THE TALE AND THE TONGUE. Rotten Oranges – Rubén Grilo

THE TALE AND THE TONGUE. Rotten Oranges – Rubén Grilo

Rotten Oranges is episode 33, an online conversation with artist Rubén Grilo and Sonia Fernandez Pan, the host of this podcast, in which they talk about technology and art because they are part of his work without being categories that can fully capture it. “The story that opens this podcast reveals how Silicon Valley is connected to any place with an internet connection. It also tells how what is supposed to be outstanding is actually utterly banal. I don't know many people who pay such close attention to how things work: from machines to infrastructures to social and interpersonal relationships. Nor do I know many artists who decide to stop making art because they acknowledge the system is worn out. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that reverse engineering is part of Rubén’s work, understanding how systems are made and how they made us. I also keep asking Rubén lots of questions about technology and capitalism because he explains them in a way that everyone can understand. The title of this podcast has to do with that moment and with Rubén Grilo's way of speaking. To squeeze the rotten oranges, I highly recommend listening to the whole conversation. The rest is just a matter of making the connections.” Sonia Fernandez Pan

THE TALE AND THE TONGUE. Moving Through Layers of Internet – Martins Kohout

Moving Through Layers of Internet is Episode 32, of The Tale and The Tongue, which follows a conversation with artist Martins Kohout and Sonia Fernández Pan, the host of this podcast. “On my way to Martins' house with a recorder from another era, I felt my phone vibrate. Checking to see if there were any messages, there were none. As we were going to talk about technology, this moment became a reminder of common situations with our devices in daily life. I asked Martins to share a personal anecdote about technology that they found relevant. Rather than the appealing myth of eye-opening discoveries, Martins chose to talk about intensities and gradual shifts in our technological habits. The promised world beyond the screen is often not as exciting as we imagined it would be. But the phone is always there for us, ready to comfort us and keep the dopamine flowing… The past is constantly being updated too. Just like with the apps on our phones, it’s very easy to forget about the older versions. This is something Martins reminded me of during a meeting that focused more on how we use things than on how they are made. Our communication methods are not mutually exclusive; they all work together. Just as we don’t speak in the same way to everyone we know or in the different languages we know, we don’t express ourselves in the same way across all the media we use. Following Martins’s observations, this points to a contradiction: demanding that a single social media profile encapsulates who we really are, when actually we are many at once. But I don’t think this is just because of technology.” Sonia Fernández Pan

THE TALE AND THE TONGUE. We Could Not Resist That Call – Laurence Rassel

We Could Not Resist That Call is episode 31 of The Tale and The Tongue, which follows a conversation Laurence Rassel, a “cyberfeminist” and Sonia Fernández Pan, the host of this podcast. “I saw Laurence at Feministaldia in San Sebastián at the end of 2025. She talked about something she calls an open-source institution. Just as we should understand the machines we use by opening them up and seeing what they are made of, we should open institutions to understand how they really work. The question of privilege came up in conversation with Laurence Rassel. Summarizing certain forms of dissent as a privilege is also a way of dismissing the fact that we still have some agency in what we do. Not everyone understands success in the same way, nor does everyone share the same motivations or aspirations. Persisting in these differences is important, precisely to avoid a monopoly of desire. This conversation with Laurence Rassel took place at the end of January 2026. I suggested a trip back in time, to how things were in the 1990s with regard to the internet and the promises of technology. At the end of our meeting, we returned once again to 2003. “I don’t want to be alone in the 21st century,” is something Laurence said back then. Now that we know how lonely we can be while being hyper-connected, perhaps it is time to keep returning to the past — not out of nostalgia for what has been lost, but for what we can still recover." Sonia Fernández Pan

THE TALE AND THE TONGUE. The Globe is Going to the Moon – Yuko Mohri

We are very happy to announce The Globe is Going to the Moon, episode 100 of the podcast series Promise No Promises! and episode 30 of The Tale and the Tongue series. It follows a conversation between Yuko Mohri, an installation artist focusing on “events” that constantly shift according to the environment’s conditions and Sonia Fernández Pan, the host of this podcast series. During my stay in Tokyo, I went to the Artizon Museum with a friend. There we experienced On Physis, an exhibition by Yuko Mohri with artists who appear to be alive even though they are not. I remember the playful movement of Yuko Mohri’s pieces, as well as breaking the rules by taking videos when it was forbidden… I really liked Yuko Mohri’s way of telling stories and the fact that her words included brackets to express her laughs between questions and answers. Drawing on the artist’s ideas, I cannot help but think that our work is a manifestation of what we were or what we would like to be—even when what we do, does not explicitly speak about us, as in the case of Yuko Mohri and many artists I admire. Yuko Mohri’s work Moré Moré Tokyo (Leaky Tokyo) also made me feel connected to her. I sensed what I call “unconscious or unaware communities.” They are made of people who do not know each other but who have things in common. We talked about her relationship with music, invisible forces, electricity, Osaka, her recent exhibitions, Akihabara, Instagram, Venice, how she became an artist, and teaching during the pandemic.

THE TALE AND THE TONGUE. The In-Between – Mafe Moscoso

“The In-Between” is episode 29 of The Tale and the Tongue podcast series. It emerged from several exchanges between Mafe Moscoso, writer, researcher, and anthropology professor at BAU, College of Arts and Design of Barcelona, and former fellow at CAPAS at Universität Heidelberg, and Sonia Fernández Pan, host of this podcast series. “Dear Mafe, Starting from the end – one of our many in-betweens – I’ll answer your question: what was I doing when I was five years old? Like you, I was moving for the first time. I was starting to become Galician—to my great regret at the time. I was sad to realize I would not be Basque. Like you, I didn’t like the change. Just like a plant uprooted against its will, that’s how I felt. The word “in-between,” which keeps resurfacing in our conversations, was already there in 2023—and even before that. I remember how central that idea was in your project for Hangar, for the way it connects to the mestizo. Mestizo is a word that carries your voice to me. Something I had forgotten is that the word “entremedio” in German was the title of a project I did with Lucrecia Dalt at the Lilly Reich and Mies van der Rohe Pavilion in Barcelona. She chose it back then, still living in Berlin: Dazwischen. Sometimes I miss the life without fear or worry that art residencies make possible. I felt at home because, for the first time in a long while, I felt safe. But you define it much better: to live the life of an inheritor. Does that happen to you with Heidelberg? Do you still miss that quiet life? Or perhaps the present demands so much from us now that there’s little time left for longing. your dear Pan”