Living On The Edge of Chaos

Access the Show All platforms & past episodes: https://coffeeforthebrain.com/podcasts/ [https://coffeeforthebrain.com/podcasts/] Direct Link to This Episode:  Listen & Subscribe: [Apple Podcasts] [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/living-on-the-edge-of-chaos/id438001112] | [Spotify] [https://open.spotify.com/show/6wVG91PsqbE7UE8sSPSGoT] | [YouTube] [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUDkntwKJbAoNlttKaVx1-QoV8muC2Er5] | [Simplecast] [https://coffeechug.simplecast.fm/] EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS Revisiting Moxie and how closing it deepened their understanding of AI, ethics, and learning The balance between innovation and honesty when your business depends on what you critique How technical knowledge led them from excitement to skepticism Moxie “AI Sandwich” workflow and how to use AI to brainstorm and refine while keeping the human in the middle Kimberly’s story of watching her husband evolve from using AI for tests to using it to write creative scripts for science students The hidden costs of AI tokens, data, energy, attention, and what it means to “pay the real price” Why the most valuable outcomes of AI may be emotional: motivation, reassurance, and calm Rethinking productivity: what if being “more efficient” isn’t the goal? QUOTES On understanding AI as novice vs. expert > ....you can't think critically about something unless you are already an expert, unless you have some level of expertise. There came a point where we were experts enough to see… to think critically enough to say, oh, whoa, wait, hold up, hold up. What is it worth to you? > ....what would I be willing to pay if I had to pay the true cost of this? Because right now, our use of AI is fully subsidized by venture capital and these big tech companies. But if you had to pay the full cost of what that interaction was, if it's $75, would you pay for it? Power of Choice > ....what are you saying no, and what are you saying yes to? And not just in terms of financial, but all resources. Time, energy, serenity. I think about serenity as a resource for me, because I need to refill my cup. I cannot just be a yes girl, because I somehow ended up one.....what are you willing to pay for in all the different ways we pay for things, and are you saying yes to too many things? Mirage of Productivity to Save Time > And it's just crazy to think that this is gonna give us more time, and we're gonna be more productive and more efficient. No, you're just gonna get a new task......this mirage of we'll reach so much productivity that we'll have a leisure class, it'll be a four-day work week. It's never happened, and what do you know? It's not going to happen, because that is not the culture and the system that we are in, which prioritizes growth at all costs, no matter what. RESOURCES Episode 207 [https://coffeeforthebrain.com/207-2/]: The Importance of Good Writing, Curiosity, Bravery, and the Process of Living Practical AI for Educators PD for Higher Education Session 3 Breakout With Kimberly [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heHzPWR_Fus&feature=youtu.be] Jessica on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicaparker/] Kimberly on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberlypacebecker/] Link: AI Sandwich Graphic by Moxie [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jessicaparker_academicwriting-aiineducation-highered-activity-7288589479454388224-f82J/] Book: Empire of AI [https://amzn.to/3WSqd6o] Substack: Women Writin' 'Bout AI [https://substack.com/@womenwritinboutai] Podcast: Women Talkin' 'Bout AI [https://open.spotify.com/show/1bI1AYeiisN35FPvYpqRHw] SUPPORT THE SHOW If this conversation helped you pause, reflect, or think differently about AI and learning, please share it with a colleague or friend. Leaving a review or tagging the show helps others discover these important conversations.

ACCESS THE SHOW All platforms & past episodes: https://coffeeforthebrain.com/podcasts/ [https://coffeeforthebrain.com/podcasts/] Direct Link to This Episode: Listen & Subscribe: [Apple Podcasts] [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/living-on-the-edge-of-chaos/id438001112] | [Spotify] [https://open.spotify.com/show/6wVG91PsqbE7UE8sSPSGoT] | [YouTube] [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUDkntwKJbAoNlttKaVx1-QoV8muC2Er5] | [Simplecast] [https://coffeechug.simplecast.fm/] EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS *   Clare shares how a career in behavioral and neuroscience research led her to question whether her work truly served the world and how that moment of disconnection sparked a master’s in Applied Positive Psychology and a deep dive into curiosity interventions. She explains the science behind curiosity and well-being like how curiosity broadens perspective, strengthens creativity, and helps us find meaning and purpose. Clare describes creating “Curiosity Thursdays”, unpaid days dedicated to exploration and learning and how intentional time for curiosity fuels new thinking. The conversation explores balancing curiosity with productivity: scheduling curiosity intentionally, matching brain energy to task type, and building rhythms like “Wonder Wednesday” meetings to re-ignite collective wonder. Clare unpacks top-down vs. bottom-up curiosity and purposeful learning versus open, unstructured noticing and why both are essential for creativity and growth. She discusses the intersection of curiosity and AI, including how awareness and questioning keep our brains engaged rather than passive. Clare introduces her Curiosity Sprints that are two-week experiments inspired by Agile thinking designed to make learning iterative, joyful, and evidence-based. We reflect on how curiosity can help redefine success, shift from “achievement” to “enjoyment,” and re-learn the lost art of being bored. FEATURED QUOTES > On the necessity of intention > “I had to intentionally carve out that time, because otherwise something more important would always be there. There has to be an aspect of intentionality around curiosity in the world we live in today.” > On balancing curiosity and efficiency > “I’ve given myself permission, and I’ve actively chosen to be curious. Know the importance of it, be purposeful about it—and then schedule it into your day.” > On curiosity and AI > “Curiosity actually amplifies memory. So if we can ignite our curiosity before we go in and ask a question of an AI, we’ll remember more and learn more deeply.” > On slowing down and not being busy > “We are so busy all the time that we don’t really have any hobbies, or we don’t know what our hobbies are anymore. And it’s like, I don’t know how you find that when you’re always busy—you can’t listen, you can’t hear, you can’t find that creativity that’s bubbling up inside you.” > On redefining success > “I stopped asking, ‘What do I need to achieve this week?’ and started asking, ‘How can I make this week as enjoyable as possible?’ It was a shift from achievement to enjoyment—and it changed how I lived each day.” > On curiosity as practice > “When I wanted to make changes in my life, I didn’t know how. I just turned them into two-week sprints and figured it out. It’s empowering—because you’re building confidence in your own ability to learn and grow.” RESOURCES & LINKS * Clare Inkster on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/clare-inkster-1729a017/] * The Curiosity Experiment [https://www.thecuriosityexperiment.co.uk/] * The Curiosity Experiment on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/the_curiosity_experiment/] * Research and studies on amount of questions we ask through the ages [https://amorebeautifulquestion.com/why-do-kids-ask-so-many-questions-but-more-importantly-why-do-they-stop/#:~:text=Curious%20kids:%20Where%20do%20all,seeking%20explanations%2C%20not%20just%20facts.] * Clare email address clare@thecuriosityexperiment.co.uk [clare@thecuriosityexperiment.co.uk]. * Global Curiosity Institute website to measure curiosity https://www.globalcuriosityinstitute.com/diagnostics [https://www.globalcuriosityinstitute.com/diagnostics] * Your Brain At Work [https://amzn.to/494Helc] Book * Top Down vs. Botton Up Processing Video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJm_IjyKECo&t=172s] or Article [https://www.structural-learning.com/post/top-down-processing-and-bottom-up-processing] * MIT Study: Your Brain on ChatGPT [https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/your-brain-on-chatgpt/] and Clare LinkedIn Post That Inspired My Question [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/clare-inkster-1729a017_chatgpts-impact-on-our-brains-according-activity-7341512043306319872-5Nzu?utm_source=social_share_send&utm_medium=member_desktop_web&rcm=ACoAAAXV1YoBkQ-dw3qZT5sGegwyVZAGJaJopvg] * Blog post about sprints [https://www.thecuriosityexperiment.co.uk/the-curiosity-experiment-sprint-one-retrospective/] * Satya Nadella article on culture of learn-it-alls [https://fortune.com/2024/05/20/satya-nadella-microsoft-culture-growth-mindset-learn-it-alls-know-it-alls/] SUPPORT THE SHOW If this episode helped you, share it with a colleague and leave a review. It helps more educators and leaders find the show.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS *   Stephanie shares how family vacations to Disney sparked her early love for travel and curiosity about the world. She explains how formative middle and high school trips inspired her to create unique, personalized travel experiences through her company, Lost in Adventure Travel. The conversation explores how travel builds empathy and human connection by meeting people, hearing their stories, and seeing everyday life in different cultures. Stephanie discusses how being a parent influences her approach to accessible trip planning, focusing on visual schedules, pacing, and flexibility so every traveler can fully participate. Both reflect on the importance of downtime and moments of rest during travel, recognizing that learning and reflection often happen in those quiet spaces. She talks about concerts and live music as experiences that bring people together, reminding us of our shared humanity. FEATURED QUOTES Why travel matters > We as humans have a tendency to live inside our own echo chambers, and when we push ourselves beyond our comfort zone, which travel really can do, whether it's stepping on the airplane, getting on the train, just leaving our homes sometimes can be scary. It challenges our mindset, it challenges our bodies physically sometimes, it expands our worldview, it allows us to meet people that aren't just like us....it's really important to try and understand where other people are coming from, mindsets, like, physically, where do people live? How is it different than what my house looks like? How is it different than how I was raised? Power of a Guide > ....guides are the storytellers of the destination. Guides, I think, make or break a vacation Creating Wanderlust Locally > Allowing yourself to go out and try a new restaurant. Try, like, go for a hike in a place you've never been. Those kind of experiences help drive the wanderlust as well, and allow us to step outside of that comfort zone a little bit. Challenge for Living > ..don't be afraid to take that first step. Whether you are traveling to Asia, or you're exploring your town, going to the concert that you wanted to go to, allow yourself to have the human experiences. Challenge for Immersion > ...allow someone to tell you a story about where you live about the town next door, go to a museum. Allow yourself to take the tour. Don't… just be your introverted self. Don't just grab your phone and learn about it, but go out there and talk to these people. And, I just think that overall, we will be better off. LEARN MORE Stephanie on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-cantwell-93b88544/] Lost in Adventure Travel [https://lostinadventuretravel.com/] SUGGESTED PAST EPISODES 215: Born to Jump — Tara Martin on Courage, Story, and Self-Care [https://coffeeforthebrain.com/215-born-to-jump-tara-martin-on-courage-story-and-self-care-in-education/] Why it fits: Courage and story as catalysts for change which are the same muscles you need to launch travel experiences or classroom micro-adventures. 214: From Independence Day to Interdependence — Steven Puri [https://coffeeforthebrain.com/214/] Why it fits: Designing work that prioritizes culture, presence, and curiosity is perfect framing for travel as community-building. 104: Estella Owoimaha-Church — Building Empathy through the Arts [https://coffeeforthebrain.com/104/] Why it fits: A deep dive on empathy and restorative practices; complements this episode’s theme of travel as perspective-taking.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT *   Camp’s path to NEIA and why he still teaches while leading (modeling the work) Courage as the catalyst for change in any system, at any scale Competency-based assessment as a school-wide skill map (transfer across humanities, science, math, Innovation Studio) “Linear school” in a nonlinear world and how AI can help us blow up the old schedule logic Walking the fine line: college-prep and “what-comes-next” prep (love this framing) Keeping innovation alive after year 1: support systems, permission to try (and fail), and tapping teacher passions Workflow talk: using ChatGPT to organize brainstorms; Google Classroom paired with “Otis” for competencies; protecting life balance Teach what can’t be AI’d: discourse, idea-to-idea connection, and real human presence in the room One small “ruckus” for tomorrow: break the pattern with a 10-minute gallery walk or other quick shift that re-energizes learning ACCESS THE SHOW All platforms & past episodes: https://coffeeforthebrain.com/podcasts/ [https://coffeeforthebrain.com/podcasts/] Direct Link to This Episode:   Listen & Subscribe: [Apple Podcasts] [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/living-on-the-edge-of-chaos/id438001112] | [Spotify] [https://open.spotify.com/show/6wVG91PsqbE7UE8sSPSGoT] | [YouTube] [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUDkntwKJbAoNlttKaVx1-QoV8muC2Er5] | [Simplecast] [https://coffeechug.simplecast.fm/] RESOURCES & LINKS *   * Tiny Experiments Book [https://amzn.to/4mLnPsG] NEIA Profile: John Camp: https://neiacademy.org/team/john-camp/ [https://neiacademy.org/team/john-camp/] Camp on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/campsm/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/campsm/] Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death [https://amzn.to/4gSAbOn] (referenced in the discussion with link to my blog post) [https://alpha.school/] Alpha School [https://alpha.school/]: (referenced in AI discussion) HIGHLIGHTED POSTS (GOOD PRIMERS FOR LISTENERS) Why human-to-human discourse beats screen-staring (ties to “teach what can’t be AI’d”). Quick wins to break the invisible rules (small, classroom-level ruckuses). EPISODE QUOTE > If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change your attitude. Maya Angelou and > We don’t just think outside the box, we act outside the box.  Camp and our love for Neil Postman [https://www.solvingforpattern.org/2013/03/31/neil-postman-critical-thinking-in-education] > Teach children something about the art and science of asking questions. > Question-asking is the most significant intellectual tool human beings have. SUPPORT THE SHOW If this episode helped you, share it with a colleague and leave a review. It helps more educators and leaders find the show.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT Rebecca’s journey from communications into AI and ethics research. The moment in 2022 when ChatGPT changed the conversation about AI. Misconceptions: why AI is not a fad, and why it matters for everyone. Quick wins with generative AI from reading terms & conditions to learning through NotebookLM. Her mantra: “Never trust a large language model.” What that means and why human oversight is non-negotiable. The risks of over-trusting AI when it feels “human.” Opportunities in strategy: using AI for pattern-finding, scenario testing, and persona-building. Practical advice for staying safe: separating personal/work accounts and turning off data training. Why experimenting with Claude, ChatGPT, or Gemini is the best starting point. Rebecca’s daily workflow: from AI-powered health stacks to automations that save brainpower. Final advice: control the controllables, start small, and build confidence step by step. ACCESS THE SHOW All platforms & past episodes: https://coffeeforthebrain.com/podcasts/ [https://coffeeforthebrain.com/podcasts/] Direct Link to This Episode:       Listen & Subscribe: [Apple Podcasts] [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/living-on-the-edge-of-chaos/id438001112] | [Spotify] [https://open.spotify.com/show/6wVG91PsqbE7UE8sSPSGoT] | [YouTube] [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUDkntwKJbAoNlttKaVx1-QoV8muC2Er5] | [Simplecast] [https://coffeechug.simplecast.fm/] RESOURCES & LINKS Rebecca’s website [https://rebeccabultsma.com/]: rebeccabultsma.com (speaking, workshops, resources) LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-bultsma/]: linkedin.com/in/rebecca-bultsma (active posts on AI ethics, policy, comms) X (Twitter) [https://x.com/rebeccabultsma]: @rebeccabultsma — “AI awe + rational anxiety” stream and resource drops TikTok [https://www.tiktok.com/@rebeccabultsma]: @rebeccabultsma (short takes on AI, comms, and ethics) Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/commsrebecca/]: @commsrebecca (communications + AI insights) HIGHLIGHTED POSTS (GOOD PRIMERS FOR LISTENERS) “POV: You’re the ‘AI ethics’ person and not freaking out about LinkedIn’s data use.” Nuanced take on platform data and practical risk framing (great for comms leaders). LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/rebecca-bultsma_aiethics-dataprivacy-linkedin-activity-7374806481994616832-XV5a?utm_source=chatgpt.com] “Never trust an LLM” in practice. Threads/posts where she pushes for human review, disclosure, and trust-building. Pair with her SchoolCEO feature. Apptegy [https://www.apptegy.com/schoolceo/full-steam-ahead-generative-ai-for-school-communications/?utm_source=chatgpt.com] Defining AI ethics as a philosophical puzzle. Reflective post that shows her influences and systems lens. LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/rebecca-bultsma_aiethics-philosophy-ai-activity-7363600734707179520-USuY?utm_source=chatgpt.com] AI learning resources roundup. Shareable list of podcasts, newsletters, books, and courses, great on-ramp for teams. X (formerly Twitter) [https://x.com/rebeccabultsma/status/1864733004662538367?utm_source=chatgpt.com] Webinar: Navigating AI Tools in Schools. Concrete strategies for K-12; sets expectations for ethical adoption and practical wins. risevision.com [https://www.risevision.com/webinars/ai-in-schools-with-rebecca-bultsma?utm_source=chatgpt.com] COURSES & TOOLS MENTIONED: OpenAI Academy [https://platform.openai.com/academy] – Free ChatGPT classes Google AI on Coursera [https://www.coursera.org/google] – AI 101 course Anthropic Academy [https://www.anthropic.com/learn] – Free Claude courses NotebookLM [https://notebooklm.google/] – AI-powered research synthesis * The Boring Report [https://www.boringreport.org/] * GPT - JobsGPT by SmarterX * Zapier - https://zapier.com/ai  [https://zapier.com/ai] EPISODE QUOTE > “Anything you can’t do well, or you feel overwhelmed by have generative AI help you. That’s what it’s amazing for. It can be that external brain when you need it.” > > – Rebecca Bultsma SUPPORT THE SHOW If this episode helped you, share it with a colleague and leave a review. It helps more educators and leaders find the show.