Trouble in Tunisia

The end of the World(ly)

In the very! last! episode! of the Worldly podcast, Zack interviews renowned economic historian Adam Tooze about his forthcoming book, Shutdown — an early history of the year 2020, one that felt to many like the end of the world as they knew it. Zack and Adam discuss what the fateful year taught us about the global economic system, the rise of China, and the stability of the US-led world order. And don’t miss goodbye messages from Jenn and Zack (at the start and end of the show). We love you, listeners! References: Preorder our guest Adam Tooze’s new book, Shutdown [https://www.amazon.com/Shutdown-Covid-Shook-Worlds-Economy/dp/0593297555], the subject of the conversation. Hosts: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp [https://twitter.com/zackbeauchamp?s=20]), senior correspondent, Vox Jennifer Williams (@jenn_ruth [https://twitter.com/jenn_ruth]), senior foreign editor, Vox Jen Kirby (@j_kirby1 [https://twitter.com/j_kirby1]), foreign and national security reporter, Vox Consider contributing to Vox: If you value Worldly’s work, please consider making a contribution to Vox: bit.ly/givepodcasts [http://bit.ly/givepodcasts] More to explore: Subscribe for free to Today, Explained [http://bit.ly/todayexplained], Vox’s daily podcast to help you understand the news, hosted by Sean Rameswaram. About Vox: Vox is a news network that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines. Follow us: Vox.com [https://www.vox.com/future-perfect] Newsletter: Vox Sentences [https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/B1596399BA377946] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Authoritarians without borders

Zack, Jenn, and Jen Kirby look at how authoritarianism has become internationalized, through the lens of two recent news stories: 1) Fox News host Tucker Carlson choosing to broadcast his show from Hungary this week; and 2) a Belarusian Olympian in Tokyo seeking asylum out of fear of punishment by the Lukashenko regime after she criticized her coach on social media. They discuss what happened in both of those cases, as well as what the events tell us about the ways authoritarian governments are expanding their international reach, by developing ties with like-minded influential figures in other countries and by threatening — and, in some cases, kidnapping or even assassinating — dissidents abroad. References: Zack on why Tucker Carlson’s trip to Hungary matters [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2021/8/5/22607465/tucker-carlson-hungary-orban-authoritarianism-democracy-backsliding]. Why US conservatives admire [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/04/american-conservatives-orban-hungary/] Prime Minister Viktor Orbán. How Hungary’s democracy died [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/13/17823488/hungary-democracy-authoritarianism-trump]. The Belarusian Olympian who would not go home [https://www.rferl.org/a/belarus-olympics-tsimanouskaya-poland/31392530.html]. Here’s the transcript [https://meduza.io/en/feature/2021/08/02/that-s-how-suicide-cases-end-up]of Belarusian officials pressuring Olympic sprinter Krystsina Tsimanouskaya. Freedom House’s report on the rise of “transnational repression [https://freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/2021-02/Complete_FH_TransnationalRepressionReport2021_rev020221.pdf].” Hosts: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp [https://twitter.com/zackbeauchamp?s=20]), senior correspondent, Vox Jennifer Williams (@jenn_ruth [https://twitter.com/jenn_ruth]), senior foreign editor, Vox Jen Kirby (@j_kirby1 [https://twitter.com/j_kirby1]), foreign and national security reporter, Vox Consider contributing to Vox: If you value Worldly’s work, please consider making a contribution to Vox: bit.ly/givepodcasts [http://bit.ly/givepodcasts] More to explore: Subscribe for free to Today, Explained [http://bit.ly/todayexplained], Vox’s daily podcast to help you understand the news, hosted by Sean Rameswaram. About Vox: Vox is a news network that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines. Follow us: Vox.com [https://www.vox.com/future-perfect] Newsletter: Vox Sentences [https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/B1596399BA377946] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Trouble in Tunisia

Zack, Jenn, and Jen Kirby discuss the political crisis gripping Tunisia following the president’s decision to fire the prime minister and suspend parliament. Tunisia was the big “success story” of the Arab Spring: the one country whose revolution produced a real, albeit rocky, transition to democracy — a democracy that is now in crisis. The gang explains what’s going on, what it all means for Tunisia’s future, and how — or whether — the international community should respond. References: Tunisia’s president fired [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/28/what-is-going-on-in-tunisia-all-you-need-to-know] its prime minister and suspended parliament Is what happened [https://www.vox.com/22594759/tunisia-coup-president-arab-spring] in Tunisia a coup? A helpful timeline outlining Tunisia’s democratic transition [https://www.usip.org/tunisia-timeline-jasmine-revolution] Tunisia’s imperfect democracy was still a model, wrote Sarah E. Yerkes [https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/tunisia/2019-10-15/tunisia-model?utm_source=twitter_posts&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tw_daily_soc] in 2019 Foreign Policy on the problem [https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/07/27/saied-coup-tunisia-might-not-want-democracy/?tpcc=recirc_trending062921&utm_source=PostUp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=35051&utm_term=Editors%20Picks%20OC&tpcc=35051tpcc=35051] with calling Tunisia the Arab Spring’s “lone success story” Bloomberg’s Hussein Ibish [https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-07-28/why-tunisia-s-democratic-experiment-must-succeed?sref=tp95wk9l] on why this crisis is testing Tunisia’s political divisions The US secretary of state’s Tunisia tweets [https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1419898335679455233?s=20] Hosts: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp [https://twitter.com/zackbeauchamp?s=20]), senior correspondent, Vox Jennifer Williams (@jenn_ruth [https://twitter.com/jenn_ruth]), senior foreign editor, Vox Jen Kirby (@j_kirby1 [https://twitter.com/j_kirby1]), foreign and national security reporter, Vox Consider contributing to Vox: If you value Worldly’s work, please consider making a contribution to Vox: bit.ly/givepodcasts [http://bit.ly/givepodcasts] More to explore: Subscribe for free to Today, Explained [http://bit.ly/todayexplained], Vox’s daily podcast to help you understand the news, hosted by Sean Rameswaram. About Vox: Vox is a news network that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines. Follow us: Vox.com [https://www.vox.com/future-perfect] Newsletter: Vox Sentences [https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/B1596399BA377946] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

iSpy

Zack Beauchamp, Jenn Williams, and Jen Kirby discuss the explosive revelations that a number of governments around the world, from Saudi Arabia to Hungary to India, have been using military-grade spyware made by an Israeli firm to secretly hack into the phones of journalists, activists, and political opponents. They explore what we know about the NSO Group, the Israeli company who sold this software; what the technology does; how governments may have used it to spy on critics; and what all of this tells us about the rise of digital authoritarianism. References: The Pegasus Project uncovers [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/revealed-leak-uncovers-global-abuse-of-cyber-surveillance-weapon-nso-group-pegasus] the potential abuse of NSO Group spyware The major takeaways from the investigation, according to the Washington Post [https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/07/18/takeaways-nso-pegasus-project/] And the revelations keep on coming [https://www.theguardian.com/news/series/pegasus-project] Hungarian journalists had spyware on their phones [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/07/18/hungary-orban-spyware/] And so did a top rival [https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jul/19/key-modi-rival-rahul-gandhi-among-indian-targets-of-nso-client] of India’s prime minister The Pegasus investigation puts Israel in an uncomfortable position [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.HIGHLIGHT-spyware-revelations-place-israel-on-the-bad-guys-side-1.10013939] US and EU officials suspect links [https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2021/07/20/nso-israel-intelligence/] between NSO Group and Israeli intelligence Israel’s defense ministry says “appropriate action” [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.HIGHLIGHT-spyware-revelations-place-israel-on-the-bad-guys-side-1.10013939] will be taken if NSO violated export permits Steven Feldstein’s book [https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/oso/9780190057497.001.0001/oso-9780190057497], The Rise of Digital Repression (and listen to Zack’s interview! [https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/digital-dictatorship/id1081584611?i=1000524937949]) Israel considered [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israeli-defense-chief-plans-to-employ-spyware-firm-nso-in-fight-against-coronavirus-1.8722464] using NSO Group to help track the coronavirus Hosts: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp [https://twitter.com/zackbeauchamp?s=20]), senior correspondent, Vox Jennifer Williams (@jenn_ruth [https://twitter.com/jenn_ruth]), senior foreign editor, Vox Jen Kirby (@j_kirby1 [https://twitter.com/j_kirby1]), foreign and national security reporter, Vox Consider contributing to Vox: If you value Worldly’s work, please consider making a contribution to Vox: bit.ly/givepodcasts [http://bit.ly/givepodcasts] More to explore: Subscribe for free to Today, Explained [http://bit.ly/todayexplained], Vox’s daily podcast to help you understand the news, hosted by Sean Rameswaram. About Vox: Vox is a news network that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines. Follow us: Vox.com [https://www.vox.com/future-perfect] Newsletter: Vox Sentences [https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/B1596399BA377946] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Cuba Libre

Worldly guest co-host Jen Kirby talks to Michael Bustamante, professor of Latin American history at Florida International University and the author of Cuban Memory Wars: Retrospective Politics in Revolution and Exile (2021), about Cuba’s recent protests, the largest in decades. They discuss the origins of the current crisis and what it means for thousands of Cubans to take to the streets to resist the country’s regime. They also talk about the US-Cuba relationship and how the US should — and shouldn’t — respond. References: Here’s why Cubans are protesting [https://www.wsj.com/articles/cuba-protests-whats-happening-11626112390]. This is a brief explainer [https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/1/1/what-will-cubas-new-single-currency-mean-for-the-island] on Cuba’s currency devaluation. Vox wrote about the Biden administration’s Cuba dilemma [https://www.vox.com/22573703/biden-cuba-protests-trump]. You can find Bustamante’s latest book on Cubans’ memories of the revolution here [https://uncpress.org/book/9781469662039/cuban-memory-wars/]. Learn about the artists behind [https://www.wsj.com/articles/cuba-protests-dissidents-san-isidro-patria-y-vida-11626198332] the song “Patria y Vida.” (And listen to the song here! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP9Bto5lOEQ]) Hosts: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp [https://twitter.com/zackbeauchamp?s=20]), senior correspondent, Vox Jennifer Williams (@jenn_ruth [https://twitter.com/jenn_ruth]), senior foreign editor, Vox Jen Kirby (@j_kirby1 [https://twitter.com/j_kirby1]), foreign and national security reporter, Vox Consider contributing to Vox: If you value Worldly’s work, please consider making a contribution to Vox: bit.ly/givepodcasts [http://bit.ly/givepodcasts] More to explore: Subscribe for free to Today, Explained [http://bit.ly/todayexplained], Vox’s daily podcast to help you understand the news, hosted by Sean Rameswaram. About Vox: Vox is a news network that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines. Follow us: Vox.com [https://www.vox.com/future-perfect] Newsletter: Vox Sentences [https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/B1596399BA377946] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]