The Leadership Cost of Being Right - Dana Therrien - Innovative Revenue Leader - Episode #35

The Metrics That Matter - Curtis Schroeder - Innovative Revenue Leader - Episode #37

How should revenue leaders evaluate sales performance? In this episode of Innovative Revenue Leader, Seth Marrs sits down with Curtis Schroeder, Head of Research and Insight at Varicent, to examine one of the most debated topics in sales leadership: measuring seller performance. Together, they explore why commonly used metrics such as quota attainment, win rates, and pipeline creation often fail to provide a complete picture of seller effectiveness. Curtis shares insights from his research on sales performance measurement, the importance of evaluating performance in context, and why revenue per rep can provide a more meaningful view of contribution. The conversation also explores AI’s growing role in coaching, performance visibility, and skill development, as well as the importance of curiosity in building a successful sales career.  Takeaways: * Quota attainment often reflects both seller performance and quota-setting accuracy, making it an imperfect measure of individual effectiveness. * Win rate can reward sellers for pursuing easier opportunities rather than creating greater customer value. * Pipeline creation is important, but it measures what sellers say they are going to do rather than what they have actually accomplished. * Revenue per rep provides a direct connection between seller contribution and business outcomes. * New sellers should be evaluated based on their trajectory and development over time, not a single point-in-time performance snapshot. * AI is making it easier to connect sales skills, coaching insights, and performance outcomes in ways that were previously difficult to measure. * Curiosity can be a powerful career strategy for understanding performance, improving skills, and helping others succeed. Quote of the Show: * “It’s about the trajectory, not a point in time.” - Curtis Schroeder Links: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/curtisschroeder/ * Website: https://varicent.com [https://varicent.com/] Ways to Tune In: * Innovative Revenue Leader Website: InnovativeRevenueLeader.ai [http://innovativerevenueleader.ai]  * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4Hn0sJKCzneggQj3j4XKo3?si=02c4c44769dc41bb [https://open.spotify.com/show/4Hn0sJKCzneggQj3j4XKo3?si=02c4c44769dc41bb]  * Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-innovative-revenue-leader/id1843401468 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-innovative-revenue-leader/id1843401468]  * Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/48477601-e33b-4c80-a4af-739863e58131 [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/48477601-e33b-4c80-a4af-739863e58131]  * Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-innovative-revenue-leader-6233089 [https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-innovative-revenue-leader-6233089]

The Revenue Graph: Playing to Win - Eilon Reshef - Innovative Revenue Leader - Episode #37

What does it actually take to build a revenue intelligence platform that gets stronger every time a new technology threatens to replace it? In this episode of Innovative Revenue Leader, Seth Marrs sits down with Eilon Reshef, Co-Founder and CPO of Gong, for a wide-ranging conversation about AI agents, staying focused on outcomes over hype, surviving the 2022 to 2023 tech downturn, and why Gong never cut its engineering team when competitors were offshoring to cut costs. Eilon also shares his thinking behind Gong Enable, a new product that turns real conversation data into AI-powered training, and why he believes effectiveness is finally becoming measurable for the first time.  Takeaways: * Focus on outcomes, not terminology. Eilon is still skeptical of AI hype, explaining that the term "agent" is useful only insofar as it helps people understand what a tool does and what value it provides. The real story is LLM-powered automation that drives measurable revenue outcomes. * The build-versus-buy trap. Most revenue organizations are not in the business of building software, and even teams that can build something quickly find it is outdated within months. Packaging, hosting, calibrating, and maintaining tools at scale is an entirely different challenge from spinning something up locally. * Gong survived the downturn by doubling down. During the 2022 to 2023 tech contraction, many competitors moved to offshore engineering to cut costs. Gong chose not to cut its engineering team, believing the product had fundamental merit. That investment in product development during the downcycle enabled the launch of two nine-figure product lines: Forecasting and Sales Engagement. * Enable closes the loop between conversation intelligence and coaching. Gong Enable uses real customer conversation data to build AI training scenarios, including realistic objections like "I'm in the car right now," that no human would think to script. It connects the same scoring logic used to evaluate calls into the training experience. * Effectiveness is finally becoming measurable. The combination of AI scorecards, trackers, and conversation data is making it possible to tie sales methodology directly to performance outcomes, turning what was always a qualitative discipline into something that can be tracked, measured, and improved. * Career advice: stop overthinking the next step. Eilon's philosophy has always been to focus on doing your best work in the role you are in right now. "Focus on the things you control versus the things you can't control." Quote of the Show: * "Do you play to win or do you play not to lose? We just don't like to play not to lose."  - Eilon Reshef Links: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eilonreshef/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/eilonreshef/] * Website: https://www.gong.io/ [https://www.gong.io/] Ways to Tune In: * Innovative Revenue Leader Website: InnovativeRevenueLeader.ai [http://innovativerevenueleader.ai]  * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4Hn0sJKCzneggQj3j4XKo3?si=02c4c44769dc41bb [https://open.spotify.com/show/4Hn0sJKCzneggQj3j4XKo3?si=02c4c44769dc41bb]  * Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-innovative-revenue-leader/id1843401468 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-innovative-revenue-leader/id1843401468]  * Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/48477601-e33b-4c80-a4af-739863e58131 [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/48477601-e33b-4c80-a4af-739863e58131]  * Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-innovative-revenue-leader-6233089 [https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-innovative-revenue-leader-6233089]

The Leadership Cost of Being Right - Dana Therrien - Innovative Revenue Leader - Episode #35

What’s the real cost of always needing to be right as a leader? In this episode of Innovative Revenue Leader, Seth Marrs sits down with Dana Therrien, Senior VP at Varicent, for a conversation that goes far beyond revenue technology and sales strategy. Dana shares lessons from his military background, years in sales performance management, and personal leadership development journey, including how self-awareness, communication style, and emotional intelligence shape executive effectiveness. The conversation also explores AI adoption in revenue operations, why many companies are retrofitting AI into their platforms, and how Varicent approaches AI differently through long-term platform integration.  Takeaways: *  Leadership effectiveness requires self-awareness. Dana discusses learning that being correct in conversations can still damage relationships and leadership trust if communication lacks empathy. * Experience shaped Dana’s leadership philosophy. The conversation explores how Dana’s military background, career experiences, and years studying Daoism influenced his approach to leadership and communication. * Revenue leaders must balance force with nuance. Dana explains the importance of understanding when to push aggressively and when a more measured approach creates better outcomes. * AI adoption should focus on solving real problems. The discussion highlights Dana’s perspective that many companies are retrofitting AI into products, while Varicent built AI capabilities into its platform years earlier. * Revenue technology must connect to business outcomes. Dana emphasizes the importance of demonstrating practical operational value rather than relying on “slideware” presentations. * Modern revenue leadership requires adaptability. The episode explores how leadership maturity evolves over time through reflection, experience, and learning from mistakes. Quote of the Show: * “What’s the cost of being right?” - Dana Therrien Links: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danatherrien/ * Website: https://varicent.com [https://varicent.com/] Ways to Tune In: * Innovative Revenue Leader Website: InnovativeRevenueLeader.ai [http://innovativerevenueleader.ai]  * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4Hn0sJKCzneggQj3j4XKo3?si=02c4c44769dc41bb [https://open.spotify.com/show/4Hn0sJKCzneggQj3j4XKo3?si=02c4c44769dc41bb]  * Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-innovative-revenue-leader/id1843401468 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-innovative-revenue-leader/id1843401468]  * Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/48477601-e33b-4c80-a4af-739863e58131 [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/48477601-e33b-4c80-a4af-739863e58131]  * Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-innovative-revenue-leader-6233089 [https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-innovative-revenue-leader-6233089]

Forecasting Is a Leadership System, Not a Reporting Exercise - Nicola Miller - Innovative Revenue Leader - Episode #34

What separates reactive forecasting from truly predictable revenue operations? In this episode of Innovative Revenue Leader, Seth Marrs sits down with Nicola Miller, Sr. Sales Programs Manager at DocuSign, to explore how modern revenue organizations are evolving from subjective forecasting practices toward signal-based, proactive forecasting systems. Nicola shares a practical framework for forecasting maturity, explaining how organizations progress from rep-opinion-driven forecasting to operationally mature systems powered by engagement signals, pipeline intelligence, AI-supported insights, and management consistency. The conversation also explores the cultural and operational challenges behind forecasting transformation, including leadership accountability, manager inspection routines, risk communication, behavioral change, and the evolving role of sellers in an AI-enabled revenue environment. Throughout the episode, Nicola provides actionable insights for revenue leaders looking to improve forecast accuracy, operational discipline, pipeline visibility, and organizational predictability.   Takeaways: * Forecasting is ultimately about predictability. Nicola explains that effective forecasting is less about spreadsheets and more about helping businesses make decisions early enough to influence outcomes. * Signal-based forecasting is replacing subjective forecasting. The discussion explores how organizations are moving beyond rep opinion and incorporating CRM data, engagement signals, conversation intelligence, buying activity, and pipeline movement into forecasting models. * Forecasting maturity evolves through operational discipline. Nicola breaks forecasting maturity into four stages, progressing from anecdotal forecasting to proactive, AI-supported forecasting systems. * Management consistency matters more than technology. A major theme throughout the episode is that forecasting success depends more on management processes, inspection routines, and operational rigor than tooling alone. * Forecasting transparency can create organizational tension  Nicola discusses how better forecasting exposes business reality and can create discomfort around accountability, visibility, and risk communication. * AI will shift sellers toward higher-value work. The conversation explores how automation and AI may reduce administrative forecasting tasks while allowing sellers to focus more on judgment, relationships, negotiation, and executive alignment. * Great operators embrace ambiguity and growth. Nicola shares career advice around saying yes to stretch opportunities, staying curious, and growing through discomfort Quote of the Show: * “Don’t confuse confidence with competence” - Nicola Miller  Links: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolamiller013/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolamiller013/] * Website: https://www.docusign.com/ [https://www.docusign.com/] Ways to Tune In: * Innovative Revenue Leader Website: InnovativeRevenueLeader.ai [http://innovativerevenueleader.ai]  * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4Hn0sJKCzneggQj3j4XKo3?si=02c4c44769dc41bb [https://open.spotify.com/show/4Hn0sJKCzneggQj3j4XKo3?si=02c4c44769dc41bb]  * Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-innovative-revenue-leader/id1843401468 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-innovative-revenue-leader/id1843401468]  * Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/48477601-e33b-4c80-a4af-739863e58131 [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/48477601-e33b-4c80-a4af-739863e58131]  * Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-innovative-revenue-leader-6233089 [https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-innovative-revenue-leader-6233089]

Reinventing Revenue Forecasting - Jamie Sacks - Innovative Revenue Leader - Episode #33

How can revenue leaders simplify forecasting while using AI and sales signals to drive better decisions? Today’s guest is a sales strategy and forecasting leader focused on transforming how revenue organizations operate. Introducing Jamie Sacks, Head of Sales Strategy and Operations at LiveRamp. Jamie joins host Seth Marrs to share how LiveRamp reimagined its forecasting process, improved forecast accuracy, and leveraged AI-driven insights to create a stronger bias for action across the business. He also dives into dashboard fatigue, sales signal synthesis, simplifying forecasting processes, and why revenue operations teams should focus on making sellers’ jobs easier instead of adding friction. Takeaways: • Forecasting should drive action, not just report outcomes. Jamie explains that forecasting becomes far more valuable when it helps leaders identify risks, intervene in deals, and take action instead of simply documenting what already happened. • Simplifying forecasting improved forecast accuracy dramatically. After rebuilding their forecasting process and focusing on clearer definitions and better signals, LiveRamp improved forecast accuracy from over 15% variance to around 5%. • AI is changing how sales teams interact with data. Jamie discusses how AI-driven systems can synthesize signals across tools like Gong, Salesforce, and Outreach to help sellers and leaders quickly identify what matters most. • Revenue operations should reduce friction for sellers. He emphasizes that RevOps teams should focus on helping sellers spend more time selling and less time navigating dashboards or administrative processes. • Dashboard fatigue is a real problem in sales organizations. Jamie shares that many dashboards become static, underused, and disconnected from how sales teams actually want to interact with data. • Successful change management requires clear philosophy alignment. When LiveRamp transitioned forecasting systems, Jamie focused heavily on aligning the process with the organization’s broader philosophy around better insights and better data usage. • AI is empowering non-technical operators. Jamie highlights that modern AI tools are making advanced analytics more accessible to people without deep technical or coding backgrounds. Quote of the Show: * “Forecasting is about being accountable to what you forecast.” - Jamie Sacks Links: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-sacks-2b20802a/?skipRedirect=true * Website: https://liveramp.com/ [https://liveramp.com/] Ways to Tune In: * Innovative Revenue Leader Website: InnovativeRevenueLeader.ai [http://innovativerevenueleader.ai]  * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4Hn0sJKCzneggQj3j4XKo3?si=02c4c44769dc41bb [https://open.spotify.com/show/4Hn0sJKCzneggQj3j4XKo3?si=02c4c44769dc41bb]  * Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-innovative-revenue-leader/id1843401468 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-innovative-revenue-leader/id1843401468]  * Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/48477601-e33b-4c80-a4af-739863e58131 [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/48477601-e33b-4c80-a4af-739863e58131]  * Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-innovative-revenue-leader-6233089 [https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-innovative-revenue-leader-6233089]