Interview Series: Andrew Bray on how the Temporary Visa Program Works, and Doesn't Work, for Landscaping Companies

Interview Series: Andrew Bray on how the Temporary Visa Program Works, and Doesn't Work, for Landscaping Companies

Upcoming Events: Join Us for a GLC Field Trip (Dayton, OH - Multiple Options in 2026!) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips] Level Up Your Sales Manager at Virtual Sales Manager Bootcamp (July 8-9, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-manager-bootcamp] Connect with Fellow ACE Members at ACE Discovery (Tucson, AZ - November 17-20, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-connect] Master Aspire Software at the GLC Aspire Workshop (Dayton, OH - August TBD & December 2-3, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-aspire-workshop-landscape-software-training] Register for GROW! 2027 Annual Conference (Savannah, GA - February 17-19, 2027) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/about-grow] Episode #172 In this episode, Marty Grunder is joined by National Association of Landscape Professional's [https://www.landscapeprofessionals.org] SVP of Government Relations and Membership Andrew Bray to talk about the H-2B program and how it impacts landscaping companies' ability to field a full, skilled team each year. They talk about the history of the program, why it works the way that it does, and what fixes are on the table to allow for a more stable program. H-2B Resources and Advocacy: * National Association of Landscape Professionals (NALP) [https://www.landscapeprofessionals.org] * Join NALP [https://www.landscapeprofessionals.org/LP/Membership/LP/MembershipLanding.aspx?utm_source=nalp-website&utm_medium=300x250-ad&utm_campaign=membership-join] * Take Action: Voices for Healthy Green Spaces [https://www.landscapeprofessionals.org/LP/Advocacy/LP/Advocacy/Action_Center.aspx?hkey=31154c6f-2826-4a4d-a7c5-a9694cc2b071] * Sign Up for "The Edge” Weekly Newsletter from NALP [https://blog.landscapeprofessionals.org/] BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com] is an AI-powered takeoff and estimating platform that automates the most time-consuming parts of bidding work. Contractors report up to 65% reduction in takeoff time and 3-5x more bids submitted per estimator. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Leave a Review for the Grow Show! [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grow-show/id1683205964] ️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️  Subscribe to Our Youtube Channel! [https://www.youtube.com/c/TheGrowGroup] Key Learnings H-2B Is Capped at 66,000 Visas Per Year, but Demand Is Double That: This year alone, around 130,000 petitions were filed for the April 1 tranche of 33,000 visas. The lottery system runs through letters A through H, and if you land in D or later, you are likely not getting workers. The Landscape Industry Is the Largest User of H-2B by Far: Landscape pros make up about 40% of all H-2B users. The next closest is hospitality at 12 to 13%. The program is built for seasonal work and the landscape industry is its biggest beneficiary. Each H-2B Worker Supports Roughly Four US Jobs: A GAO study found that communities with more H-2B workers had higher median wages than communities without. This program does not take US jobs. It expands them. The Prevailing Wage Is Set by the Department of Labor, Not the Employer: Grunder's H-2B prevailing wage is $18.75. That means they cannot hire anyone, including their own kids, for less than that. It is a fallacy that this is a capitalistic move to pay workers less. Do Not Try to File H-2B Yourself: This is not the same as immigration law. Use a reputable firm. NALP has a list of strategic providers on its website. One wrong move and you are cooked. H-2B Should Never Be More Than 40% of Your Workforce: If you are over that, you have hit the critical danger zone. Build relationships with veteran groups, community colleges, federal prisons, and other recruiting channels. The program is one piece of the workforce puzzle, not the entire solution. The Trump Administration Released All 64,716 Supplemental Visas This Year: This was a major win for the industry. NALP went to Mar-a-Lago to advocate in person. The lesson: in-person conversations change outcomes in ways email and social media never will. The Certified Seasonal Employer Program Could Be a Game Changer: If passed in FY27, employers with five consecutive years of clean H-2B use would be guaranteed their highest historical visa count without going through the lottery. The language is already in the House appropriations bill. Get Informed, Then Take Action: Sign up for The Advocate newsletter. When you see an action alert, click the link and submit the pre-drafted letter to your congressman. It takes under 60 seconds. Recruit Non-Traditional Allies: Your business clients, your homeowners, your local officials. Help them understand what is at stake. The more people aware of how H-2B works, the more the political conversation shifts. Talk to Your Senators and Representatives in Person: They will listen, even to small business owners. You do not need to run a $50 million company to get a meeting. Marty got Senator Husted's staff on a call. You can too. Reflection Questionshttps://www.theinnovationspeaker.com 1. What percentage of your workforce relies on H-2B? Are you in the safe zone, the gray zone, or the critical danger zone above 40%? 2. When was the last time you contacted your senator or congressman about an issue affecting your business? What is stopping you? 3. Beyond H-2B, what non-traditional recruiting channels (veterans, community colleges, prison reentry programs) have you explored in your community? Additional Resources: BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com]  Aspire [https://www.youraspire.com/?utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_exact_home&utm_medium=paid-search&utm_source=google&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_content=shd_test_dynt_dem_07172025_1&cid=701PM00000xXXZLYA4&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_brand_CPC&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid-search&hsa_acc=6234924545&hsa_cam=20348537411&hsa_grp=151852382620&hsa_ad=764457471967&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-465561275476&hsa_kw=aspire%20landscaping&hsa_mt=e&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20348537411&gbraid=0AAAAACs4TKNhCCUGHmIFAgHBIX-Sq_QpX&gclid=CjwKCAiAqprNBhB6EiwAMe3yhjVg1CQXwPCwt3VFpD_EbcAau_BnKyia5WAEj2XyNaCnKQ0-nWo77xoC3JIQAvD_BwE] ACE Peer Groups [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-peer-groups] Virtual Sales Bootcamp [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-bootcamp]   Grunder Landscaping Field Trips [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips]   https://www.growgroupinc.com/grow-2025The Grow Group [https://www.growgroupinc.com/]    Grunder Landscaping [https://grunderlandscaping.com/]    Marty Grunder LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/martygrunder/]

Become a Great Place to Work and Watch the Right People Stay | Marty Grunder

Upcoming Events: Join Us for a GLC Field Trip (Dayton, OH - Multiple Options in 2026!) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips] Level Up Your Sales Manager at Virtual Sales Manager Bootcamp (July 8-9, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-manager-bootcamp] Connect with Fellow ACE Members at ACE Discovery (Tucson, AZ - November 17-20, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-connect] Master Aspire Software at the GLC Aspire Workshop (Dayton, OH - August TBD & December 2-3, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-aspire-workshop-landscape-software-training] Register for GROW! 2027 Annual Conference (Savannah, GA - February 17-19, 2027) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/about-grow] Episode #171 Everyone talks about recruiting. But what about retention? In this episode of The Grow Show, Marty Grunder breaks down one of the most critical and often overlooked drivers of success in the landscaping industry: keeping great people. Drawing on 40+ years of experience, Marty shares why the easiest employee to hire is the one you never lose, and how building a strong culture, developing leaders, and creating real opportunities for growth can transform your team. BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com] is an AI-powered takeoff and estimating platform that automates the most time-consuming parts of bidding work. Contractors report up to 65% reduction in takeoff time and 3-5x more bids submitted per estimator. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Leave a Review for the Grow Show! [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grow-show/id1683205964] ️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️  Subscribe to Our Youtube Channel! [https://www.youtube.com/c/TheGrowGroup] Key Learnings Retention Starts with Culture, Not Wages: Ask yourself, would you want your son or daughter to work here? Would you want to work for you? Culture is not what you write on the wall. It is how people feel on Sunday night before they come into work Monday morning. Culture Eats Strategy for Breakfast: Peter Drucker had it right. Whatever the plan is, culture decides whether it actually happens. Get the culture right and everything else has a chance. Every Manager Owns Retention: HR is not a department. It is a mindset. People quit managers. Every leader has to be able to coach, mentor, train, and address conflict. That is not the HR department's job. It is leadership. Chastise in Private, Praise in Public, and Do It Swiftly: If there is an issue, handle it privately and quickly. If something good happens, call it out specifically in front of everyone. Move fast on both. If It Is Not Written Down, It Did Not Happen: Document every conflict, every conversation, every coaching moment. Jean Seawright [%20http%3A/www.seawright.com/bio.html] has been teaching this for over 25 years. You need it legally, and you need it to see patterns. Hire Slow, Fire Fast, and Get the Bad Apples Out: Every hire is either impressing or depressing. The longer a bad apple stays, the more damage they do. Park a truck if you have to, but get them out and debrief afterward to learn. Give People a Future or Someone Else Will: The best people want more responsibility, opportunity, and growth. Career paths, reviews, promotions, training. The best reason to grow your company is to create opportunities for ambitious people. Be a Lazy River, Not a Raging River or Stagnant Pond: A raging river exhausts everyone. A stagnant pond suffocates them. A lazy river has steady, organized, controlled growth where people are moving but can still catch their breath. Appreciation Does Not Have to Be Expensive: Grunder spent $600 on burgers for the whole team. Marty cooks. Show up at morning stretch. Know their names. Sing happy birthday. Pass out the first paycheck. People want to know they have done a good job. Do What You Said You Would Do: DWYWYWD. If you promised training, deliver it. If you promised a raise for certification, pay it. One broken promise undoes months of goodwill. Retention is built on trust. The Number One Way to Recruit Great People Is to Become a Great Place to Work: Stop focusing so much on the people you need to hire and start paying attention to the people you already have. They are your greatest asset. Reflection Questionshttps://www.theinnovationspeaker.com 1. Would you want your son or daughter to work for you? If not, what specifically needs to change? 2. When was the last time you followed through on something you promised your team? When was the last time you broke a promise? 3. Is your company a raging river, a stagnant pond, or a lazy river? What would your team say if you asked them? Additional Resources: BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com]  Aspire [https://www.youraspire.com/?utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_exact_home&utm_medium=paid-search&utm_source=google&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_content=shd_test_dynt_dem_07172025_1&cid=701PM00000xXXZLYA4&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_brand_CPC&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid-search&hsa_acc=6234924545&hsa_cam=20348537411&hsa_grp=151852382620&hsa_ad=764457471967&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-465561275476&hsa_kw=aspire%20landscaping&hsa_mt=e&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20348537411&gbraid=0AAAAACs4TKNhCCUGHmIFAgHBIX-Sq_QpX&gclid=CjwKCAiAqprNBhB6EiwAMe3yhjVg1CQXwPCwt3VFpD_EbcAau_BnKyia5WAEj2XyNaCnKQ0-nWo77xoC3JIQAvD_BwE] ACE Peer Groups [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-peer-groups] Virtual Sales Bootcamp [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-bootcamp]   Grunder Landscaping Field Trips [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips]   https://www.growgroupinc.com/grow-2025The Grow Group [https://www.growgroupinc.com/]    Grunder Landscaping [https://grunderlandscaping.com/]    Marty Grunder LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/martygrunder/]

Interview Series: Loren McIrvin of Allied Landscape on Commercial Landscape Maintenance

Upcoming Events: Join Us for a GLC Field Trip (Dayton, OH - Multiple Options in 2026!) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips] Level Up Your Sales Manager at Virtual Sales Manager Bootcamp (July 8-9, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-manager-bootcamp] Connect with Fellow ACE Members at ACE Discovery (Tucson, AZ - November 17-20, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-connect] Master Aspire Software at the GLC Aspire Workshop (Dayton, OH - August TBD & December 2-3, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-aspire-workshop-landscape-software-training] Register for GROW! 2027 Annual Conference (Savannah, GA - February 17-19, 2027) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/about-grow] Episode #170 In this episode, Loren talks about his background in the industry and his approach to commercial landscaping. He believes landscapes should be treated as managed assets and that we should be focused on how we add value for customers. This interview is full of great insight for landscaping companies who want to focus on enhancement sales. BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com] is an AI-powered takeoff and estimating platform that automates the most time-consuming parts of bidding work. Contractors report up to 65% reduction in takeoff time and 3-5x more bids submitted per estimator. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Leave a Review for the Grow Show! [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grow-show/id1683205964] ️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️  Subscribe to Our Youtube Channel! [https://www.youtube.com/c/TheGrowGroup] Key Learnings Stop Selling Maintenance, Start Managing Assets: Property managers already think about HVAC, paving, and building envelopes as assets. The landscape industry's messaging on this is weak. Reframe landscapes as managed assets and you change the entire conversation. Messaging Has to Hit the Team Before the Client: If your team is not bought into the concept of building meaningful landscapes and great partnerships, the message will not land with clients. Culture has to be simplified around adding value, not selling. Property Managers Hire You for Three Things: Reduce risk, identify opportunity, and make their job easy. That's it. Everything else is secondary. The mention of slip and falls, compliance issues, and operating expense matters more than aesthetics. Use a One, Three, and Five Year Roadmap: Long-range plans help clients budget, help them justify spending to stakeholders, and stop you from chasing reactive proposals. Combine that with annual sales campaigns and your year sells itself. Three Calendars Have to Overlap: Operational calendar (when you have capacity), horticultural calendar (when the work should happen), and customer mindset calendar (when they're thinking about it). Miss any one and the campaign falls flat. Humble First, Trusted Second, Advisor Third: Most companies skip straight to advisor and end up with commission breath. Humble means turning down the blower when someone walks by and listening more than talking. Trusted means doing what you say. Advisor comes last and takes years. Start Every Meeting with Maintenance, Not Enhancements: Arrive an hour early, walk the property with the production manager, and open the meeting with the work orders you have already created. Once you've earned the right, then talk enhancements. Skip this and you have commission breath. Protect the Quarterback: Operations exists to clear the field so account managers can run plays. Site walks should be prepped in advance so the conversation can move to value, not chase complaints. Enhancement sales is a team sport. If We See It, They Pay. If They See It, We Pay: The job is to notice issues before the client does. That's how trust and leverage are built. The minute a client has to point something out, you have lost both. Hire Slow and Fire Fast Applies to Clients Too: Allied uses the first 90 days of a new contract to assess fit. They have walked away from $500K HOA contracts when the partnership was not right. Bad clients drain operations more than they pay. The Future of Landscape Maintenance Is Not Maintenance, It's Landscape Management: This shift in language alone changes how clients think about the work, how teams approach it, and how budgets get built. Reflection Questionshttps://www.theinnovationspeaker.com 1. When a client looks at the work you do, do they see maintenance vendors or asset managers? What would need to change for them to see you differently? 2. Are your account managers walking properties before meetings, or are they walking in and asking questions they should already have the answers to? 3. When was the last time you walked away from a client who was not a good partnership fit? What would it free up for your team if you did? Additional Resources: BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com]  Aspire [https://www.youraspire.com/?utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_exact_home&utm_medium=paid-search&utm_source=google&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_content=shd_test_dynt_dem_07172025_1&cid=701PM00000xXXZLYA4&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_brand_CPC&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid-search&hsa_acc=6234924545&hsa_cam=20348537411&hsa_grp=151852382620&hsa_ad=764457471967&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-465561275476&hsa_kw=aspire%20landscaping&hsa_mt=e&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20348537411&gbraid=0AAAAACs4TKNhCCUGHmIFAgHBIX-Sq_QpX&gclid=CjwKCAiAqprNBhB6EiwAMe3yhjVg1CQXwPCwt3VFpD_EbcAau_BnKyia5WAEj2XyNaCnKQ0-nWo77xoC3JIQAvD_BwE] ACE Peer Groups [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-peer-groups] Virtual Sales Bootcamp [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-bootcamp]   Grunder Landscaping Field Trips [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips]   https://www.growgroupinc.com/grow-2025The Grow Group [https://www.growgroupinc.com/]    Grunder Landscaping [https://grunderlandscaping.com/]    Marty Grunder LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/martygrunder/]

Plan Now for 2027, Your Success Depends Upon It! with Marty Grunder

Upcoming Events: Join Us for a GLC Field Trip (Dayton, OH - Multiple Options in 2026!) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips] Level Up Your Sales Manager at Virtual Sales Manager Bootcamp (July 8-9, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-manager-bootcamp] Connect with Fellow ACE Members at ACE Discovery (Tucson, AZ - November 17-20, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-connect] Master Aspire Software at the GLC Aspire Workshop (Dayton, OH - August TBD & December 2-3, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-aspire-workshop-landscape-software-training] Register for GROW! 2027 Annual Conference (Savannah, GA - February 17-19, 2027) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/about-grow] Episode #169 While we can't stop executing for 2026, we also need to be doing some strategic planning for 2027 and beyond NOW. In this episode, Marty shares the 3-step process they've used when trying to launch a new service or expand to a new area. He details what the Grunder Landscaping Co. team did to ease into big changes, and what you can do if you're planning to do anything differently next year. BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com] is an AI-powered takeoff and estimating platform that automates the most time-consuming parts of bidding work. Contractors report up to 65% reduction in takeoff time and 3-5x more bids submitted per estimator. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Leave a Review for the Grow Show! [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grow-show/id1683205964] ️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️  Subscribe to Our Youtube Channel! [https://www.youtube.com/c/TheGrowGroup] Key Learnings If You Are Only Working on This Year, You Are Already Behind: The companies that keep growing are constantly asking what's next. The ones that plateau are heads-down on this season. By the time January hits, the planning window is closed. Learn First, Test Second, Invest Third: Most owners flip this order. They buy the trucks, hire the people, and lease the building, then try to figure out how to run the new service. Reverse the order and the risk drops dramatically. Step One Is Buying Information, Not Profit: Visit other companies. Bring in consultants. Attend conferences. Partner with experts. Send your people to training. The goal at this stage is to learn, not to make money. This is the cheapest part of the entire process. Step Two Is a Pilot, Not a Launch: Run it on 10 maintenance clients. Rent the equipment before you buy it. Assign one crew. Sell some work in the new market before you open the branch. GLC sold 1.5 million in Cincinnati before opening the office there. One Successful Project Proves Nothing: Twenty projects start to tell a story. Look for patterns. Can you consistently sell it? Will clients pay? Can you perform it at the quality standard you want? What operational problems keep showing up? Step Three Is Invest, but Only After Proof: Once the concept is proven and you know clients will write checks for it, commit fully. Buy the equipment, hire the team, lease the building, launch marketing. The risk has not disappeared, but assumptions have been replaced with data. Most Expansions Fail for Three Reasons: The owner moves too fast. The owner falls in love with their own idea. The business has not earned the expansion yet. GLC waited until they were doing 15 million in Dayton before opening Cincinnati. Expansion Doesn't Happen Because Equipment Shows Up, It Happens Because Leadership Shows Up: Who owns that new division? Who is accountable? Who wakes up thinking about its success? If you cannot answer that question, you are not ready. Mistakes Are Tuition, but Keep the Tuition Affordable: Marty has tried a Christmas tree stand (mulch by December 22), a power washing company, and a gift basket company. He learned this the hard way so you don't have to. The Best Reason to Grow Is the People Already Inside Your Business: Mike Rorie told Marty over clam chowder: if you have good people pushing you and you do not create opportunities for them, they will leave. Growth is a career path for someone. Reflection Questionshttps://www.theinnovationspeaker.com 1. What could be new in 2027 for your business? A service, a location, a customer segment, or a revenue stream? 2. What is one low-risk experiment you could start in the next 30 days to begin learning about that opportunity? 3. Who on your team would wake up thinking about the success of that new division? If you do not have an answer, what does that tell you? Additional Resources: The Grow Show Episode 165: The Lies That Get in the Way of Growth [https://youtu.be/TdQ_ZLD5OWk] BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com]  Aspire [https://www.youraspire.com/?utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_exact_home&utm_medium=paid-search&utm_source=google&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_content=shd_test_dynt_dem_07172025_1&cid=701PM00000xXXZLYA4&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_brand_CPC&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid-search&hsa_acc=6234924545&hsa_cam=20348537411&hsa_grp=151852382620&hsa_ad=764457471967&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-465561275476&hsa_kw=aspire%20landscaping&hsa_mt=e&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20348537411&gbraid=0AAAAACs4TKNhCCUGHmIFAgHBIX-Sq_QpX&gclid=CjwKCAiAqprNBhB6EiwAMe3yhjVg1CQXwPCwt3VFpD_EbcAau_BnKyia5WAEj2XyNaCnKQ0-nWo77xoC3JIQAvD_BwE] ACE Peer Groups [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-peer-groups] Virtual Sales Bootcamp [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-bootcamp]   Grunder Landscaping Field Trips [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips]   https://www.growgroupinc.com/grow-2025The Grow Group [https://www.growgroupinc.com/]    Grunder Landscaping [https://grunderlandscaping.com/]    Marty Grunder LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/martygrunder/]

Interview Series: Stephen Shapiro on Team Dynamics and How Teams Can Work Better Together

Upcoming Events: Join Us for a GLC Field Trip (Dayton, OH - Multiple Options in 2026!) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips] Level Up Your Sales Manager at Virtual Sales Manager Bootcamp (July 8-9, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-manager-bootcamp] Connect with Fellow ACE Members at ACE Discovery (Tucson, AZ - November 17-20, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-connect] Master Aspire Software at the GLC Aspire Workshop (Dayton, OH - August TBD & December 2-3, 2026) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-aspire-workshop-landscape-software-training] Register for GROW! 2027 Annual Conference (Savannah, GA - February 17-19, 2027) [https://www.growgroupinc.com/about-grow] Episode #168 In this episode, author Steve Shapiro talks about milestone projects in his career, how people who are different from you push you to be better, and what drives innovation in teams and companies. In his new book, You're Not Playing with a Full Deck, he details how teams often are missing key perspectives with too many alike thinkers. This episode previews that book and applies this mindset to small businesses. BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com] is an AI-powered takeoff and estimating platform that automates the most time-consuming parts of bidding work. Contractors report up to 65% reduction in takeoff time and 3-5x more bids submitted per estimator. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Leave a Review for the Grow Show! [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grow-show/id1683205964] ️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️  Subscribe to Our Youtube Channel! [https://www.youtube.com/c/TheGrowGroup] Key Learnings If You Only Hire People Who Fit the Mold, Eventually Your Organization Grows Mold: Opposites don't attract, they detract. But when we surround ourselves with people who think like us, we get stale ideas, musty ideas, and the same things we have always had. Understand Who You Are Not: Most people focus on identifying their strengths. The bigger unlock is identifying who you are not. That tells you exactly which kind of people you need to surround yourself with. The person who drives you crazy is often the person you need most. Find Your Ray: Steve had a coworker named Ray who drove him nuts, but together they did the greatest work of his career. Not in spite of their differences, because of them. Everyone needs a Ray. Appreciate them, learn from them, have empathy for them. Organizations Have Personalities Too: Company personality is not defined by the mix of people you have. It is defined by what gets valued, recognized, and rewarded. People leave companies when they do not feel valued or appreciated. Expertise Is the Enemy of Innovation: Past experience worked in the past. It does not necessarily work in the future. If the world is changing, we cannot keep relying on the same perspectives and the same expertise we have always had. Relational Conflict Is Bad, Idea Conflict Is Good: Some conflict will always happen when you work with people who are different. Conflict over ideas is productive. If everyone agrees on every idea, you will never do anything new. Match the Environment to the Person, Not Just the Task: Do not stick people in boxes. A structured person can be creative if you give them a structured approach. A relational person can be a great implementer if you give them flexibility. Communicate to the Whole Deck, Not Just Your Cult: Most leaders speak only to the dominant culture in their company. Use the four-part rhythm: problem, pain, solution, vision. That hits every personality type. Most Leadership Teams Are Too Rational: A leadership team full of logical, structured thinkers will miss the relational side. Bring people-oriented and idea-oriented voices to the table and give them an equal voice. That is how you grow. A Leader's Job Is to Ask Better Questions, Not Have Better Answers: The best question to ask: what problem or opportunity are we really solving? Hit pause before chasing solutions, or you will waste time, money, and energy solving the wrong thing. In a Digital World, Our Value Is What Makes Us Human: Anything digital is becoming a commodity. Knowledge is a commodity. AI is a tool. The differentiator is humanness, empathy, and judgment. Reflection Questions 1. Who in your business drives you crazy, and could that person actually be the one you need most? 2. What gets valued, recognized, and rewarded in your company? What does that tell you about the perspectives you are missing? 3. Is your leadership team mostly rational or mostly relational? What would change if you balanced it out? More on Stephen: * You're Not Playing with a Full Deck by Stephen Shapiro: https://www.fulldeckbook.com [https://www.fulldeckbook.com] * Personality Poker: https://www.personalitypoker.com [https://www.personalitypoker.com] * The Innovation Speaker: https://www.theinnovationspeaker.com [https://www.theinnovationspeaker.com] Additional Resources: BOBYARD [https://www.bobyard.com]  Aspire [https://www.youraspire.com/?utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_exact_home&utm_medium=paid-search&utm_source=google&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_content=shd_test_dynt_dem_07172025_1&cid=701PM00000xXXZLYA4&utm_term=aspire%20landscaping&utm_campaign=ga_br_al_brand_search_web_dem_brand_CPC&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid-search&hsa_acc=6234924545&hsa_cam=20348537411&hsa_grp=151852382620&hsa_ad=764457471967&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-465561275476&hsa_kw=aspire%20landscaping&hsa_mt=e&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20348537411&gbraid=0AAAAACs4TKNhCCUGHmIFAgHBIX-Sq_QpX&gclid=CjwKCAiAqprNBhB6EiwAMe3yhjVg1CQXwPCwt3VFpD_EbcAau_BnKyia5WAEj2XyNaCnKQ0-nWo77xoC3JIQAvD_BwE] ACE Peer Groups [https://www.growgroupinc.com/ace-peer-groups] Virtual Sales Bootcamp [https://www.growgroupinc.com/virtual-sales-bootcamp]   Grunder Landscaping Field Trips [https://www.growgroupinc.com/glc-fall-field-trips]   https://www.growgroupinc.com/grow-2025The Grow Group [https://www.growgroupinc.com/]    Grunder Landscaping [https://grunderlandscaping.com/]    Marty Grunder LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/martygrunder/]