Matthew Kang

Matthew Kang

This week I sit down with the one and only Matthew Kang [https://www.instagram.com/mattatouille/], Eater correspondent, host of K-Town, and the man behind Kangtown [https://www.eater.com/newsletters], the must-read newsletter for anyone who eats on the West Coast. Matthew has built an entire career out of dining out, and now he’s doing it with a two kids in tow. He shares his Five Rules for Balancing Dad Life and Dining Out, from taking your kids to restaurants as early as possible, to creating your family’s own dining culture, to why there’s absolutely no shame in having an exit strategy — go-home bag and all. Whether you’re a parent trying to keep your restaurant life alive or just someone who believes the table is where family happens, this one’s for you. This conversation hit especially close to home for me. Like Matthew, I grew up understanding that so much of life happens around the table, and it’s a tradition my wife and I have carried on with our own two kids. Watching our kids learn to order off a menu, talk about what they’re eating, and become regulars at our neighborhood spots — that’s the good stuff. Those are the core memories Matthew talks about, the ones that don’t just stay with you but define who you are. Here’s to early reservations, supporting the restaurants we love, and raising the next generation of great diners. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz [https://www.instagram.com/darinbresnitz/]. Today, I’m joined by professional eater Matthew Kang [https://www.instagram.com/mattatouille/], who is a correspondent for Eater and whose newsletter, Kang Town [https://www.eater.com/newsletters], is a must-read for anyone who wants to know where to eat in Los Angeles. He’s here to share his five rules for balancing dad life and dining out. We talk about the importance of dining out with your kids as young as possible, how to create your family’s own dining culture, and how there’s no shame in having an exit strategy for any meal out. It’s a great conversation for those who have young children or kids at all and who want to keep going out, eating at restaurants, and supporting the culinary community. So let’s get into the rules. Life as a Professional Diner Matthew, so good to see you. It’s nice to be sitting down with you for a chat instead of making small talk at one of LA’s numerous culinary events. Appreciate you making the time. Yeah, thanks for having me. You have made a career out of dining out. What do you remember about those early days when your only responsibility was going to restaurants? I had no limit. The goal was to go to as many restaurants as possible. And it was this game. Could I do two dinners? Could I do three dinners? How many meals could I do in an entire week? Now I’m constrained by age and family and responsibilities and just health. When the doctor goes, “I can’t believe the number I’m seeing for cholesterol for the fifth time,” you go, all right, I promise more than just the fish oil. I try to cut out the not good stuff as much as possible. Being a professional diner is obviously something that you love personally. When you had your first kid, do you remember some of the warnings that people gave you about dining out that just never proved out to be true? I feel like a lot of people that I know, a lot of parents, they just gave up. They were like, don’t even try. It’s too much work. For me, when I started out, I was trying to figure out how do I maximize my enjoyment and also manage the tolerance of everyone. My wife, the baby, other diners. Of course. It’s just such a game to consider everyone’s well-being. As you get more reps, we live to go and enjoy each other’s company, and I feel like that really works so well in a restaurant setting. Absolutely. Everything’s so digital, everything’s so virtual. If I can teach my family and my kids — we sit down here, we’re going to talk about the food, we’re going to talk about this restaurant, we’re going to talk about your day and how you’re doing — that is so grounding, the routine of a restaurant. Even if it’s a new restaurant, the act of sitting down, ordering from a menu, all that action really helps your family become a family. It decides what kind of unit it wants to be. And that’s how it was for me growing up. My family went to a lot of restaurants. My dad was a businessman and went to fancy places, steakhouses. I think it was really helpful for me. It really defined our family. Being able to get out there and actively practice in being a dad, having your kids out to eat is really the only way that you can learn how to find this way. Eating at restaurants, whether they be the fancy steakhouse or the local taco joint — which is why I’m so excited for you to chat about your five rules for balancing dad life and dining out. And you alluded to this, how early you started, when your parents started taking you out, which ties directly into your rule number one. Rule #1: Start as Young as Possible Rule number one is start as young as possible. Making dining part of your family’s routine, something you do regularly, not just on special occasions. It helps set up expectation. For my son, Enzo, we’ll tell him we’re going to go to a restaurant. We’re gonna meet this person, maybe an aunt or an uncle or a friend. We’re gonna have a night out. We’re gonna do something special. And ultimately, when we sit down, it’s a fun exercise to be like, all right, what are we gonna eat today? It’s not just the same thing. It’s not just your basic mac and cheese or your chicken tenders or whatever that you’re getting. We started him when he was probably two weeks old. I love it. We went to Augie’s in Santa Monica, and now we probably go out to a restaurant three or four times a week together as a family on average. There’s still some initial resistance, but he’s down for the most part. Start making a routine out of going out to eat, and you can really start to look at it as setting these boundaries that the kids can feel safe in, because they recognize it’s something that your family does together. Which is a big part of your rule number two. Rule #2: Create Your Family’s Own Dining Culture My second rule is creating our family’s own dining culture. Some other things that I did — at least for me, growing up in our household, we would always pray before meals, even if we were at a restaurant, which can be slightly embarrassing and kind of awkward. And it’s not something that I necessarily do now in my family, but it was interesting because I was like, wow, we’re publicly displaying something. One of the toughest shifts I have found in dining out and finding that balance between dining out solo, or dining out for work, or dining with your family, is the timing of everything. A lot of times I’m sitting down for a meal and I see people coming in at 9pm and I go, you’re absolutely nuts. Who wants to sit down at that time? But I know that when you’re going out to eat professionally, sometimes a late reservation is necessary. Balancing that out with an early reservation for your family so you can make it all happen is a big part of your rule number three. Rule #3: Early with the Family, Late When Going Solo My rule number three is early with the family, late when going solo or meeting others. This really worked out well for me and our family when we were in Asia recently. In general, I always propose eat as early as possible. Even if your kid doesn’t seem hungry, by the time food actually lands on the table, they will be. I’m with you. I love going there when it’s like not as busy. I’m not fighting for a reservation. I’m not waiting for a table. The restaurant’s kind of winding down. You can talk to service staff. For me, in my position, my biggest thing is networking and talking to chefs and sommeliers and servers and really anybody in the restaurant to try to see how they’re doing, how they’re feeling, get some inside intel. That tends to happen later in the night. So I go on opposite sides if I’m trying to balance the job of being a professional diner. You’ve gotten the family together, everyone’s on board for dining out, got the reservation you wanted, and every once in a while the wheels just come off, even with the best intentions. Everyone’s looking at me — I promise my kids are good eaters, this rarely happens — but you gotta come prepared, which is a core value of your rule number four. Rule #4: Have an Exit Strategy I have an exit strategy. 100%. I would say my wife is the hero and does most of the active attending to my son. There’s just times where he’s not having it. He’s tired. He wants to get out. If we’re in the restaurant, it’s still mid-meal, I have this policy where, okay, all right, Enzo, we’re going outside. It’s 7:30 and you’re starting to ask for the check, wind down. I like to have the opposite of a go bag. It’s like a go home bag, where you got pajamas, you got toothbrush, diapers, anything you need, getting the kid ready so that when you put him in the car, hopefully they’ll fall asleep. That’s the dream. Having that successful night out and creating those memories is what it’s all really about. Your fifth and final rule deals directly with creating these moments and what it’s all about. What’s your rule number five? Rule #5: There’s Nothing Better Than the Joy of Eating Together My rule number five is there’s nothing better than the joy of eating together. We live in this world that’s so busy, it’s so digital, it’s so in your face, distracting. Yes. It’s hard, because at the table you see people with their phones, you see kids with their devices, you see all those things where the distraction continues. Yeah. It’s not going to be perfect, but I try whenever possible to sit down, just soak it in. Sometimes it doesn’t require words. Sometimes it just requires pressing that record button on your brain to be like, this is awesome. I think that’s why we work hard. That’s why we make the sacrifices that we do to have these experiences. My family, it almost seems rote. We’ve been to so many restaurants, maybe a hundred restaurants, even the little Japanese market, slurping up noodles. I really enjoy that. Those are core memories, but not just like core memories. They’re core things that define who you are. Yeah. Your relationship with your world. Your parents are there. You get to see what a family can do to support each other, to feel love. Sometimes it’s a place where you vent and where you air out frustration and resolve those things. It’s not always happy, it’s not always sad, it’s not always perfect. That’s life, and I want to live in that life. Closing It’s so beautiful, and so much life happens together around the table with your family. Matthew, congrats on the new baby and also the newsletter and everything going on. If people want to read your writing or see what you’re up to, where can they go? You can follow me on Instagram at @mattatouille [https://www.instagram.com/mattatouille/] and subscribe to my newsletter, Kang Town [https://www.eater.com/newsletters]. Here’s to your next successful meal out. Looking forward to running into you at the 5:30 tables somewhere in Los Angeles sooner than later. Yes, thank you. Follow the host: Darin Bresnitz on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/darinbresnitz/] | Follow the guest: Matthew Kang on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/mattatouille/] | Subscribe to Kang Town [https://www.eater.com/newsletters] Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe [https://fiverules.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Adrianne Calvo

Chef Adrianne Calvo [https://www.instagram.com/chefadrianne/?hl=en] has built a life around the belief that flavor is the ultimate north star. As the chef, writer, and restaurateur behind Chef Adrianne's Vineyard Restaurant and Bar [https://chefadriannes.com/] in Miami, she has spent her career proving that the fundamentals never go out of style. In this episode, she breaks down her Five Rules for Cooking with Maximum Flavor — from why the real work happens before anything ever hits the pan, to how controlling moisture is the secret most cooks overlook, to why the final ten percent of a dish is responsible for ninety percent of its impact. Whether you are cooking for the people you love or just trying to get more out of what you make at home, this one will change the way you think about what's on your plate. What I love about sitting down with Chef Adrianne is that she reminds you that flavor is not a technique, it's a commitment. It's easy to chase trends, to pile on ingredients, to rush to the finish line — and she calls all of that out with such clarity and warmth that you immediately want to go back into the kitchen and start over. The way she talks about tension, contrast, and intention made me think less about cooking and more about how the best experiences in life are the ones that engage you rather than just comfort you. That's the kind of conversation that sticks with you long after the meal is over For my first piece for Caper [https://caper.media/], I wrote about Jingbo Lou [https://caper.media/p/landlord-betting-on-los-angeles-restaurants-alpine-court] and the incredible community he has helped build at L.A.’s Alpine Courtyard. His approach to the landlord-tenant relationship is a true innovation and something that could be a north star for the shifting restaurant landscape. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m in Miami sitting down with chef, writer, restaurateur, and teacher, Adrianne Calvo, whose spot, Chef Adrianne’s Vineyard, Restaurant, and Bar, has been serving up. She’s here to share her five rules for cooking with maximum flavor. She talks about the importance of preparation before putting anything in the pan, that the amount of moisture in a dish can be maker and that the final 10% of finishing determines 90% of its impact. It is a great conversation for anyone who leads with flavor in the kitchen as looking for extra tips to get the most out of what they make at home. So let’s get into the rules. Getting Started: A Culinary Journey Chef Adrianne, so nice to meet you. Thank you for sitting down with me all the way from Miami. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. You got into the culinary world at such a young age. What foods and flavors drew you in? I got into the — yeah, I wanted to be a journalist. I was put in a cooking class by mistake my junior year of high school, and it wasn’t until Johnson and Wales University came in and did a demo doing a strawberry and cream cheese stuffed French toast that completely enchanted and captivated me. That exact dish that made me switch paths for the rest of my life. Hopping on this path must have opened up such a big world to you and put you on so many adventures, including heading to Napa Valley, which was a big inspiration for you in your life and your restaurant, Chef Adrianne’s Vineyard Restaurant and Bar. What was it about that area that inspired you so much? One of the culinary competitions that I had won while at Johnson & Wales University, and I chose to go to Napa Valley because going to culinary school, they really focus on that connection of the land, the food, and the wine and how it makes people feel. I’ve been hearing about for two years now. I want to feel it. I want to go experience it. And I wasn’t even of legal drinking age. Boots on the ground. I remember going with my mom and I was like, oh my gosh, everything they said is real. This is like Narnia for bon vivant. I remember thinking one day, if I ever have a restaurant, I want to bring that feeling to Miami. At that time, Miami was really missing the mark. There was no connection to land, food, wine, sitting down at a table, bursting with different flavors, really knowing the story of where your food came from. Don’t even get me started on the wine. I don’t even know if Miami knew the term wine in the early 2000s. Napa really inspired my very first restaurant, Chef Adrian’s Vineyard Restaurant and Bar. That’s not to say that your restaurant doesn’t follow those, but it seems that flavor is your North Star. Oh, yes. Why does that element of cooking dictate everything you do? It’s the fundamental belief that trends come and go. And much like fashion, Coco Chanel that said, what’s great will always be great. I’m just paraphrasing it. That’s what classics are. And you are right. We don’t follow trends. We’re actually the opposite of that. The human experience of being able to find the guiding principles in your cooking and your life and your business makes me so excited for you to share your five rules for cooking with maximum flavor. Rule #1: Build Flavor Before Heat Ever Touches the Pan Your first rule is something that I have gotten so much better at and learned the importance of as I’ve cooked over the years. What’s your rule number one? Rule number one is build flavor before heat ever touches the pan. So many people rush to get things in a pan. Maximum flavor doesn’t begin at the stove. It begins in preparation, seasoning your proteins in advance, tempering ingredients the right way, and understanding how salt migrates and what separates dimensional cooking from flat execution. Rule #2: Control Moisture Like It’s Currency You talk about salt and you talk about adding flavor. Some of the times when people prepare a dish in advance, there’s a marinade or they’re drawing moisture out. It can affect the way that things actually cook, especially if you’re looking for a crust with the steak or a nice type of sear. Your rule number two talks about keeping this in mind when it comes to moisture. Rule number two is control moisture like its currency. Water is the silent saboteur of flavor. Excess moisture prevents caramelization and this is like a big deal for me. So many cooks and even well-trained chefs don’t realize you just take a scallop that’s very moist by nature and you season it and then you throw it in a pan to try and get that nice sear on it. Yeah. You’re never going to get a sear. You’re just going to poach or steam that scallop. You’re never going to get color on it. You’re going to overcook it to death. Removing that moisture, taking that extra step to pat it dry. Oh my goodness, that’s a secret. You want that sear, that char, and you can only achieve that by removing the moisture. Rule #3: Layer with Intent, Not Excess Removing items when you’re cooking and editing, especially when you reference someone like Coco Chanel, is really important to achieve the final result that you want. And even though you talk about maximum flavor, that doesn’t always mean more is more. What’s your rule number three? Rule number three is layer with intent, not excess. More ingredients do not equal more flavor. Precision does. Intention does. Think in layers. Fat for richness, acid for lift, salt for amplification, heat for a little intrigue, and texture for memory. Just think of something simple like a burger or a hot dog, and sometimes people will put potato chips on it, and that crunch really makes a difference. Just having that sensory really makes for that unforgettable bite. The fat versus the acid, the salt versus the sweet — that balancing of flavors really does make an impact when you’re putting together any sort of either savory or sweet dish or just cooking for something that really is going to awaken the palate. Your rule number four talks about how comfort isn’t always the goal. Rule #4: Cook for Contrast, Not Comfort Oh no. What’s your fourth rule? Rule number four is cook for contrast, not comfort. The palate remembers tension. Crisp against tender, bright against deep, hot against cool. Oh my gosh, when you think hot against cool you just think of warm apple caramel tart and then cold ice cream. A perfectly cooked dish without contrast is forgettable. A dish that plays with opposition becomes addictive. Great cooking doesn’t soothe, it engages you. You put all this time into cooking, you’ve had this preparation, you’ve thought about the balance, you’ve controlled the moisture. Your fifth and final rule talks about pulling it all together and it’s where a lot of people, including myself, get really nervous right before you present what you’ve cooked to the people you love. What’s your rule number five? Rule #5: Finish Like It Matters Finish like it matters because you’re cooking for the people you love. Oftentimes, you’re pulling it out of the oven. You just, boom, goes on the table. It’s a race to the finish line. But the final 10% of a dish determines 90% of its impact. A squeeze of acid right at the end, a drizzle of olive oil, fresh herbs — I love that. Where to Find Chef Adrianne Well, if anyone wants to try your complete dishes at the restaurant or join any of your cooking classes on live streams or pick up your book, where can they go? How can they follow along with what you’re up to and what you’re doing in the world? You can follow me on socials at Chef Adrianne, and that’s the same handle for YouTube, for the livestream, for the channel, or you can pick up any of my cookbooks on Amazon or wherever books are sold. Amazing. Congratulations to everything. I can’t wait to swing to the restaurant next time I’m in Miami. Oh, thank you so much for having me. It was awesome, and congratulations on everything you’re doing. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe [https://fiverules.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Noah Galuten

Noah Galuten [https://www.instagram.com/galuten/?hl=en] has spent years cooking alongside some of the best chefs, pit masters, and grill masters in America, so when it came time to write Grill Time [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/781433/grill-time-by-noah-galuten/], he wanted to share everything he had learned. He joined the show to share his Five Rules for Better Grilling, covering everything from why gas grills deserve more respect to the flavor advantages of cooking with wood and charcoal. We also get into the surprising power of mayonnaise, why chasing perfect grill marks can be overrated, and the one tool that will instantly make you a more confident cook. Whether you’re feeding a crowd or just trying to get dinner on the table, these are practical rules you’ll actually use. Summer has officially arrived. The days are longer, the drinks are colder, and every meal suddenly feels like a good excuse to be outside. There’s something about cooking over fire that changes the pace of the day. Neighbors linger a little longer, friends show up a little earlier, and dinner becomes the event instead of the thing that happens before it. If you’ve been looking for a reason to dust off the grill, invite some people over, and make the most of the season, this conversation is the inspiration you need to get started. Photo by Kristin Teig Jacaranda’s recent opening in Los Angeles has had the culinary community abuzz with Daniel Patterson’s return to fine dining. Opened and owned with his wife, Sarah Lewitinn, this thirty-seat, tasting menu has been years in the making. Read my latest profile [https://www.finedininglovers.com/explore/articles/jacaranda-daniel-patterson-rebuilds-fine-dining-his-own-terms] for Fine Dining Lovers on them, their love story and their road to opening. Introduction Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m joined by Noah Galuten, whose new cookbook, Grill Time, Why You Should Be Grilling for Better, Healthier, Easier, and More Delicious Meals, is out now wherever books are sold, to share his five rules for better grilling. We talk about how there’s no shame in the gas grill game. With that being said, nothing tastes better than smoke in food and how one secret ingredient is the key to better grilling. Summertime is here and if you’re looking to get outside and to do some cooking, there is no better conversation for some inspiration and some rules to get your grill game going. So let’s get into the rules. Why Grilling Is Different Noah, it’s so good to see you. Congratulations. Your new book has been out for a little less than a week. Grill time. Thanks for stopping by and making time for the show. Thank you for having me, man. This first week has been so great. Summertime is here. It’s time for grilling. What do you love so much about this season and cooking this way? There’s so many things I love about grilling and the great thing about living in Los Angeles is you can grill 12 months out of the year. I know. I try to be nice to the people who don’t have the weather that we have. That’s true. Grilling is just the way that I actually find myself cooking for my family the most often. It is easier, cleaner, faster, often healthier than you would do it on the stove. There’s stuff that I would never do on a stove in a million years that I will do on a grill a hundred times out of a hundred. To cook a piece of chicken, to put on a salad, who’s pan searing? No one. It’s always grilled chicken at a restaurant. Throw it on a gas grill in the back, charcoal grill. You’ve got something instantly. A lot of people get intimidated by grilling. It’s usually due to one bad experience because they’ve only tried it a handful of times. How do people get back on the horse after having a grilling mistake? It’s like anything. The second time is going to be so much easier. The barrier to entry is basically having a grill. And once you have one, do it a couple times, get better at it. Writing Grill Time Once you find that inspiration of what to cook and how to cook it, it just makes you want to get outside even more. With so much of this type of cooking under your belt, how did you select the stories and recipes you wanted to share? When a band has their first album, they spend their entire life creating it and then your second album is two years later and you’re trying to come up with a whole lifetime of stuff. This was this lucky stroke of mine because my first cookbook was so much of my family cooking growing up, my mom’s food, the food that I make for my family at home. And then I have this whole other side of grilling that I’ve been doing forever and learning from amazing mentors like Kevin Bloodsoe for Bloodsoe’s Barbecue and with Ari Colander for Seafood Stuff, Jeremy Fox for Vegetables. I got to lean all that information into the way that I cook and grill at home. So it just spilled out of me. It came together so quickly. There was so much food that I cook all the time on the grill that I’ve never gotten to write about. Grilling cookbooks were just different from regular at-home cookbooks. Grilling is the type of cooking practice that you can always get better at. You can always refine your approach. Rule #1: There Is No Shame in the Gas Grill Game Now I’ve been around a lot of chefs who swear on nothing but aged pecan wood or cherry wood or some other sort of refined— Those people don’t cook for their kids on a weeknight is my theory on that. I love cooking with wood and charcoal. I have an entire outdoor cooking show on Tastemade called Barbecue Smokeout I make with Kevin and Bloodso. It is an amazing way to cook and I love it. But with that being said, a great part of my life is getting dinner on the table and being able to throw— The Gas Grill is an incredible— A Gas Grill, there is no shame on it. And there’s no reason that just because you can make something more delicious with Smoke or Charcoal that will take longer time that you shouldn’t just do the easier option when it’s easier. And having limited time on a weeknight or when you’re just trying to make a quick lunch, gas is great. Rule #2: Nothing Tastes Better Than Grilling Over Wood and Charcoal But when you do have the time, maybe it’s a weekend, maybe it’s a holiday, your rule number two talks about this type of grilling. Rule number two, nothing tastes better than grilling over wood and charcoal. So I kind of break this book down into two categories, Sure Weeknight Grilling and Weekend Project Grilling. Yes, I have cooked so many slow smoked pork ribs in the thousands over my career at Bloodso’s and I’m very good at it. I’ve had it a million times, but now my favorite rack of ribs in the world— I call it smoke grill. They do it in the book where essentially you take a classic grill. I love these PK grills. It’s a really old company that’s been doing it forever. You essentially push all the charcoal to one side of the grill, put wood chunks on top, almost like you’re doing a reverse sear like on a two inch thick ribeye. Instead of— You Get A Smoky Crispy Edged Rib That’s Done In Half The Time Of A Slow Smoke. You Can’t Fake The Flavor Of Smoke. Rule #3: Getting Char on One Side Is More Important Than Getting Char Everywhere Rule Number Three is getting char on one side is more important than getting char. So this comes out especially with things that are quicker cooking like a burger patty, asparagus, zucchini. If you try to get char all over the entire thing, especially if you’re on a gas grill that’s not super firepower, doesn’t have a ton of BTUs, get that char and that coffee. Rule #4: Mayonnaise Is the Secret to Better Grilling There is a chef trick that I was taught years ago about how to add some more moisture and flavor and to give yourself a little bit of grace when you’re cooking on the grill, which I’m so happy because it showed up as rule number four. Here are the haters. They know what’s coming. Guys, it’s mayonnaise. Yep. Mayonnaise is the secret to better grilling. And all you weirdo mayonnaise people out there, you guys are worse than cilantro people because theirs is a genetic condition. You guys just can’t stop talking about how you don’t like mayonnaise. It’s not about tasting mayonnaise. It’s not about eating mayonnaise. It’s about the chemical properties of a perfectly emulsified fat that you can use it for so many things on the grill. The big one to me, and I learned this from my buddy Ari Colander, who’s an incredible chef, painting the thinnest veil of mayonnaise on a piece of fish or a whole fish allows it to become virtually nonstick on the grill. It also allows you to get seasonings to adhere perfectly to it and it makes it brown better. I can cook perfect crispy skin salmon on the grill with just one flip, a little bit of mayonnaise, some salt and pepper and it’s amazing. Anything that you can do to add extra flavor and give yourself some breathing room on the grill is a rule well used. Rule #5: Use a Meat Thermometer Your fifth and final rule deals directly with understanding when to take your meat off the grill. What’s your rule number five? Use a meat thermometer. What are we talking about here, guys? It’s the easiest game changer. There’s this masculine thing of, no, I don’t need it, I know meat, I can touch the palm of my hand, no worries. You know the exact internal temp of a pre-marinated Trader Joe’s pork? And that’s fine. This is a sub-rule to this rule. Cooking it properly. Closing Noah, congratulations on everything. If they want to pick up a copy of Grill Time or come see you on your incredible book tour that has a lot of delicious food and great guests, where can they go to learn more? You can go to my website for all the tour dates. I have a 21-city tour with some of the best chefs and restaurants in the country. People like Chris Bianco, Frank Piniello, Ann Kim, Aaron Franklin, Kevin Blood. So it is a crazy, crazy, crazy lineup. I’m so blown away by the kindness of the people in our industry. Check that out on my website. Also, anywhere books are sold. The book already came out. So if you’re on Amazon, it’s probably 75% off the week after it came out. Good luck out on the road and I hope to be eating food and seeing you behind a grill very soon. Let’s go grill some meat and have some beers. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe [https://fiverules.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Matty Matheson

Matty Matheson has spent the last decade carving out his own lane by doing what most people are too scared to do: making things before anyone gives them permission. On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, Matty joins Darin to talk about creating Just a Dash, finding his on-camera voice before “content creator” was even a career path, and why the best ideas usually start with a couple of friends, a camera, and a willingness to see what happens. They discuss trusting your collaborators, investing in yourself before anyone else will, and how consistency matters more than virality. Matty shares his Five Rules for Making Your Own Show, including why you should only cook things you love or hate, why working with friends changes everything, and why originality still matters in a world built on algorithms and imitation. There’s something deeply inspiring about Matty’s journey because none of it feels manufactured. It feels earned. Watching someone continue to create for years, through rejection, uncertainty, changing platforms, and shifting industries, is a reminder that momentum is built through consistency, not shortcuts. The conversation is really about the value of showing up over and over again, trusting your instincts, and building with people you actually care about. There’s a specific kind of joy that comes from making things with friends, from laughing through the chaos, from figuring it out together in real time. Even when something fails, even when it gets messy, the act of creating is still better than standing still. Making something, anything, is how you find your voice. Photo by Sid Tangerine Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Introduction Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. It is always a good time when I get to sit down with today’s guest, Matty Matheson, whose new season of Just a Dash is out on Netflix right now, along with the fifth season of The Bear coming out on FX and Hulu on June 25th. He’s here today to share his five rules for making your own show. We chat about the importance of working with people you trust, that to get everyone to buy in with what you’re making, you need to... So let’s get into the rules. Getting Started in Video Matty, so good to see you. I love to hear the birds chirping and the sun streaming through in Canada. Thanks for making the time to sit down and chat with me. You’re very welcome. That’s our canary, Waffles, and Waffles is just having a beautiful day it seems. You are no stranger to TV. I’ve seen you cooking across different mediums for such a long time. Not every chef is drawn to that type of pursuit. What made you want to get involved in the first place? Well, great question. The first video I ever made was my cheeseburger video. We made that over 10 years ago now. My era, the beginning of that, when I was 26, 27, 28, if you were on TV, you were a massive star. There wasn’t any middle ground. There wasn’t any content. It wasn’t anything. Some producers at Vice hit me up to see if I wanted to do something. In Canada, we shot a cheeseburger video, and that’s what it was. It’s funny, I look back on that stuff. There’s no persona. There’s no yelling. There’s no anything. It’s just me being funny and talking in my regular voice. I was just drawn to it because they wanted to do something different. It wasn’t some big TV show. It wasn’t a competition show. It wasn’t some thing that was out there that was on some major network. That was what drew me to that, was just hanging out with people that I already hung out with, my friends that worked at Vice. It was still purer then. There was no anything. It wasn’t creating. We just made a cooking video, a how-to video. Finding an On-Camera Voice You had a chance to evolve before this new ecosystem of creators. What do you remember about learning that time and finding your on-camera persona before it became such a commodity to do content? I would do a video every two, three months. What a cadence compared to today. I did that and then I did my pancake video and then I did my get-you-laid lasagna video. It was just like a thing where we made it when we made it. I think I got paid 500 bucks a video at that time too, which was kind of nice. Seems about right. It was more money than I ever made in a two, three hour span of time. It was incredible to get that amount of money when I was that age. It was more money than I ever made. There was no references. Building Just a Dash We shot Just a Dash two years ago. It’s amazing. It took a long time to edit. Tort and his crew, we took a long time finding it. The way that we shoot Just a Dash is we shoot for 10 hours, 12 hours, and then we find everything in the edit. We’re always cooking one dish. There’s all these sub-stories and things and stuff. When we made the season, it wasn’t with Netflix. It wasn’t with anybody. It was still just self-funded with the Canadian Arts grant that we get. We wanted to make something that was a little bit... so this was us putting in a little bit more effort. We had six or seven more people on set. We had costume, we had set deck, a couple producers. I had a little relationship over with Netflix and they were kind of looking for something and I was kind of looking to see if they were down. It was a very easy thing. We showed it to them. They were very excited. It’s a no brainer. And it was funny. I even told them when we first started to meet, I was just like, I pitched you this show like six years ago. I guess they weren’t ready for it. Obviously because of The Bear I got a little more juice. Yeah, I got a little bit of Hollywood juice from that. We get to put something like Just a Dash out there and let that ripple out. I’m glad that you got that juice because the show is great and it’s allowed you to stay in this game for so long, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for making your own show. When I watch this season, there’s just such a levity, such a formed world with the people behind the camera and you in front of it. I just feel that you’re letting us into your home and into your life, which is a big part of your rule number one. Rule #1: Cook Something You Love or Hate Rule number one is cook something that you love or hate because then there’s no middle ground. So you need to have feelings. For the type of content that I make, either I love it or I’m trying to figure it out and I hate it. Then the plane starts crashing and then I have to land the plane every episode. That’s our snake eating its own tail thing that we’re always doing. We’re excited, we get smoked, and then we land the plane. Always cook something that you love or something that you don’t understand. By cooking something you don’t understand, by the end of it, you’ll probably understand it and enjoy it. Rule #2: Work With Friends Creating that space from a production point of view to allow you to cook something that might work or go off the rails is really determined by the people who you work with and the relationships you have, which makes up your rule number two. I love working with friends. Working with friends has given me an incredible life and has allowed us all to continuously work together. Having somebody like that that knows you and knows how to work you. On the first two seasons of Just a Dash we had no producers, no writers, no nothing. Whoever was there that day was there. It was just me, Camera B, Sound Guy, Tor, Michelle, myself. It is a thing of trusting your crew. Believing in your crew. Also having this thing where everyone is level. Everyone is a part of it. Everyone is adding to the cup. That’s the thing that’s the most important. Everyone is on the level. Everyone is a part of this. Everyone is equal. Everyone is doing their thing making this video. Maybe that’s just because I naturally want everyone to have fun and everyone to be hanging out. That’s why my videos just genuinely organically went to this. Oh yeah, what if we just turned the cameras around and it was just all my friends hanging out and we’re just making this video and I’m just the idiot in front of the camera, but the whole show is the 360 of five idiots hanging out about making a thing. Rule #3: Get Everyone Behind You Being able to lead a group of people, having the ability to take a stand and say, no, this is what we’re making, this is what you get, is a fundamental tenant of your rule number three. Rule number three is believing in yourself enough to get everyone behind you. Yeah, I’m always like just get me something to cook. Let’s not overthink it. Get me all the ingredients. If I don’t have all the ingredients that will make it better. But that comes with a lot of trust. You need that trust to be able to communicate how to cook at the same time as be funny, to be present or unpresent, but still keep the train rolling. The reason why I can be so funny or be so ridiculous at times is because the cooking, I’m not thinking about the cooking. I’m never really thinking about the cooking. You know it. I know how to make pasta. I know how to make a cream sauce. Cooking is very funny to me. As long as you understand the foundation, you can do multiple cuisines and multiple things and there’s only certain amount of things you can do. You can fry, you can roast, you can broil, you can boil, you can simmer. Also finding your path throughout the video is part of my journey where I’m like a lot of the times I have an idea what I’m cooking and then I’ll get a feeling or an excitement about something as I’m doing it. And then that can switch a lane really quickly for me. And then we just are going down that path. But for everyone else to be able to go down that path is that freedom. Oh, I’m going to make grilled chicken fajitas. Okay, and I start doing it. I’m like, yo, what if we made a fried chicken sandwich fajita? Hell yeah. Food isn’t different to the journey. It doesn’t really matter what I’m cooking. As I’m finding my happy place, truly, while I’m cooking this thing, I allow the happy place to get turned upside down and set on fire. And then everyone around me is watching and not helping, but that’s part of it. It is a thing knowing that that is what makes everything click, is us understanding our levels of where we’re going. Are we actually getting upset or are we just a little bit upset? I don’t think we’ve ever had to fully take a break or something like that where we go on these emotional voyages. Believing in yourself, knowing that you’re going to finish and finish strong, people will believe in you and that’s consistency. Rule #4: Invest in Yourself On the other side of believing in yourself creatively is the reality of production, what it takes to actually get something off the ground, which usually deals with finances. And sometimes it’s hard to get people to invest in you before you invest in yourself, which makes up your rule number four. Spend all of the money you have on yourself. Exactly. Invest in yourself. Yep. Very low to the bottom of the barrel where I have risked financial risk for my family multiple times to believe in myself and to believe in that the project we’re working on, it will just continue. I didn’t make Just a Dash to sell it at first. I made Just a Dash because I wanted to get Just a Dash. I made the first season of Just a Dash when everyone said no. I had left Vice. I went to LA. I had meetings at every frigging place thinking I had dead set on life. I had It’s Suppertime. I had Munchies. And I was just like, oh. Easy, new show, new me. Yeah, like I’m over here now. And everyone’s like, who the f**k are you? And I was like, oh, okay, cool. Got to the point where I was just like, I’ll pay for myself and start my own YouTube channel. That’s what every single person does. But back then it was like a different thing. I still don’t know how to make content on my phone. Like I meet all these Instagram chefs and people that are making content. I’ve done a couple of collabs and I’m like, you literally just shoot all... Then I’m going to f**k with myself, believe in my friends and believe in the people that I’ve made all these things with. I believe in them. I know that they can make good s**t. I know that I can make good s**t. And I know that people like it. I may not be this valued person to all these networks. The internet, which was my fanbase at that time, enjoyed it and fucked with Just a Dash hard. And as you believed in yourself and as you built out this world, you just continuously go. At the beginning, it was this incredible time of you and your friends making something, doing something, putting it out there. Consistency and Fans It’s all because of the fans. Every day I wake up and I’m so grateful for everybody and everything that’s happened to me. I have spent the last 10 years being very consistent with output on a lot of different fronts. I’ve given a lot of myself to a lot of videos and things all around the world. I’ve gotten that back, that reciprocal, and I think it is a beautiful thing. Being able to be in the game for 10 years, making all these videos and work with so many people... Rule #5: Be Yourself Your fifth and final rule reminds anyone who wants to make their own show to keep this point of view when you’re creating something for yourself. Rule number five, try to be yourself. You are a hundred percent original. Everyone now wants originality, authentic, whatever authentic means anymore. You are original. Don’t try to be me. Don’t try to be something. When I was making Dead Set On Life, I was like, I don’t want to watch Anthony Bourdain shows. Still to this day, I’ve only seen two episodes of anything Bourdain’s ever done. I’ve read all of his books multiple times. I love his books. Of course. But I was just like, if I’m going to be making this stuff, I want to put the blinders on. Now it’s even more difficult because everyone is in their own echo chamber. “Oh, I saw you do this recipe so I’m going to do the same recipe.” Being viral sucks so bad. It’s so whack because I’ve never really been viral. It’s just been this continuous... I’m not at home whipping up f*****g chorizo lasagnas, shrimp cocktails with a sauce from scratch. No, f**k that. Cocktail sauce from scratch is disgusting. I even talked about that on Just a Dash. It was like people that put lemon zest in cocktail sauce. It was like you guys are maniacal. Get out of here. What are you doing? It’s ketchup and horseradish. Maybe Tabasco. Stop it. Closing Matty, I really appreciate not just the show, but you showing people who actually want to get out there and still make something original and authentic how to do it. If people want to watch Just a Dash or see the other things that you’re working on, where can they go? How can they see what you’re up to? Just a Dash is on YouTube still, bi-weekly, new cooking something on YouTube. You can watch all three seasons of Just a Dash on Netflix. You can get my cookbooks wherever you can get cookbooks, I feel. Matty, so good to see you. Congrats on everything. I really do love this show. Hopefully we’ll run into each other somewhere in the world soon. Hey, I’ll see you when I see you buddy. It’s nice to see you right now. It really is. Get full access to Five Rules for the Good Life at fiverules.substack.com/subscribe [https://fiverules.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Mashama Bailey & Johno Morisano

There’s a certain type of person who dreams about opening a restaurant in Paris. Then there’s the type of person who actually does it. On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Mashama Bailey and Johno Morisano of The Grey and L’Arrêt to talk about what it really takes to open a restaurant in one of the most romanticized, bureaucratic, intimidating, and food-obsessed cities in the world. They share their Five Rules for Opening a Restaurant in Paris. We get into neighborhood politics, learning enough French to survive a conversation, battling condemned hood systems, and why your lawyer might become the most important person in your phone. It’s a conversation about hospitality, identity, stubbornness, and understanding exactly who you are before trying to introduce yourself to Paris. What I love about this conversation is how open they are about all of it. There’s no mythology here. No pretending the process was glamorous. They talk honestly about the stress, the delays, the absurdity of getting yelled at over ventilation systems, and the emotional weight of trying to earn trust in a city that takes food very seriously. But there’s also so much laughter throughout the conversation. The kind that only comes from people who survived something difficult together and can now look back at the chaos with perspective. You can hear how much they love restaurants, how much they respect Paris, and how even in the hardest moments they never lost sight of why they wanted to do this in the first place. Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Transcript Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, my guests join me from all corners of the world, Mashama Bailey and Johno Morisano, whose company, Gray Spaces, made its mark with The Grey in Savannah. Now, their new restaurant, L’Arrêt in Paris, has made a splash in the city. They join me today to chat about their Five Rules for Opening a Restaurant in Paris. They talk about the importance of practicing your conversational French, how to integrate yourself into the neighborhood, and why you should always have a good lawyer on standby. Even if you aren’t planning on opening your own little bistro in Paris, it’s a great conversation for anyone looking to start their own restaurant and understand the mindset you need to succeed. So let’s get into the rules. Opening Thoughts Thank you for crossing continents to be with me today. So great to have you on the show. Happy to be here. Thanks for waking up at the crack of dawn to do it. I got two young kids. I was up hours before we chatted. When the opportunity came to open L’Arrêt in Paris, what were your thoughts about the culinary connection between Savannah and the through lines of both cities? I thought in the beginning, you know what? We’re going to France. Pack our bags. Let’s go, let’s go, let’s do what we’re gonna do. Really trying to figure out what food the neighborhood wanted to do. I think we got caught up in the idea of it all, at least I did, and not really hunkered down and realized, oh wait, we’ve been doing this for 12 years and we should absolutely bring some food from Savannah to France. Also not realizing how nuanced our food is in Savannah and how it doesn’t always read as Southern. When you’re in Savannah, it feels very Southern. It eats very Southern. But when you’re in France, they need the hits. They need the things that overtly reflect Southern cuisine so they can understand what you’re doing because it’s such a melting pot here. Southern food and Black American food is so entrenched in African ingredients that it almost reads African before it reads Southern. That’s how we started off. And now we’re really embracing the fact that we’re coming from Savannah, we’re coming from the South, and we’re cooking grits and using cornmeal, lima beans, all these really delicious Southern ingredients. We’re braising and we’re frying and we’re putting it on a plate. And I think they’re really like, “Oh, okay, I understand what this restaurant is now.” But I think before, showing up as The Grey, it was a little confusing because we weren’t overtly Southern. Becoming Part of the Neighborhood For anyone who’s spent time in Paris and gotten to know Parisians, it really is all about neighborhoods and local communities. How did you integrate yourself with the people there beyond the food, showing that you really wanted to be their neighborhood spot? The Seventh Arrondissement is a place where I have been going with my wife for 30 years. I love that. We actually found L’Arrêt because it was just a spot that I frequented called Les Parisiens. I knew the owner of that place and I know the guy who runs a little cafe around the corner, and I got to know some of the people in the neighborhood. So when we did buy L’Arrêt, we did a lot of outreach to the neighbors. Here we are, these folks from New York City and Savannah coming into a very, very old and independent neighborhood in Paris. We would set up at our friend’s cafe around the corner. We would invite the people who lived in the neighborhood, who worked in the neighborhood, and we talked to them about the plans for the restaurant. We did a lot of outreach to the building, the folks who lived in the building we’re in. We invited everybody to come hear the planning and we had to go in front of the co-op, the HOA. We were successful in some of it and we weren’t very successful at all with the building, in that they still wanted to put us through the ringer to get approvals. Which we ultimately got. It just took two years and a lot of lawyers and a lot of money. Integrating yourself into the neighborhood, serving the community, is so great. On the flip side, getting to know an area of Paris as intimately as you are, you find your own spots. What are some of the local institutions that you’ve made yourself a regular at as a way to show that you want to be a part of the neighborhood? Rosarito Heap on Boulevard Saint-Germain. I can walk in there and they’re like, “Oh, madame.” Also, there’s an Indian restaurant right around the corner from L’Arrêt. It’s called Ravi’s and they’re great there. It’s super small, quiet, only lit by candlelight. The food is really solid and it’s a great place to let your hair down and have a good meal. La Flores is my local cafe on Rue du Bac, but I’ll go to Les Ambassades. Le Fontenoir is the little cafe on Rue du Bac. I’ve known Alex, who owns that place, for 20 years. Lao Tzu, Chinese restaurant, New York City style. He would kill me if I said that because I told him once that Wo Hop is one of my favorite places. He’s like, “This is not Wo Hop.” It’s funny, we were sitting in La Flores one night having a drink. I don’t even know if we were open yet. The waiter brought us over two glasses of wine and we said, “Oh no, we just came for one.” And he said, “No, the people behind you want to buy you a glass of wine.” They were just restaurant owners. She owns a restaurant right up the street and he owns a restaurant over by Tour Montparnasse. They just recognized us and bought us a drink. I’m now super friendly with both of them. Restaurants are communal in all cities and there’s camaraderie. You just gotta make the rounds and say hi to everybody. When you become a regular at a restaurant, that’s the best thing about it. They cater to each individual and how they want to experience that space. So few people have been able to come from outside of France and open a spot that has regulars and feels like part of the city, which is why I’m so excited to talk to you about your Five Rules for Opening a Restaurant in Paris. Rule #1: Practice Your French If you’ve never been, especially when you go to a city like Paris, the second you start attempting to speak the native language, they will switch to English for you immediately. But that doesn’t mean, look, if you’re there for a week that’s one thing. But if you’re setting up shop, it’s important to do as Parisians do, which is a big part of your Rule Number One: Practice your French. I have been trying to learn French since high school, so I think it just may not be in the cards for me. I will continue to try. I think I just have this huge intimidation factor when it comes to French. Being able to be cordial is the most important thing. You don’t have to speak it well. You just have to be able to say hello, introduce yourself, ask someone how they’re doing because that’s just table stakes in France. “Bonjour” is really like, hello, have a good day. Then it’s followed by “comment ça va?” And it could be a stranger on the street. You’re literally just saying, “Hello, how are you? I see you. How are you doing?” That’s the basis. Then everything else depends on how much they want to help you out. It depends on how fast they talk or how slow they’re willing to talk and bring you along. But they’re very interested in immersing you into their culture. Learning the language becomes easier. Rule #2: Have a Sense of Humor You have to have a sense of humor about it. For a lot of situations and in a lot of instances, it’s just not funny. But you have to be able to see the humanity in a situation. Culturally, everyone here is so different from Americans. So you do have to approach it with a sense of, I can’t take myself too seriously. The folks here, they work to live. They don’t live to work. That’s a sensibility that is nice to adapt, especially for people like Johno and myself where you kind of have to slow down a little bit, enjoy yourself a little bit, laugh at yourself a little bit in order to get through the things that are really tough, like not being able to open up a restaurant for a year and a half. It wasn’t very funny, but now we can find moments in those times that were humorous and we can let it go. We don’t have to drag it along with us. For me, this is a dream come true. Having a neighborhood spot in Paris is something I’ve dreamed about since I got in the restaurant business. You have to keep your head above the weeds and realize that even though it was f*****g hard, it’s great. Rule #3: Know Who You Are Having gone through all of the steps, no shortcuts, convincing the building, convincing the neighborhood, convincing the courts, you have to have a firm backbone, a clear idea of who you are and what you want to be, which is a core value of your Rule Number Three. It was a lot of pressure. We’re going to one of the greatest food cities in the world. How are we going to show up? You can’t forget the North Star. Southern food is on the move. We’re taking Southern food to places where Black Americans found refuge over the course of the 20th century, Black American creatives. We’re taking food that started where the Great Migration and all of the roots of food and culture came out of the South. We just decided that’s who we are. That’s what we’re doing. We’re bringing Southern food to a city that has provided refuge for people that wanted to express themselves for a really long time. And I think that’s when the epiphany happened. Rule #4: Understand the Infrastructure It’s one thing to have those epiphanies. It’s one thing to have the right attitude. But for anyone who’s ever opened up a restaurant, there is the physical nature of having a running kitchen. Knowing how to build one in America is different than any other country. And once you get into their rules, it’s a completely different ballgame, which makes up your Rule Number Four. Make sure that the hood system hasn’t been condemned by the city of Paris. The space has been a working restaurant, everybody says in the neighborhood, for 100 years. I don’t know if that’s true or not true, but the last time the restaurant was renovated was in 1970. The one thing we had to do when we bought the restaurant, the only cooking implement was a four-top range with a small oven in it. We gutted the restaurant. When we gutted the restaurant, we actually did a preservation project. For example, the comptoir, the cafe counter, our contractors removed the marble facade, which is so Brady Bunch 1970s that you could never replicate it again. We put it back on the new comptoir that is structurally sound. We did very similar things at The Grey. But the extraction pipe that vented the hood goes up through the core of the building to the roof. It’s like a pipe that’s maybe two inches in diameter. When the city came and inspected it, they were like, “Oh, you can never use that.” And we’re like, “Okay, what do you want us to do?” They said, “Just run a new modern hood under the full platform, the drop ceiling, and you can run it out the bike room here into the courtyard and go up the side of the building and vent the hood.” Well, the neighbors thought that was the worst idea. They literally picketed in the street. They literally tried to use that as a way to prevent us from reopening a restaurant. Every Parisian loves food and loves restaurants. They just don’t want them in their building. We got in a big battle over the hood system and we will never make that mistake again. Everybody in Paris has had a battle over the hood system, frankly. It’s a rite of passage. You don’t want to obviously overrun any of the neighbors, but at some point you go, you know what? We’ve checked all the boxes. We’ve done everything right. Rule #5: Have a Good Lawyer on Standby Your fifth and final rule deals with this one person you have on speed dial to make sure that you can open the doors. What’s your Rule Number Five? Have a good lawyer on standby. And for anyone who wants to open a restaurant in Paris, her name is Rebecca Cohen. Give her all the praise. I will send you her number. And Olivier, more of our corporate guy. The French love a battle, right? They love a battle. Do they respect you more if you beat them in battle? Duh. Honestly, that’s a really good question. For the most part, yes. But Madame Cotina, who I love in the building, I’m very kind to her. She hates me with a passion post-battle. For the most part, you earn respect, but you could just as easily be dead to them and they not have a problem. I like that binary option. I’m going to eat at your restaurant every day or you’re dead to me. Closing If people want to stop by L’Arrêt or if they’re in Savannah and want to go by The Grey, or just see what you two are up to, where you are in the world, what’s the best place for them to check you two out? Websites for both restaurants. 36 Rue de l’Université in Paris and downtown Savannah, Georgia. Next time I’m in either city, I’m going to swing in. Congratulations to you both. Good luck with the next six months of operation. I can’t wait to see what you continue to build. Thank you. Thank you so much. We really appreciate you taking the time for us. Really great, thanks Darin. 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