Parent Loss & The Bonds That Remain
In this deeply meaningful episode, I sit down with my dear friend Sarah Hamlin to explore the profound terrain of losing a parent. Sarah shares the intimate story of her motherās decision to pursue medical aid in dying- and what it asked of her to remain present through a consciously chosen ending, as both a daughter and a mother to her own children.
Together, we reflect on twhat it means to become an āorphan,ā and to live alongside grief that refuses to be rushed, that doesnāt resolve but evolves, reshaping us over time.
We explore the ways connection continues- through meaning, memory, and especially through signs and sychronicities- revealing the enduring bond between those here and those weāve lost, and the quiet comfort of sensing our loved ones still reaching toward us with love.
Transcript below:
Hi Everybody! Welcomeot the Wisdom of Grief Podcast. Iām your host, Leslie Hunt Palumbo, and today you get the privilege of meeting one of my nearest and dearest friends for many, many years, Sarah Hamlin. Sarah is a lawyer, social worker, and advocate for children and families as a program director for the state of Connecticut. But she is here today in a different capacity, and that is in the capacity of grieving daughter. So, welcome, Sarah!
* Sarah Hamlin Thank you, Leslie. Itās exciting to be here and have this conversation with you today.
Leslie H Palumbo, LCSW It so is, and I know that you and I have talked about grief, life, death, so many times over the years, and we have walked each other through our hardest losses in this life. But in particular, I feel like you have something so valuable to say that comes from your own experience of loss, and in particular, the loss of your mother. and also the loss of both of your parents, so, being an adult orphan, which I think many people are, and thatās a particular kind of loss that I would love to touch on, and also to talk about, medical aid in dying, which is, the way that your motherās life ended. So, I would love to start with your mom, and just talk about that, and what happened in 2022 for you.
Sarah Hamlin Okay, yeah, I think, you know, itās been really an interesting experience, partly becausā¦ you have this concept, right, of, like, medical aid and dying, and then to step into it as something that youāre going through with a loved one, we had a lot to learn.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief And let me just stop for one second just to say, for people who donāt know what medical aid in dying is, it is actually when a medical professional subscribes the medication to end a terminally ill patientās life, and then the patient takes it. So it requires terminal illness, a sound mind.
Itās voluntary, and itās taken by a personās own hand. And itās becoming a much more common part of our lexicon and discussion now, because even in the United States, itās legal in 14 states. I think itās on the legislative agenda for, like, 14 more states. So, there are a lot of people who are sort of talking about it, but fewer people who have actually lived through it. So, yeah.
Sarah Hamlin Right, yeah, and so I think youāre right, I think the first law was passed, you know, in, 1994, but itās taken a long time for other states to come on board. And my mother, actually, she was living up in Maine as a legal resident of Maine, where, the medical aid in dying law had gone into effectā¦I canāt remember the exact year, maybe 2019, orā¦ but regardless, it was sufficient for her to be able to access it. And my mother had, congestive heart failure and her health had been declining for a number of years, but she made an announcement, early on in 2022 that she wanted to take advantage of the law. And she said, you know, Iām ready to, be done. I mean, you know, it was very shocking, I think, for all of us. Our family had had some significant exposure to the concept through an uncle who was a real advocate, a national advocate for medical aid in dying, and had been connected to a national organization called Compassion and Choices. And so we had some exposure and comfort with it, so it wasnāt something we werenāt familiar with, but then to know that my mother wanted to do this meant that we had to really educate ourselves about how it worked in Maine, and what we needed to do.
Itās hard toā¦ I think, convey adequately what it feels like to be planning something like that. I mean, my mother actually, looked at a calendar and said, oh, September 22nd is the autumnal equinox. That sounds like a good day. And so we knew for many months that that was the day that my mother was going to die.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief How old was she?
Sarah Hamlin She was 85. And she had actually already been approved for hospice. So she wasā¦ On hospice care and had been for many months, even at the time that we started this process. And so that piece that you mentioned before, having been declared aā¦ having a terminal illness is essential to the process. And in Maine, you actually have to have two different physicians Confirm that, based on their medical experience, that that itās likely that the person will, die from that terminal illness within about 6 months. But we still had many steps we had to take. She had to declare verbally, multiple times and put in writing that this was her choice, that she was voluntarily, entering into this process.
And, I think, you know, just to take a step back and say what it felt like to walk with her through this part is that youāre trying to sort of separate from the emotions almost a little bit, right? Because you have steps and tasks that you have to do, andā¦I was really intentional about wanting to support her. But in some ways, that means youāre putting aside your own emotions and feelings, right? Like, how do you process something like that? I think it was reallyā¦ itās sort of shocking, becauseā¦you know, you have this exposure, and then all of a sudden, itās like, wow, Iām in it, this is happening to me, and I want to honor, my motherās wishes around it, and I need to be strong for her.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief And itās so interesting, because I remember going through this with you, and I remember also that your motherā¦ she was dying, and I think at the time I remember you saying, you can correct me if Iām wrong, but at the time that she chose to end her suffering, she was in great suffering, and she probably would have only had maybe 2 more weeks. Somewhere in the next 2 weeks, she would have gone. So her life was ending anyway. But I feel like I remember it was about the suffering. You know, I think the whole idea of medical aid in dying is just really choosing death over suffering. You know, extensive, long suffering, I believe.
Sarah Hamlin I think youāre absolutely right, and I think that, you know, even thoughā¦ because you never know, like, she could have had two weeks, she could have had, you know, it could continue to prolong. I think part of it For those who choose it. Itās absolutely about ending the suffering, but I think itās about taking back some control, some decision-making about how do I want the moment, the end of my life moment, to look like and be like. And I think for my mother, it brought her a lot of peace to know that she was actively, engaged in the process and had some control over it. She was able to have the people she loved most surround her. She was able to say her goodbyes, and she knew that she, because she was in a great deal of pain, and during the last few weeks of her life, had been taking a lot more pain medication, and wasā¦almost not even able to communicate on the same level, because she needed to be, medicated so much. So, I thinkā¦ I think, yeah, for her perspective, it felt very comforting and,Yeah, she just knew that she was gonna have the exact death that she envisioned for herself.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief Yeah, and what was that like, going through that? A planned death. Itās like a plannedā¦ Birth, you know?Itāll happen anyway, but youāre just choosing when itās gonna happen.
Sarah Hamlin: I know. And she was very matter-of-fact about it, to be honest, which I think, in some ways, made it better. In some ways, you know, maybe we struggled with it, too, because, what I remember very vividly is she chose a time, too. She said, weāre gonna do it at 10 AM, On September 22nd, 2022. So, we were all with her. It was my two siblings, my older brotherās wife, and then my two children. We were all there, and my mother had some phone calls, and we had two hospice Staff who were present at the beginning, but then as soon as she was ready to take the medication, they actually had to leave, so they were not a part of any of that. But you know, we were justā¦ we were talking, we were visiting, you know, had music on. My mother had selected music that she wanted to play, and we were reading poems, and just really, Interacting and connecting. And then my mother, you know, we were aware of the time going by, right? Like, I saw it was 10 oāclock, then itās after 10, and then my mother sort of said, oh, well, donāt I need to take a second dose? And we were like, Mom, you havenāt even taken the first dose yet, and itās after 10, and she was like, you know, weāre off the timeline. I think she reallyā¦It helped her I think mentally and emotionally, to have thisā¦timeline that she was adhering to. And, that part, that moment, when, you know, because we had to get medication prescribed and, had to goā¦ not all pharmacies can prescribe it, so I had to driveā¦about an hour from her home to a pharmacy to get it, and even the pharmacist had been, unsure of what to do, because it was new to them. It was the first time they were prescribedā¦ like, they were filling the prescription.But so, for my mother, once, once we got to that moment when she said, she was ready and wanted to start, we had multiple medications.that we gave them to her, so she had some tablets, some were in liquid, like, powder form that we mixed with water, but she had to take them herself. So we were able to follow the instructions of, you know, what do you take first, what was the sequence, how much time, because thatās very specific, to wait 30 minutes, wait for this. But then she had to take them, and again, I think we were all Caught up in theā¦ the steps of it.And then, once we got through her administering the medication, I think thatās when things started to get really, really hard. She said goodbye to each one of us individually. And then you just have to wait, and thatās really hard, too, because the medication, you know, thereās medication to help her be less nauseous, so that she doesnāt, you know, vomit up the medication. And then thereās medication that relaxes her and helps her to sort of feel tired and drowsy. And then thereās the medication that actually stops the heart. And That time felt really surreal. I donāt even know as I could tell you how much time we sat there. Youāre sort of frozen in time, because at that point, she was unconscious, but had not yet passed. And so thenā¦ yeah, so then weāre standing there, and then, you know, you think youāre prepared, but youāre not prepared. Thereās no way to prepare.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief :Yeah, thatās what I think is so interesting, because even if you know the exact minute that your mother is going to die and you go through it together, As you did with your mother, orā¦If thereās a terminal cancer, and we expect it, and we may even long for the end of their suffering, Itās just, thereās no sidestepping Shock.Thereās no sidestepping grief, really, and thereās no sidestepping a lot of the common things that everybody goes through, no matter what the manner of death is. Because, you know, everybody goes through shock. You canāt really know what itās like to have her not on this earth until sheās not in the body on this earth.
Sarah Hamlin Right? Absolutely. And I think, you know, it was like we were on this journey together, you know? She had made this decision, and we were together the whole time, navigating all the steps, and then all of a sudden, itās like, weāre still on this journey, and youāre gone, and then you have to process all of that grief, right? Because even though youāre prepared and youā¦ you reconcile, maybe you reconcile with the fact that this is whatās happening, youāre right, you canāt possibly know what to expect. And I think, you know, you mentioned the concept of mother loss, right? And I had already lost my father, I had left someā¦ lost some other relatives who were significant in my life, but I think, thereās something about losing your mother thatās just so profound. And deep, I had had friends, and colleagues who had talked about losing their mother, and I think when I had no experience of it.
I would think, oh gosh, you know, like, itās been a decade or more, and theyāre still feeling the intensity of the loss, and experiencing that grief, and I think I didnāt understand it then, but I understand it now. I understand it now for sure.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief Yeah, I think itās interesting that the way you described it was, like, how she was the conductor of the last moments, in the same way she was, you know, the conductor of your life, and then suddenly the conductor is gone, and then youāre still here. And, yeah, the motherā¦ and you are an only daughter, right? You have two brothers, but itās just being an only daughter, too. Itās the mother-daughter bond.
Sarah Hamlin Yeah.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief Itās really justā¦indescribable. And so many of us have experienced what itās like to just not be with your mother, I mean For me, itās been 21 years, and the other day, I was driving home, and I was like, I just went to tell my mother this thing, and have that kind of conversation I used to have with her, and I thought, wow, itās still there.
Sarah Hamlin Absolutely, yeah. I mean, Iām the same, I still experience that. I described, at one point, we did a sort of a celebration of life for my mother a year after she passed, and as I was thinking about the things I wanted to say, one of the things that kept coming back to me was the idea that my mother filled all of the quiet spaces in my life. When I wasnāt racing around and working, or taking care of my children, or tending to tasks, I would call her. It didnāt have to be something big, it didnāt have to be, like, a huge success, or something I was really upset about. It would just be, you know, Iām driving, and Iāll call my mother and see how sheās doing, right? Like, it was very much just She was always there.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief I love the way you described, āmy mother filled all the quiet spaces in my lifeā. Thatās such a beautiful way to put it. I think a lot of people feel that way. But I was gonna say, you mentioned that you had lost your father, and so you were already grieving your father, and then your mother died in this way. How do you think that colored your grief? And How did that color your grief for the way she died?
Sarah Hamlin
Yeah, I think it very much did. I think part of it, too, is that, you know, my father died, quite a bit before my mother, like, 11 years, andā¦ but she was still there, right? So she helped us to work through that. And so you still feel as if you have that family of origin. I donāt know that, you know, that just your family is still has a presence, an intact, a sense of being intact still. And my father, in some ways, was very different, and this is just a little digression, but when you thinkā¦ I think about my mother, and she was surrounded by the people who she wanted there, who she loved the most, her children, her grandchildren, and my father had the complete opposite experience. He had been, going back and forth between home, hospital, rehab centers. He also had congestive heart failure and physically was very weak and would fall and then have to recover from that. Heā¦ so he was in a bed in a rehab center, and, a aide went in to see him in the middle of the night. It wasā¦ I think it was, like, 1 or 2 oāclock in the morning. And my father asked for something, and the aide walked out, and when he came back, my father had passed. I mean, my father was truly alone. And I think that impacted us as well, but as we know, that may have been exactly what he wanted and what he needed to make that final transition.
But as far as the aftermath and the grief, I think having both my parents gone. you know, you use the term orphan, and honestly, I thought that right away, and I thought, this is really odd. Iām a, you know, 57-year-old woman, and yet I do, I feel like an orphan. I feel very, like, rootless, like Iām afloat or something, and need to figure out how to become grounded again. And it has to be an intentional thing, I think. I felt fortunate to have, you know, Iāve got lots of other family and friends, but itās stillā¦ your parents represent something different.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief Yeah, and itās almost like, who are you a child to now, you know?
Sarah Hamlin whoās thinking about me, right? Like, my mother was so funny, she would look at the weather and call me and say, oh, make sure you take your umbrella with you today, and itās a different thought process. Itās somebody.
When I think about myself as a parent, Iām thinking about my children all the time, and how theyāre walking in the world. And then I turn that back and think. My mother was doing that for me, and thatās really special. Itās a really unique, person in a relationship whoās always thinking about you, and wanting, you know, you to have a good day, and to, you know, have your best day, and make sure youāre eating properly, and not getting wet in the rain.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief I remember saying to my son at one point, like, if you had any idea just how much of my waking consciousness is about just thinking about wanting the best, and loving, and hoping, and, you know, all these things on behalf of him. itās amazing, you know, thatās the experience of mothering.
but I want to go back to that, because you mentioned, your kids. Your kids were there. They were very close with your mother, they were there also at the end, and what was it like being a daughter and being a mother present in that room in that way, you know?
Sarah Hamlin It was really challenging, I think, because Iām trying to manage my own emotions, Iām trying to be strong and be there for my mother, and then Iām also just hyper-aware of my children, and what their body language was, what they were, experiencing, I was feeling my own devastation, but I was absolutely feeling theirs as well. So it was all compounded, because as you said, they wereā¦ they were so close to my mother, and they reacted in very different ways. They were both being very present and helpful, and they were old enough, I mean, Iām trying to think, I guess, like, 21 and, 24, so old enough, I think, to understand That this was something important to their grandmother, and they supported it wholeheartedly, and would not have changed the fact that they were present, and that it was something hard, but that they wouldnāt have chosen anything other than being there for her. And then seeing the aftermath, right? And that was almost harder. I think we all functioned up until the time when she actually passed, and then we all, to some extent, moved into what our own personal grief experience was gonna look like, and it manifested very differently for all of us.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief To me, part of grief is that inner questioning, like, the guilt, like, and I donāt know how was that colored by her experience. I think itās present for all of us in a certain way. What could we have done? We should have done more. What, you know, all of that.
Sarah Hamlin Absolutely. And even though, you know, I thought I had said everything I needed to say. I realized afterwards that I hadnāt, and one of the most important things, I think, that we hadnāt talked aboutā¦is maybe, and see, I could almost get emotional saying this now, right? Is, like, did I ever actually tell her how much we were all gonna miss her afterwards, right? Like, we were able to say, I love you, and are you comfortable, and what can I do for you, and Iām present for you. But then, after she was gone, thereās always, I think, that question of. did I say it in a way that she heard me? Didā¦ you know, sometimes we think that our actions are speaking loudly, but, you know, you donāt know forā¦ I donāt know for sure if, how it was interpreted by her. And so, yeah, like, thereāsā¦ thereās questions aboutā¦all of it.
Youāre right, you canāt sidestep it. Thereāsā¦ I mean, it may be partlyā¦Iām a very emotionally oriented person, and Iām constantly, sort of, thinking about other people and being outside of myself, but,Yeah, there was a lot of thinking, internal thinking, aboutā¦was it ultimately the experience that she had hoped for herself? And, I just hope that when she did transition, that she felt as if her life was sort of fully resolved, I guess, I think, because thatās what she used to say, and itās funny, because she has noā¦ she was not a sportsperson at all, but for some reason, the sports analogy is what she landed on to explain to people. She would always say, you know, Iāve had a lot of good innings, and now Iāmā¦ Iām ready, you know? And So, probably she hadā¦ she was more resolved to the whole thing than the rest of us, but yeah, lots ofā¦ lots of things come up in the aftermath.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief I know, and Iā¦ I think youāre right, that question of, did I tell her how much Iām going to miss her when sheās gone? Like, I think about that with my mother, who died in very different circumstances, because she did die by her own hand, but she did not die of a terminal illness. You know, she died of a mental illness, and chose to take her life. And the one thing I always hope when I think about if thereās life after death, if thereās something after, if thereās some sense of consciousness without the body, is. I hope that she understands just how much she actually really meant, because she didnāt underā¦ she didnātā¦ she couldnāt connect with that at the end, obviously. And I hope that she understands how much she meant to all of us, and how much we miss her still, and how much that she mattered in this life.
And thatās, like, all we hope, tās interesting. I remember, after my mother died, I read this book about depression, by Andrew Solomon called The Noonday Demon, and itās an amazing book, for anyone who hasnāt read it, about depression and recovering from depression and being suicidal. And in the book, he actually talks about his mother did medical aid in dying, and he was young at the time, so he would have been about the age of your children. He was in his 20s. And, she was very resolute about it, she had advanced cancer, there was not gonna be a good outcome, there was a lot of suffering, and she had the family with her and, and made that choice.
And he writes some beautiful passages about how thatās stillā¦ even though, thereās a deep understanding and respect for the choice that she made, there was also, as a child, this sense of rejection. Like, this is a person whoās known you the longest, loved you the best, but also, theyāre choosing to go, even if itās 20 minutes early. Like, it justā¦ there was some childlike, you know, we grieve as a child for our parents, and we grieve like children, and and that always struck me, you know, as someā¦ anotherā¦ itās justā¦We canāt get out without complication. And complicated thoughts and wonderings in our grief, you know?
Sarah Hamlin Absolutely, and you referenced something that he, said, whichā¦ which I havenāt commented on yet, which itās true, you know, despite the fact that I supported her fully, and knew the reasons why she was making this choice. afterwards, there were moments when I thought, you know, she still left, right? She still chose that course of action versus extra time with the people she loved, and itās really easy to twist that into something that feels painful and personal versusā¦that understanding that we can have logically about herā¦ what she was choosing to do. That it wasnāt choosing about leaving us, it was about leaving the suffering and having her end-of-life moment and transition, you know, look the way she wanted it to look. But youāre right, itās there, and it pops up.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief
Yeah, and it pops up, of course, as a survivor of suicide, I can say, you know, which is very different from medical aid and dying, but, I can say, tooā¦ the rejection piece, you know, is something that only over time we come to understand. In the state that she was in, that was not a rejection of her children. That was a deep grab for peace in the midst of suffering. It was ending her suffering, and in doing so, she ended her life. I understand that, intellectually, but, itās something that the emotions can can go all up and down with that, and it just takes a while to, like, sort it out.
Sarah Hamlin It sure can. And that, that grief piece, too, it, because of the way it ebbs and flows, andā¦ and again, you know, you experience it differently after different losses. And so, every time, you canāt say, oh, this is what itās gonna be like, because itās always different. I know, like, can Iā¦ can I get better at this? No, maybe not.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief Damn it, I want to shortcut it, come on.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief Yeah. So, okay, so Iāve got to touch on this, because we mentioned earlierā¦ this questioning about what happens afterwards, which I think a lot of people go through. Itās just a questioning of faith, itās a spiritual questioning, itās just a wondering what happens after we die.
And, you had a fascinating grandmother.
Sarah Hamlin I did.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief We have talked a lot about this, what lies on the other side in communication post-death. Weāve been to our Long Island medium, Teresa Caputo, and weāve shared a kind of interest and fascination, but it began for you with your grandmother. Wait, youāve got to just tell us, and is this your motherās motherā¦
Sarah Hamlin My motherās mother. And so she, from very early on, so she was in Boston, and there were a number of really, I think, what we might look back at as prominent mediums, or, I donāt know, spiritualists, or whatever youād want to call them, and she was involved in that community and reallyā¦ Believed that there wasā¦Something after, that there was an ability to communicate in a way ofā¦signs, like your loved ones who had passed over, like, sending you signs, that, Iā¦She had what we used to call her spook books, and so she had all these books about reincarnation and life after death, andā¦ and she had this unbelievable sense of peace and you know, discomfort about whatever would come next, because she felt really strongly that she would be greeted by her loved ones, and she passed that along to my mother and the rest of us, and so I think my mother really, knew that she was gonna, you know, be connected somehow again in a deeper way in the afterlife with her mother and her father and my father, and so,
And that communication pieceā¦ so my grandmother taught us how to use the, we always call it the bobber, but itās like, Pendulum, right? Where you sort ofā¦ yeah, where you can ask questions and get answers, And soā¦weāveā¦ we felt like there were going to be opportunities to stay connected in meaningful ways that I think helped all of us.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief Soā¦ yes, I think thatās amazing. Iām a big believer in signs, Iām a big believer in communication from the other side, and Iām also a big believer that it actually, eases my mind.
You know, Iām a skeptic in some way, too, Iām rational, but at the same time, Iāve landed in the place where I feel like it doesnāt actually matter to me whether itās real or not. It matters that it brings me more peace, like you were talking about with yourā¦ your belief of your grandmother. If I feel peace about it, then thatās the important thing. Anyways, we had signs this morning. We were texting about the time of this, and then you said there was some Poem that you read.
Sarah Hamlin I know! Well, I have these, daily affirmation cards that are lines from Mary Oliver poems, right? And they sit in a stack, and I grab one in the morning, like, it doesnāt evenā¦ I donāt always take the front one, I sort of just grab one very randomly. And the one that I grabbed this morning, is fromā¦ is a poem, The Uses of Sorrow, that says, someone I loved once gave me a box full of darkness. It took me years to understand that this, too, was a gift.
And I thought, the universe knows where Iām heading today in terms of the conversation that Iām gonna be having. And that felt It couldnāt have been more on point.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief Thatās literally my favorite poem, and my favorite poem about motherloss. For my own motherloss, it was a box of darkness, like, here you go. Sort this one out. And, and its justā¦that is so synchronous.
Sarah Hamlin What are the chances? I agree.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief Do you have signs from your mother?
Sarah Hamlin So, weāve always had this thing about dimes, and so, andā¦ I realize that, you know, anyone whoās a full-on skeptic could say, well, you know, there are dimes everywhere you can find dimes, butā¦ but itās about finding a single, or, you know, sometimes I find two, and then I think, you know, it could be my mother and father, or my mother and my grandmother. But theyāll be by themselves, with no other coins, in a place where they wouldnāt necessarily be, and then Iām like, someone is thinking about me right now.
And as you said, it gives me a good feeling, and so, I challenge anyone to talk me out of it, because itā¦ it just it makes me feel connected, and so I love that.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief And thatās the key after loss, is how do you stay connected when you loseā¦ and weāre talking about losing your mom, how do you stay connected with your person and your own heart, especially, on tough days? And I think having these touchstones, whether they come in the form of signs and synchronicities, and some people find, you know, have certain birds or animals or flowers.
I havea heron. A heron blew over the tennis court this morning when I was playing this morning before our talk. That never happens, just saying. Itās a way of sort of just saying, hey. You feel like theyāre saying hi, or you say hi. You know, you can have a little object that you carry thatās kind of like saying, youāre with me. Itās how we carry them. We remind ourselves that we carry them. We remind ourselves that the relationship is still kind of going on in some way, because our feelingsā¦ your feelings about your mother have probably changed in the last 4 years since she passed, and so that means youāre still in relationship, itās still growing, itās still changing, you know?
Sarah Hamlin And time is so interesting sometimes, especially with something like this, where it feels like forever, and it feels like yesterday at the same time. I almost feel like I could continue my conversations with her that I was having the day she died, right? It feels very present and loud still. Like you were saying, I feel like sometimes I could justā¦ I want to pick up the phone, I want to share something.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief So, now I want to ask you the three questions that I always ask all my guests about grief. I want you to share what these truths are for you, in one word or sentence.
First is, what was the most challenging thing about your grief?
Sarah Hamlin So, that to me is immediate. I go to the fact that itās constant. I mean, it shifts. Butā¦ thereās no time limit on it, right? It doesnāt end.And I donāt want my love for her, I donāt want theā¦ her presence to end. But the grief is hard, and sometimes some moments and days are worse than others, and so I think the challenging part is just understanding how to live with it forever, right?
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief Yeah, thatās a good way of putting it.constant, yeah, and doesnāt end, right? Itās not like you can just say, okay, hereās the process, and then weāre done, and then we get to go on.
Second, what is the most important thing that you gained from the experience of grief? Not loss But the griefā¦
Sarah Hamlin Yeah, when you make that distinction between grief and loss. I think, with grief, for me itāsā¦ sort of a sense of gratitude. And thatās how I deal with it, too, right? Like, thatās how I manage my grief is to try and shift into a place of gratitude that I had this person. not as long as I wanted them for, but that we lived in the world at the same time, right?
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief That I had this person, and we lived on the Earth at the same time. I love it, yeah. Itās interesting, it reminds me that thereās this poem by Wallace Stevens, and one of the lines says, death is the mother of beauty. Because I just think it puts you in touch with that impermanence of everything, and thatās what imbues us with lifeās, like, poignancy and beauty.
Sarah Hamlin Itās so true! And whether this makes sense to say it this way, itās hard to find the right language, I think, sometimes to explain these sort of bigger concepts or emotions, but the griefā¦ If you try to be intentional, again, about navigating through it and with it, it gives you a different perspective on living your own life.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief Yeah, I know, because we donātā¦ thatās how long we have, we better just live it.
Sarah Hamlin Itās that wake-up call, right? Is the loss, and then the grief is just, like, sort of a constant reminder.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief Itās a prompt, weāre all going there at some point. We donāt know when, we donāt know how, but this is the journey and Dying is part of it. Itās part of all of it. Yeah, so thirdly, what most helpful advice do you feel like you would like to give someone in grief? Grieving your mom, letās say.
Sarah Hamlin Yeah, I think helping people to really, I donāt want to say understand, again, language is leaving me, but to know that grief is to give yourself grace and permission to be wherever you are in the moment. To not have those expectations, like itās gonna end, or thereās times when I have to put it away and not show it to anybody, because I think we do, like, we try and control it. And, I have had some friends who have lost people who were very important to them, and theyāll apologize for being upset, and Iāll say, you need to feel whatever youāre feeling right now, you need to feel it. You canāt shut it down, because this moment, this is what you need to feel, and this is how you need to heal and process. I hope that would help people, is to just know that you canāt do it wrong. Itās personal, and you need to just give yourself a lot of grace about when it pops up to just be in that moment, and not feel like you shouldnāt be? Like, I should be getting over this, or I shouldnāt be feeling this now, or with these people. Itās honor what you need.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief We put ourselves on a timeline, and we put a whole lot of expectations on it. And partially, thatās a wish to have the suffering be lessened, but partially, I think we just tend to do that as humans. We tend to create unrealistic expectations for ourselves, and then be disappointed in ourselves when we donāt live up to it.
Grief makes us have to be more compassionate with ourselves. No one gets out without having to do that. Like, thatās how we survive, so we have to do it.
Sarah Hamlin Thatās right. Yeah, and as we get older, we have more of these experiences, we have more friends who are experiencing it, and youāre right, we will all have these significant losses and feel this grief, and thenā¦ and then have to be carrying it with us.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief Yeah, and we will all walk each other through it.
You Have walked me through so many things, with your wisdom and kindness. You are so smart, so beautiful. You are so wonderful, and thank you so much for being here, my fascinating friend.
Sarah Hamlin Oh, thank you.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief All your precious time to tune in with this, and all your wisdom.
Sarah Hamlin: Well, I was so happy to be here, because youāre right, weāve had these conversations, and I love that we can have this conversation in a way that might be valuable to somebody else, and, you know, put it out in the universe, or, you know.on, one of Substack, right? And wherever it goes, that people who need to find it will find it. Thatās my hope.
Leslie Hunt Palumbo, LCSW Wisdom of Grief: Yeah, and itās good, itās appropriate, because weāre doing this around Motherās Day, right? So itās, itās interesting howā¦ yeah. Yeah, well, and I do, I really hope, that this conversation will color peopleās grief in a meaningful and worthwhile way, and also for people listening and for you and I, to remember that talking about and listening to this can be triggering and bring up a lot of our own grief in ways that we may not even expect. So donāt forget to do something extra kind for yourself today.
And until next time, I wish you all peace as you tread the waters of grief.
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