The Ambition Penalty: Why Women Get Punished for Asking

The Ambition Penalty: Why Women Get Punished for Asking

What if your burnout isn't a personal failure — but a systemic one? Award-winning journalist Stefanie O'Connell joins Leslie to unpack The Ambition Penalty. 📕 Get Stefanie's book: https://tooambitious.com/book/ [https://tooambitious.com/book/] 💧 Ready to move through your divorce with structure and support? Explore THROUGH, Leslie's 8-week coaching program → https://theloomlife.com/throughdivorceprogram [https://theloomlife.com/throughdivorceprogram] ────────────── In this conversation, Stefanie pulls back the curtain on what the research actually shows about why women — across industries, identities, and life stages — are still systematically held back at work and at home. Her book draws on more than 450 academic citations to dismantle the most persistent myth in modern gender inequality: that women just need to lean in harder, negotiate better, or believe in themselves more. Leslie and Stefanie talk about the data on backlash against women who ask for raises, the 30+ identity characteristics that get weaponized against women in hiring decisions, why the home — not the office — is where most women's burnout actually originates, and the 400-hour-per-year personal leisure gap between U.S. men and women. They also unpack the quiet shift from collective empowerment to individualistic self-help, why the pay gap hasn't budged in 20 years, and what a meaningful collective response actually looks like. This is essential listening for any woman who is over being overworked — but not over her ambition. ─── Timestamps ─── 00:00 Introduction to Stefanie O'Connell 01:15 From theater to financial journalism 04:14 The myth that women lack ambition 06:30 Why the research has been hiding in plain sight 07:01 When negotiating backfires for women 09:24 The hidden biases keeping women out of leadership 12:20 Why ambition is viewed differently in men and women 15:05 The importance of examining our own biases 15:53 What surprised Stefanie most in the data 16:30 The unpaid labor gap and women's burnout 18:45 Leslie shares her personal career and marriage story 22:08 How family dynamics shape workplace culture 24:39 The invisible workload of stay-at-home mothers 26:00 Choosing a partner who supports your ambitions 27:00 Why community support matters more than ever 28:27 The danger of turning systemic problems into personal failures 30:45 Why collective solutions create lasting change 34:40 Entrepreneurship, coaching, and gender bias 36:50 Why women are often judged differently when charging for their expertise 38:00 Building resilience through community and collective action 39:30 Modeling healthy relationships and ambition for our children 41:40 The loneliness epidemic and rebuilding connection 44:00 Why data matters in conversations about women’s experiences 45:30 The gaslighting women experience around work and ambition 46:50 What meaningful collective action actually looks like 48:00 Why progress on the pay gap has stalled 50:20 The growing hostility toward women in the workplace 52:35 A message for ambitious women who feel exhausted 53:35 Building community instead of carrying shame 54:05 Where to find Stefanie and her book 55:00 Final reflections and closing thoughts ────────────── 🧵 ABOUT PULLING THREADS Pulling Threads with Leslie Mathews is a podcast about untangling the patterns, stories, and systems that keep us stuck — and weaving something more authentic in their place. New episodes weekly. 🌐 Connect with Leslie: • Website: https://theloomlife.com [https://theloomlife.com] • Therapy: https://loomlifetherapy.com [https://loomlifetherapy.com] • Personal site: https://leslieellenmathews.com [https://leslieellenmathews.com] • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the.loom.life [https://www.instagram.com/the.loom.life] • TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@leslieellenmathews [https://www.tiktok.com/@leslieellenmathews] 📕 Connect with Stefanie O'Connell: • Book — The Ambition Penalty: https://tooambitious.com/book/ [https://tooambitious.com/book/] • Substack (Too Ambitious): https://tooambitious.substack.com/ [https://tooambitious.substack.com/] • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stefanieoconnell/ [https://www.instagram.com/stefanieoconnell/] • TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@stefaniemoconnell [https://www.tiktok.com/@stefaniemoconnell] ────────────── If this episode resonated, please leave a 5-star rating and share it with one woman in your life who needs to hear it. #TheAmbitionPenalty #WomenAndWork #PullingThreadsPodcast #BurnoutRecovery #StefanieOConnell

Touch Hunger: The Loneliness No One Warns Divorced Men About

Touch hunger is the loneliness no one warns divorced men about — when the isolation stops being emotional and becomes physical. (For the Boys, Round 10.) 🧭 Work with Leslie 1:1. Book a free discovery call → [INSERT DIRECT BOOKING LINK] Coaching: theloomlife.com Leslie: leslieellenmathews.com Therapy (FL): loomlifetherapy.com ↓ SHOW MORE CUTOFF — keep everything above this line above the fold ↓ In this episode, Leslie names something the men’s content space and even the therapy world tend to skip: touch hunger (or skin hunger) — the measurable, physical toll of going from a partner’s daily touch to none, sometimes overnight. She walks through what a touch-starved nervous system actually reaches for after divorce (rebound relationships, dating apps at midnight, alcohol, and the modern consolations), what the history and clinical research say about paid companionship and platonic touch therapy, and why most of it treats the symptom rather than the cause. Then she dreams out loud: what a real, trauma-informed concierge support structure for men in the first 12–18 months after a marriage ends could look like — and asks you to weigh in. This is a longer, no-compromises conversation, and your comments are the point. 💬 A note on support If the loneliness has gotten heavy, you’re not weak and you’re not alone — reaching out is the strong move. In the U.S. you can call or text 988 anytime to reach the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline. If you’re ready for steady, structured support through the season, the discovery call link above is a good first step. ⏱️ CHAPTERS (timestamps estimated — see verification note) 0:00 What this episode is (and why it goes there) 2:00 Touch hunger / skin hunger: what your nervous system is doing 4:00 Why the touch disappeared overnight 5:00 What men reach for first: rebound, apps, alcohol, the ex 6:00 OnlyFans and parasocial intimacy: renting a partner 9:00 Sugar-baby / arrangement apps and the hidden cost 11:00 A short history of paid companionship 14:00 How other countries handle this — and what the research says 16:00 Professional cuddling / platonic touch therapy 19:00 Medicine or anesthesia? The judgment is in the use 20:00 A dream: a concierge support structure for men 23:00 Why virtual-only and clean boundaries are a feature 26:00 A men’s track vs. a women’s track — and a question for you 🔗 Connect Instagram: @the.loom.life TikTok: @leslieellenmathews ▶️ Related from For the Boys Round 7 — the disclosure relationship (referenced in this episode): [INSERT EP 7 URL] Keywords: touch hunger, skin hunger, loneliness after divorce, men’s mental health, life coach for men after divorce, coping with divorce loneliness, how men heal after breakup, men’s personal growth after divorce #ForTheBoys #DivorceRecovery #MensMentalHealth #LonelinessAfterDivorce #PullingThreads

Reclaiming Your Voice After Religious Trauma | Kate Johnson

What happens when the systems that raised you also silenced you? In this episode, memoirist and survivor advocate Kate Johnson joins Leslie to talk about religious trauma, purity culture, and the long road of finding your voice after a lifetime of being told to stay quiet. Kate grew up a pastor's daughter inside the PCA evangelical church, where Calvinist teachings around "total depravity" merged with authoritarian parenting to create a childhood organized around shame, obedience, and performance. When her family was placed on the sex offender registry, she learned a second, deeper lesson: her safety lay in her silence. This conversation traces what it took to undo that — through writing, embodiment, estrangement, anger, and the slow reclaiming of identity. Whether you're deconstructing your faith, healing from purity culture, navigating estrangement, or just trying to reconnect with your own voice after years of self-silencing — this one is for you. ─── WORK WITH LESLIE ─── THROUGH — 8-week divorce recovery program: https://theloomlife.com/throughdivorceprogram [https://theloomlife.com/throughdivorceprogram] 1:1 Coaching & Therapy: https://theloomlife.com [https://theloomlife.com] Book a discovery call: https://theloomlife.com [https://theloomlife.com] ─── CONNECT WITH KATE ─── Substack (Quips & Confessionals): https://katejohnsonwrites.substack.com [https://katejohnsonwrites.substack.com] Instagram: @katejohnsonwrites TikTok: @katejohnsonwrites Threads: @katejohnsonwrites Bluesky: @katejohnsonwrites ─── CHAPTERS ─── 00:00 Welcome & introducing Kate 02:30 Trapeze as healing & reclaiming the inner child 06:30 Growing up a pastor's daughter (PCA & Calvinism) 11:00 "You are bad" — how religious shame forms core beliefs 13:30 Parenting across generations: authoritarian to conscious 18:30 Why kids in divorce need their own therapist 23:30 Voice as savior: from buried to spoken 25:30 The sex offender registry: when silence becomes safety 30:00 What most people don't understand about the registry 35:30 Why women stay: shame, survival & "Conjuring the Hurricane" 42:00 Family courts, custody & protecting children 46:30 Purity culture, bisexuality & leaving evangelicalism 51:30 Estrangement, boundaries & what repentance really means 55:30 Embodiment, grounding & coming home to the body 59:30 Reiki, The Artist's Way & reconnecting to creativity 1:03:00 Anger as a signal & reclaiming identity 1:08:00 Quips & Confessionals: humor as reclamation 1:12:00 Final message: trust your body, use your voice ─── FOLLOW THE LOOM LIFE ─── Website: https://theloomlife.com [https://theloomlife.com] Therapy: https://loomlifetherapy.com [https://loomlifetherapy.com] Leslie's site: https://leslieellenmathews.com [https://leslieellenmathews.com] Instagram: @the.loom.life TikTok: @leslieellenmathews ─── DISCLAIMER ─── This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for therapy, medical care, or professional mental health treatment. If you are in crisis, please contact a licensed provider or call/text 988 in the U.S. Keywords: religious trauma podcast, purity culture recovery, evangelical deconstruction, healing religious trauma, pastor's daughter, finding your voice, embodiment after trauma, complex PTSD, mental health podcast for women, trauma healing stories podcast #ReligiousTrauma #HealingAfterTrauma #IdentityWork #SelfTrust #PullingThreads

Blindsided by Divorce: Why Men Don’t See It Coming

If she left and you never saw it coming, you’re not broken — and you’re not alone. Book a free discovery call → theloomlife.com In this “For the Boys” episode, Leslie Mathews — former attorney turned coach — unpacks one of the most common experiences divorced men share in private: “I didn’t see it coming.” Meanwhile, on the other side of that sentence, his wife is certain she’d been telling him for years. How can both be true? Around 65–75% of U.S. divorces are initiated by women, and the number climbs in the “gray divorce” (over-40s and over-50s) demographic. Leslie researched what’s actually happening underneath the so-called “walk-away wife” phenomenon — and found five dynamics that explain the blindsiding, with respect for both sides. This isn’t about blame. It’s about turning a confusing loss into a knowable pattern you can understand, grieve, and — if you choose — do differently next time. Whether you’re post-divorce or still inside a marriage you want to save, this conversation gives you language and a way forward. Inside this episode: The Complaint–Decision Asymmetry — why the day her complaining stopped was the loudest signal, not peace Selective hearing and the avoidant nervous system — how years of “I’m not happy” register as background noise The cultural script that treated logistics as love — and mistook structure for substance Hearing vs. taking seriously — the hardest one, and the difference that quietly ends marriages Grief asymmetry — why she can seem “cold” when she’s actually already finished grieving Plus: what to do now — the one question to ask if you’re still in your marriage, and how to become a different kind of listener. → Work with Leslie (1:1 coaching): theloomlife.com → Florida therapy clients: loomlifetherapy.com → Book a free discovery call: [INSERT DIRECT BOOKING LINK — see verification box] This is part of a three-episode set for men. Listen alongside Episode 6 (anger and the grief underneath it) and Episode 7 (men and friendships / building support). They can be heard in any order. Connect with Leslie: Websites: theloomlife.com · loomlifetherapy.com · leslieellenmathews.com Instagram: @the.loom.life · TikTok: @leslieellenmathews If section four landed for you, drop a comment — other men are reading, and they need to know they’re not alone. #DivorceForMen #GrayDivorce #DivorceRecovery #MensMentalHealth #LifeAfterDivorce 00:00 Welcome — “I didn’t see it coming” 02:00 How both things can be true (Leslie’s own divorce) 03:30 The stats: women initiate 65–75% of divorces 04:00 The “walk-away wife” phenomenon — used carefully 07:00 This isn’t blame: what to know before the five 08:00 #1 The Complaint–Decision Asymmetry 11:00 #2 Selective hearing & the avoidant nervous system 12:30 #3 The cultural script: logistics vs. feeling 14:30 #4 Hearing vs. taking it seriously 18:30 #5 Grief asymmetry — why she seems “cold” 20:30 What to do: recognition without shame 21:30 The grief work + Episodes 6 & 7 23:00 Still in the marriage? Ask the separate question 24:00 Real compromise: meeting needs without losing yourself 27:00 Post-divorce: become a different kind of listener 28:30 Closing & how to work with Leslie

Trauma Bonds, Abandonment & Unsafe Love | Petrona Joseph

Why do we keep choosing partners who hurt us? In this episode, mental health advocate and author Petrona Joseph joins Leslie to unpack trauma bonds, unsafe love, and the abandonment wound that drives the loop. ▶ WORK WITH LESLIE 8-week divorce recovery program — THROUGH: https://theloomlife.com/throughdivorceprogram [https://theloomlife.com/throughdivorceprogram] 1:1 coaching with Leslie: https://theloomlife.com [https://theloomlife.com] ▶ ABOUT THIS EPISODE Petrona Joseph spent years pushing through panic attacks, depression, and a 17-year on-and-off relationship she now recognizes as a trauma bond. In this conversation she shares the moment her anxiety stopped her on a bridge in rush hour, why she resisted antidepressants for a decade, and how a primary caregiver's absence early in life shaped the unsafe partners she kept choosing as an adult. Leslie and Petrona dig into the neuroscience of trauma bonds (why they feel exactly like love), what "closing the loop" of a childhood wound actually looks like in adult relationships, and why most men in their 40s, 50s, and 60s still don't have a single safe person to talk to. This one is for anyone who has watched themselves return — over and over — to a person who keeps hurting them, and is starting to wonder if it's something deeper than love. ▶ WHAT YOU'LL LEARN Why trauma bonds get mistaken for love — and the biological reason the pull is so strong How an abandonment wound from childhood shapes who you're attracted to as an adult The difference between an unsafe person and someone who is just imperfect What it looked like for Petrona to finally accept a depression diagnosis after years of resistance Why "experiential" mental health advocacy matters alongside clinical expertise The state of men's mental health and why most men have no safe people ▶ ABOUT THE GUEST Petrona Joseph is an award-winning Communications Strategist, Presidential Lifetime Achievement Award recipient, and MHFA-certified Mental Health Workshop Facilitator. A trilingual Concordia University graduate in Linguistics, she is the author of Stigmatized: Demystifying Mental Health Illness and the upcoming Unsafe Love: Healing From Trauma Bonds, Betrayal, and Unsafe Attachment. Through Above Healing and Wellness, she has reached over 10,000 people across North America with workshops on resilience and early intervention. Timestamp: 00:00 Welcome Petrona Joseph 02:10 Thinking in French and growing up multilingual 05:05 From Trinidad to Grenada, New York, and Montreal 08:20 Ambition, law school, and ignoring mental health 13:30 Luxury cars, PR, TV, and finding a new path 19:45 Becoming “the annoying best friend” in PR 22:00 Anxiety attacks and the beginning of advocacy 30:10 The bridge panic attack that changed everything 36:20 Accepting medication and getting support 43:00 Healing is not a one-time fix 49:30 When anxiety affects everyday life 56:00 Going public about panic attacks 1:02:00 Writing about depression and mental health 1:08:00 Unsafe Love and trauma bonds 1:15:30 Why trauma bonds feel like love 1:24:00 Childhood wounds and repeating patterns 1:33:30 Attachment, abandonment, and trying to close the loop 1:43:00 When relationships become a place for healing 1:56:00 What secure love and repair can look like 2:10:00 Building psychologically safe relationships and cultures 2:18:30 Becoming a safe person after unsafe patterns 2:28:00 Mental health crisis support and men’s mental health 2:40:00 Why men need safe spaces too 2:52:00 Petrona’s books and where to find her 2:57:00 Closing reflections and goodbye Follow Petrona on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iampetronajoseph [https://www.instagram.com/iampetronajoseph] ▶ CONNECT WITH LESLIE Website: https://theloomlife.com [https://theloomlife.com] Therapy practice: https://loomlifetherapy.com [https://loomlifetherapy.com] Personal site: https://leslieellenmathews.com [https://leslieellenmathews.com] Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the.loom.life [https://www.instagram.com/the.loom.life] TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@leslieellenmathews [https://www.tiktok.com/@leslieellenmathews] ▶ IF THIS EPISODE HELPED Subscribe, leave a 5-star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and share this episode with someone you think needs to hear it. Reviews are how new listeners find the show. #TraumaBonds #UnsafeLove #MentalHealthPodcast #DivorceRecovery #AbandonmentWound #AvoidantAttachment #PullingThreads