Art & Science of Complex Sales

The Human Edge in an AI-Driven Sales World with Marylou Tyler

In this episode of The Art and Science of Complex Sales, Paul Fuller sits down with Marylou Tyler [https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryloutyler/], author of Predictable Revenue and Predictable Prospecting [https://www.amazon.com/Predictable-Prospecting-Radically-Increase-Pipeline/dp/1259835642/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3RVP8OJB0YXS8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.5JuMGLpyIX-qXO4yTdEwNdZM6Hz0IWCc4OGo_8GTUs0.pjoeMKpQ5L1khhEtTZP6vUrRidkAP8K3GJeak-289Js&dib_tag=se&keywords=predictable+revenue+and+predictable+prospecting+marylou+tyler&qid=1762954056&sprefix=predictable+revenue+and+predictable+prospecting+marylou+tyler%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-2], to explore how her frameworks have evolved in the age of AI. Marylou shares how sales teams can embrace agentic AI, systems of specialized, single-task agents, to reduce busywork, boost quality conversations, and scale smarter. Together, they unpack how automation and LLMs are reshaping outbound strategies, where human sellers still matter most, and what it means to build a digital twin of your sales expertise. This episode blends deep technical insight with a clear-eyed view of what still makes great salespeople indispensable. Precision Outreach and Early Warning Signals in the Pipeline (12:47) Marylou Tyler breaks down how AI transforms both outbound outreach and pipeline management by moving beyond volume-based tactics toward personalized, signal-driven engagement. She explains how AI can analyze individual prospects—understanding their preferences, timing, and level of awareness—to create custom outreach sequences instead of one-size-fits-all campaigns. She also discusses the power of micro signals in the sales pipeline. From a lack of response to subtle changes in stage velocity, AI agents can now flag issues early and provide context around what’s stalling a deal. By identifying these patterns, sales teams can intervene faster, course-correct, and increase the likelihood of closing. Building an Army of AI Agents with Shared Context (24:06) Marylou Tyler explores the future of agentic AI in sales by envisioning a system of interconnected AI agents, each responsible for a specific part of the sales process. To work effectively together, these agents must operate under a shared context protocol that prevents miscommunication—just like a game of telephone can distort a message, AI systems can easily lose clarity without consistent guidelines. She references emerging protocols like Anthropic’s MCP and discusses the importance of using trusted tools or building custom systems to maintain integrity and alignment. As AI evolves rapidly, Marylou questions the relevance of traditional publishing and instead envisions dynamic, updateable frameworks delivered through AI-native formats. Why Humans Still Matter in a Tech-Driven Sales World (29:02) Marylou Tyler reflects on the accelerating pace of change in sales and reinforces the enduring value of human connection. Even in an AI-augmented environment, she argues, complex B2B sales still require trust, empathy, and real conversations. Sales professionals are not being replaced—they’re being called to elevate. She emphasizes the need to invest in training at the individual level, not just through broad team initiatives. With AI now enabling personalized feedback loops and skill development, the future of sales belongs to those who can combine data with deeply human conversations.

Go for No! │ Andrea Waltz & Richard Fenton

In this episode of The Art and Science of Complex Sales, Paul Fuller [https://www.linkedin.com/feed/] sits down with Andrea Waltz [https://www.linkedin.com/in/goforno/] and Richard Fenton [https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-fenton-07360a99/], co-authors of Go for No [https://www.amazon.se/-/en/Richard-Fenton/dp/0966398130], to explore how a mindset shift around rejection can unlock untapped sales potential. Together, they challenge the traditional obsession with getting to “yes” and make the case for measuring success by the number of “no's” you collect. From disqualification strategies to embracing failure as a learning tool, this episode is packed with stories, tactics, and mindset shifts that can help sales teams grow in courage, resilience, and results. The Power of Hearing No (1:08) Richard shares the origin story of Go for No, sparked by a question that changed his entire outlook on sales: “What did the customer say no to?” This chapter explores how most salespeople stop selling too early and how fear of rejection becomes a self-imposed limit on performance. The lesson is to stop judging your success by the size of the yes and start tracking how many no’s you’re willing to hear. Quantity Leads, Quality Follows (6:25) Andrea and Richard tackle the debate between activity volume and skill refinement. They argue that quantity is the leading indicator of success and that obsessing over perfect technique without enough activity leads to stagnation. Reps must fail forward using each no as a step toward improvement and insight. Persistence Pays Off (13:59) In a memorable personal story, Richard describes proposing to Andrea over 400 times before she finally said yes. The metaphor holds in sales: consistent, respectful follow-up creates familiarity, trust, and eventually, opportunity. No isn't the end of the conversation—it is often the beginning of a real relationship. Operationalizing the Go for No Mindset (19:35) Andrea explains how organizations can embed “Go for No” into culture without overhauling their entire process. From no-tracking challenges to mindset-based workshops, companies that celebrate rejection as a step toward growth see more activity, better morale, and stronger pipelines. Leaders play a crucial role in modeling and reinforcing this behavior.

Be The Mentor Who Mattered with Colleen Stanley

In this episode of The Art and Science of Complex Sales [https://open.spotify.com/show/73MtTJI3j5tsO51kr08XgK?si=77edb113310a4b77], Paul Fuller [https://www.linkedin.com/in/psfuller/] welcomes Colleen Stanley [https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenstanleysli/], sales leadership expert and author, to discuss her latest book Be the Mentor Who Mattered [https://a.co/d/96TnBzE]. Colleen shares why mentorship has never been more relevant and how small, intentional moments can create lifelong impact. Together, they explore the modern challenges to building community in the workplace, the power of mentor intelligence, and how leaders can shift from being task-driven to truly people-focused. With personal stories and practical takeaways, this conversation serves as both a call to action and a guide for becoming the kind of mentor that changes lives. The Perfect Storm for Mentorship (03:40) Colleen outlines three major shifts: the breakdown of community, the unintended consequences of social media, and the unrelenting pace of change, all of which are increasing the need for mentorship. She explains how remote work and hyperconnectivity have eroded meaningful connection and argues that mentorship is the antidote to a society that has become hurried and self-absorbed. Moments That Matter (10:24) Sharing stories from her book, Colleen emphasizes that mentorship doesn’t require a formal program or a famous background. She recounts how her mentor supported her during a period of self-doubt and how simple acts of paying attention can leave lasting impressions. These mentor moments often happen informally, in conversations, reviews, or small gestures, and they can shape entire careers. Making Mentorship Practical (14:28) Colleen stresses that anyone can be a mentor and offers tips to make mentorship manageable. From integrating it into daily routines to rethinking how we define mentorship, she advocates for a culture where supporting others is seen as a natural part of leadership. Her goal is to make mentorship less about structure and more about presence, awareness, and generosity of spirit.

From Process to Playbook with Mark Grundy

In this episode of The Art and Science of Complex Sales, Paul Fuller sits down with Mark Grundy [https://www.linkedin.com/in/markfgrundy/], Fractional Sales Management of MFG Solutions [https://mfgsolutions.ca/]. Mark brings 40 years of sales experience to the table, including 13 years specializing in fractional sales leadership.  Their conversation dives into the importance of aligning sales processes with buyer behavior, building agile playbooks, and bridging the gap between frontline sales teams and leadership. Mark also shares insights into how AI and shifting trade dynamics are impacting B2B sales, especially across the US-Canada border. Sales as a Buyer-Centric Process (02:00) Mark defines sales not as a script to follow, but as a process designed around helping buyers make decisions. The conversation focuses on recognizing buyer steps, not seller steps, and how great sales execution requires identifying the “state change” the buyer is seeking. From transactional retail to enterprise B2B, the goal remains the same: deliver value that enables the buyer to move forward confidently. Designing Flexible Playbooks for Complex Sales (05:57) Playbooks should serve the buyer’s journey, not box sellers into rigid frameworks. Mark shares how effective playbooks include key questions to ask, tools to use, and clear exit criteria at every stage. He distinguishes between a generalized process and the granular play-by-play approach needed for each decision-maker in a complex deal. His coaching motto: “Process can’t be about checking boxes; it has to be dynamic, situational, and value-focused.” Accountability vs. Coaching (17:01) Mark explains how separating accountability reviews from coaching conversations builds trust and clarity. One-on-ones are kept short, factual, and frequent, tailored to each rep’s performance. Coaching, on the other hand, dives into skill development and deal strategy. He emphasizes the power of “windshield time,” riding along with reps in the field to reinforce culture and drive real impact.

The Three Incorrects with Steve Reid

In this episode of The Art and Science of Complex Sales, Paul Fuller is joined by Steve Reid [https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-reid-csl/], CEO and founder of Venatas [https://venatas.com/]. With over three decades of experience in marketing, sales, and revenue leadership, Steve brings deep experience in helping venture-backed and scaling companies build buyer-led, high-performing sales organizations. Together, they explore why so many go-to-market teams underperform and what it really takes to fix it. The Three “Incorrects” Holding Sales Teams Back (10:32) Steve identifies three root causes of underperformance: 1. Incorrectly assessing the team: Companies overestimate their reps’ true selling competencies and set unrealistic targets. 2. Incorrect selling process: Most processes are built around what sellers want to do, not how buyers actually make decisions. 3. Incorrect training: 80% of training is product-focused, leaving reps unable to conduct strong discovery or build business cases that win internal buy-in. By addressing these “incorrects,” organizations can finally achieve sustainable, predictable growth. Designing for a Buyer-Led Journey (20:41) Modern buyers want autonomy. They will engage with salespeople only when those sellers help them make confident decisions. Steve explains how sales teams can shift from CRM-driven checklists to buyer-focused conversations, helping customers connect product value to strategic business outcomes and navigate internal consensus. Buying Isn’t Linear, and Your Pipeline Shouldn’t Pretend It Is (29:07) Buyers don’t move from stage one to stage five during their buying journey. Instead, they loop, pause, and revisit decisions. Steve argues that the most effective sellers embrace this nonlinearity, using trust, credibility, and strategic influence to guide the process rather than forcing buyers into a fixed process. From Training to Transformation (39:57) Workshops don’t change behavior, reinforcement does. Steve highlights how lasting transformation requires an integrated system of ongoing coaching, deal reviews, enablement alignment, and process refinement over time. Listen to the full conversation with Steve Reid to learn how to build a truly buyer-aligned sales organization that replaces outdated assumptions with clarity, capability, and measurable results.