Conversations with Tyler

Brendan Foody on Teaching AI and the Future of Knowledge Work

At 22, Brendan Foody is both the youngest Conversations with Tyler guest ever and the youngest unicorn founder on record. His company Mercor hires the experts who train frontier AI models—from poets grading verse to economists building evaluation frameworks—and has become one of the fastest-growing startups in history. Tyler and Brendan discuss why Mercor pays poets $150 an hour, why AI labs need rubrics more than raw text, whether we should enshrine the aesthetic standards of past eras rather than current ones, how quickly models are improving at economically valuable tasks, how long until AI can stump Cass Sunstein, the coming shift toward knowledge workers building RL environments instead of doing repetitive analysis, how to interview without falling for vibes, why nepotism might make a comeback as AI optimizes everyone's cover letters, scaling the Thiel Fellowship 100,000X, what his 8th-grade donut empire taught him about driving out competition, the link between dyslexia and entrepreneurship, dining out and dating in San Francisco, Mercor's next steps, and more. Read a full transcript [https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/brendan-foody/] enhanced with helpful links, or watch the full video [https://youtu.be/zld39xD4sus] on the new dedicated Conversations with Tyler channel. Recorded October 16th, 2025. Other ways to connect * Follow us on X [https://twitter.com/cowenconvos] and Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/cowenconvos/?hl=en] * Follow Tyler [https://twitter.com/tylercowen] on X * Follow Brendan [https://x.com/BrendanFoody] on X * Sign up for our newsletter [https://mercatus.tfaforms.net/5060931] * Join our Discord [https://discord.gg/JAVWP7vTxt] * Email us: cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu [cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu] * Learn more about Conversations with Tyler and other Mercatus Center podcasts here [https://www.mercatus.org/podcasts]. Timestamps 00:00:00 - Hiring poets to teach AI 00:05:29 - Measuring real-world AI progress 00:13:25 - Why rubrics are the new oil 00:18:44 - Enshrining taste in LLMs 00:22:38 - Turning society into one giant RL machine 00:26:37 - When AI will stump experts 00:30:46 - AI and employment 00:35:05 - Why vibes-based hiring fails 00:39:55 - Solving labor market matching problems 00:45:01 - Scaling the Thiel Fellowship 00:48:11 - A hypothetical gap year 00:50:31 - Donuts, debates, and dyslexia 00:56:15 - Dating and dining out 00:59:01 - Mercor's next steps

Conversations with Tyler 2025 Retrospective

Help us keep the conversations going in 2026. Donate [https://mercatus.donorsupport.co/page/cowenconvos26?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=eoy26] to Conversations with Tyler today. On this special year-in-review episode, Tyler and producer Jeff Holmes look back on the past year on CWT and more, including covering the most popular and underrated episodes, why single-subject deep dives made for some of the best conversations this year, the biggest AI surprises and how LLMs changed the show's production function, what happened with the Magnus Carlsen episode, listener questions on everything from hotel selection to AI x-risk discourse, Tyler's serene acknowledgment that uncontrollable laughter is something he has neither experienced nor desires, reviewing his pop culture picks from 2015, and a dispatch from Muscat, Oman. Read a full transcript [https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/conversations-wi%E2%80%A625-retrospective/] enhanced with helpful links, or watch the full video [https://youtu.be/7PfAkGErxS0] on the new dedicated Conversations with Tyler channel. Recorded November 5th and December 15th, 2025. Other ways to connect * Follow us on X [https://twitter.com/cowenconvos] and Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/cowenconvos/?hl=en] * Follow Tyler [https://twitter.com/tylercowen] on X * Follow Jeff [https://x.com/Jeff_Holmes] on X * Sign up for our newsletter [https://mercatus.tfaforms.net/5060931] * Join our Discord [https://discord.gg/JAVWP7vTxt] * Email us: cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu [cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu] * Learn more about Conversations with Tyler and other Mercatus Center podcasts here [https://www.mercatus.org/podcasts]. Timestamps 00:00:00 - Favorite episodes of the year 00:12:08 - AI's impact on the show 00:15:05 - The lost Magnus episode 00:17:13 - Tyler's #1 hotel amenity 00:18:40 - Tyler's growing influence and thoughts on tariffs 00:21:15 - AI x-risk discourse 00:26:22 – Copying Tyler's interview style 00:28:50 - Tyler's lack of joy 00:32:55 - How well ChatGPT answers as Tyler 00:35:15 - Tyler's 2015 movie picks 00:40:44 - Tyler's 2015 book picks 00:45:00 - Tyler's 2015 music picks 00:48:16 - Most popular episodes and thoughts on Oman Photo Credit: Kevin Trimmer

Alison Gopnik on Childhood Learning, AI as a Cultural Technology, and Rethinking Nature vs. Nurture

Help us keep the conversations going in 2026. Donate [https://mercatus.donorsupport.co/page/cowenconvos26?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=eoy26] to Conversations with Tyler today. Alison Gopnik is both a psychologist and philosopher at Berkeley, studying how children construct theories of the world from limited data. Her central insight is that babies learn like scientists, running experiments and updating beliefs based on evidence. But Tyler wonders: are scientists actually good learners? It's a question that leads them into a wide-ranging conversation about what we've been systematically underestimating in young minds, what's wrong with simple nature-versus-nurture frameworks, and whether AI represents genuine intelligence or just a very sophisticated library. Tyler and Alison cover how children systematically experiment on the world and what study she'd run with $100 million, why babies are more conscious than adults and what consciousness even means, episodic memory and aphantasia, whether Freud got anything right about childhood and what's held up best from Piaget, how we should teach young children versus school-age kids, how AI should change K-12 education and Gopnik's case that it's a cultural technology rather than intelligence, whether the enterprise of twin studies makes sense and why she sees nature versus nurture as the wrong framework entirely, autism and ADHD as diagnostic categories, whether the success of her siblings belies her skepticism about genetic inheritance, her new project on the economics and philosophy of caregiving, and more. Read a full transcript [https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/alison-gopnik/] enhanced with helpful links, or watch the full video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIFdeXPB1Pg] on the new dedicated Conversations with Tyler channel. Recorded October 30th, 2025. Other ways to connect * Follow us on X [https://twitter.com/cowenconvos] and Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/cowenconvos/?hl=en] * Follow Tyler [https://twitter.com/tylercowen] on X * Follow Alison [https://x.com/AlisonGopnik] on X * Sign up for our newsletter [https://mercatus.tfaforms.net/5060931] * Join our Discord [https://discord.gg/JAVWP7vTxt] * Email us: cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu [cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu] * Learn more about Conversations with Tyler and other Mercatus Center podcasts here [https://www.mercatus.org/podcasts]. Timestamps 00:00:00 - How children—and scientists—learn 00:14:35 - Consciousness, episodic memories, and aphantasia 00:23:06 - Freud's and Piaget's theories about childhood 00:27:49 - Twin studies and nature vs. nurture 00:39:33 - Teaching strategies for younger vs. older children 00:44:07 - AI's ability to generate novel insights 00:53:57 - What Autism and ADHD diagnoses do and don't reveal 00:58:02 - The success of the Gopnik siblings Photo Credit: Rod Searcey

Gaurav Kapadia on New York City, Investing, and Contemporary Art

Help us keep the conversations going in 2026. Donate [https://mercatus.donorsupport.co/page/cowenconvos26?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=eoy26] to Conversations with Tyler today. Gaurav Kapadia has deliberately avoided publicity throughout his career in investing, which makes this conversation a rare window into how he thinks. He now runs XN, a firm built around concentrated bets on a small number of companies with long holding periods. However, his education in judgment began much earlier, in a two-family house in Flushing that his parents converted into a four-family house. It was there where a young Gaurav served as de facto landlord, collecting rent and negotiating late payments at age 10. That grounding now expresses itself across an unusual range of domains: Tyler invited him on the show not just as an investor, but as someone with a rare ability to judge quality in cities, talent, art, and more with equal fluency. Tyler and Gaurav discuss how Queens has thrived without new infrastructure, what he'd change as "dictator" of Flushing, whether Robert Moses should rise or fall in status, who's the most underrated NYC mayor, what's needed to attract better mayoral candidates, the weirdest place in NYC, why he initially turned down opportunities in investment banking for consulting, bonding with Rishi Sunak over railroads, XN's investment philosophy, maintaining founder energy in investment firms and how he hires to prevent complacency, AI's impact on investing, the differences between New York and London finance, the most common fundraising mistake art museums make, why he collects only American artists within 20 years of his own age, what makes Kara Walker and Rashid Johnson and Salman Toor special, whether buying art makes you a better investor, his new magazine Totei celebrating craft and craftsmanship, and much more. Read a full transcript [https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/gaurav-kapadia/] enhanced with helpful links, or watch the full video [https://youtu.be/xWgnW_awQw4] on the new dedicated Conversations with Tyler channel. Recorded October 8th, 2025. Other ways to connect * Follow us on X [https://twitter.com/cowenconvos] and Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/cowenconvos/?hl=en] * Follow Tyler [https://twitter.com/tylercowen] on X * Follow Gaurav [https://x.com/gauravkapadia] on X * Sign up for our newsletter [https://mercatus.tfaforms.net/5060931] * Join our Discord [https://discord.gg/JAVWP7vTxt] * Email us: cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu [cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu] * Learn more about Conversations with Tyler and other Mercatus Center podcasts here [https://www.mercatus.org/podcasts]. Timestamps 00:00:00 - Intro 00:01:32 - Queens and NYC's geography 00:08:36 - New York City mayors and electoral politics 00:13:22 - Building a career in investing 00:18:50 - XN's investment philosophy 00:24:35 - Maintaining founder energy in investment firms 00:30:45 - The sociology of finance in NYC, London, and UAE 00:32:21 - How AI is reshaping investing 00:36:53 - Museum operations 00:42:21 - Favorite artists 00:50:39 - Tastes in art and how the canon will evolve 00:57:22 - Totei, a new venture

Dan Wang on What China and America Can Learn from Each Other

Help us keep the conversations going in 2026. Donate [https://mercatus.donorsupport.co/page/cowenconvos26?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=shownotes&utm_campaign=eoy26] to Conversations with Tyler today. Dan Wang argues that China is a nation of engineers while America is a nation of lawyers, and this distinction explains everything from subway construction to pandemic response to why Chinese citizens will never have yards with dogs. His prescription: America should become 20% more engineering-minded to fix its broken infrastructure, while China needs to be 50% more lawyerly so the Communist Party can stop strangling individual rights and the creative impulses of its people. But would a more lawyerly China constrain state power, or just create new tools for oppression? And aren't the American suburbs actually sterling achievements where the infrastructure works quite well? Tyler and Dan debate whether American infrastructure is actually broken or just differently optimized, why health care spending should reach 35% of GDP, how lawyerly influences shaped East Asian development differently than China, China's lack of a liberal tradition and why it won't democratize like South Korea or Taiwan did, its economic dysfunction despite its manufacturing superstars, Chinese pragmatism and bureaucratic incentives, a 10-day itinerary for Yunnan, James C. Scott's work on Zomia, whether Beijing or Shanghai is the better city, Liu Cixin and why volume one of The Three-Body Problem is the best, why contemporary Chinese music and film have declined under Xi, Chinese marriage markets and what it's like to be elderly in China, the Dan Wang production function, why Stendhal is his favorite novelist and Rossini's Comte Ory moves him, what Dan wants to learn next, whether LLMs will make Tyler's hyper-specific podcast questions obsolete, what flavor of drama their conversation turned out to be, and more. Read a full transcript [https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/dan-wang/] enhanced with helpful links, or watch the full video [https://youtu.be/qCGG3s4Luyw] on the new dedicated Conversations with Tyler channel. Recorded October 31st, 2025. Other ways to connect * Follow us on X [https://twitter.com/cowenconvos] and Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/cowenconvos/?hl=en] * Follow Tyler [https://twitter.com/tylercowen] on X * Follow Dan [https://x.com/danwwang] on X * Sign up for our newsletter [https://mercatus.tfaforms.net/5060931] * Join our Discord [https://discord.gg/JAVWP7vTxt] * Email us: cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu [cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu] * Learn more about Conversations with Tyler and other Mercatus Center podcasts here [https://www.mercatus.org/podcasts]. Timestamps 00:00:00 - American infrastructure and suburban life 00:05:18 - American vs. Chinese infrastructure buildouts... 00:12:25 - And health care investment 00:17:52 - Chinese suburbs 00:20:10 - The existing lawyerly influence in East Asia 00:25:12 - China's lack of a liberal tradition 00:29:35 - Why China's won't democratize 00:33:49 - China's economic disfunction 00:38:44 - China's expansionism 00:41:55 - Chinese pragmatism and bureaucratic incentives 00:46:50 - Chinese cities and regional culture 00:59:44 - James C. Scott, Zomia, and elite culture 01:06:27 - A 10-day Yunnan itinerary 01:11:57 - On Chinese arts, literature, and cultural expression 01:18:23 - The Dan Wang production function 01:30:34 - Tyler's grand strategy, or lack thereof