BE THAT LAWYER

Jennifer Gillman: How to Become a Happy Rainmaker Early

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jennifer Gillman discuss: * Building rainmaking as a sustainable, early-career practice * Shifting mindset to overcome fear and unlock visibility * Using small, consistent actions to compound business development * Gaining autonomy by moving from service partner to rainmaker   Key Takeaways: * Becoming a happy rainmaker is not a late-career scramble but a long game that should begin as early as law school or the first years of practice. By consistently maintaining relationships with classmates and peers, lawyers build familiarity and trust over time. This approach replaces transactional job-seeking with organic, referral-based growth. * A core barrier to business development is the fear of judgment, captured by the reminder that what other people think of you is none of your business. This mindset shift frees lawyers to show up on LinkedIn, speak publicly, and introduce themselves without self-consciousness. Confidence grows through action rather than perfection. * Rainmaking does not require massive time blocks but thrives on small, intentional habits repeated consistently. Even 15 to 20 minutes a week spent nurturing relationships or learning LinkedIn and AI tools can create long-term leverage. Like compound interest, steady effort builds momentum and results. * Rainmakers gain control over clients, schedules, and priorities, while service partners remain dependent on others for work and timing. Building a book of business early reframes BD as an investment in future autonomy rather than an added burden. This shift creates greater flexibility and career control.   "If you can develop one dollar of business, you can develop a million dollars or ten million." —  Jennifer Gillman   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/] Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ [https://www.lawyer.com/]   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/]   About Jennifer Gillman: Jennifer Gillman is President and Founder of Gillman Strategic Group, a legal recruiting firm that helps law firm partners find the right fit so they can thrive and enjoy practicing law. A former lawyer herself, Jennifer spent 12 years in practice before becoming a recruiter, and she is known for her candidate-focused, confidential, and thoughtful approach to career matchmaking. She earned her J.D. from New York University School of Law and her undergraduate degree from Brandeis University.   Connect with Jennifer Gillman:   Website: https://gillmanstrategicgroup.com/ [https://gillmanstrategicgroup.com/] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-gillman-law-firm-matchmaker/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-gillman-law-firm-matchmaker/]   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://web.facebook.com/fretzinsteve] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Noel Bagwell: Designing Profitable Law Firms That Last

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Noel Bagwell discuss: * Prioritize profit over revenue * Cultivating virtue and adaptability in leadership * Rethinking traditional metrics * Building resilience through self-awareness   Key Takeaways: * Sustainable law firms focus on true profitability, not just top-line revenue, ensuring resources for reinvestment and owner compensation. * Effective leaders build moral character, listen deeply, transform failure into feedback, and create psychologically safe environments while holding teams accountable. * Billable hours are outdated; value-based, flat-fee, or subscription models paired with results-oriented KPIs align incentives with client outcomes and firm sustainability. * Perseverance, reflection, and deliberate self-leadership are essential for navigating personal and professional challenges and for leading others effectively.   "Profit is what happens when you get everything else right." —  Noel Bagwell   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/] Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ [https://www.lawyer.com/]   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/]   About Noel Bagwell: Noel Bagwell is the founder of Counsel & Clarity™, where he helps leaders and organizations build resilient leadership, profitable legal relationships, and effective legal operations. His work focuses on supporting startups, growth-stage companies, and executives navigating complexity, change, and high-stakes decision-making. Through Leadership Resilience Coaching, Noel works with leaders recovering from personal or professional setbacks, helping them rebuild capacity, strengthen self-leadership, and lead with clarity under pressure. His coaching emphasizes resilience, reflection, and sustainable performance rather than short-term fixes. Noel also provides Legal Coaching and Services, guiding clients through complex legal challenges with a practical, business-aligned approach. He helps organizations better understand the legal landscape, make informed decisions, and create legal strategies that support long-term goals rather than reactive problem-solving. In his Legal Operations Coaching, Noel partners with legal teams to optimize processes, streamline workflows, and improve how legal functions deliver value. By aligning operations with business priorities, he enables legal departments to become more efficient, effective, and strategically integrated.   Connect with Noel Bagwell:   Website: https://counselandclarity.com/home-page [https://counselandclarity.com/home-page] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nbagwell3/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nbagwell3/]   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://web.facebook.com/fretzinsteve] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Robert Armstrong & Sandy Fisch: Why Most Law Firms Never Scale

In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Robert Armstrong, and Sandy Fisch discuss: * Legal expertise without systems limits growth * Focus outperforms expansion without infrastructure * Value-based models outperform time-based billing in an AI-driven future * Future-proof firms are systemized, collaborative, and diversified   Key Takeaways: * Most firms are built by technicians who understand legal work but not business operations. Sustainable firms require deliberate work on systems, strategy, and management. * Deep specialization strengthens results, clarity, and scale. Expanding practice areas too early dilutes effectiveness and increases operational drag. * Hourly billing weakens as automation accelerates legal work. Flat-fee pricing combined with strong human relationships aligns better with efficiency and client outcomes. * Recurring revenue, acquisition-ready structures, and trusted peer communities reduce dependence on individuals. Long-term resilience comes from systems, relationships, and adaptive business models.   "There's a difference between working on the business and working in the business." —  Sandy Fisch   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/]   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/]   About Robert Armstrong: Robert Armstrong is President of the American Academy of Estate Planning Attorneys and co-founder of Armstrong, Fisch & Tutoli, a leading San Diego estate planning firm. A U.S. Navy veteran and summa cum laude graduate of UC San Diego, he earned his Juris Doctor from the University of San Diego in 1976. A recognized thought leader in estate planning, Robert has authored several books, including The E-Myth Attorney, and has been quoted in national publications such as the Wall Street Journal. He frequently appears on television as an estate planning expert. Robert lives in Knoxville, Tennessee, with his wife, Jennifer, and enjoys reading, daily workouts, and time outdoors with his family.   About Sandy Fisch: Sanford Fisch is a principal at Armstrong, Fisch & Tutoli, a leading San Diego estate planning firm recognized nationwide for excellence. He co-founded the American Academy of Estate Planning Attorneys to help attorneys and law firms improve their skills and practices. Known for expertise and enthusiasm, Sanford seeks more effective ways to serve clients, support fellow attorneys, and advance the practice of estate planning law across the United States.   Connect with Robert Armstrong & Sandy Fisch:   Website: https://www.aftattorneys.com/ [https://www.aftattorneys.com/]   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://web.facebook.com/fretzinsteve] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Deirdre Nero: The Ceiling Every Solo Lawyer Hits

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Deirdre Nero discuss: * Action can precede clarity * Growth requires delegation, not endurance * Authenticity strengthens leadership and trust * Expertise must be valued to be sustainable   Key Takeaways: * Starting a firm without certainty can still create momentum and direction. Waiting for perfect readiness delays growth more than risk does. * Handling every task personally creates a hard ceiling on scale and sustainability. Hiring support is the necessary step to move beyond survival mode. * Hiding core aspects of identity fractures credibility and connection. Openness creates deeper trust, healing, and stronger professional relationships. * Giving away high-level knowledge undermines both business viability and professional worth. Confident pricing is essential for long-term independence and freedom.   "I think honestly that was probably the biggest crime I committed in my firm… trying to do it all myself." —  Deirdre Nero   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/]   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/]   About Deirdre Nero: Deirdre D. Nero is the founder of NERO Immigration Law, which she established in 2009 after practicing for several years at large domestic and international law firms. She previously led the immigration practice of a major international firm’s Coral Gables office and has deep experience advising individuals and small to mid-sized companies. Her practice focuses on business and family immigration, including employment-based immigrant and nonimmigrant visas, PERM labor certifications, and naturalization. Deirdre represents clients nationwide and around the world, working closely with them to execute immigration strategies before U.S. immigration agencies. Fluent in Spanish and certified at the highest level by the Spanish government, Deirdre is a passionate advocate for immigration reform. She frequently lectures and writes on immigration topics and has lived, studied, and worked in Spain, where she completed legal internships and comparative law research.   Connect with Deirdre Nero:   Website: https://neroimmigration.com/ [https://neroimmigration.com/] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deirdrenero/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/deirdrenero/] Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/neroimmigration [https://www.facebook.com/neroimmigration]   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://www.facebook.com/fretzinsteve] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Noel Andrews: Why Delegation Is the Key to Growing a Firm

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Noel Andrews discuss: * Prioritizing others to drive long-term success * Delegation as a lever for higher-value work * Hiring and managing support effectively * Shifting from doing to thinking as a leader   Key Takeaways: * Sustainable business growth comes from helping team members, clients, and referral partners achieve their goals first. Celebrate client milestones, develop your team, and make introductions without expecting immediate returns. Focusing outward builds trust, loyalty, and lasting relationships that compound over time. * Lawyers often get stuck handling admin, marketing, and operations alongside legal tasks. Listing tasks to delegate frees you to focus on work only you can do and grow the firm strategically. Delegation transforms busywork into leverage and career impact. * Start with clarity: define tasks first, then map them to a role, location, and level of support. Remote talent in regions like Eastern Europe or South Africa can provide high-quality work at a lower cost. Clear KPIs, meaningful projects, and trust are more effective than micromanaging hours. * Resist the urge to control every detail; hire capable assistants to own outcomes. Delegating at a high level frees time for strategic thinking and future planning. Leaders must balance action with observation to maximize impact and firm growth.   "Every single time I’ve ever done the next stage for me, or the next step in really investing in supporting my team, particularly in their personal lives, the results are just huge." —  Noel Andrews "Profit is what happens when you get everything else right." — Yvon Chouinard, Founder of Patagonia   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org [https://www.pimcon.org/]/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ [https://rankings.io/]   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ [https://fretzin.com/]   About Noel Andrews: Noel Andrews is the CEO of JobRack, a global recruitment company that helps entrepreneurs and business owners hire high-quality remote talent, primarily from Eastern Europe and South Africa. With a background in online business and operations, Noel specializes in building systems that allow founders to delegate effectively, scale sustainably, and reclaim time for higher-level thinking. Through JobRack, he has helped hundreds of companies move beyond founder overload by hiring experienced, proactive team members who can truly own outcomes. Noel is known for his practical, clarity-first approach to hiring, leadership, and remote team management, emphasizing trust, accountability, and long-term leverage over micromanagement.   Connect with Noel Andrews:   Website: https://jobrack.eu/ [https://jobrack.eu/] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noelandrews/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/noelandrews/] Ashley Robinson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyrobinsongcm/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyrobinsongcm/]   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/] Twitter: @stevefretzin [https://twitter.com/stevefretzin] Instagram: @fretzinsteve [https://www.instagram.com/fretzinsteve/] Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. [https://www.facebook.com/fretzinsteve] Website: Fretzin.com [https://fretzin.com/] Email: Steve@Fretzin.com [Steve@Fretzin.com] Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science [https://www.fretzin.com/about/books/] and more! [https://fretzin.com/about/books/] YouTube: Steve Fretzin [https://www.youtube.com/user/SalesResultsInc] Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. [https://www.turnkeypodcast.com/] You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.