Cult Talk with Dr. Janja Lalich!

Embrace Ideas, not Ideologies

Ideas have fluidity; they can change and be added to, and they can be wrong, and that's fine. It's just an idea; we have thousands of them. But ideologies become rigid very quickly, and they tend to become hierarchical (they claim to be the best, such that other ideologies are not worthy), which means that the people who have signed up for them may have a very hard time taking off-ramps from them. Ideologies can also lean very cultic, because they often become transcendent belief systems, which is one of the four aspects of cultic control that make up Janja Lalich's Bounded Choice model (see episodes 3 through 6 in season 1 of this podcast). Understanding the difference between ideas and ideologies is essential if you need to take an off-ramp, or create an off-ramp for someone else. Do you have the freedom to change, to think your own thoughts, and to have your own ideas? If so, the changes you need to make might be difficult, but they won't be overwhelming. Ideas might be hard to give up, but they don't exist to entrap you. Ideologies, on the other hand, are built to be sticky and often controlling. If you or someone you know got caught up in a rigid ideology, you or they will most likely need some support to take an off-ramp, and it's important to know the difference so you know what help you need for yourself (or how you can help others). Thank you for working to create off-ramps in this time of rigid ideologies, cultic control mechanisms, intentional chaos, end-stage capitalism, and emotional (and empathic) manipulation. Your presence makes a difference. Book mentioned in this episode: Missing the Solstice by Karla McLaren: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F6TRWRBZ [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F6TRWRBZ]

What About Socialism?

Socialism is a bogeyman term for a lot of people on the right -- just as fascism is a bogeyman term for a lot of people on the left. So let's look at what socialism is, why it was developed, how it contrasts with capitalism and communism, and how it can moderate the most damaging excesses of capitalism. Many countries combine capitalism and socialism in some way. The two systems don't need to cancel each other out (in fact, they can work very well together), but if people are telling you that these two systems cannot exist together -- and that you should hate or fear socialism -- it's time to question what their end game is. There are two thriving, everyday socialist structures in the US that nearly everyone has experience with, and I explore them in this episode. An excellent book about why and how homelessness exists (it's never merely about unsupported addiction or unsupported mental health issues): Homelessness is a Housing Problem by Gregg Colburn and Clayton Page Aldern https://homelessnesshousingproblem.com/ [https://homelessnesshousingproblem.com/]

But Is This Fascism?

Here in the United States, the word "fascism" is being thrown around a great deal, and when I went to study the history of fascism, I found it being propped up by a large number of "fifteen-dollar words" that are unnecessarily complex. I also found that historians and social scientists are arguing about what fascism is -- to this day -- even though the Italian Fascist government (the original Fascists) and the related German Nazi government were defeated and removed from power by 1945. No one alive today would be silly enough to call their own power fascist power, because it's a failed approach that causes endless pain and upheaval for no good reason. So calling someone a fascist, or calling an organization or structure fascism, is simply an insult. And we can do better than that. In this episode, I look at the multiple fifteen-dollar words that make up fascism, and I also simplify them into things we already know are trouble: cultic mechanisms of control (all fascist governments rely on cultic mechanisms), and hierarchies of human worth (fascistic governments love to sort people into simple-minded good vs. evil categories). And we know what to do with those problems. We can take an off-ramp from them without the need to insult people or learn a boatload of fifteen-dollar words. Book mentioned in this episode: Escaping Utopia: Growing Up In a Cult, Getting Out, and Starting Over by Janja Lalich and Karla McLaren: https://bookshop.org/p/books/escaping-utopia-growing-up-in-a-cult-getting-out-and-starting-over-janja-lalich/59ceed42511741ff?ean=9781138239746&next=t [https://bookshop.org/p/books/escaping-utopia-growing-up-in-a-cult-getting-out-and-starting-over-janja-lalich/59ceed42511741ff?ean=9781138239746&next=t]

Cult Talk with Dr. Janja Lalich!

Dr. Janja Lalich and I talk about cults (we are both cult survivors and cult researchers) and we meander through these topics: Why people join: * The main thing that attracts people to cults is their own idealism. * Most people are recruited into cults by friends and family. * Making enemies and monsters on the outside is one way that cults keep people trapped. * Isolation is a key way that cults and abusers control people; if you're a concerned person on the outside, keep the lines of communication open if you can. * Don't argue about the cult or the leader; be a friend and include them in pleasant times to remind them of the possibilities on the outside of the cult or abusive relationship. When people leave: * Become their safe haven; don't challenge or lecture or criticize. * Let them decompress; they've been through hell and need some time to think their own thoughts. * Support them in learning more about how cults work so that they can see how they were taken in -- and how to avoid cultic control in the future. About the supposed "power" and charisma of cult leaders: * Cults are first and foremost abusive relationships, and you can leave them and heal. * Charisma and power don't live inside leaders: we give it to them, and we can take it back. * You can save money on transcendent cult-leader-inspired experiences and just take LSD instead (this is a joke, but not really). Learn more about Janja's work and find support: https://www.lalichcenter.org/ [https://www.lalichcenter.org/] Books mentioned in this episode: Bounded Choice Take Back Your Life Escaping Utopia Cults in Our Midst See them at Bookshop: https://bookshop.org/lists/the-off-ramp-project [https://bookshop.org/lists/the-off-ramp-project]

The Soothing Nature of Hatred

During a grief ritual I was teaching, I got a question about hatred on one of my YouTube videos, and it helped me see how soothing and orderly hatred can be. In a time when we're losing so much, and things feel out of control, the simple act of hating and adoring people can give us structure in an otherwise overwhelming time of chaos and loss. Idealizing and adoring our leaders -- or hating and dehumanizing them -- these polarized acts can soothe us, even though they're not healing, and will lead to mountains of loss in the long run. Grief, on the other hand, is massive, and ever-changing, and it leads us into depth and complexity -- and a profound understanding that we cannot control the world by polarizing ourselves. But if we have no practice for grief, it can be simpler to avoid it and pretend that we can control the flows of the world by sitting in hatred, idealization, polarization, hierarchies of human worth, and certainty. The practice for hatred and adoration is Shadow Work, and the practice for grief is a grief ritual in a community that can help you create some healing structure in a time of great and oceanic loss. Mentioned in this episode: Shadow Work books at Bookshop: https://bookshop.org/lists/shadow-work-4ea99124-7347-4af8-9faf-915c6a0448aa [https://bookshop.org/lists/shadow-work-4ea99124-7347-4af8-9faf-915c6a0448aa] The Language of Emotions: https://bookshop.org/lists/karla-mclaren-s-books [https://bookshop.org/lists/karla-mclaren-s-books] Braver Angels: https://braverangels.org/what-we-do/take-an-ecourse/ [https://braverangels.org/what-we-do/take-an-ecourse/] Fun with your shadow: https://karlamclaren.com/the-twisted-love-inside-hatred-revisited/ [https://karlamclaren.com/the-twisted-love-inside-hatred-revisited/]