The Pluralist Podcast - with Orly Erez-Likhovski and Rabbi Josh Weinberg
What does Tisha B’Av ask of Jews who have returned to Jerusalem and now possess the power of a sovereign state? In this episode of The Pluralist Podcast, Rabbi Josh Weinberg and Orly Erez-Likhovski speak with Rabbi Professor Michael Marmur, theologian, educator, activist, former provost of Hebrew Union College–Jewish Institute of Religion, and former chair of Rabbis for Human Rights. Together, they explore what Jewish mourning means in an age of sovereignty. If Jerusalem has been rebuilt and Israel represents a renewed Jewish national home, what remains broken—and what would a truly rebuilt Jerusalem look like? The conversation examines sinat chinam, religious and nationalist zealotry, and the dangers of calls for unity that obscure racism, violence, and attacks on democracy. It also confronts one of the most difficult questions facing Jews today: how to grieve Jewish trauma and suffering without becoming blind to the devastation of Palestinian lives, homes, and communities in Gaza and the West Bank. Drawing on the Book of Lamentations, Rabbi Marmur reflects on the line, “Is there any pain like my pain?” and challenges us to recognize that there is pain like our pain. Jewish grief and Palestinian grief are not in competition, and acknowledging one does not diminish the other. The episode concludes with a demanding alternative to easy hope: even when hope feels distant, we still possess responsibility and agency. Subscribe to The Pluralist Podcast for conversations from both sides of the ocean about Israel, democracy, Jewish life, religious freedom, and pluralism. If this conversation matters to you, please consider supporting IRAC’s work to defend democracy, equality, religious freedom, and pluralism in Israel.
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