Main Justice

Andrew and Mary host this week's episode in front of a live audience at Princeton University, starting with the latest in the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case where last Tuesday, Maryland district judge Paula Xinis ordered the Trump administration to provide among other things, “butts in seats” to explain their efforts to get him back. Then they describe what led up to the Supreme Court’s early Saturday decision temporarily blocking the deportation of more Venezuelan migrants, after a flurry of back and forth between the Solicitor General and the ACLU. And being at Andrew’s alma mater, he and Mary hold up the absolute necessity of academic freedom and independence in the wake of Trump’s attempts to defund universities who do not comply with his demands. Last up, they touch on the Supreme Court granting argument in the birthright citizenship cases- not on the merits, but on whether a nationwide injunction is appropriate in this instance. Further reading: HERE [https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca4.178400/gov.uscourts.ca4.178400.8.0.pdf] is Judge Harvie Wilkinson’s sharply worded opinion, writing for a 3-judge panel in the US Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit, rejecting the Trump administrations effort to stop a lower court’s order that the government facilitate Kilmar Abrego Garcia's return. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

The US government’s mistaken removal of Kilmar Abrego Garcia to El Salvador has captured national attention, and it’s as stunning as it is heart breaking. So Mary and Andrew dedicate the bulk of this week’s episode to what’s happened since the Supreme Court ruled that the Trump administration must follow the lower court’s order to facilitate his return. So far, the administration seems to be slow-walking the process, dodging accountability for the fact that Abrego Garcia was never afforded his due process rights, a core American principle. Andrew and Mary go on to explain each consecutive government response, and two habeas petitions that have been granted a TRO since last week's Supreme Court decision. Before wrapping up, they highlight the cancelling of a landmark civil rights deal in Alabama, and Trump’s latest retribution in action-- targeting individuals, the Associated Press and Harvard. Further reading: Here is Mary’s OpEd in the Washington Post: It’s time to compel Justice officials to testify on Abrego García. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/04/14/garcia-xinis-deportation-salvador-ms13/] And please vote for your favorite MSNBC podcasts in this year’s Webby Awards: * Prosecuting Donald Trump in the Podcasts - Crime & Justice category: VOTE HERE [https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2025/podcasts/shows/crime-justice] * Why Is This Happening? With Chris Hayes in the Podcasts - Interview/Talk Show category: VOTE HERE [https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2025/podcasts/shows/interviewtalk-show] * Into America: Uncounted Millions in the Podcasts - News & Politics category: VOTE HERE [https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2025/podcasts/limited-series-specials/news-politics] Voting closes this Thursday, April 17th. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

As the Supreme Court weighs in on the president’s use of the Alien Enemies Act, Mary and Andrew approach this week's developments with both concern and relief. While relieved at the unanimity of the High Court’s belief that due process is a necessity, the concern lies with the Trump administration's response to a court order directing them to arrange the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man who was wrongfully deported to El Salvador. They also see cause for alarm after the government retaliated against their own lawyer in this case. Andrew and Mary then take a beat to spotlight the DC circuit upholding a judge’s decision related to scope of Trump’s J6 pardons. And before closing out this week’s episode, they detail the lawsuit brought by the conservative leaning NCLA over the constitutionality of the sweeping tariffs the president has announced. Further reading: This is Mary’s recent op Ed in the Washington Post: The White House war on Big Law hits some speed bumps [https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/04/07/trump-war-biglaw-lawyers-law-firms/] And please vote for your favorite MSNBC podcasts in this year’s Webby Awards: * Prosecuting Donald Trump in the Podcasts - Crime & Justice category: VOTE HERE [https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2025/podcasts/shows/crime-justice] * Why Is This Happening? With Chris Hayes in the Podcasts - Interview/Talk Show category: VOTE HERE [https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2025/podcasts/shows/interviewtalk-show] * Into America: Uncounted Millions in the Podcasts - News & Politics category: VOTE HERE [https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2025/podcasts/limited-series-specials/news-politics] Voting closes April 17th. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

Six emergency applications have now made their way to the Supreme Court concerning President Trump’s executive orders, so Andrew and Mary begin this episode by breaking down the emergency stay motions in several key cases involving birthright citizenship, federal workers, the use of the Alien Enemies Act and canceling education grants. Then, after a review of Trump’s latest law firm blacklist targets and the problematic nature of targeting of universities and students, they focus on an executive order aiming to change how U.S. elections are run. And last up, Andrew and Mary decry the lack of accountability over Signalgate, as Trump resists doling out any consequences to his senior National Security leadership. For more on Trump’s continued attacks on universities, check out the latest episode of Trumpland with Alex Wagner [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-columbia-got-trumped/id1638974657?i=1000701158149] about the fallout at Columbia University and maintaining free speech on campus. Further reading: Here is the order from the DC Circuit Court of Appeals [https://separate%20concurring%20statements%20of%20judge%20henderson%20and%20judge%20millett%20and%20a%20dissenting%20statement%20of%20judge%20walker/] over Judge Boasberg’s TRO pausing deportations under the Alien Enemies Act, which includes separate concurring statements of Judge Henderson and Judge Millett and a dissenting statement of Judge Walker. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

On this week’s episode, Andrew and Mary start with the major capitulation of the Paul, Wiess law firm to Trump’s demands late last week, in exchange for rescinding an EO targeting the firm. This is the chilling effect they’ve been talking about in action. Then: what are the consequences of the Trump administration defying court orders from US District Chief Judge James Boasberg? The deportation of Venezuelan migrants without due process seems to be careening into that constitutional question, so Andrew and Mary break down the latest on that case, as the government invokes the “state secrets privilege”. And lastly, they detail the legal issues surrounding the now-infamous Signal chat reported by The Atlantic- an extraordinary demonstration of gross negligence when it comes to national defense information.  Further reading:  * Here is Mary’s piece on Just Security: Dissecting the Trump Administration’s Strategy for Defying Court Orders [https://www.justsecurity.org/109522/trump-administrations-strategy-defying-court-orders/] * And here is Andrew’s piece, also from Just Security: The New “Blacklists” Work When Law Firms Stay Silent [https://www.justsecurity.org/109461/blacklists-work-when-law-firms-stay-silent/] * And here is the criminal code Andrew and Mary referenced: 18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information [https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793] Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.