125: How to Price Your Products and Services for Real ROI — with Andee Hart (Part 2)

125: How to Price Your Products and Services for Real ROI — with Andee Hart (Part 2)

You already know what you offer is worth it. So why does it feel so hard to actually charge that number? In Part 2 of this conversation, Jan sits back down with Andee Hart — sales strategist, wholesale business expert, and host of She Sells Differently — to tackle one of the most emotionally loaded topics in entrepreneurship: pricing. Not the spreadsheet version. The version where guilt, fear of rejection, people-pleasing, and a deep desire to serve all collide at the checkout page. Whether you sell physical products, coaching, courses, or creative services, this episode will challenge the way you've been calculating your prices — and give you a practical framework for backing into what you should actually be charging. In this episode you'll learn: * Why women entrepreneurs consistently underprice themselves — and the caregiving instinct that's often behind it * How to shift from cost-based pricing to ROI-based pricing (and why it might raise your price by $1,000 or more) * Why knowing your ideal client's transformation is the foundation of every pricing decision * The real reason discounting hurts your business — and what to offer instead in a slower economy * How your brand visuals directly affect what price people are willing to pay (the $45 hat story is one you'll remember) * What an ROI calculator is, why Andee uses one on her sales page, and how she built it using AI tools without coding * How people-pleasing and the need to control client outcomes can silently keep you undercharging * Andee's top pricing tip: why your first price doesn't have to be your forever price EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS [00:00] Jan introduces Part 2 and frames the topic: pricing, guilt, and the fear of thinking too much of yourself [02:14] Why women struggle with pricing more than men — and Proverbs 31 as a biblical foundation for charging what you're worth [04:04] The pricing framework Andee uses with product makers: start with cost of goods, then layer in labor, time, and — most importantly — the buyer's ROI [05:55] Jan gets real: she knows she's underpricing her web design and branding services, and shares the mindset shift she's working through right now [07:10] The critical mistake entrepreneurs make in sales copy — leading with features instead of the transformation — and how to fix it [08:00] Andee's wholesale course example: how she built an ROI calculator into her sales page and why it became a game-changer for conversions [09:40] Why one client avatar isn't enough — and how going deeper into who you serve at each stage of the customer journey changes how you price [11:06] The $45 hat story: how one perfectly branded coffee shop in Franklin, Tennessee made Jan open her wallet immediately — and what that means for your pricing power [13:20] Product makers and packaging: why homemade-looking branding keeps wholesalers off retail shelves, and how branding does the selling when you're not in the room [14:13] The scary investment conversation — why stepping into a big God-given vision requires being brave enough to pay people who can get you there [15:38] Cost vs. worth: the mindset difference between what something costs you and what it's worth to your buyer [17:20] The people-pleasing pricing trap: Andee gets personal about wanting to control client outcomes — and how that tendency quietly caps her prices [18:07] Jan's honest confession about spending thousands on courses she didn't finish — and why the ROI is always on the student, not the creator [20:40] How Andee built her ROI calculator using Canva AI first, then vibe coding tools like Lovable and Base44 — no coding required [23:07] Jan's lightbulb moment: using an ROI calculator as a client-facing tool inside web design projects [25:16] Andee's best pricing tip: don't be afraid to pivot. Survey your clients, raise your rates, and stop treating your launch price as permanent [25:55] Instead of discounting in a tough economy — add payment plans. Don't devalue your work; just make it more accessible [26:51] "You don't want to be Dollar Tree." Why discounting trains your audience to expect discount pricing forever KEY TAKEAWAY "When I am not charging what I'm worth, I am not able to use the gifts that the Lord has given me — because let's be real, it's all a gift from Him — to go do other things that make a kingdom impact." — Andee Hart RESOURCES MENTIONED * 🧮 ROI Calculator approach — Andee started in Canva AI, then moved to vibe coding tools like Lovable and Base44 to build full sales landing pages with built-in calculators (no coding experience required) * 📚 Jonathan Mast's AI landing page course — a low-cost course (~$20) that walks you through using a custom GPT to generate sales page prompts; includes a deliverable prompt you can drop into Lovable or Base44 * 📖 Proverbs 31 — the Andee's go-to scripture for reframing pricing as an act of stewardship, not self-promotion * 🎙️ She Sells Differently — Andee Hart's podcast on counter-cultural sales strategy for female entrepreneurs; includes a recent episode on the entrepreneurship side of Proverbs 31 CONNECT WITH ANDEE HART * 🌐 Website: andeehart.com [https://andeehart.com/] * 📱 Andee's Instagram: @andeehart [https://www.instagram.com/andeehart/] * 🎨 Hart Design Co Instagram: @hartdesignco [https://www.instagram.com/hartdesignco/] * 🛠️ Free resource: Andee's Sales Tools for Entrepreneurs [https://andeehart.com/salestools] — her curated list of favorite tools for selling with more ease and less anxiety MISSED PART 1? Hop back one episode to catch the first half of this conversation — Jan and Andee dig into scarcity mindset, playing small, what the Bible actually says about money, and the 10X Is Easier Than 2X framework that's reshaping how both of them think about their businesses. Marketing Without Social Media is the podcast for Christian women entrepreneurs who want to grow their businesses through owned media — email, website, podcast, and SEO — without being dependent on social platforms. New episodes every week at jantouchberry.com [https://jantouchberry.com/].

124: Scarcity Mindset, Playing Small, and What God Says About Money — with Andee Hart (Part 1)

If you've ever undercharged a client because you needed the money, over-delivered on an offer out of guilt, or held back a product launch because it wasn't quite perfect yet — this episode is for you. In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Jan sits down with her friend and peer mastermind member Andee Hart — sales strategist, mentor, podcast host, and the woman behind She Sells Differently. What started as a candid chat between two Christian women entrepreneurs turned into one of those conversations you have to stop and take notes on. They dig into the scarcity mindset — not as a buzzword, but as something both of them are actively working through in their businesses right now. You'll hear Jan and Andee get honest about the fears that keep women playing small, what the Bible actually says about money and calling, and what it looks like to ruthlessly focus on the work you were made to do instead of the work you can just do. In this episode you'll learn: * Why accepting every client at every price point is actually a scarcity decision — and what it costs you long-term * How over-delivering and underpricing can rob your clients of real investment and ownership in their growth * What Lydia (yes, the Lydia from Acts) can teach us about building wealth as a Christian woman * The 10X vs. 2X framework from 10X Is Easier Than 2X by Dan Sullivan & Benjamin Hardy — and why doing less is often the path to growing more * How perfectionism and distraction are two of the enemy's biggest tools against women entrepreneurs * Why being in a room with people further along than you is one of the highest-leverage things you can do for your business EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS [00:00] Jan introduces Andee Hart and the concept of peer mastermind relationships among Christian women entrepreneurs [02:36] The conversation begins — Andee opens with a question about scarcity mindset and Jan's real experience of taking every low-ticket client just to survive [04:08] Why doing "everything you can do" isn't the same as doing what you should do — and the difference between capacity and calling [09:51] How scarcity mindset shows up specifically for Christian women: underpricing, over-giving, and the fear of charging what you're worth [10:29] Jan gets personal — losing both parents in four years and how grief clarified her sense of calling and stopped her from playing small [11:55] The theological case for not playing small: when we hide our gifts, we rob others of what God intended to serve them through us [13:07] Money, ministry, and the women who funded Jesus' work — a biblical reframe for Christian entrepreneurs who feel guilty about profit [14:13] Lydia, purple dye, and what would have happened if she'd diminished her gifts [16:24] The difference between showing up with excellence and over-delivering — and how to sit with the Lord before you build your offers [19:36] The overthinking loop, the enemy's strategy, and how perfectionism causes inaction for recovering perfectionists (relatable!) [22:04] Jan shares her own current business evolution — letting go of steady retainer income to trust God with the 20% she's truly called to [23:11] Andee recommends 10X Is Easier Than 2X and explains the core idea: ruthlessly eliminate the 80% to do the 20% that actually scales your business [27:32] Being in the room with women further along — why playing up raises your game (the tennis analogy is good) [30:19] Teaser for Part 2: next week, Andee and Jan go deep on pricing — don't miss it KEY TAKEAWAY "When we make little of the gifts that God has given us, we rob others of getting to experience a beautiful gift — a way the Lord has designed to serve them through us. You can still charge someone and serve them well." RESOURCES MENTIONED * 📖 10X Is Easier Than 2X by Dan Sullivan & Benjamin Hardy — the book that reframed how Andee thinks about eliminating low-leverage work * 🎙️ She Sells Differently — Andee Hart's podcast on counter-cultural sales strategy for female entrepreneurs CONNECT WITH ANDEE HART * 🌐 Website: andeehart.com [https://andeehart.com/] * 📱 Andee's Instagram: @andeehart [https://www.instagram.com/andeehart/] * 🎨 Hart Design Co Instagram: @hartdesignco [https://www.instagram.com/hartdesignco/] * 🛠️ Free resource: Andee's Sales Tools for Entrepreneurs [https://andeehart.com/salestools] — a curated list of tools to help you sell with more ease and less anxiety DON'T MISS PART 2 Next week, Jan and Andee pick up right where they left off — and dive into pricing. If you've ever second-guessed your rates, this is the episode you'll want to have saved. Subscribe so you don't miss it. Marketing Without Social Media is the podcast for Christian women entrepreneurs who want to grow their businesses through owned media — email, website, podcast, and SEO — without being dependent on social platforms. New episodes every week at jantouchberry.com [https://jantouchberry.com/].

123: Your Creativity Is Starving — Here's How to Feed It

You've been consistent. Showing up every week, delivering value, doing the work — and somewhere along the way, the creative well got quiet. Not dramatically. It didn't feel like burnout. It felt more like... flatness. Like you were going through motions. If that's you right now, this episode is for you. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN * Why consistent creators hit creative walls (and why it's not a character flaw) * How to do a simple creativity audit that reveals what's actually draining you * Six practical shifts that refill your creative tank without overhauling your life * Why lowering your output temporarily might be the most productive thing you do this month * How the rhythm of rest built into Scripture applies directly to your content business EPISODE TIMESTAMPS * [00:00] Cold open — the quiet well * [02:00] Jan's story: years of podcast-only car rides and what changed * [06:00] The creativity audit — questions to ask yourself honestly * [10:00] Six practical shifts to refill your creative tank * [18:00] The reframe: what the dry spell is actually telling you * [21:00] Collab Task — your two-part action for this week and this month KEY TAKEAWAY / QUOTABLE "The consistent creator doesn't avoid dry spells. She learns to read them — and respond before they become crises." RESOURCES MENTIONED * Psalm 23:2-3 * The Visibility Collab — [jantouchberry.com] * [Any specific book or resource Jan wants to add from her own shift] CALL TO ACTION If your website is part of your owned media strategy and it's not working as hard as it should be, let's talk. Head to jantouchberry.com to learn more about working together.CONNECT WITH JAN: Here are all the best places and FREE stuff 👇🏻 Grab your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠FREE DOWNLOAD⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://jantouchberry.myflodesk.com/proverbs31]S: JanTouchberry.com/opt-in Subscribe to the newsletter [https://jantouchberry.com/newsletter]: http://jantouchberry.com/newsletter FIND ME HERE: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://jantouchberry.com/] - JanToucberry.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.instagram.com/jantouchberry/] - @jantouchberry JOIN THE CONVO: We’d love to hear your thoughts on the episode and its impact on your journey. Use the hashtag #HerFaithAtWork and tag us for a chance to be featured in our next episode. ABOUT THE HOST: Jan Touchberry is a brand strategist, marketing consultant, and founder of The Brand Collaborative. She helps women entrepreneurs build profitable businesses with clear messaging, strategic funnels, and aligned visibility.

122: Behind the Scenes: How I Grew My Email List With a Low-Lift Collaborative Event

You've heard of summits. You've heard of bundles. But what if there's a simpler, lower-lift way to collaborate that still delivers real email list growth — without the two-day video marathon or the elaborate launch plan? That's exactly what the Workflow Exchange was. And in this episode — recorded live at the Grow Without Social online event hosted by Gabe Cox — I'm pulling back the curtain on how it worked, what surprised me, and how you can model something similar in your own business. In this episode you'll learn: * What the Workflow Exchange actually is and why it's different from a traditional summit or bundle * How I organized it, automated it, and kept my own involvement to 10–15 hours total * The opt-in strategy I used so every contributor gained email subscribers (not just the ones attendees selected) * Why I was so intentional about who I invited — and how that directly impacted the results * How to start small if 10 collaborators feels like too much (hint: three business besties is a completely valid starting point) * What I'd do the same — and what I'd simplify — if I ran it again Episode Timestamps: * [00:00] Introduction from Gabe Cox — what the Workflow Exchange is and why this conversation matters * [02:15] My social media journey — from waiting for my Facebook invite to getting completely off the algorithm treadmill * [06:00] The Workflow Exchange explained — the idea behind it, the format, and why I built it this way * [10:45] Results: ~200 new email subscribers per contributor, roughly 10–15 hours of total work * [14:30] The opt-in strategy that made the email growth work — and why I chose it over the traditional "select who you want" model * [17:00] What I'd keep the same vs. what I'd simplify next time (spoiler: my Google Drive folder system got a little out of hand) * [20:30] Turning it evergreen — what that looks like and why simple wins * [23:00] First steps if you want to try something like this in your own business * [26:00] The Visibility Vault — what it is and how to grab it Key Takeaway: "Find your core and then expand out as it feels right. You don't have to go big. Find three of your business besties who have businesses that complement each other and launch it that way." Resources Mentioned: * Visibility Vault Mini Course [https://jantouchberry.com] — Private podcast + companion guide with one action step per episode on organic visibility off social * Gabe Cox — Grow Without Social Event [https://gabecox.com] (host of this conversation) * FlowDesk — email marketing platform Jan uses for automation * Claude AI — used to organize contributors and determine the sequencing of workflow delivery Connect with Jan: Website: jantouchberry.com [https://jantouchberry.com] Podcast: Marketing Without Social Ready to get clients without posting? Your website is your most powerful owned media asset — and if it's not working as hard as you are, that's worth a look. Book a call with Jan [https://jantouchberry.com] to talk about what's possible. Marketing Without Social is the podcast for Christian women entrepreneurs who are done chasing algorithms and ready to build a business on owned media — podcast, email, and website — that keeps working even when life calls you away.

121: Is AI making you (and your website) boring?

You've landed on a website and felt nothing — not turned off, just... nothing. Forgettable copy, a professional tone, and zero sense of who was actually behind it. Here's the uncomfortable question: could someone say the same thing about yours? In a market flooded with AI-generated sameness, the businesses breaking through aren't the loudest or the most polished. They're the ones that feel most human. This episode is about how to be one of them. What you'll learn: * Why AI tools are flattening the internet — and what that means for your brand right now * The "you're my person" question every website visitor is secretly asking * Three specific places your personality has to show up on your website * What "uniquely you" actually means in practice (it's more specific than authentic) * Why your website and email list are the best home for a human brand * Your Collab Task: a two-part website audit you can do in under ten minutes Key takeaway / quotable: "Your website is not a brochure. It's the place where someone who has been looking for their person finally finds out if that's you." Resources mentioned: * jantouchberry.com / The Brand Collaborative — web design and branding for Christian women entrepreneurs * Ep. 102: How Your About Page Can Drive Real Business Growth - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/marketing-without-socials-strategies-beyond-the/id1724459845?i=1000746014968 Scripture reference: * Psalm 139:14 — "I am fearfully and wonderfully made." Call to action: If your website isn't reflecting the real, specific, irreplaceable you — that's the work. Head to jantouchberry.com to start that conversation. CONNECT WITH JAN: Here are all the best places and FREE stuff 👇🏻 Grab your ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠FREE DOWNLOAD⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://jantouchberry.myflodesk.com/proverbs31]S: JanTouchberry.com/opt-in Subscribe to the newsletter [https://jantouchberry.com/newsletter]: http://jantouchberry.com/newsletter FIND ME HERE: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://jantouchberry.com/] - JanToucberry.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://www.instagram.com/jantouchberry/] - @jantouchberry JOIN THE CONVO: We’d love to hear your thoughts on the episode and its impact on your journey. Use the hashtag #HerFaithAtWork and tag us for a chance to be featured in our next episode. ABOUT THE HOST: Jan Touchberry is a brand strategist, marketing consultant, and founder of The Brand Collaborative. She helps women entrepreneurs build profitable businesses with clear messaging, strategic funnels, and aligned visibility.