Brains for Dinner: Conversations Between Neuroscientists who Happen to be Married

Episode 8: Day Dreams

Friends and family, real and virtual, we’re back after too long of a delay with our next episode of Brains for Dinner! We hope it was worth the wait. We start this episode by sharing some of the big things that have been keeping us busy these past two months, including a series of milestones for Andrea: turning 50, passing his naturalization test, and giving a kick-ass talk (as part of his promotion to Professor) about using cognitive models to understand important real-world problems. We also touch on SXSW, where Chantel presented about the role of AI in scientific discovery, and both of us got to meet some of our personal heroes and sheroes! And let’s not forget our enthusiastic recommendation of our friend Tommy Wood’s new book, The Stimulated Mind, which you can get here [https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-stimulated-mind-future-proof-your-brain-from-dementia-and-stay-sharp-at-any-age-dr-tommy-wood/06f1d3eab1a11046?ean=9780593797815&next=t&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=dsa_nonbrand&utm_content={adgroupname}&utm_term=aud-1885352274224:dsa-19959388920&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=12440232635&gbraid=0AAAAACfld40dUuzvWAH8mMeTJr8ma6Z_H&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-pHPBhCdARIsAHXYWP-5n0M8KlScFMo-cAmHYNUlkECdS3093IYrkPN2TwOqCaNSle8fnmoaAqxOEALw_wcB]! This book is changing the way I treat my brain which is a pretty big deal, since I’m not really a “because they said so” type of learner. Great work Tommy! Also, since it came up in the date questions, I feel compelled to share a few pictures of the tiny Pterodactyl we are raising. They are So. Cute. And I promise, we talk about brains (and Jason Momoa) as well. The topic of this episode is daydreams and mind wandering. You can find a link to our own paper on the topic here [https://bpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/sites.uw.edu/dist/f/2511/files/2019/11/Zhou_BrainLang2019_mindwandering.pdf]. We also discuss data from a paper suggesting that mind wandering is often related to negative moods which you can find here [https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1192439], and one that suggests a reduction in mind-wandering associated with dementia (click here [https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1818523116] to read more). If you’ve ever wondered what daydreams are for, or wished you could direct them toward different topics (more fantasy less trauma), we hope you’ll enjoy learning what we understand about why our brains do what they do! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit chantelpratphd.substack.com [https://chantelpratphd.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Episode 7: Sweet Dreams

As far as Andrea and I are aware, no one really knows why humans spend 20-25% of our time asleep producing vivid, emotional, story-like hallucinations—our brains in states that mimic waking, while our bodies remain largely paralyzed and unable to act out these hallucinations. But philosophers, psychoanalysts, and neuroscientists alike have all thrown their hats into the ring when trying to understand this phenomenon which is so central to the human experience (though all mammals have REM sleep, until we get a better idea of what consciousness is, we’ll never know whether or not they dream!). In this episode of Brains for Dinner, we share experiences of our first and most salient dreams (see Gemini’s attempt at Chantel’s first dream below) while describing some of the common theories about what dreams are for. Memory consolidation? Unprocessed emotions? Random noise? Which of these theories best explain Andrea’s dream of being a goat? (sorry I’m having too much fun with AI dream generation for this post). In this episode, we interleave our own dream experiences with known theories of why we dream. We hope you enjoy it, and will share your own experiences with us. Stay tuned for Part 2— on daydreams, and perhaps Part 3, does this relate to why psychedelics are showing therapeutic promise? Meanwhile, here are some resources to support the podcast, including a link to the description of sculpture Chantel mentions, The Winged Victory of Samothrace [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_Victory_of_Samothrace], a YouTube video of Billy Joel talking about how dreams help him compose songs [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sluKJTuEStU], the book [https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691029313/the-mathematicians-mind?srsltid=AfmBOoqt6Te0xz5y5TbOnEfZIl235IkZqxMEJUPx7NXFnzceKyQ8LCca] Andrea mentions about mathematicians dreaming up solutions, and the paper that inspired this episode, The Overfitted Brain [https://www.cell.com/patterns/fulltext/S2666-3899(21)00064-7?\_returnURL=https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S2666389921000647?showall=true] by Erik Hoel. We hope you enjoy this episode and will share your dream experiences and questions with us. Cheers :) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit chantelpratphd.substack.com [https://chantelpratphd.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Brains for Dinner Episode 6

B4D is back with a bang after a brief hiatus! We hope it was worth the wait :) Though I rarely play favorites, this is definitely one of my favorite episodes so far… In it, Andrea and I talk about our personal experiences with what we call in the field phenomenological differences, or differences in peoples subjective ways people think. Want to figure out how you think? Here’s a link to the questionnaire that Gary Lupyan [https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/s13428-020-01354-y/tables/2] created to fuel your self exploration. As you’ll learn in this episode, Andrea thinks almost entirely in images while I think almost entirely verbally. What causes this? And what does it say about what we can do differently? These are just a few of the questions that occasionally keep me up at night. Suffice it to say that when we put together a new piece of furniture from IKEA immediately after this episode, Andrea took the lead… (actual images of me reading IKEA instructions on the top left and Andrea on the bottom right) I also want to provide a link to the movie we mentioned, I am Human [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6802922/], which we had the honor of being part of. This movie is related to Andrea’s answer to my date question—which involved the idea of implanting stimulators in the brain to help with memory impairments. It addresses what it means to be human in a world in which we can interface with your brain for a variety of health reasons… And last, but definitely not least, I’d love to share what we had for dinner—one of my favorites, Andrea’s chickpea pasta and insalata caprese. For those who listen, let the record reflect that he has more than repaired his reputation as head chef after the “chicken jerky” event. We hope you enjoy this episode. Let us know what, and how, you think in the comments! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit chantelpratphd.substack.com [https://chantelpratphd.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Brains for Dinner Episode 5

I think it’s fair to say that Episode 5 of B4D reaches new highs and lows of sophistication (and that’s saying something). From lessons in how to interpret statistics, to laughing fits spawned by burping dogs, this hour of content contains something for everyone. Our musings were sparked by an article Andrea read about how reviews of books, movies, and the like have increasingly disappeared from newspapers and been outsourced to social media. Noting this, Andrea surveyed the contents of some of his “go to” news sources and found other content changes worth talking about. In the conversation that unfolds, we discuss the supply and demand for various “news” content, and the roles that curiosity, belonging, and intellectual humility play in driving our brains’ choices about what to consume. In that space, we also discuss the role of storytelling in science communication, noting that for the vast majority of human existence, stories were the data our brains consumed! And as Andrea and I get more and more experience with this podcasting thing under our belts, our dogs are getting increasingly skilled at disruption. In this episode alone, we have “thunderous toy drop” moments, an epic burp from the frat boy of our family, Kinzu, and much panting and drinking. Since we aren’t going to be renting a dog-free, sound-proof recording studio any time soon, I’m afraid this is part of our “charm.” Perhaps I will create a “Dog Sounds Bingo” card to go with the next episode of B4D. Please drop a comment if you were able to hear the three I mentioned here for an honorary prize. (I’m sorry, my dog’s been drinking again). And now a few show notes: At the beginning of the episode, Andrea asks me to name a book people were crazy about that I thought was meh. I couldn’t retrieve the name of: The Emperor of Gladness by Ocean Vuong [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/752232/the-emperor-of-gladness-oprahs-book-club-by-ocean-vuong/]. I think “meh” is too strong for me (I gave it 4 stars on Goodreads). There were many things I liked about the book: kids from disadvantaged economic and cultural backgrounds, cross-generational relationships, and lots of good brain happenings including a woman with dementia and neurodiverse youth. But I think there were too many of those things going on to spend enough time on any one of them, and other books I read that stayed in one or two of those lanes just hit me a bit deeper. They include: Stay [https://www.catherineryanhyde.com/stay], All the Colors of the Dark [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/761187/all-the-colors-of-the-dark-a-read-with-jenna-pick-by-chris-whitaker/], Tomorrow, and Tomorrow and Tomorrow [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/690750/tomorrow-and-tomorrow-and-tomorrow-by-gabrielle-zevin/], and Demon Copperhead [https://www.harpercollins.com/products/demon-copperhead-barbara-kingsolver?variant=41227655118882]. I do love a good coming of age book, and perhaps I’ve saturated my brain! Last but not least, I’ll leave you with a link to the article on Collective Intellectual Humility [https://www.cell.com/trends/cognitive-sciences/fulltext/S1364-6613(24)00228-6] that we read in the lab. I hope you enjoy this episode, with all its added bells and whistles. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit chantelpratphd.substack.com [https://chantelpratphd.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]

Brains for Dinner Episode 4

Yesterday I was watching a talk about procrastination for book research (I wasn’t procrastinating, I swear). When the cameraperson panned the audience, I saw much younger versions of Andrea and I, and it gave me all the feels. The talk was over a decade ago, and our lives were very different then—but seeing us there, taking it all in, brought me right back into the moment. I could feel the excitement I get when exposed to new ideas. And given that I had just finished delivering my first public lecture to nearly 800 people, I was also feeling a good deal of relief. As I listened to Randy provide the first theoretical explanation of procrastination I had ever heard, I looked forward to digging into the ideas more deeply afterward with Andrea. You can see our lectures on The Neuroscience of Good Decision Making here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO4C_FqNJvg] if you are interested. Sharing these deeper dives with you is our vision for Brains for Dinner, and this episode is all about how feelings shape our memories and how memories shape our feelings. We’re particularly focused on the negative aspects of this cycle as they play out in PTSD. If you enjoy the episode, please let us know and, if you feel so compelled, share with others, so we know you find what we’re doing useful! This episode was inspired, in part, by a collaboration with our colleague, clinical psychologist Lori Zoellner. Andrea and Lori recently published a paper called Remembering and Forgetting: A Dynamic Social Retrieval Theory of Posttraumatic Stress which you can read here [https://www-sciencedirect-com.offcampus.lib.washington.edu/science/article/pii/S0005796725001950?casa_token=dxpxvqds6WgAAAAA:5z7cYASCbclm4ht-H1Lkx-HGbpH-DeVA-YANGy2-No5Td13hFYU7x_01DYvyBT1Tx8pSU0L2]! I also ask about what factors contribute to who will get PTSD and he mentions one of Lori’s other papers, which you can read here [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29553763/]. We also talk about our friend (and my former professor) Charan Ranganath’s book Why We Remember [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/705542/why-we-remember-by-charan-ranganath-phd/], which I highly recommend. I had the pleasure of interviewing Charan here in Seattle when his book first came out in February and it was a blast! We hope you enjoy this episode and look forward to braining with you in the future <3 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit chantelpratphd.substack.com [https://chantelpratphd.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_1]