and I just said, “I could use a fast, neat, average rescue,” and friendly, good, good was on the way. Naviere Walkewicz 15:53 Wow, I just got chill bumps. Dr. Wilson, have you ever had to use that same kind of term, or, you know, reaching out to a grad in your time frequently? Dr. Heather Wilson 16:04 Yes, ma'am. And, you know, even in the last week, funny — I had an issue that I had to, I won't go into the details, but where there was an issue that might affect the reputation, not only of the university, but of one of our major industry partners, and it wasn't caused by either of us, but there was kind of a, kind of a middle person that was known to us that may not have been entirely acting with integrity. And I just looked up the company. The CEO is an Academy grad. So I picked up the phone and I called the office and we had a conversation. And I said, “Hey, I'd like to have a conversation with you, grad to grad.” And I said, “There are some issues here that I don't need to go into the details, but where I think you and I need to be a little careful about our reputations and what matters is my relationship as the university with you and your company and what your company needs in terms of talent. But wanted to let you know something that happened and what we're doing about it, but I wanted to make sure that you and I are clear.” And it was foundation of values that we act with integrity and we don't tolerate people who won't. Naviere Walkewicz 17:30 Yes, ma'am, I love that. The Long Blue Line runs deep that way, and that's a great example. JD, you spoke about, in the book, after the rescue — by the way, the picture in there of that entire crew was amazing. I love that picture. But you talked about getting back up in the air as soon as possible, without any pomp and circumstance. “Just get me back in the air and into the action.” I'd like to visit two things. One, you debriefed with the — on the check ride, the debrief on the check ride and why that was important. And then also you spoke about the dilemma of being dad and squad comm. Can you talk about that as well? Gen. Dave Goldfein 18:06 Yeah, the check ride. So when I was in Desert Storm, an incredible squadron commander named Billy Diehl, and one of the things that he told us after he led all the missions in the first 30 days or so, he said, “Look, there will be a lot of medals, you know, from this war.” He goes, “But I'm going to do something for you that happened for me in Vietnam. I'm going to fly on your wing, and I'm going to give you a check ride, and you're going to have a documented check ride of a combat mission that you led in your flying record. I'm doing that for you.” OK, so fast forward 10 years, now I'm the squadron commander, and I basically followed his lead. Said, “Hey, I want…” So that night, when I was shot down, I was actually flying on the wing of one of my captains, “Jammer” Kavlick, giving him a check ride. And so, of course, the rescue turns out — I'm sitting here, so it turned out great. And so I called Jammer into a room, and I said, “Hey, man, we never did the check ride.” I said, “You know, you flew a formation right over the top of a surface enemy missile that took out your wingman. That's not a great start.” And he just sort of… “Yes, sir, I know.” I said, “And then you led an all-night rescue that returned him to his family. That's pretty good recovery.” And so it's been a joke between us ever since. But in his personal — his flying record, he has a form that says, “I'm exceptionally, exceptionally qualified.” So I got back and I thought about this when I was on the ground collecting rocks for my daughters, you know, as souvenirs from Serbia. I got back, and I looked at my wing commander, and I said, “Hey, sir, I know you probably had a chance to think about this, but I'm not your young captain that just got shot down. I'm the squadron commander, and I’ve got to get my squadron back on the horse, and the only way to do that is for me to get back in the air. So if it's OK with you, I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna get crew rest and I’m going to fly tonight.” And he looked at me, and he looked at my wife, Dawn, who was there, and he goes, “If it's OK with her, it's OK with me.” Great. Dawn, just a champion, she said, “I understand it. That's what you got to do.” Because we were flying combat missions with our families at home, which is, was not in the squadron commander handbook, right? Pretty unique. What I found, though, was that my oldest daughter was struggling a little bit with it, and so now you've got this, you know, OK, I owe it to my squad to get right back up in the air and lead that night. And I owe it to my daughter to make sure that she's OK. And so I chose to take one night, make sure that she and my youngest daughter, Diana, were both, you know, in a good place, that they knew that everything's going to be OK. And then I got back up the next night. And in some ways, I didn't talk about it with anybody in the media for a year, because my dad was a Vietnam vet, I'd met so many of his friends, and I'd met so many folks who had actually gotten shot down one and two and three times over Vietnam, in Laos, right? You know what they did after they got rescued? They got back up. They just went back up in the air, right? No fanfare, no book tours, no, you know, nothing, right? It was just get back to work. So for me, it was a way of very quietly honoring the Vietnam generation, to basically do what they did and get back in the air quietly. And so that was what it was all about. Naviere Walkewicz 21:25 Dr. Wilson, how about for you? Because I know — I remember reading in the book you had a — there was something you said where, if your children called, no matter what they could always get through. So how have you balanced family? Dr. Heather Wilson 21:36 Work and life. And so, when I was elected to the Congress, my son was 4 years old. My daughter was 18 months. First of all, I married well, just like Dave. But I also think my obligations to my family don't end at the front porch, and I want to make a better world for them. But I also knew that I was a better member of Congress because I had a family, and that in some ways, each gave richness and dimension to the other. We figured out how to make it work as a family. I mean, both my children have been to a White House Christmas ball and the State of the Union, but we always had a rule that you can call no matter what. And I remember there were some times that it confounded people and, like, there was one time when President Bush — W. Bush, 43 — was coming to New Mexico for the first time, and he was going to do some events in Albuquerque. And they called and they said, “Well, if the congresswoman wants to fly in with him from Texas, you know, she can get off the airplane in her district with the president. And the answer was, “That's the first day of school, and I always take my kids to school the first day, so I'll just meet him here.” And the staff was stunned by that, like, she turns down a ride on Air Force One to arrive in her district with the president of the United States to take her kids to school. Yes, George Bush understood it completely. And likewise, when the vice president came, and it was, you know, that the one thing leading up to another tough election — I never had an easy election — and the one thing I said to my staff all the way through October, leading — “There's one night I need off, and that's Halloween, because we're going trick or treating.” And wouldn't you know the vice president is flying into New Mexico on Halloween for some event in New Mexico, and we told them, “I will meet them at the stairs when they arrive in Albuquerque. I'll have my family with them, but I won't be going to the event because we're going trick or treating.” And in my house, I have this great picture of the vice president of the United States and his wife and my kids in costume meeting. So most senior people understood that my family was important to me and everybody's family, you know — most people work to put food on the table, and if, as a leader, you recognize that and you give them grace when they need it, you will also have wonderful people who will work for you sometimes when the pay is better somewhere else because you respect that their families matter to them and making room for that love is important. Naviere Walkewicz 24:36 May I ask a follow on to that? Because I think that what you said was really important. You had a leader that understood. What about some of our listeners that maybe have leaders that don't value the same things or family in the way that is important. How do they navigate that? Dr. Heather Wilson 24:52 Sometimes you look towards the next assignment, or you find a place where your values are the same. And if we have leaders out there who are not being cognizant of the importance of family — I mean, we may recruit airmen but we retain families, and if we are not paying attention to that, then we will lose exceptional people. So that means that sometimes, you know, I give a lot of flexibility to people who are very high performers and work with me. And I also know that if I call them at 10 o'clock at night, they're going to answer the phone, and that's OK. I understand what it's like to — I remember, you know, I was in New Mexico, I was a member of Congress, somebody was calling about an issue in the budget, and my daughter, who was probably 4 at the time, had an ear infection, and it was just miserable. And so I'm trying to get soup into her, and this guy is calling me, and she's got — and it was one of the few times I said — and it was the chairman of a committee — I said, “Can I just call you back? I've got a kid with an ear infection…” And he had five kids. He said, “Oh, absolutely, you call me back.” So you just be honest with people about the importance of family. Why are we in the service? We're here to protect our families and everybody else's family. And that's OK.   Naviere Walkewicz 26:23 Yes, thank you for sharing that. Anything to add to that, JD? No? OK. Well, Dr. Wilson, I'd like to go into the book where you talk about your chapter on collecting tools, which is a wonderful chapter, and you talk about Malcolm Baldridge. I had to look him up — I'll be honest — to understand, as a businessman, his career and his legacy. But maybe share in particular why he has helped you. Or maybe you've leveraged his process in the way that you kind of think through and systematically approach things. Dr. Heather Wilson 26:49 Yeah, there was a movement in the, it would have been in the early ’90s, on the Malcolm Baldrige Quality Awards. It came out of the Department of Commerce, but then it spread to many of the states and it was one of the better models I thought for how to run organizations strategically. And I learned about it when I was a small businessperson in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And I thought it was interesting. But the thing that I liked about it was it scaled. It was a little bit like broccoli, you know, it looks the same at the little flora as it does at the whole head, right? And so it kind of became a model for how I could use those tools about being data driven, strategically focused, process oriented that I could use in reforming a large and not very well functioning child welfare department when I became a cabinet secretary for children, youth and families, which was not on my how-to-run-my-career card. That was not in the plan, but again, it was a set of tools that I’d learned in one place that I brought with me and thought might work in another. Naviere Walkewicz 28:02 Excellent. And do you follow a similar approach, JD, in how you approach a big problem? Gen. Dave Goldfein 28:07 I think we're all lifelong students of different models and different frameworks that work. And there's not a one-size-fits-all for every organization. And the best leaders, I think, are able to tailor their approach based on what the mission — who the people are, what they're trying to accomplish. I had a chance to be a an aide de camp to a three-star, Mike Ryan, early in my career, and he went on to be chief of staff of the Air Force. And one of the frameworks that he taught me was he said, “If you really want to get anything done,” he said, “you’ve got to do three things.” He said, “First of all, you got to put a single person in charge.” He said, “Committees and groups solve very little. Someone's got to drive to work feeling like they've got the authority, the responsibility, the resources and everything they need to accomplish what it is that you want to accomplish. So get a single person in charge. Most important decision you will make as a leader, put the right person in charge. Second, that person owes you a plan in English. Not 15 PowerPoint slides, right, but something that clearly articulates in one to two pages, max, exactly what we're trying to accomplish. And the third is, you’ve got to have a way to follow up.” He said, “Because life gets in the way of any perfect plan. And what will happen is,” he goes, “I will tell you how many times,” he said, “that I would circle back with my team, you know, a couple months later and say, ‘How's it going?’ And they would all look at each other and say, “Well, I thought you were in charge,” right? And then after that, once they figure out who was in charge, they said, “Well, we were working this plan, but we got, you know, we had to go left versus right, because we had this crisis, this alligator started circling the canoe, and therefore we had to, you know, take care of that,” right? He says, “As a leader, those are the three elements of any success. Put someone in charge. Build a plan that's understandable and readable, and always follow up. And I've used that as a framework, you know, throughout different organizations, even all the way as chief to find — to make sure that we had the right things. Dr. Heather Wilson 30:21 Even this morning, somebody came by who reminded us of a story that probably should have been in the book, where we had — it was a cyber vulnerability that was related to a particular piece of software widely deployed, and the CIO was having trouble getting the MAJCOMMS to kind of take it seriously. And they were saying, “Well, you know, we think maybe in 30, 60, 90 days, six months, we'll have it all done,” or whatever. So I said, “OK, let all the four-stars know. I want to be updated every 36 hours on how many of them, they still have, still have not updated.” I mean, this is a major cyber vulnerability that we knew was — could be exploited and wasn't some little thing. It was amazing; it got done faster. Naviere Walkewicz 31:11 No 90 days later. Oh, my goodness. Well, that was excellent and actually, I saw that in action in the story, in the book, after the attack on the Pentagon, and when you stood up and took charge, kind of the relief efforts, because many people were coming in that wanted to help, and they just needed someone to lead how that could happen. So you were putting into practice. Yes, sir. I'd like to get into where you talk about living your purpose, and that's a chapter in there. But you know, Gen. Goldfein, we have to get into this. You left the Academy as a cadet, and I think that's something that not many people are familiar with. You ride across the country on a bike with a guitar on your back for part of the time — and you sent it to Dawn after a little while — Mini-Bear in your shirt, to find your purpose. Was there a moment during the six months that you that hit you like lightning and you knew that this was your purpose, or was it a gradual meeting of those different Americans you kind of came across? Gen. Dave Goldfein 32:04 Definitely gradual. You know, it was something that just built up over time. I used to joke — we both knew Chairman John McCain and always had great respect for him. And I remember one time in his office, I said, “Chairman, I got to share with you that I lived in constant fear during every hearing that you were going to hold up a piece of paper on camera and say, ‘General, I got your transcript from the Air Force Academy. You got to be kidding me, right?’ And he laughed, and he said, Trust me, if you looked at my transcript in Annapolis,” he goes, “I'm the last guy that would have ever asked that question.” But you know, the we made a mutual decision here, sometimes just things all come together. I'd written a paper on finding my purpose about the same time that there was a professor from Annapolis that was visiting and talking about a sabbatical program that Annapolis had started. And so they started talking about it, and then this paper made it and I got called in. They said, “Hey, we're thinking about starting this program, you know, called Stop Out, designed to stop people from getting out. We read your paper. What would you do if you could take a year off?” And I said, “Wow, you know, if I could do it, I'll tell you. I would start by going to Philmont Scout Ranch, you know, and be a backcountry Ranger,” because my passion was for the outdoors, and do that. “And then I would go join my musical hero, Harry Chapin.” Oh, by the way, he came to the United States Air Force Academy in the early ’60s. Right? Left here, built a band and wrote the hit song Taxi. “So I would go join him as a roadie and just sort of see whether music and the outdoors, which my passions are, what, you know, what it's all about for me.” Well, we lost contact with the Chapin connection. So I ended up on this bicycle riding around the country. And so many families took me in, and so many towns that I rode into, you know, I found that if I just went to the library and said, “Hey, tell me a little bit about the history of this town,” the librarian would call, like, the last, you know, three or four of the seniors the town, they'd all rush over to tell me the story of, you know, this particular little town, right? And then someone would also say, “Hey, where are you staying tonight?” “I'm staying in my tent.” They said, “Oh, come stay with me.” So gradually, over time, I got to know America, and came to the conclusion when I had to make the decision to come back or not, that this country is really worth defending, that these people are hard-working, you know, that want to make the world better for their kids and their grandkids, and they deserve a United States Air Force, the best air force on the planet, to defend them. So, you know, when I came back my last two years, and I always love sharing this with cadets, because some of them are fighting it, some of them have embraced it. And all I tell them is, “Hey, I've done both. And all I can tell you is, the sooner you embrace it and find your purpose, this place is a lot more fun.” Naviere Walkewicz 35:13 Truth in that, yes, yes, well. And, Dr. Wilson, how did you know you were living your purpose? Dr. Heather Wilson 35:19 Well, I've had a lot of different chapters to my life. Yes, and we can intellectualize it on why we, you know, why I made a certain decision at a certain time, but there were doors that opened that I never even knew were there. But at each time and at each junction, there was a moment where somehow I just knew. And at South Dakota Mines is a good example. You know, I lost a race to the United States Senate. I actually had some interns — I benefited from a lousy job market, and I had fantastic interns, and we were helping them through the loss. You know, they're young. They were passionate. They, as Churchill said, “The blessing and the curse of representative government is one in the same. The people get what they choose.” And so I was helping them through that, and one of them said, “Well, Dr. Wilson, you're really great with students. You should be a college president somewhere. Texas Tech needs a president. You should apply there,” because that's where this kid was going to school. And I said, “Well, but I don't think they're looking for me.” But it did cause me to start thinking about it and I had come close. I had been asked about a college presidency once before, and I started looking at it and talking to headhunters and so forth. And initially, South Dakota Mines didn't seem like a great fit, because I'm a Bachelor of Science degree here, but my Ph.D. is in a nonscientific discipline, and it's all engineers and scientists. But as I went through the process, it just felt more and more right. And on the day of the final interviews, that evening, it was snowing in South Dakota, there was a concert in the old gym. I mean, this is an engineering school, and they had a faculty member there who had been there for 40 years, who taught choral music, and the students stood up, and they started singing their warm up, which starts out with just one voice, and eventually gets to a 16-part harmony and it's in Latin, and it's music is a gift from God, and they go through it once, and then this 40th anniversary concert, about 50 people from the audience stand up and start singing. It's like a flash mob, almost These were all alumni who came back. Forty years of alumni to be there for that concert for him. And they all went up on stage and sang together in this just stunning, beautiful concert by a bunch of engineers. And I thought, “There's something special going on here that's worth being part of,” and there are times when you just know. And the same with becoming cabinet secretary for children, youth and families — that was not in the plan and there's just a moment where I knew that was what I should do now. How I should use my gifts now? And you hope that you're right in making those decisions.   Naviere Walkewicz 38:43 Well, probably aligning with JD’s point in the book of following your gut. Some of that's probably attached to you finding your purpose. Excellent. I'd like to visit the time Dr. Wilson, when you were helping President Bush with the State of the Union address, and in particular, you had grueling days, a lot of hours prepping, and when it was time for it to be delivered, you weren't there. You went home to your apartment in the dark. You were listening on the radio, and there was a moment when the Congress applauded and you felt proud, but something that you said really stuck with me. And he said, I really enjoy being the low-key staff member who gets stuff done. Can you talk more about that? Because I think sometimes we don't, you know, the unsung heroes are sometimes the ones that are really getting so many things done, but nobody knows. Dr. Heather Wilson 39:31 So, I’m something of an introvert and I've acquired extrovert characteristics in order to survive professionally. But when it comes to where I get my batteries recharged, I'm quite an introvert, and I really loved — and the same in international negotiations, being often the liaison, the back channel, and I did that in the conventional forces in Europe negotiations for the American ambassador. And in some ways, I think it might have been — in the case of the conventional forces in Europe negotiations, I was on the American delegation here. I was in Vienna. I ended up there because, for a bunch of weird reasons, then they asked me if I would go there for three months TDY. It's like, “Oh, three months TDY in Vienna, Austria. Sign me up.” But I became a very junior member on the delegation, but I was the office of the secretary of defense's representative, and walked into this palace where they were negotiating between what was then the 16 NATO nations and the seven Warsaw Pact countries. And the American ambassador turned to me, and he said during this several times, “I want you to sit behind me and to my right, and several times I'm going to turn and talk to you, and I just want you to lean in and answer.” I mean, he wasn't asking anything substantive, and I just, “Yes, sir.” But what he was doing was credentialing me in front of the other countries around that table. Now, I was very young, there were only two women in the room. The other one was from Iceland, and what he was doing was putting me in a position to be able to negotiate the back channel with several of our allies and with — this was six months or so now, maybe a year before the fall of the Berlin Wall. So things were changing in Eastern Europe, and so I really have always enjoyed just that quietly getting things done, building consensus, finding the common ground, figuring out a problem. Actually have several coffee mugs that just say GSD, and the other side does say, Get Stuff Done. And I like that, and I like people who do that. And I think those quiet — we probably don't say thank you enough to the quiet, hardworking people that just figure out how to get stuff done. Naviere Walkewicz 41:59 Well, I like how he credentialed you and actually brought that kind of credibility in that way as a leader. JD, how have you done that as a leader? Champion, some of those quiet, behind the scenes, unsung heroes. Gen. Dave Goldfein 42:11 I'm not sure where the quote comes from, but it's something to the effect of, “It's amazing what you can get done if you don't care who gets the credit.” There's so much truth to that. You know, in the in the sharing of success, right? As servant leaders, one of the things that I think both of us spend a lot of time on is to make sure that credit is shared with all the folks who, behind the scenes, you know, are doing the hard, hard work to make things happen, and very often, you know, we're the recipients of the thank yous, right? And the gratefulness of an organization or for somebody who's benefited from our work, but when you're at the very senior leaders, you know what you do is you lay out the vision, you create the environment to achieve that vision. But the hard, hard work is done by so many others around you. Today, in the audience when we were there at Polaris Hall, was Col. Dave Herndon. So Col. Dave Herndon, when he was Maj. Dave Herndon, was my aide de camp, and I can tell you that there are so many successes that his fingers are on that he got zero credit for, because he was quietly behind the scenes, making things happen, and that's just the nature of servant leadership, is making sure that when things go well, you share it, and when things go badly, you own it. Naviere Walkewicz 43:47 And you do share a really remarkable story in there about accountability. And so we won't spend so much time talking about that, but I do want to go to the point where you talk about listening, and you say, listening is not passive; it's active and transformative. As servant leaders, have you ever uncovered challenges that your team has experienced that you didn't have the ability to fix and you know, what action did you take in those instances? Dr. Heather Wilson 44:09 You mean this morning? All the time. And sometimes — and then people will give you grace, if you're honest about that. You don't make wild promises about what you can do, but then you sit and listen and work through and see all right, what is within the realm of the possible here. What can we get done? Or who can we bring to the table to help with a set of problems? But, there's no… You don't get a — when I was president of South Dakota Mines, one of the people who worked with me, actually gave me, from the toy store, a magic wand. But it doesn't work. But I keep it in my office, in case, you know… So there's no magic wands, but being out there listening to understand, not just listening to refute, right? And then seeing whether there are things that can be done, even if there's some things you just don't have the answers for, right? Gen. Dave Goldfein 45:11 The other thing I would offer is that as senior leadership and as a senior leadership team, you rarely actually completely solve anything. What you do is improve things and move the ball. You take the hand you're dealt, right, and you find creative solutions. You create the environment, lay out the vision and then make sure you follow up, move the ball, and if you get at the end of your tenure, it's time for you to move on, and you've got the ball moved 20, 30, yards down the field. That's actually not bad, because most of the things we were taking on together, right, were big, hard challenges that we needed to move the ball on, right? I If you said, “Hey, did you completely revitalize the squadrons across the United States Air Force?” I will tell you, absolutely not. Did we get the ball about 20, 30 yards down the field? And I hope so. I think we did. Did we take the overhaul that we did of officer development to be able to ensure that we were producing the senior leaders that the nation needs, not just the United States Air Force needs? I will tell you that we didn't solve it completely, but we moved the ball down the field, and we did it in a way that was able to stick. You know, very often you plant seeds as a leader, and you never know whether those seeds are going to, you know, these seeds are ideas, right? And you never know whether the seeds are going to hit fertile soil or rocks. And I would often tell, you know, young leaders too. I said, you know, in your last few months that you're privileged to be in the position of leadership, you’ve got two bottles on your hip. You're walking around with — one of them's got fertilizer and one of them's got Roundup. And your job in that final few months is to take a look at the seeds that you planted and truly determine whether they hit fertile soil and they've grown roots, and if they've grown roots, you pull out the fertilizer, and the fertilizer you're putting on it is to make it part of the institution not associated with you, right? You want somebody some years from now say, “Hey, how do we ever do that whole squadron thing?” The right answer is, “I have no idea, but look at how much better we are.” That's the right answer, right? That's the fertilizer you put on it. But it's just equally important to take a look at the ideas that, just for whatever reason, sometimes beyond your control — they just didn't stick right. Get out the Roundup. Because what you don't want to do is to pass on to your successor something that didn't work for you, because it probably ain't going to work for her. Dr. Heather Wilson 47:46 That's right, which is one of the rules of leadership is take the garbage out with you when you go. Naviere Walkewicz 47:51 I like that. I like that a lot. Well, we are — just a little bit of time left. I want to end this kind of together on a story that you shared in the book about laughter being one of the tools you share. And after we share this together, I would like to ask you, I know we talked about mirror checks, but what are some things that you guys are doing every day to be better as well, to continue learning. But to get to the laughter piece, you mentioned that laughter is an underappreciated tool and for leaders, something that you both share. I want to talk about the time when you got together for dinner before you began working as chief and service secretary, and I think you may have sung an AF pro song. We're not going to ask you to sing that today, unless you'd like to JD? But let's talk about laughter.   Gen. Dave Goldfein 48:31 The dean would throw me out. Naviere Walkewicz 48:33 OK, OK, we won't have you sing that today. But how have you found laughter — when you talk about — when the questions and the problems come up to you?   Dr. Heather Wilson 48:40 So I'm going to start this because I think Dave Goldfein has mastered this leadership skill of how to use humor, and self-deprecating humor, better than almost any leader I've ever met. And it's disarming, which is a great technique, because he's actually wicked smart. But it's also people walk in the room knowing if you're going to a town hall meeting or you're going to be around the table, at least sometime in that meeting, we're going to laugh. And it creates a warmth and people drop their guard a little bit. You get to the business a little bit earlier. You get beyond the standard PowerPoint slides, and people just get down to work. And it just — people relax. And I think Dave is very, very good at it. Now, my husband would tell you that I was raised in the home for the humor impaired, and I have been in therapy with him for almost 35 years.   Naviere Walkewicz 49:37 So have you improved? Dr. Heather Wilson 49:39 He thinks I've made some progress.   Naviere Walkewicz 49:41 You’ve moved the ball.   Dr. Heather Wilson 49:44 Yes. Made some progress. I still don't — I used to start out with saying the punch line and then explain why it was funny. Naviere Walkewicz 49:52 I’m in your camp a little bit. I try. My husband says, “Leave the humor to me.” Dr. Heather Wilson 49:54 Yeah, exactly. You understand. Gen. Dave Goldfein 49:58 I used to joke that I am a member of the Class of 1981[’82 and ’83]. I am the John Belushi of the United States Air Force Academy, a patron saint of late bloomers. But you know, honestly, Heather doesn't give herself enough credit for building an environment where, you know, folks can actually do their very best work. That's one of the things that we do, right? Because we have — the tools that we have available to be able to get things done very often, are the people that are we're privileged to lead and making sure that they are part of an organization where they feel valued, where we're squinting with our ears. We're actually listening to them. Where they're making a contribution, right? Where they believe that what they're being able to do as part of the institution or the organization is so much more than they could ever do on their own. That's what leadership is all about. Dr. Heather Wilson 51:05 You know, we try to — I think both of us see the humor in everyday life, and when people know that I have a desk plate that I got in South Dakota, and it doesn't say “President.” It doesn't say “Dr. Wilson.” It says, “You're kidding me, right?” Because once a week, more frequently as secretary and chief, but certainly frequently as a college president, somebody is going to walk in and say, “Chief, there's something you need to know.” And if they know they're going to get blasted out of the water or yelled at, people are going to be less likely to come in and tell you, right, what you need to know. But if you're at least willing to laugh at the absurdity of the — somebody thought that was a good idea, you know. My gosh, let's call the lawyers or whatever. But you know, you’ve just got to laugh, and if you laugh, people will know that you just put things in perspective and then deal with the problem. Naviere Walkewicz  52:06 Well, it connects us as humans. Yeah. Well, during my conversation today with Dr. Heather Wilson and Gen. Dave Goldfein — JD — two lessons really stood out to me. Leadership is not about avoiding the fall, but about how high you bounce back and how your recovery can inspire those you lead. It's also about service, showing up, doing the hard work and putting others before yourself with humility, integrity and working together. Dr. Wilson, Gen. Goldfein, thank you for showing us how courage, compassion and connection — they're not soft skills. They're actually the edge of hard leadership. And when you do that and you lead with service, you get back up after every fall. You encourage others to follow and do the same. Thank you for joining us for this powerful conversation. You can find Get Back Up: Lessons in Servant Leadership, wherever books are sold. And learn more at getbackupeadership.com [https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fleadership.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cbryan.grossman%40usafa.org%7C50b776c0c9df456a847508de52037677%7Ce6421ec329ed4f09a13a96e310c5ba80%7C0%7C0%7C639038372444905691%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wI1DMNsL7n1wKteKMZNxiV1j%2Bj9lgd7pJZbsaWjtePw%3D&reserved=0]. If today's episode inspired you, please share it with someone who can really benefit in their own leadership journey. As always, keep learning. Keep getting back up. Keep trying. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of ’99. This has been Focus On Leadership. Until next time. Producer This edition of Focus on Leadership, the accelerated leadership series, was recorded on Monday, Oct. 6, 2025.   KEYWORDS Leadership, servant leadership, resilience, humility, integrity, influence, teamwork, family, trust, listening, learning, purpose, growth, accountability, service, courage, compassion, balance, values, inspiration.     The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation

Lead with Grit - Congressman August Pfluger ’00

Leadership demands grit, clarity and conviction. SUMMARY On Long Blue Leadership, Congressman August Pfluger ’00 reflects on these qualities through his experiences at the U.S. Air Force Academy, in the cockpit and as part of the U.S. House of Representatives. His story challenges every leader to ask where courage is calling them to go next. SHARE THIS PODCAST LINKEDIN  [https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/lead-with-grit-congressman-august-pfluger-00/?token=b754c4c19bba341cde4caa774f3ab46b] |  FACEBOOK  [https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/lead-with-grit-congressman-august-pfluger-00/?token=b754c4c19bba341cde4caa774f3ab46b]   CONGRESSMAN PFLUGER'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS 1. Courageous career leaps require conviction, timing and faith. Pfluger left active duty at 19 years and four months — a highly unconventional choice — demonstrating that major pivots sometimes require stepping into uncertainty. 2. Work ethic is a lifelong differentiator. He emphasizes that he has never been “the best,” but has always been willing to outwork anyone. Hard work + grit consistently opened doors. 3. Failure and setbacks shape long-term success. Missed opportunities at USAFA and earlier career disappointments taught him timing, resilience and long-term perspective. 4. Leadership is transferable across domains. His fighter pilot and command experience directly enabled his political success — planning, debrief culture and thick skin all mapped over perfectly. 5. Credibility requires deep study and prioritization. You cannot master everything; leaders must choose focus areas and know them cold so others trust their expertise. 6. Humility, credibility and approachability are foundational leadership traits. These principles translate powerfully to Congress and team leadership. 7. Family and faith must anchor leadership. His family’s summer crisis reframed his priorities: “None of this matters if you don’t take care of your family.” 8. The nation needs more military and Academy graduates in public leadership. He stresses that only four USAFA grads have ever served in Congress — and more are needed to restore civility and mission-focused service. 9. The U.S. Air Force and U.S. Space Force are under-resourced relative to global threats. Pfluger advocates vigorously for rebalancing defense spending to meet modern challenges. 10. Self-reflection is critical to growth. Leaders must ask: How do I see myself? How do others see me? If those don’t align, adjust the work ethic, mindset or behaviors accordingly.   CHAPTERS 00:00 — Introduction & Biography 01:44 — Opening Remarks 01:47 — Leaving Active Duty at 19 Years and 4 Months 04:06 — Why Run for Office? 05:40 — Family, Faith & Influences 07:14 — Representing His Hometown District 08:29 — Learning to Represent a District 11:07 — Work Ethic and USAFA Foundations 12:22 — Failure, Setbacks & Long-Term Rewards 15:10 — Unexpected Assignments Becoming Career High Points 17:24 — Pentagon, Fellowship & NSC 19:49 — USAFA Grads in Congress 21:03 — Role of the Board of Visitors 23:24 — Key Focus Areas for the Board of Visitors 25:11 — Top National Security Challenges 27:13 — Balancing Congress, Leadership, and Family 29:01 — Leadership Style & Decision-Making 30:40 — Humble, Credible, Approachable 33:38 — Building Credibility as a Younger Leader 34:43 — What’s Next: A More United Country 37:29 — Daily Habits for Growth 39:37 — Advice for Emerging Leaders 41:24 — Final Reflections & Call to Action 43:45 — Closing Thoughts & Outro   ABOUT CONGRESSMAN PFLUGER BIO U.S. Rep. August Pfluger ’00 is serving his third term in the U.S. House of Representatives. He represents 20 counties in Texas’ 11th Congressional District. After graduating from the U.S Air Force Academy, he served in the Air Force and Air Force Reserve for 25 years as an F-22 and F-15 pilot with over 300 combat hours. In Congress, he is chairman of the Republican Study Committee, the largest caucus on Capitol Hill. He is a member of the House Energy and Commerce Committee and chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence. CONNECT WITH THE CONGRESSMAN LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/in/august-pfluger-23240577/] HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES [https://pfluger.house.gov/contact/]   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org [Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org] Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org [socialmedia@usafa.org]   <---> Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org [Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org]  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org [Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org] Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org [Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org]      ALL PAST LBL EPISODES [https://www.longblueleadership.org/]  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS [https://www.podbean.com/podcast-network/longbluelinepodcast] AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS Guest, Rep. August Pfluger ’00  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99   Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, the podcast where we share insights on leadership through the lives and experiences of Air Force Academy graduates. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of ’99. In this edition of Long Blue Leadership, we're honored to welcome a distinguished leader whose career spans military service, national security and public office, Congressman August Pfluger is a proud graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, Class of 2000, and currently represents the 11th Congressional District of Texas in the U.S. House of Representatives. Before entering Congress, Congressman Pfluger served for nearly two decades in the United States Air Force, rising to the rank of colonel. He is currently a member of the Air Force Reserve as an F-15 and F-22 fighter pilot. He logged over 300 combat hours in defense of our nation. He has also served as a member of the National Security Council, bringing strategic insight to some of the most complex global threats we face today. Since taking office in 2021 Congressman Pfluger has remained deeply committed to strengthening our national defense. He currently serves on the House Energy and Commerce Committee and the House Homeland Security Committee to critical platforms from which he continues to represent and lead. He is the chairman of the Republican Study Committee and serves as the chairman of the Air Force Academy's Board of Visitors, appointed to the BOV by the speaker of the house in 2023 and elected by his colleagues to serve as chair. Whether in the halls of Congress or in the cockpit, Congressman Pfluger's career has been defined by a steadfast commitment to courageous service and leadership. Congressman Pfluger, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. Rep. August Pfluger 1:44 Thank you, Naviere. It's honor to be here with you.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:47 Well, we are so glad to have you. And there's something that I want to jump right into, because it really occurred to me how odd this is, but you served for nearly two decades, and when I say nearly two decades in the Air Force, 19 years and four months, and then you pulled the plug, you didn't go to retirement right then. Can we talk about that a little bit? Rep. August Pfluger 2:09 Well, this is not something that most financial advisers would advise you of doing. And I'll tell you, this was a journey in faith, because at almost 20 years. September of 2019, we made a decision, my wife and I made a decision to run for Congress, which meant that we got out of the active duty, joined the Reserve, and started a campaign, something that just a month prior, we had absolutely no intention of doing, and had not even talked about doing. Running for office was something that was always of interest, but certainly not at 19 years and four months. So the opportunity came up, had a couple of phone calls from friends and family to say that the representative who represented my hometown and where I grew up was retiring after 16 years, and a lot of factors. And I'll really take you down this faith journey, a lot of factors happened that we couldn't ignore. And we literally moved back to my hometown of San Angelo that I had not lived in for over 20 years, and started a campaign, which, as you can imagine, was, I mean, it took a lot of courage for my wife, from my family, three little girls, who we uprooted and went through this. But I'm so glad that we did it. But it wasn't without, you know, I can say anxiety and just, you know, the fear, the unknown maybe, and not knowing exactly what would happen. So when you say and use the words, we burned the ships. That was the moment in time that we literally burned the ships and ran a campaign with every piece of our heart and soul. Naviere Walkewicz 3:48 Wow. Well, let's talk about that a little bit, because, you know, we have listeners that make these pivotal moments in their careers. They make these decisions that really shaped them. What was it about that time, other than the incumbent was going to retire. Like, why you? Why then, you know? Let's talk about that a little bit more. Rep. August Pfluger 4:06 Well, this is pre-Covid. And the thought of running for office always sounds good. You know, if you have that interest, you're like, “OK, that'd be great.” Well, then when you kind of get down to the brass tax that you're going to have to put in 14- to 16-hour days and learn how to talk to people about what's important in this district that then it kind of changes things. But honestly, there were signs and things that pointed me and my wife in this direction that we couldn't ignore. And when you look at this type of district, I mean, it's really, in the past 100 years, there's only been about six representatives. So it's not one of those things you say, “Well, maybe we'll wait for next time.” The opportunity was there, there was a window of time. It was about 30 days where we had to make a decision to literally move from northern Virginia back to Texas and start a whole new career. And ended doing so forego the pension for what would now be five or six years, because I've had to work as a reservist to, you know, kind of get back to that point. So there was a financial piece to it. There was a career that was, was going very well that, you know, maybe, are we giving that up? And what happens if we don't win? And then, you know, all these unknowns. So I will say it was, it was definitely the biggest professional decision that I've ever made in my career. Naviere Walkewicz 5:40 So you talked about some of your family members — you had phone calls. It sounds like, your faith and your family are a big part of your decision making. And, when you go forward with things, I think you've talked about your grandfather having been someone that inspired you to go into the Air Force. You know, who are those key players in your family that have really inspired you in your big leadership decisions. Rep. August Pfluger 6:02 Yes, you're right. I had two grandfathers that served in World War II. One was a pilot, and that that led me to make the first decision to go to the Air Force Academy. And that stayed with me. We had nobody in my family who was in politics. I mean, not a single person. In fact, a lot of my family, I had several great uncles and different family members that I'm close to, and they said, “What?” Like, ”What are — you sure you want to do this? And why? Don't you have a really good Air Force career and you've been able to, you know, rise in the ranks and all the things that you've tried to do?” But I honestly — it was kind of a word of wisdom to say, “If you're going to do this, have some good reasons.” Like, “Why do you want to do this?” And the district that I get to represent in my hometown, we have military bases, agriculture and energy, and I love all three of those things. And I think of those as national security-level entities that really dovetail very nicely with my first part of my professional career. Naviere Walkewicz 7:14 That makes sense. So it really was an extension — this new path in your journey was really an extension of what you had done in uniform and active duty and now being able to give it back to your hometown district and the patrons in there as well. Rep. August Pfluger 7:30 Absolutely. And in the campaign I talked about how important it was to be able to provide our own food. We have a lot of cattle ranchers there that are in my district, that you don't want to be dependent on some other country, especially an adversarial country, for your food needs. And the same thing for energy production: that you can't be dependent for energy needs on your adversaries. So those were things that I was able to really talk about, and I mean, oh my gosh, after I actually was elected and got into office, I mean, they became front and center and still are of that discussion. And I think that was the really interesting piece about having been deployed. We were stationed all over the world, almost seven years outside of the United States, on three different continents, and to be able to tie it together and kind of bring that back home and communicate why this place where I grew up and now where I live and where I represent is so important to our national security? Naviere Walkewicz 8:29 Well, you talked a little bit about earlier, about you weren't sure if you were going to get elected, and then when you did, you had to go out and talk to people and really understand the challenges. What is that journey like when it's completely new, right? It's not the same. It's you're not getting into a cockpit. You're not an instructor pilot now. Now you are — you're representing all of them. How do you how do you approach that new path? Because I think that's something when our leaders take this leap of faith and they're looking at, well, how do I approach it? It's completely different from anything I've done. I think they'd like to know how you did it so well. Rep. August Pfluger 8:59 Well, thanks for the question. It was a huge challenge in being a squadron commander, having been an instructor pilot or a mission commander, and having led in actual combat, that that was everything. I mean, I didn't know anything about politics, but what I did know was how to map out a plan and how to put the pieces and parts together. And I knew that nobody was going to outwork me. I mean, come on, you know, when you have a SAMI on Saturday morning, you got to wake up and make your bed and do all the things to get that weekend pass. I mean, you're going to work hard. And so I knew that I had a competitive advantage on the work ethic and the ability to plan and so really, the thing that I realize now, now six years later, is that I think people — what they really appreciated was that I wasn't a career politician, that the things that I was saying and campaigning on were like true passions, and they weren't empty promises. I told them this is what I'm going to do, and I'm proud to report I've done every single one of those things that I told them that I would do, and it's because we were instructed so well, both at school and then as members of the active-duty Air Force about how to follow through and be persistent and just carry through with what you said you're going to do. I mean, integrity is a big piece of this, but I will tell you also that now staying in touch after being elected, elected, I travel throughout these 20 counties all the time, and you have to have some thick skin, because you're going to get some feedback from people that is not always flattering, and they're going to ask you, “Well, why did you vote this way, or what happened here, and why are you not doing this? And this is expensive.” And, I mean, so you have to be willing to take that feedback, which, by the way, sitting in a fighter pilot debrief — I mean, that was the perfect training for having thick skin, to understand that what people are trying to tell you: Is it critical? Without substance? That you really need to listen to them and try to solve these problems? Naviere Walkewicz 11:07 So earlier, you had talked about, I think there are these things that you did at the Academy. No one is going to outwork you have. You always been that type of person, someone that, you know, just kind of works really hard. Or is that something that you kind of developed at the Academy. Rep. August Pfluger 11:21 I developed it at the Academy. But I would say I came in with a with a good work ethic and then was challenged by our classmates, who are amazing, you know? It's like, “Oh my gosh, I'm really not that smart and not that fast and not that… you know, whatever,” because you see all these amazing people. But yes, work ethic was, I mean, I look at it now, having administered how many nominations to service academies? I mean, dozens and dozens of kids that I've gotten a chance to work with over the past five years who are absolutely incredible. I'm like, I don't know if I could get in at this point in time, because they're just incredible. And I had to work very hard at everything I ever did, everything I ever achieved, was because of hard work. It wasn't because I was the best. It was because I just, at the end of the day, worked very hard to get it. I think that's something that's a lesson that we learned during four years at the Academy, but it served me very well in this profession. Naviere Walkewicz 12:22 Was there a particular time at the Academy where you worked really hard and it didn't go your way? And, you know, how did you overcome that? Because I think sometimes the outcome is, “If I if I give it all and I work really hard, I'm going to get to where I want to go.” And if that wasn't the case, how did that actually change the trajectory or shape you? Rep. August Pfluger 12:42 There were multiple times at the Academy that you work hard for something. I mean, I came in as a recruited athlete, had some injuries, and so didn't get a chance to finish all four years that that was hard to go through that process, and it just didn't work out. And or you're just not good enough. And then that was the case too for me, on the football team. But they're just better people, which is awesome and that, but that shaped who I am now, because it is not just about how hard you work. That's a huge piece of it. But you also have to have good timing. You have to have some luck. You have to be in the right place and have been brought up by the right people. And when the when the opportunity strikes you, you've got to be able to take advantage of that timing to do that. And that those lessons — I absolutely remember that there was one instance where I really, really wanted to go to do this exchange program in Egypt, and they were going to bring some of the political science department over there. Well, apparently my grades were not in the right area to be selected for this program. I think I was an alternate or something, unless that's good, that's — it's not nothing. But I was very disappointed, because I thought I worked hard, you know, maybe not hard enough on the grades, but had worked hard to be a part of the conversation, to go. Well, didn't get a chance to do it. So always had that in the back of my mind. Well, I went to Egypt, but it was as a congressman. I led a congressional delegation of six or seven members. We met with the president of Egypt and had very serious conversations about the negotiation for what Gaza has now with the peace deal that we have gotten to and had a, you know, went to the president's palace, got to sit down right next to him and talk to him for over an hour. So I always kept that in the back of my mind that I was going to Egypt one day. Naviere Walkewicz 14:37 That's right. And honestly, you worked really, really hard. You didn't get there, but it kept you — kept that fire going, because you knew at some point you're going to, so it did end up working out, in that case, for sure. You know, one of the things that I find really interesting and fascinating about you is, as you talk about these different experiences you've had, you said they've shaped you. And when you're in the military, can you share a time when you maybe we're in a position that it wasn't what you'd hoped for. You thought it was going to be, but you found it to be incredibly rewarding. Was there anything in that kind of space that happened to you? Rep. August Pfluger 15:10 Yes, several times. You know you want things, you think you want things, and then it doesn't work out. You don't get selected. And always in the back of my mind, every young lieutenant wants to be a weapons officer wants to then be a squadron commander of a fighter squadron, and that's just the competitive side of this. And I was no different when it came time to select who the next squadron commanders were going to be. I'll never forget: My operations group commander came to be and he said, “Well, we got a problem. We have six really talented lieutenant colonels. You're all promoted below the zone, and we have four squadrons, so we're going to have to figure out a Plan B for a couple of you, and I've got something in mind for you.” He said, “I think that you should go be a deployed squadron, commander of an OSS, an operational support squadron.” He said, “We've got a war going on, a conflict with ISIS, and you'd be great.” Well, that's not exactly an easy conversation to go home and to tell your spouse: “Oh, I just got told that I was going to deploy. I'm not going to be a fighter squadron commander here. I'm going to go somewhere else, and I'll be gone a year.” So that was hard, but oh my goodness, what an experience professionally. Obviously, I missed my family, but this was the height of the conflict against ISIS. I had hundreds of people that I got a chance to work with, command, flying combat missions, doing something that mattered, working with our international partners. You know, we were on an Emirati base, and so I worked with the Emiratis on a daily basis, because we had almost 20 different weapon systems, 20 different aircraft there and it was the highlight of my professional career. So God had a plan. It worked out much better than I could have ever engineered, and it turned out — minus the fact that I had to be gone for a year; obviously, nobody likes that — but it turned out to be the best professional year of my Air Force career. Naviere Walkewicz 17:13 I find that really interesting because that — so would that have been the last kind of position you held before going into the move for Congress? Is that correct? Rep. August Pfluger 17:24 You know, actually, I came back — was PCSed to the Pentagon, worked for the chief of staff of the Air Force, General Goldfein, OK, went to a year of War College equivalent in D.C., a fellowship program, and then was assigned to the White House, to the National Security Council, for just about two and a half months before we made — three months before we made the decision to run for Congress. Naviere Walkewicz 17:49 So just a couple things happened after that. [Laughs]. What an amazing run, and the amazing leaders that you got to work with. So was that experience that when you were deployed as a squadron commander and then coming back, did that help shape your thoughts specifically to the Congress role, because you talked about the very three important things, right? Energy, you know, national security and there was one more… and agriculture. Thank you. And so, you know, did that all kind of get settled in when you were in that transition piece from, you know, squadron commander, to your time at the Pentagon in the White House area. Rep. August Pfluger 18:26 Absolutely, I had a year as a deployed squadron commander, came back and worked a year at the Pentagon, which I didn't know how lucky that was. Most people get there two or three years, but work directly for the chief of staff. Heard all of the conversations between Gen. Goldfein and Secretary Heather Wilson and then had a year where I studied at a think tank on Middle East policy. It could not have been a better education with a little bit of time in the White House to prepare me to run for Congress. You look back on that, you go, “Oh, so that's why.” “Oh, these steps were to prepare for this job now,” which I mean, just the fact that, as a member of Congress, I've probably met with 10 or 15 heads of states, one on one, presidents from different countries around the world, and to have that education, to be able to speak intelligently, at least somewhat intelligently, on these issues. Took that the steps that I just went through right there. Naviere Walkewicz 19:31 And you know, something that I think is really interesting to what you just said, working with Gen. Goldfein and with Secretary Wilson, you know, there are so few Academy graduates that have had the opportunities to serve in Congress and to be in the role that you are. How many Academy, Air Force Academy grads we have now have that have done this? Rep. August Pfluger 19:49 There's two currently serving, myself and Don Davis, opposite sides of the aisle, but great friends, and there were only two prior, so there's only been four. And the first two were Heather Wilson was the first Martha McSally, I'll never forget when I got elected. Heather Wilson called me and she said, “Congratulations, you're finally keeping up with us ladies.” And I thought it was great. But you know, we need more graduates, honestly. And I don't care who's listening to this, what side of the aisle you're on, we need more air force academy graduates. There are nine West Pointers currently serving, and seven from Annapolis currently serving, and we've only had four total. Naviere Walkewicz 20:30 All right, it's out there now. We've got our, you know, got our calling. So here we go. You know, I want to ask you a question about, you know, being in Congress, you are on several committees, and you're in leading roles in them. Let's talk a little bit. First about, if you don't mind, I'd like to talk about the Board of Visitors, because I think it's a great opportunity for our graduates to understand actually what the Board of Visitors actually does. So if you don't mind, kind of sharing in your words, you know what your priorities are with the Board of Visitors and what that looks like. I think it'd be really helpful in educating our listeners. Rep. August Pfluger 21:03 Well. Thank you. It's an honor to be on the Board of Visitors. It's statutorily set up by Congress decades ago, and it basically provides an avenue of oversight, something that is appointed both legislatively, by the speaker of the house and by the Senate majority leader and also the president. And, you know, we've got a number of several grads, but a number of senators and congressmen. And, you know, again, one of these timing things that I didn't necessarily intend to run for the chairmanship, but we needed, I think, a graduate to do that, and am proud to be the chairman of this group. You know, Charlie Kirk was on this board, and what a tragic situation that was. We've got a number of really passionate leaders, and our job really is to interact with the institution, to ask questions and to report back directly to the Secretary of War and into the Secretary of the Air Force on the health and welfare of the institution, on any other issues that we think are important. And for me, kind of the driving principle is that I love this institution, the leadership lessons that I learned there and those that I hear from so many graduates are important well beyond military service. They're important for the rest of a graduate’s life. And I want to make sure that everything that is going on there, the resources that are needed there, the schedule and the curriculum and the ability to train the next generation of young warriors, both for the space and the Air Force, are the best in the country, and that we are prepared no matter what, that those graduates can go do their job. So it really is an honor to be on the board, but then to be the chairman of it. Naviere Walkewicz 23:03 I can imagine that, and I think it really speaks volumes, the fact that, you know, you're so passionate about it, you've taken what you've had from the Academy, you've applied it in this role. What are the first things that I think you're looking at? You said you talked about the resources and kind of the schedule and things that are happening at the academy. What are the key things that you're looking at right now as a Board of Visitors? Rep. August Pfluger 23:24 Well, I think to start with, I mean, we all know you wake up early, you go bed late, and you're trying to cram, you know, 28 hours into 24 and so the No. 1 thing that I want to see and work through is, how are we continuing to innovate with the best training possible, so that, you know, you can't teach the solution to every problem, but you want to teach a framework of how to think, and that, you know, there's going to be cadets that are challenged through their academic studies, there's going to be cadets that are challenged through their military studies. There's going to be cadets that are challenged athletically, and some that get all three of those, obviously, we all get got all three. But no matter which piece of the puzzle fills, you know, their time, they should get the training that teaches them how to respond in stressful situations, that teaches them how to function as a team, and that that offers them the opportunity to honestly, to experience a little bit of failure, while also knowing that success is right down the road, and that with a little grit, a little determination and a little persistence, that they're going to get there, and that is a challenge, I mean, In a resource-confined environment that we have right now that that's a big challenge, but that's why we have legislators, Senators and House members, They can go fight for those resources to make sure that they're getting that training that they need. Naviere Walkewicz 24:56 Thank you for sharing that you know, I think when you talk about having that framework to critically work through whatever is coming at you, and, you know, fighting for resources. Can you share what is the greatest challenge that you're faced with right now and how you're working through it? Rep. August Pfluger 25:11 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just, you know, from a military standpoint, I'm obviously very biased on what air power and space power does I mean the army will deploy to certain locations. In the Navy will deploy to certain locations. But the Air Force and the Space Force are everywhere. We're in every theater. We've been in every conflict. We are the constant and I don't think resource wise, that that our Department of the Air Force is receiving the resources that it needs proportionately speaking to the threat that we face. We're the smallest and the oldest that we've ever been, and we need to change that immediately. As chairman — you mentioned I was chairman of the Republican Study Committee. What is that? Well, it's a 189-member caucus, committee, policy committee...   Naviere Walkewicz 26:01 It's the largest one, right?   Rep. August Pfluger 26:02 It's huge. It's the largest committee in Congress, and we meet weekly with Cabinet members and other leaders to discuss policy. But this has been something that I've been passionate about, which we have to take advantage of an environment where some more resources are being put towards our military, and I want to make sure that a larger portion of those go to the Department of the Air Force to meet the threat. And that's just a neat opportunity that it's a competitive election. I had to get elected by my peers. You know, 188 other congressmen and women from across the country. I had to run an election to get elected to it, and now trying to communicate to them why the business of Air and Space power is so important, but, but I'm we're slowly but surely getting there. Naviere Walkewicz 26:53 Well, I'm not sure where you have time when you're you know, you're doing so many things, you're on the road, meeting with your constituents. You're leading. You know these major committees, the Board of Visitors, as chair. Can you talk about how you're balancing? You know, you always talked about being your family is really important to you. How are you balancing that? What does that look like for someone in a leadership role? Rep. August Pfluger 27:13 Well, it's obviously the biggest challenge that any of us face, which is making sure that you take care of the most fundamental and important piece of your life, which is your family and being gone. I mean, I go to Washington, D.C., on Monday, and generally come home Thursday or Friday, and that's about three weeks out of every four. So my wife, is the most important piece of this, because she allows me to do this, and I couldn't do it without her, honestly. And then secondly, you know, we had a scare this summer because two of my girls were at Camp Mystic. And you know, that was that really brought things back to such a fundamental level that, you know, my No. 1 job on this earth is to be a husband and a father, a person of faith. And I'll tell you that that was, that was a transformational moment in it, just in my in my life, because when you have two daughters that were that thankfully came home and in then you see 27 others that didn't, that they knew that we knew the families and we were close to that. This has put everything back into perspective, that the service that I'm doing should be focused on a foundation of family and faith, and that none of it matters if you don't take care of that. Naviere Walkewicz 28:41 So what does that look like in how you lead? How does that shape the decisions you make in your role in Congress, as a reservist? And then for our listeners, you know, how do they put those important things first in the midst of having to make other decisions professionally? Rep. August Pfluger 29:01 I think a lot of it is, maybe not so much, the “what” in the decision, but it's the “how,” you know, you carry yourself, and you know on the other side of the aisle. I mean, I'm going to fight policies that I don't agree with all day long. But I think the how I do that, what I want my daughters to know is that they had a dad that was very firm in his beliefs. So I think that's, you know, when I look at it kind of like from the, “OK, what's important?” OK, being a good dad, not just saying the right things, but actually going and carrying those out. I think the how you carry them out is really important. And then, you know the specifics of legislation. There are things that, if I believe in in taking care of the American family, then there are things that I'm going to advocate for, not, not to make this to political of a discussion, but I think you can see through my track record that that I have focused on those things that would help strengthen the family, Naviere Walkewicz 30:08 The “how” is really, it's part of your legacy, right? And I think that's what your children are seeing as well, in the way that you, you, you do what you do. And I think as leaders, that's something really important to be thinking about. So I'm really thankful that you shared that example. Shared that example. Have you found that your leadership style has evolved, or has it already always been kind of rooted in you know, who you've been and you've just kind of tweaked it a little bit? Or have you seen yourself evolve more than you would have expected? Rep. August Pfluger 30:40 Yes, it has evolved, but, and I hope for the better, we'd have to ask others what they think of that, but, but, you know, look, growing up in a professionally in a fighter squadron, there were three tenants that they even though I didn't go to weapon school, they teach you this to be humble, credible and approachable. I mean, think about that. Those are the core tenants of who our lead warriors are, and that is not what you see. When you think of politicians. You think, Well, they're braggadocious and annoying. And you know, OK, and I hope I don't fall into that category. I need to do some self-reflection every once while, but, but I've got a staff of almost 40 people, and I have 434 other colleagues that you have to work with. So you better believe that you've got to be humble because there are people who are better than you in every category. You better believe that being approachable in this job is really important, because people are going to come to you and they're going to need something, or you're going to need something from them, and if you don't have the credibility of what you're talking about or what you're leading, then you're not going to get anything done. And so I've really had to work on all three of those things since I was elected to make sure that tying that to a servant leadership model. We started out in 2021, and I told my team, I said, we are going to do everything we possibly can to make other people that I am working with, other congressmen and women better. And they said, Wait, what? I said, Yeah, this isn't about me getting the limelight. We will get plenty of limelight, but let's work on giving other people the credit, giving other people the opportunities, calling on their expertise, pushing them up. And it will all work out, and we will achieve everything we wanted to achieve for the district that I represent, and it was just like this lightning bolt of it was so antithetical to the way that many people in Congress think. And I am not saying that we have changed the world, but when you're elected to basically a conference-wide position like I am, then you really have hard conversations with people, and those conversations people said, You know what, you've helped me out. I'm going to vote for you. And that meant everything, Naviere Walkewicz 33:08 Humble, approachable, credible, what great lessons for our leaders. And I think that translates across anything you're doing. Of the three, it seems that credible would probably be the hardest to achieve, right? It's a time-based thing. How would you recommend that our leaders, especially those that are growing in their leadership roles, achieve that when they don't necessarily have the time right in? Rep. August Pfluger 33:38 It's so hard, but that grit, that determination, I mean, the study, the thing, all the things we learned, you know, it's like they give you. The academic instructors are like a torture chamber, because they know you can't study everything, so you have to prioritize, which is a lesson I think I still draw on today. But I think that credibility comes from if you're going to be an expert in something, you've got to study it. You've got to know it, and people have to trust you. So when you tell them something, it has to be the truth, and they have to know well, I don't know that particular policy issue, but I know Pfluger does, because, you know he did that in his career. He studied that. So I think that grit and that determination and the prioritization of your time is so important, you can't do it all. I mean, we just can't. You have to. You have to make a choice, and those choices have to then go towards the goals that you're setting for yourself. Naviere Walkewicz 34:32 Excellent, excellent lessons. So you've accomplished so much since 2021, you know? What's next? What are you trying to work towards next? Rep. August Pfluger 34:43 I mean, there's so many different like policy issues I'm not going to bore you with. Let's just talk about the big picture, the elephant in the room, which is how divided our country is, and it's heartbreaking to see. You know, I think back to like, the aftermath of 911 I literally 911 happened two weeks prior to my pilot training graduation. You as a Class of ’99 were right in the same boat. I mean, we were our professional careers were turned upside down, but our country came together, and that that was kind of the I think that that was the best thing to see how many people that were divided on whatever lines kind of came together. We're very divided, and it is hard to see and from I want to see an end of the radical sides of our parties and a normal conversation. We should be able to have a normal debate in Congress about whatever issues of spending and things like that. And we should be able to then slap each other on the back and say, Yeah, good job you won that one. Or, you know, good job I won this one. That should be kind of the norm. And I've got so many good friends who are Democrats that it's there, but the pull to radicalization is it's alive and well. And to be honest, this is why we need more Academy graduates who are doing this type of work, whether it's running for local office or running for Congress or Senate or whatever, because we get it. We get it from being a part of something that was greater than ourselves and being a part of a mission that it wasn't about, I it was literally about the team of success. And I think it's, it's veterans that are in these leadership positions that are going to help be a part of this, so that that really, I really do want to see that that doesn't mean that I'm not going to fight tooth and nail for policy that I believe in, which is partisan at times. And I'm OK with that, but what I'm not OK with is demonizing somebody for having a different belief. Let's go fight the merits of it, but not, not the character of the other person. Naviere Walkewicz 37:03 Thank you for sharing that. I think, you know, just putting the elephant on the table, I think, is really important. That's what it is about conversation. It's about dialog and so thank you for sharing that. For sure, this has been an incredible conversation. We've kind of navigated different parts of your career, you know, your leadership journey, maybe, if I could ask you this, what is something you're doing every day, Congressman Pfluger, to be better? Rep. August Pfluger 37:29 I think, in faith life, really trying to tie in spiritually, and to not be the one in control, trying to be more present in in my family's life, I'm going to give you three or four. So, you know, just being more intentional, putting the phone down, like if I'm going to sit down with my kids and be there, because I could be on the phone 24 hours a day. So put the phone down, talk to my wife be engaged, and that that's really that, that, I think that's a challenge for anybody who is in any adult right now, quite frankly, but especially those that are in leadership positions, which all of our graduates are, and so just put the phone down and being engaged, and it's hard. It's like, “Oh, I got to take care of this, you know, I got to call that person back. We've got to do this.” But you know that is, I think that that is probably the No. 1 thing that then allows a stronger faith life, a stronger relationship with my family. Physically, still taking the Air Force PT test, got a 99 last year. Was very proud of that and so trying to stay physically fit.   Naviere Walkewicz 38:48 That’s outstanding!   Rep. August Pfluger 38:49 There are some other graduates who have challenged me with that. You may know Joel Neeb? A classmate of yours.   Naviere Walkewicz 38:58 Oh yeah! I know Thor.   Rep. August Pfluger 39:00 Thor is awesome. And he's been such an inspiration. I could name 100 people, but he said he's a really good inspiration to so many people. And on all the things that you just the things that I answered for your question, he's been a good inspiration on. Naviere Walkewicz 39:15 I would agree with that wholeheartedly. Yes. Well, thank you for that. Can you also share, you know, knowing what you know now through the years that you've experienced, you know your hardships, the triumphs — what would you share with our growing leaders that they can do today to help them be stronger down the road? Rep. August Pfluger 39:37 You know, I think some self-reflection, like, how do you see yourself, and how does the world see you? And is this — does it match up? Because if it's different, if your opinion of yourself is higher than that of what other people are thinking and your work ethic and what you're bringing to the to the table, then then you need to do some self-reflection. And I again, I got back to my career as a fighter pilot, which was perfect for politics. You know, you got to learn to work as a team. You have people debriefing you, and there's critical thoughts on your actions, of how you perform. But I think any leader, it needs to first have the grit to be able to stick with it. It's not always the best person that gets the job, but I can promise you, the person who keeps seeking that job and has that drive, they're going to get there. That has been the story of my life and self-reflection, to go What's stopping me from getting there is probably the key, as long as you have that grit, that self-reflection, to have some clarity for whatever goal you want to achieve. That's my humble opinion of what I would tell myself 15 years ago. Naviere Walkewicz 41:00 Wow. And I think that does kind of give us a moment to just sit in it and think about that as we are, you know, trying to be our best selves and to continue to evolve as leaders. What a great way to do that, right? Just reflect some self-reflection. I want to make sure we have an opportunity. If there's anything that I didn't ask you, that you feel is really important to share with our listeners. What would that be? Rep. August Pfluger 41:24 Well, there were a couple of things. No. 1, I was trying to think back — because your Class of ’99 and I'm Class of 2000 — on whether or not I had to get in the front-leaning rest and recite John Stuart Mill's poem, or not. I can't remember that, so maybe I snuck by.   Naviere Walkewicz 41:45 Definitely a front-leaning rest kind of gal. I have pretty strong abs. I can handle that.   Rep. August Pfluger 41:51 You know, I just, I want to go back to what how important our institution is, because we're in that other dimension. We're in the air, in the space domain. We're solving problems in our professional career that I mean, think about where we've come since the Wright Brothers demonstrated we could fly and now, you know all the things that we're doing in air and space, and that's because of our graduates. And you know, I just, I really want to have a call out to our graduates that your leadership in a variety of ways is needed. It's needed in the business community, in Fortune 500 companies. It's needed in your local communities. It's needed at the national level of politics; there are several candidates for Congress right now who are graduates. I'm helping them, and I will help anybody. I don't care what party you are, of course, I have my favorite, but I will help any person who is looking to run for something like this. This is what I know now. But we really do need your leadership in order to bring the temperature down, to unite our country, to make sure that we're going to be successful. It's not if it's a matter of when we're going to face that next big, truly existential threat and challenge to our country. And guess what? I trust the people that were right there next to be in the front, winning rest, reciting all of those quotes and having to do a little bit harder of a standard in our four years of education than other institutions. And so I trust our graduates, but we need you, and we really need you to take that opportunity and serve in any possible way that you can. Naviere Walkewicz 43:45 Wow. Thank you for sharing that. I think that that is a perfect way a call to action, so to speak, for all of us you know the service after the service, so this has been incredible. Congressman Pfluger, thank you for your time today. Rep. August Pfluger 43:57 Well, Naviere, thank you for reaching so many graduates and looking forward to a Bitton Army and Navy again next year. Naviere Walkewicz 44:04 That's right next year. Well, you know, as I reflect on this conversation, you know, one theme really rises above others, courage, the grit, you know, not just the courage we often associate with the battlefield or moments of crises, but the quiet, steady courage that it takes to lead with conviction every day, Congressman Pfluger reminded us that true leadership means standing firm in your values even when the path may be uncertain or the stakes may be high, it's the kind of courage that doesn't seek comfort, but instead answers to responsibility. So as you think about your own leadership journey, ask yourself, Where is courage calling you? Where is that grit gonna take you? Whether it's in the workplace, in your community or your personal life, lean into those moments, because courage, real, principled, humble, courage is what transforms good leaders into great ones. Thank you for listening to this edition of Long Blue Leadership. If you know someone who needs encouraging words in their leadership journey, please share this podcast with them as well. I'm Naviere Walkewicz. Until next time.   KEYWORDS August Pfluger, Long Blue Leadership Podcast, U.S. Air Force Academy, leadership lessons, congressional service, fighter pilot, national security, grit and resilience, service after service, Air Force Board of Visitors, faith and family leadership, career transition, public service, humble credible approachable, air and space power.       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation

The Lesson I Didn't Expect - Rebecca Gray ’94

When Rebecca Gray ’94 arrived at her first duty station, she thought she was ready to lead — until a senior master sergeant told her to get a coffee cup and led her away from the safety of her desk. “You’ve got to know who people are, so that you know how to relate to them,” he told her. That simple moment became the foundation of her entire leadership journey.    SHARE THIS PODCAST LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/the-lesson-i-didnt-expect-rebecca-gray-94/?token=d778e71a291619d8902eb8856723f335]  |  FACEBOOK  [https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/the-lesson-i-didnt-expect-rebecca-gray-94/?token=d778e71a291619d8902eb8856723f335]   REBECCA'S TOP 5 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS 1. Lead With Authentic Connection Genuinely care about your team members as people, not just colleagues — know their stories, show real interest in their lives and let authenticity drive your leadership style. This builds trust and drives engagement. 2.Adapt and Balance Across Life’s Seasons Recognize that leadership and career paths aren’t always linear. It’s important to intentionally adapt your role and focus to meet the current stage of your life, whether that means prioritizing family, professional growth or personal health. 3. Translate Core Values Across Environments Military leadership lessons — like accountability, communication and team cohesion — are just as powerful in civilian life. Carry these values into new environments and roles, and tailor them to fit each unique context. 4. Empower Others Through Example Be a “working leader” by setting the pace and modeling the behaviors you want to see. Encourage your team’s growth by giving responsibility, asking for input and trusting them to rise to new challenges — even if it means letting them make mistakes. 5. Continuous Self-Development Fuels Leadership Commit to lifelong learning and personal development through regular habits — like reading, exercise and reflection. Maintaining intellectual curiosity and a growth mindset not only strengthens your leadership but also inspires others to do the same.   CHAPTERS 0:00:04 – Introduction to the Podcast and Guest Rebecca Gray 0:00:29 – The Coffee Cup Lesson: Early Leadership and the Influence of Senior Master Sergeant Kennedy 0:01:48 – Authentic Connection: Lessons Carried From the Military to Corporate Leadership 0:03:32 – The Power of Authenticity and Understanding Team Members’ Lives 0:04:49 – Translating Military Leadership Lessons to the Corporate World 0:07:58 – Creating Team Connection in Remote and Fast-Paced Environments 0:11:47 – Memorable Military Leadership Influences 0:13:24 – Balancing Military Service, Family and Career Transitions 0:16:53 – Career as Seasons: Crafting Balance and Intentionality 0:19:19 – Navigating Critical Career Junctures and Embracing Change 0:22:18 – Building Confidence and Trusting Yourself 0:23:46 – Fostering Confidence and a ‘Go Mentality’ on the Team 0:25:39 – Leading and Aligning Family and Professional Goals 0:27:28 – Practicing Continuous Learning and Personal Development 0:28:32 – Advice to Emerging Leaders: Value Well-Roundedness and Humility 0:29:43 – Reflections on Alumni, Family Connection, and Leadership Beyond the Academy 0:30:15 – Closing Thoughts on Leadership, Service and Authentic Paths ABOUT REBECCA BIO Rebecca Gray ‘94, Boingo Wireless senior vice president and general manager, leads a division providing soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines connectivity wherever they go. Alongside her military service, she’s held leadership roles at Fortune 200 companies in energy, media and telecommunications — including Southern Company and Comcast NBCUniversal — and has volunteered with multiple nonprofits. Her focus is on innovation that strengthens communities and keeps people connected. A three-time All-American springboard diver, Gray started her Air Force journey as a recruited athlete at the U.S. Air Force Academy. After graduation, she trained as a World Class Athlete and competed for Team USA at the 1995 World Games in Rome. She’s served in key leadership roles across the Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve, including deputy wing commander at the 111th Attack Wing in the Pennsylvania ANG, as well as director of staff for the Georgia ANG. She’s also a graduate of the Secretary of Defense Fortune 500 Corporate Fellowship Program and earned her doctorate after studying around the globe in Israel, England, India and China. She and her husband Christopher, a Class of 1993 Air Force Academy Grad, married at the Cadet Chapel in 1994. They have three daughters: Jasmine, a junior at Bates College; Grace, a sophomore at Centenary University; and Kennedy, a freshman at NJIT. Their Yorkie, Cookie, has become a seasoned traveler, having visited all but two states in the continental U.S.   CONNECT WITH REBECCA LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-currie-gray/] BOINGO WIRELESS [https://www.boingo.com/corporate/management-team/]   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org [Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org] Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org [socialmedia@usafa.org]   <---> Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org [Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org]  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org [Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org] Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org [Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org]      ALL PAST LBL EPISODES [https://www.longblueleadership.org/]  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS [https://www.podbean.com/podcast-network/longbluelinepodcast] AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS Guest, Rebecca Gray ’94  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99   Naviere Walkewicz  00:04 Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, where we explore the lessons of leadership through the lives and stories of Air Force Academy graduates. I'm your host, Naviere Walkewicz, Class of ’99. When Rebecca Gray walked into her first duty station after graduating from the Academy, she thought she was ready to lead. But it wasn't a general, a colonel or a policy manual that changed her view of leadership. It was a senior master sergeant named Patrick J. Kennedy and a coffee cup.   Rebecca Gray  00:29 He said, “You're doing this all wrong. You need to be out, out, out.” He told me, “Go grab a coffee cup.” I didn't drink coffee at the time, so he goes, “Go get some water. Stop being difficult.” And he walked me around and said, “This is this is what matters. You’ve got to know who people are, so that you know how to relate to them.” That really shaped me.   Naviere Walkewicz  00:50 That simple moment became the foundation for how Rebecca has led her teams ever since. From the Air Force to corporate boardrooms, from public service to private equity, Rebecca Gray, USAFA, Class of ’94, has led across nearly every domain — active duty, Reserve and Guard — and built a remarkable second career spanning nonprofit work, education and now executive leadership. Her path has been shaped by transformational moments, moments that taught her how to connect, to trust herself and to lead with conviction. Rebecca, welcome to Long Blue Leadership.   Rebecca Gray  01:23 Thank you so much for having me. It's just a privilege to be here. Thank you for what you're doing for the grads, for the parents, for alumni, all of that. It's really impressive.   Naviere Walkewicz  01:31 Oh gosh. Really appreciate that. And I think, you know, that clip was so wonderful to hear. And I think we should just jump right in to that moment in time, kind of winding back the clock when you were just really transformed in your leadership style by your senior enlisted leader. Can we talk about that?   Rebecca Gray  01:48 I was just, had just graduated, and, as you said, my first duty assignment, and the only officer in the shop. And so senior master sergeant, which is one rank below chief — so the top, one of the top senior enlisted advisers in my shop, and we went for a walk and he really just taught me how to connect with the troops, to connect with people, walk around, get to really know them. And I'll have to tell you the first time I did it, I did a pass through, I went through the motions, if you will. And, you know, I came back, I was like, “Oh, OK, I did it. I did it. I'm all… I'm good, and have done my leadership duty for the day.” And he asked me, he said, “Who got a new car?” And I mentioned the airman's name of who got a new car. He goes, “What color was the car and what was the type of car?” And I was like, “Oh, OK.” And he goes, “So you didn't really care.” And I thought that's true, that's actually accurate. I needed to really care about what his first car was, and was it a truck? Was it a sedan? What was it? And so that really shaped me into really caring in a way that's already in your heart. But how do you express that in a leadership capacity? And so that changed the course of my 30-plus years in the military and then in corporate.   Naviere Walkewicz  03:07 What a powerful story. I mean, we can actually visualize you walking around. And as you know, graduates, we are kind of like, you know, task-minded. We're going to get this done. And you did it. You check the box. But to go down that next level, how do you see that actually becoming actionable across, you know, all leadership levels, you know, where you're actually walking the walk with your troops, so to speak. Can you talk about that a little bit more?   Rebecca Gray  03:32 Well, I think you have to be authentic, and be your authentic, you know, be authentic in your heart and what you're really doing. And if you don't have that, then people can feel it. People can tell if they don't feel your connection or your care concern for them. I think that really just mirrored an opportunity for me to put the two together. To your point, we're very task-minded, results-driven. When you graduate, very results-driven. It still impacts me every day, to be results, but you were doing it alongside of other people who have lives and who have things going on in their personal and professional lives, and we bring that to the table too, and really connecting with that and how to motivate people, how to encourage, how to walk with people and help them get to the results that they need to do, you know, as part of your team.   Naviere Walkewicz  04:29 Maybe, can you share an example of how you're using this? You said this has impacted you over the past 30 years. You know, it seems very clear — we're in an in middle military setting, and you're, you know, amongst your troops, you're leading beside them, you're understanding. How does that translate now and where you're at in the corporate world, at your level of leadership. What does this look like?   Rebecca Gray  04:49 I think that's a really good question, because when you look at it, you can see it very easily in the military. It plugs and plays very easily. Once you understand and you put it all together and you can develop it. You get a opportunities to develop that every day, if you will, every day you get that opportunity. But I think when you translate it into civilian life — and we all end up having a civilian life after the military — whether it's, you know a first-term enlistment, whether it's your first duty assignment, you fulfill your active-duty commitment from the Academy, whatever those years are. Whether you, you know, finish your 20 or what have you, you do transition out of military life at some point in time.   Naviere Walkewicz  05:37 Let’s talk about what you’re doing right now. I think it’s important for our listeners to understand what that looks like and, you know, how you’re leading in that space.      Rebecca Gray  05:44 Oh my gosh. I am so excited about what I do. It’s the best job I’ve ever had. It’s a great company that I work for. I work for Boingo Wireless. And what I do — my job at the company is to do anything that relates to the military. So we provide connectivity to over 100 bases around the world. I've got an incredible team that many of them have served, either as a veteran retiree or still serving. You have to understand what they know. What is their background? Where have they been? Where have they served, so to speak? What companies have they worked in? What role, leadership roles? What technology have they been around? What schools have they been to? All those things, and then also some of their things that are going on in their personal life so that you understand what's bringing them to work every day to support their personal and professional goals. And so you have to translate that, take that military experience and put that into the civilian workforce. And I think it's very powerful. It's so natural. I really actually don't think about it as much because you've developed it so such a tried and true part of who your character becomes, that coming back into civilian life and transitioning back into it, it's a great opportunity to bring all of those skill sets and move right into that — in leading teams, in learning that new chain of command, if you will, in corporate. And so that's a really powerful thing, and it feels like it's an enjoyable part of my day is the people I get to work with, the quality of people I get to work with. If I don't have that connection, I feel like I'm missing something at the end of the day.   Naviere Walkewicz  07:36 Can you share an example in which to that level that, you know, that the senior master sergeant said, “Did you know what type of car it was?” Where you've actually got to that level with someone, maybe in your civilian career, and how that has… Have you seen that actually make an impact on either performance or the results, or really just their own worth?   Rebecca Gray  07:58 Well, I think that's an interesting question. I think that can be played in two different areas. If you're in the office, there's an ability to be connected just by having lunch together, by having coffee, you know, you're in and you're around and about, and physically, there's just a different kind of energy when you're around people. So my team, we get together at some regular intervals that we set as a team for the year. We do one big, we call it an all-hands, an annual meeting, we’re going to Vegas this year, and we're going in February. And so we're bringing the entire team; everybody's coming out of the field, everybody's coming from around the world, and they're all coming. We're meeting in Vegas, and we're going to spend a couple days together talking about what we accomplished last year, what we're going to do in the future, and then we also do some learnings, and, you know, things like that, some technology growth opportunities and things like that. So that's one thing that shows that you use… You're going to spend some budget dollars to really ensure that people know how you feel and how you value them as being part of this team, and making sure… I spend every other week planning this for a year and we do that every other week, and we talk about the hotel, we talk about the food, we, you know — our team-building exercises, the agenda, the T-shirts, the design of those, every detail, because I want my team to walk away at the end of that — we'll probably have over 100 people in the room — and I want everyone to walk out of that knowing that they are a valuable member of the team. So that's one thing we do, you know, on my team. And then on Monday mornings, we have a staff meeting every Monday morning, a team meeting, and the first question of the day is, “What did you do for the weekend?” And that's where we learn about all kinds of, you know, really fun things about people and what they're doing, what they're doing with their family, or who they're, you know, trying to date, or, you know, buying a new house, or, you know, all kinds of things that you learn. And then also you develop that within the team, because other people hear that question, and otherwise it's very transactional. This is what you do. This is what you can do for me. And in this fast-paced technology world, taking that time at the beginning of the meeting to say, “Let's take a pause, and I want to hear about you.” And so to me, that's another small thing, but a very powerful thing. In a fast-paced technology space, I think it's even more critical to take a pause, to take a stop and take a breath and realize the people that we're working with are… It's a gift to have this opportunity to work with one another, and I want them to feel a part of the team, even though we're in a remote setting, because most of my team is in the field. And so in that remote setting, that is even more critical, I think. So I think there's both, you know… When you're in the office, there's one way to do things, and then when you're in this more remote setting that we are — and then we're in a fast-paced technology setting. It's moving all the time, and sometimes you get into more activity and results and results and activity, and you accomplish one thing, and you're on to the next and, and that's… I don't know if that wheel spinning so fast is always, you know, healthy.   Naviere Walkewicz  11:15 Well, I really appreciate how you actually gave very specific examples of this leadership in action, because you're right: In this pace and in this remote kind of setting that many of us operate in, being able to still find that human touch and that connection to what you were speaking about that went all the way back to, you know, the senior master sergeant. But I'm sure you also had leaders throughout your military career that also exemplified some of this. Can you share any other moments while you're in uniform, where you saw some of these leadership traits that you really wanted to embody and that you've carried through your career to date?   Rebecca Gray  11:47 Gen. Hosmer was the, I think he was the calm when I was at the Academy, and he would walk around with his A-jacket. So you didn't really know if he was a cadet or not, because once you put your hat on, you can't tell. But, and you know, “Oh my gosh, it was a general just walked past me.” But he knew people's names. He remembered my name, and he remembered it for four years, and it was just a powerful moment that I remembered on my graduation, when we walked through the line with your parents, and you're doing that reception, and he said, “Rebecca, congratulations. Well done, and you did great.” And all those kinds of you know things. And I'll never forget that walk, whether he was walking on the Terrazzo and called my name, whether he remembered it going through a line of 1,000 people with all their parents, and you know, all of that. And I think that's always stuck with me, that level of remembering somebody's name, remembering who they are, that really was powerful to me early on in my military career.   Naviere Walkewicz  12:48 Oh, thank you for sharing that, because those are the moments that so many people can connect with that really do imprint on them and how they are as leaders, you know, and I'm curious, because…   Rebecca Gray  12:57 That's a good word, “imprint.” That's a really good word, “imprint.”   Naviere Walkewicz  13:03 Yeah, it feels that way. Thank you. Thank you. You know, I would love to dive into your Air Force career and the decision to transition out, because I just imagine in the way that you have done so many incredible things that your time in the military was very successful. Can you talk about what that was and then the decision to transition, why that came about and why you made it?   Rebecca Gray  13:24 That's a very powerful decision. It's a big decision to come into the military, and it's a big decision when it's time to leave. And those are hard decisions. And sometimes you leave too early, sometimes you stay in too long. You know, different things like that. But for me, it was my husband was a ’93 grad. So I'm ’94 he was ’93 we got married at the Cadet Chapel right after I graduated in September. I share that because my husband and I were dual spouse, joint spouse. We were just talking about it the other day, because we just celebrated — it was our 31st wedding anniversary — and we looked at it and we said, “Gosh, you know, what a ride we've had.” And we got to know each other. We were in the same cadet squadron. We were both in 29 for three years and sophomore through senior year. And we both looked at each other. We were going to get separated. I was going to do a remote to Korea. He was going to Malstrom in Montana, and my follow on was Vegas, at Nellis. And so we realized we were going to be as separated for a few years, and that was a really big decision for us, because we loved the military, we loved our lifestyle, we loved our friends, we loved the camaraderie and all the things that you love, and we realized, where does that fit with our marriage and how do we pull this off? And so I think along the way, we've really tried to drive a commitment to service. We both went off active duty. We decided to go into the Reserve together, and then I eventually went into the Guard. So I ended up serving active duty, Guard and Reserve, which was really wasn't done back in the day.   Naviere Walkewicz  15:04 No, I was going to say…   Rebecca Gray  15:07 No, that was not done. I mean, you stay active duty for 20 years. You stay Reserve. You might do active duty and then Reserve, but to finish up and get to your 20… But I had three little children, and so I was able to do the Reserve. And so I think what's great about the military is, if you are open to looking at your career and seeing it as a different stages and phases of your life and letting it shape and form around that too, there are ways to serve. That was the way I felt called to serve. I think other people, active duty is the way to go, or Reserve or Guard is the way to go, you know, straight through. But for me, it gave me the flexibility, and I found that it was a lot of fun to do it that way. I got to learn different things in each of the different statuses, if you will. And I was able to put a whole career together with three little kids, and, you know, 31 years of marriage.   Naviere Walkewicz  16:04 Well, I think as a leader, those decision points — and it sounds like you were really well grounded in, you know, what do we want to commit to. Commitment to service, a commitment to each other. But I think what is so special about your career, when you look at it in seasons or in stages, is you've had some incredible opportunities to still continue to thrive professionally, even as those stages change. And if you wouldn't mind sharing some of that, because I think there's times when listeners feel like, “If my trajectory is not vertical, like in one path that you know, that everyone kind of recognizes as the path, then it's not successful.” But to your point, if you look at it in stages, and what is this stage, how do I evolve in this stage? In this stage? And maybe it's not always directly vertical, but we're still moving in it at an angle. I think it's powerful for our listeners to hear, if you don't mind sharing what that's been like.   Rebecca Gray  16:53 I made a very intentional decision to serve as a squadron commander in a certain season. So I wanted to build a life that had different components to it, and to do that, that meant you have to be intentional about that if you want to stay on one path. And I think as this world gets more complex, the technology is moving very fast. You want to stay balanced. I think the only way you can stay balanced in life is to really have different components of your life. There's a time to be a squadron commander, there's a time to be a senior leader. There's a time to be an individual contributor and there's a time to say this is, you know, for whatever myriad of reasons, health or family dynamics, or you're going through a degree program. And so you have to kind of make those things to ebb and flow appropriately. And I wanted to put those building blocks and pieces together to make something really interesting and a reason to wake up in the morning and something that got me out of bed. I do Squadron Officer School. I do, you know, ACSC, and then War College. And so you can end up checking these boxes and checking, you know, different assignments and different levels. Just like you graduate from college, you got to meet certain, you know, credit requirements and different kinds of classes and things like that. So I'm not saying it's a negative, but it shouldn't be a mindset. It should be just the way you need to get certain things done.   Naviere Walkewicz  18:17 And by the way, Sgt. Kennedy would come back and be like, “This is not enough, ma'am.” So, but you know what I really loved about what you just described? This might be the first time I've heard the description of balance, because you did it in a way that — you talked about balance being almost having holistic, a holistic view of various pillars. And there's times when you know you're bringing one of the forefront, so you're not ever saying they're in balance, where they're all, you know, equitable or like, everything is just, you know, the scale is exactly the same on both sides. But what you're saying is, there's time when you're bringing stuff to the forefront, but I'm really aware of the all of those pieces, and I think that is such a wonderful way to look at balance. Which brings me to this question of, you know, you have approached your career and, you know, being a mother and a wife was such, you know, a unique view. When did you know it was time to add onto your plate in this nonprofit space? And then you go, you know, going… So it just seems like you've made these decisions at critical points. How do you measure when that next point is supposed to come around and you take that leap?   Rebecca Gray  19:19 Sometimes, life gives you that opportunity to take a step back and say, “OK, I'm now at a critical juncture. What do I want to do?” That can be your, you know, your health, or a family dynamic, or you get accepted into a program and you want to do this. When I got accepted into that secretary of defense corporate fellowship program that's basically Air War College in residence. You can imagine doing Air War College in residence as a Guard member was very prestigious, an incredible opportunity, and then they sucked me into this fellowship opportunity. But that really changed my trajectory, because at the time, I was in nonprofit, and it pulled me out, put me back in uniform for one year. That was a one-year commitment to do War College in that capacity. And then it was after that I decided to move into corporate. And so I think there's certain times when you get those moments, and what I think is, people race through those — I think they race through that moment. And instead to take a stop and a pause and say, “Do I want to make a change at this moment? Do I want to do this?” I really didn't want to make that change. I didn't want to come out of nonprofit at the time. I didn't want to do War College in residence. I didn't want to do some of those things. And instead, I took it and I said, “I don't know where this is heading, but I'm OK with where this is gonna go.” And I don't think sometimes you need to know all those pieces before you make those decisions. And I think — because then if you need that, you're never going to have it. I mean, you just don't. And so for me, it's always a moment where you stop and you say, “This is an opportunity for me to change where I live, to change my career, to change a family dynamic.” Do you add another kid? Do you, you know, stop at three? You know, what do you do? I think what I have tried to really do is stop and really have it like, really, I really take it… Really take that moment and have that moment and say, this is a moment for me to say, is, “What do I need to change? What do I want to change?” Or nothing? Do I want — I keep going, but I have made that decision.   Naviere Walkewicz  21:30 Well, what I'm hearing from that is a level of confidence in yourself that you've probably developed over time. From, you know, the different interactions you've had from… I mean, wearing so many hats has probably actually given you a stronger confidence in what you're able to accomplish, what your capacity is when you don't really know what's all around you, so to speak, you don't have all the answers. Can we talk a little bit about when you knew that, or when you recognize that in yourself? Because when you made those decisions and you said you walked through those doors with your eyes wide open, you're essentially betting on yourself, right? You have built this trust and confidence in your ability. Can you talk about what that looks like? How you came to that? Because I think there's times where our listeners have this doubt, this self-doubt, so let's talk about that.   Rebecca Gray  22:18 If you have good, good people around you, you ask for good advice. You have a, I think, a faith that can ground you. And you know that you've been given these gifts and this skill set, and you've made certain mile markers in life. I think it just builds over time.   Naviere Walkewicz  22:39 Would you say that you recognized, I guess, betting on yourself and confidence in yourself early in the years when you started diving and recognized, “Wow, this is scary, but OK,” right? Or was it more developed later?   Rebecca Gray  22:52 I started diving when I was 10, and you know, I would be up there on the diving board. I was a little 10-year-old, and sometimes you couldn't get walked down the board. You were terrified. My coach would sit there and she would say, “OK, we're gonna go — 1, 2, 3,” and you go, you learn how to walk down that diving board, and you learn how to do things that you you're not really confident on, and you're not really… But once you master it, it's really fun. It's probably from, I think, diving, athletics, I think does that to you. You know, whether you're chasing that soccer ball and you got to go up against somebody bigger, whether you're in football, and you got to go off up against… My husband was a fullback at the Air Force Academy, and so he went up against lineman at Notre Dame and Ohio State and things like that. And he goes, “It was terrifying.” And so… But when the whistle blows and the play calls called you. You go and so you develop that strength some somehow along the way to push through.   Naviere Walkewicz  23:46 How have you developed those that have come under your care as a leader that maybe didn't have that athletic background? How do you teach them that? How do you instill in them that “go” mentality, that, you know, fear is just your body's response, gets your blood, you know, your blood flowing. How do you do that as a leader?   Rebecca Gray  24:03 I think, I think you do it by going out ahead and standing out there, and maybe you're the only one out there, so to speak, ahead of it, ahead of the team, in believing whatever direction you need to go, whatever new business direction you need to go in, or what new product line you need to develop, or what new revenue goals do you need to accomplish? And you have to go out there, and you've got to do it yourself. I'm probably more of a working leader than a leader that manages. I'm not the best manager, if you will, but I can get out in front. But I think, for me, it's just been leading out in the head, going out there and saying, this is the direction, building that conversation across the team leaders to make sure we're aligned, to make sure we're thinking the same thing. Are you reading the market the way I'm reading the market? Are you reading some of these leadership decisions within the industry that we're reading? And are we seeing this the same way — bouncing those ideas off and then developing that and that groundswell to really go for it.   Naviere Walkewicz  25:06 I want to ask you this question that's tied to this idea of understanding your capacity, your capabilities, your talents, your strengths, betting on yourself, and how you've been able to do that while you still successfully have a 31-year marri… right? Like a marriage and a family that has to also buy into those decisions. What does that look like as a leader when you're making those decisions, when you have children and a family or a spouse, you know? How do you navigate that when they also have their goals?   Rebecca Gray  25:39 Oh, it's so deep. It's so deep because…   Naviere Walkewicz  25:43 It's real because this is what they're facing. You know, all of our leaders are facing these questions.   Rebecca Gray  25:47 It is, it is. You're facing these decisions back at home, and what you've got to manage at home. You know, my husband, I really lead, and we lead by example — that we take care of our business and we do our things. And as soon as the girls were able to do a lot of things for themselves, we gave them that responsibility. That really helped. I think your kids are pretty capable, and they're really strong and they're very smart and they're wise, and they can feel the energy in the room. They can feel your commitment to them.   Naviere Walkewicz  26:19 Well, I mean, I think what I heard through all that as well, is having those values aligned like you do, and then really communicating and then just championing the responsibility and the capabilities of your family members. It seems like, you know, you don't only just do that at work, but what I'm hearing is you've done this and the home life as well, and it's continued to just really evolve your family in such a beautiful way. So thank you for sharing that with us. Because I think that's really powerful and sometimes when our listeners feel like, “Gosh, I don't know how to make this decision,” I think if you start from that place of, “Are we aligned? Do we know what our core, you know, piece is,” go from there, it seems like you've been able to navigate that really well. Thank you for sharing that. Well, I want to ask you something that you're doing every day, because as leaders… And I'm not sure what your thoughts are on this, maybe you can share, but a lot of people will talk about how “I'm always learning. I'm continuing to learn, even as a leader, I'm still learning every day.” Can you share if that's how you feel, and if so, what are you doing on a daily basis to just be a better version of yourself as a leader, professional, etc.?   Rebecca Gray  27:28 I think when you work out and you get a really good workout, and whatever that is, walking or, you know, at the gym or lifting, or whatever that is, biking or swimming — I think for me, that exercise and reading — those are probably the two things that I really work a lot on, and making sure that's just part of the day. You know, a lot of times we don't have to think too much about eating because we get hungry. But, you know, once you start exercising a lot, and you read a lot, and you have that quiet time — when you don't have it, you miss it, and so you almost get hungry for it. And so to create that consistency, so you can create that hunger. If you do skip it, or you want to skip it. Even when I travel for work, I do it. The girls know that if we're in a hotel, I'm going to go run down to the gym for a little bit. They'll come with me or not, but that's something I'm going to do regardless. And then the reading is really, really critical.   Naviere Walkewicz  28:20 You know, one of the things we also love to ask, and maybe this is a better way to ask it, is, if you were to give advice to your daughters on what they could do today to be better leaders for tomorrow, what would that be?   Rebecca Gray  28:32 I don't know if it's a goal to be a leader, but I think it's a goal to develop and be really well rounded, really solid, because you will default to being the leader. If you have that strength, you have that intellectual capacity, you have the humility. But I think having that humility is really, really critical, the well-roundedness, having different aspects to your life. You know, it can't all be just school and homework, and it needs to be whatever that is music or athletics or, you know, what have you in your faith community or something, you've got to have a well-rounded… because things come and go in your life.   Naviere Walkewicz  29:12 Well, I love how you really put that together. Because I think the key thing was, you know, I don't know that they're necessarily aspiring to be a leader, but if they aspire to be well rounded and that kind of a wholesome approach, they will be the leader in the room. And I just, I just love that, because it just makes it so clear, right? I thought that was incredible. Well, we're coming up at our time, and I just have loved this conversation. Is there anything we didn't cover that you just like, this is a time, like, we want to make sure we didn't miss anything that you would like to share.   Rebecca Gray  29:43 What you're really focused on is really powerful. And connecting the alumni, connecting the families, so that they understand what their child is going through at the Academy is really important. Realizing there's life out of the Academy, and you still need to serve, and you still need to contribute, and there's a way, there's a lot of lessons that we had at those four critical years of our life that can carry us. And I think you're really highlighting that and giving us the space to share some of that. So really appreciate that.   Naviere Walkewicz  30:15 Well, I appreciate you saying that, and I just have to share with our listeners: You know, what I've really taken away from today's conversation is that leadership begins in small moments, a cup of coffee, a conversation, you know, choosing to listen, but it grows through courage, you know, the courage to step into uncertainty, which you've done, to serve where others maybe wouldn't, and to believe in your path, even if it looks unconventional.   Rebecca Gray  30:38 It has, yeah, even if it looks unconventional, that's OK. It’s OK too.   Naviere Walkewicz  30:43 And I love that you talked about how it wasn't about the titles, but it was really about the experiences and kind of having that full picture of you and the confidence to bet on yourself. So this has just been a privilege to be with you on Long Blue Leadership I want to thank everyone for listening to this Long Blue Leadership episode. If you know others that are really growing in their leadership journeys and could benefit from this, please share it with them. We love having all of you listen to these wonderful lessons on leadership from our Air Force Academy graduates. So Rebecca, again, thank you so much. We will see you another time, but for now, I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of ’99. Thanks for joining us.   KEYWORDS Rebecca Gray, leadership lessons, authentic leadership, Air Force Academy, military to corporate transition, women leaders, team connection, career development, executive leadership, Boingo Wireless, building confidence, personal growth, leadership podcast, work-life balance, empowering teams, transformational leadership, continuous learning, squadron commander, leadership journey, remote team management, military experience, family and career balance, purpose-driven leadership, leading by example, leadership advice, mentoring, professional development, inspirational stories, alumni connections, values-driven leadership.       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation

*NEW* Focus on Leadership - To be Well is to Lead Well - Tanji Johnson Bridgeman ’97

From aircraft maintenance officer to professional fitness champion to executive coach, Tanji Johnson Bridgeman ’97 has exhibited leadership on many stages. SUMMARY In the premiere episode of Focus on Leadership, she joins host Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99 to share how resilience, self-care and feedback transform challenges into growth — and why caring for yourself is key to leading with presence and impact.   SHARE THIS PODCAST LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/new-focus-on-leadership-to-be-well-is-to-lead-well-tanji-johnson-bridgeman-97/?token=c4b4087d1e85ca9cc11865ec465ee9ef]  |  FACEBOOK  [https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/new-focus-on-leadership-to-be-well-is-to-lead-well-tanji-johnson-bridgeman-97/?token=c4b4087d1e85ca9cc11865ec465ee9ef]   TANJI'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS 1. Lead with a Whole-Person Approach: Effective leadership requires nurturing mind, body, and spirit, not just focusing on one aspect. 2. Reframe Failure as Feedback: View setbacks as events and learning opportunities, rather than personal flaws or endpoints. 3. Consistency Over Perfection: Strive for regular, sustainable effort and give yourself grace rather than aiming for flawless execution. 4. Self-Reflection Builds Authenticity: Regular reflection (e.g., journaling, meditation) helps clarify values and stay true to yourself as a leader. 5. Executive Presence Matters: Project confidence through body language, eye contact, and purposeful communication to influence and inspire others. 6. Take Inventory and Set Self-Care Rituals: Assess mental, physical, and emotional health, then develop small, habitual self-care practices to maintain energy and focus. 7. Recognize and Address Burnout: Leaders must be attentive to signs of burnout in themselves and others, emphasizing rest, breaks, and boundaries. 8. Normalize and Model Wellness in Leadership: Leaders should model healthy habits and make personal wellness a visible priority to support team well-being. 9. Focus on Connection and Service: Shift focus away from self-doubt by being intentional about serving, connecting, and empowering others. 10. Adapt and Accept Change: Growth requires adapting to new realities, accepting changes (including those related to age or circumstances), and updating strategies accordingly.   CHAPTERS 0:00:06 - Introduction to the podcast and guest Tanji Johnson Bridgeman. 0:01:07 - Tanji shares her journey from the Air Force Academy to wellness and leadership. 0:04:13 - Discussing wellness strategies and advice for cadets and young leaders. 0:12:10 - Recognizing burnout, setting boundaries, and maintaining consistency in habits. 0:17:39 - Reframing failure as feedback with examples from Tanji’s career. 0:27:58 - Exploring the concept of executive presence and practical ways to develop it. 0:38:07 - The value of authenticity and self-reflection in leadership. 0:44:21 - Creating sustainable self-care rituals and adopting healthy habits. 1:00:54 - Emphasizing wellness in leadership and the importance of leading by example. 1:02:18 - Final reflections and a summary of key takeaways from the episode.   ABOUT TANJI BIO Tanji Johnson Bridgeman graduated from the United States Air Force Academy in 1997, where she distinguished herself by navigating the rigors of cadet life with both determination and initiative. As one of the first women to serve as Group Superintendent during Basic Cadet Training for the Class of 1999, she honed her leadership and public-speaking skills by addressing hundreds of incoming cadets nightly. Following her commissioning, she served on active duty in the U.S. Air Force — initially in the Academy’s admissions office as a minority enrollment officer, then as an aircraft maintenance officer at Fairchild Air Force Base, Washington, where she led over 200 personnel across six specialties supporting KC-135 air-refueling operations. After four years of service, Tanji pivoted to a second career in fitness and wellness, becoming an 11-time professional champion in the International Federation of Bodybuilding & Fitness (IFBB) and competing for 18 years in 54 pro contests. She later leveraged her competitive success and military-honed leadership into executive-presence and lifestyle-coaching, founding the “Empower Your Inner Champion” brand and offering keynote speaking, coaching, and wellness solutions.    CONNECT WITH TANJI LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanjijohnson/] Instagram: @OriginalTanjiJohnson   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org [Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org] Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org [socialmedia@usafa.org]   <---> Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org [Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org]  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org [Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org] Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org [Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org]      ALL PAST LBL EPISODES [https://www.longblueleadership.org/]  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS [https://www.podbean.com/podcast-network/longbluelinepodcast] AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT Guest, Tanji Johnson Bridgeman ’97 | Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99   Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 If you love the Long Blue Leadership podcast, you’ll want to discover Focus on Leadership, a Long Blue Leadership production of the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation. Here on Focus on Leadership, we move beyond the “why” and dive into the “how,” exploring the habits, mindsets and lessons that turn good leaders into great ones. In each episode, host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz, Class of ’99, sits down with accomplished Air Force Academy graduates and other influential leaders to uncover their stories, their insights and real-world actions that drive excellence. Focus on Leadership: Offering impactful and actionable lessons for today’s exceptional leaders. Without further ado, sit back and enjoy this premiere episode of Focus on Leadership. Naviere Walkewicz 0:58 Welcome to Focus on Leadership, where we take a close look at the practices that make strong leaders even stronger. I'm your host, Naviere Walkewicz, Class of ’99. Today we're joined by Tanji Johnson Bridgeman, Class of ’97, an Air Force Academy graduate whose journey has taken her from aircraft maintenance officer to professional fitness champion, American Gladiator known as “Stealth,” entrepreneur and executive coach. Tanji is here to teach us about leadership through the lens of health and wellness, how caring for yourself physically and mentally fuels your ability to establish presence and lead others with confidence. Tanji, welcome to Focus on Leadership. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 1:36 Thank you, Naviere. It is so good to be here. Naviere Walkewicz 1:40 Such an honor to see you. I mean, as a ‘99 graduate to have a ‘97 trainer here in the presence, I'm already feeling wonderful. And you know, it's been about 10 years since you've been at your academy. How are you feeling? You came back last evening. What are your thoughts? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 1:54 Wow, I was here nine years ago for my 20th reunion. I just feel so much gratitude. I mean, it's so surreal. Even last night, we went to work out. And you know, you're driving up the hill towards Vandenberg, and all these memories are coming back to me from the good times. But the biggest thing I'm feeling is pride, you know, pride and gratitude. Because, you know, we don't always reflect, but just being here, it forces you to reflect, like, this is where it all started. I mean, it really started with my upbringing, but the Air Force Academy, my experience here, laid the foundation for who I became, and I'm so grateful for that. Naviere Walkewicz 2:29 Well, let's go back to the fact that right off the bat, you got off the plane, you met me and we went to work out. So wellness, no joke, is right at the top of your foundation. So how did you get into this space? Let's kind of introduce that to our listeners, because I think it's important for them to really understand the depth of what wellness means. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 2:46 Well, the funny thing about it is I never would have imagined that I would be doing what I'm doing today, because I was a die-hard — I thought I'm going in the military, and I'm staying in for 20 years. So when I was here, you know, I was on the cadet Honor Guard and I cheered, and that's when I fell in love with lifting weights. So I got into competing, even as a lieutenant, and I just I fell in love, and I turned professional. And so there was these transitions where I had an opportunity to be a professional athlete, and I took it, right? And so I became a professional bodybuilder, fitness champion. And then next thing you know, I'm on NBC’s American Gladiators. That was wild. And so I did that for a while, and then I became a trainer and a coach and a promoter and a judge, and did all the things bodybuilding. And then I retired in 2016, and that's around the time I met my husband, and so really that's when my real wellness journey began. Because prior to that, it was heavily around physical fitness, but wellness for me began when I transitioned and retired from competing. And really, I had to figure out what is my fitness life going to look like, because it's not going to be working out three times a day on a calorie-deficient diet. Naviere Walkewicz 3:57 Three times a day… Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 3:58 Right, none of that. I was like, I'm done. I'm done. But I really had to design the rest of my life and really figure out what that was going to look like. So I got into functional medicine, health coaching. I married a chiropractor, so we believe in holistic medicine, and that's where it started. Naviere Walkewicz 4:13 Excellent. And so this is not a traditional career path. So let's kind of go back to the cadet mindset. For example: How would you — knowing what you know now — maybe talk to yourself as a cadet, or actually, cadets that might be listening, of what they should be thinking about in this priority space of wellness, in leadership? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 4:30 Absolutely, I think that's a great question. The disadvantage for young leaders, whether they're cadets or lieutenants, is that they don't have the luxury of having a lot of life experience. And so building a foundation is important, and it takes mindfulness and just, “What should we be aware of?” So what I would want to impart on them is to adopt the philosophy of looking at wellness from a whole-person approach, because high performance is going to demand it. And so when I say whole person, wellness is multi-dimensional. So we want to look at the mindset, we want to look at the body and we want to look at the spirit, and being able to start from a place where you're going to go into all of those. Naviere Walkewicz 5:13 Well, as a cadet, there are so many hats they have to wear. No pun intended. They have to be on top of their game in the academic space. They have to be on top of the game in the military, and then also athletically. Can you talk about, or maybe share an example as a cadet, how you navigated that journey of wellness and what that looked like? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 5:32 Well, let's go back to — so I didn't get a chance to break down. So mind, body, spirit. Why is that important? Because in anything, any philosophies that we adopt, we have to really see where it's important. So when you think of what is an officer, what is a leader going to have to do with their mind, this is where they have to have clarity. It's going to help with focus, creativity to innovate new solutions. And so we need to be able to prioritize our mindset and our mental health. And then there's the body, right? So a lot of us are going to be going on deployments. We're going to work long hours. Our body is what's going to give us the fuel and energy and the stamina to get through a day. It's literally bringing our energy. And then you think about the spirit, and this one is really special, and it's probably the most neglected. So when you think about the spirit, this is where you're going to anchor in with your emotional health. What is your purpose? What is your “why?” You know, earlier today, I was having a great discussion with Gen. Marks, and he shared with me that one of his goals for the cadets is that when they graduate, you know, they're going to be committed to being leaders, but are they committed — like really committed — and bought in to knowing what their purpose is going to be? And I think that a big part of that is being able to explore their spirit in advance, so they can discover their identity and their strengths in advance and to be able to go off into the leadership and fully own it. And so an example that I would like to present: When I was coaching bodybuilders and female athletes, I remember I started a team. And now this is going to be a team of women that they have the common goal of competing. So they're trying to pursue physical excellence with how they transform their physiques. But what I did was I brought this team together, this sisterhood of women. So a couple of things that I wanted to see, I wanted sisterhood and support. I wanted them to have the commonality of the same goal, and I wanted them to be able to support each other, and I wanted to be able to support them by elevating their mindset. And so one of the things that I did that was really unique at the time, that a lot of other coaches and leaders weren't doing, — when somebody wanted to work with them, they just sign them up. But I would have a consultation. It was kind of more of an interview, because one of the questions I would ask is, “Naviere, why do you want to compete?” And then I'd give them examples, like, you know, “Is this a bucket list? Are you trying to improve your health? Is this for validation and attention? Is this because you're competitive? Because, if you're competitive, and you're telling me that you just started working out last year, maybe we need to wait a couple of years.” You see what I mean. So when you go back to the “why,” it keeps you in alignment to move forward, in alignment with your why, but a lot of people don't know what that is, and sometimes all it takes is asking the question. Naviere Walkewicz 8:17 So the question I'd love to ask you then, is going back to the cadet side, because I think talking to Gen. Marks and the purpose piece, you know, you actually, I think as a cadet, remember, you were on Honor Guard. You were also a cadet… I think you were the cheer captain of our cheerleading team. I feel that that is such a great testament to the fact that you have to figure out, you know, the purpose of, how do I do more and give more and still stay connected to my purpose of where you said in the beginning, “I was going to serve 20 years in the Air Force.” How do our cadets get that same level of interviewer coaching with someone without having that life experience yet? Like, what would you share with them now, from your learning experience? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 8:55 So when I think back to… OK, so when you look at wellness, and you think of mental wellness, physical wellness, emotional wellness, you know, I think what happens here at the Academy — and I remember starting this way — we prioritize physical fitness, right? I remember being in that fight-or-flight mode like, OK, if I can just show that I am, you know, prioritizing physical fitness, that strength is going to get me respect, and I could definitely feel the difference in how I was treated. The problem sometimes with prioritizing physical fitness… It’s great because, you know, it can strengthen your mind. So if your body's feeling strong, your mindset is strong, but it becomes problematic when your body fails. So what happens when you fail? And I have plenty of stories and memories, my goodness, of being on Honor Guard, one that I remember distinctly is, you know, if you had me doing push-ups or pull-ups, oh, I was in a zone. I was impressing everybody. I was passing all the tests, but you put me in a formation where the short people are in the back, you throw a helmet, M1 Garand, and we have to go run 3 miles now, now I'm falling out and I'm getting exhausted. And you know, the body goes — the stress goes up, the blood sugar goes down. It's just physiology, right? And so what happens is, now mentally, my mind is becoming weak. So when the body fails, my mind is getting weak,   Naviere Walkewicz 10:13 And you've been training your body right? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 10:14 Right, right. And so I look back, and I just, I remember those days in Honor Guard where I would feel doubt, like, “Am I going to make it do? I deserve to be here? Am I good enough?” I would feel discouraged, right? And I would go back to my room and then something happened. So after about two weeks of suffering through this pain and this big challenge, I remember thinking, “Gosh, every time they beat me down physically, I feel so weak mentally. But I was in my room and I remember having anxiety for the next day, like, “Oh, I'm going out there again.” And for some reason that meme, you know, with the Asian guy that says, “But did you die?” Right? That's always in my head, and I remember saying that to myself, like, “It was hard. Today was hard, but did I die?” No. And actually, after two weeks, I'm like, “It's actually getting easier,” like, because I'm getting more fit, right? I'm able to do the push-ups. I'm running further. And I remember that was the mindset shift where I realized, “OK, now, tomorrow, when I go out to practice, I'm not going to be as afraid, because I've already decided that I can do hard things.” And so now, when I was enduring the practice, right, and the leadership of my Honor Guard cadre, I was prepared with that mental strength, right? And so that's what we need. We need to be able to train so that when our body fails, our mind prevails, right? Naviere Walkewicz 11:39 Love that — those three facets of wellness, and that's a really strong way to explain it. And so you gave a couple examples about when the body fails, so when we think about how we're wired, and I think many of us are this way, as cadets, as graduates, as those who really want to succeed in life, right? Thinking about resilience, how do we balance? Or maybe balance isn't the right word, but how do we make sure we're very mindful of that line between healthy discipline and then harmful overdrive. How do you navigate that? Maybe, what would you share with some of our listeners? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 12:11 Well, you were asking like, how do we recognize when it's happened? You know, the good news is, your body will leave clues. You will have emotional clues, you will have physical clues, you're going to have behavioral clues. Your body will leave clues. So the first thing is, I think that if we can be willing to evolve — you know, look at what culture are we in now, like you and I, we come from a culture where the philosophy was grit at any cost. Push, push, push, push, and drive, drive, drive. You know, I think about, as an athlete, you know, especially if you're motivated. You're thinking, when I was training my body, I remember thinking, “I want to get these results, and so I'm going to do what it takes. So every day I'm doing the lifting, I'm eating the food, and I'm going to train every day.” And I remember on that seventh day, you know, I had done all the things, I took the supplements, I got all the sleep, and I went in to train, and my body was exhausted. And it's because I was physically burning out, and my body needed the rest. And then it really transferred into how I would choreograph my training and so with routine. So I was a fitness competitor. I did these fitness, crazy fitness routines where I'm doing push-ups and squats and gymnastics and flying around, right? And it's two minutes long. So think of doing like a crazy CrossFit routine for two minutes straight without stopping, and smiling. And so I remember being strategic, right? And how I would lay out those practices athletically, where I would do a portion, 30 seconds — I would train 30 seconds at a time, and then the next day I would do the next 30 seconds, a week later I would go for about a minute. But the part I want you to know is, right before the competition, I would decrease that training load. I would actually do less, because the year that I trained full out, all the way up into the competition, I didn't do well on stage because my body was exhausted. So again, our body is going to leave us clues, and we have to be willing to evolve, to say that self-care — it's not selfish, but it's strategic. And so we need to pay attention to those signs, because we're going to have a choice to either pivot and be intentional and strategic with taking care of ourselves, or we're going to stay stuck in this old-school thinking that's not going to serve us. Naviere Walkewicz 14:38 So if it's not the body telling you — because we talk about how wellness is more than just physical — how do you recognize signs on the spiritual side, on your emotional side, that you might be in this harmful space of it’s too much give, give, give, and not enough fill, fill, fill. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 14:55 I think that's a great question. So here's some telltale… So going back to physical, you know, like the examples I gave, you're going to feel exhausted, you're going to have muscle tension, you might even start to have stomach issues. Those are all great physical signs that you're reaching burnout. Now, when you think of mentally, if you notice emotionally and mentally, that you start getting irritable and you've become more impatient and you're having a harder time making decisions, those are also great clues that mentally, you're starting to get burnt out. And then when you think of behaviorally, you know, let's say you had a great morning routine, and now all of a sudden, you find yourself in this season where you've abandoned that, or you have deadlines that you're usually very protective, and you can get things done, but now you're starting to procrastinate, and you're thinking like, “Who am I right now? I'm procrastinating. I've abandoned my wellness routine. I'm not even… I don't even have a morning routine.” That's when you should really step back. And I think one of the practical tools that everyone can do is check in with themselves on a regular basis. So I'm being very transparent. I check in with myself daily. So let's say I do three back-to-back hours of Zoom calls: Maybe ones with an executive coaching clients. Maybe another one is a team Zoom, where I'm training a group of folks, and then another team meeting. After that three hours, I will stop, and I'll check in with myself, and I'll take a deep breath and say, “How am I feeling? Do I feel like getting right back on a call? No, my brain is fried right now.” And then I'll pivot and I'll go take a 10-minute walk around break. And that's just one of my strategies. Naviere Walkewicz 16:30 So it does… A check in doesn't have to be this grand “I take time off and I spend a week.” It literally could just be a few minutes of [breathes deeply] and check in with yourself, because I think sometimes time is a challenge as well, right? We talk about, how do we prioritize all these things and we're within this 24-hour period. How do we make sure that the time piece is something that we can also utilize to take care of ourselves, and so when you said it doesn't have to take a lot of time to check in. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 16:58 And think about it. So we just talked about how to check in with yourself daily. What about like in your career? You know, I was helping physique athletes with poise mastery, basically teaching posing to athletes for over 15 years, and towards the end of that career, what I started to notice when I would mentally check in with myself, is I would notice that as I was driving to the office to go work with another client, I just did not feel as energized. I didn't feel as passionate. My motivation was going down, and this was a sign for me that I was getting burnt out from this specific way of serving, and it was my first clue that it was time to pivot and to look at something else. Naviere Walkewicz 17:38 That's really interesting, because when you think about when you're making big decisions, whether in career, whether in leadership or just, you know… The fact that you have these signs help you make those decisions, but I also wonder if it helps you at times think about part of the growth is maybe not totally pivoting, but it's recognizing that I'm supposed to go through this period of hardship. So what I'm kind of alluding to right now, is failure, right? So failure, as we go through some of our experiences are inevitable, right? How do we make sure we're using failure in a way to grow, as opposed to the easy button of, well, I failed, so I'm pivoting. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 18:18 OK, so that would be like a reaction. You're reacting to what happened, and you think what you need to do is flee from it. So you have to be able to discern, “Am I pivoting because I'm afraid, or because I feel like I'm not good enough, or because my purpose and my spirit is telling me that my work is done here, and I'm looking for innovation.” I'm looking for something new. I'm looking to impact new people. So going back to failure — like public speaking, it's one of the top two fears, right?   Naviere Walkewicz 18:52 What’s the other? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 18:53 Oh, public speaking, flying, swimming [laughs]. No, I’m just kidding. Only if you grow up like me. But going back to failure, I think that people fear failure a lot because they make the mistake of connecting it to their identity instead of realizing failure is an event. It's not your identity. And so how many times do we do something, and maybe it's a competition, or it's an event or an application, and you fail. You don't get the desired result. It's an event. So what we need to do is reframe failure as feedback. That's it. So I have a great example. When I think about a great example of someone who was able to show in person, in reality, that when they failed, it did not disrupt their identity at all. So I don't know if there's any boxing fans out there, Naviere Walkewicz 19:46 Oh, we have some, I’m sure. Yeah. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 19:47 The Canelo and Crawford fight, it was a couple weeks ago. Did you see that? Naviere Walkewicz 19:50 I didn't, but I did hear about this. Actually, honestly, I fell asleep. I planned to watch it. My husband watched it, but I fell asleep. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 19:57 Oh, they went all the rounds, right? It was a great fight. Really, really great. You saw two physical specimens, you know, at the top of their game. They were both undefeated. I believe Canelo was favored to win, but he didn't. He lost the belt, right? And so Crawford wins. And so I'm always very intrigued with how people respond to failure when it's public, right? And so Crawford got to make his speech, and then when Canelo made his speech, you know, one of the first things they ask is, “OK, so you didn't get the result you were hoping for. You didn't win this bout. How are you feeling?” And he gave an answer that I totally didn't expect. He said, “I feel great.”   Naviere Walkewicz 20:39 Just like that?   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 20:40 Yes. He was like, “I feel great.” He was like, “It was a great fight,” you know. He affirmed Crawford, you know, edified him. Talked about how great he was, you know, but he maintained his identity, and you could feel that in his spirit. He said, “I feel great. I came out here. I did a great job. I did what I was supposed to do. Obviously, there's room for feedback, to learn. You know, I didn't get the result I wanted. So whether it was endurance or I wasn't strategic enough, or I didn't prioritize my offense, there's feedback there.” He's going to learn from that. But he basically had such a great attitude. And he ended it by saying, you know, “I feel great and it was great time.” And I remember thinking like, “Wow, now there's an example of someone who did not own the failure and make it a part of his identity. It was just an event.” And his legacy will still be restored, right? And to be honest with you, it made me think about my own career. Naviere Walkewicz 21:31 Yes, so did you, have you experienced anything like that in your career? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 21:34 Have I experienced failure? Over and over again. Naviere Walkewicz 21:39 And how did you respond in your, you know, the wellness side of it, when you think about, you know, what you're trying to do, your purpose. How did you use that? Did you use it as feedback? Or what did that look like for you. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 21:50 So let's say in sports, if you don't win, then that event is deemed as a failure, right? And so if you think about it, I did 54, I've done 54 professional bodybuilding, fitness competitions.   Naviere Walkewicz 22:04 Wow. OK, what year did you start, just so we can get some perspective?   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 22:06 I started in 2001 and retired in 2016, so about 17 years. And I won 11 of them. So that means out of, and that's a lot, actually. So out of that many, that means I lost all the others. And there's one particular competition that will always be dear to my heart, and it was the Arnold Classic. Yes, the Arnold Schwarzenegger. You know, he has this gigantic competition every year. And midway through my career, I started I got in the top five. So I would get fourth, and then the next year I'd get third, and then I'd go down to fourth, and then I'd get second, right? I think I got second maybe four years in a row. So basically, in my 10th year of competing, I finally won the darn thing. So Arnold comes from across the stage, and I'm already crying, and, you know, with his accent, “Why are you so emotional?” And there's a picture of me taking the microphone from him because I had something to say, and in that moment, because it was a special moment, I realized, yes, all of these years of failure, every time I competed, I missed the mark. I missed the mark. I missed the mark. But what did I do? I took that feedback and I went back and said, “What do I need to do differently? What does this mean? How can I improve my physique? How did I need better stamina in my routine?” And every year, I was coming back better and better and better. But guess what? So were the other athletes, right? And so when I won in that 10th year, I actually would not have had it any other way, because I don't think it would have meant as much to me. Because what was happening, I may have won the Arnold Classic on that day, but I was becoming a champion throughout that whole 10-year process. You see what I did there. So it's not your identity, it's an event. So if you look at it and reframe it as feedback, then you can leverage that and use it as an opportunity to win. Naviere Walkewicz 24:00 So failure, and we’re going to say synonym: feedback. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 24:03 Exactly. Naviere Walkewicz 24:04 I like that. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 24:05 I mean, and I'll give you another example. So you know, I did my first TEDx Talk last year, and I was a part of this coaching group. And here's the thing: As leaders, we get to create and build culture. And I think it's very important for leaders to create a culture where they normalize failure and they teach their teams that it's meant to be for feedback. So encourage courage, and then help them leverage the failure or the mistake as lessons learned so that they can grow and move forward. So I'm in this coaching group, and they told us, “We're going to have you send out probably an average of 80 applications. Now we're going to guide you and tell you what to do, but every application is different, because the event promoters are different. So we can't tell you exactly what they all want, but you're going to find out when you apply.” So I remember applying, I think, to UCLA Berkeley or something, and I applied to do a TEDx Talk, and midway through my application, they asked me, what was my scientific evidence and proof of my theory and my great idea? And I didn't have one at the time. And I remember thinking, “I'm going to go ahead and finish this application, but yay, I just got some feedback that I need to include scientific data in my pitch and in presenting my idea.” And it was shortly after, I think I did five more applications and I got selected. And so now I have been so trained to see failure as an opportunity to grow and excel, that when I am afraid of something, I reframe it immediately, and then I actually look forward to it, like, “Oh my gosh, I can't wait to get out there and do this thing, because I'm going to get this feedback, and that's going to make me better.” Naviere Walkewicz 25:39 Well, I think that's really wonderful in the way that you frame that. Because, you know, in the military, and I was actually just at a conference recently, and they were talking about how failure should be a part of training. Failure is actually the most important part of the training, because when it comes time to actual execution, operationally, that's when we can't fail, right? So, like, you want that feedback through all the training iterations, and so, you know, the way you just, you know, laid that out for us, it was in a sense that, you know, you had this framework, “I'm getting feedback, I'm training, I'm training, I'm training.” And then, you know, of course, when you took the champion spot… Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 26:10 And I love… I think back to when I physically learned to appreciate failure was through weight training. And I know you've done it too, because can you go back and remember the first time you know, as a bodybuilder, when you lift weights, you're trying to grow your muscle, and to grow the muscle, the muscle fibers have to tear, and so there has to be a certain level of intensity and hardship in doing that. So if you're one of those people that you go to the gym and you're doing, you know, 15 easy reps, four sets, you never break a sweat, you're toning and you're getting some movement in, but you're not tearing your muscle fibers, and that's probably why they're not growing. So when I worked with the trainer and we were doing overhead military presses, and I physically felt like I was done at about 12 reps, but he was spotting me, so he just kept force repping me through six to eight more. I mean, until my arms were done, and I put my arms down, and they started to float up in the air. And he looks at me, because I'm looking at him, like, “Dude, what are you doing?” I'm like, “Wow, are you trying to hurt me?” And he just said, “No, but I do need you to learn that you're going to have to fail in order to grow and win.” And I was like… So then after that, we're going in the gym, like, “All right, Naviere, we're going to hit failure today. Oh yeah, we're going to learn how to fail.” “Did you fail at the gym last night?” “Yes, I did.” So in the bodybuilding community, it's celebrated. You know, it's a concept where that's we're trying to work through failure because we know it's on the other side. Naviere Walkewicz 27:34 Yes. Oh, I love that. That's fantastic. Well, and then you said you retired in 2016, so that was probably quite a transition in the fact where you had to… You probably have been doing all the wellness check-ins. “Where am I at? What am I thinking?” How did you make that transition into the executive presence space? Because it doesn't seem like it's a direct correlation from someone's body building to executive presence. Or maybe it is. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 27:58 So, in in body building, I developed a niche. So I started off as a trainer, and then very quickly, probably because of some of my Honor Guard background, I mean, we did precision drill, and I just realized that I can… I learned things really easily, and then I can teach it. I can see something and break it down in detail and teach it. And so I got really good at doing that for the athletes proposing to where I was able to build a whole career and get paid really well through poise mastery. Now what I think? You know when I think back to all the things we had to do as a cadet, from standing at attention, keeping your chest up, you know, your chin in projecting we were all we were already starting to work on our executive presence, but we just didn't know realize it, right? And so in the real world outside of the military, where people are not building habits of standing up straight on a regular basis, they don't. I go into board rooms. I go to events where I see people get on stage. They're looking down, they're fidgeting, they're not making eye contact, they're speaking too softly. And so executive presence is the ability to project confidence in how you show up and the way that you communicate and how you get people to experience you, because, unfortunately, we live in a society where perception shapes opportunity. So as a leader, if you're not commanding that authority right off the bat, you may you may be missing the mark on being able to influence, and that's what leadership is. And so I was basically elevating all of these athletes to just present the best version of themselves, and in leadership, that's what we want, too. We all have strengths, we all have learned skills. We all have something to offer. But if we're not projecting and presenting our inner power externally, a lot of times we miss that mark, and I want to connect the dots. And that's kind of what hit me when I thought about moving into the executive space, is, you know, I can… sure I can teach you how to stand in front of a red carpet and some power poses, but it goes beyond that. It's how we communicate. It's our body language. And so there's, there's a lot of skills that can be learned. Naviere Walkewicz 30:09 Well, let's start with maybe just sharing a couple. How can our leaders, our listeners start to display a stronger executive presence every day? What's the first couple things you might have them start thinking about? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 30:22 OK, so physically, I would start like, let's say with body language is eye contact. So my concern with this, the generation that we have now is they're dealing with a disadvantage that we didn't have to deal with. You know, when we were in school together 20 years ago, we were connecting all the time. It wasn't even a challenge. We were always together in person, building relationships, connecting, communicating. And now we're in a digital world where our attention is, is we're fighting for it, right? And so a lot of times I will watch people, and I realize whether they're going out to dinner and they are not maintaining eye contact because they're distracted, and they really haven't been, they haven't been trained to really be present. So for example, when you're speaking with someone and you're making eye contact with them. They feel seen,, you know? And so that's, that's one of the strongest ones. OK, Naviere Walkewicz 31:16 OK. I like that a lot. That's perfect. So as they're starting to think about the first thing is being present and making eye contact, from a — that's a physical standpoint. Maybe what, from a mental or emotional standpoint should be they be doing from a starting point for executive presence? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 31:33 OK, so being intentional. So when you think about your leader, and let's say you're going to speak in front of the Cadet Wing, or you're going to start managing a team, or you're going to a networking event as an executive, and you're trying to pick up a few sponsors. Before you even go to the event, you can be intentional about who am I meeting with, what is my goal and how do I want them to feel. So when you think about networking, a lot of times, there's people, I have a client. You know, she hired me because she has a little bit of social anxiety. She's younger, and so she's on a board where everybody's older than her. So there's a little bit of that mental insecurity of, you know, “Am I good enough? Do I have what it takes? Are these people going to respect me,” right? And so she's coming into the situation already insecure, and she's thinking about herself. “How am I going to be perceived?” instead of going there, focused on connection, right? So if she was to go there and say, “This is who's going to be there. This is how I want to make them feel. So I'm actually going to be very intentional about asking questions that's going to connect with them, that's going to make them feel a certain way. If I want this audience to feel respected, what do I what do I ask them, and what do I say? What do I highlight? If I want them to feel accepted and warm. What can I say?” And so it just gives you more power to show up, be present and be intentional, and you'll feel more confident, because now you've taken the focus away from yourself to how you're going to serve others. Naviere Walkewicz 33:02 That is excellent, and that leads us into a bit of the mental piece of it, right, the mindset. So earlier, you talked about how you had a mindset shift when you were getting beat down in Honor Guard, you know, you're in the back, you know, because of the vertical challenge, and you're running, you know, and you're hanging in there, and you got better. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 33:19 Well, it makes me think about when I was auditioning for American Gladiators. And again, I'm going to go back to this executive presence and where I use my mental training to serve me, so when I was auditioning, so if you guys don't remember, the old show was, there was no water, right? It was just everything was over big, you know, pillows and just a flat area, OK? So when I went in there to audition, I remember there was for the sake of diversity, there was like, two of everything. There was two Black women there, there was two redheads, two blondes. And I remember looking around thinking, “OK, both of us are not getting this job.” And so the very last part of the audition, after many rounds, is you had to go in front of the executive committee, and you had a one-minute pitch. You could say whatever you want, but they're all sitting there with their arms crossed, and you just get to go in there. And I remember thinking, “OK, I am shorter than her, but I'm more muscular. And, you know, she's been on tons of fitness magazines. She's, you know, super beautiful, more popular. I want to go in there, and I want to be intentional about showing them that what I'm going to present is the right fit for the show.” And so I walked in there and I called the room to attention. I used my Honor Guard diaphragm, and I called the room to attention. And then I went in and I started telling them about how during basic training, I was like one of the pugil stick champions. And they thought that was great, because we had an event for that, right? And so, you know, going back to that mental training, you know, part of it is just that intention of being prepared, you know, what is it that you want to achieve? What are you going to do? And then you strategize and have a game plan for how you're going to go in there. Now, another example: So once I got… I got the job, yay, right? And then we go to Sony studios, and I look at the set, and I realized that half of the set is over water. So half of the events, the joust, Hang Tough, the rock climbing, it's all over water. And you guys remember when I talked about a little bit not, not being a big swimmer. And so this was fascinating to me, but I didn't want anyone to know, because I didn't want to lose my job, right? And so here's where I tapped into my mental and mindset training. So as an athlete, I did this a lot: To preserve my physical body, because of all the gymnastics and routines, I didn't overtrain, because there's damage when you over train. But I would visualize myself going through my movements, and I would picture myself being successful, so I didn't visualize myself messing up or anything like that. And there was, there would be repetition after repetition after repetition. And so what I did to face that fear of having to do events that were going to land me in the water is I had to use logic, you know, so I literally would say, “OK, if I end up being in the joust and I get hit, I'm going to fall in the water. And this is how far away the edge of the pool is. I'm going to take a deep breath. I'm going to I know how to do the stroke, so I'm going to get over there.” But I had to visualize myself falling and then I use logic to just keep myself calm. So I visualize myself hitting the water and being calm, because I would prepare myself to be calm. If I wasn't, I probably would have panicked and drowned. And so I think back to that, and I never told anybody, but I was ready, and I was not afraid, because I had already went through the mental training to prepare myself to do something that I was uncomfortable doing. Naviere Walkewicz 36:50 And so did you fall into the water, and did it play out the way that you had mentally prepared it for? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 36:56 So here's what's crazy. I'm probably not even supposed to talk about this, but the way they film some of these shows, they're not in sequence. So imagine that I'm filming a water event from Episode 1, 3 and 8. OK, well, for me, like, my third day there, I actually tore my ACL falling off the pyramid. And so, you know, those viewers at home didn't know that. So actually the answer is no, I actually didn't even get put into a water event because I got injured beforehand. But I was ready mentally. Regardless, I was actually disappointed, because I was ready to see that courage come to the surface. Naviere Walkewicz 37:32 Oh my goodness! These are all such wonderful examples of how you have really almost embodied wellness throughout your decisions as a leader throughout your career. I'm really curious, as you think about how you've been true to yourself in this journey, because there's an authenticity to you that only Tanji could bring. And so I'm wondering, how do you know who is your authentic self as a leader, and how have you continued to really show up for yourself in that way? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 38:07 I think this is very important. And you know, my heart goes out to the young leaders, because, again, like I was saying earlier, they haven't had the experience yet. And I even remember when my sister, my younger sister, she was struggling to figure out what she wanted to do for a living, and she was a college graduate, and she still didn't know. And a lot of it is because when you don't have that personal life experience, you know — experience is a teacher. It tells you, it leaves clues. So when you don't have that, you kind of feel like you're just shooting from the hip trying to figure it out. And so what I think is important is to start the art of self-reflection early. I will never forget I was on a TDY during the Kosovo crisis. I was at RF Mildenhall, and I was a maintainer, and I remember having, you know, a lot, I think, over 200 troops over there, but it was kind of a lonely season for me, because all my peers were pilots, and they were all flying, and, you know, I didn't have anyone to hang out with, and I wasn't home, you know, I was, I was TDY. So I remember just spending my time. I would go to the gym, and then I would go for walks, and I did a lot of journaling. And I don't know why I had the foresight been but I would, you know, ask myself questions like, “Who am I? What matters to me? What values are important to me?” And the process of doing that really helped me solidify my identity. And so, for example, I knew that I thought self-love was really important to me. It was a value that I care about. So when I see people that are self-deprecating, they're talking poorly about themselves. They don't believe in themselves. This hurts my soul. It's a part of who I am, right? And so I've always believed in self-acceptance, you know. For me, as a Christian, you know, I want to celebrate how God made me and have that level of self-love. So when I was a cheerleader at the Air Force Academy, I remember I didn't have self-esteem issues with my body image. Nothing about it, right? And then I go off an become a professional fitness competitor — now I’m competing. And in that industry, breast implants were very prevalent and they were starting to get really popular. And it made me really insecure. So if you think about it, I did not change, but my environment changed. So as leaders, how often are we going to be in situations where your environment is constantly changing and maybe you feel that pressure to conform? And so in my environment, most of the women around me, as a means to an end, were getting breast implants to change how their body looked, to look more feminine, to be more accepted. And there’s nothing wrong if that’s what you want to do, but I remember feeling like, “Now I’m insecure about my body. Now I don’t feel as pretty. Now I don’t feel as feminine.” And I remember that being problematic because it wasn’t in alignment with my identity. And so, again, knowing what my values are, I thought, “Well, I could go get the operation like a lot of people do. But this is problematic because I don’t want to lead a life — and how am I going to go back and coach other women and lead a team if now what I’m saying is whatever is true to who you are and your identity, it’s OK to abandon that.” And so, for me, that’s why I chose not to have that surgery. And I started this journey — it took about two years — of being able to redefine beauty, redefine femininity. And this is kind of where all the different tools came in. So I started looking in the mirror and I would do positive — because it’s self-taught. Instead of looking at my chest and saying, “You’re flat and it looks masculine and you’re not feminine enough,” I would say, “Girl, do you know what this chest cand do? We can do crazy push-ups.”  And I would say, “Wow, you’re strong.” And over time, I changed how I felt about myself. And it was a very proud moment for me, because I look back, and that’s why identity is so important. You need to take the time to reflect on who you are, what do you stand for, so that when those moments of pressure come, you’re going to be able to make a decision to stay in alignment with who you are. Naviere Walkewicz 42:15 So you said — and maybe it’s by grace — that you hadn’t really planned. You just started journaling in those moments of quiet when you’re feeling a little bit alone as TDY. Is that the best way, you think, to spend some time figuring out who you are? What’s important to you? Or are there other tools you might suggest? Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 42:33 There’s going to be multiple tools. You know, for me, I like to write. You know, for some people, they will pray and they will just ask a higher being to guide me and to make me more aware, make things known to me. For other people, they’re going to meditate. You know, I liked journaling. I also have the strength of curiosity. And so, because of that, I was always not only asking myself a lot of questions, but I was asking other people too. And so, for example, if people don’t have that strength of curiosity and they’re thinking, “I really don’t reflect very much and I’m never asking myself those questions,” you know, you don’t necessarily have to journal it, but you can just take time to spend in reflection. But some of the work that I do, I take people through identity activation drills where I will list several, several different lists of values, different lists of strengths, and they’ll think about each one and they’ll really start to think about, “Let me think of a time where I experienced one of these strengths.” Or, “What’s the last thing somebody celebrated?” Or, “What do people tend to tell me or complement?” And then all of a sudden they realize,” I didn’t realize this was a strength, but, wow, this is a strength!” And now they can own it because they’re aware of it.  Naviere Walkewicz 43:48 That is outstanding. So, you’ve really taken wellness into practice with everything you’ve done. You started to elevate others around you to have this ability to discover themselves and then have this executive presence. You know, if all the things you are doing, it takes energy. How are you… Because I know you talked about not overtraining and making sure you preserve that and doing mental reps. Is that really the special sauce? The mental training so that you don’t find yourself in a period where you just lack energy and burnout?    Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 44:22 So basically, how do you sustain energy when it comes to wellness? So again, you go back to mind, body and spirit. So what I would do is I would — and this is for each person… You just break it down. You ask yourself, “OK, mind. How am I going to keep energy in my mind? What can I do?”  One of the easiest things to do is to just take a short break. So when I gave you the example of how my mind was working at full capacity for three hours straight. So when I was done, it needed a bit of a reset. And so what I do every day when I’m at home is I go outside and I visit with my chickens. So I have chickens and I have four cats. And so I will take a mental break and it’s a habit for me now. I get up from the table and I will walk, because it decreases your stress hormones when you have movement, and I will give my mind a break and I will allow myself to observe. That’s my favorite thing: I call it mindful walks where I just go outside and I will just take a moment. You know when they say, “Just stop and smell the roses.” No, seriously.   Naviere Walkewicz 45:28 Or the chickens…   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 45:29 So the chickens make me smile because when I come out there I typically have treats. But they just come… They bumrush me.  So I go out there and they make me smile and then something wonderous will happen, like I might see my cat just sprinting up a tree and I’m just thinking, “Wow, what a hunter,” right? They’re so fast. Then, you know, I see my dahlias that have been sprouting and I just can’t believe how fast they grow overnight with sunshine. And that’s just 10 minutes. And then I come back in and I instantly feel recharged and I sit down and I’m restored and ready to focus again on the next task. So, mentally, I like taking breaks. When it comes to physically, just getting into movement. And, you know, a lot of times people will think, “Well, I don’t have time to go to the gym for an hour.”      Naviere Walkewicz 46:16 Or, “I’m tired already. How am I supposed to go workout?”   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 46:17 Exactly. So when I think about the body, you know, there’s four pillars that you can focus on. And if you feel like you’re not mastering any of them, just start with one. So food is one. Food is fuel. And then we have hydration. You know, my husband’s mom actually went to the hospital because she works all the time and she had been out in the sun and we discovered that she was dehydrated and it put her in the hospital. So sometimes when we’re going after the mission and we’re doing one task after — you know, when people forget to drink water and eight hours later you’re dealing with brain fog, you’re irritable, you don’t understand what’s happening. But you didn’t fuel the body. So hydration, movement, food and sleep. So those are like the four pillars. And I would just ask yourself — so if I’m working with a health coaching client, I would say, “Out of those four areas, where do you want to start?” They’ll say, “Sleep. My sleep health is terrible.” And then I can take it step further and say, “Have you heard of a thing called sleep hygiene?” They’re like, “What’s that?” “Sleep hygiene is literally, what is your sleep ritual? What are your habits to prepare for bedtime? Do you have a consistent bedtime? Do you decrease blue-light therapy? Do you put the phone away? Do you take a bubble bath to relax?” When you think about your environment and what your habits are, when some people tell you, “I do not feel rested,” we look at your sleep hygiene. What’s going on? There’s things that we can fix, and that’s just with sleep. And so I ask people, “Where would you like to start? And you just pick one habit that you can commit to over time and once you’ve mastered that, you start to habit-stack.” Naviere Walkewicz 47:57 Amazing. So that was — you talked about, from the energy, when it comes to your physical and then your mental. What about from the spiritual side?    Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 48:07 OK, so, this is — and I think this is important because, again, I talk about the spirit is the anchor for your emotional health, right? And so you want to think about activities that’s going to feed your soul and your spirit. Now I’ll give an example. If you’re going through, let’s say, a season where you’re irritable and you’re feeling ungrateful and you’re pessimistic and everything just seems bad. We’re actually kind of in a season like that right now sometimes. One of the things I do — so this is just an exercise, but it’s a gratitude process. Write down 100 things you are grateful for. I did this for three months straight. It took me about 20 minutes, but I got really good at it. And when you have to list out 100 things, you know, at first you might do 20 and you’re like, “All right. Where do I go from here?” But you’re forced to dig deeper. And when I came up with my 100 list, first of all, I would think about my husband. And 10 things, I would get specific. Grateful for his provision. Grateful for support, for his sense of humor, for his hot, fit body. You know, I’d just go down all the things, right? And then every day I’m grateful for my home, for my physical abilities, for my flexibility, my mobility. You’re just in a different frame of mind. And anyone can get there if they choose to do an exercise or a prompt that shifts them from their current circumstance. And that’s why I’m most passionate about empowering people that they truly can design their life utilizing these tools. Naviere Walkewicz 49:47 Can you share an example when you’ve seen someone that was maybe in that season…   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 49:53 What kind of season? Negative season?   Naviere Walkewicz 49:54 In the negative season. And how going through some of these, kind of, wellness check-ins or activities — what did it allow them to do? What did it open on the other side that changed for them with your help?   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 50:06 OK, so, one example would be we have social media; we have digital devices. And we can easily… Everything is about habit management and that’s one thing I would tell people to do, you know? If you were to take inventory, look at how you live your life every day, and if you were to put every single action you did down as a habit — brush your teeth is a habit. Stop by and grab the Diet Coke is a habit. Sit down on the couch to watch TV is a habit. If you put it in a category of what serves you; what doesn’t serve you. You know, one of the most…      Naviere Walkewicz 50:41 So first list out all your habits and categorize them?   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 50:43 Right, right. So then you would recognize, “Oh my goodness. I have a habit of scrolling Instagram. Or social media.” And then you ask yourself how much time do you spend doing that. “Oh, I get caught up in a loophole of 30 to 45 minutes. And then what are you consuming? You know, so let’s say the things that have happened in the last couple of weeks, you know, say something negative happens in society that’s getting a lot of public attention and you’re just ina rabbit hole reading about that incident over and over and over again. And when you’re done scrolling, the question is, “How do you feel after that activity?” And most people would say, “I feel tense. I feel angry. I feel disappointed.” They list off all of these negative feelings. And so what I do is I help them realize, “OK, so does that serve you? Because you were in this negative health space, when you went to dinner with your family or when you went into this next assignment, how did you show up? How did you perform?” And then they realize, “Oh, wow. Not very well. I treated my wife like crap because I was irritable.” And so then you go back again. Your experience… We leave clues with how we’re living our lives. So then you go back and you realize, “That is a habit I need to change.  And I just need to make a decision, and I have to have a compelling reason. So let's say you want to work on your marriage and you want to show up better for your spouse, but you're always showing up with negative energy because of this habit that you do right when you get home, then you can — so we just come up with a plan, and it's different for each person. You know, “What could you do that would be more positive?” “I could come home play a game with my kid, because, you know, my kid is amazing, and it makes me smile and laugh,” and you're in a good mood, you know? And this is why, if I am stressed during the day, I already know if I get exposed to my chickens, my cat, or just go outside, I'm so mesmerized by the beauty of nature. All of those things I know fill me in a positive way. And so I am very intentional and aware of when I need to shift, and I know what my go-to are. So when I work with clients, I help them discover what their database of go-tos are going to be. The first part is just helping them become more aware of when it's happening so they can decide to shift. Naviere Walkewicz 52:57 Right. So that awareness is really critical, but then the next step is probably the discipline and actually doing something about it?   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 53:07 Right. Naviere Walkewicz 53:08 How can you take the lessons that you've had in bodybuilding, and then, you know, in all of your journey to help those now move from the awareness bucket to actually…   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 53:17 To making it happen? So I think that the first goal should be consistency, not perfection, right? And I learned this the hard way as a bodybuilder, because in the beginning of my career, I hated dieting. I've always hated dieting. I love food.   Naviere Walkewicz 53:31 You and I are kindred spirits in that way.   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 53:32 I don't mind being, yes, I don't mind being on a structured, you know, meal plan. But, you know, being on a strict diet can be hard, so anytime you set a goal to do something that is difficult, you know, the first thing that I tried to do was be perfect. So I would hire a coach, and my nutritionist would tell me, “This is what you're supposed to eat for meal one, two, three, four, exactly down to the macros. And maybe I would do great for three days. And then, you know, I would fail. I would cheat or have something I'm not supposed to have, and I would feel so bad again. Going back to a lot of these principles are coming back up. I was letting the failure identified me as a bad person, so now I'm feeling shame, and that's making me feel discouraged. And I kept doing this thing, like, “Well, I blew it, so I'm just gonna take the whole day off.” Like, how dumb is that, right? Like, there's four more meals you can eat and you're just gonna sabotage the rest of the four. So think about if I did that every day. So if you messed up every day and you sabotage three out of the six meals every single day, where would you be at the end of the week?   Naviere Walkewicz 54:31 Worse off. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 54:32 Fat. [Laughs] No, I'm just kidding,   Naviere Walkewicz 54:33 Worse off than you were when you started.   Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 54:35 You would be, with no results.   Naviere Walkewicz 54:37 No more Oreos in the house so you wouldn’t have to worry about eating them anymore. Tanji Johnson Bridgeman 54:40 So that's when I realized, “Oh, I'm getting caught up with perfection, and that's causing me to sabotage.” So then I changed. I said 80/20, 90/10, I just want to be consistent. And so when you fail, you know you give yourself that grace, right? And so I always like to say courage, grit and grace. You have to have the courage to do something uncomfortable, the grit to endure and then the grace to embrace when you've messed up and then move forward. And so the first thing I would do with wellness habits is, you know, you build one habit at a time, and you do what you can to be consistent, and when you fail, again, here's that theme, you t

Leading at the Edge of Innovation - Col. (Ret.) Mike Ott ’85

The path to progressing as a leader isn’t always linear. SUMMARY Col. (Ret.) Mike Ott shows how a childhood dream can evolve into a lifetime of impact—from commanding in uniform to leading innovation in healthcare and national defense. Hear more on Long Blue Leadership. Listen now!   SHARE THIS PODCAST LINKEDIN [https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/leading-at-the-edge-of-innovation-mike-ott-85/?token=066c8f253a77f7bbd9a58b6e16b6f9de]  |  FACEBOOK [https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A//www.longblueleadership.org/e/leading-at-the-edge-of-innovation-mike-ott-85/?token=066c8f253a77f7bbd9a58b6e16b6f9de]   MIKE'S LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS * A leader worth his or her salt should be comfortable not being the smartest person in the room. * Striving for a lack of hubris is essential in leadership. * Setting a clear vision is a fundamental leadership skill. * Moving people without authority is crucial for effective leadership. * Resource management is key to achieving organizational goals. * Acknowledging what you don't know is a strength in leadership. * Effective leaders focus on guiding their teams rather than asserting dominance. * Leadership is about influencing and inspiring others. * A successful mission requires collaboration and shared vision. * True leadership is about empowering others to succeed.   CHAPTERS 00:00: Early Inspiration 06:32: Academy Years 13:17: Military Career Transition 21:33: Financial Services Journey 31:29: MOBE and Healthcare Innovation 40:12: Defense Innovation Unit 48:42: Philanthropy and Community Impact 58:11: Personal Growth and Leadership Lessons   ABOUT MIKE OTT BIO Mike Ott is the Chief Executive Officer of MOBĒ, a U.S.-based company focused on whole-person health and care-management solutions. He became CEO in April 2022, taking the helm to lead the company through growth and operational excellence following a distinguished career in both the military and corporate sectors.  A graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, Mike served as a Colonel in the U.S. Air Force Reserves before shifting into financial services and healthcare leadership roles including private wealth management at U.S. Bank and executive positions with UnitedHealth Group/Optum. His leadership ethos emphasizes alignment, acceleration, and human potential, building cultures where teams can thrive and leveraging data-driven models to improve health outcomes.   CONNECT WITH MIKE LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/ottmike/] MOBE [https://www.mobeforlife.com/] CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org [socialmedia@usafa.org] Ted Robertson | Producer:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org [Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org]    <---> Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org [Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org]  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org [Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org] Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org [Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org]      ALL PAST LBL EPISODES [https://www.longblueleadership.org/]  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS [https://www.podbean.com/podcast-network/longbluelinepodcast] AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     OUR SPEAKERS Guest, Col. (Ret.) Mike Ott ’85  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99   FULL TRANSCRIPT Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 A quick programming note before we begin this episode of Long Blue Leadership: This episode will be audio-only, so sit back and enjoy the listen. Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, the podcast where we share insights on leadership through the lives and experiences of Air Force Academy graduates. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of ’99. Today, on Long Blue Leadership, we welcome Col. (Ret.) Mike Ott, Class of 1985, a leader whose vision was sparked at just 9 years old during a family road trip past the Air Force Academy. That childhood dream carried him through a 24-year Air Force career, culminating in retirement as a colonel and into a life of leadership across business, innovation and philanthropy. Mike is the CEO of MOBE, a groundbreaking company that uses data analytics and a revolutionary pay-for-results model to improve health outcomes while reducing costs. He also serves as a senior adviser to the Defense Innovation Unit, supporting the secretary of defense in accelerating commercial innovation for national security. A member of the Forbes Councils, Mike shares his expertise with leaders around the world. A former Falcon Foundation trustee and longtime supporter of the Academy, Mike has given generously his time, talents and resources to strengthen the Long Blue Line. His story is one of innovation and service in uniform, in the marketplace and in his community. Mike, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. We're so glad to have you here.   Mike Ott 1:29 Naviere, thanks a ton. I'm glad to be here. Naviere Walkewicz 1:31 Yes, yes. Well, we're really excited. I mean, you're here for your 40th reunion.   Mike Ott 1:35 Yeah, it’s crazy.   Naviere Walkewicz1:37 You came right in, and we're so pleased that you would join us here first for this podcast.   Mike Ott 1:39 Right on. Thanks for the time.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:41 Absolutely. Well, let's jump right in, because not many people can say at 9 years old they know what they want to do when they grew up, but you did. Mike Ott 1:48 Yeah. I guess some people can say it; might not be true, but for me, it's true, good or bad. And goodness gracious, right? Here for my 40th reunion, do the math team, and as a 9-year-old, that was 1972, And a lot was going on in the world in 1972 whether it was political unrest, Vietnam and all of that, and the Academy was in the thick of it. And so we had gone — It was our first significant family vacation. My father was a Chicago policeman. We drove in the 1968 Buick LaSabre, almost straight through. Stopped, stayed at a Holiday Inn, destination Colorado, simply, just because nobody had ever seen the mountains before. That was why. And we my parents, mom, mom and dad took myself. I have two younger sisters, Pikes Peak, Academy, Garden of the Gods, Royal Gorge. And I remember noon meal formation, and the bell going off. Guys at the time — we hadn't had women as cadets at that point in time — running out in their flight suits as I recall lining up ready to go. And for me, it was the energy, right, the sense of, “Wow, this is something important.” I didn't know exactly how important it was, but I knew it was important, and I could envision even at that age, there was they were doing good, Naviere Walkewicz 3:21 Wow. Nine years old, your family went on vacation, and it just struck you as this is important and something that I want to do. So what did that conversation look like after that experience that you had as a 9-year-old and kind of manifest this in yourself? How did that go with your parents? Mike Ott 3:36 Well, I didn't say too much about it, as I was in grammar school, but as high school hit, you know, I let my folks know what my plans were, and I had mom and dad — my mother’s still alive, my father passed about a year ago. Very, very good, hard-working, ethical people, but hadn't gone to college, and we had been told, “Look, you know, you need to get an education.” They couldn't. I wish they had. They were both very, very, very bright, and so I knew college was a plan. I also knew there wasn't a lot of money to pay for it. So I'm certain that that helped bake in a few things. But as I got into high school, I set my sights. I went to public high school in Chicago, and I remember freshman year walking into my counselor’s office, and said, “I want to go to the Air Force Academy,” and he kind of laughed.   Naviere Walkewicz 3:21 Really?   Mike Ott 3:22 Well, we had 700 kids in my class, and maybe 40% went on to college, right? And the bulk of them went to community college or a state school. I can count on one hand the number of folks that went to an academy or an Ivy League school or something of that. So it was it was around exposure. It had nothing to do with intelligence. It was exposure and just what these communities were accustomed to. A lot of folks went into the trades and pieces like that. So my counselor’s reaction wasn't one of shock or surprise insofar as that's impossible. It was, “We haven't had a lot of people make that commitment this early on, and I'm glad to help.”   Naviere Walkewicz 5:18 Oh, I love that.   Mike Ott 5:19 Which is wonderful, and what I had known at the time, Mr. Needham...   Naviere Walkewicz 5:23 You Remember his name?   Mike Ott 5:24 Yeah, he was in the Navy Reserves. He was an officer, so he got the joke. He got the joke and helped me work through what classes to take, how to push myself. I didn't need too much guidance there. I determined, “Well, I've got to distinguish myself.” And I like to lean in. I like a headwind, and I don't mind a little bit of an uphill battle, because once you get up there, you feel great. I owe an awful lot to him. And, not the superintendent, but the principal of our school was a gentleman named Sam Ozaki, and Sam was Japanese American interned during World War II as a young man, got to of service age and volunteered and became a lieutenant in the Army and served in World War II in Europe, right, not in Asia. So he saw something in me. He too became an advocate. He too became someone that sought to endorse, support or otherwise guide me. Once I made that claim that I was going to go to the Academy. Naviere Walkewicz 6:30 Wow. So you mentioned something that really stuck with me. You said, you know, you didn't mind kind of putting yourself out there and doing the hard things, because you knew when you got to the top it was going to feel really great. Was that something you saw from your father? Was that something, there are key leaders in your life that emulated that? Or is that just something that you always had in yourself? Mike Ott 6:51 I would say there's certainly an environmental element to it — how I was raised, what I was exposed to, and then juxtaposition as to what I observed with other family members or other parts of the community where things didn't work out very well, right? And, you know, I put two and two together. y father demonstrated, throughout his entire career what it means to have a great work ethic. As did mom and, you know, big, tough Chicago cop for 37 years. But the other thing that I learned was kindness, and you wouldn't expect to learn that from the big, tough Chicago cop, but I think it was environment, observing what didn't occur very often and how hard work, if I apply myself, can create outcomes that are going to be more fulfilling for me. Naviere Walkewicz 7:48 Wow, you talked about kindness. How did you see kindness show up in your journey as a cadet at the Air Force Academy? Or did you? Mike Ott 7:58 Yeah, gosh, so I remember, started in June of 1981, OK, and still connected with many of the guys and women that with whom I went to basic training and all that. The first moment of kindness that I experienced that it was a mutual expression, but one where I recognized, “Wow, every one of us is new here. None of us has a real clue.” We might have some idea because we had somebody had a sibling or a mother that was in the military or father that went to the academy at the time, but none of us really knew, right? We were knuckleheads, right? Eighteen years old. Maybe there were a couple of prior-enlisted folks. I don't recall much of that, but I having gone to a public high school in Chicago, where we had a variety of different ethnicities. I learned how to just understand people for who they are, meet them for who they are, and respect every individual. That's how I was raised, and that's how I exhibited myself, I sought to conduct myself in high school. So I get to the Academy, and you're assigned, you know, the first couple three nights, the first few weeks before you go to Jacks Valley, you're assigned. It was all a alphabetical, and my roommate was an African American fellow named Kevin Nixon. All right, my God, Kevin Nixon, and this guy, he was built. I mean, he was rock solid, right? And he had that 1000-yard stare, right? Very intimidating. And I'm this, like, 6-foot-tall, 148-pound runner, like, holy dork, right? And I'm assigned — we're roommates, and he just had a very stoicism, or a stoic nature about him. And I remember, it was our second night at the Academy, maybe first night, I don't quite recall, and we're in bed, and it's an hour after lights out, and I hear him crying, and like, well, what do you do? Like, we're in this together. It was that moment, like we're both alone, but we're not right. He needs to know that he's not alone. So I walked around and went over his bed, and I said, “Hey, man, I miss my mom and dad too. Let's talk. And we both cried, right? And I'll tell you what, he and I were pals forever. It was really quite beautiful. And what didn't happen is he accepted my outreach, right? And he came from a very difficult environment, one where I'm certain there was far more racial strife than I had experienced in Chicago. He came from Norfolk, Virginia, and he came from — his father worked in the shipyards and really, really tough, tough, tough background. He deserved to be the Academy. He was a great guy, very bright, and so we became friends, and I tried to be kind. He accepted that kindness and reciprocated in ways where he created a pretty beautiful friendship. Naviere Walkewicz 7:48 Oh, my goodness. Thank you for sharing that story. And you got me in the feels a little bit, because I remember those nights, even you know me having family members that went through the Academy. There's just something about when you're in it yourself, and in that moment, it’s raw.   Mike Ott 11:13 Raw is a good word. Naviere Walkewicz 11:15 Oh, thank you for that. So you're at the Academy and you end up doing 24 years. I don't mean to, like, mash all that into one sentence, but let's talk… Mike Ott 11:22 I didn’t do very much. It was the same year repeated 24 times over. Like, not a very good learner, right? Not a very good learner. Naviere Walkewicz 11:30 Yeah, I was gonna ask, you know, in that journey, because, had you planned to do a career in the Air Force? Mike Ott 11:36 Well, I didn't know, right? I went in, eyes wide open, and my cumulative time in the Air Force is over 24 but it was only it was just shy of seven active duty, and then 22, 23, in the Reserves, right? I hadn't thought about the Reserves, but I had concluded, probably at the, oh, maybe three-year mark that I wanted to do other things. It had nothing to do with disdain, a sense of frustration or any indignation, having gone to the Academy, which I'm very, very proud of, and it meant an awful lot to who I am. But it was, “Wait, this is, this is my shot, and I'm going to go try other things.” I love ambiguity, I’m very curious. Have a growth mindset and have a perhaps paradoxical mix of being self-assured, but perhaps early on, a bit too, a bit too, what's the word I was thinking of? I wrote this down — a bit too measured, OK, in other words, risk taking. And there were a few instances where I realized, “Hey, man, dude, take some risk. What's the downside? And if it isn't you, who else?” So it was that mindset that helped me muscle through and determine that, coupled with the fact that the Air Force paid for me to go to graduate school, they had programs in Boston, and so I got an MBA, and I did that at night. I had a great commander who let me take classes during the day when I wasn't traveling. It was wonderful. It was there that I was exposed to elements of business and in financial services, which ultimately drew me into financial services when I separated from active duty. Naviere Walkewicz 13:17 Well, I love that, because first you talked about a commander that saw, “How can I help you be your best version of yourself?” And I think the other piece of financial service, because I had to dabble in that as well — the second word is service. And so you've never stopped serving in all the things that you've done. So you took that leap, that risk. Is that something that you felt developed while you're at the Academy, or it's just part of your ethos. Mike Ott 13:41 It developed. It matured. I learned how to apply it more meaningfully at the Academy after a couple, three moments, where I realized that I can talk a little bit about mentoring and then I can come back to that, but mentoring — I don't know, I don't recall having heard that term as a mechanism for helping someone develop. I'm sure we used it when I was a cadet at the Academy and out of the Academy, and having been gone through different programs and banking and different graduate programs, the term comes up an awful lot. You realize, wow, there's something there helping the next generation, but also the reciprocity of learning from that generation yourself. I didn't really understand the whole mentoring concept coming out of Chicago and getting here, and just thought things were very hierarchical, very, very command structure, and it was hit the standards or else. And that that's not a bad mindset, right? But it took me a little while to figure out that there's a goodness factor that comes with the values that we have at the Academy, and it's imbued in each one of you know, service excellence, all of those pieces. But for the most part, fellow cadets and airmen and women want to help others. I mean, it's in service. It's in our DNA. Man that blew right past me. I had no idea, and I remember at one point I was entering sophomore year, and I was asked to be a glider instructor. I'd done the soaring and jumping program over the summer, and like, “Hey, you know you're not too bad at glider. You want to be an instructor?” At the time, that was pretty big deal, yeah, glider instructors. Like, “Yeah, no, I'm not going to do that, you know? I’ve got to study. Like, look at my GPA.” That didn't really matter. “And I'm going to go up to Boulder and go chase women.” Like, I was going to meet women, right? So, like, but I didn't understand that, that that mechanism, that mentoring mechanism, isn't always bestowed upon a moment or a coupling of individuals. There are just good people out there that see goodness in others that want to help them through that. I had no clue, but that was a turning point for me.   Naviere Walkewicz 15:56 Because you said no.   Mike Ott 15:58 I said no, right? And it was like what, you know, a couple months later, I remember talking with somebody like, “Yep, swing and a miss,” right? But after that, it changed how I was going to apply this self-assuredness, not bravado, but willingness to try new things, but with a willingness to be less measured. Why not? Trust the system. Trust the environment that you're in, the environment that we're in, you were in, I was in, that we're representing right now, it is a trusted environment. I didn't know that. And there were a lot of environments when I was being raised, they weren't trusted environments. And so you have a sort of mental callous mindset in many ways, and that that vigilance, that sense of sentinel is a good protection piece, but it prevents, it prevents... It doesn't allow for the membrane to be permeated, right? And so that trust piece is a big deal. I broke through after that, and I figured it out, and it helped me, and it helped me connect a sense of self-assuredness to perhaps being less measured, more willing to take ambiguity. You can be self-assured but not have complete belief in yourself, OK? And it helped me believe in myself more. I still wish I'd have been glider instructor. What a knucklehead. My roommate wound up becoming one. Like, “You, son of a rat, you.”   Naviere Walkewicz 17:29 So tell me, when did the next opportunity come up where you said yes, and what did that look like in your journey? Mike Ott 17:36 I was a lieutenant. I was a lieutenant, and I was looking for a new role. I was stationed at Hanscom Field, and I was working at one program office, and I bumped — I was the athletic officer for the base with some other folks, and one of the colonels was running a different program, and he had gotten to know me and understand how I operated, what I did, and he said, “Hey, Ott, I want you to come over to my program.” And I didn't know what the program was, but I trusted him, and I did it blindly. I remember his name, Col. Holy Cross. And really good guy. And yeah, I got the tap on the shoulder. Didn't blink. Didn't blink. So that was just finishing up second lieutenant. Naviere Walkewicz 18:26 What a lesson. I mean, something that stuck with you as a cadet, and not that it manifested in regret, but you realized that you missed that opportunity to grow and experience and so when it came around again, what a different… So would you say that as you progress, then you know, because at this point you're a lieutenant, you know, you took on this new role, what did you learn about yourself? And then how did that translate to the decision to move from active duty to the Reserve and into… Mike Ott 18:56 You'll note what I didn't do when I left active duty was stay in the defense, acquisition, defense engineering space. I made a hard left turn…   Naviere Walkewicz 19:13 Intentionally.   Mike Ott 19:14 Intentionally. And went into financial services. And that is a hard left turn away from whether it's military DOD, military industrial complex, working for one of the primes, or something like that. And my mindset was, “If I'm not the guy in the military making the decision, setting strategy and policy…” Like I was an O-3. Like, what kind of policy am I setting? Right? But my point was, if I'm not going to, if I may, if I decided to not stay in the military, I wasn't going to do anything that was related to the military, right, like, “Let's go to green pastures. Set myself apart. Find ways to compete…” Not against other people. I don't think I need to beat the hell out of somebody. I just need to make myself better every day. And that's the competition that I just love, and I love it  it's greenfield unknown. And why not apply my skills in an area where they haven't been applied and I can learn? So as an active-duty person — to come back and answer your question — I had worked some great bosses, great bosses, and they would have career counseling discussions with me, and I was asked twice to go to SOS in-residence. I turned it down, you know, as I knew. And then the third time my boss came to me. He's like, “OK, what are you doing? Idiot. Like, what are you doing?” That was at Year 5. And I just said, “Hey, sir, I think I'm going to do something different.” Naviere Walkewicz 20:47 Didn’t want to take the slot from somebody else.   Mike Ott 20:49 That's right. Right. And so then it was five months, six months later, where I put in my papers. I had to do a little more time because of the grad school thing, which is great. And his commander, this was a two-star that I knew as well, interviewed me and like, one final, like, “What are you doing?” He's like, “You could have gone so far in the Air Force.” And I looked at the general — he was a super-good dude. I said, “What makes you think I'm not going to do well outside of the Air Force?” And he smiled. He's like, “Go get it.” So we stayed in touch. Great guy. So it had nothing to do with lack of fulfillment or lack of satisfaction. It had more to do with newness, curiosity, a challenge in a different vein. Naviere Walkewicz 21:30 So let's walk into that vein. You entered into this green pasture. What was that experience like? Because you've just been in something so structured. And I mean, would you say it was just structured in a different way? Mike Ott 21:48 No, not structured. The industry… So, I separated, tried an engineering job for about eight months. Hated it. I was, I was development engineer at Ford Motor Company, great firm. Love the organization, bored stiff, right? Just not what I wanted to do, and that's where I just quit. Moved back to Chicago, where I'm from, and started networking and found a role with an investment bank, ABN AMRO, which is a large Dutch investment bank that had begun to establish itself in the United States. So their headquarters in Chicago and I talked fast enough where somebody took a bet on me and was brought into the investment banking arm where I was on the capital markets team and institutional equities. So think of capital markets, and think of taking companies public and distributing those shares to large institutions, pensions funds, mutual funds, family offices.   Naviere Walkewicz 22:48 So a lot of learning and excitement for you.   Mike Ott 22:51 Super fun. And so the industry is very structured. How capital is established, capital flows, very regulated. We've got the SEC, we've got the FDIC, a lot of complex regulations and compliance matters. That's very, very, very structured. But there was a free-wheelingness in the marketplace. And if you've seen Wolf of Wall Street and things like that, some of that stuff happened. Crazy! And I realized that with my attitude, sense of placing trust in people before I really knew them, figuring that, “OK, what's the downside? I get nipped in the fan once, once or twice. But if I can thrust trust on somebody and create a relationship where they're surprised that I've trusted them, it's probably going to build something reciprocal. So learn how to do that.” And as a young fellow on the desk, wound up being given more responsibility because I was able to apply some of the basic tenets of leadership that you learned and I learned at the Academy. And face it, many of the men and women that work on Wall Street or financial services simply haven't gone to the Academy. It's just, it's the nature of numbers — and don't have that experience. They have other experiences. They have great leadership experiences, but they don't have this. And you and I may take it for granted because we were just four years of just living through it. It oozed in every moment, every breath, every interaction, every dialog, it was there.But we didn't know it was being poured in, sprinkled across as being showered. We were being showered in it. But I learned how to apply that in the relationships that I built, knowing that the relationships that I built and the reputation that I built would be lasting and impactful and would be appropriate investments for the future endeavors, because there's always a future, right? So it wasn't… again, lot of compliance, lot of regulations, but just the personalities. You know, I did it for the challenge, right? I did it because I was curious. I did it because I wanted to see if I could succeed at it. There were other folks that did it simply because it was for the money. And many, some of them made it. They might have sold their soul to get there. Some didn't make it. Maybe it wasn't the right pursuit for them in the first place. And if I go back to mentoring, which we talked about a little bit, and I help young men and women, cadets or maybe even recent grads, my guidance to them is, don't chase the money, chase the environment, right? And chase the environment that allows you to find your flow and contribute to that environment. The money will come. But I saw it — I've seen it with grads. I've seen it with many of the folks that didn't make it in these roles in financial services, because I thought, “Hey, this is where the money is.” It might be. But you have to go back to the basis of all this. How are you complected? What are your values? Do they align with the environment that you're in? And can you flow in a way where your strengths are going to allow success to happen and not sell your soul? Naviere Walkewicz 26:26 Yeah, you said two things that really stood out to me in that —the first one was, you know, trusting, just starting from a place of trust and respect, because the opportunity to build a relationship faster, and also there's that potential for future something. And then the second thing is the environment and making sure it aligns with your values. Is that how you got to MOBE? Mike Ott 26:50 Yeah, I would say how I got to MOBE, that certainly was a factor. Good question.   Naviere Walkewicz 26:57 The environment, I feel, is very much aligned Mike Ott 27:00 Very much so and then… But there's an element of reputation and relationship that allowed me to get there. So now I'm lucky to be a part of this firm. We're 250 people. We will do $50 million of revenue. We're growing nicely. I've been in health care for four years. Now, we are we're more than just healthcare. I mean, it's deep data. We can get into some of that later, but I had this financial services background. I was drawn to MOBE, but I had established a set of relationships with people at different investment banks, with other families that had successfully built businesses and just had relationships. And I was asked to come on to the board because MOBE, at the time, great capabilities, but struggled with leadership during COVID. Lot of companies did. It's not an indictment as to the prior CEO, but he and the team struggled to get through COVID. So initially I was approached to come on to the board, and that was through the founders of the firm who had known me for 20 years and knew my reputation, because I'd done different things at the investment bank, I'd run businesses at US Bank, which is a large commercial bank within the country, and they needed someone that… They cared very little about health care experience, which is good for me, and it was more around a sense of leadership. They knew my values. They trusted me. So initially I was asked to come onto the board, and that evolved into, “No, let's just do a whole reset and bring you on as the CEO.” Well, let's go back to like, what makes me tick. I love ambiguity. I love a challenge. And this has been a bit of a turnaround in that great capabilities, but lost its way in COVID, because leadership lost its way. So there's a lot of resetting that needed to occur. Corpus of the firm, great technology, great capabilities, but business model adaptation, go to market mechanisms and, frankly, environment. Environment. But I was drawn to the environment because of the people that had founded the organization. The firm was incubated within a large pharmaceutical firm. This firm called Upsher-Smith, was a Minnesota firm, the largest private and generic pharmaceutical company in the country, and sold for an awful lot of money, had been built by this family, sold in 2017 and the assets that are MOBE, mostly data, claims, analysis capabilities stayed separate, and so they incubated that, had a little bit of a data sandbox, and then it matriculated to, “Hey, we've got a real business here.” But that family has a reputation, and the individuals that founded it, and then ultimately found MOBE have a reputation. So I was very comfortable with the ambiguity of maybe not knowing health care as much as the next guy or gal, but the environment I was going into was one where I knew this family and these investors lived to high ethical standards, and there's many stories as to how I know that, but I knew that, and that gave me a ton of comfort. And then it was, “We trust you make it happen. So I got lucky. Naviere Walkewicz 30:33 Well, you're, I think, just the way that you're wired and the fact that you come from a place of trust, obviously, you know, OK, I don't have the, you know, like the medical background, but there are a lot of experts here that I'm going to trust to bring that expertise to me. And I'm going to help create an environment that they can really thrive in. Mike Ott 30:47 I'm certain many of our fellow alum have been in this experience, had these experiences where a leader worth his or her salt should be comfortable not being the smartest gal or guy in the room. In fact, you should strive for that to be the case and have a sense of lack of hubris and proudly acknowledge what you don't know. But what I do know is how to set vision. What I do know is how to move people without authority. What I do know is how to resource. And that's what you do if you want to move a mission, whether it's in the military, small firm like us that's getting bigger, or, you know, a big organization. You can't know it all. Naviere Walkewicz 31:30 So something you just mentioned that I think a lot of our listeners would really like, would love a little bit to peel us back a little bit. You said, “I know how to set a vision. I know how to…” I think it was move…   Mike Ott 31:45 Move people without authority and prioritize.   Naviere Walkewicz 31:47 But can we talk a little bit about that? Because I think that is really a challenge that some of our you know younger leaders, or those early in their leadership roles struggle with. Maybe, can you talk a little bit about that? Mike Ott 32:01 For sure, I had some — again, I tried to do my best to apply all the moments I had at the Academy and the long list of just like, “What were you thinking?” But the kindness piece comes through and… Think as a civilian outside looking in. They look at the military. It's very, very, very structured, OK, but the best leaders the men and women for whom you and I have served underneath or supported, never once barked an order, OK? They expressed intent, right? And you and I and all the other men and women in uniform, if we were paying attention, right, sought to execute the mission and satisfaction of that intent and make our bosses’ bosses’ jobs easier. That's really simple. And many outsiders looking in, we get back to just leadership that are civilians. They think, “Oh my gosh, these men and women that are in the military, they just can't assimilate. They can't make it in the civilian world.” And they think, because we come from this very, very hierarchical organization, yes, it is very hierarchical — that's a command structure that's necessary for mission execution — but the human part, right? I think military men and women leaders are among the best leaders, because guess what? We're motivating men and women — maybe they get a pat on the back. You didn't get a ribbon, right? Nobody's getting a year-end bonus, nobody's getting a spot bonus, nobody's getting equity in the Air Force, and it's gonna go public, right? It's just not that. So the best men and women that I for whom I've worked with have been those that have been able to get me to buy in and move and step up, and want to demonstrate my skills in coordination with others, cross functionally in the organization to get stuff done. And I think if there's anything we can remind emerging graduates, you know, out of the Academy, is: Don't rely on rank ever. Don't rely on rank. I had a moment: I was a dorky second lieutenant engineer, and we were launching a new system. It was a joint system for Marines, Navy and Air Force, and I had to go from Boston to Langley quite often because it was a TAC-related system, Tactical Air Force-related system. And the I was the program manager, multi-million dollar program for an interesting radio concept. And we were putting it into F-15s, so in some ground-based situations. And there was this E-8, crusty E-8, smoked, Vietnam, all these things, and he was a comms dude, and one of the systems was glitching. It just wasn't working, right? And we were getting ready to take this thing over somewhere overseas. And he pulls alongside me, and it's rather insubordinate, but it was a test, right? He's looking at me, Academy guy, you know, second lieutenant. He was a master sergeant, and he's like, “Well, son, what are we going to do now?” In other words, like, “We're in a pickle. What are we going to do now?” But calling me son. Yeah, it's not appropriate, right? If I'd have been hierarchical and I'd relied on rank, I probably would have been justified to let him have it. Like, that's playing short ball, right? I just thought for a second, and I just put my arm around him. I said, “Gee, Dad, I was hoping you're gonna help me.” And mother rat, we figured it out, and after that, he was eating out of my hand. So it was a test, right? Don't be afraid to be tested but don't take the bait. Naviere Walkewicz 35:46 So many good just lessons in each of these examples. Can you share a time at MOBE when you've seen someone that has been on your team that has demonstrated that because of the environment you've created? Mike Ott 35:57 For sure. So I've been running the firm now for about three and a half years. Again, have adapted and enhanced our capabilities, changed the business model a bit, yet functioning in our approach to the marketplace remains the same. We help people get better, and we get paid based on the less spend they have in the system. Part of some of our principles at MOBE are pretty simple, like, eat, sleep, move, smile, all right. And then be thoughtful with your medication. We think that medicine is an aid, not a cure. Your body's self-healing and your mind controls your body.   Naviere Walkewicz 36:32 Eat, sleep, move, smile. Love that.   Mike Ott 36:35 So what's happening with MOBE, and what I've seen is the same is true with how I've altered our leadership team. I've got some amazing leaders — very, very, very accomplished. But there are some new leaders because others just didn't fit in. There wasn't the sense of communal trust that I expected. There was too much, know-it-all’ing going on, right? And I just won't have that. So the easiest way to diffuse that isn't about changing head count, but it's around exhibiting vulnerability in front of all these folks and saying, “Look, I don't know that, but my lead pharmacist here, my lead clinician here, helped me get through those things.” But I do have one leader right, who is our head of vice president of HR, a woman who grew up on a farm in southern Minnesota, who has come to myself and our president and shared that she feels liberated at MOBE because, though this firm is larger than one that she served as a director of HR, previously, she's never had to look — check her six, look right, look left and seek alignment to ensure she's harmonizing with people. Naviere Walkewicz 37:49 Can you imagine being in an environment like that? Mike Ott 38:51 It's terrible, it's toxic, and it's wrong. Leaders, within the organization, I think you're judged more by what you don't do and the actions that you don't take. You can establish trust, and you will fortify that trust when you share with the team as best you can, so long as it’s nothing inappropriate, where you made a mistake, where we went wrong. What did we learn from that? Where are we going to pivot? How we're going to apply that learning to make it better, as opposed to finding blame, pointing the finger or not even acknowledging? That happens all the time, and that toxicity erodes. And regretfully, my VP of HR in prior roles experienced that, and I don't have time. Good teams shouldn't have time to rehearse the basic values of the firm. We don't have time the speed of business is like this [snaps]. So if I can build the team of men and women that trust one another, can stay in their lanes, but also recognize that they're responsible for helping run the business, and look over at the other lanes and help their fellow leaders make adjustments without the indictful comment or without sort of belittling or shaming. That's what good teams, do. You, and I did that in the Air Force, but it is not as common as you would think. Naviere Walkewicz 39:11 20 we've been talking about MOBE, and you know, the environment you're creating there, and just the way that you're working through innovation. Let's talk a little bit how you're involved with DIU, the Defense Innovation Unit. Mike Ott 39:21 Again, it's reputation in relationships. And it was probably 2010, I get a call from a fellow grad, ’87 grad who was living in the Beltway, still in uniform. He was an O-5 I was an O-5. Just doing the Academy liaison work, helping good young men and women that wanted to go to the Academy get in. And that was super satisfying, thought that would be the end of my Reserve career and super fun. And this is right when the first Obama administration came in, and one of his edicts and his admin edicts was, we've got to find ways to embrace industry more, right? We can't rely on the primes, just the primes. So those were just some seeds, and along with a couple other grads, created what is now called Joint Reserve Directorate, which was spawned DIUX, which was DIU Experimental, is spawned from. So I was the owner for JRD, and DIUX as a reserve officer. And that's how we all made colonel is we were working for the chief technology officer of the Defense Department, the Hon. Zach Lemnios, wonderful fellow. Civilian, didn't have much military experience, but boy, the guy knew tech — semiconductors and areas like that. But this was the beginning of the United States recognizing that our R&D output, OK, in the aggregate, as a fund, as a percentage of GDP, whether it's coming out of the commercial marketplace or the military DoD complex, needs to be harnessed against the big fight that we have with China. We can see, you know, we've known about that for 30 years. So this is back 14 years ago. And the idea was, let's bring in men and women — there was a woman in our group too that started this area — and was like, “How do we create essential boundary span, boundary spanners, or dual-literacy people that are experiences in capital markets, finance, how capital is accumulated, innovation occurs, but then also how that applies into supporting the warfighter. So we were given a sandbox. We were given a blank slate.   Naviere Walkewicz 41:37 It's your happy place.   Mike Ott 41:38 Oh, super awesome. And began to build out relationships at Silicon Valley with commercial entities, and developed some concepts that are now being deployed with DIU and many other people came in and brought them all to life. But I was lucky enough after I retired from the Reserves as a colonel to be asked to come back as an adviser, because of that background and that experience, the genesis of the organization. So today I'm an unpaid SGE — special government employee — to help DIU look across a variety of different domains. And so I'm sure many of our listeners know it's key areas that we've got to harness the commercial marketplace. We know that if you go back into the ’70s, ‘60s and ‘70s, and creation of the internet, GPS, precision munitions and all of that, the R&D dollars spent in the aggregate for the country, 95% came out of DOD is completely flip flopped today. Completely flipped. We happen to live in an open, free society. We hope to have capital markets and access a lot of that technology isn't burdened like it might be in China. And so that's the good and bad of this open society that we have. We've got to find ways. So we, the team does a lot of great work, and I just help them think about capital markets, money flows, threat finance. How you use financial markets to interdict, listen, see signals, but then also different technologies across cyberspace, autonomy, AI. Goodness gracious, I'm sure there's a few others. There's just so much. So I'm just an interloper that helps them think about that, and it's super fun that they think that I can be helpful. Naviere Walkewicz 43:29 Well, I think I was curious on how, because you love the ambiguity, and that's just something that fills your bucket — so while you're leading MOBE and you're creating something very stable, it sounds like DIU and being that kind of special employee, government employee, helps you to fill that need for your ambiguous side.   Mike Ott 43:48 You’re right. You're right.   Naviere Walkewicz 43:49 Yeah, I thought that's really fascinating. Well, I think it's wonderful that you get to create that and you just said, the speed of business is this [snaps]. How do you find time in your life to balance what you also put your values around — your health — when you have such an important job and taking care of so many people? Mike Ott 44:06 I think we're all pretty disciplined at the Academy, right? I remain that way, and I'm very, very — I'm spring loaded to ‘no,’ right? “Hey, do you want to go do this?” Yeah, I want to try do, I want to do a lot of things, but I'm spring loaded. So like, “Hey, you want to go out and stay, stay up late and have a drink?” “No,” right? “Do you want to do those things?” So I'm very, very regimented in that I get eight hours of sleep, right? And even somebody, even as a cadet, one of the nicknames my buddies gave me was Rip Van Ott, right? Because I'm like, “This is it.” I was a civil engineer. One of my roommates was an astro guy, and I think he pulled an all-nighter once a week.   Naviere Walkewicz 45:46 Oh, my goodness, yeah.   Mike Ott 45:50 Like, “Dude, what are you doing?” And it wasn't like he was straight As. I was clearly not straight As, but I'm like, “What are you doing? That's not helpful. Do the work ahead of time.” I think I maybe pulled three or four all-nighters my entire four years. Now, it’s reflected in my GPA. I get that, but I finished the engineering degree. But sleep matters, right? And some things are just nonnegotiable, and that is, you know, exercise, sleep and be kind to yourself, right? Don't compare. If you're going to compare, compare yourself to yesterday, but don't look at somebody who is an F-15 pilot, and you're not. Like, I'm not. My roommate, my best man at my wedding, F-15 pilot, Test Pilot School, all these things, amazing, amazing, awesome, and super, really, really, happy and proud for him, but that's his mojo; that’s his flow, right? If you're gonna do any comparison, compare yourself to the man or woman you were yesterday and “Am I better?”. Naviere Walkewicz 44:48 The power of “no” and having those nonnegotiables is really important. Mike Ott 45:53 Yeah, no, I'm not doing that. Naviere Walkewicz 45:56 I think sometimes we're wired for a “we can take on… we can take it on, we can take it on, we can take it on. We got this.” Mike Ott 46:03 For sure. Oh, my goodness. And I have that discussion with people on my team from time to time as well, and it's most often as it relates to an individual on the team that's struggling in his or her role, or whether it's by you know, if it's by omission and they're in the wrong role, that's one thing. If it's by commission, well, be a leader and execute and get that person out of there, right? That's wrong, but from time to time, it's by omission, and somebody is just not well placed. And I've seen managers, I can repatriate this person. I can get him or her there, and you have to stop for a second and tell that leader, “Yeah, I know you can. I'm certain that the only thing you were responsible for was to help that person fulfill the roles of the job that they're assigned. You could do it.” But guess what? You've got 90% of your team that needs care, nurturing and feeding. They're delivering in their function, neglect, there destroys careers, and it's going to destroy the business. So don't, don't get caught up in that. Yeah. Pack it on. Pack it on. Pack it on. You're right. When someone's in the crosshairs, I want to be in the crosshairs with you, Naviere, and Ted, and all the people that you and I affiliate with, but on the day-to-day, sustained basis, right to live, you know, to execute and be fulfilled, both in the mission, the work and stay fit, to fight and do it again. You can't. You can't. And a lot of a little bit of no goes a long way. Naviere Walkewicz 47:40 That is really good to hear. I think that's something that a lot of leaders really don't share. And I think that's really wonderful that you did. I'd like to take a little time and pivot into another area that you're heavily involved, philanthropy side. You know, you've been with the Falcon Foundation. Where did you find that intent inside of you? I mean, you always said the Academy's been part of you, but you found your way back in that space in other ways. Let's talk about that. Mike Ott 48:05 Sure. Thank you. I don't know. I felt that service is a part of me, right? And it is for all of us, whether you stay in the military or not. Part of my financial services jobs have been in wealth management. I was lucky enough to run that business for US Bank in one of my capacities, and here I am now in health care, health care of service. That aligns with wanting things to be better across any other angle. And the philanthropic, philanthropic side of things — I probably couldn't say that word when I was a cadet, but then, you know, I got out and we did different volunteer efforts. We were at Hanscom Field raising money for different organizations, and stayed with it, and always found ways to have fun with it. But recognized I couldn't… It was inefficient if I was going to be philanthropic around something that I didn't have a personal interest in. And as a senior executive at US Bank, we were all… It was tacit to the role you had roles in local foundations or community efforts. And I remember sitting down with my boss, the CFO of the bank, and then the CEO, and they'd asked me to go on to a board, and it had to do with a museum that I had no interest in, right? And I had a good enough relationship with these, with these guys, to say, “Look, I'm a good dude. I'm going to be helpful in supporting the bank. And if this is a have to, all right, I'll do it, but you got the wrong guy. Like, you want me to represent the bank passionately, you know, philanthropically, let me do this. And they're like, “OK, great.” So we pivoted, and I did other things. And the philanthropic piece of things is it's doing good. It's of service for people, entities, organizations, communities or moments that can use it. And I it's just very, very satisfying to me. So my wife and I are pretty involved that way, whether it's locally, with different organizations, lot of military support. The Academy, we're very fond of. It just kind of became a staple. Naviere Walkewicz 50:35 Did you find yourself also gravitating toward making better your community where you grew up? Mike Ott 50:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of my dear friends that grew up in the same neighborhood, he wound up going to the Naval Academy, and so we're we've been friends for 50 years. Seventh grade.   Naviere Walkewicz 50:53 Same counselor? Mike Ott50:54 Yeah, no. Different counselor, different high school. His parents had a little bit of money, and they, he wound up going to a Catholic school nearby. But great guy, and so he and I, he runs a business that serves the VA in Chicago, and I'm on the board, and we do an awful lot of work. And one of the schools we support is a school on the south side, largely African American students and helping them with different STEM projects. It's not going to hit above the fold of a newspaper, but I could give a rat, doesn’t matter to me, seeing a difference, seeing these young men and women. One of them, one of these boys, it's eye watering, but he just found out that he was picked for, he's applying to the Naval Academy, and he just found out that he got a nomination.   Naviere Walkewicz 51:44 Oh my goodness, I just got chills.   Mike Ott 51:46 And so, yeah, yeah, right, right. But it’s wonderful. And his parents had no idea anything like that even existed. So that's one that it's not terribly formal, but boy, it looks great when you see the smile on that kid and the impact on that individual, but then the impact it leaves on the community, because it's clear opportunity for people to aspire because they know this young man or this young woman, “I can do that too.” Naviere Walkewicz 52:22 Wow. So he got his nomination, and so he would start technically making class of 2030?   Mike Ott 52:27 That’s right. Naviere Walkewicz 52:28 Oh, how exciting. OK Well, that's a wonderful…   Mike Ott 52:27 I hope, I hope, yeah, he's a great kid. Naviere Walkewicz 52:33 Oh, that is wonderful. So you talk about, you know that spirit of giving — how have you seen, I guess, in your journey, because it hasn't been linear. We talked about how you know progression is not linear. How have you grown throughout these different experiences? Because you kind of go into a very ambiguous area, and you bring yourself, and you grow in it and you make it better. But how have you grown? What does that look like for you? Mike Ott 53:02 After having done it several times, right, i.e. entering the fray of an ambiguous environment business situation, I developed a better system and understanding of what do I really need to do out of the gates? And I've grown that way and learn to not be too decisive too soon. Decisiveness is a great gift. It's really, really it's important. It lacks. It lacks because there are too many people, less so in the military, that want to be known for having made… don't want to be known for having made a bad decision, so they don't take that risk. Right, right, right. And so that creates just sort of the static friction, and you've just got to have faith and so, but I've learned how to balance just exactly when to be decisive. And the other thing that I know about me is I am drawn to ambiguity. I am drawn… Very, very curious. Love to learn, try new things, have a range of interests and not very good at any one thing, but that range helps me in critical thinking. So I've learned to, depending on the situation, right, listen, listen, and then go. It isn't a formula. It's a flow, but it's not a formula. And instinct matters when to be decisive. Nature of the people with whom you're working, nature of the mission, evolution, phase of the organization or the unit that you're in. Now is the time, right? So balancing fostering decisiveness is something that that's worth a separate discussion. Naviere Walkewicz 54:59 Right. Wow. So all of these things that you've experienced and the growth that you've had personally — do you think about is this? Is this important to you at all, the idea of, what is your legacy, or is that not? Mike Ott 55:13 We talked a little bit about this beforehand, and I thought I’ve got to come up with something pithy, right? And I really, I really don't.   Naviere Walkewicz 55:18 Yeah, you don't.   Mike Ott 55:19 I don't think of myself as that. I'm very proud of who I am and what I've done in the reputation that I have built. I don't need my name up in lights. I know the life that I'm living and the life that I hope to live for a lot longer. My legacy is just my family, my children, the mark that I've left in the organizations that I have been a part of.   Naviere Walkewicz 55:58 And the communities that you've touched, like that gentleman going and getting his nomination. I'm sure.   Mike Ott 56:04 Yeah, I don't… having been a senior leader, and even at MOBE, I'm interviewed by different newspapers and all that. Like I do it because I'm in this role, and it's important for MOBE, but I'm not that full of myself, where I got to be up in lights. So I just want to be known as a man that was trustworthy, fun, tried to meet people where they are really had flaws, and sought to overcome them with the few strengths that he had, and moved everything forward. Naviere Walkewicz 56:33 Those are the kind of leaders that people will run through fire for. That's amazing. I think that's a wonderful I mean that in itself, it's like a living legacy you do every day. How can I be better than I was yesterday? And that in itself, is a bit of your living and that's really cool. Well, one of the things we like to ask is, “What is something you're doing every day to be better as a leader?” And you've covered a lot, so I mean, you could probably go back to one of those things, but is there something that you could share with our listeners that you do personally every day, to be better? Mike Ott 57:05 Exercise and read every day, every day, and except Fridays. Fridays I take… that's like, I'll stretch or just kind of go for a walk. But every day I make it a moment, you know, 45 minutes to an hour, something and better for my head, good for my body, right? That's the process in the hierarchy of way I think about it. And then read. Gen. Mattis. And I supported Gen. Mattis as a lieutenant colonel before I wanted to and stuff at the Pentagon. And he I supported him as an innovation guy for JFCOM, where he was the commander. And even back then, he was always talking about reading is leading none of us as military leaders… And I can't hold the candle to the guy, but I learned an awful lot, and I love his mindset, and that none of us can live a life long enough to take In all the leadership lessons necessary to help us drive impact. So you better be reading about it all the time. And so I read probably an hour every night, every day.   Naviere Walkewicz 58:14 What are you reading right now?   Mike Ott 58:15 Oh, man, I left it on the plane! I was so bummed. Naviere Walkewicz 58:17 Oh, that's the worst. You’re going to have to get another copy. Mike Ott 58:22 Before I came here, I ordered it from Barnes & Noble so to me at my house when I get home. Love history and reading a book by this wonderful British author named Anne Reid. And it's, I forget the title exactly, but it's how the allies at the end of World War I sought to influence Russia and overcome the Bolsheviks. They were called the interventionalists, and it was an alliance of 15 different countries, including the U.S., Britain, France, U.K., Japan, Australia, India, trying to thwart, you know, the Bolshevik Revolution — trying to thwart its being cemented. Fascinating, fascinating. So that's what I was reading until I left it on the plane today. Naviere Walkewicz 59:07 How do you choose what to read? Mike Ott 59:10 Listen, write, love history. Love to read Air Force stuff too. Just talk to friends, right? You know, they've learned how to read like me. So we get to talk and have fun with that. Naviere Walkewicz 59:22 That's great. Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, the last question I'd like to ask you, before I want to make sure you have an opportunity to cover anything we didn't, is what is something you would share with others that they can do to become better leaders? Maybe they start doing it now, so in the future, they're even stronger as a leader. Mike Ott 59:42 Two things I would say, and try to have these exist in the same breath in the same moment, is have the courage to make it try and make it better every day, all right, and be kind to yourself, be forgiving. Naviere Walkewicz 59:59 That's really powerful. Can you share an example? And I know I that's we could just leave it there, but being courageous and then being kind to yourself, they're almost on two opposite sides. Have you had, can you share an example where I guess you've done that right? You had to be you were courageous and making something better, and maybe it didn't go that way, so you have to be kind to yourself. Mike Ott 1:00:23 Yeah, happy to and I think any cadet will hear this story and go like, “Huh, wow, that's interesting.” And it also plays with the arc of progress isn't linear. I graduated in ’85 went to flight school, got halfway through flight school, and there was a RIF, reduction in force. And our class, our flight class, I was flying jets, I was soloing. I was academically — super easy, flying average, right? You know, I like to joke that I've got the fine motor skills of a ham sandwich, right? You know, but, but I didn't finish flight school. And you think about this, here it is. I started in 1981 there were still vestiges of Vietnam. Everyone's going to be a fighter pilot. Kill, kill, kill. Blood makes the grass grow. All of that was there. And I remember when this happened, it was very frustrating for me. It was mostly the major root of frustration wasn't that I wasn't finishing flight school. It was the nature by which the determination that I wasn't finishing was made. And it was, it was a financial decision. We had too many guys and gals, and they were just finding, you know, average folks and then kicking them out. So our class graduated a lower percent than, I think, in that era, it was late ’85, ’86, maybe ’87, but you can look at outflows, and it was interesting, they were making budget cuts. So there was a shaming part there, having gone to the Academy.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:02:02 And knowing since 9 years old. Mike Ott 1:20:04 Right, right, right, and I knew I wanted to go the Academy. I’d like to fly, let’s check it out and see if it’s for me. I would much rather have been not for me, had I made the decision I don't want to do this or that I was just unsafe and didn't want to do it. The way it turned out is, and this is where I learned a little bit about politics as well. In my class, again, I was very average. Like, nobody's ever going to say, like, yeah, I was going to go fly the Space Shuttle. Like, no way, right? Very, very average, but doing just fine. And a lot of guys and gals wanted to go be navigators, and that's great. I looked in the regs, and I learned this as a cadet, and it's helped me in business, too. If there's a rule, there's a waiver. Like, let me understand the regs, and I asked to go to a board. Instead of just submitting a letter to appeal, I asked to go to a board. And so I went to a board of an O-5 five, couple of threes O-4 four, and ultimately shared the essence of why I shouldn't be terminated in the program. And son of a gun, they agreed, and I still have the letter. The letter says, “Recommend Lt. Ott for reinstatement.” Nobody in my class has that letter, nobody makes the appeal. And I'm like, I'm going downstream. I'm going downstream. And that's the Chicago in me, and that's the piece about… but also move forward, but forgive yourself, and I’ll get to that. And so I, I was thrilled, My goodness, and the argument I had is, like, look, you're just not keeping me current. You put me in the sim, and then you're waiting too long to put me in the jet. The regs don't allow for that. And like, you're right. So I'm assigned to go back to the jet. My pals are thrilled. I'm going to stay in the same class. I don't have to wash back. And then I get a call from the DO’s office — director of operations — and it was from some civilian person so the DO overrode the board's decision. Heartbreaking. Heartbreaking.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:04:12 You were so high, you did all of your work. And then… Mike Ott 1:04:15 Yeah, and then heartbreaking and frustrating, and I guess the word is indignant: anger aroused through frustration. In that I figured it out. I knew exactly what's happening. I made the appeal and I won. And it wasn't I was expecting to be assigned to fly a fighter. It was like, “Just let me, let me express the merits of my capabilities. It’s how the system is designed.” The son of a gun, I jumped in my car and I ran to base and I waited and reported in. He didn't really know who I was. That's because he didn't make a decision. It was just it was that decision, and that's how life comes at you. That's just how it is. It isn't linear. So how do you take that and then say, “Well, I'm going to be kind to myself and make something out of it.” And he went through, you know, a dissertation as to why, and I asked him if I could share my views, and it's pretty candid, and I just said, If my dad were something other than the Chicago policeman, and maybe if he was a senator or general officer, I wouldn't be sitting here. That lit him up, right? That lit him up. But I had to state my views. So I knew I was out of the program. Very, very frustrating. Could have had the mayor of Chicago call. Didn't do that, right? Like, OK, I understand where this is it. That was very frustrating and somewhat shaming. But where the forgiveness comes in and be kind to yourself, is that I ran into ground. I ran into ground and drove an outcome where I still… It's a moment of integrity. I drove an outcome like, there you go. But then what do you do? Forgive yourself, right? Because you didn’t do anything wrong, OK? And you pivot. And I turned that into a moment where I started cold calling instructors at the Academy. Because, hey, now I owe the Air Force five years, Air Force is looking for, you know, things that I don't want to do. And thank goodness I had an engineering degree, and I cold called a guy at a base in Hanscom. And this is another tap on the shoulder.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:06:24 That’s how you got to Hanscom. Gotcha.   Mike Ott 1:06:27 There was a friend who was Class of ’83, a woman who was in my squadron, who was there. Great egg. And she's like, “Hey, I was at the O Club.