The Good News vs. the Good Work with Jackson Campbell Walker | Episode 279

The Local Church and the Grammar of Grace with Trygve Johnson | Episode 286

What happens when a local church closes? More than a building goes dark — something essential to the fabric of community disappears with it. Trygve Johnson, executive director of the Preach For Foundation, joins Dennis to talk about why the local church matters more than most people realize and what is lost when congregations vanish from our neighborhoods. Drawing from his three-part Substack series When the Lights Go Out, Trygve introduces the idea of the "grammar of grace" — the underlying cadence of forgiveness, belonging, and second chances that the church offers to the broader culture. When that grammar goes silent, we are left with little more than meritocracy, isolation, and the exhausting pressure to perform our way into being loved. The conversation moves from the social utility of the church to something deeper — the sacramental and theological vision of a community that does not need to earn its place at the table because, as Trig puts it, the church is the table. Along the way, Dennis and Trig talk about recruiting the next generation of pastors, the importance of Wednesday potlucks, why Jesus apparently refused to serve bad wine, and what it means to practice resurrection in a season of anxiety and decline. Shownotes: When the Lights Go Out Part One [https://trygvejohnson.substack.com/p/when-the-lights-go-out-part-1-the] When the Lights Go Out, Part Two [https://trygvejohnson.substack.com/p/when-the-lights-go-out-ee6] When the Lights Go Out, Part Three [https://trygvejohnson.substack.com/p/when-the-lights-go-out-77e] Preach For website [https://www.preachfor.org/]     Donate to Church and Main [https://buymeacoffee.com/dennislsanders] Church and Main Substack [https://churchandmain.substack.com/] Join the Church and Main Email List [https://mailchi.mp/fbfac340e2ea/churchandmain] Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/churchandmain] | Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/churchandmainpod/] | Threads [https://www.threads.net/@churchandmainpod] | Twitter [https://x.com/churchandmain] | Website [https://churchandmain.org/] | YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@churchmainpodcast]

God is Still Speaking. We Should Listen. with Katherine Willis Pershey | Episode 285

What does it mean to trust God in an age when trust itself feels almost impossible? In this episode, Dennis sits down with pastor, author, and Christian Century contributor Katherine Willis Pershey, who opens up about her journey from secular skepticism through ordained ministry to a renewed and deepening faith in the God who acts. They talk honestly about the decline of progressive mainline denominations like the UCC, asking whether the crisis is not just numerical but spiritual, rooted in a slow drift away from confidence in the resurrected Christ toward a gospel of human programs and good intentions. Katherine brings both unflinching honesty about the institutions she loves and a hard-won hope grounded not in optimism about what we can do but in the promise of what God is already doing. If you have ever felt the tension between pursuing justice and trusting in grace, or wondered whether the church can find its way through death to resurrection, this conversation is for you. Shownotes: Life, Death, and Resurrection in the United Church of Christ [https://katherinewillispershey.substack.com/p/life-death-and-resurrection-in-the] Please, liberal Christians, read Eugene Peterson [https://www.christiancentury.org/features/please-liberal-christians-read-eugene-peterson] Every day is Holy Saturday [https://mbird.com/theology/every-day-is-holy-saturday/] Katherine's website [https://www.katherinewillispershey.com/]     Donate to Church and Main [https://buymeacoffee.com/dennislsanders] Church and Main Substack [https://churchandmain.substack.com/] Join the Church and Main Email List [https://mailchi.mp/fbfac340e2ea/churchandmain] Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/churchandmain] | Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/churchandmainpod/] | Threads [https://www.threads.net/@churchandmainpod] | Twitter [https://x.com/churchandmain] | Website [https://churchandmain.org/] | YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@churchmainpodcast]

Navigating the AI Apocalypse with Michael DeLashmutt | Episode 284

What does artificial intelligence reveal about what it means to be human—and what does faith have to say about it? In this episode, host Dennis Sanders sits down with the Reverend Michael DeLashmutt, Senior Vice President, Dean of the Chapel, and Associate Professor of Theology at General Theological Seminary in New York City, for a wide-ranging conversation about theology, technology, and the age of AI. Michael argues that we are living through an "AI apocalypse"—not in the science fiction sense, but in the original meaning of the word: an unveiling. Rather than treating AI as something entirely new and frightening, he situates it within a long history of information technologies that have always shaped human life and the spread of the gospel, from Roman roads to the printing press to Zoom worship during the pandemic. But Michael also issues a challenge: our culture has long reduced what it means to be human to intelligence and cognition alone, and AI is forcing us to confront the limits of that thin understanding. Drawing on Christian theology, neuroscience, and philosophy, he makes the case for a richer, more embodied vision of humanity—one rooted in relationship, presence, and the belief that our bodies matter to God. Shownotes: Theology After Intelligence [https://michaeldelashmutt.substack.com/p/theology-after-intelligence] by Michael DeLashmutt Michael's website [https://www.makingtheology.org/]   Related Episodes: Can AI Help or Hinder Human Flourishing? with Paul Hoffman | Episode 266 [https://churchandmain.org/episode/can-ai-help-or-hinder-human-flourishing-with-paul-hoffman-episode-266]   Donate to Church and Main [https://buymeacoffee.com/dennislsanders] Church and Main Substack [https://churchandmain.substack.com/] Join the Church and Main Email List [https://mailchi.mp/fbfac340e2ea/churchandmain] Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/churchandmain] | Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/churchandmainpod/] | Threads [https://www.threads.net/@churchandmainpod] | Twitter [https://x.com/churchandmain] | Website [https://churchandmain.org/] | YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@churchmainpodcast]

Prophets, Politicians, and Partisans with Ryan Self | Episode 283

In an era of social media influencers and viral hot takes, the word "prophetic" gets thrown around constantly — but usually it just means "someone saying things I agree with."  Dennis Sanders sits down with writer and communications professional Ryan Self to dig into what the biblical prophets actually looked like, and why today's version often falls dangerously short. Ryan, who writes the Substack Ryan's Boring Book Club, recently published a two-part series — Preachers, Prophets, and Politicians — examining how the religious left and right are both falling into the same trap: mistaking tribal partisanship for genuine moral courage. From megachurch pastors building empires on outrage clicks, to progressive Christian influencers spreading election conspiracies, to politicians wrapping their campaigns in the language of the gospel, Dennis and Ryan explore how audience capture, social media incentives, and the hunger for a platform are quietly eroding the church's credibility. Shownotes: Preachers, Prophets and Politicians (Part 1) [https://ryanclarkself.substack.com/p/preachers-prophets-and-politicians] Preachers, Prophets and Politicians (Part Two) [https://ryanclarkself.substack.com/p/preachers-prophets-and-politicians-835] Don't make Colbert a free speech martyr [https://ryanclarkself.substack.com/p/dont-make-colbert-a-free-speech-martyr] Related Episodes: LGBTQ Allies and Effective Inclusion with Ryan Self | Episode 243 [https://churchandmain.org/episode/lgbtq-allies-and-effective-inclusion-with-ryan-self-episode-243]   Donate to Church and Main [https://buymeacoffee.com/dennislsanders] Church and Main Substack [https://churchandmain.substack.com/] Join the Church and Main Email List [https://mailchi.mp/fbfac340e2ea/churchandmain] Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/churchandmain] | Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/churchandmainpod/] | Threads [https://www.threads.net/@churchandmainpod] | Twitter [https://x.com/churchandmain] | Website [https://churchandmain.org/] | YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@churchmainpodcast]

The Problem With "Christian Nationalism" with Heath Carter | Episode 282

The term "Christian nationalism" is everywhere — but is it actually helping us understand our political moment, or making things worse? Princeton Theological Seminary professor Heath Carter joins host Dennis to make a provocative case: the term has become so broad and loosely applied that it's lost its usefulness, and may be deepening the very polarization it aims to diagnose. Carter argues that while genuinely dangerous, illiberal movements exist — think theocrats actively working to undermine pluralistic democracy — the label too often gets applied to any Christian who voted for Trump. That kind of broad brush lets mainline Protestants off the hook for their own role in America's political story, while alienating the very voters the left needs to win back. The conversation ranges from the forgotten history of progressive Christianity and the Social Gospel, to the Democratic Party's complicated relationship with faith, to why curiosity and genuine engagement may matter more than the right terminology. Carter also reflects on what politicians like James Talarico can teach us about speaking the language of faith without surrendering pluralism. Shownotes: Americans Should Stop Using the Term "Christian Nationalism" [https://www.theatlantic.com/books/2026/03/how-christian-nationalist-became-epithet/686279/] (Heath's article in The Atlantic Heath Carter's website [https://heathwcarter.com/] Related Episodes: Is Christian Nationalism Really A Problem? with Ted Peters | Episode 181 [https://churchandmain.org/episode/is-christian-nationalism-really-a-problem-with-ted-peters-episode-181] Did Mainline Protestants Birth Christian Nationalism with Beau Underwood | Episode 186 [https://churchandmain.org/episode/did-mainline-protestants-birth-christian-nationalism-with-beau-underwood-episode-186] Christian Nationalism or Christian Conservatism with Mark Tooley | Episode 195 [https://churchandmain.org/episode/christian-nationalism-or-christian-conservatism-with-mark-tooley-episode-195]   Donate to Church and Main [https://buymeacoffee.com/dennislsanders] Church and Main Substack [https://churchandmain.substack.com/] Join the Church and Main Email List [https://mailchi.mp/fbfac340e2ea/churchandmain] Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/churchandmain] | Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/churchandmainpod/] | Threads [https://www.threads.net/@churchandmainpod] | Twitter [https://x.com/churchandmain] | Website [https://churchandmain.org/] | YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@churchmainpodcast]