Lytt til Haystacks & Hell

Support the Show [https://hell.bio/donate] • This re-upload of Abby and Ami's original show SDAP dives into the complex and often contradictory relationship between music and the Seventh-day Adventist faith. Abby, Ami, Alex, and friends talk about their experiences with church music, worldly music, hypocrisy, destroying CDs, and just plain weirdness. 00:00 Story Previews  00:27 Haystacks and Hell Intro  00:44 Episode Intro  01:33 Abby, Ami, and Alex on Music  07:17 Adventist Attitudes on Music  15:15 "Christian Rock"  19:56 Church vs. Academy  28:06 Destroying CDs  30:16 Music Taste and Hypocrisy  46:43 Dorms and Music Contraband  53:19 Guest Stories  58:50 Outro Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes  [https://hell.bio/notes] —  Have a story to share? Write to us [https://hell.bio/share-story], send a DM or voice message on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/haystacksnhell/], or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy  [https://hell.bio/privacy] —  Twitter [https://twitter.com/haystacksnhell] • TikTok [https://www.tiktok.com/@haystacksnhell] • Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/haystacksnhell/] • YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@haystacksnhell] • Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/haystacksnhell] • r/exAdventist  [https://www.reddit.com/r/exAdventist/] —  Credits: Abby and Ami, creators of the Seventh-day Atheist Podcast (https://hell.bio/sdap [https://hell.bio/sdap]) • Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (https://incompetech.com/ [https://incompetech.com/]) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Support the Show [https://hell.bio/donate] • Did you ever get scolded for the music you played in church? We're diving into traditional Seventh-day Adventist attitudes toward music and talking about my own personal experience with music while growing up in the church. We'll also cover historical Protestant views on organs, early Adventist resistance to musical instruments, and the silly debate around Christian Contemporary Music. -Santiago Sources: SDAs didn't use instruments for first 3 decades [https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_A_to_Z_of_the_Seventh_Day_Adventists/a2nauTiPRjUC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA205&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22first%20three%20decades%22] First documented use of an organ in 1877 [https://scholarsrepository.llu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1026&context=advent-heritage#page=9] E.J. Waggoner "Solo singing has no rightful place..." [https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2925&context=dissertations#page=384] Ira Sankey hymns called the "devil's tunes" [https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2925&context=dissertations#page=386] Alma Blackmon quote re: White elitist professors [https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2925&context=dissertations#page=452] Who is Heinrich Schenker and why should you care? [https://www.ethanhein.com/wp/2021/who-is-heinrich-schenker-and-why-should-you-care/] Music Theory and the White Racial Frame [https://mtosmt.org/issues/mto.20.26.2/mto.20.26.2.ewell.html] Music Theory and White Supremacy [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr3quGh7pJA] Jacob Aranza Interview [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H2gqtXT7Q4] Rock Is Dead, Thank God [https://www.vice.com/en/article/rock-is-dead-thank-god/] IFPI 2023 Global Music Report [https://www.ifpi.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Global_Music_Report_2023_State_of_the_Industry.pdf] Spotify Top Trends of 2023 [https://newsroom.spotify.com/2023-11-29/top-songs-artists-podcasts-albums-trends-2023/] Who killed the CCM industry? [https://theweek.com/articles/555603/who-killed-contemporary-christian-music-industry] SDA propaganda given to me: 10 SHOCKING "FACTS" (BS) About CCM [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmF1QBl_lno] Inside Rock Music by Vance Ferrell [https://www.present-truth.pathlightsjr.com/06-Library/RockMusic.pdf] Ted Wilson Facebook Post [https://www.facebook.com/PastorTedWilson/posts/happy-sabbath-friends-it-was-so-heart-warming-to-see-your-thousands-of-tributes-/1562777840444769/] Seventh-day Adventist Philosophy of Music [https://web.archive.org/web/20170611211257/https://www.adventist.org/en/information/official-statements/guidelines/article/go/-/a-seventh-day-adventist-philosophy-of-music/] Recommended reading: The Devil’s Music - How Christians Inspired, Condemned, and Embraced Rock ’n’ Roll [https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674980846] 00:00 Intro 00:16 My Background with Music 06:28 Local Cultures Define Worship Styles 07:47 Protestants Hated the Organ? 10:21 Early Adventists Didn't Use Instruments 15:18 Racist Attitudes 17:58 Music Theory in the US 19:31 Rock and CCM 21:17 Anti-CCM SDA YouTuber 24:50 Inside Rock Music 28:02 Jacob Aranza, Satanic Panic Provocateur 34:18 Recap and Outro Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes  [https://hell.bio/notes] —  Have a story to share? Write to us [https://hell.bio/share-story], send a DM or voice message on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/haystacksnhell/], or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy  [https://hell.bio/privacy] —  Twitter [https://twitter.com/haystacksnhell] • TikTok [https://www.tiktok.com/@haystacksnhell] • Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/haystacksnhell/] • YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@haystacksnhell] • Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/haystacksnhell] • r/exAdventist  [https://www.reddit.com/r/exAdventist/] — Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/]

Support the Show [https://hell.bio/donate] • Santiago discusses the current political climate, especially the continued rise of Christian Nationalism in the United States, while reflecting on his personal journey from right-wing authoritarian beliefs to greater empathy and understanding. Listeners are encouraged to stay informed, participate in local elections, maintain hope for justice and positive change.   Resources / Topics Mentioned: Reddit Post - "My dad woke my fears [https://www.reddit.com/r/exAdventist/comments/1ioj6zh/my_dad_woke_my_fears/]"  Blog Post - Trump in office Ten Days: the Seventh-day Adventist Church wrote "Keep your mouth shut"  [https://talesfromacult.substack.com/p/trump-in-office-ten-days-the-seventh] Book - Armageddon by Bart Ehrman  [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61271799-armageddon] Video - Data Over Dogma Interview with Bart Ehrman  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WidY7lIBiyY] Video - Skeptic.com Interview with Bart Ehrman  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mveZVfw7Iks] Podcast - Sunday School Dropouts  [https://sundayschooldropoutspod.com/] PDF - Ben Carson's Project 2025 Contribution  [https://civilrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Project-2025-Fair-Housing-Lending.pdf] Video - Don't Believe Him - Ezra Klein [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8QLgLfqh6s] Independent Media Suggestions: DemocracyNow.org [https://www.democracynow.org/] / YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/user/democracynow]  [https://www.youtube.com/@ColonialOutcasts] Colonial Outcasts Podcast [https://www.youtube.com/@ColonialOutcasts]  [https://www.dropsitenews.com/] Drop Site News [https://www.dropsitenews.com/]  [https://www.youtube.com/c/breakingpoints] Breaking Points  [https://www.youtube.com/c/breakingpoints] Legal Eagle - WTF is DOGE? [https://www.youtube.com/c/breakingpoints]  Last Week Tonight [https://www.youtube.com/user/LastWeekTonight]  [https://www.youtube.com/@TheAdamConover] Adam Conover [https://www.youtube.com/@TheAdamConover]  [https://www.youtube.com/moreperfectunion] More Perfect Union [https://www.youtube.com/moreperfectunion] 00:00 Intro and Season 3 Kickoff 01:07 Political Climate and Deconstruction 03:48 Personal Journey and Reflections 06:11 Anxiety and End Times 11:14 Christian Nationalism 26:38 Encouragement and Resources   Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes [https://hell.bio/notes] —  Have a story to share? Write to us [https://hell.bio/share-story], send a DM or voice message on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/haystacksnhell/], or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy  [https://hell.bio/privacy] —  Twitter [https://twitter.com/haystacksnhell] • TikTok [https://www.tiktok.com/@haystacksnhell] • Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/haystacksnhell/] • YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@haystacksnhell] • Facebook  [https://www.facebook.com/haystacksnhell] —  Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/]

Support the Show [https://hell.bio/donate] • Part 2 of Santiago's interview with Dee. We discussed his questioning of Adventism and Christianity in general, Satanic Panic, his evolving perspectives on religion, and having empathy for believers. We also talked about Dee's move to Sweden, his childhood connection to Dr. Ben Carson, and how the Ben Carson on TV is not the same man Dee once knew. Resources / Topics Mentioned:  Song - I'm Afraid I'll Go to Heaven by Moon Walker  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epp3PTxzv9g] Book - Inside Rock Music (SDA anti-rock propaganda)  [https://archive.org/details/sda-vance-ferrell-inside-rock-music] Artist - Erykah Badu  [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erykah_Badu] Video - Erykah Badu NPR Tiny Desk Concert  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cfmEgpOOZk] Article - Dr. Ben Carson  [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Carson] Video - Carson 1997 National Prayer Breakfast Speech @ 34:53  [https://www.c-span.org/video/?78669-1/national-prayer-breakfast] Video - Carson 2013 National Prayer Breakfast Speech @ 34:10 [https://www.c-span.org/video/?310873-1/national-prayer-breakfast] 00:00 Intro  01:05 Part 2 of Dee's Story  02:34 The Historical Jesus  04:42 Personal Tragedy and Realizations  07:34 Why Do People Leave?  13:47 Empathy for Believers  21:41 Segregated Conferences  26:17 Sweden, Racism, and CRT  32:58 Music and Satanic Panic  44:00 Dr. Ben Carson  49:39 Moving to Sweden  54:02 Ethics and Adventism  1:05:37 Closing Thoughts   Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes  [https://hell.bio/notes] —  Have a story to share? Write to us [https://hell.bio/share-story], send a DM or voice message on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/haystacksnhell/], or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy  [https://hell.bio/privacy] —  Twitter [https://twitter.com/haystacksnhell] • TikTok [https://www.tiktok.com/@haystacksnhell] • Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/haystacksnhell/] • YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@haystacksnhell] • Facebook  [https://www.facebook.com/haystacksnhell] —  Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/]

Support the Show [https://hell.bio/donate] • Part 1 of Santiago's interview with Dee, a fourth-generation Seventh-day Adventist, about his SDA background, early baptism, education, and what led him out of the church. In our wide-ranging conversation, we discussed racial issues in Adventist schools, the Civil Rights Movement, and more. Resources / Topics Mentioned:  Video - We Are the World  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3wNuru4U0I] Topic - Public Enemy  [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Enemy] Film - Malcolm X (1992)  [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X_(1992_film)] Topic - Assassination of MLK Jr.  [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Martin_Luther_King_Jr.] Topic - Poor People's Campaign  [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_People%27s_Campaign] Topic - The 15 Year Battle for MLK Jr Day  [https://nmaahc.si.edu/explore/stories/15-year-battle-martin-luther-king-jr-day#:~:text=I%20would%20have%20preferred,reaches%20my%20desk.] Video - MLK: "A riot is the language of the unheard"  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOWDtDUKz-U&t=1476s] Topic - White Americans Celebrated MLK's Death  [https://www.macon.com/news/local/article207794114.html#:~:text=Herbert%20Dennard%20remembers,downtown%20Macon%2C%20Ga.] Topic - Ronald Reagan's wartime lies [https://www.salon.com/2015/02/07/ronald_reagans_wartime_lies_the_president_had_quite_a_brian_williams_problem/]   00:00 Intro 00:17 Meet Dee: 4th Gen Adventist 02:49 Early Memories & Fearing Ellen White 04:01 Questioning Church Teachings 09:02 A Life-Changing Tragedy 11:04 Living with Fear & Moving to Huntsville 19:01 Baptism and Religious Pressure 22:26 Purity Culture & Mixed Messages 28:51 Weird "Health Message" Fads 31:29 Racial Issues in Adventist Schools 38:11 Civil Rights, Division, MLK 43:30 Deconstructing Beliefs 47:02 How Othering Manipulates Us 53:07 The New Generation 55:29 Trickle Down Greedonomics 1:00:42 Dee's Adventist Education 1:07:16 Goodbye Oakwood, Hello Adulthood 1:11:26 Outro Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes  [https://hell.bio/notes] —  Have a story to share? Write to us [https://hell.bio/share-story], send a DM or voice message on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/haystacksnhell/], or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy  [https://hell.bio/privacy] — Twitter [https://twitter.com/haystacksnhell] • TikTok [https://www.tiktok.com/@haystacksnhell] • Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/haystacksnhell/] • YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@haystacksnhell] • Facebook  [https://www.facebook.com/haystacksnhell] —  Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/]